Talk:Giants

2014-09-10T03:21:27Z

73.2.2.49: Giants smashing rocks among the Trees without harming the Trees

The whole Giant-Ent thing is a little theory of mine. I realise the real reason Giants are so mysterious is probably because Tolkien never got round to retrofitting that part of The Hobbit's bestiary to the legendarium proper but hey, I think it's an interesting thought. --[[User:Aule the Smith|Aule the Smith]] 03:15, 10 February 2008 (EST)

: The entire article need a bit of clean-up. Also, check out the origin-myth of [[Tarlang's Neck]]: it's mentioned in [[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]], and features a heathen belief in giants making the [[White Mountains]]. There's also an elvish root for "giant", NOROTH, giving [[Quenya]] ''norsa'' and [[Sindarin]] ''noroth''. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:56, 10 February 2008 (EST)

==Smashing rocks among the Trees==
I just corrected the article, which formerly said that the giants threw rocks which smashed the Trees, where The Hobbit says they smashed AMONG the Trees. I wanted to comment because it may seem natural that rocks smashed among the Trees would smash Trees- but near-Treeline Forests have large areas of meadows which have no Trees. This seems important because of speculations that the Giants may be nature spirits similar in nature to the Ents or to Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, and I feel that nature spirits would not smash Trees.
Anyway, I wanted to explain how it is believable that they could smash rocks among the Trees without harming the Trees, since most people have not been to a near-Treeline forest.

==Image==
The image currently used for this page (the concept art from the White Council) is meant to display a troll, perhaps we should change it? I would perhaps instead suggest a picture by Angus McBride released as Thunder's Companion in the MECCG. If you're curious about the pic, make a search at [http://www.tradecardsonline.com/im/searchCards]. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

:The current pic doesn't look like a troll to me, but if there are better pics I'd definitely like to have it on the page. As soon as the image bug is solved. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
==Removal of sentence==
I removed this introductory sentence: <nowiki>"They lived in the [[Misty Mountains]], and maybe the [[Ettenmoors]]."</nowiki>, since the first part is repeated soon after and since the second seems to be pure speculation. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:33, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

==Stone-giants in the Hobbit==

But what other conclusion is there? in the book it states that the company encounter stone-giants in a storm tossing rocks as part of a game. The scene in the video shows the company in a mountainous area, there is a storm and there is a mysterious figure holding a huge rock. Im ready to upload an image of it as soon as I get permission to. [[User:Gaetano|Gaetano]] 19:42, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

:We hold off on adding content based on vlogs and trailers such as this. They rarely show a complete picture, and are bound to be over-interpreted. We'll get to it when the movie comes out. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:01, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Giants

2014-09-10T02:54:17Z

73.2.2.49: according to The Hobbit the Giants' rocks don't smash Trees- they smash AMONG the Trees. This seems important if we speculate that they may be nature spirits like the Ents or like Tom Bombadil and Goldberry.

[[File:Angus McBride - Giants.jpg|frame|right|[[Angus McBride]] - ''Giants'']]
'''Giants''' were one of the mysterious [[races]] of [[Middle-earth]], mentioned only fleetingly.

==History==
Giants are beings shrouded in mystery. [[Gandalf|Gandalf the Grey]] was known for telling stories about [[dragons]] and [[Orcs|goblins]] and giants<ref>{{H|Party}}</ref> and [[Bilbo Baggins|Bilbo]] had heard of giants in tales,<ref>{{H|Riddles}}</ref> but none of these tales survive and the origin and history of the giants is obscure. Presumably, not all giants were evil, as Gandalf seems to have convinced a more or less decent giant to block the entrance to [[Goblin-town]] at the top of the [[High Pass]] in the [[Misty Mountains]].<ref>{{H|6}}</ref><ref name="Giants">{{HH|IV}}, "(iii): The Giants", pp. 143-5</ref>

However, what is known is that ''stone-giants'' lived in the Misty Mountains during the late [[Third Age]]. Upon coming, they drove out the majority of the [[bears]] that lived there.<ref>{{H|Queer}}</ref> They found a sport in throwing rocks at each other, and then into the depths below them to hear them shatter among the trees.<ref>{{H|Hill}}</ref>

