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Thorin

2022-09-27T22:41:56Z

172.70.206.86: /* Films */

{{disambig-more|Thorin|[[Thorin (disambiguation)]]}}
{{dwarves infobox
| name=Thorin II
| image=[[File:Rodrigo Machado - Thorin Oakenshield.png|250px]]
| caption="Thorin Oakenshield" by [[Rodrigo Machado]]
| pronun=
| othernames=Thorin Oakenshield<ref name=AppA3>{{App|A3}}</ref>
| titles=[[Kings of Durin's Folk|King of Durin's Folk]]<ref name=AppA3/> [[King under the Mountain]]<ref name=H10>{{H|10}}</ref>
| position=
| location=[[Dunland]] [[Thorin's Halls]]<ref>{{UT|9}}</ref> [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]]<ref name=AppA3/>
| affiliation=[[Thorin and Company]]
| language=[[Khuzdul]] and [[Westron]]
| birth={{TA|2746}}
| birthlocation=[[Lonely Mountain]]
| rule={{TA|2850}}{{fact}} – {{TA|2941|n}}
| death={{TA|2941}}
| deathlocation=[[Battle of Five Armies]]
| age=195
| notablefor= [[Quest of Erebor|The Quest of Erebor]]
| house=[[House of Durin]]
| parentage=[[Thráin|Thráin II]]
| siblings=[[Frerin]], [[Dís]]
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=White beard<ref>{{HH|7iv}}</ref>
| eyes=
| clothing=Sky-blue hood with a long silver tassel,<ref name="H1">{{H|1}}</ref> coat of gold-plated rings,<ref name="H13"/> belt crusted with scarlet stones<ref name="H13">{{H|13}}</ref>
| weapons=[[Orcrist]] Silver-hafted axe<ref name="H13"/>
| steed=
}}
<center>{{quote|I am Thorin son of Thrain son of Thror King under the Mountain! I return!|Thorin in ''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[A Warm Welcome]]"}}</center>

'''Thorin II''', also known as '''Thorin [[Oakenshield]]''', was the [[Kings of Durin's Folk|King of Durin's Folk]] from {{TA|2850}} until his death in {{TA|2941}}, being the son of [[Thráin|Thráin II]], grandson of [[Thrór]] and older brother to [[Frerin]] and [[Dís]]. Thorin led [[Durin's Folk]] of the [[Blue Mountains]] during their time in exile. In {{TA|2941}} he led the [[Quest of Erebor|quest]] for [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]] accompanied by twelve [[Dwarves]], [[Bilbo Baggins]], and [[Gandalf|Gandalf the Grey]]; he briefly became [[King under the Mountain]] until he perished following the [[Battle of Five Armies]].<ref>{{App|A3}}; {{UT|9}}; {{H|10}}; {{App|B2}}</ref>

==History==
===Youth and exile===
Thorin was born in {{TA|2746}}, presumably in the Lonely Mountain where his grandfather, [[Thrór]], was King under the Mountain. Thorin was still a youngster (aged c. 24), by Dwarves' reckoning, when the dragon [[Smaug]] descended upon the mountain of Erebor in flames. Smaug left the mannish town of [[Dale]] in ruins and killed many dwarves who were inside the mountain. Thrór and Thráin (Thorin's father) escaped using a secret [[Back Door]]. Meanwhile Thorin was one of the few Dwarves who were not inside the mountain at the time. Thus the surviving [[Dwarves of Erebor]] were driven into exile and Thrór, Thráin, and Thorin fled south and ended up to [[Dunland]].<ref name=AppA3/><ref name=H1/>

===War of the Dwarves and Orcs===
Disillusioned, Thorin's grandfather Thrór wandered to the [[Great Gates|Eastern gate]] of [[Moria]], the old mansion of the [[Longbeards]], now infested by [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains|Orcs]]. He entered it and ended up murdered and desecrated by the Orc [[Azog]]. These news were brought by his companion [[Nár]] to Thráin, thus the [[War of the Dwarves and Orcs]] began.<ref name=AppA3/>
[[File:Mikel Janin - Battle of Azanulbizar.jpeg|left|thumb|''Battle of Azanulbizar'' by [[:Category:Images by Mikel Janin|Mikel Janin]]]]
The war was fought long and hard between the two races, ultimately ending in a pyrrhic Dwarven victory at the [[Battle of Azanulbizar]] in {{TA|2799}}. Both Thráin and Thorin were wounded during this battle and [[Frerin]] (Thorin's brother) was killed. When his shield broke, in its stead he used an [[Oaks|oak]] branch to block the blows of his foes.<ref>{{App|A3}}, note 46.</ref> Despite victory no Dwarf dared to re-enter [[Moria]] out of fear of [[Durin's Bane]].<ref>{{App|A3}}; {{App|B2}}</ref>

In memory of this, Thorin swore to always bear a plain shield of oak with no device until he should be hailed king,<ref>{{PM|Aiv}}</ref> and thus he earned the epithet '''Oakenshield'''.

