Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

Talk:Rhûn

2016-09-25T14:41:39Z

151.224.22.122: /* Rhun derives from Welsh */

It's not really in the 'far east of Middle-earth' is it? 'The far east of north-west Middle-earth' maybe.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:52, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

::Perhaps "east of Rhovanion" or "east of Rhovanion and Gondor"? "The far east of north-west Middle-earth" is a bit confusing ;-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:56, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Is it just me, or doesn't "the little-known lands '''to''' the east of Middle-earth" make Rhûn into not being a part of Middle-earth? Shouldn't it be "the little-known lands '''in''' the east of Middle-earth"? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:10, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

== What is Rhûn? ==
Ederchil, I could give you a thousand reasons why Rhun lies to the EAST of Mordor and Rhovanion and is not just the lands centering the sea of Rhun. Ive looked at the original Tolkien maps he made and Rhun extends as far north as the Northern Waste and as Far south as Khand. I can show you if youd like. {{unsigned|Carter938}}

:There's no clear border on the maps. And it's not a country, so it has no clear borders. While the absence of any named land directly east of Mordor and to Khand's north could mean it borders it, it's not clear. And no map gives a mention of Rhûn north of the Iron Hills. So, do source it. Source everything. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:06, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mgd7I4vEgSY/UPD3h_QDaGI/AAAAAAAADM0/Wx8sw9wwx_E/s1600/Tolkien-Middle+Earth+Map+2.jpg Look at it. It may not be above the iron hills but it sure is east of Mordor. Your correct, it's not a country, its a general land area. Just like Harad. It goes beyond the map's borders. And yes, I scourced it now. {{unsigned|Carter938}}

:I'll give you "east of Mordor", but we can't be totally sure that it directly borders Khand. And all other borders are impossible to accurately describe as well. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:Your quite correct. Khand could be just as big as Rhun and Harad, but we dont know. I really wish Tolkien was alive today to expand upon these areas, or for Christopher Tolkien to write about it. Alas alas. By the way, why was the section in [[Easterlings]] called Portrayal in Adaptations taken down? If you go on the Haradrim page, it has the same thing. [[User:Carter938|Carter938]]

::Your section on Easterlings contained speculation, and lacked the proper layout. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:::How so? Can you give me an example? And where do i find the guidelines for the proper layout? [[User:Carter938|Carter938]]

::::Hi Carter938, thanks so much for your recent contributions! [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style|This]] article covers some of the general style guidelines, but I don't think Ederchil is concerned with the layout as much as the grammatical mistakes. One option is to write the text in Word and then copy/paste to the wiki, an alternative is to use a browser such as Google Chrome that will underline the mistakes. Don't let this discourage you, I'm sure you'll get the hang of things in no time. Just be careful, as this wiki is habit-forming :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 04:03, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

==Rhun derives from Welsh==

The first link describes how Tolkien directly used welsh in his research and as his inspiration, that doesn't have to include 'Rhun' because 'Rhun' is already in Welsh historium, (I added this as a link to 'Rhun' mentioned in my edit.<ref>https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kvlwNhh4aA4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=isbn:1479727040&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRyeiX2qrPAhUDIcAKHSQ8A0UQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=rhun&f=false</ref>
If it's possible, I can re-write it to suggest that the link is there as researchers have made that link a posibility? otherwise nobody will really know where the name 'Rhun' originates (or many other Welsh names in his stories (Arwen etc)

- Hooker, Mark (2012). Tolkien and Welsh (Tolkien a Chymraeg). Llyfrawr. ISBN 1477667733.

