Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

File talk:Abe Papakhian - Ecthelion and Gothmog (colour).jpg

2008-10-23T00:47:52Z

Ælfwine:

This seems to be incorrectly named, it is the same picture as "Ecthelion and Gothmog" but with color. Also (correct me if I'm wrong) I thought that Fingolfin and Gothmog never actually fought each other. [[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 00:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

File talk:Abe Papakhian - Ecthelion and Gothmog (colour).jpg

2008-10-23T00:47:28Z

Ælfwine: New page: This seems to be incorrectly named, it is the same picture as "Ecthelion and Gothmog" but with color. Also (correct me if I'm wrong) I thought that Fingolfin and Gothmog never actually fou...

User:Ælfwine

2008-10-17T01:15:33Z

Ælfwine:

My collection:

<poem>
Books:
The Silmarillion
The Lord of the Rings
The Hobbit
The Children of Hurin
The Book of Lost Tales 1
The Book of Lost Tales 2
The Lays of Beleriand
The Shaping of Middle-Earth
The Lost Road
The Treason of Isengard
Morgoth's Ring
The War of the Jewels
The Peoples of Middle-Earth
Unfinished Tales
The Tolkien Reader
The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
Smith of Wotton Major & Farmer Giles of Ham
Roverandom
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight

Movies:
Peter Jackson's "The Fellowship of the Ring" extended edition
Peter Jackson's "The Two Towers" extended edition
Peter Jackson's "The Return of the King" extended edition

My Wishlist:
The Return of the Shadow
The War of the Ring
Sauron Defeated (aka The End of the Third Age)
</poem>

<div style="float:left;border:solid #CC9000 1px;margin:1px">
{| cellspacing="0" style="width:238px;background:#EFC35B"
| style="width:45px;height:45px;background:#CC9000;text-align:center;font-size:14pt" | '''lore-3'''
| style="font-size:8pt;padding:4pt;line-height:1.25em" | This user has an advanced understanding of '''[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s works'''.
|}</div>
<noinclude>[[Category:Userbox templates|lore-3]]</noinclude>
<includeonly>[[Category:User lore-3|{{PAGENAME}}]]</includeonly>
|<div style="float: left; border: solid #003F00 1px; margin: 1px">
{| cellspacing="0" style="width: 238px; color: black; background: #005F00"
| style="width: 45px; height: 75px; background: #003F00; text-align: center; font-size: 14pt"| '''Elf'''
| style="font-size: 8pt; padding: 4pt; line-height: 1.25em;color:white" | This user prefers [[Elves]] over any other race.
<includeonly>
[[Category:Users who support Elves|{{PAGENAME}}]]
</includeonly>
|}</div>

User:Ælfwine

2008-10-17T01:01:51Z

Ælfwine: My collection

My collection:

Books:
The Silmarillion
The Lord of the Rings
The Hobbit
The Children of Hurin
The Book of Lost Tales 1
The Book of Lost Tales 2
The Lays of Beleriand
The Shaping of Middle-Earth
The Lost Road
The Treason of Isengard
Morgoth's Ring
The War of the Jewels
The Peoples of Middle-Earth
Unfinished Tales
The Tolkien Reader
The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
Smith of Wotton Major & Farmer Giles of Ham
Roverandom
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight

Movies:
Peter Jackson's "The Fellowship of the Ring" extended edition
Peter Jackson's "The Two Towers" extended edition
Peter Jackson's "The Return of the King" extended edition

My Wishlist:
The Return of the Shadow
The War of the Ring
Sauron Defeated (aka The End of the Third Age)

<div style="float:left;border:solid #CC9000 1px;margin:1px">
{| cellspacing="0" style="width:238px;background:#EFC35B"
| style="width:45px;height:45px;background:#CC9000;text-align:center;font-size:14pt" | '''lore-3'''
| style="font-size:8pt;padding:4pt;line-height:1.25em" | This user has an advanced understanding of '''[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s works'''.
|}</div>
<noinclude>[[Category:Userbox templates|lore-3]]</noinclude>
<includeonly>[[Category:User lore-3|{{PAGENAME}}]]</includeonly>
|<div style="float: left; border: solid #003F00 1px; margin: 1px">
{| cellspacing="0" style="width: 238px; color: black; background: #005F00"
| style="width: 45px; height: 75px; background: #003F00; text-align: center; font-size: 14pt"| '''Elf'''
| style="font-size: 8pt; padding: 4pt; line-height: 1.25em;color:white" | This user prefers [[Elves]] over any other race.
<includeonly>
[[Category:Users who support Elves|{{PAGENAME}}]]
</includeonly>
|}</div>

Lár

2008-10-11T23:17:12Z

Ælfwine:

The '''Lár''', was a [[Númenor|Númenórean]] linear measure roughly equivalent to, and translated in the text as, a league. Whereas our league is 5280 yards (4828 metres), the ''Lár'' is 5277 yards, 2 feet and 4 inches (4825 metres), or 5000 ''[[Ranga]]r''.

The name ''Lár'' means "pause", and [[Gondor]]ian military units usually paused every 5000 ''rangar''. The [[Sindarin]] name was ''Daur''

[[Category:Quenya words]]

User talk:Mith/2011

2008-10-11T01:03:40Z

Ælfwine: /* Tom Bombadil */

User talk:Mith/2011

2008-10-11T00:58:32Z

Ælfwine: /* Tom Bombadil */ new section

Forums:Sites to help with elvish names or phrases?

2008-10-05T17:23:38Z

Ælfwine:

<div style="background: #eee; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 5px">'''[[Main Page|Tolkien Gateway]] > [[Forum:Council|Council]] > {{PAGENAME}}'''</div> [[Category:Council]]



Hey. I need sites on how to get names and phrases from the elvish language, so i can print them and use them in my novel. if i dont reply on here immediately, im on this website below ALOT! [http://www.thecircle.forumotion.com (site)] {{unsigned|Lukeamis}}

:Hi there, Luke. Though this sort of thing is not what the forum is for (yeah, we need better guidelines), I'd love to guide you to a site where I myself "work": [http://realelvish.net/ Meris Essi ar Quenteli]. I'm however not sure what the copyright situation is for publishing in printed (and for-profit) works. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:49, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

::Another good site is [http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ Ardalambion], created by Helge K. Fauskanger, a great Tolkien linguist. [[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:23, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Forums:Sites to help with elvish names or phrases?

2008-10-05T17:22:45Z

Ælfwine:

<div style="background: #eee; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 5px">'''[[Main Page|Tolkien Gateway]] > [[Forum:Council|Council]] > {{PAGENAME}}'''</div> [[Category:Council]]



Hey. I need sites on how to get names and phrases from the elvish language, so i can print them and use them in my novel. if i dont reply on here immediately, im on this website below ALOT! [http://www.thecircle.forumotion.com (site)] {{unsigned|Lukeamis}}

:Hi there, Luke. Though this sort of thing is not what the forum is for (yeah, we need better guidelines), I'd love to guide you to a site where I myself "work": [http://realelvish.net/ Meris Essi ar Quenteli]. I'm however not sure what the copyright situation is for publishing in printed (and for-profit) works. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:49, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

::Another good site is [http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/], created by Helge K. Fauskanger, a great Tolkien linguist. [[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The Hobbit (1968 radio series)

2008-10-05T13:28:01Z

Ælfwine: typo

{{cleanup}}
'''''The Hobbit''''' is a [[1968]] BBC Radio adaptation of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s [[The Hobbit]].

The series was adapted by [[Michael Kilgariff]] and produced by [[John Powell]] in eight half-hour mono episodes for BBC Radio 4.

==Story==
The radio series follows the [[The Hobbit#synopsis|plot]] of the original novel (revised [[1951]] version) very closely, except for the addition of The Tale Bearer, a narrator whose account of the story is often interrupted and embellished by the protagonist [[Bilbo Baggins]] in the role of secondary narrator.

Bilbo, a stay-at-home [[hobbit]], is approached by the [[wizard]] [[Gandalf]] to undertake a dangerous adventure, and despite his initial reluctance he soon finds himself accompanying [[Thorin Oakenshield]] and his party of [[dwarves]] on a long and difficult quest to recover the dwarves' treasure from [[Smaug]] the [[Dragons|dragon]], encountering [[trolls]], [[goblins]], [[Gollum]] (acquiring a [[One Ring|magic ring]] near Gollum's cave), [[wargs]], [[eagles]], giant [[spiders]], [[elves]] and [[men]] along the way. In the process Bilbo is transformed from a clumsy, timid and rather comic figure into a dignified and occasionally heroic everyman.

==Production==
The show's production was complicated by the inclusion of multiple sound effects (often inserted live while recording the actors' performances), songs from the novel, and special sounds and electronic voice treatments created by the BBC Radiophonic Workshop. All of the trolls, elves, goblins, wargs and eagles have treated voices, as does Gandalf when imitating the trolls.

==Influences from ''The Lord of the Rings''==
Although the script is closely based on the original novel, Kilgariff incorporates a few names and phrases from ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' that did not originally appear in ''The Hobbit''.
*In an early scene at [[Bag End]], Gandalf originally tells Bilbo, "Great elephants, you're not at all yourself today". In the radio version this is changed to "Great [[oliphaunts]]", the form used in the Lord of the Rings.
*At the beginning of the [[Battle of Five Armies]] Gandalf says, "Upon victory depends not just the treasure, nor only our lives, but the whole future and well-being of [[Middle-earth]]". The name Middle-earth is not used at all in the original novel.
*During the battle the [[Thranduil|Elvenking]] uses his name, Thranduil, as a battle-cry.
*In the same battle Thorin uses the dwarves' battle-cry, "[[Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!]]"

==Wiping and recovery==
The original master tapes for the series seem to have been wiped sometime during the 1970s. The reason is not clear, although it was rumoured to be due to a dispute with the Tolkien estate (if so, the subsequent recovery and commercial issue of the series proves that the dispute was resolved).

The BBC eventually recovered the series from a domestic off-air FM recording, apparently comprising 90- and 60-minute compilations edited together from the original episodes. The sound quality of these recordings is clear and legible, though it is noticeably inferior to a studio-quality recording and exhibits prominent tape hiss.

For broadcast and home audio purposes the BBC re-edited these compilations back into half-hour episodes, adding a brief snatch of the theme tune at the beginning and end of each. The title ''The Hobbit'' is spoken only at the beginning of the first episode and there are no opening or closing credits. It is quite likely that the credits were never included in the episodes themselves, but would originally have been read by a continuity announcer at the end of each episode.

==Audio release and reference==
There have been several home audio releases of the series on cassette and CD. The [[1997]] CD release includes a bonus CD containing 9 minutes and 45 seconds of additional music in stereo, which evidently ''was'' taken from an unwiped master tape. The 1997 set also contains a "Personal Memoir" by series producer John Powell, from which some of the information in this article is derived.

On [[July 29]], [[2008]], an edition was published by BBC AudioBooks America; it includes interviews with [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]<sup>[http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/835-Tolkien_Audio_Books_2008.php]</sup>.

==Cast and credits==
{| class="wikitable"
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"
! Role !! Actor
|-
| The Tale Bearer || [[Anthony Jackson]]
|-
| [[Bilbo Baggins]] || [[Paul Daneman]]
|-
| [[Gandalf]] || [[Heron Carvic]]
|-
| [[Gollum]] || [[Wolfe Morris]]
|-
| [[Thorin Oakenshield]] || [[John Justin]]
|-
| [[Elrond]] || [[John Pullen]]
|-
| [[Thranduil|The Elvenking]] || [[Leonard Fenton]]
|-
| [[Beorn]] || [[Denys Hawthorne]]
|-
| [[Bard|Bard the Bowman]] || [[Peter Williams]]
|-
| [[Balin]] || [[Peter Pratt]]
|-
| [[Smaug]] || [[Francis de Wolff]]
|}

The music is composed by [[David Cain]] and performed by David Munrow with The Early Music Consort.

[[Category:Radio adaptations]]
[[de:Der Hobbit (Hörspiele)]]

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/7 September 2008

2008-09-06T14:39:55Z

Ælfwine:

Please put any ideas for the agenda and any general discussion here. Remember you must sign your name below if you are going to attend.

==Attendees==
#--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
#--[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:51, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
#--{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
#--[[User:Mith|Mith]] 12:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
#--{{User:Theoden1/sig}} 13:04, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
#--[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 14:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

==Ideas for Agenda==
* Naming conventions of film articles. (e.g. [[Peter Jackson's The Fellowship of the Ring]] -> [[The Fellowship of the Ring (2001 film)]])
* Carrying over un-discussed items from [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/31 August 2008|last week's agenda]] (standards for songs and poems; and featured article, improvement drive and projects).
* Discussion on how far and how much of the information and related facts from [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings|the films]] we should include on TG.
* As referencing is increasingly becoming an issue of importance, perhaps we need a style guide on referencing (e.g. should we put author's names, put in author names except for book written by Tolkien, page numbers, chapter titles, ISBNs, what order these should go in, etc. etc.).

==Discussion==

Morgoth

2008-08-17T23:51:00Z

Ælfwine:

{{evil infobox
| image=[[Image:Angel Falto - Morgoth.jpg|250px]]
| name=Morgoth
| othernames=See [[Morgoth#Names|names]]
| created=Before the [[Music of the Ainur]]
| years=c. [[Years of the Lamps 1|Y.L. 1]]-[[Years of the Lamps 1500|Y.L. 1500]], c. [[Years of the Lamps 3400|Y.L. 3400]]-[[Years of the Trees 1100|Y.T. 1100]], c. [[Years of the Trees 1500|Y.T. 1500]]-[[First Age 590|F.A. 590]]
| age=
| destroyed=Thrust into the [[Void]] [[First Age 590|F.A. 590]]
| realm=[[Utumno]], [[Angband]]
| gender=Male
| race=[[Ainur]]
| appearance=As [[Dark Lord]], assumed tall, dark, terrible form
| accomplishments=Disrupted the [[Music of the Ainur|Music]], [[Arda Marred|corrupted]] [[Arda]], created [[Orcs]], destroyed the [[Two Trees]], stole the [[Silmarils]], took over [[Beleriand]]
|}}
'''Morgoth''', also known as '''[[Melkor]]''', was the greatest of the [[Ainur]]. He fell from glory when he disrupted the [[Music of the Ainur]] and defied the will of [[Eru Ilúvatar]]. Morgoth corrupted many of the Ainur to his allegiance, fought the [[Valar]], and corrupted [[Arda]]. His theft of the [[Silmarils]] and [[Wars of Beleriand|wars]] against [[Elves]] and [[Men]] encompassed much of the history of the [[First Age]]. Eventually, Morgoth was bound in chains by the Valar and thrown into the [[Void]], leaving the permanent damage his evils had done, and his servant [[Sauron]], to trouble the world. One day, according to [[Final Battle|prophecy]], Morgoth will rise again and be destroyed in the [[Dagor Dagorath]] by [[Túrin Turambar]].

==History==
The first and most powerful of the [[Ainur]] that [[Ilúvatar]] created was a spirit known as Melkor. Because he wandered through the [[Void]] in an attempt to find and use the [[Flame Imperishable]], the source of [[Ilúvatar]]'s creative activity, Melkor developed ideas unlike those of the other Ainur. His feelings grew rebellious against his creator, for he wished to create sentient beings to inhabit the Void and was dissatisfied by the fact that Ilúvatar had not done so. However, Melkor could not find the Flame, for it was not in the Void, but with Ilúvatar.

===The Music of the Ainur===
[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Melkor Weaves Opposing Music.jpg|thumb|left|200px|''Melkor weaves Opposing Music'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]
When the Ainur [[Music of the Ainur|made music]], Melkor weaved his strange thoughts into his song. His song clashed against the Theme of Ilúvatar, disturbing the Ainur around him and causing some of them to attune their music to his. For a while the Theme of Ilúvatar and the discords of Melkor warred against one another. But Eru smiled, and sent forth a new theme. Most of the Ainur joined with it, but Melkor rebelliously opposed it even more violently. At last many of the Ainur stopped singing in dismay, and Melkor’s discords gained dominance. Eru sent out a third Theme against Melkor, sweeter and more beautiful than the others, and unquenchable. But though Melkor could not defeat it, still he opposed it. At last Eru halted the music completely with a single chord.

Eru then publicly rebuked Melkor, saying that all music found its source in himself, and thus Melkor could not create his own song or truly alter the Themes of Ilúvatar. Thus, though Melkor opposed Eru to his last breath, he only furthered the cause of Ilúvatar in new and wondrous ways. Melkor was shamed and angered by this judgment, but hid his feelings. When Eru showed the Ainur the product of their music, [[Eä]], Melkor was one of those who begged to enter [[Arda]], pretending to be willing to cultivate it and guide it for Ilúvatar’s glory. He actually wished to dominate Arda and its creatures, especially the [[Children of Ilúvatar]]. Nonetheless, he was allowed to enter Eä and come to Arda with the other [[Valar]]. Once there, Melkor declared to his colleagues that he was the master of Arda henceforth. [[Manwë]], his brother, did not understand his evil, but fearing that Melkor might try and disrupt their labors in Arda, called forth many more Ainur to protect them. Melkor departed to the remote regions of Eä, leaving the world in peace for a while.

===Wars of the Valar===
But Melkor took form, great and terrible, and attacked the Valar’s work in preparing the Earth. There was war, and though Melkor disrupted their work and destroyed much, a great spirit named [[Tulkas]] came to Arda from other regions of Eä to combat him. After Tulkas drove Melkor away, the Valar managed to complete Arda, and the world was established.

The Valar dwelt in a land called [[Almaren]], and raised up [[two lamps]] to light the young earth: [[Illuin]] and [[Ormal]]. Melkor, meanwhile, had attracted the attention and even in a few cases admiration from the [[Maiar]], the lesser spirits of [[Arda]]. Melkor had many spies among them, and from them learned all that the Valar did, and bided his time. As the Valar sat down to a feast at the completion of their labors, Melkor gathered together those loyal to him, and looking down on the beautiful Arda was filled with hatred. Tulkas was wedded to [[Nessa]] at that feast, and she danced before the Valar. Tulkas fell asleep, and that is when Melkor struck.

Melkor with his host passed over the [[Walls of Night]] and returned to Arda once more. Without the watchfulness of Tulkas, the Valar were unaware of his coming, and he began to delve in the depths of the earth, making a fortress called [[Utumno]] beneath the mountains in the dimness of Illuin. The [[Spring of Arda]] became blighted as evil flowed out of the fortress. Death and illness took the green things of Arda, and animals fought and killed one another, while flies brooded in massive numbers. The Valar knew then that Melkor was at work, and sought his hiding place.

But Melkor struck the first blow. He destroyed the Two Lamps, and caused the world to be filled with flowing fire and surging water. The symmetry of Arda was broken. And in the darkness and confusion Melkor escaped, returning to Utumno. Though together the Valar were stronger than Melkor, they could not punish him at that time, for they needed their strength to keep the world from collapsing into ruin. The Spring of Arda had ended in turmoil.

===Dominance of Middle-earth===
With Almaren destroyed, the Valar departed to a new continent across the [[Belegaer|sea]], [[Aman]], and built [[Valinor]]. They also established new sources of light, the [[Two Trees]], to light the world. Melkor, meanwhile, wandered across the face of [[Middle-earth]], in various guises, but armed with cold and fire. Some of the Valar were unwilling to forsake Middle-earth, however; [[Ulmo]] and [[Yavanna]], particularly. Also [[Oromë]] would ride in Middle-earth, killing the terrors of Melkor, who began to fear that the Valar might rise up against him in wrath.

Melkor brooded in the north, breeding great monsters, attended by his Maiar-servants later known as [[Balrogs]]. He also created another fortress and armory called [[Angband]], in the northwest of Middle Earth, to resist any Valarin attacks. He placed his greatest servant, [[Sauron]], in control of that stronghold. Melkor, by wandering about, also learned of the awakening of the first of the [[Children of Ilúvatar]], the [[Elves]]. He instilled fear in them, and slew or captured many of them. Some of those he captured, it is believed, may have been transformed into [[Orcs]] by torture and breeding.

