Talk:Durin's Bane

2022-07-28T18:21:16Z

172.69.33.42: /* When came the Balrog to Moria? */

==Main image==
The main image was changed months ago without discussion, but I propose to change it with [[:File:Ted Nasmith - Gandalf and the Balrog Upon Celebdil.jpg|this]] of the same artist, which is more detailed and is not already used. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 11:55, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

:I've just taken a look through the gallery and have to admit I prefer the [[:File:Ted Nasmith - At the Bridge.jpg|previous image]]. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:27, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

:Agreed with your choice, both are nice pictures and I don't mind which one is picked. [[User:Gaetano|Gaetano]] 22:06, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

==Gender?==
In this article, Durin's Bane is referred to as both "it" and "he". Which is more correct? -- [[User:Ancalagon the Black|Ancalagon the Black]] 17:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
:I'd say "he," since Durin's Bane is specifically referred to as a male by Gandalf in ''[[The Two Towers]]'' (Chapter 5 to be specific). --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 20:28, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

::In ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', [[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]], the Balrog is always referred to as "it". Some of that might come from its originally unknown nature, but even after Gimli identifies it as Durin's Bane, "it" is still used. But Holdwine Meriadoc is definitely right in that in Chapter 5 of ''[[The Two Towers]]'' ([[The White Rider]]), Gandalf always uses "he" when he gives his account of the encounter. I would go ahead and go with "he" here, which would make it consistent with the articles for [[Gothmog (balrog)]] and [[Lungorthin]]. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 02:58, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

:::Makes sense. Thank you both! -- [[User:Ancalagon the Black|Ancalagon the Black]] 03:24, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

== When came the Balrog to Moria? ==
In the article it is suggested, that this balrog escaped the battle at the end of the First Age and went to Moria. No references are given, and it doesn't make sense. Durin had discovered Moria during the First Age and there was no disturbance until Sauron came in the Second Age. So I don't see any possibility for this balrog to sneak in. I would rather suggest, that Melkor put him there himself, when he raised the [[Misty Mountains]] in the Days of the Trees, before the Elves came. Durin was laid under Mount Gundabad by Aule even before. --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.226|172.69.22.226]] 01:18, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
:Thanks for bringing that up. I agree with you, if we can't find a source for that statement then it should be removed. Feel free to remove/rephrase as you see fit. If you have any questions just let me know. We appreciate your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:07, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

:: {{quote|The Balrog is a survivor from the Silmarillion and the legends of the First Age. So is Shelob. The Balrogs, of whom the whips were the chief weapons, were primeval spirits of destroying fire, chief servants of the primeval Dark Power of the First Age. They were supposed to have been all destroyed in the overthrow of Thangorodrim, his fortress in the North. '''But it is here found (there is usually a hang-over especially of evil from one age to another) that one had escaped and taken refuge under the mountains of Hithaeglin (the Misty Mountains)'''.|''[[Letter 144]]''}} - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 01:20, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

:::Ivar saves the day! I've updated the article. Thank you! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:29, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

:::{{quote|Thus they roused from sleep a thing of terror that, flying from Thangorodrim, had lain hidden at the foundations of the earth since the coming of the Host of the West: a Balrog of Morgoth.|''{{App|Durin}}, fourth paragraph, p. 954}} One does not even need to look at the letter of J.R.R. Tolkien, the answer can be found in appendix A of The Lord of the Rings itself. I already added that reference to the Durin's Bane page. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 08:57, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

::: Great! Now there are references!--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.66|162.158.166.66]] 18:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

:Ivar is quoting Letter 144 and unfortunately I don't have the Letters with me. Is "Hithaeglin" a typo of Carpenter/Christopher or Ivar? It would correspond to the mistake on the map made by Christopher, corrected in the "Unfinished Tales". This would be interesting.--[[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.42|172.69.33.42]] 18:21, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

== Nameless Terror ==
Both the infobox and the article mention the name "Nameless Terror". I have searched The Lord of the Rings, Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth, The Peoples of Middle-earth and The Lord of the Rings - A Reader's Companion and could not find a use of the name "Nameless Terror" and could not find a source for that name. Does anybody know the source or is it an incorrect name? --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 09:55, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
:Definitely fanon. I've checked too and there is not trace of that name. The closest to it is in the Appendix A, in which he is called "thing of terror" and Aragorn mentioning "the coming of the Terror" in "The Mirror of Galadriel". I'll remove that now. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:10, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
:Durin's Bane is called "the nameless ''fear''" (not terror) by Gimli at the Council of Elrond. It's not clear if that was an established name or just a turn of phrase by Gimli. --[[User:Pachyderminator|Pachyderminator]] 17:23, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

::Nice catch! Not capitalized, so nope, not worthy. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:29, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

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Talk:Durin's Bane