- Humphrey Caprenter (Tolkien and Welsh) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zWzAAgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=humphrey+carpenter+hobbit&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj73pXT3KrPAhWYOsAKHayuBEwQ6wEIHzAA#v=onepage&q=welsh&f=false

- J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=M7IQ4jTC0esC&pg=PA31&dq=tolkien+welsh&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2jNaq3arPAhXMKsAKHWxoCcoQ6AEIRDAG#v=onepage&q=tolkien%20welsh&f=false
@[[User:Morgan|Morgan]]

I can provide more evidence if you would like

Talk:Rhûn

2016-09-25T14:38:06Z

151.224.22.122: /* Rhun derives from Welsh */

It's not really in the 'far east of Middle-earth' is it? 'The far east of north-west Middle-earth' maybe.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:52, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

::Perhaps "east of Rhovanion" or "east of Rhovanion and Gondor"? "The far east of north-west Middle-earth" is a bit confusing ;-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:56, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Is it just me, or doesn't "the little-known lands '''to''' the east of Middle-earth" make Rhûn into not being a part of Middle-earth? Shouldn't it be "the little-known lands '''in''' the east of Middle-earth"? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:10, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

== What is Rhûn? ==
Ederchil, I could give you a thousand reasons why Rhun lies to the EAST of Mordor and Rhovanion and is not just the lands centering the sea of Rhun. Ive looked at the original Tolkien maps he made and Rhun extends as far north as the Northern Waste and as Far south as Khand. I can show you if youd like. {{unsigned|Carter938}}

:There's no clear border on the maps. And it's not a country, so it has no clear borders. While the absence of any named land directly east of Mordor and to Khand's north could mean it borders it, it's not clear. And no map gives a mention of Rhûn north of the Iron Hills. So, do source it. Source everything. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:06, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mgd7I4vEgSY/UPD3h_QDaGI/AAAAAAAADM0/Wx8sw9wwx_E/s1600/Tolkien-Middle+Earth+Map+2.jpg Look at it. It may not be above the iron hills but it sure is east of Mordor. Your correct, it's not a country, its a general land area. Just like Harad. It goes beyond the map's borders. And yes, I scourced it now. {{unsigned|Carter938}}

:I'll give you "east of Mordor", but we can't be totally sure that it directly borders Khand. And all other borders are impossible to accurately describe as well. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:Your quite correct. Khand could be just as big as Rhun and Harad, but we dont know. I really wish Tolkien was alive today to expand upon these areas, or for Christopher Tolkien to write about it. Alas alas. By the way, why was the section in [[Easterlings]] called Portrayal in Adaptations taken down? If you go on the Haradrim page, it has the same thing. [[User:Carter938|Carter938]]

::Your section on Easterlings contained speculation, and lacked the proper layout. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:::How so? Can you give me an example? And where do i find the guidelines for the proper layout? [[User:Carter938|Carter938]]

::::Hi Carter938, thanks so much for your recent contributions! [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style|This]] article covers some of the general style guidelines, but I don't think Ederchil is concerned with the layout as much as the grammatical mistakes. One option is to write the text in Word and then copy/paste to the wiki, an alternative is to use a browser such as Google Chrome that will underline the mistakes. Don't let this discourage you, I'm sure you'll get the hang of things in no time. Just be careful, as this wiki is habit-forming :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 04:03, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

==Rhun derives from Welsh==

The first link describes how Tolkien directly used welsh in his research and as his inspiration, that doesn't have to include 'Rhun' because 'Rhun' is already in Welsh historium, (I added this as a link to 'Rhun' mentioned in my edit.<ref>https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kvlwNhh4aA4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=isbn:1479727040&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRyeiX2qrPAhUDIcAKHSQ8A0UQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=rhun&f=false</ref>
If it's possible, I can re-write it to suggest that the link is there as researchers have made that link a posibility? otherwise nobody will really know where the name 'Rhun' originates (or many other Welsh names in his stories (Arwen etc)

- Hooker, Mark (2012). Tolkien and Welsh (Tolkien a Chymraeg). Llyfrawr. ISBN 1477667733.

- Humphrey Caprenter (Tolkien and Welsh) <ref>https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zWzAAgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=humphrey+carpenter+hobbit&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj73pXT3KrPAhWYOsAKHayuBEwQ6wEIHzAA#v=onepage&q=welsh&f=false</ref>

- J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography <ref>https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=M7IQ4jTC0esC&pg=PA31&dq=tolkien+welsh&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2jNaq3arPAhXMKsAKHWxoCcoQ6AEIRDAG#v=onepage&q=tolkien%20welsh&f=false</ref>
@[[User:Morgan|Morgan]]