===Time in Valinor===
The Valar were not long, however, in discovering the Elves. Fearing that they would be destroyed or corrupted by Melkor, Manwë decided that Ilúvatar wished them to recover Middle-earth at all costs. They laid [[Siege of Utumno|siege to Utumno]], and eventually destroyed it after a great battle during which the face of Middle-earth was transformed. Melkor was captured and chained with the chain [[Angainor]], but Sauron escaped. Melkor was imprisoned in the halls of [[Mandos]], and remained there for three ages, plotting revenge.

At the end of his time, Melkor was presented to his brother Manwë. Melkor, swallowing his pride with thoughts of vengeance, prostrated himself before the throne of Manwë, begging for pardon. Manwë granted him thus, though [[Ulmo]] and [[Tulkas]] were displeased with this judgement. Yet the Valar would not let him leave their sight, and he stayed in [[Valmar]]. Before long, he began to exert his corrupting influence on the Elves, especially the [[Noldor]]. For the [[Vanyar]] did not trust him, and the [[Teleri]] he thought too weak for his designs, but the Noldor were curious, and eager to learn what he could teach them.

===Revenge against the Valar===
[[Image:John Howe - Melkor and Ungoliant before the Two Trees.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Melkor and Ungoliant before the Two Trees'' by [[John Howe]]]]
In time Melkor found his greatest adversary and yet greatest tool in the form of [[Fëanor]], the eldest son of [[Finwë]], [[High King of the Noldor]]. Fëanor was the creator of the [[Silmarils]], which Melkor lusted after. As Melkor subtly spread lies and half-truths about the Valar and the Coming of [[Men]] in the form of rumors, Fëanor was greatly influenced, though he hated Melkor himself and had no idea that he was their source. His new ideas of wide lands and realms to rule touched the heart of Fëanor, and the hearts of many other Noldor. They began to murmur against the Valar, and the peace of Valinor was disturbed. Fëanor soon stirred up trouble, and while on trial before the Valar it was revealed that Melkor was at the bottom of the murmurings and troubles. Tulkas left straightaway to deal with him, but found Melkor gone. He had escaped.

Melkor was not seen for a while, but then appeared at [[Formenos]] to Fëanor, tempting him with words of friendship, and an offer of vengeance against the Valar whom Fëanor perceived had wronged him. Fëanor wavered, but Melkor pressed his advantage too much. He touched a chord about the Silmarils, and Fëanor, seeing his designs and lust for the jewels, cursed and rejected him. Melkor departed in anger, and went south past the mountain of [[Hyarmentir]], to the shadowed valley of [[Avathar]] where there dwelt [[Ungoliant]], a mysterious dark spirit in spider-form once his servant, but who had disowned him after his failure. After some time he convinced her to dismiss her fears with the offer of rich rewards, and she wove a cloak of shadow about them both.

Then Melkor and Ungoliant attacked while there was festival in [[Valmar]]. Melkor drained the [[Two Trees]] with his lance, and Ungoliant drank the blood. Then she drank dry the [[Wells of Varda]], and the two fled north to [[Formenos]], leaving the land once more in darkness and confusion. At Formenos Melkor slew [[Finwë]] and ravished the treasury of Fëanor, including the [[Silmarils]]. Then he passed over the icy [[Helcaraxë]], entering once more into [[Middle-earth]]. He was soon back in [[Angband]]. He had struck swiftly and surely. But Fëanor cursed him, naming him [[Morgoth]], and by that name he was known ever after to the Eldar.

===Return to Beleriand===
Once in safety, Ungoliant turned on her partner, demanding the jewels of Fëanor. The spider had grown in size and strength, and Morgoth feared her suddenly. He reluctantly parted with each of the beautiful gems, and Ungoliant devoured them. But Morgoth refused to give up the Silmarils, though she tortured him. His screams went out to [[Gothmog (Lord of Balrogs)|Gothmog]] and the [[balrogs]], and they rescued him from her clutches, driving Ungoliant away with their whips. So Morgoth returned to Angband.

===Wars of Beleriand===
Morgoth rebuilt the fortress there, and learned of the Elves who had remained in Middle-earth. [[Elu Thingol]] and the [[Sindar]] dwelt in the woodland kingdom of [[Doriath]], while [[Círdan]] and the [[Teleri]] lived at the [[Falas]] and [[Denethor of the Nandor|Denethor]] and the [[Nandor]] camped in [[Ossiriand]]. Morgoth made war on Thingol, surrounding Doriath and cutting Thingol off from Círdan. But Thingol was able to contact Denethor for help, and the Nandor joined with the Sindar to fight the [[Orcs]] between [[Aros]] and [[Gelion]]. Caught between the two armies, the Orcs of Morgoth were utterly defeated in the [[First Battle]]. Fleeing north they were intercepted and further demolished by the [[Naugrim]]. The Orcs attacking Círdan were more successful – pushing the Teleri to the very edge of the sea.

====Dagor-nuin-Giliath====
Morgoth was confronted by further challenges when Fëanor landed in Middle-earth. They set up at [[Mithrim]], but Morgoth [[Dagor-nuin-Giliath|attacked them]] quickly, hoping to dislodge them before they settled in too much and became a threat. But the Elves were just come out of [[Aman]], and they had the light of that country in their eyes. The Orcs dreaded them, and were swept before them like chaff before wind. Fëanor pursued them even nigh to the [[Thangorodrim]] and the gates of [[Angband]], but Morgoth sent out Gothmog and his balrogs. Fëanor was killed, but the balrogs were driven back. The Falas were freed, and though Morgoth had practically lost [[Beleriand]] outside of the [[Ered Engrin]], he was comforted in the fact that Fëanor was dead.

====Dagor Aglareb====
Yet [[Fingolfin]] came next, with his sons and the sons of [[Finarfin]]. They marched even to the gates of Angband, and yet could not go farther. As the Elves began to build (or rebuild) their kingdoms in Middle-earth, Morgoth waited sixty years before he struck again. It was the [[Dagor Aglareb]], the “Glorious Battle”, called such because it was a great victory for the Elves. Fingolfin and [[Maedhros]], eldest son of Fëanor, combined their strength and repelled Morgoth. They then set up the [[Siege of Angband]], which was designed to keep Morgoth holed up in his fortress.

====Dagor Bragollach and Fingolfin====
[[Image:John Howe - Morgoth vs. Fingolfin.png|thumb|right|300px|''Morgoth vs. Fingolfin'' by [[John Howe]]]]Though Morgoth was not as helpless as he appeared, he remained dormant and hidden until [[First Age 455|455]]. Then he surged forth suddenly, taking the slackened besiegers by surprise. Flames covered the formerly green [[Ard-galen]] (causing the battle to be known as the [[Dagor Bragollach]]), and several Noldor-lords fell in the succeeding combat. Much of Beleriand was overrun and [[Dorthonion]] was taken, as were northern [[Sirion]] and [[Maglor's Gap]]. In a single stroke Morgoth had broken the Siege of Angband, but the victory was not as complete as he would have preferred. [[Himring]] and [[Hithlum]] had held against him. King [[Fingolfin]] was dismayed and enraged by the defeat, and went to Angband. There he challenged Morgoth to single combat. Morgoth dared not refuse, for fear of showing himself a coward in front of his servants. With [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]], the Hammer of the Underworld, he fought Fingolfin long. The Elf-lord gave him seven wounds, but at last was struck down. As Morgoth placed his foot on Fingolfin to crush him, Fingolfin struck one last time, and Morgoth’s blood filled the pools made by his hammer. Morgoth could not desecrate the body, for [[Thorondor]] flew into his face and escaped with the body.

====The Quest for the Silmaril====
For some time after that the world lay in watchful discomfort. The southern part of [[Beleriand]] was, for the most part, free from Morgoth’s direct wrath. There arose two in [[Doriath]], [[Beren Erchamion|Beren]] of [[House of Bëor|Bëor’s House]] and [[Lúthien Tinúviel]], Thingol’s daughter. These two lovers embarked on the [[Quest for the Silmaril]], in the process removing [[Sauron]] from [[Tol-in-Gaurhoth]] and entering Angband in disguise. Morgoth lusted after Lúthien when she stood exposed in his presence, but she danced for him and lured him to sleep with her magic robes. One of the Silmarils was stolen from his crown, and Morgoth bore only two until the [[War of Wrath]].

====Nirnaeth Arnoediad====
Some time after, in [[First Age 471|471]], [[Maedhros]] made a great [[Union of Maedhros|alliance]] with the [[Naugrim]], [[Edain]], and other [[Noldor]]. They marched to challenge Morgoth, clearing Beleriand of his scattered forces. But Morgoth through his spies anticipated their actions, and met them with his allies the [[Easterlings]] in a huge battle in which he prevailed, and many princes and rulers of Men, Elves, and Dwarves fell. Thus the battle was named ''[[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]'', “Battle of Unnumbered Tears”. Morgoth’s victory was almost complete, as he razed [[Hithlum]], the [[Falas]], the [[March of Maedhros]], as well as [[Nargothrond]] in [[First Age 495|495]]. But [[Turgon the Wise|Turgon]], King of [[Gondolin]], escaped by the valiant actions of the [[House of Hador]], the last of the [[Edain]] in the north. The survivors had all gone down to the [[Isle of Balar]] and the [[Mouths of the Sirion]].

===The Curse of Morgoth===
[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Morgoth Punishes Húrin.jpg|thumb|left|200px|''Morgoth Punishes [[Húrin]]'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]
Morgoth took [[Húrin]], who had been captured during the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and set him in the high places of Thangorodrim, to watch his family, whom Morgoth cursed. Upon the death of [[Túrin Turambar]] and [[Nienor]], Húrin’s children, Morgoth released Húrin to further his cause.

===The Fall of Gondolin===
Some time later, by the aid of [[Maeglin]], a traitor-elf, Morgoth discovered and laid siege to [[Gondolin]]. [[Turgon the Wise|Turgon]] King, the last male heir of Fingolfin’s house, was killed in the sack. Morgoth’s victory in the north was now complete, though he had lost [[Gothmog (Lord of Balrogs)|Gothmog]] his captain and many other leaders in the battle. Also, a small remnant including [[Tuor]] and [[Idril]] escaped the rape of the city, bearing their son [[Eärendil the Mariner|Eärendil]].

===The War of Wrath===
This was to be Morgoth’s doom, for some years later, Eärendil sailed to [[Valinor]] seeking the pardon of the [[Valar]]. This he earned, and the Valar advanced across [[Belegaer]] with a mighty host. Morgoth loosed all his demons and defenses against them, but could not stop their might. His dragons fell to the [[Eagles]], and [[Ancalagon]] was brought down by Eärendil himself from his ship, [[Vingilot]]. Morgoth was seized in his fortress Angband, the Silmarils were removed from his crown, and he was bound once more. This time, however, he was ejected from Arda and cast into the [[Void]]. But though he had been vanquished, Arda was forever marred, and there was one still at large to carry on his evil legacy, if to a lesser degree: his greatest servant, the fallen Maia [[Sauron]].

==The Future==
Morgoth remains in the Void, unable to return to Arda as long as the Valar maintain their power over it. Nevertheless, according to the [[Second Prophecy of Mandos]], Morgoth will come back and attack Arda. He will fight a great battle, called the [[Dagor Dagorath]], against the Valar and their allies, but will ultimately be slain by [[Túrin Turambar]], the Man he cursed. By finally defeating Morgoth, Túrin will avenge not only himself, but all members of the race of Men, since Morgoth seduced them long ago.

==Legacy==
Morgoth's will was suffused into the matter of Arda, so in a sense he is never truly gone. Arda was [[Arda Marred|marred]] by him so deeply that only Eru could fully repair the damage. Those who wished to follow in Morgoth's footsteps, such as Sauron, found that by using his residual influence, they could easily corrupt races they wished to dominate.

==Characteristics==
[[Image:James Stirzaker - Melkor and the Silmarils.jpg|thumb|left|200px|''Melkor and the Silmarils'' by [[James Stirzaker]]]]Morgoth had taken a form great and terrible, and was eventually unable to leave it. Traditionally he was covered head to foot in armor, though this is not specifically stated by [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]. He received many scars and wounds over the ages: his hands were burned forever when he touched the Silmarils, Fingolfin wounded him seven times during their battle as well as a wound the foot that caused him ever after to limp, Thorondor scarred his face with his talons.

Morgoth wielded [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] in battle, a weapon he presumably forged himself in [[Angband]] (unless Sauron or Gothmog had held it safe after the [[Siege of Utumno]]). He also had great mental and physical power, at least in the earlier days, greater than any of the other [[Valar]].

==Names==
* ''Morgoth'' (''[[Bauglir]]'') – [[Q.]] “The Dark Enemy” (“The Constrainer”), given him by [[Fëanor]]
* ''Melkor'' – [[Q.]] “He who arises in might”
* ''Dark King (of Angband)'' – given him by [[Men]]
* ''[[Dark Lord]]''
* ''[[Belegur]]([[Belegurth|th]])'' – [[S.]] “Great Death”
* ''Lord of the Dark''
* ''Dark Hunter'' – Given him by the fearful early [[Elves]] before they met [[Oromë]]
* ''[[mbelekôro]]'' – [[C.E.]] Unknown meaning
* ''Great Enemy''
* ''Black Foe''
* ''Master of the fates of Arda'' - used by him when speaking to [[Húrin]]
* ''[[Elder King]]'' - used when speaking to [[Húrin]]
* ''Melko, Belcha, Melegor, Meleko'' – Earlier names Tolkien used but abandoned

==Minions==
* [[Sauron]] – Greatest of his servants, later to become [[Lord of the Rings]], perished with the [[One Ring]]
* [[Gothmog (Lord of Balrogs)|Gothmog]], [[Lord of Balrogs]] – killed by [[Ecthelion of the Fountain]] during the [[Fall of Gondolin]]
* [[Glaurung]] – [[Father of Dragons]], killed by [[Túrin Turambar|Túrin]]
* [[Ancalagon]] – Greatest of the [[Winged Dragons]], slain by [[Eärendil the Mariner|Eärendil]]
* [[Othrond]] – (noncanon) [[Orc]]-general during the Fall of Gondolin, killed by [[Tuor]]
* [[Lungorthin]] - (noncanon) A Balrog, Master of the Guard of Angband

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Morgoth|Images of Morgoth]]

[[Category:Valar]]
[[de:Morgoth]]

Magic

2008-08-17T23:15:58Z

Ælfwine:

{{expansion}}
'''Magic''' was a term used by the [[Hobbits]] to describe processes and abilities of objects which could not be explained out of their limited lore and knowledge.
{{quote|For this is what your folk would call magic. I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem also to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', [[The Mirror of Galadriel]]}}

"Magic" for Elves and Wizards, was not something special or different from the natural world, just part of it that was not immediately visible, leading to more common categorization of things as "Seen" or "Unseen". The "Seen" aspects of a thing or person are only part of it. Through the power of the One Ring, Frodo Baggins at times saw powerful Elves, such as the High-elf Glorfindel, in their true level of power and radiance that extends into the Unseen.

The effects which could be described magical, were of different natures.

==Divine magic==
The [[Ainur]] as supernatural beings could alter the world in terms according to their nature. [[Sauron]] being a Maia (a lesser Ainu) used his powers to manipulate his slaves and objects. Some of them he taught to the [[Elves]] who created the [[Rings of Power]], as well as his slaves, the [[Black Númenóreans]] and the Kings who became [[Nazgûl]], who used this lore as "sorcery".

Similar magic was the one used by the [[Istari]], the Maiar who came to [[Middle-earth]] to help the [[Free Peoples]] against Sauron. The nature of the Istari was not known to all, and they were known as wise old men. They were called [[Wizards]].

Properly, Men using "magic", even for good, are not termed "Wizards". In Tolkien's mythology, this term is specifically only used for the Order of the Istari, who are of angelic origin. A member of the race of Men wielding magical powers would be referred to as a sorcerer, whether for good or evil.

==Elven magic==
The Elves were not supernatural beings and although knew the powers of the [[Ainur]], they did not seem to comprehend the concept of "magic". The Elves were taught arts and crafts by the [[Valar]] in [[Valinor]] and could put dedication and love in every thing they wrought. Due to their immortality, Elven smiths could reach high levels of experience in craft and lore.

As mentioned, the Rings of Power were such "magical" objects that would seem supernatural to the regular people; they gave powers of manipulation of the word and invisibility. Other Elven artifacts were the [[Palantíri]] or the [[Lamps of the Noldor]], as well as the [[Mirror of Galadriel]]. Some simpler artifacts were the river-boats of the [[Galadhrim]] and the elven ropes, which seemd to have will on their own.
==Dark magic==
Sindarin has two words for dark magic: [[morgul]] and [[guldur]], although it is not defined clearly, the element "gul" literally means "lore" or "knowledge". It refers to the divine magic of Sauron, but also the powers of the [[Ringwraiths]].

Tolkien uses the word "Sorcery" and "Sorcerer" in negative context. Sorcery is the equivalent of the dark magic. Sauron taught by Sauron to some of his followers like the [[Witch-King]] of [[Angmar]] and the [[Mouth of Sauron]] and perhaps other [[Black Numenoreans]].

[[Category:Concepts]]

Disaster of the Morannon

2008-08-17T16:05:02Z

Ælfwine: spelling error

{{unnamed}}
{{expansion}}

The '''Disaster of the Morannon''' was a battle in [[Third Age 1944]] in which King [[Ondoher]] of [[Gondor]] attempted to rout the northern alliance of [[Wainriders]].

== Events Prior to the Battle ==
== The Battle ==

Due primarily to opposing cavalry, Ondoher's army was defeated. Ondoher and his eldest son [[Artamir]] were killed, and the Wainriders were victorious. They camped and rejoiced on the battlefield after the end, until the [[Battle of the Camp]].

== Aftermath ==

[[Category:Conflicts of the Third Age]]
[[fi:Morannonin Tappio]]

King's Company

2008-08-11T20:13:52Z

Ælfwine: unnecessary double redirect

The '''King's Company''' was the first [[Éored]] of the [[Riders of Rohan]], who rode to battle beside the King himself. Also known as the '''King's Riders'''.

[[Category:Armies]]

Talk:Rings of Power

2008-08-09T15:26:29Z

Ælfwine: The Seven

Can I add this or is would it fall under "copyrighted work?"
<poem>
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie
One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them,
One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie
</poem>
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:20, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:It's just a quote. Wherever it's used it should be cited as to it's source, which is probably FOTR. You shouldn't use it for a profit making activity without getting permission from the Tolkien Estate or the applicable publisher. There won't be any problems using it on this site.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 20:04, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

::As long as we're only quoting a small fragment of the book and using it for educational purposes then it is considered fair use. There really isn't a strict point at which a quote becomes too long so we just have to be careful, the Ring quote should be fine. Longer poems are when it becomes more tricky, anything more than a paragraph or two is most likely too long to quote in full. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 20:33, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

== The Seven ==

In the article it says that when Durin III fell, his ring was lost with him. I thought that this was the same ring that was retaken by Sauron from Thrain II, am I wrong? Also, doesn't Gandalf once say "Three he has recaptured, and the others the dragons have consumed."

Rings of Power

2008-08-09T00:51:13Z

Ælfwine: done

'''The Rings of Power''' or '''Great Rings''' were twenty Rings of Power. The [[Elves]] of [[Eregion]] made nineteen of the Rings of Power (and many other lesser rings) with knowledge obtained from [[Sauron]], and several of them with Sauron aiding the creation. Sauron forged the twentieth Great Ring, called the [[One Ring]] or the Ruling Ring, secretly in the fires of [[Mount Doom]].