===Return into exile===
[[File:Charles Burggraf - We will get it back.jpg|thumb|right|left|''"We will get it back"'' by [[:Category:Images by Charles Burggraf|Charles Burggraf]]]]
Thráin, Thorin, and the other survivors of [[Durin's Folk]] left Azanulbizar and returned to [[Dunland]]. However they soon began to wander [[Eriador]] before settling at last in the [[Blue Mountains]]. Here they prospered in their own fashion, forging iron objects and increasing their numbers (albeit, due to a scarceness of [[Dwarf-women]], very slowly, and by wandering Longbeards who heard of his dwelling). Nonetheless they all still longed to return to the Lonely Mountain.<ref name=AppA3/>

By this time Thráin was in possession of [[Ring of Thrór|the last]] of the [[Seven Rings]] of power. It is possible that as [[Sauron]]'s power grew so too did the ring's influence over Thráin. His burning desire for gold and to return to the Lonely Mountain became too great and in {{TA|2841}} he set out to return. Thorin, then aged ninety-five, was never to see his father again, as Sauron captured and imprisoned Thráin in [[Dol Guldur]]. Thus it was that around Thráin 's disappearance and death ({{TA|2850}}) Thorin became the [[Kings of Durin's Folk|King of Durin's Folk]]. Thorin and his people were content living in the [[Blue Mountains]] and [[Eriador]] but as the years waned Thorin's desire to return to Erebor grew.<ref>{{App|A3}}; {{App|B2}}</ref>

===Quest for Erebor===

====A new hope====
{{quote|Listen to me, Thorin Oakenshield! [...] If this hobbit goes with you, you will succeed. If not, you will fail. A foresight is on me, and I am warning you.|[[Gandalf]]<ref name="UT9">{{UT|9}}</ref>}}
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gandalf and Thorin.jpg|thumb|''Gandalf and Thorin'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]
The fortunes of the House of Durin changed when Thorin met [[Gandalf]] by chance in {{TA|2941}}.<ref group="note">Different accounts dispute the exact location of this first meeting. One source states that it occurred at an Inn in [[Bree]]. Whilst another states that Thorin started talking to Gandalf when he overtook him on the road.</ref> They then proceeded to go to [[Thorin's Halls]]. There they discussed their tales and Gandalf formulated a plan. Gandalf knew that Sauron could have potentially used Smaug with devastating effect. Therefore both he and Thorin had a shared interest in removing Smaug. Gandalf wanted Thorin and a company of dwarves to travel to the Lonely Mountain taking [[Bilbo Baggins]] with them. Gandalf's instinct was that the [[Quest of Erebor]] would only be successful if Bilbo accompanied them.

Therefore Gandalf invited Thorin and other Dwarves to [[Hobbiton]] of [[the Shire]], instructing them to look for a [[Smials|smial]] whose door was marked with the sign of the thief (as the dwarves had gotten it into their head that Bilbo was a thief). Thus Thorin found himself in [[Bag End]], where they perused the hobbit's hospitality. However, Thorin and the dwarves were not convinced; it was not until Gandalf revealed [[Thrór's Map]] and key that Thorin was convinced that the quest would be profitable to him. Even after the "[[An Unexpected Party|Unexpected Party]]" Gandalf only persuaded Thorin to take Bilbo on the morning that they set off.<ref>{{App|A3}}; {{UT|9}}</ref>

Thus it was that in {{TA|2941}} Thorin set off for the Lonely Mountain with Gandalf, Bilbo Baggins, [[Fíli]], [[Kíli]], [[Balin]], [[Dwalin]], [[Dori]], [[Nori]], [[Ori]], [[Óin]], [[Glóin]], [[Bifur]], [[Bofur]], and [[Bombur]]. A short time into the journey the adventurers found a Troll's cave. Here they found a hoard of treasure which included blades made in the ancient city of [[Gondolin]]. Bilbo found a knife that he named [[Sting]], Gandalf acquired [[Glamdring]] and meanwhile Thorin found [[Orcrist]].<ref>{{H|2}}</ref> Whilst [[Thorin and Company]] were in [[Rivendell]] [[Elrond]] read the inscriptions on the blades and informed them of their sword's histories. He also read the [[moon-letters]] on Thrór's map; it read "''stand by the grey stone when the thrush knocks [...] and the setting sun with the last light of [[Durin's Day]] will shine upon the keyhole.''"<ref>{{H|3}}</ref>