I can provide more evidence if you would like

Talk:Rhûn

2016-09-25T14:35:22Z

151.224.22.122: /* Rhun derives from Welsh */

It's not really in the 'far east of Middle-earth' is it? 'The far east of north-west Middle-earth' maybe.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:52, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

::Perhaps "east of Rhovanion" or "east of Rhovanion and Gondor"? "The far east of north-west Middle-earth" is a bit confusing ;-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:56, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Is it just me, or doesn't "the little-known lands '''to''' the east of Middle-earth" make Rhûn into not being a part of Middle-earth? Shouldn't it be "the little-known lands '''in''' the east of Middle-earth"? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:10, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

== What is Rhûn? ==
Ederchil, I could give you a thousand reasons why Rhun lies to the EAST of Mordor and Rhovanion and is not just the lands centering the sea of Rhun. Ive looked at the original Tolkien maps he made and Rhun extends as far north as the Northern Waste and as Far south as Khand. I can show you if youd like. {{unsigned|Carter938}}

:There's no clear border on the maps. And it's not a country, so it has no clear borders. While the absence of any named land directly east of Mordor and to Khand's north could mean it borders it, it's not clear. And no map gives a mention of Rhûn north of the Iron Hills. So, do source it. Source everything. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:06, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mgd7I4vEgSY/UPD3h_QDaGI/AAAAAAAADM0/Wx8sw9wwx_E/s1600/Tolkien-Middle+Earth+Map+2.jpg Look at it. It may not be above the iron hills but it sure is east of Mordor. Your correct, it's not a country, its a general land area. Just like Harad. It goes beyond the map's borders. And yes, I scourced it now. {{unsigned|Carter938}}

:I'll give you "east of Mordor", but we can't be totally sure that it directly borders Khand. And all other borders are impossible to accurately describe as well. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:Your quite correct. Khand could be just as big as Rhun and Harad, but we dont know. I really wish Tolkien was alive today to expand upon these areas, or for Christopher Tolkien to write about it. Alas alas. By the way, why was the section in [[Easterlings]] called Portrayal in Adaptations taken down? If you go on the Haradrim page, it has the same thing. [[User:Carter938|Carter938]]

::Your section on Easterlings contained speculation, and lacked the proper layout. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:::How so? Can you give me an example? And where do i find the guidelines for the proper layout? [[User:Carter938|Carter938]]

::::Hi Carter938, thanks so much for your recent contributions! [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style|This]] article covers some of the general style guidelines, but I don't think Ederchil is concerned with the layout as much as the grammatical mistakes. One option is to write the text in Word and then copy/paste to the wiki, an alternative is to use a browser such as Google Chrome that will underline the mistakes. Don't let this discourage you, I'm sure you'll get the hang of things in no time. Just be careful, as this wiki is habit-forming :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 04:03, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

==Rhun derives from Welsh==

The first link describes how Tolkien directly used welsh in his research and as his inspiration, that doesn't have to include 'Rhun' because 'Rhun' is already in Welsh historium, (I added this as a link to 'Rhun' mentioned in my edit.<ref>https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kvlwNhh4aA4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=isbn:1479727040&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRyeiX2qrPAhUDIcAKHSQ8A0UQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=rhun&f=false</ref>
If it's possible, I can re-write it to suggest that the link is there as researchers have made that link a posibility? otherwise nobody will really know where the name 'Rhun' originates (or many other Welsh names in his stories (Arwen etc)

- Hooker, Mark (2012). Tolkien and Welsh (Tolkien a Chymraeg). Llyfrawr. ISBN 1477667733.