A verse that summarizes the Great Rings and their ownership is an important part of the lore of Middle-earth. It translates as follows:

<poem>
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie
One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them,
One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie
</poem>

== The Creation of the Rings of Power ==
According to Appendix B of [[The Lord of the Rings]], in approximately S.A. 1500 the Seven and Nine were created first, in Eregion by an alliance of the Elven smiths led by [[Celebrimbor]] and Sauron. Sauron departed, and Celebrimbor went on to forge the three, finishing around S.A. 1590, using the knowledge he had gained from Sauron but without his involvement. The one, created around S.A. 1600, was finally completed by Sauron, alone, in the heart of Mount Doom. Sauron created it to rule over all the other rings, and he put a great part of his power into the One. The Elves, upon creation of the One, heard Sauron speak the closing lines of the preceding poem's verse, and realized they had been betrayed. They defied Sauron, and though they fought valiantly, Sauron gained all the rings still in their posession save the Three.

== The Three ==
The Three Rings of the Elves of Eregion were forged by [[Celebrimbor]] alone, and were never touched by Sauron. However, their forging involved some of the arts taught to Celebrimbor by Annatar (Sauron); thus they too were bound to the One Ring to some extent. They were named [[Narya]], the Ring of Fire, worn by [[Cirdan]] then later given to [[Gandalf]]; [[Nenya]], the Ring of Water, worn by [[Galadriel]]; and [[Vilya]], the Ring of Air, borne by [[Elrond]]. They remained hidden, and the whereabouts of two were not revealed until the end of the Third Age, after the One Ring was destroyed, and the [[Dark Lord]] Sauron was overthrown (Galadriel reveals her posession of one of the rings to [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] in [[Fellowship of the Ring]]).

== The Seven ==
Sauron gave the Seven Rings to the Dwarf-kings (although according to Dwarvish tradition the Elves gave one of them to the Dwarf Lord [[Durin III]] who fell in moria, his ring being lost with him.) and the Nine Rings to Mortal Men. The Dwarves used their Rings to establish their treasure hoards, but Sauron, according to portions of ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', was unable to force the Dwarven bearers to submit. Indeed, the rings did not even turn them invisible; they were immune to some of the more detrimental effects of the rings. It is believed that the dwarves natural hardiness, and the fact that it was only the more powerful dwarf lords who possessed them, made them resistant to Sauron's control, yet allowed them to accumulate treasure. Of the Seven the dwarves now possess none. The final ring to leave the possession of the dwarves occured when Thráin II was captured, and imprisoned by Sauron (in the guise of the necromancer) in 2845 of the Third Age.

== The Nine ==
''Main article: [[Nazgûl]]''

The nine rings for mortal men were those divided amongst those evil-hearted men doomed to become the Nazgûl, the [[Ringwraiths]]. None are mentioned specifically throughout [[The Lord of the Rings]] save their leader, the [[Witch-king of Angmar]]. His second-in-command is named in the [[Unfinished Tales]] as [[Khamûl]], the Black [[Easterlings|Easterling]].
The early Middle-earth Role Playing games name the eight other Ringwraiths, Er-Murazor (the Witch-king, of Númenórean race), Dwar, Ji Indur, Akhorahil, Hoarmurath (Númenórean), Adunaphel (female Númenórean), Ren and Uvatha, but none of these names are considered canon, and especially the idea of a female Ringwraith is extremely unlikely within the context of Tolkien's work.

== The One ==
''Main Article: [[One Ring]]''

The one ring, secretly forged by Sauron in the heart of Mount Doom, had the power to dominate all nineteen other rings. His domain over the other rings was incomplete, but the force Sauron could bring to bear with the Ring was amazing nonetheless. This was due in part to his placing a large amount of his own power into it at its forging; a necessity that later led to his downfall at Frodo's hands.

== The Power Of The Rings ==
The Rings of Power all had certain abilities, shared amongst them; the only different ones were the three. Below are some of the abilities they granted.

=== The Nine and the Seven ===
* '''Invisibility''' - According to Tolkien, all the rings save the Three made the wearer invisible. Note that, though the Seven did presumably grant invisibility, it did not do so for any dwarf. Dwarves are largely immune to the Rings of Powers effects in this area; prevention of invisibility in this case also defended them from the fate of those Men who wore the Nine.
* '''Ability Enhancement''' - All these rings granted the bearer an increased ability in his innate talents; the Dwarves specifically are made mention of having used their rings to increase their treasure troves; arguably the ring's corruption can be seen even here. The treasure hoards of these dwarves drew the mightiest of dragons and opponents.

=== The Three ===
The Three do not do as the other rings. They do not make one invisible (though they themselves can be made so, as Galadriel showed Frodo), and they have the ability enhancement, but it is largely secondary to the main effect the Elves achieved - that of stasis. A wearer of one of the Rings of Three gains the power to preserve, in many different ways, whatever they control. Galadriel's allows her to fend off Sauron and preserve [[Lothlorien]]. Elrond's allows him to do much the same in his domain.

=== The One ===
* '''Control''' - Control, over the other rings and in a limited sense the bearers was gained by whomever controlled the power caged inside the One Ring.
* '''Power''' - In its forging, to give it the ability of control, it was necessary for Sauron to allow a fatal amount of his power into the One Ring. Any bearer could use this power, though it would take time, determination, skill, and knowledge to do so.
*'''Invisibility''' - As is seen many times the One confers invisibility upon the wearer.

== The Final Disposition of the Rings of Power ==
[[Dragons]] destroyed four of the Seven Rings, and after [[Sauron|Sauron's]] return he recaptured the remaining three (the last from Thrain, father of [[Thorin Oakenshield]], just before or during the action of ''[[The Hobbit]]''). At the end of the [[War of the Ring]], they were presumably buried in the ruins of [[Barad-dûr]].

The Nine he took back from his [[Ringwraiths]], and they were still in his possession at the time of his fall. These, too, probably lie in the ruins of Barad-dûr.

The Three were hidden from him, and their bearers eventually took them to [[Aman]].

The One was destroyed in the [[Crack of Doom]] in [[The Return of the King]]. With its destruction, the remainder of the Seven, the Nine, and the Three Elven rings all became powerless.

[[Category:Rings and Jewels]]

Rings of Power

2008-08-09T00:49:48Z

Ælfwine:

'''The Rings of Power''' or '''Great Rings''' were twenty Rings of Power. The [[Elves]] of [[Eregion]] made nineteen of the Rings of Power (and many other lesser rings) with knowledge obtained from [[Sauron]], and several of them with Sauron aiding the creation. Sauron forged the twentieth Great Ring, called the [[One Ring]] or the Ruling Ring, secretly in the fires of [[Mount Doom]].

A verse that summarizes the Great Rings and their ownership is an important part of the lore of Middle-earth. It translates as follows:

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie
One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them,
One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie

== The Creation of the Rings of Power ==
According to Appendix B of [[The Lord of the Rings]], in approximately S.A. 1500 the Seven and Nine were created first, in Eregion by an alliance of the Elven smiths led by [[Celebrimbor]] and Sauron. Sauron departed, and Celebrimbor went on to forge the three, finishing around S.A. 1590, using the knowledge he had gained from Sauron but without his involvement. The one, created around S.A. 1600, was finally completed by Sauron, alone, in the heart of Mount Doom. Sauron created it to rule over all the other rings, and he put a great part of his power into the One. The Elves, upon creation of the One, heard Sauron speak the closing lines of the preceding poem's verse, and realized they had been betrayed. They defied Sauron, and though they fought valiantly, Sauron gained all the rings still in their posession save the Three.

== The Three ==
The Three Rings of the Elves of Eregion were forged by [[Celebrimbor]] alone, and were never touched by Sauron. However, their forging involved some of the arts taught to Celebrimbor by Annatar (Sauron); thus they too were bound to the One Ring to some extent. They were named [[Narya]], the Ring of Fire, worn by [[Cirdan]] then later given to [[Gandalf]]; [[Nenya]], the Ring of Water, worn by [[Galadriel]]; and [[Vilya]], the Ring of Air, borne by [[Elrond]]. They remained hidden, and the whereabouts of two were not revealed until the end of the Third Age, after the One Ring was destroyed, and the [[Dark Lord]] Sauron was overthrown (Galadriel reveals her posession of one of the rings to [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] in [[Fellowship of the Ring]]).

== The Seven ==
Sauron gave the Seven Rings to the Dwarf-kings (although according to Dwarvish tradition the Elves gave one of them to the Dwarf Lord [[Durin III]] who fell in moria, his ring being lost with him.) and the Nine Rings to Mortal Men. The Dwarves used their Rings to establish their treasure hoards, but Sauron, according to portions of ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', was unable to force the Dwarven bearers to submit. Indeed, the rings did not even turn them invisible; they were immune to some of the more detrimental effects of the rings. It is believed that the dwarves natural hardiness, and the fact that it was only the more powerful dwarf lords who possessed them, made them resistant to Sauron's control, yet allowed them to accumulate treasure. Of the Seven the dwarves now possess none. The final ring to leave the possession of the dwarves occured when Thráin II was captured, and imprisoned by Sauron (in the guise of the necromancer) in 2845 of the Third Age.

== The Nine ==
''Main article: [[Nazgûl]]''

The nine rings for mortal men were those divided amongst those evil-hearted men doomed to become the Nazgûl, the [[Ringwraiths]]. None are mentioned specifically throughout [[The Lord of the Rings]] save their leader, the [[Witch-king of Angmar]]. His second-in-command is named in the [[Unfinished Tales]] as [[Khamûl]], the Black [[Easterlings|Easterling]].
The early Middle-earth Role Playing games name the eight other Ringwraiths, Er-Murazor (the Witch-king, of Númenórean race), Dwar, Ji Indur, Akhorahil, Hoarmurath (Númenórean), Adunaphel (female Númenórean), Ren and Uvatha, but none of these names are considered canon, and especially the idea of a female Ringwraith is extremely unlikely within the context of Tolkien's work.

== The One ==
''Main Article: [[One Ring]]''

The one ring, secretly forged by Sauron in the heart of Mount Doom, had the power to dominate all nineteen other rings. His domain over the other rings was incomplete, but the force Sauron could bring to bear with the Ring was amazing nonetheless. This was due in part to his placing a large amount of his own power into it at its forging; a necessity that later led to his downfall at Frodo's hands.

== The Power Of The Rings ==
The Rings of Power all had certain abilities, shared amongst them; the only different ones were the three. Below are some of the abilities they granted.

=== The Nine and the Seven ===
* '''Invisibility''' - According to Tolkien, all the rings save the Three made the wearer invisible. Note that, though the Seven did presumably grant invisibility, it did not do so for any dwarf. Dwarves are largely immune to the Rings of Powers effects in this area; prevention of invisibility in this case also defended them from the fate of those Men who wore the Nine.
* '''Ability Enhancement''' - All these rings granted the bearer an increased ability in his innate talents; the Dwarves specifically are made mention of having used their rings to increase their treasure troves; arguably the ring's corruption can be seen even here. The treasure hoards of these dwarves drew the mightiest of dragons and opponents.

=== The Three ===
The Three do not do as the other rings. They do not make one invisible (though they themselves can be made so, as Galadriel showed Frodo), and they have the ability enhancement, but it is largely secondary to the main effect the Elves achieved - that of stasis. A wearer of one of the Rings of Three gains the power to preserve, in many different ways, whatever they control. Galadriel's allows her to fend off Sauron and preserve [[Lothlorien]]. Elrond's allows him to do much the same in his domain.

=== The One ===
* '''Control''' - Control, over the other rings and in a limited sense the bearers was gained by whomever controlled the power caged inside the One Ring.
* '''Power''' - In its forging, to give it the ability of control, it was necessary for Sauron to allow a fatal amount of his power into the One Ring. Any bearer could use this power, though it would take time, determination, skill, and knowledge to do so.
*'''Invisibility''' - As is seen many times the One confers invisibility upon the wearer.

== The Final Disposition of the Rings of Power ==
[[Dragons]] destroyed four of the Seven Rings, and after [[Sauron|Sauron's]] return he recaptured the remaining three (the last from Thrain, father of [[Thorin Oakenshield]], just before or during the action of ''[[The Hobbit]]''). At the end of the [[War of the Ring]], they were presumably buried in the ruins of [[Barad-dûr]].

The Nine he took back from his [[Ringwraiths]], and they were still in his possession at the time of his fall. These, too, probably lie in the ruins of Barad-dûr.

The Three were hidden from him, and their bearers eventually took them to [[Aman]].

The One was destroyed in the [[Crack of Doom]] in [[The Return of the King]]. With its destruction, the remainder of the Seven, the Nine, and the Three Elven rings all became powerless.

[[Category:Rings and Jewels]]

Talk:Rings of Power

2008-08-08T21:21:10Z

Ælfwine:

Can I add this or is would it fall under "copyrighted work?"

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie
One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them,
One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie

[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:20, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Rings of Power

2008-08-08T21:20:54Z

Ælfwine: question

Talk:Rings of Power

2008-08-08T21:20:31Z

Ælfwine: question

Nine riders

2008-08-07T22:42:39Z

Ælfwine:

#REDIRECT [[Nazgûl]]

User talk:Ælfwine

2008-08-07T22:41:44Z

Ælfwine:

Forums:Meetings

2008-08-07T22:35:40Z

Ælfwine:

<div style="background: #eee; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 5px">'''[[Main Page|Tolkien Gateway]] > [[Forum:Council|Council]] > {{PAGENAME}}'''</div> [[Category:Council]]

'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings]]'''

In 2006, [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] suggested that the regular editors of this site meet on the IRC network at the same time to discuss the site. I think this is an excellent idea, especially considering the large amount of activity on the site at the moment. The only issue which we need to resolve is when to have these meetings, it's going to be difficult to have a time which everybody will be happy with. If you are interested in joining this meeting then please state so below, and most importantly please state the time zone you're in. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:07, 6 August 2008 (EDT)


*My free hours are not much but it's a good idea [[User:Sage|Sage]] 18:22, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

*I'd love to be in on this! I'm on the east coast of the US so EDT time zone. [[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:35, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

Forums:Meetings

2008-08-07T22:33:38Z

Ælfwine:

<div style="background: #eee; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 5px">'''[[Main Page|Tolkien Gateway]] > [[Forum:Council|Council]] > {{PAGENAME}}'''</div> [[Category:Council]]

'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings]]'''

In 2006, [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] suggested that the regular editors of this site meet on the IRC network at the same time to discuss the site. I think this is an excellent idea, especially considering the large amount of activity on the site at the moment. The only issue which we need to resolve is when to have these meetings, it's going to be difficult to have a time which everybody will be happy with. If you are interested in joining this meeting then please state so below, and most importantly please state the time zone you're in. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:07, 6 August 2008 (EDT)


*My free hours are not much but it's a good idea [[User:Sage|Sage]] 18:22, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

:I'd love to be in on this! I'm on the east coast of the US so EDT time zone.

User talk:Sage

2008-08-03T22:31:27Z

Ælfwine: /* Elves */

{{w|Hyarion|[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]}}
==Tale of Years==
It's a known fact that the Tale of Years is full of mistakes, however, most of these were corrected in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th anniversary edition]]. That should be included as well. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:54, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

==Standards==
We should really include this in the welcome message, but just FYI: [[Tolkien Gateway:Standards]]. This is in reference to your use of "LotR" in [[Gildor Inglorion]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:39, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

== Elves ==

What published works say that elves are taller?

[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 20:58, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:*from the Appendices: the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed

:Since the writer of the Appendices is a Man, and his readers are also Men, why would he describe the Eldar as tall and not as short?

:Some characters, both Elves and Men are mentioned to be tall, and I understand these can be understood as 'relativistic'; for example you can say that the Eldar were tall relative to the other Elves, but still shorter than Men (although this explanation is quite tentative, and plausible only if you ''want'' to prove that Elves were shorter). I skimmed through the Silmarillion and saw that while the people of Marach are said to be tall, and while other men described as tall such as Galdor the Tall, most references were about Elves.
:*Ingwë the High King, golden-haired and tall
:*The seven sons of Fëanáro were Maedhros the tall...
:*their sister was Ar-feiniel the White. She was younger in the years of the Eldar than her brothers; and when she was grown to full stature and beauty she was tall and strong
:*[Thingol] tallest of all the Children of Ilúvatar
:*But Eöl, though stooped by his smithwork, was no Dwarf, but a tall Elf of a high kin of the Teleri
:*[Maeglin] was tall and black-haired; his eyes were dark

:I don't argue that the assumption that more Elves than Men tended to be tall, can be proben by a statistical analysis. However if Elves are shorter, why Thingol was to be the tallest of all Elves and Men, and not some Man? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

Well, Tolkien stated that elves and men were at first "of a like size" (that is probably the best description in the whole legendarium for their size difference) in the BOLT2. If this is true, whether they became smaller in later ages or not, Thingol could easily be the tallest of all the Children of Iluvatar, but that doesn't mean that most elves were taller than men. Also, more elves are described as tall in the Silmarillion than men because the Silmarillion was almost all about elves, and the very few central character men that were in it were often described as tall, such as Tuor and Turin, as were many men of later ages, especially of Numenorian decent.

While the elves may not be shorter than men in general, I do not think it can be said with certainty that they are taller. By the way, can we make a real talk page/forum for this?
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:48, 3 August 2008 (EDT)
:I am new here, I don't know the process so be my guest. But as a last note, I also remember in BOLT 1 that Elves are shorter, and I was shocked. Furthermore, I think I also read a comment that this idea was later dropped. Anyway I hope you are aware that the BOLT books take place in a different 'continuity' and shouldn't be considered as guides for the general canon. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:51, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

Perhaps they shouldn't be considered canon, but from '''''Tolkien's Legendarium; Essays on The History of Middle-earth'''''; "...there are Tolkien's latest thoughts, his best thoughts, and his published thoughts and these are not necessarily the same."
That is probably the wisest analysis that I have ever read about the world of Middle earth.
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:31, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

User talk:Sage

2008-08-03T21:48:27Z

Ælfwine: /* Elves */

User talk:Sage

2008-08-03T00:58:17Z

Ælfwine: /* Elves */

User talk:Sage

2008-08-03T00:56:19Z

Ælfwine: Elves

Talk:Elf-fathers

2008-08-03T00:51:06Z

Ælfwine:

Why did Christopher Tolkien not put these guys in the Silmarillion? Also this is from Ingwe's page:

Ingwë is the leader of the first Kindred of Elves called the Vanyar and the uncle of Indis, wife of Finwë. He was reckoned as High King of all the Elves. His name means "First One" in Quenya. His tower in Tirion was called Mindon Eldaliéva.

If his name means "First One" then why are these guys before him? I think that JRR might have wanted these guy's out of his mythology or maybe they were meant to be other names for Ingwe, Finwe, and Elwe.
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 20:51, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Elf-fathers

2008-08-03T00:47:22Z

Ælfwine:

Elves

2008-08-02T23:51:56Z

Ælfwine: height correction

{{race
| image=[[Image:Jenny Dolfen - Glorfindel and Ecthelion.jpg|300px]]
| name= Elves
| dominions= Most prominently [[Doriath]], [[Nargothrond]], [[Gondolin]], [[Hithlum]], [[Lindon]], [[Eregion]], [[Lothlórien]], and [[Rivendell]].
| languages= [[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]], with various other dialects.
| height=Taller than [[Men]].
| length=
| skincolor= Pale to tan.
| haircolor= Blonde, black, brown, red, and ocassionally silver.
| distinctions= Nearly immortal, inventors of writing and other arts.
| lifespans= [[Arda]]'s existence.
| members= [[Ingwë]], [[Thingol]], [[Finwë]], [[Fëanor]], [[Galadriel]], etc.
|}}
The '''Elves''' (''[[Eldar]]'') were the first of the races of the [[Children of Ilúvatar]], known also as the [[Firstborn]] for that reason. The Elves are distinguished from the other two races, the [[Men]] and the [[Dwarves]], especially by the fact of their near immortality.

