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Talk:Secret Fire

2024-10-08T12:52:36Z

Dreisam: /* "Secret Fire" in Letter #212 */

=="Secret Fire" in Letter #212==

The article claims that "only Eru as Creator could command the Secret Fire". This claim is supported quoting 'Letter #212'. However, at least I seem to be not able to find a respective statement in that letter. [[User:Dreisam|Dreisam]] ([[User talk:Dreisam|talk]]) 21:09, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

:<blockquote>The One rebuked Aulë, saying that he had tried to usurp '''the Creator's power'''; but he could not '''give independent life to his makings'''. He had only one life, his own derived from the One, and could at most only distribute it. 'Behold' said the One: 'these creatures of thine have only thy will, and thy movement. Though you have devised a language for them, they can only report to thee thine own thought. This is a mockery of me.'</blockquote>
:Emphasis mine. Hope this helps! --[[Special:Contributions/Mord|Mord]] 00:53, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

::Thank you. So your quote supports the concept of the single and exclusive creative power of Eru Ilúvatar. The sentence doesn't say anything about the Secret Fire, though.--[[User:Dreisam|Dreisam]] ([[User talk:Dreisam|talk]]) 06:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::''He [Melkor] had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame; for desire grew hot within him to bring into Being things of his own, and it seemed to him that Ilúvatar took no thought for the Void, and he was impatient of its emptiness. '''Yet he found not the Fire, for it is with Ilúvatar'''.''
:::- ''The Silmarillion,'' 'Ainulindale', 5th paragraph; also found in ''Morgoth's Ring,'' p. 9 [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] ([[User talk:IvarTheBoneless|talk]]) 11:53, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::: Thank you, again. But those words from the ''Ainulindale D'' have not much to do with my concern to quote one of Tolkien's Letters to support an assumption about the Secret Fire, while that Letter actually does not mention the Secret Fire at all. Thus, I would still recommend removing that Letter-Quotation.--[[User:Dreisam|Dreisam]] ([[User talk:Dreisam|talk]]) 12:52, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Secret Fire

2024-10-08T06:12:25Z

Dreisam: /* "Secret Fire" in Letter #212 */

Talk:Dwarves

2024-10-06T21:20:50Z

Dreisam: /* "loved and revered" */ new section

There needs to be a history of the Dwarves on here.

Yes. I suggest you register and help create it. Dwarvish history is large enough it deserves its own article, yet small enough that it wouldn't be so long as, say, an Elvish history article, which would practically be an article on the [[First Age]], and a little on the Second and Third ages. We should probably write a chronological article and then place a timeline at the bottom. I don't have time at the moment, but I hope to get to it tomorrow. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 22:49, 18 August 2006 (EDT)

Lifespan 250 years is particularly closely adhered to in the timeline/genealogies (and sons born at father's age either 101 or 102!), but this is for the Longbeards who we are told to be the longest-lived of the Houses.--[[User:Osric|Osric]] 12:43, 14 November 2006 (EST)

:I would like to know the source of the fact that longbeards were particularly long-lived out of all other dwarves. i'm pretty sure its speculation. --[[User:Kulid123|Kulid123]] 22:45, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

== Uncited Quotations ==

Just wanted to mention that the later half of the Nature section (first 4 of the last 5 paragraphs in the section) contain verbatim quotations from "Appendix A, Durin's Folk" without being placed in quotations, block quotes or appropriately cited as being written by Tolkien (as opposed to being written by a wiki user). While I realize citing a source is generally sufficient with paraphrased, or short duplicated material, entire paragraphs seems another matter. I'm not sure if this is intentional or desirable, but thought I should raise the question at least. (Sorry, but I am not interested in editing any more wikis.) -- [[Special:Contributions/208.54.36.231|208.54.36.231]] 15:32, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

:Notice the "Sources" tag at the top. It needs work. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:23, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

So the article is fine the way its structured ? Just need to go in and find citations for unsorced works??
[[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 09:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

== Height ==
"They were 4.5 - 5 feet (1.35 - 1.52 m) tall" -- I would like to know the source for this information. --Tik 20:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
: Their physical characteristics are covered in ''[[The War of the Jewels]]'' which is why it is sourced at the end of that line.

:: There is no mention of size in the HOME 11 chapter "Concerning the Dwarves", only a mention about beards which is in this phrase. But in the Nature of Middle-earth part 2 chap 6 it is said : "Dwarves were about 4 ft. high at least." and speaking about the Bayne's painting : "Gimli is about the height that the hobbits should have been, but was probably somewhat taller; the hobbits should have been between 3 ft. 4 and 3 ft. 6." That let not think of a Gimli much taller than 4 feet. That's why I think that Dwarves are not so tall : maybe between 4 and 4,5 feet. [[User:Erendis|Erendis]] 10:46, 21 May 2022 (UTC)Erendis

== Wicked dwarves? ==

should i add a section describing wicked dwarves? let me know asap. --[[User:Kulid123|Kulid123]] 22:45, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

== "loved and revered" ==

The article says that the Dwarves "loved and revered the Vala Aulë." To support this claim, a certain passage of "The Silmarillion" is quoted (Quenta Silmarillion: Of the Sindar). That passage does not say that it were the Dwarves who "loved and revered Aulë", though. The respective sentence rather means that it were the Exiled Noldor who "loved and revered the Vala Aulë" -- and because of that these Elves were liked by the Dwarves. [[User:Dreisam|Dreisam]] ([[User talk:Dreisam|talk]]) 21:20, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Secret Fire

2024-10-06T21:10:47Z

Dreisam: /* "Secret Fire"! in Letter #212 */

Talk:Secret Fire

2024-10-06T21:09:58Z

Dreisam: /* "Secret Fire"! in Letter #212 */ new section

== "Secret Fire"! in Letter #212 ==

The article claims that "only Eru as Creator could command the Secret Fire". This claim is supported quoting [i]Letter #212[/i]. However, at least I seem to be not able to find a respective statement in that letter. [[User:Dreisam|Dreisam]] ([[User talk:Dreisam|talk]]) 21:09, 6 October 2024 (UTC)