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	<updated>2026-06-13T22:41:47Z</updated>
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		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Haradrim&amp;diff=334682</id>
		<title>Haradrim</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Haradrim&amp;diff=334682"/>
		<updated>2021-08-29T14:58:24Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;172.68.50.65: /* Traits and culture */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{people infobox&lt;br /&gt;
| name=Haradrim&lt;br /&gt;
| image=[[File:John_Howe - Southrons.jpg|250px]]&lt;br /&gt;
| caption=&amp;quot;[[:File:John_Howe - Southrons.jpg|Southrons]]&amp;quot; by [[John Howe]]&lt;br /&gt;
| pronun={{respell|ha|rad|rim}}&lt;br /&gt;
| othernames=Southrons&lt;br /&gt;
| origin=&lt;br /&gt;
| location=[[Harad]], including [[Umbar]], [[Near Harad]] and [[Far Harad]]&lt;br /&gt;
| affiliation=[[Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
| rivalry=[[Gondorians]]&lt;br /&gt;
| language=presumably numerous; different from [[Common Speech]]&lt;br /&gt;
| members=&lt;br /&gt;
| lifespan=shorter than [[Númenórean]]&lt;br /&gt;
| distinctions=&lt;br /&gt;
| height=Tall&lt;br /&gt;
| hair=Dark&lt;br /&gt;
| skin=Dark&lt;br /&gt;
| clothing=&lt;br /&gt;
| weapons=[[Oliphaunts]]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The &#039;&#039;&#039;Haradrim&#039;&#039;&#039; or the &#039;&#039;&#039;Southrons&#039;&#039;&#039; were the proud and warlike people of the [[Harad]], in the south of [[Middle-earth]]. Ancient enemies of the [[Dúnedain]] realms, they committed to the cause of [[Sauron]] in his wars upon western lands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== History ==&lt;br /&gt;
The ancestors of the Haradrim were [[Men]] who awoke in the [[First Age]], but stayed to the [[East]] of [[Middle-earth]], not joining the migration of the [[Edain]] to the [[West (disambiguation)|West]]. They eventually settled in [[Harad]], where the [[Sun]] is fierce and there are no clouds. It is possible that they were relatives of the [[Easterlings (First Age)|Swarthy Men]] who went to [[Beleriand]] after the Edain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the [[Second Age]] [[Sauron]] escaped the judgement of the [[Valar]] and continued wreak his cunning works, turning the Men of the [[East]] and [[South (disambiguation)|South]] to evil and dominating them. Under the authority of the Dark Lord, many towns and walls of stone were built, and those under his influence became numerous and armed with iron. To these men, Sauron was feared as a king and god.&amp;lt;ref name=rings&amp;gt;{{S|Rings}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
=== Second Age ===&lt;br /&gt;
During the Second Age the [[Númenóreans|High Men]] of [[Númenor]] built a great city in the firth of [[Umbar]], a vast natural harbour on the southern shores of the [[Bay of Belfalas]], eventually turning the city into a fortified citadel from whose gates the Men of Númenor initially benefited the people in the lands they explored by teaching them many things about agriculture and craftsmanship.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|Numenor}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; After the reign of [[Tar-Ciryatan]], the Númenóreans began to set themselves up as lords in Middle-earth as they demanded tribute of goods and wealth, causing the oppression of the Haradrim. Under [[Ar-Pharazon]], the Númenóreans made war on the Men of Middle-earth, enslaving them and using them for human sacrifices.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|Akallabeth}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the following centuries they were influenced by [[Sauron]] and [[Black Númenóreans]], those evil High Men who stayed in Harad and survived the [[Downfall of Númenor]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|V10}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The Haradrim became enemies of [[Gondor]], as the Kingdom&#039;s southern borders were close to their lands. Shortly before the [[War of the Last Alliance]], two Númenórean lords, [[Herumor]] and [[Fuinur]], &amp;quot;rose to great power amongst the Haradrim&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=rings/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Third Age ===&lt;br /&gt;
The Haradrim did not trouble the [[Realms in Exile]] for many centuries. There were dealings between the southlands and Gondor in these days, though it is said that there was never friendship between the two realms.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;herbs&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; When Gondor took the haven of [[Umbar]] from the [[Black Númenóreans]], in the year {{TA|1015}} they followed the Black Númenóreans against Umbar to recapture it. Their great power was not enough against the sea-power of Gondor. The attempts lasted for 35 years until, in {{TA|1050}}, [[Ciryaher]] defeated the Haradrim force by sending troops by land. They acknowledged the overlordship of Gondor; the kings of Harad did homage and their sons were given as hostages in the court of the [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;annals&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{App|Gondor}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Later however kings of Harad who were in league with [[Umbar]] rebelled against Gondor. King [[Aldamir]] fell in battle against them and the [[Corsairs of Umbar]] ({{TA|1540}}); but his son [[Vinyarion]] won a great victory in Harad in {{TA|1551}}.