==History==

===Awakening===
(''Main article: [[Awakening of the Elves]]'')

[[Image:Ted Nasmith - The Dawn of the Firstborn Elves.jpg|thumb|left|200px|''The Dawn of the Firstborn Elves,'' by [[Ted Nasmith]].]] About the same time that [[Varda]], Queen of the [[Valier]], ended her labors in creating the [[Stars]], the Elves awoke beside the lake [[Cuiviénen]]. The first thing they saw were the stars, and henceforth adored them. The first sound they heard was the flowing of water, and henceforth they loved water as well.

They made speech then, and called themselves the ''[[Quendi]]''. [[Melkor]] was the first to be aware of them, and he caused evil spirits to go about among them. When one or a small group wandered abroad, they would often vanish. It is believed that Melkor may have created [[orcs]] with the elves he captured.

[[Oromë]], the Huntsman of the [[Valar]], happened upon them when he heard their singing far-off. He was amazed to see them, and called them the ''Eldar'', “People of the Stars”.

===Sundering===
(''Main article: [[Sundering of the Elves]]'')

[[Image:Anke Eissmann - Oromë espies the first Elves.jpg|thumb|right|250px|''Oromë spies the first Elves,'' drawn by [[Anke Eissmann]].]] Though at first the Quendi were afraid of Oromë, the noblest among them saw that he was no dark horseman such as the lies of Melkor spread among them said. He had the light of [[Aman]] in his eyes and face, and they were drawn to him.

After spending a while among the Quendi, Oromë returned to [[Valinor]] and took council with the other Valar and Valier. At the counsel of [[Ilúvatar]], [[Manwë]], King of the Valar, decided that they must go to war against Melkor to protect the Quendi from him. After a great battle and [[Siege of Utumno]], which reshaped the earth itself, Melkor was bound and cast into the prison of [[Mandos]]. Then the Valar, pleased with the outcome, summoned the Elves to Valinor, seeking fellowship with them.

At Oromë’s urging, many of the Elves (especially the kindreds of [[Ingwë]], [[Finwë]], and [[Elwë]]) agreed. But others, henceforth called the [[Avari]], declared that they preferred starlight and the wide spaces of [[Middle-earth]]. So the Elves were first sundered. During the journey to [[Belegaer]], gradually the number of the Elves began to lessen as various groups dropped away. Some of the [[Teleri]] (kindred of Elwë) refused to cross the [[Misty Mountains]], and settled in [[Anduin]] under the leadership of [[Lenwë]], to be called later the [[Nandor]]. Elwë then went missing, and in dismay the rest of the Teleri remained behind, while the [[Noldor]] (kindred of Finwë) and [[Vanyar]] (kindred of Ingwë) used an island as a ship, and found at last Aman and Valinor.

After several years, Oromë returned to search for the Teleri. Some, under [[Olwë]], relented and followed. Others remained to continue to search for Elwë. Still others, under [[Círdan]], remained because in that time they had become devoted to [[Ossë]] and the Sea. Those Teleri that chose to remain were called the [[Sindar]]. Elwë, who had fallen asleep due to his enchantment with [[Melian]], returned to claim lordship and establish them in [[Doriath]]. The Noldor and some of the Teleri, however, built the great cities of [[Tirion]] and [[Alqualondë]] (respectively) in Aman. The Vanyar dwelt in [[Valmar]], for they were closest to the Valar of the kindreds.

===Exile of the Noldor===
(''Main article: [[Exile of the Noldor]]'')

[[Image:Jenny Dolfen - The Coming of Fingolfin.jpg|thumb|right|200px|''The Coming of Fingolfin'', as drawn by [[Jenny Dolfen]].]] Melkor, having been released on the promise of good behavior, spread lies about the Valar among the Noldor. [[Fëanor]], the eldest son of Finwë and one of the greatest Elves to have ever lived, hated Melkor more than all the other Noldor, but was paradoxically one of the most influenced by his lies. He forged weapons, and his greatest works, the [[Silmarils]], captured the light of the [[Two Trees]] – and his own heart. After Melkor stole the Silmarils and killed Finwë, Fëanor stirred the Noldor to open disobedience to the Valar. In an epic journey filled with treachery, death, and deceit, the Noldor entered in to Exile, crossing over into [[Beleriand]].

===Wars of Beleriand===
(''Main article: [[Wars of Beleriand]]'')

There were five great battles fought in Beleriand. The [[First Battle]] was the result of an attack by Melkor on Círdan and Elwë (now known as [[Thingol]]). Though the Elves managed to resist the attack successfully, this left Melkor essentially with full reign of Beleriand. Upon the sudden and unanticipated [[Return of the Noldor]], the tables were reversed in the [[Dagor-nuin-Giliath]]. The third battle (“[[Dagor Aglareb]]”) occurred when Melkor tried unsuccessfully to destroy the Elves, breaking forth from [[Angband]]. This only resulted in the vigilant [[Siege of Angband]]. Morgoth was more successful in the next battle, [[Dagor Bragollach]], which ended in the deaths of many Elven princes, among them [[Fingolfin]], [[High King of the Noldor]]. The siege was broken. Several decades later, [[Maedhros]], eldest son of Fëanor, counterattacked in the [[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]. Although at first very successful, the tide turned against the Elves, and ended in the destruction of [[Hithlum]]. It was not half a century later that [[Gondolin]], the last real stronghold of the Noldor, was [[The Fall of Gondolin|destroyed]]. [[Doriath]], the center of the [[Sindar]]in realm, was sacked by [[Dwarves]].[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Eärendil and the Battle of Eagles and Dragons.jpg|left|150px|thumb|''Eärendil - The Battle of Eagles and Dragons,'' by [[Ted Nasmith]].]]

===Salvation of the Elves===
(''Main article: [[War of Wrath]]'')

With the near destruction of the Elves, the last survivors were at the [[Mouths of the Sirion]] and [[Balar]]. Their lord was [[Eärendil]], the son of [[Tuor]] and [[Idril]]. Eärendil made a miraculous voyage to [[Valinor]] to beg the pardon of the Valar. His request was granted. The Valar came across the Sea to [[Middle-earth]], and in the [[War of Wrath]] thrust Morgoth into the [[Void]] and purged Beleriand. They offered to let the Elves return with them to Valinor; many accepted, but others, under [[Gil-galad]], chose to remain.

===Decline of the Elves===

[[Image:Angus McBride - Celebrimbor.gif|thumb|right|150px|''Celebrimbor'', by [[Angus McBride]].]] Though Morgoth was gone to trouble the world no longer, [[Sauron]], his greatest servant, was still there, and he made war on the remaining Elves who chose not to depart Middle-earth. Throughout the [[Second Age|Second]] and [[Third Age]]s he fought them. During this time the Elves realized how [[Men]] were rising to take their place, but [[Celebrimbor]], the grandson of Fëanor, wrought the [[Rings of Power]], especially the [[Three Rings]] to preserve the Elves. But Sauron under the guise of [[Annatar]] also forged a ring – the [[One Ring]]. It was not until the end of the Third Age that this last ring was destroyed, marring the Three Rings at the same time. In the years that followed the last of the Elves departed across the Sea to Valinor, their mission against Sauron complete, never to return.

==Life and Customs of the Elves==
(''Main articles: [[Elven Characteristics]], [[Elven Life cycle]], and [[Elven Customs]]'')

Besides being considered more beautiful than men, Elves were also generally shorter. Their hair color varied; but the basic rules were that the [[Noldor]] generally had dark hair (brown or black), the [[Vanyar]] golden, and the [[Teleri]] silver or dark. Their eyes are usually described as gray. Their most distinguishing characteristic from the [[Mortals|Mortal]] races was the fact that they were invulnerable to age or disease; unless they were killed by sword or sorrow they would live to the end of the world.

Their lives were counted to begin at conception rather than birth, and though their minds sharpened much earlier in life than in the race of Men, their bodies grew more slowly. They were considered fully-grown at about a century. They married usually only once in their lives, and their children were often few and far-between.

==Languages==
(''Main article:[[Elvish]]'')

[[Image:Donato Giancola - Lore.jpeg|thumb|right|200px|''Lore,'' by [[Donato Giancola]].]] Because [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] developed the Elves almost for his languages, those he developed are of special interest to many Tolkien scholars. His primary languages are [[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]], but these have many variants and dialects as is seen in the table below. They were generally written in the [[Cirth]] and [[Tengwar]] scripts.

*'''[[Primitive Quendian]]'''
**'''[[Avari]]n'''
***'''Various Avarin languages''' (some later merged with Nandorin)
**'''[[Common Eldarin]]''' (the early language of all the [[Eldar]])
***'''[[Quenya]]''' (the language of the [[Noldor]] and the [[Vanyar]])
****''' ''Quendya'' (also ''Vanyarin Quenya'') ''' (daily tongue of the Vanyar: closest to archaic Quenya)
****''' ''Noldorin Quenya'' (also ''Exilic Quenya'') ''' (the "Elven Latin" of Middle-earth)
***'''[[Common Telerin]]''' (the early language of all the [[Lindar]])
****'''[[Teleri]]n''' (the language of the [[Teleri]] who reached the [[Undying Lands]])
****'''[[Nandor]]in''' (languages of the [[Nandor]] — some were influenced by Avarin)
*****'''Original language of [[Mirkwood|Greenwood the Great]]'''
*****'''Original language of [[Lothlórien|Lórinand]]'''
****'''[[Sindarin]]''' (language of the [[Sindar]])
*****'''[[Doriathrin]]''' (dialect of [[Doriath]])
*****'''[[Falathrin]]''' (dialect of the [[Falas]] and [[Nargothrond]])
*****'''[[North Sindarin]]''' (dialects of [[Dorthonion]] and [[Hithlum]])

== See Also ==
* '''[[:Category:Images of Elves|Images of Elves]]'''

[[Category:Races]]
[[Category:Elves]]
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]

[[de:Elben]]

Talk:Túrin

2008-08-02T21:45:44Z

Ælfwine: /* FA prospects */

== FA prospects ==

This is a well-written article with FA potential. A polishing would be good, with some increased subdividing into section, with some more refs.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 13:41, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

: I'm the one who wishes most to see this article in the FA section. However, there ain't enough Prozac in this world to make me open that book again for further expansion of the text. :) But I will add more References and rewrite the family tree. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 14:05, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

::I'll see if I can whip up a nice etymologies section, then... -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 14:19, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Are there any other possible pictures of Turin that could be used? The current one seems a little rough.[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:45, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

Saruman

2008-07-31T16:00:19Z

Ælfwine: /* Origins */

{{Istari infobox
| image=[[Image:John Howe - Saruman.jpg|250px]]
| name=Saruman
| othernames=Of many colours, White, Ring-maker, Wise, Curunír, Curumo, Sharkey
| coming=Entered [[Middle-earth]] in [[Third Age 1000]]
| death=[[Third Age 3019]]
| duty=Wizard
| robes=White
| gender=Male
| hair= Black, gradually turning white
| appearance= Tall, long faced with deep eyes
|}}
{{quote|He has a mind of metal and wheels; and he does not care for growing things, except as far as they serve him for the moment. And now it is clear that he is a black traitor.|[[Treebeard]], ''[[Treebeard (chapter)]]''}}
'''Saruman the White''' ([[Third Age]] c. 1000 – 3019, existed in [[Middle-earth]] for 2019 years) was the first of the order of [[Wizards]] (or [[Istari]]) who came to Middle-earth as Emissaries of the [[Valar]] in the Third Age. He was the leader of the [[White Council]]. In [[Sindarin]] his name was '''Curunír''', which meant "Man of Skill".

== Characteristics ==
[[Image:WAR-ICONS Saruman.jpg|right|150px]]
In appearance, Saruman was as an old man with black hair. At the end of the Third Age, his hair and beard had turned mostly white — he had only black hairs about his lips and ears. He was tall, his face was long, and his eyes were deep and dark. He would appear in a white cloak, a habit he later changed into a cloak that changed colours as he moved.

He was not actually a [[Men|Man]], or even an [[Elves|Elf]] (as Men often suspected), but a [[Maiar|Maia]] clothed in flesh — an [[Istari|Istar]] ((see ''Origins'' below). As such, he was immortal and extremely powerful, yet had limits on how far these powers could be used. His two most salient powers were his knowledge and his voice.

The name given to him by Men, ''Saruman'', is in the [[Rohirric|Language of Rohan]]. In Tolkien's works, the English language is used to represent the [[Westron]], the common speech of Middle-earth, while its ancestor, Anglo-Saxon, represents the Language of Rohan. In this case, Tolkien used the Anglo-Saxon root word ''searu'' which means "skill" or "cunning". As a scholar, Tolkien would also have been well aware of the name of a similarly-named historic 'head of his order', Jaruman. The real Westron version of his name remains unknown.

His name among the Elves was ''Curunír'' and was often followed by '''Lân'' (or ''Glân'', unlenited), which translates as his epithet, "The White". In Valinor, his name was ''Curumo'', which is the original [[Quenya]] version of the name. As Sindarin did not have the male suffix ''-mo'', it was replaced with ''-ndir'', which in turn did not exist in Quenya.

=== Powers ===
Knowledge of the "deep arts" (or magic, such as it is in Middle-earth) was of particular interest to Saruman, especially when relating to power—such as the [[Rings of Power]] and the far seeing ''[[palantíri]]''. He was also deeply learned in ancient lore regarding powerful kingdoms such as [[Númenor]], [[Gondor]], and [[Moria]].

His voice and speech were extremely convincing, more powerful than mere rhetoric. When he focused this power on a person or a group of people, he could sway their hearts, plant fears and sow lies as he pleased. According to the stature of the listener, this spell could last as long as the speech did, or it could take root in them and last forever.

Other powers include knowledge of machinery and chemistry, probably separable from explicit magic (for instance, the "blasting fire" employed by his [[Uruk-hai]] army in the battle of [[Helm's Deep]], was probably some kind of explosive). Machinery and engines characterized both his fortified [[Isengard]] and his altered [[Shire]]. In this, he probably sought to emulate [[Sauron]].

His science also extended to biological areas. He is believed to have crossbred Men and Orcs, creating a new race of Orcs unafraid of daylight, the Uruk-hai. His human spies in [[Bree]] were said to have Orc blood. He also employed birds in his service, although this might also be attributed to [[Radagast]] the Brown, ordering them to report to [[Orthanc]], Saruman's stronghold.

Being regarded as more powerful than [[Gandalf]] (at least before Gandalf's "rebirth"), it's fair to assume he would also wield explicit magic similar to Gandalf, such as artificial light, locking spells, creating fire, etc.

=== Personality ===
Saruman resembled Gandalf not only in appearance, but originally also somewhat in character, but unlike Gandalf, Saruman was proud. He saw himself as the most powerful of the Istari, expressing clear contempt for Radagast the Brown. Saruman was no fool (though he saw Ragadast as one); he realized Gandalf's power, and eventually came to see him as an equal, and later as a superior, much to his distress. He became jealous of Gandalf, eventually convincing himself that Gandalf was scheming against him, which justified his own scheming against Gandalf and the rest of the White Council.

Saruman likely was true to his mission in the beginning, and actually believed in working to stop Sauron, but his pride and later arrogance (as well as his jealousy towards the Grey Wanderer) turned him into a traitor to the cause he had once served. Saruman's betrayal was not sudden, but slowly grew over time, until at last he had convinced himself that he could not have taken any other path, and that it was too late now to repent. This false belief kept him from taking his last chance at redemption, and because he must have realized this he only became more bitter, blaming Gandalf more than anyone else for his own downfall. In fact he only had himself to blame, but he refused to believe this.

== Origins ==
In [[Valinor]], a council was called by [[Manwë]]. This was likely in the middle of the second age, shortly after the creation of the rings of power. It was decided to send five [[Wizards|emissaries]] to Middle Earth. These should be "mighty, peers of Sauron, yet forgo might, and clothe themselves in flesh" — Istari, or Wizards.

One of those who went was '''''[[Curumo]]''''' (later in [[Sindarin]] ''[[Curunír]]'', or in [[Westron]] ''Saruman''), a powerful Maia of [[Aulë]] (just as Sauron was). Maiar were angelic creatures of the same people as the Valar, only of lower order. Together, they were the [[Ainur]], and existed before the [[Arda]], the world, was created.

Saruman was one of those who volunteered, whereas the last one, ''[[Olórin]]'', (later Gandalf) was commanded by Manwë to go. Saruman's jealousy of Gandalf began even here, when [[Varda]] said of Gandalf, who went as the third Istar that he was "not the third". Saruman was charged to take Radagast with him, which he did not wish to do and which led to contempt for the latter Wizard.

== History ==

===Arrival in Middle-earth===

According to most tales, Saruman arrived alone in a ship at [[Mithlond]] (the [[Grey Havens]]) in the west of [[Eriador]] around the year 1000 of the [[Third Age]], and only [[Círdan]] knew his identity and his origin. There are two short stories known that tell a bit different story. The first tells ''that [[Curumo]] (Saruman) took [[Aiwendil]] ([[Radagast]]) because [[Yavanna]] begged him'', and the second states: ''"Curumo was obliged to take Aiwendil to please Yavanna wife of [[Aulë]],"'' (''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', Part Four, II: [[The Istari]]).

He went into the East of Middle-earth, as did the two [[Blue Wizards]]. After one and a half millennia he returned to the West, just as Sauron's power was growing again in [[Dol Guldur]].

When the [[White Council]] was formed around the year 2463 of the Third Age, Saruman was appointed its leader. Even then, he had begun to sense the resurgence of Sauron and to envy and desire his power, and especially his [[One Ring]]. Coincidentally, in that same year the One Ring was found by the creature [[Gollum]], drawing the [[Dark Lord]] closer to the conflict that would eventually prove Saruman's undoing.

===Chief of the White Council===

In [[2759 TA]], [[Beren, Steward of Gondor]], granted Saruman permission to make the Tower of Orthanc in the ring of [[Isengard]] his abode. There he became important in the defence of the free lands of the West. In Orthanc he came upon a palantír, one of the seven seeing stones, but kept it secret and hidden, particularly from the White Council. He would later betray the Council by concealing his use of it.

In [[2850 TA]] Gandalf entered [[Dol Guldur]] and confirmed that the evil presence there was indeed Sauron returned. By Saruman's advice, the White Council decided against attacking Dol Guldur. At this council-meeting Gandalf (for the first time) revealed that he suspected that Saruman desired to possess the One Ring.

Saruman's real strategy behind forestalling the Council's attempt at Dol Guldur focused on permitting Sauron to continue building up his strength, so that the One Ring would reveal itself. At that point Saruman hoped to have sufficient strength to seize it first himself. He soon found that Sauron had more knowledge of the possible location of the One Ring than he expected, and in 2941 TA he finally consented to an attack against Sauron at Dol Guldur (at which point Sauron retreats to Mordor and the Battle of the Five Armies takes place).

Either at this time or shortly before Saruman's studies of ring-lore paid off, and he seems to have emulated part of the skill of the [[Noldor]] of [[Eregion]] and created his own Ring. He probably used this to enhance his skills, and became an even greater enchanter with the power of his voice. It however seems unlikely that his Ring was as powerful as one of the Three Rings of the Elves, let alone the One Ring.

Sauron abandoned Dol Guldur, arose again, and took up his reign in [[Mordor]], declaring himself openly. In Mordor, he established contact with Saruman through the palantír captured from [[Minas Ithil]] (later [[Minas Morgul]]). Through his jealousy towards Gandalf and his ever-growing pride and arrogance, and through the use of the palantír, wrestling in thought with the Enemy, Saruman became a servant of Sauron's will (although unintentionally, as his hopes were to gain the One Ring for himself).