====Return of the King under the Mountain====
[[File:David T. Wenzel - Thorin in Esgaroth.jpg|thumb|left|''Thorin in Esgaroth'' by [[David T. Wenzel]]]]
Upon reaching [[Lake-town|Esgaroth]], the closest settlement to the Lonely Mountain, Thorin was greeted warmly and the men of Lake-town hailed the return of the [[King under the Mountain]].<ref name="H10">{{H|10}}</ref> They soon reached the Lonely Mountain itself and "''with the last light of Durin's Day''" they found the secret side-door, using the key to open it.<ref>{{H|11}}</ref> Thorin sent Bilbo in to carry out his duty as their 'esteemed burglar'. This enraged Smaug who sought to destroy the burglar and take out his vengeance on the [[Lake-men]].<ref>{{H|12}}</ref> The dragon was slain by [[Bard]] who pierced an un-armoured spot on the dragon's underside <ref>{{H|14}}</ref> with a [[Black Arrow]].

Upon hearing the news of the death of Smaug, Thorin fortified the main entrance to the mountain. Hosts of [[Elves of Mirkwood|Wood-elves]] and Lake-men approached the mountain led by the [[Thranduil|Elvenking]] and Bard respectively. Thorin refused to consider Bard's claim to a share in the treasure until the Elven-host had withdrawn. Refusing to send away the Elves, Bard pronounced the mountain under siege until Thorin would give them their part of the treasure. Then Thorin sent for his cousin, [[Dáin Ironfoot]], who brought more than five-hundred Dwarves from the [[Iron Hills]].<ref>{{H|15}}; {{H|16}}</ref> Bilbo sought to bring an end to the dispute; to this end he secretly gave the [[Arkenstone]] to Bard and the Elvenking to use in making a deal with Thorin. When Thorin heard about Bilbo's actions he was furious and cast him out of the company.<ref>{{H|17}}</ref>

====Death====
[[File:Darrell Sweet - The Death of Thorin Oakenshield.jpg|thumb|right|''The Death of Thorin Oakenshield'' by [[Darrell Sweet]]]]
However, all disputes were cast aside when the army of [[Bolg]], Azog's son, suddenly attacked. Thus the three armies of [[Elves]], [[Men]], and [[Dwarves]] united against the two armies of [[Orcs|Goblins]] and [[Wargs]]: the [[Battle of Five Armies]] had begun. As the battle drew on, Thorin leapt from the front gate and rallied all Elves, Men, and Dwarves to him. The armies of the [[free peoples]] of [[Middle-earth]] emerged triumphant. Nonetheless [[Kíli]] and [[Fíli]] were killed and Thorin was gravely wounded. On his deathbed Thorin apologised to Bilbo for his angry words and deeds. He commended his good character, courage and friendship, saying that ''"if more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."'' With that, he died. He was laid to rest deep within the Lonely Mountain. [[Bard]] of [[Dale]] placed the Arkenstone upon Thorin's chest, whilst the Elvenking laid Orcrist upon Thorin's tomb.<ref>{{H|17}}; {{H|18}}</ref>

==Characteristics==
===Appareance===
{{quote|It was Thorin, but you could only have told it by his golden chain, and by the colour of his now dirty and tattered sky-blue hood with its tarnished silver tassel.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[Barrels Out of Bond]]"}}

Thorin had a white beard<ref name=History>{{HH|7iv}}</ref> and wore a sky-blue hood with a long silver tassel. Around his neck he wore a golden chain, upon which he attached his grandfather's key.<ref name="H1"/> He wore a belt of gold and jewels,<ref name=History></ref> and his stockings were yellow. He was also said to be quite tall for a dwarf, though his height was otherwise negligible compared to other races.<ref name="H2">{{H|2}}</ref>

===Personality===
{{quote|Thorin did not live to enjoy his triumph or his treasure. Pride and greed overcame him in spite of my warning.|[[Gandalf]]<ref name="UT9"/>}}

Thorin was capable of being stubborn, proud, and greedy. According to Gandalf he was, from the beginning, contemptuous about the notion that [[Bilbo Baggins|Bilbo]] should go with him on his long-desired adventure to the Lonely Mountain; he thought that Gandalf was trying to mock him and make him look foolish. Indeed, Thorin found it difficult to accept the advice of Gandalf at all, believing that he should have been drawing plans for war and battle rather than planning to use a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] as a burglar. He gradually came to respect the Hobbit's value to his quest as Bilbo again and again proved his stealth and courage. Thorin's most coveted prize was the [[Arkenstone]], something which Bilbo believed was not only the heart of the mountain but the heart of Thorin also.<ref>{{UT|9}}; {{H|17}}; {{H|18}}</ref>

