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Haldir

2005-09-30T05:49:15Z

66.75.206.249:

'''Haldir''' was an [[Elves|Elf]] of [[Lothlórien]], probably a [[Wood-elves|Silvan Elf]]: a marchwarden who guarded the forest's northern borders. When the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] arrived in Lórien, he became their guide to [[Caras Galadhon]]. He and his companions are described as wearing grey hooded cloaks and live on platforms in the trees.

Haldir was accompanied by his brothers, [[Rúmil]] and [[Orophin]], who interacted little with the Fellowship because they, unlike Haldir, spoke little of the [[Common Tongue]]. Little is known about them.
*'''Orophin''' may have been named after the [[Sindarin]] Lord [[Oropher]] of [[Mirkwood]].
*'''Rúmil''' was probably named after the [[Rúmil|Elf of the same name]] who developed the first Elven writing system.

Haldir was one of the few Elves of Lórien who could speak [[Westron]]. He had clearly ''heard of'' [[Aragorn]], but there is no indication that they had met previously.

== In the movies ==

In [[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings movie trilogy|movie trilogy]] he was played by [[Craig Parker]] and his role was greatly expanded. In addition to being the Fellowship's guide in Lothlórien, in the second movie he leads a regiment of Elven archers from Lórien to the [[Battle of Helm's Deep]], where he is eventually slain, along with many of his archers.

In the books, there were no Elves at Helm's Deep, nor do Elves participate in any of the other battles. Although the [[Half-elven]] [[Elladan]] and [[Elrohir]] did turn up at [[Dunharrow]], this was after the Battle of the Hornburg had ended. It is also doubtful that Haldir had the authority to command such a large group, since he leads only a small group of border guards.

There is also no mention of Haldir's death in any of the books. Haldir encountered the [[Fellowship]] between [[January]] 15 and [[February]] 16 3019 T.A. and it is generally believed that he lived long before and after this period. It is however likely that he was born in the Second or Third Age, since another [[Haldir]] (a [[Men (Middle-earth)|Man]]) lived in the [[First Age]], and Elves seldom used names which already existed.

[[Category:Elves]]

Balrogs

2005-09-18T17:33:24Z

66.75.206.249:

==Balrogs briefly==

A '''Balrog''' ([[Sindarin]] for "Demon of Might"; the [[Quenya]] form is '''''Valarauko''''' or '''''Valarauco'''''') was a tall, menacing creature made equally of fire and shadow and with a fiery [[Whip (implement)|whip]] of many thongs. They induced great terror in friends and foes alike and could shroud themselves in darkness and shadow. [[Gandalf]] defeated a Balrog while the Fellowship of the Ring escaped [[Moria (Middle-earth)|Moria]] in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' (specifically, in Book II, the second half of ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'').

The Balrogs were originally [[Maiar]], of the same order as [[Sauron]] and Gandalf, but they became seduced by [[Morgoth]], who corrupted them to his service in the days of his splendour before the coming of the [[Elves (Middle-earth)|Elves]]. During the [[First Age]], they were among the most feared of [[Morgoth]]'s forces. When his fortress of [[Utumno]] was destroyed by the [[Valar]], many were destroyed, but some fled and lurked in the pits of [[Angband]] or escaped across the Blue mountains to eastern [[Middle-earth]]. In the third age the Dwarves of [[Moria (Middle-earth)|Khazad-dûm]] awakened a Balrog while mining for [[Mithril]] and were cast out.

The Balrogs were first encountered by the Elves during the [[Dagor-nuin-Giliath]] in the First Age. After the great victory of the [[Ñoldor]] over Morgoth's [[Orc (Middle-earth)|Orc]]s, [[Fëanor]] pressed on towards [[Angband]], but the Balrogs came against him. He was mortally wounded by [[Gothmog]], Lord of Balrogs (the only Balrog known by his name). Though his sons fought off the demons of fire, Fëanor died of his wounds soon after, and his spirit departed for the [[Mandos|Halls of Mandos]].