===War of the Ring===

At about this time, in an attempt to control Rohan, Saruman bought the allegiance of King [[Théoden]]'s chief advisor, [[Gríma Wormtongue]], who then counselled the ailing king to do nothing about the steady resurgence of Sauron's armies. Saruman and Wormtongue's treachery would have crippled Rohan's military might, had not Gandalf interfered a year later and revealed to Théoden his right-hand man's true designs, healing the old king and revitalizing his political and military rule.

Saruman did not reveal his true intentions until Gandalf presented him with the discovery and location of the One Ring. He then revealed his contact with Sauron and belief that they must join the Dark Lord or fail. Saruman then stood forth as '''Saruman of Many Colours''', and when Gandalf refused to join with him, he held him captive in Isengard. Gandalf later escaped, and so Saruman's treachery became known to the rest of the White Council when Gandalf reported it during the subsequent Council of [[Elrond]].

Saruman soon also betrayed his new master Sauron by lying to the Witch-king when he arrived at Isengard. Sauron had sent the Nazgúl searching for [[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]], who had found the One Ring years before, and the Shire, his home. Saruman pretended to know nothing about the Shire, but the Nazgûl later captured one of his Shire spies. Caught now between both sides as a known traitor to both, Saruman put all efforts into obtaining the One Ring for himself.

Saruman implemented a strategy of attacking [[Rohan]], endeavouring to kill the King's son Théodred, sending spies to waylay [[Frodo Baggins]] on his flight from the Shire, and dispatching raiding parties on likely routes a company of the Ring might take to Gondor. Ironically, one of these parties captured [[Peregrin Took]] and [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]] and transported them to [[Fangorn Forest]] in time to mobilize the [[Ents]]. Gandalf also suspected Saruman had found (and destroyed) the remains of [[Isildur]], who had worn the Ring before it had been lost.

Saruman's Shire network failed to capture Frodo Baggins, Gandalf rallied Rohan to victory, [[Éomer]] stopped his only partially successful raiding party, and control of Isengard was lost to the [[Ents]]. Aware he was utterly defeated, Saruman briefly considered repenting for his deeds, but at the last moment could not go through with it. He must have still had some hope he could somehow escape, and even that infinitely small chance was better than his certain humiliation at the hands of those he had tried to destroy. Saruman still made a final attempt to woo Théoden and Gandalf to his cause but failed: his staff was broken and he was dismissed from the order of the Istari.

It must have been during Gandalf's captivity in Orthanc that Saruman began to build his army of Orcs, [[Dunlendings]], and Uruk-hai, since Gandalf came to an as yet undestroyed Isengard. One can speculate that if matters had developed a little more slowly, his puppet Wormtongue would have gained full control over Rohan, and the [[Rohirrim]] would have been enslaved or destroyed.

Saruman's plans likely failed because he, like Sauron, was forced to reveal his hand early by Gandalf's subsequent escape, and therefore he had little time to perfect his plans. As Saruman considered himself "unfallen", he honestly believed he had a chance of converting Gandalf to his side, and felt honestly betrayed by Gandalf when he was refused. The failure to capture the Ring at Emyn Arnen further ruined Saruman's plans, as he was revealed as a traitor to Mordor now as well.

Left out of the final stages of the War of the Ring, he eventually managed to convince his captors, the Ents, into letting him leave Isengard, proving that the magic of his voice still remained. He then went to the Shire, which his agent [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]] (undisturbed by events elsewhere) had brought under control. Spending his final days as a small-time thug lord in [[Hobbiton]] known as '''''Sharkey''''', he was eventually betrayed and killed by his own servant Wormtongue on November 3, [[Third Age|T.A.]] 3019, when even this operation fell apart after Frodo and [[Samwise Gamgee]] returned.

Saruman, as a Maia, did not truly die, but his spirit lost its shape (much like Sauron's after the [[Akallabêth|Downfall of Númenor]] and after his defeat by the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men|Last Alliance]]). As a discorporated spirit, he should have been called to [[Mandos]], but the tale implies that he was barred from returning. We may speculate that his spirit was left naked, powerless and wandering in Middle-earth (perhaps like Sauron's after the One Ring was destroyed).

== Politics ==

=== Men ===
Tolkien writes of Saruman that "he went mostly among men". He always sought power, and in the Third Age the greatest power lay in the hands of the kingdoms of Men.

No records speak of his earliest journeys into the east of Middle-earth, but when he returned, he actually became for a while a servant of Gondor, receiving the keys to Orthanc from [[Beren Erchamion|Beren]] ([[Steward of Gondor]]), as its warden.

Saruman later claimed Orthanc for his own, without any formal declaration (or real objection from a weakened Gondor). Still, he nominally remained an ally of Gondor and of Rohan. Throughout this time he also made long studies of scrolls and books in Minas Tirith.

When he turned to treachery, Saruman still employed men in his schemes, mainly from [[Dunland]], but also selected agents from other lands (such as Wormtongue.) Saruman was a master of deceit, and could easily turn old grudges into fuel for new hatred.

The Dunlendings found employment in his armies, and it also seems probable that he used some of these men in his crossbreeding programme to create Half-Orcs. The Dunlendings were enticed with the old stories that they had once lived in the plains of Rohan before the ''Strawheads'' had come from the north, and that their leader [[Freca]], a man with claims to the throne of Rohan, had been killed by [[Helm Hammerhand]].

Gríma Wormtongue played a vital role in Saruman's plans: a counsellor of the ageing king Théoden, he secretly desired the king's niece, [[Éowyn]], but she was repulsed by him and scorned his advances. It is not clear if Wormtongue approached Saruman or vice versa, but it is certain that with Saruman's council Gríma began to weaken the king, estranging him from his other councilors and even his own kin, until Gríma had in effect become the leader of Rohan.

=== Elves ===
Saruman was once on good terms with the Elves, and was voted in as the leader of the White Council, a group of Elves and Istari united against Sauron.

However, Saruman knew that Gandalf had been given the third Elvish ring [[Narya]] by [[Círdan]] the Shipwright. This nurtured his jealousy of Gandalf and his resentment towards the Elves.

The Elves also declined during the period of Saruman's activity in the west of Middle-earth. Their lands were few and secretive, and although they wielded in some senses marvellous power, they were not in the habit of projecting it in the manner Saruman found useful or interesting. Also, they succumbed less easily than other races to manipulation.

Even though his stronghold of Isengard lay very close to the Elven Kingdom of [[Lothlórien]], Saruman had very little or no contact with it. Indeed, after his treachery and ruin, Saruman stated clearly that he had never trusted [[Galadriel]] and that he suspected her of scheming for Gandalf at his expense.

In summary, Saruman had little use for, or interest in, the Elves.

=== Istari/[[Wizards]] ===
Saruman grudgingly brought with him Radagast as a companion from Valinor, at the request of [[Yavanna]], yet still managed to arrive alone, and first. Shortly after, he went into the East with the two Blue Wizards ([[Alatar]] and [[Pallando]]), and later returned alone. The Ithryn Luin (as the Elves called them) went with Saruman into the East, and there may have wrought many great works to diminish the influence of the Enemy. Of their fate little is known.

Radagast, even though Saruman scorned him (when he tried to convert Gandalf to his cause), served Saruman very usefully (and wholly unintentionally). Not only in the sense explained to Gandalf, "he had just the wit to play the part I set him"—that of persuading Gandalf to come to Isengard, but also because Radagast, at the request of Saruman (and Gandalf), sent birds to Saruman at Orthanc and to Gandalf to report the different happenings in Middle-earth (in this way Saruman gained valuable insight and Gandalf was able to escape from the pinnacle of Orthanc). Radagast, honest and noble, true to his mission as set by Yavanna, played a very valuable role in the fight against Sauron through the use of the birds and beasts of Middle-earth (i.e. the aid of the Eagles).

Saruman had always been jealous of Gandalf, and suspected him of keeping secrets from him—not unfounded suspicions, since Gandalf did indeed keep his knowledge (or early on, suspicion) about [[One Ring|Bilbo's Ring]] hidden. Gandalf also kept his own ring (the third of the Elvish rings) Narya secret.

Gandalf also suspected Saruman of plotting to gain the One Ring for himself, and hinted at this in a powerful scene at a meeting of the White Council. Gandalf blew nine small smoke rings and one great one that wavered a bit, seeming almost palpable, and yet blew away, symbolizing (almost prophetic of) Saruman's failure in achieving the One for himself.

In general, Saruman must have viewed Gandalf as his only peer, and as such to be feared and treated with (although not necessarily shown) respect. He always kept a watchful eye open for Gandalf's doings, and actually picked up the habit of smoking pipe-weed by sending out spies tailing Gandalf to the Shire.

When matters came to a head, Saruman sought to make Gandalf an ally in his plans. This was probably not just out of practical politics, but also of respect and a sense of companionship and shared destiny. And possibly out of hope, being daunted by the proposition of becoming Sauron's servant alone.

Nevertheless, Saruman exercised more power than Gandalf, even with the ring Narya, as became clear when he placed Gandalf under arrest at the pinnacle of Orthanc. The text does not make it clear whether Saruman lost power or whether Gandalf gained power, but when Gandalf returned as "Gandalf the White", he could summon Saruman at his will, forcibly keep him in his presence, and finally break Saruman's staff (with whatever implications that might have had for Saruman's powers).

Saruman several times came very close to setting aside his pride and to asking Gandalf for pity and help. The closest call came when the [[Ringwraiths]] (on their way to the Shire) arrived at Isengard while Gandalf still remained in captivity there. Saruman, realizing his predicament, actually went to seek Gandalf's pardon, only to find his erstwhile captive missing from the top of Orthanc.

=== Orcs ===
Saruman probably drew his original strength of Orcs from tribes in the [[Misty Mountains]], and perhaps from Moria Orcs. He made use of [[Wargs|Warg]]-mounted Orcs of the same kind that Bilbo and the dwarves fled from after they had been captured at the [[High Pass]] near [[Rivendell]].

He also bred Orcs in Isengard, eventually creating crossbreeds of Orcs and Men (probably [[Dunland|Dunlendings]]), the [[Uruk-hai]]. This programme apparently also involved feeding these Orcs Man-flesh.

His Uruk-hai army displayed great discipline and fierce loyalty, in addition to the other improvements such as height, strength, endurance and resistance to sunlight. There also appears to have been middle stages between Men and the Uruk-hai, Men with varying degrees of Orkish appearance. These were reported by Pippin and Merry to have been part of Saruman's regular army, but were not Uruk-hai, since the hobbits would have recognized these from their earlier capture.

Saruman's servants called him "Sharkey" both in Isengard and later in The Shire. This was probably an adaptation of the [[Black Speech]] word ''sharku'' which meant "old man". Saruman was not aware of this meaning (which is remarkable, since Gandalf knew this language). Perhaps he took it as a distortion of his own name by the Orcs. This indicates that the Orcs took their leader less seriously than they might have given him the impression of (similar to how the Mordor Orcs overheard by Sam and Frodo tended to disrespect their authorities).

=== Ents/Trees ===
Saruman made contact with the Ents in [[Fangorn Forest]] shortly after he settled in [[Isengard]]. The oldest of the Ents, [[Treebeard]] received him and gave him free access to the forest.

Saruman also consulted with Treebeard, learning much old lore that the Ents would have remembered from ancient times. Saruman did not return this favour, but only listened.

The Ents saw Saruman's treachery early, and became very concerned, primarily with Saruman's Orcs felling trees on the edge of Fangorn for use in the furnaces of Isengard—or sometimes for no reason at all.

The Ents also appear to have had a sense of order, how things should be, that Saruman encroached upon. The crossbreeding of Men and Orcs particularly alarmed them, out of proportion to other concerns enemies of Saruman might have had. Also alarming was the pure fact of his treachery — the Istari were supposed to have a special responsibility.

Saruman used the Ents and the Fangorn forest without concern for the consequences. He clearly misjudged the Ents' abilities and will to act. This might not have been as incautious as it seemed, since major contributing factors to the Ent's actions were advice and requests from Gandalf, and concern about the rising power of Sauron (and their wish to support the front-line troops of the war, Rohan and Gondor).

Saruman clearly had the ability to understand the minds of the Ents when he found it useful. He managed to talk Treebeard into setting him free from Orthanc by pushing just the right buttons — Ents dislike the concept of caging up any creature.

=== Hobbits ===
The race of [[Hobbits]] and their lands seemed too insignificant to interest Saruman: until he took notice of Gandalf's special concern for them.

His secret interest in Gandalf's doings made him focus gradually more and more on the Hobbits and The Shire. For a period he actually travelled there in secret, mapping out the lands. Gandalf was aware of this, but at this point only amused.

He began smoking pipe-weed (a habit of the Hobbits that Gandalf had picked up), also in secret. His demand for tobacco opened up trading between The Shire and Isengard, and the power his money could wield there and the corruption it could cause began to fascinate him. Some of his agents went in secret, and some were known to Gandalf and the [[Rangers]] (who accepted them, but were suspicious).

His anger towards the Hobbits may possibly stem from the attention Gandalf showed them (and not himself, or his projects). It certainly strengthened immensely when he discovered that the Hobbits (to his mind) had conspired with Gandalf to keep the [[One Ring]] from him.

This, and the sudden urgency caused by the [[Ringwraiths]]' hunt for the Ring-bearer from The Shire to Rivendell, made him increase his activity in the area, leading to a build-up of power that would by the closing of the [[War of the Ring]] lead to virtual conquest of The Shire.

He might also later have blamed the ruin of Isengard at the hands (or branches, really) of the Ents on [[Peregrin Took]] and [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]], who clearly catalysed events.

This all came together after Sauron's fall, when Saruman escaped from the Ents and retired to The Shire and his thug regime in place there. It appears he immediately switched the focus of this operation to wanton destruction: pollution, murder, fire, chopping down trees for no reason. He may have felt this would also allow him to deal a last blow to Gandalf.

At his final utter defeat by a Hobbit uprising, his life was spared even when he tried to assassinate [[Frodo Baggins]]. At this moment he actually conceded respect to Frodo, but it was (literally) short-lived.

=== Valar/Maiar ===
Saruman was supposedly eager to go to Middle-earth, against Manwë's counsel. After his 'death' he was apparently barred from returning to Valinor, and therefore was denied reincarnation and condemned to waft away and disappear like so much smoke. Sauron, in origin a Maia of Aulë like Saruman, amazed and frightened him. During the height of his arrogance Saruman thought to supplant Sauron as the Dark Lord, but in the end he found himself meddling with a spirit of far greater power than himself.

=== Animals ===
Saruman had control over many birds, probably through Radagast. These spied for him and brought him news. In addition, the Orcs Saruman took in his armies had amongst them [[Wargs]], a sort of intelligent demon-wolf.

== Portrayal in Adaptations ==
[[Image:Saruman from Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings.jpg|thumb|left|Saruman from [[Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings]]]]
In [[Ralph Bakshi]]'s 1978 animated film of ''[[Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings|The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Fraser Kerr]] provided the voice of Saruman. From early on in the production, it was decided that "Saruman" and "Sauron" sounded too much alike, and might confuse viewers. On concept art, Saruman is called "Ruman"[http://www.ralphbakshi.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=69], but prior to recording, this was changed to "Aruman". However, during recording, it was again changed, to "Saruman". Because of this late change, several instances of "Aruman" remain in the finished film.
[[Image:Saruman with Palantir from Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings.jpg|thumb|[[Christopher Lee]] as Saruman in [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]]]]
[[Peter Howell]] played Saruman in [[BBC]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|1981 radio serialisation]] of ''The Lord of the Rings''. Because the series follows a chronological timeline rather than the flashbacks of the books, Saruman's betrayal is brought out much sooner than in the book.

In [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]], Saruman was played by [[Christopher Lee]]. The film did not depict Saruman's adoption of the title "Saruman of Many Colours". The film also did not include the [[Scouring of the Shire]], but depicted Saruman being killed by Gríma Wormtongue in Isengard, after his encounter with Gandalf and Théoden. In the [[The Return of the King Extended Edition|extended edition of The Return of the King]], Gríma stabs Saruman in the back, causing him to fall on a spiked wheel below the tower of Orthanc.

== See Also ==
* [[:Category:Images of Saruman|Images of Saruman]]

{{wizards}}

{{maiar}}

[[Category:Isengard and Saruman]]
[[Category:Maiar]]
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]

[[de:Saruman]]
[[fi:Saruman]]

Tom Bombadil

2008-07-30T16:52:42Z

Ælfwine: corrected ring-bearer mistake

{{claimed}}
[[Image:Brothers Hildebrandt - Tom Bombadil.jpg|thumb|300px|''Tom Bombadil'' by [[Brothers Hildebrandt]].]]
<center>{{quote|Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless – before the Dark Lord came from Outside.|Tom Bombadil, ''[[In the House of Tom Bombadil]]''.}}</center>

'''Tom Bombadil''' is an enigma in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' and ''[[the Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''.

==Third Age==
Tom Bombadil lived on the river [[Withywindle]] in the [[Old Forest]], together with his lovely wife [[Goldberry]]. On [[September 26]], [[Third Age 3018|T.A. 3018]], he encountered [[travellers|four hobbits]] while he was searching for water-lilies for his wife. Two of those Hobbits, [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]] and [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]], had been captured by [[Old Man Willow]]. Tom, who was the master of the Old Forest, rescued them, and took all four of them to his house{{ref|1}}.

The four hobbits stayed two nights, and he told them many tales and songs. Apparently, [[Gildor Inglorion]] had been to Tom's house, as he knew the hobbits were fleeing the [[Shire]]. With cunning questions, he made [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] tell him of the [[One Ring|Ring]]. When Tom tried it on, nothing happened, and when Frodo put it on, Tom could still see him.

The following morning, Tom warned his guests of the [[Barrow Downs]], and advised them to pass any barrow on the western side. He also tought them a song, should they come to peril{{ref|2}}.

And they did come to peril. Tom chased off a [[Barrow-wight|wight]] with song, and broke the spells on the barrow in which the four hobbits were captured. While he sent the Hobbits into calm down, he went for provisions. He also brought the ponies, that had belonged to Merry. After that, he broke the spells of the barrow. From the barrow's mighty hoard, he took a brooch for Goldberry, and gave a [[Daggers of Westernesse|dagger]] to each of the hobbits. He then advised them to make for ''[[The Prancing Pony]]'' in [[Bree]]{{ref|3}}.

The peril of the hobbits was not over; an attack on their lives was carried out, and their ponies were set loose. The ponies apparently remembered the care they were given in the house of Tom Bombadil, and returned to stay beside Tom's own pony, [[Fatty Lumpkin]]. He returned them to [[Barliman Butterbur]], the proprietor of ''The Prancing Pony''. Since he had paid eighteen pence as compensation for the loss, he was now the owner of five fine ponies{{ref|4}}.

== Tom Bombadil's Nature ==
[[Image:John Howe - Tom Bombadil.jpg|thumb|left|''Tom Bombadil'' by [[John Howe]].]]
Tom Bombadil's mythological origins in the cosmology of [[Middle-earth]] have puzzled even erudite fans. Speculative ideas about his true nature range from simply a wise [[Elves|Elven]] hermit to an angelic being (a [[Maiar|Maia]] or [[Valar|Vala]]), to the creator, that is, God, who is called [[Eru Ilúvatar]] in [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s mythology. Tolkien explicitly denied this last possibility.

Tom seems to have unlimited power inside the boundaries that he set for himself. The most common theory is that Bombadil is a Maia, and perhaps the reason of why he has such powers might be the fact that he set himself limits in which he is master. "[[Eldest]], that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless – before the Dark Lord came from Outside." The Dark Lord that Bombadil refers to is probably [[Melkor]] and not [[Sauron]]. But in that case, Tom was already there even before the [[Valar]] entered the world, dismissing the theory that he is a Maia. Bombadil could be part of the [[Music of the Ainur]] and that would explain why he was there in the beginning, but if he was indeed part of the music, it is not said why he exists.