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;annals&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=ta&amp;gt;{{App|TA}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Haradrim later were allied with the [[Wainriders]], a confederation of [[Easterlings]], and the Men of [[Khand]]. During that time they conquered Umbar. The simultaneous assaults from the north and the south brought the South-kingdom close to destruction. The Haradrim crossed the river [[Poros]] into [[South Ithilien]], but the [[Southern Army]], destroyed them. The campaigns ended with the Wainriders&#039; definite defeat in the [[Battle of the Camp]] in {{TA|1944}}.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;annals&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the later years three great fleets were prepared in Umbar and Harad. Around the [[Long Winter]] they assailed the [[Outlands|coasts]] of Gondor, even [[Rohan]]. It was [[Beregond (Steward of Gondor)|Beregond]] who defeated the invaders.&amp;lt;ref name=stew&amp;gt;{{App|Stewards}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Haradrim occupied [[Harondor]] and there was a long fight along the [[Poros]]. Stirred by emissaries of [[Sauron]], they attempted once more to invade into [[Ithilien]] ({{TA|2885}}) but a combined force of Gondorians and [[Rohirrim]] defeated them at the [[Crossing of Poros]].&amp;lt;ref name=stew/&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|TA}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{App|Mark}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the time of the [[War of the Ring]], the Southrons were openly in league with [[Sauron]]&#039;s forces once more and fought alongside the [[Orcs|Orc]] army. The Haradrim were among the forces led by the [[Witch-king]] that attacked [[Osgiliath]] on [[20 June|June 20]], {{TA|3018}},&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Great&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{App|Great}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; at the beginning of the War. They captured the eastern half of Osgiliath, but [[Boromir]] and [[Faramir]] cast down the bridge across the [[Anduin]] and defended the western half of the city.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Council&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{FR|II2}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; More Haradrim continued to come up the [[Harad Road]] to Mordor. Faramir and the [[Rangers of Ithilien]] ambushed some companies of Haradrim, but they could not stop them all.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;herbs&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]], they deployed cavalry and gigantic, [[Elephants|elephant]]-like [[Oliphaunts|Mûmakil]]. Regiments of Haradrim joined the host from Minas Morgul marching to the [[Pelennor Fields]]. Sauron&#039;s forces besieged [[Minas Tirith]], and the Mûmakil of Harad were used to bring forward war-towers and siege-engines to test the City&#039;s defences. One of the leaders of the Haradrim at this time bore the standard of the [[Black Serpent]] and was slain by King [[Théoden]] of [[Rohan]] at the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]&amp;lt;ref name=fields&amp;gt;{{RK|V6}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; on [[15 March]] {{TA|3019|n}}.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Great&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once Sauron was destroyed, Southrons in the western lands of Harad submitted to the rule of King [[Aragorn|Elessar]]. The Southrons in the East, however, remained independent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Traits and culture ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Alan Lee - Oliphaunt.jpg|thumb|left|&amp;quot;Oliphaunt&amp;quot; by [[Alan Lee]]]]&lt;br /&gt;
The Haradrim were bold and grim men, fierce in despair. They were tall and dark-skinned with black hair and dark eyes, and for that they were called &#039;&#039;&#039;Swertings&#039;&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Swarthy Men]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;herbs&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{TT|Herbs}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The men of [[Near Harad]] were brown-skinned, with black hair and dark eyes,&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Gate&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{TT|IV3}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; while the race known as &amp;quot;[[Half-trolls|half-trolls]]&amp;quot; out of [[Far Harad]] had black skin.&amp;lt;ref name=fields/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many Haradrim warriors were seen in bright clothing, such as scarlet robes, and were decorated with golden ornaments, such as collars, earrings, corsets of overlapping brazen plates; they braided their hair with gold. Some tribes painted their bodies. Scarlet and red was also the color of their banners, tips of their spears, and body paint. Their shields were yellow and black with spikes.