Reading order

2022-07-30T04:52:39Z

172.69.33.126:

New [[Tolkien fandom|Tolkien fans]] are usually puzzled with the complexity of the works and the '''best order in which to read the works'''. The most famous works take place late in the [[legendarium]]'s history, with hints to the backstory. The stories that comprise the background are relatively complex and have no obvious links to the most famous works. Furthemore, the stories-chapters-essays overlap each another, or take place simultaneously, differing only in the extensiveness of the details.

Hardcore fans read the works more than once. For example one can read ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' first, then ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and sometime later ''The Lord of the Rings'' again, in light of the backstory seen in The Hobbit.

There can be various approaches:
==Publication history==
This can be one of the most famous approaches.
*''The Hobbit''
:People can start with ''The Hobbit'', as an easy and lighthearted fantasy story, which Tolkien published first, without having much backstory and historical details in mind.
*''The Lord of the Rings''
:The Lord of the Rings is the natural sequel of The Hobbit and completes the story. However it has many allusions to the greater world and ancient history of [[Arda]].
*''[[The Silmarillion]]''
:Published after Tolkien's death, it provides the cosmogony and earlier stories of Arda. It can give the reader insight about the world they already know.
*''[[Unfinished Tales]]'' / ''[[The Children of Húrin]]'' / ''[[Beren and Lúthien]]'' / ''[[The Fall of Gondolin]]''
:These books provide additional and extensive details about several aspects of the greater History

==Rough chronological order==
A less common approach is to read the saga in chronologically accurate order
*''The Silmarillion''
The Silmarillion can be a complex and tedious reading for someone not already acquainted with Tolkien, however it describes the beginnings of his world.
*''The Children of Húrin'', ''Beren and Lúthien'' and ''The Fall of Gondolin
These books give an extended version of the Great Tales of the Elder Days, featured as a part of the Silmarillion
*''Unfinished Tales''
Parts of this book give insight about Númenor, the Second Age (mentioned in the Silmarillion) and early Third Age, with elements that will play their role in the Lord of the Rings.
*''The Hobbit''
Althought directly unrelated to the Silmarillion, it is the next big story.
*''The Lord of the Rings''
The conclusion of the story of the Hobbit as well as things mentioned in the Silmarillion (like Sauron and the Line of Númenorean Kings).

==Exact chronological order==
{|
|''[[Ainulindalë]]''
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|-
|''[[Valaquenta]]''
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|-
|''[[Of the Beginning of Days]]''
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|-
|''[[Of Aulë and Yavanna]]''
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|-
|''[[Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor]]''
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|-
|''[[Of Thingol and Melian]]''
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|-
|''[[Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië]]''
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|-
|''[[Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor]]''
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|-
|''[[Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor]]''
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|-
|''[[Of the Darkening of Valinor]]''
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|-
|''[[Of the Flight of the Noldor]]''
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|-
|''[[Of the Sindar]]''
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|-
|''[[Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor]]''
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|-
|''[[Of Men]]''
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|-
|''[[Of the Return of the Noldor]]''
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|-
|''[[Of Beleriand and its Realms]]''
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|-
|''[[Of the Noldor in Beleriand]]''
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|-
|''[[Of Maeglin]]''
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|-
|''[[Of the Coming of Men into the West]]''
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|-
|''[[Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin]]''
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|-
|''[[Of Beren and Lúthien]]''
|''[[Lay of Leithian]]''
|-
|''[[Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]''
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|-
|''[[Of Túrin Turambar]]''
|The Children of Húrin
|-
|''[[Of the Ruin of Doriath]]''
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|-
|''[[Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin]]''
|''[[Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin]]''
|-
|''[[Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath]]''
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|-
|''[[Akallabêth]]''
|''[[Aldarion and Erendis: The Mariner's Wife|Aldarion and Erendis]]''
|-
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|}

==Medias in res order==
To avoid the spoilers of the chronological order (the ''ab ovo'' order) one can read the story of the Ring-war and look for background information, when it comes up.

[[The Hobbit]] from Chapter One to Chapter Three "A Short Rest"

Then the background story for the blades from [[Gondolin]]: [[The Fall of Gondolin]]

Then [[The Hobbit]] from Chapter Four to Chapter Seven "Queer Lodgings"

Then the background story for the [[Necromancer]]: [[The Tale of Tinúviel]]

Then [[The Hobbit]] from Chapter Eight to Chapter Nine "Barrels out of Bound"

Then the background story for the quarrel of the Elves and the Dwarves: [[The Nauglafring]]

Then [[The Hobbit]] from Chapter Ten to Chapter Nineteen "The Last Stage"

Then the last missing great Tale about the other famous Dragon-slayer: [[Túrin Turambar]]

Then [[The Fellowship of the Ring]] Book One Chapter One until Bilbo goes to Rivendell

There he is told the [[Ainulindale]].