Another one of his distinctive characteristics was that on important occasions he had the habit of going on "without telling any one there anything that was not known already".<ref>{{H|1}}</ref> Once he referred to Fíli and Kíli as "sons of my father's daughter" rather than "nephews" or "sister-sons", for instance.<ref>{{H|10}}</ref>

===Weapons===
Thorin was a formidable swordsman, archer, and skilled military leader, capable of rallying Men, Elves and Dwarves to his side in the Battle of the Five Armies. He was the owner of the elven blade known as Orcrist, The Goblin Cleaver, a legendary sword from Gondolin that was said to have slain hundreds of goblins. When orcs or goblins were nearby, it glowed blue. He used this blade throughout the entire Quest of Erebor, but was taken from him during his capture in Mirkwood. It was then later laid on his tomb, after his death to warn Erebor of any oncoming dark forces that would dare try to take over the Mountain

==Etymology==
Thorin's name is one from the ''[[Völuspá|Dvergatal]]''. It means "Bold".<ref>Chester Nathan Gould, "Dwarf-Names: A Study in Old Icelandic Religion", published in ''Publications of the Modern Language Association of America'', Vol 44 (1929), issue #4, pp. 939-967</ref>

==Genealogy==
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;">{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | NAI | | | | | | | | |NAI=[[Náin II]] ''{{TA|2338|n}} - {{TA|2585|n}}''}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | DAI | | | | | | | | | | | | BOR | | | | | | |DAI=[[Dáin I]] ''{{TA|2440|n}} - {{TA|2589|n}}''†| BOR=[[Borin]] ''{{TA|2450|n}} - {{TA|2711|n}}''}}
{{familytree| | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | THR | | FRO | | GRO | | | | | | | | FAR | | | | | | |THR=[[Thrór]] ''{{TA|2542|n}} - {{TA|2790|n}}''†|FRO=[[Frór]] ''{{TA|2552|n}} - {{TA|2589|n}}''†|GRO=[[Grór]] ''{{TA|2563|n}} - {{TA|2805|n}}''|FAR=[[Farin]] ''{{TA|2560|n}} - {{TA|2803|n}}''}}
{{familytree| | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | |,|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|.| | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | THR | | | | | | NAI | | | | FUN | | | | | | GRO | | |THR=[[Thráin|Thráin II]] ''{{TA|2644|n}} - {{TA|2850|n}}''†|NAI=[[Náin (son of Grór)|Náin]] ''{{TA|2665|n}} - {{TA|2799|n}}''†|FUN=[[Fundin]] ''{{TA|2662|n}} - {{TA|2799|n}}''†|GRO=[[Gróin]] ''{{TA|2671|n}} - {{TA|2923|n}}''}}
{{familytree| | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| | THO | | FRE | | DIS | | DAI | | BAL | | DWA | | OIN | | GLO |THO='''THORIN II''' ''{{TA|2746|n}} - {{TA|2941|n}}''†|FRE=[[Frerin]] ''{{TA|2751|n}} - {{TA|2799|n}}''†|DIS=[[Dís]] ''b. {{TA|2760|n}}''|BAL=[[Balin]] ''{{TA|2763|n}} - {{TA|2994|n}}''†|DWA=[[Dwalin]] ''{{TA|2772|n}} - {{FoA|91}}''|OIN=[[Óin]] ''{{TA|2774|n}} - {{TA|2994|n}}''|GLO=[[Glóin]] ''{{TA|2783|n}} - {{FoA|15}}''|DAI=[[Dáin Ironfoot|Dáin II]] ''{{TA|2767|n}} - {{TA|3019|n}}''†}}
{{familytree| | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | FIL | | KIL | | THO | | | | | | | | | | | | | | GIM |FIL=[[Fíli]] ''{{TA|2859|n}} - {{TA|2941|n}}''†|KIL=[[Kíli]] ''{{TA|2864|n}} - {{TA|2941|n}}''†|THO=[[Thorin Stonehelm|Thorin III]] ''b. {{TA|2866|n}}''|GIM=[[Gimli]] ''{{TA|2879|n}} - {{FoA|120}}''+}}
{{familytree/end}}
</div>

The epithet "[[Oakenshield]]" also comes from the ''Dvergatal''. ''Eikinskjaldi'' means "Oakenshield", and it has long been considered the name of a Dwarf. However, because the name appears twice, both in Dúrinn's and Dválinn's line, it has also been suggested that it simply means "with an oaken shield".<ref>P.H. Salus, Taylor Beekman, "[http://pao.chadwyck.co.uk.proxy-ub.rug.nl/articles/displayItemPage.do?FormatType=fulltextimages&QueryType=articles&ResultsID=12E4F77F8FAA34BB2&ItemNumber=9&PageNumber=1 'Eikinskjaldi, Fjalarr', and 'Eggþer': Notes on Dwarves and Giants in the 'Völuspá'"], published in ''[[wikipedia:Neophilologus|Neophilologus]]'' Vol 53 (1969), Issue #1, pp. 76-81</ref>