Balrogs have been very elusive since the [[First Age]]; if Sauron had any in his service during the [[Second Age]] or the [[War of the Ring]], they were never revealed. Tolkien described only one Balrog after the War of Wrath: [[Durin's Bane]]. It is believed to have been the last Balrog in [[Middle-earth]] and is certainly the best-documented.

==Do Balrogs have wings?==

[[Image: balrog.png|thumb|300px|The Balrog from [[Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson's]] [[Fellowship of the Ring]]]]

Discussion has occurred as to whether the Balrogs had [[wing]]s. Nothing has been decided conclusively, although the Balrog in the [[Peter Jackson]] film version of ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring (book)|The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', released in [[2001]], was clearly winged, albeit with 'wings of shadow', and certainly could not fly. That, however, proves nothing about the Balrogs Tolkien wrote about.

The debate mainly comes from ''The [[Bridge]] of [[Moria (Middle-earth)|Khazad-dûm]]'', a chapter in ''The Fellowship of the Ring''. There are two references in this chapter.

"His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings." ''The Lord of the Rings'' II 5 "The Bridge of Khazad-dûm"

There is nothing special in this on its own. The Balrog carried with itself a shadow that assumed a winglike form. The next reference is what forms the debate.

"...suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall..." ''The Lord of the Rings'' II 5 "The Bridge of Khazad-dûm"

Readers usually make their own interpretations about this and feel it to be quite obvious. However, this can be seen in two possible ways. For some, the Balrog has a shadow that assumes a winglike form. Later, this shadow is spread from wall to wall. Others, however, think that the Balrog has actual wings that are spread from wall to wall. There is no real conclusion to the debate and it will probably continue as long as Tolkien has readers.

===Arguments ''for'' Balrog wings===
The most common argument for those supporting Balrog wings is the second reference in ''The Bridge of Khazad-dûm''. The people supporting Balrog wings believe the sentence to mean that the Balrog had literal wings spreading from wall to wall. There are also other references that may be taken as evidence of Balrog wings. These usually involve discussions about references to speed of travel:

"Swiftly they arose, and they passed with winged speed over Hithlum, and they came to Lammoth as a tempest of fire." ''The History of Middle-earth Volume X (Morgoth's Ring), The Later Quenta Silmarillion: Of the Rape of the Silmarils''

Here, the Balrogs are said to move "with winged speed". This is usually taken as a metaphor for moving very quickly, but there are people who believe this is a strong argument for Balrog wings.

===Arguments ''against'' Balrog wings===

The first reference to the Balrog is one of the main arguments against wings, as it explicitly refers to "wings of shadow" instead of physical wings. Another common argument is that Balrogs are never exactly described as flying, unless one assumes "winged speed" means flying. There are also numerous situations where a Balrog could have either saved or helped itself by flying but didn't do so.

"Many are the songs that have been sung of the duel of [[Glorfindel]] with the Balrog upon a pinnacle of rock in that high place; and both fell to ruin in the abyss." Quenta Silmarillion 23 "Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin"

"I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place, and broke the mountain-side where he smote it in his ruin." ''The Lord of the Rings'' III 5 "The White Rider"

In both the duel with Glorfindel and with Gandalf, the Balrog fell from a great height and did not use its wings. Obviously, it is possible that the wings could not be used for flying. This could be due to its size or its current physical condition (injury or exhaustion as a result of combat). However, even the size of Balrogs are a matter of dispute. Tolkien gives a few statements of the Balrog's size.

"[the Balrog] strode to the fissure, no more than man-high yet terror seemed to go before it." ''The History of Middle-earth Volume VII (The Treason of Isengard), X The Mines of Moria II: The Bridge''

This does not appear in the published version of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', so it may or may not be taken as a proof. Also, when the Balrog engages the Fellowship, it passes through an entrance.

The entrance is sized so that "...orcs one after another leaped into the chamber." ''The Lord of the Rings'' II 5 "The Bridge of Khazad-dûm" and "...clustered in the doorway." ''The Lord of the Rings'' II 5 "The Bridge of Khazad-dûm". Though these statements are open to interpretation, it is conjectured that Balrogs cannot be very large (clearly not as large as portrayed in [[Peter Jackson]]'s movie) to fit through such an entrance. The Balrog's size matters both because a large size would make it unlikely that its wings were functional, and also because during the confrontation with Gandalf, its wings were said to span the width of the chasm. Physical wings on such a small creature could not possibly do this, thus the belief that they are metaphorical wings of shadow.