- Humphrey Capenter (Tolkien and Welsh) <ref>https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zWzAAgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=humphrey+carpenter+hobbit&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj73pXT3KrPAhWYOsAKHayuBEwQ6wEIHzAA#v=onepage&q=welsh&f=false</ref>

- <ref>https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=M7IQ4jTC0esC&pg=PA31&dq=tolkien+welsh&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2jNaq3arPAhXMKsAKHWxoCcoQ6AEIRDAG#v=onepage&q=tolkien%20welsh&f=false</ref>
@[[User:Morgan|Morgan]]

I can provide more evidence if you would like

Talk:Rhûn

2016-09-25T14:33:48Z

151.224.22.122: Evidence that shows Tolkien took influence from Welsh

It's not really in the 'far east of Middle-earth' is it? 'The far east of north-west Middle-earth' maybe.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:52, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

::Perhaps "east of Rhovanion" or "east of Rhovanion and Gondor"? "The far east of north-west Middle-earth" is a bit confusing ;-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:56, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Is it just me, or doesn't "the little-known lands '''to''' the east of Middle-earth" make Rhûn into not being a part of Middle-earth? Shouldn't it be "the little-known lands '''in''' the east of Middle-earth"? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:10, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

== What is Rhûn? ==
Ederchil, I could give you a thousand reasons why Rhun lies to the EAST of Mordor and Rhovanion and is not just the lands centering the sea of Rhun. Ive looked at the original Tolkien maps he made and Rhun extends as far north as the Northern Waste and as Far south as Khand. I can show you if youd like. {{unsigned|Carter938}}

:There's no clear border on the maps. And it's not a country, so it has no clear borders. While the absence of any named land directly east of Mordor and to Khand's north could mean it borders it, it's not clear. And no map gives a mention of Rhûn north of the Iron Hills. So, do source it. Source everything. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:06, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mgd7I4vEgSY/UPD3h_QDaGI/AAAAAAAADM0/Wx8sw9wwx_E/s1600/Tolkien-Middle+Earth+Map+2.jpg Look at it. It may not be above the iron hills but it sure is east of Mordor. Your correct, it's not a country, its a general land area. Just like Harad. It goes beyond the map's borders. And yes, I scourced it now. {{unsigned|Carter938}}

:I'll give you "east of Mordor", but we can't be totally sure that it directly borders Khand. And all other borders are impossible to accurately describe as well. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:Your quite correct. Khand could be just as big as Rhun and Harad, but we dont know. I really wish Tolkien was alive today to expand upon these areas, or for Christopher Tolkien to write about it. Alas alas. By the way, why was the section in [[Easterlings]] called Portrayal in Adaptations taken down? If you go on the Haradrim page, it has the same thing. [[User:Carter938|Carter938]]

::Your section on Easterlings contained speculation, and lacked the proper layout. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:23, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

:::How so? Can you give me an example? And where do i find the guidelines for the proper layout? [[User:Carter938|Carter938]]

::::Hi Carter938, thanks so much for your recent contributions! [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style|This]] article covers some of the general style guidelines, but I don't think Ederchil is concerned with the layout as much as the grammatical mistakes. One option is to write the text in Word and then copy/paste to the wiki, an alternative is to use a browser such as Google Chrome that will underline the mistakes. Don't let this discourage you, I'm sure you'll get the hang of things in no time. Just be careful, as this wiki is habit-forming :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 04:03, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

==Rhun derives from Welsh==

The first link describes how Tolkien directly used welsh in his research and as his inspiration, that doesn't have to include 'Rhun' because 'Rhun' is already in Welsh historium, (I added this as a link to 'Rhun' mentioned in my edit.<ref>https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kvlwNhh4aA4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=isbn:1479727040&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRyeiX2qrPAhUDIcAKHSQ8A0UQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=rhun&f=false</ref>
If it's possible, I can re-write it to suggest that the link is there as researchers have made that link a posibility? otherwise nobody will really know where the name 'Rhun' originates (or many other Welsh names in his stories (Arwen etc)

- Hooker, Mark (2012). Tolkien and Welsh (Tolkien a Chymraeg). Llyfrawr. ISBN 1477667733.

- Humphrey Capenter (Tolkien and Welsh) <ref>https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zWzAAgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=humphrey+carpenter+hobbit&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj73pXT3KrPAhWYOsAKHayuBEwQ6wEIHzAA#v=onepage&q=welsh&f=false</ref>

- https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=M7IQ4jTC0esC&pg=PA31&dq=tolkien+welsh&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2jNaq3arPAhXMKsAKHWxoCcoQ6AEIRDAG#v=onepage&q=tolkien%20welsh&f=false
@[[User:Morgan|Morgan]]

I can provide more evidence if you would like