==Other versions of the legendarium==
In early manuscripts of ''[[The Hobbit]]'', the name ''[[Gandalf]]'' was used by Tolkien for the character who later would be named "Thorin Oakenshield" in the published works.<ref>{{HH|Intro}}</ref>

==Portrayal in adaptations==
{{Gallery
|title=Thorin in adaptations
|height=150
|width=200
|lines=2
|File:The Hobbit (1966 film) - Thorin.png|Thorin in [[The Hobbit (1966 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1966 film)]].
|File:The Hobbit (1977 film) - Thorin.jpg|Thorin in [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]
|File:The Hobbit (2003) Thorin.JPG|Thorin in [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|Sierra's The Hobbit]]
|File:Thorin II-LOTRO1.png|Thorin in [[The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar]]
|File:The Hobbit (film series) - Thorin and Orcrist.jpg|Thorin in [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]
}}
===Films===
'''1966: [[The Hobbit (1966 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1966 film)]]:'''
:Thorin Oakenshield is the commander of the garrison of [[Dale]]. He is not a royal.<ref name="Deitch">{{webcite|articleurl=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UBnVL1Y2src|articlename=The Hobbit.mp4|dated=5 January 2012|website=YouTube|accessed=10 January 2012}}</ref>

'''1977: [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]:'''
:Thorin's voice is provided by [[Hans Conried]].

'''2012: ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]'':'''
:Thorin was portrayed by [[Richard Armitage]].<ref name="PJCasting">{{webcite|author=[[Peter Jackson]]|articleurl=http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150168211921558|articlename=Production begins in New Zealand on The Hobbit|dated=20-March-2011|website=[http://www.facebook.com/ Facebook]|accessed=23-Dec-2011}}</ref> Unlike many other adaptations where Thorin is depicted as white-haired, Thorin is portrayed as younger looking (in the original book he was the oldest of the [[Dwarves]] in the [[Thorin and Company|Company]]; in the movies he appears to be roughly in the middle of the thirteen age-wise). Thorin, however, does have streaks of gray in his black hair.

:In the prologue which flashes back to the [[Sack of Erebor]], Thorin is shown to be a natural leader, and is distressed when [[Thranduil]] and his army do not come to the Dwarves' aid. Later, during a flashback to the [[Battle of Azanulbizar]] (referred to as the '''Battle of [[Moria]]''' in these films), his natural leadership is again on display, when rallying the troops after maiming [[Azog]] the Defiler ([[Dáin Ironfoot]], who killed Azog during this battle in the book, is not present at all).

:Thorin shows up later than expected at [[Bag End]]. He is thoroughly sceptical of [[Gandalf]]'s choice of [[Bilbo Baggins|Bilbo]] as the fourteenth member of the Company, but the [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] finally earns his approval after attempting to save him from Azog and his [[Orcs|Orc]] pack. After this ordeal, Gandalf revives him on the [[Carrock]].

:Prior to obtaining Orcrist, Thorin wields a Dwarven sword named Deathless.

'''2013: ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]'':'''
:Thorin is captured by the [[Elves of Mirkwood]] along with all of the other Dwarves. He refuses to bargain with Thranduil on order to set them all free, still holding a grudge over the Elven-king not helping his people while [[Smaug]] destroyed their home.

:After the Dwarves are caught trying to steal weapons out of the armoury in [[Lake-town]], Thorin promises the people a share of the treasure if the Company is allowed to reclaim their kingdom. After Bilbo's audience with Smaug, he leads the Dwarves in a battle in an attempt to defeat the [[Dragons|Dragon]] by drowning him in molten gold. The plan fails, however, and Smaug instead heads off in a rage to Lake-town.

'''2014: ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'':'''
:While searching the treasure hoard inside the Mountain for the [[Arkenstone]], Thorin increasingly falls prey to Dragon sickness. He begins to be paranoid that the other Dwarves are scheming against him. He orders the other Dwarves to put up barricades to prevent anyone else from entering the Mountain, even as the [[Battle of Five Armies]] commences. He eventually overcomes his sickness and comes to his senses, leading the members of the Company into battle.