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;herbs&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; It is also mentioned that at the end of the Second Age some of the Men in the south had weapons of iron.&amp;lt;ref name=rings/&amp;gt; At the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, the Haradrim bore scimitars that glittered like stars.&amp;lt;ref name=fields/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Haradrim had tamed the massive &#039;&#039;[[Oliphaunts|Mûmakil]]&#039;&#039; beasts and used them in warfare and, like their masters, were decorated with scarlet and gold. They even strapped towers on their backs, used by Haradrim archers and spearmen.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;herbs&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Harad&#039;s tribes included into those of Near and Far Harad, although there were many tribes of the Haradrim, often mutually hostile. Some of the peoples of Far Harad were organized into kingdoms.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;herbs&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Coerced by the Deceiver, the Haradrim were among those [[Men of Darkness|Men]] who revered Sauron as a god-like figure, being in both great awe and fear of his mastery over fire. &amp;lt;ref name=rings&amp;gt;{{S|Rings}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Language===&lt;br /&gt;
To the [[Gondorians]] their voices sounded harsh, like shouts of beasts.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|Siege}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The only word which is stated to come from a southron language is &amp;quot;Mûmak&amp;quot;, the name of the great war-oliphaunts of Harad.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Gandalf]] states that his name in &amp;quot;the south&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;[[Incánus]]&amp;quot; thought &#039;&#039;Inkā-nūsh&#039;&#039; (or possibly &#039;&#039;Inkā-nūs&#039;&#039;), meaning &amp;quot;North-spy&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{UT|Istari}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Despite having a meaning in Quenya (&amp;quot;fate&amp;quot;), the name [[Umbar]] is said to be adapted from the natives&#039; language and not from Elvish or [[Adûnaic]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Etymology ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Haradrim&#039;&#039; is a [[Sindarin]] name, consisting of the elements &#039;&#039;[[harad]]&#039;&#039; (&amp;quot;south&amp;quot;) + &#039;&#039;[[rim]]&#039;&#039; (&amp;quot;host&amp;quot;)&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{L|144}}, p. 178&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; thus meaning &amp;quot;South-people&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other names were &#039;&#039;&#039;Southerns&#039;&#039;&#039;, &#039;&#039;&#039;Southrons&#039;&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Other versions of the legendarium==&lt;br /&gt;
Early variant names for this people were the &#039;&#039;Barangils&#039;&#039;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{WR|2|IV}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; the &#039;&#039;Haradwaith&#039;&#039; (from the name of their land) and &#039;&#039;Haradrians&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|SD}}, pp. 16-7&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Early [[Westron]] names include &#039;&#039;Harwan&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;Silharrows&#039;&#039;, which are derived from the [[Old English]] name of the Aethiopians, &#039;&#039;Sigelhearwan&#039;&#039; (See also: &#039;&#039;[[Sigelwara Land]]&#039;&#039;).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{TI|Fangorn}}, Note 4&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Portrayal in adaptations==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (film series)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The Haradrim appear briefly in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]] when Frodo and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] witness a raid on one of their columns by [[Faramir|Faramir&#039;s]] rangers. They are featured more prominently in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]], in which the battle between the [[Rohirrim]] and the [[Oliphaunts|Mûmakil]] is a major action sequence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:While the [[The Return of the King|book]] depicts the Southron army as primarily cavalry armed with scimitars, we see no horsemen in the movie: the Haradrim fight almost exclusively from platforms mounted on the backs of their monstrous [[oliphaunts]]. They have also adorned the animals&#039; tusks with spikes and shafts that crush and impale numerous enemy horsemen.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The costumes of the Haradrim in the movie are Middle Eastern in style and dark brown or red in colour with black turbans, while the Haradrim wore red livery in the book. They retain, however, a rich ornamentation that is referred to in the source material. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== See also ==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[:Category:Images of Haradrim|Images of Haradrim]]&lt;br /&gt;
