Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

User:AragornElessar

2016-05-04T22:47:11Z

2016-04-14T16:02:15Z

AragornElessar: /* Hello */

{{Template:Welcome|realName=Kate Natale|name=AragornElessar}}

-- [[User:Mith|'''Mith''']] ([[User talk:Mith|'''Talk''']]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|Edits]]) 04:12, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

== Hello ==

Hello, I am AragornElessar and I would like to welcome you to my talk page. [[User:AragornElessar|AragornElessar]] 20:44, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

:Hello! Please make sure to sign your posts at talk pages. You do this by entering the code <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> Thanks for being active at Tolkien Gateway, and just let me know if you have any questions! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:03, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
::Ok, thanks. [[User:AragornElessar|AragornElessar]] 16:02, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

User:AragornElessar

2016-04-13T18:40:01Z

AragornElessar:

{{user infobox
| name=AragornElessar
| age=12
| height=5ft
| hair=blonde
| eyes=blue
| userboxes= {{user lore-2}}
{{user en-N}}
{{user elves}}
{{user good}}
{{user irc}}
{{user elves noldor}}
{{user gondor}}
}}

<poem style="font-style:italic; margin-left:20px;">
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost. The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring. Renewed shall be blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.
</poem>

=About Me=
I am AragornElessar and I love Lord Of The Rings and Hobbit. I am learning to speak all Elvish dialects.
My favorite race is the [[Elves]], for the simple reason that they have a well developed culture. I have not learned a ton about [[Tolkien]] and his works, but I hope to learn much more. I already love LOTR and The Hobbit, and hope to learn more about them as well.

=Stuff I will Research=
*The Nazgûl
*King Elessar
*House Telcontar
*Elvish History

=Other Information=
I also enjoy the Inheritance series, which has [[elves]], [[dwarves]], [[men]] and lots of other creatures. I think that this series was inspired by Tolkien's work. I have learned to speak the [[elvish]] from that series fluently and think that it is a good starting point if I want to learn to speak Tolkien's elvish.

User:AragornElessar

2016-04-13T18:37:23Z

AragornElessar:

{{user infobox
| name=AragornElessar
| age=12
| height=5ft
| hair=blonde
| eyes=blue
| userboxes= {{user lore-2}}
{{user en-N}}
{{user elves}}
{{user good}}
{{user irc}}
{{user elves noldor}}
{{user gondor}}
}}

All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost. The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring. Renewed shall be blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.

=About Me=
I am AragornElessar and I love Lord Of The Rings and Hobbit. I am learning to speak all Elvish dialects.
My favorite race is the [[Elves]], for the simple reason that they have a well developed culture. I have not learned a ton about [[Tolkien]] and his works, but I hope to learn much more. I already love LOTR and The Hobbit, and hope to learn more about them as well.

=Stuff I will Research=
*The Nazgûl
*King Elessar
*House Telcontar
*Elves

=Other Information=
I also enjoy the Inheritance series, which has [[elves]], [[dwarves]], [[men]] and lots of other creatures. I think that this series was inspired by Tolkien's work. I have learned to speak the [[elvish]] from that series fluently and think that it is a good starting point if I want to learn to speak Tolkien's elvish.

Talk:Thranduil

2016-04-13T15:39:07Z

AragornElessar: /* Elvish */

I am divided about articles such as these. It is very well written and includes a lot of information, however much of it is also (well-written) peripheral information, not directly related to Thranduil. Such information is the Last Alliance, the Necromancer, the Quest of Erebor, how Smaug died, the Hunt of Gollum. All in all, this article is a general history of the Elves of Mirkwood. Yes, Thranduil fought with the Last Alliance but his biography is not a synopsis of the War. Yes, Thranduil did have two encounters with Thorin and Co., but his biography is not a synopsis of their Quest. Yes, Thranduil was alive and ruled the Elves of Mirkwood during all of their recorded history, and perhaps he allowed or participated in the hunt for Gollum, but his life is not tied to the history of his realm.

My normal reaction as a reader/editor would be to trim much of those details, which can be repeated elsewhere (eg. [[Elves of Mirkwood]] or even [[Woodland Realm]]), but I am sure that another member of our fellowship considered a good thing to put his talent and effort in compiling a complete narrative of the events surrounding Thranduil. From his point of view, my trimming would be butchering this well-writen article.