Some think the strongest objection is the simplest: that taking references like the second statement seriously mean that all lines must be taken literally. For example, shortly before the Balrog's appearance, "Gandalf came flying down the steps and fell to the ground in the midst of the Company." Few would believe that Gandalf literally flew.

==Miscellaneous==

In one of Tolkien's early Middle-earth writings, ''[[Lay of the Children of Húrin]]'', "'''[[Lungothrin]]''', Lord of Balrogs" is mentioned. It is not, however, certain if it was another name for '''Gothmog''', or it simply meant "a Balrog lord". According to [[Christopher Tolkien]], the latter is more probable, as the name Gothmog was mentioned in the earliest Middle-earth writings, as well as the final version of Tolkien's mythology.

The Balrogs were originally envisioned as being immense in number:

"The early conception of Balrogs makes them less terrible, and certainly more destructible, than they afterwards became: they existed in 'hundreds' (p. 170), and were slain by [[Tuor]] and the [[Gondolin|Gondothlim]] in large numbers: "thus five fell before Tuor's great axe [[Dramborleg]], three before [[Ecthelion]]'s sword, and two [[score]] were slain by the warrior's of the king's house."
[[The Book of Lost Tales]] 2, commentary by Christopher Tolkien on ''The Fall of Gondolin''.

"There came wolves and serpents and there came Balrogs one thousand, and there came Glomund the Father of Dragons." [[The Lost Road]], ''Quenta Silmarillion'' chapter 16, §15.

As the legendarium became more formidable and internally consistent, and the Balrogs more terrible, this number was much reduced. In the end Tolkien stated that there were probably "at most" seven Balrogs:

"In the margin my father wrote: 'There should not be supposed more than say 3 or at most 7 ever existed.'" [[Morgoth's Ring]], Section 2 (AAm*): note 50 (just before section 3).

It should however be noted that these texts postdate the published ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', but predate the materials from which the published ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' was drawn. The exact number of Balrogs is therefore very uncertain, but Tolkien's note above seems to have been his final word. However, the number of 3 would require the rewriting of much of the Silmarillion, and even the number of 7 causes conflicts. At least two Balrogs were killed at Gondolin, part of a group of more. All others save one were destroyed during the [[War of Wrath]], and yet there were still enough there to allow [[Durin VI|Durin]]'s [[Bane]] to flee from the [[battle]] unnoticed. While "thousands" clearly is not according to author intent a more probable number, taking into account the writings, is that there were at least a dozen.

==F.A.Q.==
===Are there any Balrogs left in Middle-earth?===
Yes, there is still a possibility that [[Balrogs]] are still lurking out there. After the [[Last Battle of the First Age]] some Balrogs escaped the [[Valar]]'s grasps and hid deep underground. [[The Silmarillion]] tells us that,
:"The Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessible at the roots of the earth..."

== External links ==
* [http://tolkien.slimy.com/essays/TAB.html The Truth About Balrogs] essay series by Conrad Dunkerson.

[[Category:Maiar]]

User talk:Hyarion

2005-09-15T03:14:43Z

66.75.206.249: /* Bokkie Moans */

Hello, Hyarion!

I hope this is the right place to send messages - if not, please erase this.

Well, I was suprised to see that I was the second person to register in here, but that's even better: there's plenty of room to fill in.

I found these pages - as you might guess - via the Finnish Kontu forum, where the administrator Merri had posted a message informing about possibilities for co-operation. So I hope there will be more Finns to register in. I'll send my contributions when I have time to do that - quite irregularly, I'm afraid, but let's hope the best.

yours, Tik

By the way, how does one start writing a new article to which there exists no previous
link? I couldn't figure that out, being quite unaccustomed to Wiki. The only way I could start writing a new article was to edit a previous one and add there a new internal link and continue editing that one.