{{references}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Haradrim| ]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Men]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Sindarin demonyms]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Servants of Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Haradrim]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo/peuples/hommes/haradrim]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Haradrim]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>172.68.50.65</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ring-bearers&amp;diff=334624</id>
		<title>Ring-bearers</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ring-bearers&amp;diff=334624"/>
		<updated>2021-08-24T05:07:03Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;172.68.50.65: please use the edit summary to explain why you don&amp;#039;t want to add Boromir; if there are Déagol and Gandalf, shouldn&amp;#039;t there be Boromir as well?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{quote|Cormacolindor, a laita tárienna!&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;The Ring-bearers, praise them with great praise!|[[Long live the Halflings! Praise them with great praise!|Praises at the Field of Cormallen]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:John Howe - The One Ring 01.jpg|&#039;&#039;The One Ring&#039;&#039; by [[John Howe]]|thumb]]&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Ring-bearers&#039;&#039;&#039; was a title used for those three [[Hobbits]] ([[Bilbo Baggins]], [[Frodo Baggins]] and [[Samwise Gamgee]]) who had at one time borne [[the One Ring]], and aided in its destruction. Because of their status as Ring-bearers, they were granted the passage of the [[Straight Road]], and each eventually went to the [[Aman|Blessed Realm]] to live out their lives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Though only these three Hobbits are strictly counted as Ring-bearers, in fact the Ring was borne by other hands besides; and over its history of about 4.8 millennia only a very few individuals had ever touched it. &lt;br /&gt;
==List of persons who touched the Ring==&lt;br /&gt;
Those who actually wore the Ring, as opposed to picking it up or holding it, are shown in bold.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Sauron]]&#039;&#039;&#039; - He forged the One Ring for himself around {{SA|1600}} and bore it for approximately 1840 years until his defeat in the [[Siege of Barad-dûr]] in {{SA|3441}}.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Isildur]]&#039;&#039;&#039; - Against the advice of [[Elrond]] and [[Círdan]], he took the Ring for himself. He did not bear it long - two years later, Isildur was ambushed by [[Orcs]] and the One Ring was lost in the [[Anduin]] on [[4 October]], {{TA|2}}, where it lay hidden for most of the [[Third Age]]. &lt;br /&gt;
* [[Déagol]] - He discovered the Ring while fishing the [[Gladden Fields]] in about {{TA|2463}}. He held it for only a short time before he was murdered by his friend [[Sméagol]], who stole the Ring for himself. &lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Gollum]]&#039;&#039;&#039; - He took the Ring from [[Déagol]], and soon hid with it in the roots of the [[Misty Mountains]]. He bore it in the dark for almost five hundred years.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Bilbo Baggins]]&#039;&#039;&#039; - He discovered the Ring &#039;by accident&#039; while imprisoned beneath the Misty Mountains in July {{TA|2941}}, and claimed it from Gollum by defeating him in a [[Riddle-game]]. He carried it eastward to [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]], and then back westward to the Shire, where he kept it. He bore the Ring for almost exactly sixty years. &lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Frodo Baggins]]&#039;&#039;&#039; - He was given the Ring by Bilbo on the advice of Gandalf. He was the Ring-bearer, who carried the One Ring from the Shire to Orodruin, to the very brink of the Cracks of Doom. Once there, the Ring&#039;s power overmastered him, and he named it to himself, but Gollum bit it from his finger and fell into the Fire. Frodo bore the Ring for seventeen years until its destruction. &lt;br /&gt;
* [[Gandalf]] - He held it for a matter of moments on the morning of [[13 April]], {{TA|3018}}, before throwing it into Frodo&#039;s fire. This was the moment that the Ring&#039;s fiery inscription appeared, confirming that it was the One Ring.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Boromir]] - When Frodo slipped and fell on the [[Caradhras]] he lost the ring which was picked up by Boromir. [[Aragorn]] made Boromir give the ring back to Frodo.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Tom Bombadil]]&#039;&#039;&#039; - He wore it on his finger for a moment on [[27 September]], {{TA|3018}}, but was unaffected by it. The reason that Tom was immune to the effects of the Ring remains an abiding mystery. &lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Samwise Gamgee]]&#039;&#039;&#039; - He bore the Ring for about two days in March {{TA|3019}}, while Frodo his master was in the clutches of Orcs in the [[Tower of Cirith Ungol]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==A possible Ring-bearer?==&lt;br /&gt;