A local legend among the [[Pre-Númenóreans|indigenous people]] of [[Gondor]] told of giants making the [[White Mountains]], to keep [[Men]] out of their lands by the [[Belegaer|Sea]]. One of them, [[Tarlang]], tripped, and broke his neck. The other giants did not clean up his body, which became incorporated in the land instead. The giant's neck became [[Tarlang's Neck]], his head [[Dol Tarlang]], and the stones he was carrying [[Cûl Veleg]] and [[Cûl Bîn]].<ref>{{HM|N}}, pp. 536-7</ref>

==Fandom==
Giants are notable for being definitely mentioned in ''[[The Hobbit]]'' as actual creatures of the mythological setting, yet appearing nowhere else among the creatures and races of [[Arda]], nor participating in any of the wars. The [[Valaquenta]] doesn't mention them, nor do they appear in the wars of the ''[[Quenta Silmarillion]]'', nor [[Sauron]] uses them in the [[War of the Ring]].

This led some [[Tolkienists]] to assume that giants are maybe a fleeting idea of Tolkien that perhaps should not be considered [[canon]]ical. [[Robert Foster]] comments that the ''stone-giants'' "may be no more serious than [[Golfimbul]]".<ref>{{HM|Guide}}, p. 366</ref>

Other theories attempt to include the giants among the known races of Arda. For example they might be a large race of [[Men]] (like [[Hobbits]] are a small race of Men), or [[Trolls]], or simply "nature [[spirits]]" more or less like [[Tom Bombadil]].<ref>{{webcite|author=Steuard Jensen|website=Tolkien meta-FAQ|articlename=What were the giants?|articleurl=http://tolkien.slimy.com/faq/Creatures.html#Giants}}</ref>

==Other versions of the legendarium==
===Before ''The Hobbit''===
Giants originally had a larger part in the [[legendarium]]. In one early manuscript, the giants are counted among the [[úvanimo|Úvanimor]], servants of [[Morgoth|Melko]].<ref>{{LT1|X}}</ref> In another manuscript, the giants are counted among the [[Earthlings]], and are divided between the "wood-giants" ([[Qenya]] ''ulbandi'') and "mountainous-giants" (Qenya ''taulir'').<ref>{{PE|14}}, p. 9</ref> And in other early writings, two giants are named: [[Nan (giant)|Nan]] and [[Gilim]].<ref>{{LB|C5}} (verse 1497)</ref><ref>{{LT2|I}}</ref> ''Gilim'' is [[Gnomish]] for "winter", and ''Nan'' was said to be like an [[Elms|Elm]]-tree.

It is quite possible that their appearance in ''[[The Hobbit]]'' is a relic from this early phase of the legendarium. [[John D. Rateliff]] has argued that they might have become "free agents"; not wicked, but simply not aware of their surroundings.<ref name="Giants"/>

===Giants and Ents===
Giants were the wicked precursors of [[Ents]]. The elm-like features of the Giant Nan, and that in early versions of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' it was the Giant [[Treebeard]] who held [[Gandalf]] captive, not [[Saruman]],<ref>{{RS|3XXI}}</ref> makes the connection between Giants and Ents within [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s imagination clear.<ref name="Giants"/> "Ent" comes from an [[Old English]] word for "giant",<ref>{{RS|1XId}}</ref> seen at various points in ''[[Beowulf (poem)|Beowulf]]'', for example line 2717, ''enta geweorc'', "the work of giants".<ref>Howell D. Chickering, Jr., "Beowulf: A Dual Language Edition", pp. 212-3</ref>

==Inspiration==
In the ''[[The Return of the King|Return of the King]]'' it is noted that [[Minas Tirith]] "''seemed to have been not builded but carven by giants out of the bones of the earth''".<ref>{{RK|V1}}</ref> [[Wayne G. Hammond|Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull|Scull]] have suggested that this notion derives from [[Old English]] mythology, in which giants were often portrayed as builders of ancient structures.<ref>{{HM|RC}}, p. 514</ref>