Then The Fellowship of the Ring Book One Chapter Two to Book Two Chapter Two: "The Council of Elrond"

There the Second and early Third Age is discussed, so the [[Akallabeth]] and About the Rings of Power fit in.

Then one can follow through till the end of [[The Return of the King]].

While reading the [[Appendices]], the [[Quenta]] fits in [[Appendix A]], the [[Annals of Aman]] and the [[Grey Annals]] fit in [[Appendix B]], etc.

==External links==
*[http://www.chronology.org/tolkien/ Chronological Tolkien] discusses the issue and also provides a calculator to find the exact reading order.
*[http://home.earthlink.net/~dbratman/tolkien_order.html The order to read Tolkien's books] by [[David Bratman]]

[[Category:Fandom]]

Talk:Dragon-helm of Dor-lómin

2022-07-28T17:58:54Z

172.69.33.126: /* History section */

== Example Image? ==
I found an actual helm that fits almost perfectly the description of the Dragon-helm. It was made by the legendary armorer Filippo Negroli. You can see it [http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/12/2004/hm12_2_11_10_0.html here]. I'm wondering whether it would be appropriate to use the image in this article? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 01:33, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

:Good question. I've been wondering where we should draw the line as well, mainly with images approaching the Dungeons and Dragons or fantasy style opposed to strictly Tolkien. Maybe we can use the image and state it was a possible inspiration for the Professor? As long as we state the artist was not inspired by Middle-earth, I would be okay with it, a similar image is better than none at all. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:39, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

==History section==
I'm unsure of including the info about the destiny of the Helm beyond the Sack of Bar-en-Danwedh in the History section. That info is only given in notes and the final destiny still remains unknown. Instead I would point out that Túrin wore a dwarf-mask in Nargothrond and the Battle of Tumhalad, which is what Christopher included in his editions (info that he did not invented, but chose). --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 14:50, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

:The question Dragon-helm vs. Dwarf-mask is very important. Túrin can only find a Dwarf-mask in the armories of Nargothrond, if the dwarves had been there and had been working there. The involvement of dwarves in Nargothrond is something, that developed slowly and was not present in the Lost Tales. When Húrin came to Doriath, he brought in the Lost Tales the treasure, that was cursed by the dragon. Later he brought the nacklace of the dwarves, that was forged in Nargothrond already. But Tolkien never touched the original Tale of the Ruin of Doriath. So step by step a major contradiction developed. Christopher re-wrote the whole Doriath-chapter in his 1977 Silmarillion according to the idea, that the dwarves had been in Nargothrond already. But these notes by his father show, that this was not decided finally. That is, why it should be mentioned. This complex question is not restricted to the Helm vs. Mask, it influences more stories, e.g. Galadriel's sojourn in Beleriand during the First Age.--[[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.226|172.69.22.226]] 19:59, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

::Tolkien defined quite well the idea of Nargothrond as being constructed with the aid of Dwarves. In a note (recently published in TNOME) he even specified that the Petty-dwarves were the first who helped Finrod, but they betrayed him and the Dwarves of the Ered Luin came to do the job. So there is no contradiction at all in Nargothrond having dwarf-masks. The problem here is that Tolkien did not defined well enough the intricate travels of the Dragon-helm, nor its final destiny. IMO, it's better to make the same choice as Christopher and keep the version of the dwarf-mask in the History section, and leave those final notes to the OVOTL section. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 08:08, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

:::I do not dispute, that Tolkien had a clear conception about the construction of Nargothrond by the Dwarves, but he had competing conceptions of several Tales (cf. round earth vs. flat earth Ainulindale). The contradiction I am talking about is between the Túrin and the Ruin of Doriath story, not within the Túrin story. Christopher's choice is arbitrary and forced him to re-write the Ruin of Doriath in a way his father had not done. For pragmatical reasons I would suggest to explain both variants in the article, even if s.v. "Other versions... etc.". But we should not give preference to one version, because we don't know, what Tolkien would have done in the end. Christopher can't be an arbiter, because he has his own ideas and preferences, not necessarily shared by his father (He is focusing too much on the Lord of the Rings and excluding the Lost Tales and the Hobbit, because they were written before his time and for other family members). And I can understand, that many fans have difficulties with "notes", but this is normal philological business. I am fine with it, if we split it and give the information in different sections.--[[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.126|172.69.33.126]] 17:58, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

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Reading order

Talk:Dragon-helm of Dor-lómin