:On [[Ravenhill]], he attempts to take out the Orc army's leader, and old nemesis, Azog (with the help of [[Fíli]], [[Kíli]] and [[Dwalin]]). After his nephews are killed, Thorin takes on the Pale Orc one-on-one (and, in the process, gets [[Orcrist]] back from [[Legolas]]). He manages to get Azog to fall into a frozen lake, but the Orc stabs through the ice and mortally wounds him. With his last strength, Thorin plunges Orcrist into Azog's chest, finally killing him. Soon after, right before succumbing to his wounds, he makes amends with Bilbo, and dies right there on the lake.

===Radio series===
'''1968: [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]]:'''
:Thorin's voice is provided by [[John Justin]].

'''1979: [[The Hobbit (1979 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''
:Thorin's voice is provided by Tom Luce.

'''1980: [[Der Hobbit (1980 German radio series)|''Der Hobbit'' (1980 German radio series)]]:'''
:Thorin is played by Heinz Schlacht.

'''1989: [[Hobit (1989 Slovak radio series)|''Hobit'' (1989 Slovak radio series)]]:'''
:Thorin's voice is provided by Ľubomír Roman.

===Games===
'''1982: [[The Hobbit (1982 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (1982 video game)]]:'''
:Thorin is the only companion of the player, [[Bilbo Baggins]].<ref>''[http://www.worldofspectrum.org/showmag.cgi?mag=ZXComputing/Issue8304/Pages/ZXComputing830400076.jpg ZX Computing]'', 8304 (April/May 1983), p. 76 (accessed 24 March 2011)</ref>

'''2003: [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]:'''
:Thorin's voice is provided by [[Clive Revill]].

'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''
:Thorin plays no role in the major storyline, but makes a brief appearance in a flashback taking place in {{TA|2941}}, just before the company sets off on their journey to the [[Lonely Mountain]]. He, along with his nephews [[Fíli]] and [[Kíli]], are entombed within Mazal Akrâz, the Chamber of Glory, deep within [[Erebor]].

'''2014: ''[[Lego The Hobbit: The Video Game]]'':'''
:Thorin appears as he is in the movies, but in the form of a LEGO minifigure. He is voiced by Richard Armitage.

{{references|n}}
{{seq-start}}
{{seq-head
| race=dwarf
| name=Thorin II
| house=[[House of Durin]]
| born={{TA|2746}}
| died={{TA|2941}}
}}
{{seq
|prev=[[Thráin|Thráin II]]
|next=[[Dáin Ironfoot|Dáin II Ironfoot]]
|nrow=2
|list=[[Kings of Durin's Folk|King of Durin's Folk]]
|dates={{TA|2850}} – {{TA|2941}}
}}
{{seq
|pvac=None
|prev=[[Thrór]], 170 years earlier
|list=4th [[King under the Mountain]]
|dates={{TA|2941}}
}}
{{seq-end}}

{{durinskings}}
{{Thorin and Company}}
{{companyroute}}
{{hobbitfilms}}
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]
[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:Kings of Durin's Folk]]
[[Category:Kings under the Mountain]]
[[Category:Longbeards]]
[[Category:Norse names]]
[[Category:Third Age characters]]
[[de:Thorin II.]]
[[fi:Thorin II Tammikilpi]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/nains/3a/thorin_ii]]

Talk:Durin's Bane

2022-07-30T06:57:43Z

172.70.206.86: /* When came the Balrog to Moria? */

==Main image==
The main image was changed months ago without discussion, but I propose to change it with [[:File:Ted Nasmith - Gandalf and the Balrog Upon Celebdil.jpg|this]] of the same artist, which is more detailed and is not already used. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 11:55, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

:I've just taken a look through the gallery and have to admit I prefer the [[:File:Ted Nasmith - At the Bridge.jpg|previous image]]. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:27, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

:Agreed with your choice, both are nice pictures and I don't mind which one is picked. [[User:Gaetano|Gaetano]] 22:06, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

==Gender?==
In this article, Durin's Bane is referred to as both "it" and "he". Which is more correct? -- [[User:Ancalagon the Black|Ancalagon the Black]] 17:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
:I'd say "he," since Durin's Bane is specifically referred to as a male by Gandalf in ''[[The Two Towers]]'' (Chapter 5 to be specific). --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 20:28, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

::In ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', [[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]], the Balrog is always referred to as "it". Some of that might come from its originally unknown nature, but even after Gimli identifies it as Durin's Bane, "it" is still used. But Holdwine Meriadoc is definitely right in that in Chapter 5 of ''[[The Two Towers]]'' ([[The White Rider]]), Gandalf always uses "he" when he gives his account of the encounter. I would go ahead and go with "he" here, which would make it consistent with the articles for [[Gothmog (balrog)]] and [[Lungorthin]]. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 02:58, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