Other possibilities (compatible with the above theory) are that he is an abstract, a concept; possibly the embodiment of [[Arda]] itself, a "Father Nature" if you will, or some kind of 'spirit' which (unlike the Maiar) was of non-divine nature. Not only does the Ring have no effect on him, Tom himself seems unable to affect the Ring in return which shows that Tom was outside the divine plan and struggle and had no position in it. When Goldberry was asked by [[Frodo Baggins]] who he was, she simply said "He is". This is echoed by the following excerpt from Tom's songs:

==Etymology and other names==
Tom Bombadil went by many names:
* ''Tom Bombadil'' is said to be a [[Buckland|Bucklandish]] name, added by Hobbit chroniclers to his many older ones. It is, like many names of the Bucklanders, untranslatable{{ref|5}}.
* To the [[Elves]] and [[Dúnedain]], he was known as ''Iarwain Ben-adar'', which translated to "oldest and fatherless"{{ref|6}}.
* To [[Men]] (of [[Rohan]] and [[Bree]]), he was known as ''Orald''. This is an Old English word meaning "very ancient{{ref|7}}.
* The Dwarves knew him as ''Forn''. This too is a reference too his age: it is Old Norse for "(belonging to) ancient (days)"{{ref|8}}. In some imprints of ''[[The History of Middle-earth Index]]'', this name was accidentally spelled with a "P" as the first letter{{ref|9}}.

==Portrayal in Adaptions==
[[Image:BFME2 - Tom Bombadil 03.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Tom Bombadil, as he appeared in ''[[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'']]
One of the few things known about the [[The Lord of the Rings (1956 radio series)|1956 radio series]] of ''The Lord of the Rings'' is that [[Norman Shelley]] voiced him, and Tolkien thought his portrayal "dreadful". [[Goldberry]] was portrayed as his daughter, rather than his wife{{ref|10}}.

In [[Mind's Eye]]'s [[1979]] [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|radio series]] of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Bernard Mayes]] voiced Tom Bombadil.

He was deleted from the [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|1981 radio series]], [[Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings|Ralph Bakshi's movie]] and [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings|Peter Jackson's movies]]. He contributed little to the storyline. The obtaining of the [[Daggers of Westernesse|Barrow-blades]] is omitted or retold in all. [[Brian Sibley]] deeply regretted cutting him from the radio series{{ref|11}}, and included the "deleted scenes" as the episode "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" in the [[1992]] [[Tales from the Perilous Realm (1992 radio series)|''Tales from the Perilous Realm'' radio series]]. He is voiced by [[Ian Hogg]].

In the Recorded Books Inc recorded book that [[Rob Inglis]] narrated, he sang Tom's songs in a rollicking Scottish style.

In the [[2001]] video game ''[[Vivendi's The Fellowship of the Ring (game)|The Fellowship of the Ring]]'' by [[Vivendi]], Tom Bombadil was voiced by [[Daran Norris]]. Here, he is also portrayed with a Scottish accent, though not as rollicking as Inglis'.

Bombadil is a character in ''[[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II]]''. Unlike his nature in the book, he is shown strong and battleready, and plows through enemy lines whilst merrily singing. His most powerful weapon is a "Sonic Song", and all his other weapons are inspired by song and dance.

==Inspiration==
Tom Bombadil may have been inspired by the character Väinämöinen (spelt 'Wainamoinen' in English) in the Finnish national epic [[Kalevala]], or Father [[Francis Xavier Morgan]] at the [[Birmingham Oratory]]:
{{quote|...… Father Francis Xavier Morgan, then aged forty-three, who shortly after the Tolkiens moved into the district [Edgbaston] took over the duties of parish priest and came to call. In him Mabel soon found not only a sympathetic priest but a valuable friend. Half Welsh and half Anglo-Spanish (his mother’s family were prominent in the sherry trade), Francis Morgan was '''not a man of great intellect, but he had an immense fund of kindness and humour and a flamboyance''' that was often attributed to his Spanish connections. Indeed '''he was a very noisy man, loud and affectionate, embarrassing to small children at first but hugely lovable when they got to know him.'''|[[J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography]]}}

{{sequence|prev=[[Frodo Baggins]]|next=[[Frodo Baggins]]|list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br>[[September 26]], <code>III</code> 3018 (briefly)}}<br/>

==See also==
*[[:Category:Images of Tom Bombadil|Images of Tom Bombadil]]

==References==
<div style="font-size: 80%">
# {{note|1}} ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', [[The Old Forest]]
# {{note|2}} ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', [[In the House of Tom Bombadil]]
# {{note|3}} ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', [[Fog on the Barrow-downs]]
# {{note|4}} ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', [[A Knife in the Dark]]
# {{note|5}} ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]'', Preface
# {{note|6}} ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', [[The Council of Elrond]]
# {{note|7}} [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], "[[Nomenclature of The Lord of the Rings]]", published in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]] (by [[Wayne G. Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull]]), page 761.
# {{note|8}} [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], "[[Nomenclature of The Lord of the Rings]]", published in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]] (by [[Wayne G. Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull]]), page 761.
# {{note|9}} ''[[The History of Middle-earth: Index]]'', "Tom Bombadil (VII)", page 435 <small>([[HarperCollins]] [[2000]] Paperback)</small>
# {{note|10}} ''[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]'', [[Letter 175]] ([[November 30]], [[1955]])
# {{note|11}} [[Brian Sibley]], ''[http://briansibleytheworks.blogspot.com/2008/01/this-page-is-still-under-construction_23.html The Ring Goes Ever On]''
</div>
== External Links ==
* [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/t/tombombadil.html Entry in the Encyclopedia of Arda] (a concise overview of the discussion)
* [http://tolkien.slimy.com/essays/Bombadil.html ''What is Tom Bombadil?''] by Steuard Jensen (a detailed explanation)
* [http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html ''Who is Tom Bombadil?''] by Gene Hargrove (a somewhat unorthodox but well-presented essay)
* [http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/4786/76065 Count, Count, Weigh, Divide] discusses Tom Bombadil's moral aspects at length

[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Ring-bearers]]
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]

User talk:Ederchil

2008-07-23T22:28:25Z

Ælfwine:

'''{{PAGENAME}}, welcome!'''

Hello and [[Tolkien Gateway:Welcome|welcome]] to '''[[Tolkien Gateway:About|Tolkien Gateway]]'''. I hope you like the place and choose to join our work. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
*Internal pages:
**[[Tolkien Gateway:To-do|To-do list]]
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**[[Special:Recentchanges|Recent changes]]
*External Wikipedia pages:
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:How to edit a page|How to edit a page]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Tutorial|Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Picture tutorial|Picture tutorial]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:How to write a great article|How to write a great article]]

I hope you enjoy editing here and we look forward to your future edits. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~<nowiki>~~</nowiki>. Four tildes (~~<nowiki>~~</nowiki>) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the [[Tolkien Gateway:Help|help pages]], add a question to the [[Forum:Council|Council forums]] or ask me on [[User talk:Hyarion|my talk page]]. Keep up the great work! — [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]

== MinasTirith.com: antwoord ==
Niet ver van uw domicilie; 'k kom bij tijd en wijle wel in Grunn' :-) ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 14:57, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:'k Hoop niet dat je te veel verwacht van dat schotschrift van Uyldert. 't Is om te huilen! ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 16:34, 6 March 2008 (EST)

::'k Kan me niet herinneren, dat ik em gezien heb, toen ik er laatst was, maar 'k zag wel vlekken voor de ogen, toen ik bij de Tolkienia stond! ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 12:30, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Chat ==

Hey there Ederchil, I just thought I'd let you know about the [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|IRC chat]], feel free to join if you ever feel like it, there's at least a couple MinasTirith.com members (Ardamir, Halion, Mith, myself) or wiki editors usually on. We're hoping soon there will be enough interest so we can setup weekly meetings to discuss the wiki. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:26, 27 January 2008 (EST)

:I'm not really a chatter, but I'll try and figure it out. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 09:07, 28 January 2008 (EST)

== Events ==

You've been doing a great job with the year articles, they're looking so much better now. One thing that's been on my mind is how we can store the data more efficiently. For instance I've started creating articles such as [[January 1]] which will list all the events that have ocurred on January 1st both on Earth and on Arda. Then we can include these articles into the [[Main Page]] to see what happened today. I haven't quite figured out the best layout for the page, since we'll want to easily include these. Also, I think we can probably be more specific as to what the Fellowship of the Ring was doing on that day. Like if there isn't any specific event on that day, we can just say they were traveling from X to X or something.

For now I guess we'll just have to manually type things in both year and day articles, but in the future it would be nice if we could type up the event in one location and the other articles include that data somehow, I haven't figured out how to get that to work yet. It would be nice if we could display events by type too, like publication, birth, death, etc. Just thought I'd let you know what's going through my head :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:I had a similar thing in my head :). I planned to propose such a thing after I've finished the year-articles (long way from finished, still got 1921-1970 to go). -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:29, 29 January 2008 (EST)

::Okay, checked it out. We need a disambig on [[May]], though. Now it leads to the Hobbit. Maybe make the titles [[May (month)]] and so for every month? And perhaps a subheader, "In the Calendar of Imladris/Shire Calendar/King's Reckoning etcetera, it is bla bla bla". -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]]

== About the Lorien Elves source ==

You asked about a source for the Lorien Elves in the Fall of Fornost page, and I have an answer. In Appendix A, page 1016 it says that Elrond brought Elves from Lorien to help fight Angmar. Even if this was a hundred years before Fornost's fall, they were probably still aiding in the fight with the other Elf-realms and Arnor by the time Fornost fell. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 14:21, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

:Okay. Just wondering. Maybe it's better if you cite the sources too, it just looks a bit more encyclopedic. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 16:42, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

I do when I remember lol. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 18:09, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== New Skin ==

Hey there Ederchil. I was just wondering what your thoughts were on the [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Gandalf&useskin=ithilien new skin]. The only thing I'm a little concerned about is the light blue background makes the text somewhat hard to read. Would you prefer keeping the content inside of a white box to look more like the [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Main%20Page&useskin=ithilien Main Page]? If you have any other suggestions just let me know, I'd also like to change the color scheme of the main page, as well as the featured article/quote/etc when we launch the new skin, kind of a Tolkien Gateway 3.0. I'm hoping to make the switch soon, I just want to make sure the majority of people see it as an improvement. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:42, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

== Brühl ==

Oh yes, the castles are very nice, which of them did you visit? ''Augustusburg'' or ''Falkenlust''?

:The big one. Don't remember what it was called. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 09:23, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

''Augustusburg''. But at the moment the terrace of the gardenside is a building lot, it doesn't look very nice. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:53, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

== Thanks ==

Hey, thanks for help with those edits on the rose cotton page. i had family over, screaming cousins and all that, couldnt really pay attention.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 12:47, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Hey, sorry about that, no, i was playing trivia on irc, sorry about that, im done multi tasking.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Stephen White ==

I know how you feel- 41 links! The way i figured it out was on user:smeagol's discussion page, hyarion asked him how he wanted to be credited as the artist of all those pictures, so I just redirected it to user:smeagol(as you can no doubt tell, dont know why I'm explaining it, just rambling I guess). And while I got you here, I was wondering if you'd like to join us in the chatrooms, its far easier to get a question on there, as hyarion, myself, and a lot of the other more frequent editors are almost always on there. Hyarion has even been trying to set up TG meetings, which youd be more than welcome to join in on. If it is about your internet connection, don't worry about that, i had slow dial-up for ages before finally getting hi-speed internet and was able to use the java clients with ease. Anyway, thats how I solved that problem, and I hope you join us soon.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 11:50, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:My internet's good - in fact, it's the envy of this house because I'm the closest of six d-links to the transmitter-watchamacallit, almost rocksteady at 54 mb/s. I've tried the chatroom a couple of times, but it doesn't always work. And when I'm in, there's nobody home. Probably because there's half a globe between me and Hyarion. I'll try it now. Okay. I'm in. Never been this in before, to be fair. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 13:02, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Unify? ==

Hey, hmmm... I looked it up and in the online dictionary was the entry ''to unify sth.'' = ''etw. vereinheitlichen''. I want to say, that Carroux doesn't transfer the different levels of language, used by the characters very good in her translation. I'm sorry, if my English isn't every time so good, I mean for me it is a foreign language.

Maybe ''to standardise'' is a better verb? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 11:35, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

:Simplify? -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 12:28, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

I think ''to standardise'' is the right word for my intended meaning. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 12:54, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

== Redirections of alternative names ==

Goeienavond, Ederchil!

I notice you have recently been redirecting some new lemmata<sup>[http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Telpeross%C3%AB&diff=60937&oldid=60936 [1]][http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Zigil-n%C3%A2d&diff=60899&oldid=38204 [2]]</sup> on alternative (or rejected) names to the commonly used names. I have no problem with that (but remember [[Forum:English_vs._Tolkien_language_entries|this]], Zigil-nâd might have some etymology). However, the lemmata to which you've been redirecting don't mention the alternative name at all, so that any reader who is no expert will only wonder why he has been redirected, and will be none the wiser on the alternative name. So I have taken the liberty of incorporating the minimally necessary information you threw out on redirection to the main lemmata in question. I've also added talk to both pages based on your diff comments.

Maybe in future it would be better to make sure the redirected name is actually mentioned in the article redirected to.

Hoop dat je je daarin kunt vinden. -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 12:43, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

:Mee eens; Zigil-nâd is, zeker ten aanzien van de Zirak/Zigil discussie, het invoegen waard. Maar ik wil er op wijzen dat Telperossë '''nergens''' in de boeken voorkomt (het zou bovendien *Tyelperossë of *Tyeleprossë moeten zijn), zelfs niet in The Problem of Ros. Ik heb het bovendien gegoogled; een fanfic-personage, verder niets.

:Oh, stik. In English: Yes, agree. Considering the Zirak/zigil discussion (not really well covered here, tbf) it is wirth inclusion. Telperossë (incorrect Q form) is however nothing more than a fanfic character; it does not appear in Tolkien's writings, not even The Problem of Ros. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 14:04, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

::Wat mij betreft kan Telperossë dan weg.
::If you want to remove Telperossë from the Celebros info box and nominate the redirected lemma for deletion, go ahead, and I'll support you.
::I've meanwhile put [[Ramas Echor]]<sup>[http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ramas_Echor&diff=61521&oldid=61473 [1]]</sup> through the same treatment - put the good bits of what 'Arwen Legolas Wilson' wrote in [[Rammas Echor]], put my reasons for not including the rest in the Talk there, and proposed the typo for speedy deletion. -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 17:03, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Gezelli hoor, Nederlanders onder elkaar ;-)
:::[[User:Mithrennaith|Mith]] wrote: ''nominate the redirected lemma for deletion''. I'd rather say: don't delete the redirected lemma, but rewrite it in stating that [[Telperossë]] is a fanfic name and not to be found in [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien's]] works. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 03:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

::::Gezelli zeker. Ik heb Telperossë niet teruggevonden als naam voor de rivier, maar voor een personage in een [http://www.elfwood.com/art/l/a/lana965/telperosse_argenino.jpg.html fanfic]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:35, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

:::::Maybe one fanfic reference is indeed a bit too shallow to base a lemma on. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 03:44, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

::::::I'm in favour of deletion, then. -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 10:53, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

== Glamdring ==

Greetings, my fellow senior editor. I want to thank you for all you do and supporting our first FA since well, ''the''' ''FA'''. As the ramrod behind the new process, though I feel I have to tell you the truth. We really can't encourage self-nomination, which ''is'' self-promotion. The article has all the parts required, but it is rather short. I've been watching, and it isn't gathering any support. I not going to vote against it, but you should consider withdrawing this nomination for the time being. I have another article in mind that is a stronger candidate.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 19:19, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:I know it isn't very long... but featured doesn't mean long, it means good. Glamdring is obviously not the best - I don't even like it yet. I'm still waiting on some sources to come in, and the "fate" section could do with some expansion (though it's going to be tricky to find other theories on the matter). Maybe the nomination was a bit premature?
:If the other article is Witch-king of Angmar, that one has my vote on it. TBF, I prefer it over Aragorn. But we need to create a pool of FA's, which don't necessarily need to be articles about major characters. Since we are an all-things-to-do-with-Tolkien encyclopedia, that could (should?) be reflected in FA's. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 02:56, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

== TolkienNews ==

Greetings and thank you for the welcome message!

I checked the "To-Do list" and this came to my atention:

"Decide on a slogan for TolkienNews.net. And maybe a new title? Tolkien Times?"

How about bringing some news into TolkienNews? :) Tolkien Times sounds good, but the last article there is from December2007. If updated more often, I think the site would be awesome, since it's one of the few (on Tolkien) who have RSS News Feed (basically it's TolkienNews, TheOneRing and Elfenomeno who are accurate and have RSS...at least that's what I've found so far).

All the best! :)

Þelma

:For everything admin-like, check [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]. My bad that your welcome message links here. As for Tolkiennews, it's undergoing renovation. I think.
:So, ask Hyarion. He's in charge, he usually does the welcoming. Take in mind that he lives in California, so don't expect an immediate answer. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:51, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

I wrote to Hyarion about it. Also, thank you for correcting my article and specifying the translation of Ingoldo. <br>
[[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 12:11, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

==Redirect==

Houston, we have a problem.

I did the redirection of the [[Meneldur]] page towards the [[Tar-Meneldur]] page...and it first looked like this :

From Tolkien Gateway
Redirect page
#REDIRECT Tar-Meneldur

BUT! When typing 'Meneldur' on 'Search', it leads me to the OLD Meneldur page, instead of Tar-Meneldur. Methinks I'm not doing this right. So pretty please, can you do it? ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 07:04, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

:Hmm. Works fine for me. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 12:47, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

:: Now works for me too...Weird. Anyways, good thing that it finally works. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 12:53, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Stubbing ==
Now, I know you're a knowledgeable guy, but you could at least let the ink dry on the [[Second Battle of Dagorlad]] before you jumped on it. It's only a stub, dude. Hold your fire for a little while during construction, OK?--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 15:43, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

:Sorry. I'm feeling a bit impatient today. And maybe a bit bossy. It's all yours. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:49, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

== Annatar and Glorfindel ==
Hello :) I hope it's alright to put this here. I just wanted to thank you for the Annatar edit, the page looks much better now!
The Glorfindel drawing you mentioned, is it this one? http://www.bohemianweasel.com/Portfolio/PortfolioLotR37WGlorfindel.htm
If so, please feel free to take it if you can use it somewhere. :) xx
-- [[User:Bohwe|Bohwe]] 16:13, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Hey, just a little question, is that new Glorfindel pic really better than the old old one at http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Image:BFME2_-_Glorfindel.jpg ?[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:28, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

User talk:Ederchil

2008-07-23T22:28:01Z

Ælfwine:

'''{{PAGENAME}}, welcome!'''

