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Talk:Thingol

2014-01-02T00:54:35Z

70.48.192.144: /* Born vs awoke */

Where does it state that 3000 years past between the awakening and the summoning? And I thought Thingol was found again after being in a trance for 200 years, not 1000. [[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 16:33, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

Perhaps we should change the image. The sketch is nice but the Tengwar are really crappy and shouldn't be featured on a Tolkien wiki. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 04:43, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

:I agree on not using this as the infobox pic. The whole article is in dire need of more images. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:48, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

::Had some more time to look at the tengwar - I've seen Sotomayor's bumbling before. It's usually Spanish qwerty-Tengwar. The problem is, we haven't got that many images. Anyone know a good one? -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:08, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
::I really like [http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/tom_loback.htm these] [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:24, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

:::[[Tom Loback]]'s are, as far as I know, not in the public domain. We can't use them. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:35, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
::::Hm I don't know all about legal stuff and licenses, but Alan Lee's images are in the PD? If not, why are they used here? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:55, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
:::::Some special agreement or something. Ask Hyarion when he gets back. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:59, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

== Move ==

To just "Thingol". [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Elu Thingol|Most articles link to just "Thingol" anyway]], whilst the majority of the article refers to simply "Thingol" (as do publications like ''The Silmarillion''). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:26, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:45, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Infobox picture showing nonsense tengwar ==

Can we at last do something about the picture in the infobox, which is still there despite the discussion above? I totally agree with Sage that a serious Tolkien wiki should not use pictures displaying ''‘Mode of Boloneyland’'', that is nonsense [[Tengwar#Non-Unicode|tengwar]] as used by incompentent persons who have no understanding of the script at all and think it just codes for the Latin alfabet. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 03:58, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

:Image replaced. --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:44, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

== Born vs awoke ==

A note in the article says "In the published The Silmarillion, Elu Thingol awoke at Cuiviénen, instead of being born there". What is the exact quote supporting that Thingol belonged to the first generation of the "unborn" Elves? It could as well be that the Elves of Cuivienen were of more than one generation. Is there a reference that definitely rules out that Thingol was a second-generation Elf? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 09:10, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

:Since there is no comment, I am altering the text to make it less fanon and more agnostic. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:18, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

::Fair enough.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:28, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

:::If one reads the text of Awakening of the Elves carefully, one can see that it is always in pairs that the elves are found. If Thingol were part of the first generation then the other part of that pair would either have been 'jilted' (didn't happen to my knowledge amoung the first Elves or captured by Morgoth's servants. That aside, it would seem that an equally simple answer is that he was born at Cuivienen along with his brothers. Hence, there was no hesitation when he wed Melian. [[User:Earandir|Earandir]] 17:40, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

None of the firstborn can have siblings. Elwe/Thingol has a brother, Olwe, ergo he had parents.

:One can argue that the firstborn referred as their "siblings" the Elves of the same batch they awoke with. For example, when Enel awoke the first batch of the Nelyar, all these could be considered "siblings", and both Elwe and Olwe (and Elmo) might had been among them. Of course this would mean that Elwe would have had 10 or more siblings, making Olwe's kinship to him rather insignificant. But we could consider the Valar, some of which were siblings in Eru's mind. This interpretation of "Elwe's brother" might support the firstborn argument, although it's tentative and very speculative. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:45, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

:: It is speculative, but also unfortunately flawed. If they counted their co-wakers as siblings, why is ONLY Olwe counted as a brother rather than several others?

Talk:Ingwë

2014-01-01T05:59:00Z

70.48.192.144:

Intersting case: there's a consensus here on TG (and also on Wikipedia), to write articles about imaginary concepts from literature in past tense. The article says:

<nowiki>"[Ingwë] lives in [[Tirion]], in the tower called ''[[Mindon Eldaliéva]]''."</nowiki>

Should this sentence be changed to past tense? I would instinctively say yes, but one could argue that Ingwe is supposed to still live in Tirion. On the other hand, we would then have to discuss the difficult issues of the relation between Arda and our World (the fifth and sixth ages, and so forth), and perhaps that wouldn't be fruitful. Any thoughts?

I'll change the sentence to past tense. Let me now if you differ.

--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:07, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

:Past tense. But the whole article is a mess anyway so this problem might be avoided with a rewrite. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:23, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

::I'm doing some small tweaks, so hold on a little.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:29, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

If Indis is Ingwe's neice, then Ingwe had a sibling. If he had a sibling, he had parents. If he had parents, he's categorically not firstborn.

Talk:Thingol

2014-01-01T05:55:54Z

70.48.192.144: /* Born vs awoke */