:::Makes sense. Thank you both! -- [[User:Ancalagon the Black|Ancalagon the Black]] 03:24, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

== When came the Balrog to Moria? ==
In the article it is suggested, that this balrog escaped the battle at the end of the First Age and went to Moria. No references are given, and it doesn't make sense. Durin had discovered Moria during the First Age and there was no disturbance until Sauron came in the Second Age. So I don't see any possibility for this balrog to sneak in. I would rather suggest, that Melkor put him there himself, when he raised the [[Misty Mountains]] in the Days of the Trees, before the Elves came. Durin was laid under Mount Gundabad by Aule even before. --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.226|172.69.22.226]] 01:18, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
:Thanks for bringing that up. I agree with you, if we can't find a source for that statement then it should be removed. Feel free to remove/rephrase as you see fit. If you have any questions just let me know. We appreciate your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:07, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

:: {{quote|The Balrog is a survivor from the Silmarillion and the legends of the First Age. So is Shelob. The Balrogs, of whom the whips were the chief weapons, were primeval spirits of destroying fire, chief servants of the primeval Dark Power of the First Age. They were supposed to have been all destroyed in the overthrow of Thangorodrim, his fortress in the North. '''But it is here found (there is usually a hang-over especially of evil from one age to another) that one had escaped and taken refuge under the mountains of Hithaeglin (the Misty Mountains)'''.|''[[Letter 144]]''}} - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 01:20, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

:::Ivar saves the day! I've updated the article. Thank you! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:29, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

:::{{quote|Thus they roused from sleep a thing of terror that, flying from Thangorodrim, had lain hidden at the foundations of the earth since the coming of the Host of the West: a Balrog of Morgoth.|''{{App|Durin}}, fourth paragraph, p. 954}} One does not even need to look at the letter of J.R.R. Tolkien, the answer can be found in appendix A of The Lord of the Rings itself. I already added that reference to the Durin's Bane page. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 08:57, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

::: Great! Now there are references!--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.66|162.158.166.66]] 18:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

:Ivar is quoting Letter 144 and unfortunately I don't have the Letters with me. Is "Hithaeglin" a typo of Carpenter/Christopher or Ivar? It would correspond to the mistake on the map made by Christopher, corrected in the "Unfinished Tales". This would be interesting.--[[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.42|172.69.33.42]] 18:21, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

::Letter 144 is dated 25 April 1954. It uses the spelling "Hithaeglin" (i.e. with an "n" at the end). Have you looked on The First Map of The Lord of the Rings (i.e. the one with the electronic label MIDDLE-EARTH on archive.org on the maps page of the Tolkien Estate? J.R.R. Tolkien's handwriting is notoriously hard to read and the Sindarin name in square brackets on the east side of the northern end of the Misty mountains can be (errouneously) interpreted as Hithaeglin. The map is interesting, because it contains some additional features, such as the downs in the Eastemenet and the mountains are shown as contour lines like on the Map of Rohan, Gondor, and Mordor. Like Christopher Tolkien's General Map of Middle-earth, which is based on this map it shows a larger area of Middle-earth including a part of Harad below Umbar. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 07:55, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

:::This is interesting. Yes, I know this map and that Tolkien's handwriting is difficult. Christopher corrected the wrong spelling in 1980 in the map published with the Unfinished Tales and in 1981 in the Letters the spelling is wrong again. This is odd.--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.86|172.70.206.86]] 06:57, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

== Nameless Terror ==
Both the infobox and the article mention the name "Nameless Terror". I have searched The Lord of the Rings, Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth, The Peoples of Middle-earth and The Lord of the Rings - A Reader's Companion and could not find a use of the name "Nameless Terror" and could not find a source for that name. Does anybody know the source or is it an incorrect name? --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 09:55, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
:Definitely fanon. I've checked too and there is not trace of that name. The closest to it is in the Appendix A, in which he is called "thing of terror" and Aragorn mentioning "the coming of the Terror" in "The Mirror of Galadriel". I'll remove that now. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:10, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
:Durin's Bane is called "the nameless ''fear''" (not terror) by Gimli at the Council of Elrond. It's not clear if that was an established name or just a turn of phrase by Gimli. --[[User:Pachyderminator|Pachyderminator]] 17:23, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

::Nice catch! Not capitalized, so nope, not worthy. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:29, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Fathers of the Dwarves

2022-07-30T01:38:01Z

172.70.206.86: /* Other versions of the legendarium */

[[File:Ted Nasmith - Aulë and the Seven Fathers.jpg|thumb|''Aulë and the Seven Fathers'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]
The Seven '''Fathers of the Dwarves''' were the first of their race.