Thranduil is just one example of such articles with much peripheral information. What is your opinion? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:39, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

:If a piece of information loses its peripheral status when moved to another, specific article, then I'd say it's a good move.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:49, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

:+1. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 13:16, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

::Morgan, you mean that the movements toward the Thranduil article were good moves? Or you suggest the opposite?
::Ederchil, I thought your +1 falls under Morgan's comment, but the ident shows it falls under mine; so, you agree that Thranduil article has too much indirect information and has to be trimmed? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 11:36, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

::You. Keep it as concise and to the point as possible. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:39, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

:::Sage: yes, I agree that the Thranduil article should be trimmed.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:40, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

::::In my newness to editing here, I ended up adding more information, including information about the War of the Last Alliance, which may have only added to the bloat. My view was that of an Elf fan who reads ''The Hobbit'' and finds it woefully lacking on Thranduil's backstory, heck, it doesn't even have his name in it. Then there's people who only saw the films, and they know next to nothing aside from Peter Jackson's version of the character. When it's a very popular character, there's a desire to know as much about him as there is to know. For example, the War of the Ring information is terribly interesting. However, if brevity is the order of the day, I know I'm really bad at that. I don't do laconic well. Should I just remove what I added today? I fear I made it worse, not better. [[User:Elf-esteem|Elf-esteem]] 23:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

::::Okay, I moved some of the stuff I wrote and some of the war and population stuff to other pages where it made more sense. But, like I wrote last week, Thranduil has a big fandom, hungry for info, and this is a great resource. There is a lot of fanon about him, and this clears up most of it in one spot. Whomever it was that started this article did a good job. I think it's awesome to have pretty much everything he was involved in, with his part in it, clarified on one page. I think it's incorrect to say that his life is not tied to the history of his realm; I think it is inseparable. He is the last Elvenking in Middle-earth. Elves are, literally, tied to their lands and the land remembers them. That's how they are characterized. I can find multiple references that support that notion. But, then again, I fully acknowledge that I am wholly bias for the Elves. :P [[User:Elf-esteem|Elf-esteem]] 08:17, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

== When Thranduil was born? ==

I cound't find a canon source which says Thranduil was present in the First Age... [[User:Haran|Haran]] 20:43, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

:''Unfinished Tales'' states categorically that Oropher was from Doriath, but it is rather ambiguous about Thranduil. I was obviously similarly sceptical about this as it was me who added <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> to the statement. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:24, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

:If it is of any consequence, Foster's Guide mentions he was born sometime in FA although his sources aren't specific. The sources [edit: those I can recall right now] don't exclude the possibility that he was born in Lindon ''after'' the WoW. We can add "Possibly First Age or early Second Age" with a ref to the Guide, or some footnote. It's not orthodox but it works. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 16:21, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

::: I made a modification in the box and in the text, look there and please make any necessary corrections. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 17:34, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

== Thranduil sailed west? ==

The text says "he probably passed over the Sea to Valinor eventually". Is it probable indeed? Thranduil is descendant of elves from Beleriand who had the desire of living as avari... They are excellent candidates to not pass over the Sea. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 17:34, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

: I think it is possible that he sailed West eventually, like his son. But that part in the article seems unnecessary to me, as it is just a speculation. [[User:Amaranth|Amaranth]] 16:15, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

::+1. It is, of course, possible. However, there is no stated evidence for it and, therefore, is simply speculation on our part. Thranduil's history should end with "Thranduil's ultimate fate is unknown". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:08, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

:::+1 I agree just saying his fate is unknown is best. It's true. [[User:Elf-esteem|Elf-esteem]] 23:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

==The Resources bullet point list==
Are those necessary? It's sort of redundant to have a bullet point list of resources under the list of cited resources. [[User:Elf-esteem|Elf-esteem]] 23:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

:Those bullet points are from about ten years ago before we had the current technical abilities to insert proper inline references. They're mostly kept now in articles that currently lack inline references. They can be removed whenever you encounter them. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:37, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

== Elvish ==

I noticed that Thranduil is referred to as a Sinda, is that singular? The Hobbit says that Thranduil was of the Sindar race, does that make him a Sindar?

Talk:Thranduil

2016-04-13T15:38:31Z

AragornElessar: /* Elvish */

Talk:Thranduil

2016-04-13T15:37:37Z

AragornElessar: /* Elvish */ new section

I am divided about articles such as these. It is very well written and includes a lot of information, however much of it is also (well-written) peripheral information, not directly related to Thranduil. Such information is the Last Alliance, the Necromancer, the Quest of Erebor, how Smaug died, the Hunt of Gollum. All in all, this article is a general history of the Elves of Mirkwood. Yes, Thranduil fought with the Last Alliance but his biography is not a synopsis of the War. Yes, Thranduil did have two encounters with Thorin and Co., but his biography is not a synopsis of their Quest. Yes, Thranduil was alive and ruled the Elves of Mirkwood during all of their recorded history, and perhaps he allowed or participated in the hunt for Gollum, but his life is not tied to the history of his realm.