While Frodo was recovering in [[Rivendell]], one morning he found the Ring passed through a chain for him.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{FR|Meetings}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; It is not known what person or persons did this while he was sleeping. It could be [[Elrond]], [[Gandalf]], or any [[Calaquendi|High Elf]] of Rivendell, but his identity, the process, and whether he touched it, are unknown.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-FrodoChain FAQ of the Rings - In Rivendell, who put Frodo’s Ring on a chain?]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Etymology==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Quenya]] translation of &amp;quot;Ring-bearers&amp;quot; is given as &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;[[corma|Cormacolindor]]&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{RK|VI4}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Ring-finder]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{References}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{ringbearers}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Ring-bearers|*]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[category:epithets]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Ringträger]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Sormuksen viejä]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>172.68.50.65</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_One_Ring&amp;diff=334050</id>
		<title>Talk:The One Ring</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_One_Ring&amp;diff=334050"/>
		<updated>2021-08-01T08:52:11Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;172.68.50.65: /* Rephrasing */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Rewrite==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m having some trouble with the current, one-sided view of Kjaerulff in the Symbolism part. Can&#039;t we put the view of Tolkien first, and only then other people&#039;s views? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Inscription- the films DIDN&#039;T change this!==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sitting here with the recent edition of The Fellowship of the Ring sitting in front of me- the one that was released in conjunction with the film triloy- and contrary to the article as it stands, the Ring&#039;s inscription DOES appear both on the interior and exterior curves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here&#039;s the passage verbatim, emphasis mine:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;As Frodo did so, he now saw fine lines, finer than the finest pen-strokes, running along the ring, &#039;&#039;&#039;outside and inside&#039;&#039;&#039;: lines of fire that seemed to form the letters of a flowing script.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
-&amp;quot;The Shadow of the Past&amp;quot;, page 49 (at least in the copy I have before me).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So... in the interest of accuracy, could I change this? The films aren&#039;t running contrary to the books, at least according to THIS edition... so having that in the Portrayal in Adaptations section sort of irks me. [[User:Dinosaur bob|Dinosaur bob]] 19:01, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hello Bob. Nice quote! I quickly read the article, but I couldn&#039;t find anywhere it explicitly says that the inscription would only be inside the ring (though I might have missed the passage). On the other hand, the article only says that the inscription turn up &amp;quot;on the ring&amp;quot;, so using the info from your quote would improve the article, IMHO. My suggestion would be to cite the passage from &#039;&#039;The Shadow of the Past&#039;&#039; just below the heading of the section &amp;quot;Appearance&amp;quot; (starting &amp;quot;[Frodo] now saw fine lines, ...&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
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::As this is a core article, we should perhaps await some opinions from others. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:20, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Ederchil fast as usual! ;-) What do you think about using the quote, Ederchil? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:23, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::See the part where it says &amp;quot;requires some clean up&amp;quot;? Like you say, it&#039;s a high profile page, but the quality is below standards. So, anything with a source is better than what we have now. Maybe we can make this our next collaboration, because [[Tuor]] is a bit down on love lately. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:32, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hmmm, Without reading all this discussion I came in and rewrote a sentence which had ended &amp;quot;inside the rim.&amp;quot;  I did this (as someone else said more than 6 years ago) in the interests of accuracy.  All my other small changes were to help with the flow of the text and make it easier to read.  I made this account immediately afterwards as I thought editing anonymously might be frowned upon. [[User:Mvoorhis|Mvoorhis]] 02:47, 29 October 2016 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rephrasing ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The statement &amp;quot;Hobbits, being more pure of heart than Men and far less powerful than Elves&amp;quot; is pretty much racist. It depends on the individual hobbit/man/elf. E.g. Frodo is pure of heart, Pippin is a neer-do-well (but I like him) and one also got to know rather decadent hobbits (e.g. drunkards in the Green Dragon Inn). Rangers of the North and of Ithilien and many Gondor citizens are definitely more pure of heart than certain hobbits and almost as much as elves and may be more powerful such as Boromir. One should rephrase that statement. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.50.65|172.68.50.65]] 08:51, 1 August 2021 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>172.68.50.65</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_One_Ring&amp;diff=334049</id>