Hello and [[Tolkien Gateway:Welcome|welcome]] to '''[[Tolkien Gateway:About|Tolkien Gateway]]'''. I hope you like the place and choose to join our work. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
*Internal pages:
**[[Tolkien Gateway:To-do|To-do list]]
**[[Forum:Council|Council forums]]
**[[Special:Recentchanges|Recent changes]]
*External Wikipedia pages:
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:How to edit a page|How to edit a page]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Tutorial|Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Picture tutorial|Picture tutorial]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:How to write a great article|How to write a great article]]

I hope you enjoy editing here and we look forward to your future edits. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~<nowiki>~~</nowiki>. Four tildes (~~<nowiki>~~</nowiki>) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the [[Tolkien Gateway:Help|help pages]], add a question to the [[Forum:Council|Council forums]] or ask me on [[User talk:Hyarion|my talk page]]. Keep up the great work! — [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]

== MinasTirith.com: antwoord ==
Niet ver van uw domicilie; 'k kom bij tijd en wijle wel in Grunn' :-) ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 14:57, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:'k Hoop niet dat je te veel verwacht van dat schotschrift van Uyldert. 't Is om te huilen! ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 16:34, 6 March 2008 (EST)

::'k Kan me niet herinneren, dat ik em gezien heb, toen ik er laatst was, maar 'k zag wel vlekken voor de ogen, toen ik bij de Tolkienia stond! ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 12:30, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Chat ==

Hey there Ederchil, I just thought I'd let you know about the [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|IRC chat]], feel free to join if you ever feel like it, there's at least a couple MinasTirith.com members (Ardamir, Halion, Mith, myself) or wiki editors usually on. We're hoping soon there will be enough interest so we can setup weekly meetings to discuss the wiki. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:26, 27 January 2008 (EST)

:I'm not really a chatter, but I'll try and figure it out. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 09:07, 28 January 2008 (EST)

== Events ==

You've been doing a great job with the year articles, they're looking so much better now. One thing that's been on my mind is how we can store the data more efficiently. For instance I've started creating articles such as [[January 1]] which will list all the events that have ocurred on January 1st both on Earth and on Arda. Then we can include these articles into the [[Main Page]] to see what happened today. I haven't quite figured out the best layout for the page, since we'll want to easily include these. Also, I think we can probably be more specific as to what the Fellowship of the Ring was doing on that day. Like if there isn't any specific event on that day, we can just say they were traveling from X to X or something.

For now I guess we'll just have to manually type things in both year and day articles, but in the future it would be nice if we could type up the event in one location and the other articles include that data somehow, I haven't figured out how to get that to work yet. It would be nice if we could display events by type too, like publication, birth, death, etc. Just thought I'd let you know what's going through my head :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:I had a similar thing in my head :). I planned to propose such a thing after I've finished the year-articles (long way from finished, still got 1921-1970 to go). -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:29, 29 January 2008 (EST)

::Okay, checked it out. We need a disambig on [[May]], though. Now it leads to the Hobbit. Maybe make the titles [[May (month)]] and so for every month? And perhaps a subheader, "In the Calendar of Imladris/Shire Calendar/King's Reckoning etcetera, it is bla bla bla". -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]]

== About the Lorien Elves source ==

You asked about a source for the Lorien Elves in the Fall of Fornost page, and I have an answer. In Appendix A, page 1016 it says that Elrond brought Elves from Lorien to help fight Angmar. Even if this was a hundred years before Fornost's fall, they were probably still aiding in the fight with the other Elf-realms and Arnor by the time Fornost fell. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 14:21, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

:Okay. Just wondering. Maybe it's better if you cite the sources too, it just looks a bit more encyclopedic. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 16:42, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

I do when I remember lol. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 18:09, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== New Skin ==

Hey there Ederchil. I was just wondering what your thoughts were on the [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Gandalf&useskin=ithilien new skin]. The only thing I'm a little concerned about is the light blue background makes the text somewhat hard to read. Would you prefer keeping the content inside of a white box to look more like the [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Main%20Page&useskin=ithilien Main Page]? If you have any other suggestions just let me know, I'd also like to change the color scheme of the main page, as well as the featured article/quote/etc when we launch the new skin, kind of a Tolkien Gateway 3.0. I'm hoping to make the switch soon, I just want to make sure the majority of people see it as an improvement. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:42, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

== Brühl ==

Oh yes, the castles are very nice, which of them did you visit? ''Augustusburg'' or ''Falkenlust''?

:The big one. Don't remember what it was called. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 09:23, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

''Augustusburg''. But at the moment the terrace of the gardenside is a building lot, it doesn't look very nice. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:53, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

== Thanks ==

Hey, thanks for help with those edits on the rose cotton page. i had family over, screaming cousins and all that, couldnt really pay attention.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 12:47, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Hey, sorry about that, no, i was playing trivia on irc, sorry about that, im done multi tasking.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Stephen White ==

I know how you feel- 41 links! The way i figured it out was on user:smeagol's discussion page, hyarion asked him how he wanted to be credited as the artist of all those pictures, so I just redirected it to user:smeagol(as you can no doubt tell, dont know why I'm explaining it, just rambling I guess). And while I got you here, I was wondering if you'd like to join us in the chatrooms, its far easier to get a question on there, as hyarion, myself, and a lot of the other more frequent editors are almost always on there. Hyarion has even been trying to set up TG meetings, which youd be more than welcome to join in on. If it is about your internet connection, don't worry about that, i had slow dial-up for ages before finally getting hi-speed internet and was able to use the java clients with ease. Anyway, thats how I solved that problem, and I hope you join us soon.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 11:50, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:My internet's good - in fact, it's the envy of this house because I'm the closest of six d-links to the transmitter-watchamacallit, almost rocksteady at 54 mb/s. I've tried the chatroom a couple of times, but it doesn't always work. And when I'm in, there's nobody home. Probably because there's half a globe between me and Hyarion. I'll try it now. Okay. I'm in. Never been this in before, to be fair. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 13:02, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Unify? ==

Hey, hmmm... I looked it up and in the online dictionary was the entry ''to unify sth.'' = ''etw. vereinheitlichen''. I want to say, that Carroux doesn't transfer the different levels of language, used by the characters very good in her translation. I'm sorry, if my English isn't every time so good, I mean for me it is a foreign language.

Maybe ''to standardise'' is a better verb? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 11:35, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

:Simplify? -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 12:28, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

I think ''to standardise'' is the right word for my intended meaning. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 12:54, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

== Redirections of alternative names ==

Goeienavond, Ederchil!

I notice you have recently been redirecting some new lemmata<sup>[http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Telpeross%C3%AB&diff=60937&oldid=60936 [1]][http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Zigil-n%C3%A2d&diff=60899&oldid=38204 [2]]</sup> on alternative (or rejected) names to the commonly used names. I have no problem with that (but remember [[Forum:English_vs._Tolkien_language_entries|this]], Zigil-nâd might have some etymology). However, the lemmata to which you've been redirecting don't mention the alternative name at all, so that any reader who is no expert will only wonder why he has been redirected, and will be none the wiser on the alternative name. So I have taken the liberty of incorporating the minimally necessary information you threw out on redirection to the main lemmata in question. I've also added talk to both pages based on your diff comments.

Maybe in future it would be better to make sure the redirected name is actually mentioned in the article redirected to.

Hoop dat je je daarin kunt vinden. -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 12:43, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

:Mee eens; Zigil-nâd is, zeker ten aanzien van de Zirak/Zigil discussie, het invoegen waard. Maar ik wil er op wijzen dat Telperossë '''nergens''' in de boeken voorkomt (het zou bovendien *Tyelperossë of *Tyeleprossë moeten zijn), zelfs niet in The Problem of Ros. Ik heb het bovendien gegoogled; een fanfic-personage, verder niets.

:Oh, stik. In English: Yes, agree. Considering the Zirak/zigil discussion (not really well covered here, tbf) it is wirth inclusion. Telperossë (incorrect Q form) is however nothing more than a fanfic character; it does not appear in Tolkien's writings, not even The Problem of Ros. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 14:04, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

::Wat mij betreft kan Telperossë dan weg.
::If you want to remove Telperossë from the Celebros info box and nominate the redirected lemma for deletion, go ahead, and I'll support you.
::I've meanwhile put [[Ramas Echor]]<sup>[http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ramas_Echor&diff=61521&oldid=61473 [1]]</sup> through the same treatment - put the good bits of what 'Arwen Legolas Wilson' wrote in [[Rammas Echor]], put my reasons for not including the rest in the Talk there, and proposed the typo for speedy deletion. -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 17:03, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Gezelli hoor, Nederlanders onder elkaar ;-)
:::[[User:Mithrennaith|Mith]] wrote: ''nominate the redirected lemma for deletion''. I'd rather say: don't delete the redirected lemma, but rewrite it in stating that [[Telperossë]] is a fanfic name and not to be found in [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien's]] works. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 03:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

::::Gezelli zeker. Ik heb Telperossë niet teruggevonden als naam voor de rivier, maar voor een personage in een [http://www.elfwood.com/art/l/a/lana965/telperosse_argenino.jpg.html fanfic]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:35, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

:::::Maybe one fanfic reference is indeed a bit too shallow to base a lemma on. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 03:44, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

::::::I'm in favour of deletion, then. -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 10:53, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

== Glamdring ==

Greetings, my fellow senior editor. I want to thank you for all you do and supporting our first FA since well, ''the''' ''FA'''. As the ramrod behind the new process, though I feel I have to tell you the truth. We really can't encourage self-nomination, which ''is'' self-promotion. The article has all the parts required, but it is rather short. I've been watching, and it isn't gathering any support. I not going to vote against it, but you should consider withdrawing this nomination for the time being. I have another article in mind that is a stronger candidate.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 19:19, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:I know it isn't very long... but featured doesn't mean long, it means good. Glamdring is obviously not the best - I don't even like it yet. I'm still waiting on some sources to come in, and the "fate" section could do with some expansion (though it's going to be tricky to find other theories on the matter). Maybe the nomination was a bit premature?
:If the other article is Witch-king of Angmar, that one has my vote on it. TBF, I prefer it over Aragorn. But we need to create a pool of FA's, which don't necessarily need to be articles about major characters. Since we are an all-things-to-do-with-Tolkien encyclopedia, that could (should?) be reflected in FA's. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 02:56, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

== TolkienNews ==

Greetings and thank you for the welcome message!

I checked the "To-Do list" and this came to my atention:

"Decide on a slogan for TolkienNews.net. And maybe a new title? Tolkien Times?"

How about bringing some news into TolkienNews? :) Tolkien Times sounds good, but the last article there is from December2007. If updated more often, I think the site would be awesome, since it's one of the few (on Tolkien) who have RSS News Feed (basically it's TolkienNews, TheOneRing and Elfenomeno who are accurate and have RSS...at least that's what I've found so far).

All the best! :)

Þelma

:For everything admin-like, check [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]. My bad that your welcome message links here. As for Tolkiennews, it's undergoing renovation. I think.
:So, ask Hyarion. He's in charge, he usually does the welcoming. Take in mind that he lives in California, so don't expect an immediate answer. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:51, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

I wrote to Hyarion about it. Also, thank you for correcting my article and specifying the translation of Ingoldo. <br>
[[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 12:11, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

==Redirect==

Houston, we have a problem.

I did the redirection of the [[Meneldur]] page towards the [[Tar-Meneldur]] page...and it first looked like this :

From Tolkien Gateway
Redirect page
#REDIRECT Tar-Meneldur

BUT! When typing 'Meneldur' on 'Search', it leads me to the OLD Meneldur page, instead of Tar-Meneldur. Methinks I'm not doing this right. So pretty please, can you do it? ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 07:04, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

:Hmm. Works fine for me. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 12:47, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

:: Now works for me too...Weird. Anyways, good thing that it finally works. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 12:53, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Stubbing ==
Now, I know you're a knowledgeable guy, but you could at least let the ink dry on the [[Second Battle of Dagorlad]] before you jumped on it. It's only a stub, dude. Hold your fire for a little while during construction, OK?--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 15:43, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

:Sorry. I'm feeling a bit impatient today. And maybe a bit bossy. It's all yours. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:49, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

== Annatar and Glorfindel ==
Hello :) I hope it's alright to put this here. I just wanted to thank you for the Annatar edit, the page looks much better now!
The Glorfindel drawing you mentioned, is it this one? http://www.bohemianweasel.com/Portfolio/PortfolioLotR37WGlorfindel.htm
If so, please feel free to take it if you can use it somewhere. :) xx
-- [[User:Bohwe|Bohwe]] 16:13, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
Hey, just a little question, is that new Glorfindel pic really better than the old old one at http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Image:BFME2_-_Glorfindel.jpg ?[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:28, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Palantíri

2008-07-22T20:42:38Z

Ælfwine:

After I edited this article, I discovered that, in the [[:Category:Palantíri]], five of the seven (and the "[[Masterstone]]") have already been given articles, under different names than I gave. I know Tolkien has a writing somewhere specifically about the ''palantíri'', but I can't remember where it is. My question is this: what does Tolkien call the individual stones in the texts? --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 17:10, 14 January 2008 (EST)
:I don't know the answer to your question, but the writing is found at the end of Unfinished Tales [[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 16:42, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

Quenta Silmarillion

2008-07-21T16:25:56Z

Ælfwine: added chapters template

{{silmarillion-chapters}}
'''''Quenta Silmarillion''''' is the third part of ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]. ''Quenta Silmarillion'' is translated as the "Tale of the Silmarils". The part is the longest in the book, consisting of more than twenty chapters.

''Quenta Silmarillion'' deals with the history of [[Arda]] following the entrance of the [[Ainur]] as the [[Valar]] (see ''[[Valaquenta]]''). After the Valar's entrance, Arda was still lifeless and had no distinct geographical features. The initial shape of Arda, chosen by the Valar, was of a symmetrical continent lit by two lamps: one in the continent's north, and one in the south. However the lamps were destroyed by the vicious [[Melkor]]. Arda was again darkened, and the lamps' fall spoiled the perfect symmetry of Arda's surface. Two main continents were created that are of concern to the story: [[Aman]] on the far West, and [[Middle-earth]] to the East, over the Great Ocean.

Following this, Melkor hid himself from the Valar in an enormous fortress, [[Utumno]]. He also surrounded himself with horrible beasts, many of them [[Maiar]] in the form of fell animals, known as [[Balrogs]]. Balrogs were to remain his most faithful servants and soldiers ever after.

The Valar then made for themselves a home at the utmost West, upon Aman. Then the Valar began to reshape Arda yet again, making it habitable and preparing it for the coming of the [[Children of Ilúvatar]]: [[Elves]] and [[Men]]. However everywhere they went, Melkor followed them spoiling the fruit of their labour and damaging their achievements. Thus, the whole Arda was marred by Melkor's anger, envy and lust of power.

Utumno did not protect Melkor, however. He was taken prisoner and sentenced to three ages (about 9,000 years) of imprisonment. Utumno was laid bare; but all its evil was not destroyed. Before Melkor was taken captive, Arda witnessed the [[Awakening of the Elves]], the first-born Children of Ilùvatar. Elves are described as anthropomorphic beings, who, however, are immortal and possess many virtues (beauty, health, ability to communicate with nature), beyond the share of Men. The Elves were met by the Valar and invited to join them in the West; however Melkor managed to reach some of the Elves even earlier. It is said that from them he bred the hideous race of [[Orcs]] whom both he and his follower [[Sauron]] used as soldiers.

Some of the Elves refused to go westward. They became known as the [[Avari]]. Two houses of the Elves, the [[Vanyar]] and the [[Noldor]] crossed the [[Great Sea]] with the help of the Valar. A third house, called the [[Teleri]] lingered on the eastern shore of the Great Sea and in the west of Middle-earth. Although many of the Teleri eventually crossed the Great Sea after they were taught by the Valar how to make ships, some Teleri remained in Middle Earth. These latter are termed [[Sindar]] (See: [[Sundering of the Elves]]).

At some time between the imprisonment of Melkor and his release, the Valar created the Two Trees, [[Laurelin]] and [[Telperion]], which filled Arda with light.

There arose a mighty Elf among the house of Noldor, named [[Fëanor]]. Fëanor was skilled in crafts and his greatest achievement has been the making of three wonderful jewels, the [[Silmarils]]. The Silmarils contained the light of the Two Trees of Valinor (as the land of the Valar was known).

By that time Melkor's captivity was over. However he returned to evil quickly. Through a vicious design he managed to destroy the Two Trees and to steal the Silmarils. Then he fled eastward, to the [[Middle-earth]].

The furious Fëanor followed Melkor (whom he re-named [[Morgoth]]). This was done against the will of the Valar, and during Fëanor's flight he slew many of the Teleri, over their refusal to lend him their ships ([[First Kinslaying]]). For this he and his followers were forbidden to approach Aman ever again. However Fëanor ignored this punishment and managed to cross the Great Ocean eastward. There he joined with the Sindar, who had been on Middle-earth all along. Years after this flight, in order to diminish the darkness, the Valar launched the Sun, so that it would dissolve Melkor's shadows.

Morgoth, because he possessed the Silmarils, returned to Middle-earth with more power than ever and built a new fortified empire, [[Angband]] with its capital at [[Thangorodrim]]. From there he waged war upon the Sindar. However, with the help of the Noldor who had just crossed the Ocean, the first onslaught of Morgoth's attack was thrown off.

Following this, the Noldor settled with the Sindar in the West of Middle-earth, known as [[Beleriand]]. They adopted the [[Sindarin]] language instead of their native [[Quenya]]. This period of relative peace and stability was short-lived (at least by the Elves' standards). One of the first victims of this war was Fëanor. As the time passed, Morgoth gathered more and more force.

Three hundred years after the coming of the Noldor to Beleriand, Middle-earth witnessed the awakening of Men, the Secondborn (or the Followers). Most of them allied with the Elves in order to defend Beleriand from Morgoth. However neither Elvish skill, nor human resolve succeeded in defying him. One after another, the domains of Elves and Men were destroyed and filled with evil.

At last, more than five centuries after the flight of the Noldor, [[Eärendil the Mariner|Eärendil]], the son of an Elf-woman and a Man set sail to the West with the only Silmaril that his ancestors managed to recover. He was allowed to land in Aman, and to plead the Valar for mercy towards the Elves and Men.

The Valar agreed to pardon the Noldor. They set out to fight Morgoth and were victorious. Morgoth was expelled from Arda forever. However during the conflict, the very continent of Beleriand was destroyed and sunk, thus forming a new shoreline for Middle-earth, hundreds of miles to the east.

The Valar offered Elves their pardon and the right to come to Aman. Many of them did indeed leave Middle-Earth, weary of centuries of warfare against the ever-growing evil. The tribes of Men that helped the Elves were given a whole island of their own, on which they founded the kingdom of [[Númenor]].

Eärendil's Silmaril became a bright star. One Silmaril was sunk in the water of the Great Ocean, and the third was lost in the depths of the Earth. Thus no trace remained on Middle-earth of the [[Two Trees of Valinor]]; but their influence lives on in the elements: air, water and fire/earth.

{{silmarillion}}

[[Category:Writings]]
[[Category:The Silmarillion chapters]]

Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor

2008-07-21T16:23:56Z

Ælfwine: location of chapters template

{{silmarillion-chapters}}
'''Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor''' is the third chapter of the [[Quenta Silmarillion]] section within [[The Silmarillion]].

==Synopsis==

'''Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor''' tells of several instrumental events in the [[Legendarium]]. It begins with the [[Valar]] at war with [[Melkor]], who has sewn evil in Middle-Earth and built a great fortress [[Utumno]]. It speaks of the Valar primarily, as they ready Arda for the coming of the [[Firstborn]], the [[Elves]]. [[Tulkas]] makes war on Melkor while [[Varda]] prepares the world by placing the [[stars]] in the sky to guide the Elves in the darkness of Middle Earth. All is prepared for the coming of the Elves.

The next major event is Melkor's captivity. Melkor has built up great strength in Utumno, and created [[orcs]] in mockery of the Elves. This was said to be the most evil deed of Melkor. The War on Melkor is presumedly won. Utumno is sacked, though Tolkien notes there are deeper and mighty vaults in the fortress that were unchecked, and so evil continued. Additionally, one of the [[Maia]] who fell with Melkor, his lieutenant [[Sauron]], was not found and thus escaped. But Melkor was found cowering in the depths of Utumno, and [[Aulë]] wrought chains to keep him in captivity.