My normal reaction as a reader/editor would be to trim much of those details, which can be repeated elsewhere (eg. [[Elves of Mirkwood]] or even [[Woodland Realm]]), but I am sure that another member of our fellowship considered a good thing to put his talent and effort in compiling a complete narrative of the events surrounding Thranduil. From his point of view, my trimming would be butchering this well-writen article.

Thranduil is just one example of such articles with much peripheral information. What is your opinion? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:39, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

:If a piece of information loses its peripheral status when moved to another, specific article, then I'd say it's a good move.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:49, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

:+1. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 13:16, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

::Morgan, you mean that the movements toward the Thranduil article were good moves? Or you suggest the opposite?
::Ederchil, I thought your +1 falls under Morgan's comment, but the ident shows it falls under mine; so, you agree that Thranduil article has too much indirect information and has to be trimmed? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 11:36, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

::You. Keep it as concise and to the point as possible. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:39, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

:::Sage: yes, I agree that the Thranduil article should be trimmed.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:40, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

::::In my newness to editing here, I ended up adding more information, including information about the War of the Last Alliance, which may have only added to the bloat. My view was that of an Elf fan who reads ''The Hobbit'' and finds it woefully lacking on Thranduil's backstory, heck, it doesn't even have his name in it. Then there's people who only saw the films, and they know next to nothing aside from Peter Jackson's version of the character. When it's a very popular character, there's a desire to know as much about him as there is to know. For example, the War of the Ring information is terribly interesting. However, if brevity is the order of the day, I know I'm really bad at that. I don't do laconic well. Should I just remove what I added today? I fear I made it worse, not better. [[User:Elf-esteem|Elf-esteem]] 23:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

::::Okay, I moved some of the stuff I wrote and some of the war and population stuff to other pages where it made more sense. But, like I wrote last week, Thranduil has a big fandom, hungry for info, and this is a great resource. There is a lot of fanon about him, and this clears up most of it in one spot. Whomever it was that started this article did a good job. I think it's awesome to have pretty much everything he was involved in, with his part in it, clarified on one page. I think it's incorrect to say that his life is not tied to the history of his realm; I think it is inseparable. He is the last Elvenking in Middle-earth. Elves are, literally, tied to their lands and the land remembers them. That's how they are characterized. I can find multiple references that support that notion. But, then again, I fully acknowledge that I am wholly bias for the Elves. :P [[User:Elf-esteem|Elf-esteem]] 08:17, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

== When Thranduil was born? ==

I cound't find a canon source which says Thranduil was present in the First Age... [[User:Haran|Haran]] 20:43, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

:''Unfinished Tales'' states categorically that Oropher was from Doriath, but it is rather ambiguous about Thranduil. I was obviously similarly sceptical about this as it was me who added <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> to the statement. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:24, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

:If it is of any consequence, Foster's Guide mentions he was born sometime in FA although his sources aren't specific. The sources [edit: those I can recall right now] don't exclude the possibility that he was born in Lindon ''after'' the WoW. We can add "Possibly First Age or early Second Age" with a ref to the Guide, or some footnote. It's not orthodox but it works. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 16:21, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

::: I made a modification in the box and in the text, look there and please make any necessary corrections. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 17:34, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

== Thranduil sailed west? ==

The text says "he probably passed over the Sea to Valinor eventually". Is it probable indeed? Thranduil is descendant of elves from Beleriand who had the desire of living as avari... They are excellent candidates to not pass over the Sea. [[User:Haran|Haran]] 17:34, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

: I think it is possible that he sailed West eventually, like his son. But that part in the article seems unnecessary to me, as it is just a speculation. [[User:Amaranth|Amaranth]] 16:15, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

::+1. It is, of course, possible. However, there is no stated evidence for it and, therefore, is simply speculation on our part. Thranduil's history should end with "Thranduil's ultimate fate is unknown". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:08, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

:::+1 I agree just saying his fate is unknown is best. It's true. [[User:Elf-esteem|Elf-esteem]] 23:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

==The Resources bullet point list==
Are those necessary? It's sort of redundant to have a bullet point list of resources under the list of cited resources. [[User:Elf-esteem|Elf-esteem]] 23:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

:Those bullet points are from about ten years ago before we had the current technical abilities to insert proper inline references. They're mostly kept now in articles that currently lack inline references. They can be removed whenever you encounter them. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:37, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

== Elvish ==

I noticed that Thranduil is referred to as a Sinda, is that singular? The hobbit says that Thranduil was of the Sindar race, does that make him a Sindar?