==Other fiction==
A [[The Giant|giant]] troubles [[Farmer Giles]]' land, who chases him off with his blunderbuss.<ref>[[J.R.R. Tolkien]], ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''</ref>

==Etymology==
An early [[Sundocarmë|root]] for "giant" is given as [[NOROTH]]. This yields [[Quenya]] ''[[norsa]]'',<ref name="NOROTH">{{LR|Etymologies}} (cf. [[Sundocarmë|Root]] ''[[NOROTH]]'')</ref> and ''Noroth'' (likely supposed to be a [[Noldorin]] word<ref>{{webcite|author=Roman Rausch|articleurl=http://sindanorie.lima-city.de/RS&TI&WR.htm|articlename=''Essekenta Endamarwa'' - Names from ''The Return of the Shadow'', ''The Treason of Isengard'' and ''The War of the Ring''|dated=23 December 2006|website=Sindanórie|accessed=8 October 2011}}</ref>). A discarded Quenya word was ''hanako'', from a root KHAN-AK.<ref>{{VT|45a}}, p. 21</ref>

==Portrayal in adaptations==
{{Gallery
|title=Giants in adaptations
|width=200
|height=200
|lines=3
|File:Nicholas Jainschigg - Thunder's Companion.jpg|''Thunder's Companion'' by Nicholas Jainschigg for [[Middle-earth Collectible Card Game|''MECCG'']]

|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Battle for Middle-earth II - Mountain Giant.jpg|Mountain giant in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]''

|File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Giant.jpg|A giant in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''

|File:The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey - Stone Giants.jpg|A ''stone giant'' in ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]''
|File:The Lord of the Rings - War in the North - Bargrisar.png|Bargrisar in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]''
}}
===Films===
'''2012: ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]'':'''
:''Stone-giants'' are seen throwing rocks and crashing into each other as [[Thorin and Company]] travel over the [[Misty Mountains]]. In the film, they are interpreted as literally being colossal stone entities.

===Games===
'''1982: ''[[Middle-earth Role Playing]]'':'''
:Several divisions and races of giants are described and given statistics, such as Stone Giants<ref>{{ICE|8070}}</ref>, Ice Giants<ref>{{ICE|2025}}</ref>, Giants of the Southern Misty Mountains<ref>{{ICE|3600}}</ref>, and Red Giants<ref>{{ICE|2012}}</ref>.

'''1995: ''[[Middle-earth Collectible Card Game]]'':'''
:Giants, called ''Thunder's Companions'', are one of the Hazard Creatures.

'''2003: [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]:'''
:Stone-giants are golem-like creatures that appear in the fourth level, hurling rocks at Bilbo as he tries to travel along a mountain path. They are completely made of stone, and their stones are dangerous.<ref>[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]], "Over Hill and Under Hill"</ref>

'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''
:"Mountain Giants" are large and powerful beings in the Goblin faction, with brown scaly skin. They can hurl stones at great distance, and serve as the faction's artillery units.

'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''
:Several tribes of giants appear in the game, including ''Stone-giants'', Ogres (also called Jorthkyn or Earth-kin), and Ice-giants. While some are enemy creatures, others remain neutral and can be befriended by the player.

'''2011: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]'':'''
:A renegade ''Stone-Giant'' named Bargrisar appears in the game, serving as a boss character. He is the leader of a small army of Orcs and Trolls. Similar to the portrayal in ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]'', he is a being composed entirely of stone.

===Other===
'''1989: [[The Hobbit (comic book)|''The Hobbit'' (comic book)]]:'''
:Giants are displayed as bearded gigantic men with regular leather attire.

==See also==
*[[:Category:Images of Giants|Images of Giants]]
*[[Ents]]
*[[Trolls]]

==External links==

*[http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2013/03/26/are-the-stone-giants-supposed-to-be-demons-like-the-balrog/ Are the Stone Giants Supposed to Be Demons like the Balrog?] by [[Michael Martinez]]

{{references}}
{{Legend}}
[[Category:Giants| ]]
[[de:Riesen]]

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Talk:Giants

Giants