==History==
The [[Valar|Vala]] [[Aulë]] created the [[Dwarves]] because he was impatient for the arising of the [[Children of Ilúvatar]] ([[Elves]] and [[Men]]) and he wished for children to love and instruct. It was the period known as the [[Sleep of Yavanna]] when [[Middle-earth]] was dark and silent and was roamed by monsters from [[Utumno]]. For this, Aulë made them strong and resistant and able to endure hardships; but as he had only a vague impression of the Children of Ilúvatar, his creations were structured differently, shorter and stunted.<ref name="Aule"/>

He created seven [[Dwarves]], and was teaching them the language he had devised for them ([[Khuzdul]]), but Aulë was not Ilúvatar who had the [[Secret Fire|Flame Imperishable]] and his children were dumb, able to move and speak only if he wished so, and would remain motionless whenever Aule would think elsewhere.<ref name="Aule"/>
[[File:Ted_Nasmith_-_Aulë_the_Destroyer.jpg|thumb|left|''Aulë Prepares to Destroy His Children'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]
Ilúvatar confronted him for his impatience. Aulë offered his creations to Ilúvatar and was ready to break them in repentance. But Ilúvatar accepted his offer and gave them life of their own, and the Dwarves started cowering and pleading for mercy despite Aule's will.<ref name="Aule">{{S|Aule}}</ref>

However, the Fathers of the Dwarves had to wait until the Elves first arrived, and Aulë laid them to rest in various places in Middle-earth.<ref name="Aule"/> The eldest of all, [[Durin]], "lay alone" at [[Gundabad|Mount Gundabad]] in the north of the [[Misty Mountains]].<ref name="Dwarves">{{PM|Dwarves}}</ref> He later founded the line of the '''[[Durin's Folk|Longbeards]]''' (or ''Sigin-tarâg'' in Khuzdul), the Dwarves which were most friendly to the Elves and Men, mostly referred to as [[Durin's Folk]]. His city was [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]].<ref name="Durin">{{App|Durin}}</ref>

Two others were laid to rest in the [[Ered Luin]] or ''Blue Mountains'', and they founded the lines of the '''[[Broadbeams]]''' and the '''[[Firebeards]]''' who later lived in [[Nogrod]] and [[Belegost]]. The other four Fathers of the Dwarves were laid to rest in two pairs in [[Rhûn]]; lands at least as far east of Mount Gundabad as it lay east of the Blue Mountains. They founded the lines of the '''[[Ironfists]]''', '''[[Stiffbeards]]''', '''[[Blacklocks]]''', and '''[[Stonefoots]]'''.<ref name="Dwarves"/>

It was said that the Seven Fathers would return to life after generations among their own folk.<ref name="Aule"/> This did not mean reincarnation, however. Rather, the bodies of the Fathers would be preserved, and their spirits would return to the bodies and live once more.<ref>{{NM|P2xv}}p. 264-265</ref> Durin was known to return to life [[Durin (disambiguation)|six more times]]. <ref name="Durin"/>

Of the Fathers of the Dwarves, only Durin is said to have "lain alone".<ref name="Durin"/>

==Other versions of the legendarium==
The reference to Durin being alone can be interpreted as referring to the fact that, in older versions of the story, Durin alone had no female companion (references are made by Tolkien to the "Thirteen Dwarves" created by Aulë, Durin and the six pairs{{fact}}) but later it meant that Durin was indeed laid down to rest alone while the other Fathers were laid to rest as three pairs. In that same conception, Tolkien considered that there were other Dwarves made that were put to sleep beside their Fathers; Durin would be again an exception, as he created his Folk by gathering Dwarves from other clans during his wanders.<ref>{{PM|XNotes}}, #24</ref>

In the [[Lost Tales]] there were only two groups of Dwarves, the Nauglath of [[Nogrod]] under their king Naugladur and the Indrafangs, the [[Longbeards]] of [[Belegost]] under their king Bodruith.<ref>[[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.) 1984: The History of Middle-earth, vol. 2, [[The Book of Lost Tales]], Part Two, pp. 223, 230, 233.</ref> They live south of Artanor ([[Doriath]]).<ref>[[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.)1984: The History of Middle-earth, vol. 2, [[The Book of Lost Tales]], part two, p. 225.</ref>

==Inspiration==
According to the ''Tolkien Encyclopedia'', Aulë's creation of the Dwarves is [[sub-creation]] which aims to honor the wider Creation of God/Eru, a concept expressed in ''[[Mythopoeia]]''; "and may indicate anxieties about the independent value of art."<ref>[[Michael D.C. Drout]], ed., ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]'', p. 134</ref>

{{References}}
[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[de:Zwerge#Die_sieben_Väter_der_Zwerge]]
[[fi:Kääpiöiden Seitsemän Isää]]