User:AragornElessar

2016-04-13T15:14:29Z

AragornElessar:

{{user infobox
| name=AragornElessar
| age=12
| height=5ft
| hair=blonde
| eyes=blue
| userboxes= {{user lore-2}}
{{user en-N}}
{{user elves}}
{{user good}}
{{user irc}}
{{user elves noldor}}
{{user gondor}}
}}

All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost. The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring. Renewed shall be blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.

=About Me=
I am AragornElessar and I love Lord Of The Rings and Hobbit. I am learning to speak all Elvish dialects.
My favorite race is the [[Elves]], for the simple reason that they have a well deeloped culture. I have not learned a ton about [[Tolkien]] and his works, but I hope to learn much more. I already love LOTR and The Hobbit, and hope to learn more about them as well.

=Stuff I will Research=
*The Nazgûl
*King Elessar
*House Telcontar
*Elves

=Other Information=
I also enjoy the Inheritance series, which has [[elves]], [[dwarves]], [[men]] and lots of other creatures. I think that this series was inspired by Tolkien's work. I have learned to speak the [[elvish]] from that series fluently and think that it is a good starting point if I want to learn to speak Tolkien's elvish.

User:AragornElessar

2016-04-13T15:13:04Z

AragornElessar:

{{user infobox
| name=AragornElessar
| age=12
| height=5ft
| hair=blonde
| eyes=blue
| userboxes= {{user lore-2}}
{{user en-N}}
{{user elves}}
{{user good}}
{{user irc}}
{{user elves noldor}}
{{user gondor}}
}}

All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost. The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring. Renewed shall be blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.

=About Me=
I am AragornElessar and I love Lord Of The Rings and Hobbit. I am learning to speak all Elvish dialects.
My favorite race is the [[Elves]}, for the simple reason that they have a well deeloped culture. I have not learned a ton about [[Tolkien]] and his works, but I hope to learn much more. I already love LOTR and The Hobbit, and hope to learn more about them as well.

=Stuff I will Research=
*The Fellowship of the Ring
*The Nazgûl
*King Elessar
*Istari
*Elves

=Other Information=
I also enjoy the Inheritance series, which has [[elves]], [[dwarves]], [[men]] and lots of other creatures. I think that this series was inspired by Tolkien's work. I have learned to speak the [[elvish]] from that series fluently and think that it is a good starting point if I want to learn to speak Tolkien's elvish.

Talk:Morgul-knife

2016-04-13T15:08:45Z

AragornElessar: /* Question */

This page may need to be pluralized. --[[User:Ted C|Ted C]] 17:53, 20 October 2006 (EDT)

:Thanks Ted, I've gone ahead and moved it. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:59, 20 October 2006 (EDT)

== Question ==

Are Morgul blades essentially the same as Morgul arrows?

Also, are there other creatures besides the Nazgul that use these weapons? {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}

:Actually, the name *''Morgul blade'' is not once mentioned in the LoTR. Boromir (the older one) is told to have received a '''Morgul-wound''' in the war but we are not told what was the actual weapon. The blade that pierced Frodo's shoulder is (only once) called a '''Morgul-knife''', elsewhere it's only (accursed / long thin / deadly / cruel... ) knife which (naturally) has a blade, e.g. "the blade seemed to melt – – leaving only the hilt in Strider's hand" / "cruel knife with notched blade" / "fragment of the blade" / ... Then there is the Ringwraith at the door in Crickhollow: "In the dark without moon or stars a drawn blade gleamed". Who knows if this was a "Morgul-knife" or what? Perhaps only a sword, but I think the word blade here refers to the gleaming steel and not to the weapon as such. The word 'blade' used separately usually refers to a sword, I think.

:Thus I would like to call the weapon primarily "Morgul-knife" and perhaps even forget completely the name "Morgul blade". What it comes to Boromir, I suppose that '''Morgul-wound''' could be treated separately from the Morgul-knife as we don't know was it received from an arrow, a sword, a knife or what. But we know the consequences of the wound: they are quite different from that inflicted at the Weathertop, resembling more those seen during the Siege of Minas Tirith. --Tik 07:33, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

::Thanks for your observations, Tik. I've moved the page and removed the statements about "Morgul blades" and Boromir's wound. More work is needed on the page, though!--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 08:07, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

:::Ok, thanks for helping me understand this.

Talk:Morgul-knife

2016-04-13T15:08:20Z

AragornElessar: /* Question */

2015-05-13T15:06:18Z

AragornElessar: /* Usernames */ new section