The final major event of this chapter is the coming of the Elves, Firstborn of [[Ilúvatar]]. This actually takes place while the [[War for Sake of the Elves]] is happening, and so is simultaneous rather than final. It is said, however, that the Elves heard a great shaking and were worried but did not take part in the battle. The first elves are described to have greater stature than their descendants, but are just as fair. They marvel at nature, the stars, etc. This chapter not only describes the original thoughts of the elves and their surroundings, but also the [[Great Journey]] and the sundering of the Elves. The Valar send servants to call them to [[Aman]]. The Elves embark on the journey across Middle Earth, save some who refuse, and are further called dark Elves, or the [[Avari]]. The Elves' journey, and some fall off along the way, who are called the [[Teleri]]. They are sundered in many groups, but they eventually reach [[Beleriand]] by the sea. Here more Teleri stay, for their love of the ocean. Finally those who journey across the sea to Aman are called the [[Eldar]]. Some of the Teleri, too, reach Aman, and are guided by [[Swan boats]]. From here on the Elves are sundered into groups, and these divisions will come into play later.

== The Swan Ships of the Teleri ==
[[Image:Billy Mosig - Parting from Eressea.jpg]]

== Sundering of the Elves ==

Quendi
____________________|_______________________
| |
Calaquendi___ ___Moriquendi
| | | |
Eldar_____Teleri Teleri Avari
| |
Vanyar Noldor

==External links==
* [http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?t=7291 Chapter discussion at Entmoot.com]
* [http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=13391 Chapter discussion at BarrowDowns.com]

User talk:Amroth/Screenplays/The Hobbit

2008-07-21T01:09:04Z

Ælfwine: /* Wizards */

==Concerning Legolas==

Just one comment/question. I know [[Peter Jackson]] ''will'' put in Legolas. Is there anything wrong with putting him in now in the context of [[Thranduil]]'s Halls and the [[Battle of Five Armies]], so long as his role doesn't contradict the books? --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 06:41, 23 May 2006 (EDT)

:I don't see any harm in that as I agree, Jackson will most likely wish for much of the cast to return. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:36, 23 May 2006 (EDT)

:Adding Legolas just to attract those fans of the LOTR movies who have read none of the books is absolutely ridiculous. --[[User:Michael riber jorgensen|Michael riber jorgensen]] 15:52, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

==Beren and Luthien screenplay==
I thought I'd better ask this here as I don't know where else to ask it. Would it be a good idea to start a [[Beren Erchamion|Beren]] and [[Lúthien]] screenplay? If so, could you respond to this question in a new thread on the forums? --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 13:02, 5 June 2006 (EDT)

:For those not aware: This question has been answered elsewhere, see [[The Lay of Leithian_screenplay]] for the screenplay --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:12, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

==Adult vs. Child-oriented==
One rather major issue is whether the screenplay will be geared towards children or towards adults. On one side, a darker, more adult theme would be similar to that of [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]], the film would also be more likely to entertain a larger audience and thus profit more. However the book was written by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] with children in mind and altering it to a darker style may be deviating too much from the original story and thus upsetting [[purists]]. What do you guys think? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:12, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

:This is a big question. I favor a balanced approach, if you know what I mean. I'm fine with a darker prologue, and scenes of tension with Gandalf in Dol Guldur. I think, however, it might be nice to have the scenes in Bag End, for instance, being humorous and light-hearted, showing obviously Gandalf toying with Bilbo. You'll notice that the mood of The Hobbit grows darker as it goes along, seeming to mature as Bilbo does. From Bilbo's perspective (at first) the outside world is a bother, a nuisance, and yet dreadfully frightening. But we also see through Gandalf's eyes that it is full of conflict, evil and good. Their views begin to merge as the end is approached. That is my opinion, anyway. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 12:42, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

== Comments from Failadiel ==

Hi!

I was reading the Hobbit screenplay on this site, and i'm new here so i dont really know how to contact the one in charge of it... the thing is, you CANT take out the line Gandalf says to Bilbo after his Good morning. it shows he is relaxed and a philosopher, and he's trying to make Bilbo think. it's also a famous quote and a line that reminds us not to say something because it is the right thing to say but because we mean it. oh, and by the way, Orlando Bloom should appear in Mirkwood not because of his physical appearance, but because viewers are always happy to see a familiar face. it makes them feel more at home. and there are parts in the script that seemed too rushed, but that's just my opinion.

Warm regards,

Failadiel

== Jack Black for Bilbo ==

amirite?--[[User:Aule the Smith|Aule the Smith]] 10:13, 10 February 2008 (EST)

:Can I get a vomitbag? Bilbo is so obviously Martin Freeman ;) -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 12:05, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== The Necromancer / Dol Guldur storyline ==

This screenplay begins with a prologue introducing Dol Guldur in an attempt to integrate the plot to the wider War of the Ring. The Lord of the Rings films successfully used a prologue to introduce the central story of the One Ring. But The Hobbit is the story of Bilbo's personal journey- from a quiet life in the Shire to becoming a brave adventurer. The Necromancer is not relevant to this core story and the Dol Guldur scenes would I think be best left to the second 'bridge' film (focussing on the rise of Sauron). The start of The Hobbit needs to introduce Bilbo's character, the heart of the story, as in this
[http://www.storyscape.net/hobbit_screenplay.html Hobbit Screenplay].

It would be possible to tell the story of Smaug attacking Erebor in a prologue, but there are advantages in telling this story at Bag End as we share in Bilbo learning the tale, and Thorin's narration develops his character's longing to recapture his long lost horde. --

[[User:burrahobbit|burrahobbit]] 12 March 2008

==Orson Bean==
As I'm watching the Rankin Bass version at the moment, I was thinking... how about a cameo for [[Orson Bean]]? Maybe at the end, as [[Holman Greenhand]]? -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 11:58, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

I like the idea, I enjoyed him as Bilbo.

==Beorn==
Surely there can be only one choice for Beorn: Robbie Coltrane. (No, I don't want him to be a Hagrid clone) --[[User:Michael riber jorgensen|Michael riber jorgensen]] 15:56, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:Well, if Brian Blessed were 20 years younger, I'd vote for him. Robbie Coltrane is, IMHO, not really fit as Beorn. sorry. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 16:00, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Wizards ==

Why does Saruman say "the wizards and I will be expecting you there" when Radagast is the only other remaining wizard in the west? Also, I believe that Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond, and Cirdan were also members of the white council, but the description in the article is "old wise men." [[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 21:09, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

User talk:Amroth/Screenplays/The Hobbit

2008-07-21T01:08:49Z

Ælfwine: Wizards

Talk:Balrogs

2008-07-20T19:37:24Z

Ælfwine: /* Wings */

== Different Image ==
I don't particularly like Steve Hidook's Balrog image. I'd like to replace it with an image by Daniel Govar or John Howe. Is there a system for changing images of popular entries? Thanks. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 01:05, 30 May 2006 (EDT)

[[Image:Steve Hidook - A Balrog.jpg|thumb|left|Steve Hidook]]
[[Image:Daniel Govar - Balrog.jpg|thumb|left|Daniel Govar]]
[[Image:John Howe - Balrog 04.jpg|thumb|left|John Howe]]
<br style="clear:both;"/>

:Thanks for bringing this to our attention Ebakunin as this was definitely something that would arise and we need to have a system for. At the moment because of the amount of activity on the encyclopedia one is free to edit and change out any images one likes. Sometimes a fresh image is needed. I definitely agree that especially the [[John Howe]] image would make a great replacement. In the future however I think it would be preferred to vote on changing the primary image of an article, as it truly needs to be the best representation of the article and this can cause hostility and edit wars when the choice of the image differs among editors. In short, do as you please as the encyclopedia is as much yours as it is anyone else's :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:13, 30 May 2006 (EDT)

Can we please NOT have ''any'' of the three images above? Because none of them remotely represent the Balrog. The John Howe one which is the current image shows a Balrog as having horns and fangs! I can't bear to look at it. Balrogs look somewhat like MEN, people, not huge horned, tailed monsters, and none of these images do justice to the Balrog's dark aura. I'm deleting the image. If you do a Google Image search for 'Balrog', not one of the finds is even close to a real Balrog. The movie Balrog has misguided many people, and these images only serve to misguide people further. Better to have no image than a misguiding one. I myself am a pitiful artist, but if someone could draw or find a good textually correct image of a Balrog, please do post it.--[[User:Barnikel|Barnikel]] 00:20, 5 June 2006 (EDT)
::I'm leaving the movie image at the bottom, because it is clearly demarcated as a portrayal in an adaptation. The other Howe images were posted like they were authoritative Balrog images, in the middle of an argument about wings.--[[User:Barnikel|Barnikel]] 00:28, 5 June 2006 (EDT)

:::I agree with Barnikel that the image from [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]] should be kept for the sake of all the movie-fans. While we also need to make sure the images at least remotely resemble a Balrog, I also think its important to at least display ''some'' images even though they may not be accurate, otherwise all our articles would be imageless save the ones drawn by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] himself. Maybe if we list what is inaccurate about the image when displayed. That being said I'm fine with leaving the above images off of the article for now until we can find some more appropriate ones. Thanks for your input! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:18, 5 June 2006 (EDT)

::::Unfortunately Hyarion is right. I have yet to see an artist draw a balrog with no wings (debatable - wouldn't reject their image for that), about twice the height of a man (see Lost Tales 2), and the rest. John Howe's do look more beast-like than man-like. I have heard, however, than an image by Rob Alexander came close, though I can't confirm that. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 07:53, 5 June 2006 (EDT)

::: Hyarion, I am not saying that all articles be imageless. There are many cases where even, shudder, movie images won't do much harm (although here artist images would be better). Like, Gandalf, for example. But the Balrog is a special case. In the absense of authoritative images, people tend to imagine Balrogs as artists have erroneously portrayed them for decades. But at a place like this, where there should be consistent and correct information about Tolkien's world, we shouldn't be posting images just to make articles look less bland, especially in cases like Balrogs or Ents. So I don't think it would be a problem not to have images for some articles like this one.--[[User:Barnikel|Barnikel]] 11:06, 5 June 2006 (EDT)

:::::'''Narfil''', I assume you meant this picture?

:::::[[Image:Rob_Alexander_-_The_Balrog_of_Moria.jpg]]

:::::I think this picture portrays the Balrog rather decent. The quality of the pic itself isn't ''that'' decent, unfortunately. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 11:15, 5 June 2006 (EDT)

== Wings ==

Could we put in the "''For'' Wings" Section that it is possible that the Balrogs had wings, but never used them [like penguins, maybe? ;)]? -[[User:Lord Aragorn1414|Lord Aragorn1414]] 14:44, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

:I definitely think that is worthy of mentioning and was surprised to find it is not already listed. Though I'm not sure Balrogs should be compared to penguins :p --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:48, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

::This is mentioned in passing in the ''against wings'' section: "Obviously, it is possible that the wings could not be used for flying." --[[User:Ted C|Ted C]] 16:37, 16 November 2006 (EST)

::Related: Did anyone besides me get the impression that the movie Balrog's wings were basically composed of smoke, making them useless for flight? --[[User:Ted C|Ted C]] 16:41, 16 November 2006 (EST)

:::Yeah, it certainly seems like that to me, I think Jackson did a great job in avoiding the wings controversy. [[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 15:37, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Balrogs

2008-07-20T19:36:28Z

Ælfwine: /* Wings */

Category talk:Images of Numenor

2008-07-20T01:07:22Z

Ælfwine:

Why is this being deleted and not fixed? It seems like a fine category to me.

The Lord of the Rings (film series)

2008-07-18T15:07:53Z

Ælfwine: All-time international box office rankings added

'''''The Lord of the Rings''''' film trilogy consists of three live action films, directed by [[Peter Jackson]]. Principal photography for all three films took place in [[New Zealand]] over a continuous eighteen-month period — the first time that three films had ever been shot together in this way, although some ''pairs'' of films had. There were several later "pick-up" shoots over the following months and years as the films were edited, special effects were added and the script was honed and revised.

*''[[Peter Jackson's The Fellowship of the Ring|The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'' was released in December 2001, and won the [[Awards|Hugo Award]] for Best Dramatic Presentation of 2001.
*''[[Peter Jackson's The Two Towers|The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]'' was released in December 2002.
*''[[Peter Jackson's The Return of the King|The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'' was released in December 2003, and won all eleven of the Academy Awards for which it was nominated, including the the award for Best Picture.

The films for the most part follow the storyline of the books (see [[J. R. R. Tolkien|J. R. R. Tolkien's]] ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''); however there are some major deviations as detailed within the entry for each film.

Principal actors and actresses include:
*[[Elijah Wood]] - Frodo Baggins
*[[Ian McKellen]] - Gandalf
*[[Viggo Mortensen]] - Aragorn
*[[Liv Tyler]] - Arwen
*[[Sean Astin]] - Samwise Gamgee
*[[Christopher Lee]] - Saruman
*[[Orlando Bloom]] - Legolas
*[[Dominic Monaghan]] - Meriadoc Brandybuck
*[[Billy Boyd]] - Peregrin Took
*[[John Rhys-Davies]] - Gimli
*[[Miranda Otto]] - Eowyn
*[[Karl Urban]] - Eomer
*[[Bernard Hill]] - Théoden
*[[Sean Bean]] - Boromir
*[[David Wenham]] - Faramir
*[[John Noble]] - Denethor
*[[Andy Serkis]] - Gollum/Sméagol

For a full list of the cast and crew of 'The Lord of the Rings', visit the following link: [http://imdb.com/title/tt0120737/fullcredits#cast]

==Facts and figures about the trilogy==

* Amount of film shot during production: '''Over 6 million feet (over 1,800 kilometers)'''
* Swords, axes, shields and makeup prosthetics created: '''48,000'''
* Background actors cast: '''20,602'''
* Costumes produced by the wardrobe department: '''19,000'''
* New Zealand cricket fans enlisted to create the [[Orcs|Orc]] army's grunts: '''10,000'''
* Behind-the-scenes crew members: '''2,400''' at the height of production
* Pairs of prosthetic [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] feet created: '''1,600'''
* Most real horses in one scene: '''250'''
* Computer special-effects artists employed: '''180'''
* Total speaking roles: '''114'''
* Locations in New Zealand used as backdrops: '''100'''
* Tailors, cobblers, designers, et al. in the wardrobe department: '''50'''
* Actors trained to speak fictional dialects and languages: '''30'''
* Total years of development for all three films: '''7'''
* Combined running time of the series (extended DVD editions): '''680 minutes (11 hours and 20 minutes)'''
* Combined worldwide box-office gross: '''US$2,916,544,743''' ([http://www.boxofficemojo.com/search/?q=lord%20of%20the%20rings&p=.htm source])
* International all-time box office rankings: 2 (Return of the King), 5 (Two Towers), 7 (Fellowship of the Ring)[http://www.boxofficemojo.com/intl/alltime/intl.htm]

==Academy Awards==

If all three films are counted as one, the trilogy was nominated for 30 Academy Awards, of which it won 17.[http://awardsdatabase.oscars.org/ampas_awards/DisplayMain.jsp?curTime=1129999202923]

The Awards were as follows (A Win is marked by a "W"):

*'''Art Direction''' [''Fellowship'', ''Two Towers'', ''King'' (W)]<br>
*'''Cinematography''' [''Fellowship'' (W)]<br>
*'''Costume Design''' [''Fellowship'', ''King'' (W)]<br>
*'''Directing''' [''Fellowship'', ''King'' (W)]<br>
*'''Film Editing''' [''Fellowship'', ''Two Towers'', ''King'' (W)]<br>
*'''Makeup''' [''Fellowship'' (W), ''King'' (W)]<br>
*'''Music''' (Original Score) [''Fellowship'' (W), ''King'' (W)]<br>
*'''Music''' (Original Song) [''Fellowship'': "May It Be", ''King'': "Into the West" (W)]<br>
*'''Best Picture''' [''Fellowship'', ''Two Towers'', ''King'' (W)]<br>
*'''Sound''' [''Fellowship'', ''Two Towers'']<br>
*'''Sound Editing''' (''Two Towers'')<br>
*'''Sound Mixing''' [''King'' (W)]<br>
*'''Supporting Actor''' [''Fellowship'': [[Ian McKellen]] ("[[Gandalf]]")]<br>
*'''Visual Effects''' [''Fellowship'' (W), ''Two Towers'' (W), ''King'' (W)]<br>
*'''Writing''' (Previously Produced or Published) [''Fellowship'', ''King'' (W)]<br>

== External links ==
* [http://www.lordoftherings.net Official site of the films]
* [http://www.theargonath.cc Pictures and varia from the films]

[[Category:Films]]
[[Category:Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]]
[[de:Der Herr der Ringe (Filmtrilogie)]]
[[fi:The Lord of the Rings (2001-2003)]]

Talk:The Silmarillion

2008-07-18T14:22:30Z

Ælfwine:

Most of the chapter synopses have yet to be done. That's a lot of work and a long road to travel.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 07:19, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

I might be able to help, how long should they be?[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 10:22, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Talk:The Silmarillion

2008-07-18T14:21:54Z

Ælfwine:

Most of the chapter synopses have yet to be done. That's a lot of work and a long road to travel.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 07:19, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Talk:The Silmarillion

2008-07-18T14:21:38Z

Ælfwine:

Fall of Fornost

2008-07-12T00:53:14Z

Ælfwine: /* Aftermath */

{{battle
| name=Fall of Fornost
| image=
| conflict=War of Angmar
| date=[[Third Age 1974|T.A. 1974]]
| place=[[Fornost Erain]]
| result=Decisive Angmar victory
| side1=Men, Elves, Hobbits
| side2=Angmar
| commanders1=King Arvedui
| commanders2=Witch-king
| forces1=Est. 2-10,000 Men of Arnor, several thousand Elves from, Lindon, Rivendell, and Lothlórien, and 500 Hobbit archers
| forces2=Est. 10-40,000 Orcs, Trolls, Evil Men from Rhudaur and elsewhere, Wolves, other evil creatures
| casual1=Est. Hundreds or even thousands of Men and Elves, along with all 500 Hobbits
| casual2=Est. Thousands
|}}

The '''Fall of Fornost''' was an event that resulted in the defeat of the forces of [[Arnor]], and the taking of their capitol city of [[Fornost]] by the [[Witch-king of Angmar]] and his armies.

== Leading Up to the Siege ==

By the year [[Third Age 1974]] things were looking very grim for the people Arnor. The [[Great Plague]] three hundred years previously had killed most of the people of [[Cardolan]] which later fell to the Witch King. And even with the aid of [[Elves]] and [[Hobbits]] most of the now diminished and totally demoralized people of Arnor were now waiting to make their final stand at Fornost, capitol city of [[Arthedain]].

== Apposing Forces ==

For the forces of [[Eriador]] exact numbers are not known, but it can be estimated that at the most ten thousand [[Men of Arnor]] were present at the city. Along with likely several thousand Elves of [[Lindon]], [[Rivendell]], [[Lothlórien]], and five hundred Hobbits archers from [[the Shire]].

For the forces of [[Angmar]] it can be estimated that there was at least twenty thousand or at the most forty thousand [[Orcs]], Trolls, Evil Men, Wolves, and all other manner of evil creatures.

== The Battle ==

Not much detail is known about what happened, but do we know that the forces of Angmar were the decisive victors and most of the forces of Eriador were driven west toward the River [[Lhûn]]. While King [[Arvedui]] and some of his guard held out north of Fornost among the [[North Downs]] until it was untenable and fled northwest.

== Aftermath ==

With Arthedain in his hands, the Witch King had conquered all of Arnor. Thereby taking the throne in the king's palace, until a year later in [[Third Age 1975|T.A. 1975]] when the forces of Eriador had regrouped with newly arrived reinforcements from [[Gondor]]. In the [[Battle of Fornost]] his army was destroyed, and he himself fled east over the [[Misty Mountains]].
Fornost was not resettled after the war. It became a deserted place, feared by the men of [[Bree]], who called it Deadman's Dike. Not until several thousand years later after the [[War of the Ring]] under King [[Aragorn II|Elessar]].

[[Category:Conflicts of the Third Age]]