== Good Question ==

I have a feeling that will be a common one (because I had to figure that one out myself) so I'll post that on the help page. All you have to do is type in your address bar, something like http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Title of Page (it will even insert the underscores for you) and you will be directed to a page that does not exist and you can edit it that way.

Also, something I broke my own rule on, its a good idea to type a 'signature' when adding a comment to a discussion, otherwise no one knows who wrote it. I wish mediawiki would do it automatically, but until I fix that, a good standard to use is like mine below, just type "&mdash ;" but take the space out between the h and the semicolon...I can't figure out how to show those literally. You can also use -- it's just a matter of preference. And then type 4 ~ in a row. The first one prints out your name, second the time, 3rd the date, and 4th the timezone I believe.

EDIT: Hm...looks like your one step ahead of me, on your pages, you have exactly that.

EDIT: On second thought I'm going to move this to User:Hyarion because I'll probably keep this page to say what the English translation of Hyarion is.

— [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:41, 12 Jun 2005 (EDT)

== Answer To Your Question ==

A lot of my stuff is at my LJ, [http://www.livejournal.com/users/brighty11/ ~~Black Sun~~], and some is at Parma, OF and Elfsheen, but a lot is just on my hard disk. :)

— [[User:BrightSideoftheDark|Brighty]] 6:22, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

== Bokkie Moans ==

Hey

Can you try and make a [[Special:Sandbox]] for us users to try stuff out in?
makes editing family lines and such easier...

I've spotted a difference of opinion... 8-)
I've been trying to remove all the '''Hobbits Category''' entries from the different hobbits, but I see you add them still... It did make it easier for me to check who had been edited...
I guess we want them back?

* Ah, hehe. That is something I was debating. I wonder if it is possible to have a 'Hobbits' cateogry and in it, list the hobbit family names, but have it also contain a list of all the hobbits since those are sub-categories. I guess when it comes down to it I just want a page that lists all the Hobbits, whatever way works I'm fine with. Sorry I totally forgot you were removing those, heh, I'll look into it to see what way will work. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:44, 9 Sep 2005 (EDT)
::I'll leave the Hobbit category be then. I guess it would be just as useful to have all the hobbits in one big list, as it was. Just add a category for the specific family too, like you did 8-)
I've got my doubts about double pages like [[Sam Gamgee]] and [[Samwise Gamgee]].
It basically is one and the same person, only a nickname or shortform. I would rather see 1 article with a list of "aliases"... --[[User:Bokkie|Bokkie]] 17:42, 14 Sep 2005 (EDT)
:I understand where you're coming from and I'll keep thinking about it, but for the time being I still say that it would be more beneficial to have the names on seperate pages, because each name has a specific meaning. For example [[Aragorn Elessar]] and [[Strider]] and such, you can go into great detail about the different names and people who called him that, places he used it, and the [[Elvish]]translations along with the old english meanings, etc. This would tend to drag down the [[Aragorn Elessar]] page to list all the names/information on it. For things like [[Sam Gamgee]] there is not going to be as much information to talk about it, but just to keep the same system I think it's best to keep it. In the future we can list when he is referred to as 'Sam' and by whom. Just my opinion though. --[[User:66.75.206.249|66.75.206.249]] 23:14, 14 Sep 2005 (EDT)

== Sandbox ==

Good idea, I'll add that to the to-do list while I upgrade the new wiki software, which should greatly improve the left menu, I'm going to be able to add things like links to the letters A-Z or links to races or to whatever we want and in different tables, if you have any suggestions let me know. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:39, 9 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Simon Tolkien

2005-08-05T02:25:18Z

66.75.206.249:

'''Simon Tolkien''' is the grandson of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]].

He studied modern history at [[University of Oxford|Oxford]] and is a barrister in [[London]], where he lives with his wife and their two children. His first novel, ''The Stepmother'' (published in the United States as ''Final Witness''), was published in 2003.

[[Category:Tolkien Family]]

Portal:Music

2005-06-06T02:07:52Z

66.75.206.249:

[[Official Soundtracks]] <br>

[[Blind Guardian]]