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Talk:Dragon-helm of Dor-lómin

2022-07-26T19:59:04Z

172.69.22.226: /* History section */

== Example Image? ==
I found an actual helm that fits almost perfectly the description of the Dragon-helm. It was made by the legendary armorer Filippo Negroli. You can see it [http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/12/2004/hm12_2_11_10_0.html here]. I'm wondering whether it would be appropriate to use the image in this article? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 01:33, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

:Good question. I've been wondering where we should draw the line as well, mainly with images approaching the Dungeons and Dragons or fantasy style opposed to strictly Tolkien. Maybe we can use the image and state it was a possible inspiration for the Professor? As long as we state the artist was not inspired by Middle-earth, I would be okay with it, a similar image is better than none at all. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:39, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

==History section==
I'm unsure of including the info about the destiny of the Helm beyond the Sack of Bar-en-Danwedh in the History section. That info is only given in notes and the final destiny still remains unknown. Instead I would point out that Túrin wore a dwarf-mask in Nargothrond and the Battle of Tumhalad, which is what Christopher included in his editions (info that he did not invented, but chose). --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 14:50, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

:The question Dragon-helm vs. Dwarf-mask is very important. Túrin can only find a Dwarf-mask in the armories of Nargothrond, if the dwarves had been there and had been working there. The involvement of dwarves in Nargothrond is something, that developed slowly and was not present in the Lost Tales. When Húrin came to Doriath, he brought in the Lost Tales the treasure, that was cursed by the dragon. Later he brought the nacklace of the dwarves, that was forged in Nargothrond already. But Tolkien never touched the original Tale of the Ruin of Doriath. So step by step a major contradiction developed. Christopher re-wrote the whole Doriath-chapter in his 1977 Silmarillion according to the idea, that the dwarves had been in Nargothrond already. But these notes by his father show, that this was not decided finally. That is, why it should be mentioned. This complex question is not restricted to the Helm vs. Mask, it influences more stories, e.g. Galadriel's sojourn in Beleriand during the First Age.--[[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.226|172.69.22.226]] 19:59, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Durin's Bane

2022-07-26T01:18:58Z

172.69.22.226: /* When came the Balrog to Moria? */ new section

==Main image==
The main image was changed months ago without discussion, but I propose to change it with [[:File:Ted Nasmith - Gandalf and the Balrog Upon Celebdil.jpg|this]] of the same artist, which is more detailed and is not already used. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 11:55, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

:I've just taken a look through the gallery and have to admit I prefer the [[:File:Ted Nasmith - At the Bridge.jpg|previous image]]. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:27, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

:Agreed with your choice, both are nice pictures and I don't mind which one is picked. [[User:Gaetano|Gaetano]] 22:06, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

==Gender?==
In this article, Durin's Bane is referred to as both "it" and "he". Which is more correct? -- [[User:Ancalagon the Black|Ancalagon the Black]] 17:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
:I'd say "he," since Durin's Bane is specifically referred to as a male by Gandalf in ''[[The Two Towers]]'' (Chapter 5 to be specific). --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 20:28, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

::In ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', [[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]], the Balrog is always referred to as "it". Some of that might come from its originally unknown nature, but even after Gimli identifies it as Durin's Bane, "it" is still used. But Holdwine Meriadoc is definitely right in that in Chapter 5 of ''[[The Two Towers]]'' ([[The White Rider]]), Gandalf always uses "he" when he gives his account of the encounter. I would go ahead and go with "he" here, which would make it consistent with the articles for [[Gothmog (balrog)]] and [[Lungorthin]]. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 02:58, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

:::Makes sense. Thank you both! -- [[User:Ancalagon the Black|Ancalagon the Black]] 03:24, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

== When came the Balrog to Moria? ==

In the article it is suggested, that this balrog escaped the battle at the end of the First Age and went to Moria. No references are given, and it doesn't make sense. Durin had discovered Moria during the First Age and there was no disturbance until Sauron came in the Second Age. So I don't see any possibility for this balrog to sneak in. I would rather suggest, that Melkor put him there himself, when he raised the [[Misty Mountains]] in the Days of the Trees, before the Elves came. Durin was laid under Mount Gundabad by Tulkas even before. --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.226|172.69.22.226]] 01:18, 26 July 2022 (UTC)