		<title>Talk:The One Ring</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_One_Ring&amp;diff=334049"/>
		<updated>2021-08-01T08:51:00Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;172.68.50.65: /* Rephrasing */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Rewrite==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m having some trouble with the current, one-sided view of Kjaerulff in the Symbolism part. Can&#039;t we put the view of Tolkien first, and only then other people&#039;s views? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Inscription- the films DIDN&#039;T change this!==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sitting here with the recent edition of The Fellowship of the Ring sitting in front of me- the one that was released in conjunction with the film triloy- and contrary to the article as it stands, the Ring&#039;s inscription DOES appear both on the interior and exterior curves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here&#039;s the passage verbatim, emphasis mine:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;As Frodo did so, he now saw fine lines, finer than the finest pen-strokes, running along the ring, &#039;&#039;&#039;outside and inside&#039;&#039;&#039;: lines of fire that seemed to form the letters of a flowing script.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
-&amp;quot;The Shadow of the Past&amp;quot;, page 49 (at least in the copy I have before me).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So... in the interest of accuracy, could I change this? The films aren&#039;t running contrary to the books, at least according to THIS edition... so having that in the Portrayal in Adaptations section sort of irks me. [[User:Dinosaur bob|Dinosaur bob]] 19:01, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hello Bob. Nice quote! I quickly read the article, but I couldn&#039;t find anywhere it explicitly says that the inscription would only be inside the ring (though I might have missed the passage). On the other hand, the article only says that the inscription turn up &amp;quot;on the ring&amp;quot;, so using the info from your quote would improve the article, IMHO. My suggestion would be to cite the passage from &#039;&#039;The Shadow of the Past&#039;&#039; just below the heading of the section &amp;quot;Appearance&amp;quot; (starting &amp;quot;[Frodo] now saw fine lines, ...&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::As this is a core article, we should perhaps await some opinions from others. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:20, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Ederchil fast as usual! ;-) What do you think about using the quote, Ederchil? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:23, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::See the part where it says &amp;quot;requires some clean up&amp;quot;? Like you say, it&#039;s a high profile page, but the quality is below standards. So, anything with a source is better than what we have now. Maybe we can make this our next collaboration, because [[Tuor]] is a bit down on love lately. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:32, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hmmm, Without reading all this discussion I came in and rewrote a sentence which had ended &amp;quot;inside the rim.&amp;quot;  I did this (as someone else said more than 6 years ago) in the interests of accuracy.  All my other small changes were to help with the flow of the text and make it easier to read.  I made this account immediately afterwards as I thought editing anonymously might be frowned upon. [[User:Mvoorhis|Mvoorhis]] 02:47, 29 October 2016 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rephrasing ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The statement &amp;quot;Hobbits, being more pure of heart than Men and far less powerful than Elves&amp;quot; is pretty much racist. It depends of the individual hobbit/man/elf. E.g. Frodo is pure of heart, Pippin is a neer-do-well (but I like him) and one also got to know rather decadent hobbits (e.g. drunkards in the Green Dragon Inn). Rangers of the North and of Ithilien and many Gondor citizens are definitely more pure of heart than certain hobbits and almost as much as elves and may be more powerful such as Boromir. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.50.65|172.68.50.65]] 08:51, 1 August 2021 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>172.68.50.65</name></author>
	</entry>
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