Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

Talk:Calimmacil

2014-12-30T10:56:03Z

Earendilyon:

==Date of Birth==

As Calimmacil was the son of the younger brother of Narmacil II, who was born TA 1684, wouldn't it be safe to write that Calimmacil was born "18th c. TA"? At least not "Mid TA"!

--[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 07:26, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

:I'd say yes. It looks like a sound educated guess. On the other hand Foster's Guide suggests a century later for some reason. Your educated guess is as good as his. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:06, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

::Foster is not a primary source - can we stop regarding it as if it is? It's not been updated in 35 years! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 23:09, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

:::[[User:Mith|Mith]], who's quoting Foster here? I just compared different articles at TG to reach a logical conclusion. If those articles are based on Foster and according to you not accurate (enough), you should do something about it instead of venting your scorn for his book every so often! --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 10:56, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Category talk:Role playing games

2014-12-30T10:47:17Z

Earendilyon:

Could anyone clarify whether it is role-playing game, roleplaying game or role playing game? I have seen all three terms being used. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 18:33, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

:According to my Merriam-Webster dictionary app it's role-playing. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 10:47, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Talk:First Age

2014-12-22T12:54:02Z

Earendilyon:

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I always thought that the First Age started with the rising of the [[Sun]] and the [[Awakening of Men]]. This is supported by the articles [[Timeline]] and [[Timeline/First Age]]. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 10:02, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

:The [[Timeline]] (and its sub-pages) are undergoing revision by me; currently the article is incorrect as it only shows Years of the Sun and not Years of the Trees. In terms of this article, it's a bit a mess but fundamentally the First Age started at least in YT 1050 at the awakening of Elves. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:20, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

:The Silmarillion or the LOTR Appendicies don't specifically mention when the FA started. If you look at the Foster's Guide, he suggests that the FA started perhaps with the creation of Arda OR the creation of the Trees OR the Awakening of the Elves.
:The conventional date F.A. 1 is used only in Tolkienology or fandom, not by Tolkien himself. It doesn't mean "first year of the First Age" (as happens with S.A. 1 and T.A. 1 which are the first years of their respective Ages) but rather "first solar year". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:51, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

::Just to clarify, the terminology "F.A. 1" is used by Tolkien but does not mean the start of the First Age (as you rightly point out). The first line of the Foreword to ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' states "''The Silmarillion, now published four years after the death of its author, is an account of the Elder Days, or the First Age of the World.''" ''Morgoth's Ring'' states (p. 51) that the First Age began with the wakening of the Elves, but other texts imply that it began with the foundation of Arda (usually under the description of the "Elder Days"). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:24, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

:::Guess I was mistaken, all that time :-p In my mind, the timeline was Years of the Lamps, Years of the Trees, Years of the Sun, subdivided in FA, SA, TA and FoA. Remains the problem of counting years before the Sun was created... Without the Sun, you have no days, let alone years! The light of the Trees waxed and waned twice "per day", if I'm correct, but how to count the hours of a day? --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 07:19, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

::::It is a common misconception, I don't know where I first saw it, perhaps David Day's works. The "hours" of the Trees are described in the chapter [[Of the Beginning of Days]], which is laid down more comprehensively in the article [[Years of the Trees]]. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:36, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

:::::On [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/07/09/what-are-the-ages-of-the-sun/ Michael Martinez's site] Tolkien Gateway is accused of portraying a false interpretation of the several ages. Perhaps one of our admins could send him a message? --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 12:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Calimmacil

2014-12-21T18:06:12Z

Earendilyon:

__NOTOC__
{{gondorian infobox
| image=
| name=Calimmacil
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=[[Westron]]
| birth=Ca. mid-18th c. of the [[Third Age]]
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=[[House of Anárion]]
| parentage=[[Arciryas]]
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}'''Calimmacil''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[kaˈlimːakil]}}) was a [[Gondorians|Gondorian]] nobleman.
==History==
Calimmacil was the son of [[Arciryas]], and therefore a nephew of [[Narmacil II]] ({{TA|1684}}-{{TA|1856|n}}), the 29th [[King of Gondor]].

Calimmacil had a son, [[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]], and a grandson, [[Eärnil II|Eärnil]].

Nothing is known about the life of Calimmacil, who enters history because after King [[Ondoher]] and his sons were slain in battle, his grandson Eärnil was chosen to succeed Ondoher to the throne.<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref>

== Genealogy ==
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | |TLU| | | | |TLU=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br/>Umbardacil}}
{{familytree| | | | | |,|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| | | | |NAR| | | | | |ARC|NAR=[[Narmacil II]]|ARC=[[Arciryas]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| |}}
{{familytree| | | | |CAL| | | | | |CMM|CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]|CMM='''CALIMMACIL'''}}
{{familytree| | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| |}}
{{familytree| | | | |OND| | | | | |SIR|OND=[[Ondoher]] †|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]}}
{{familytree| |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}
{{familytree|ART| |FAR| |FIR| |EAR|ART=[[Artamir]] †|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]] †|FIR=[[Fíriel]]|EAR=[[Eärnil II]]}}
{{familytree/end}}

==Etymology==
''Calimmacil'' is [[Quenya]] for "Bright Sword", from ''[[calima]]'' "bright" and ''[[macil]]'' "sword".

{{references}}

[[Category:Gondorians]]
[[Category:House of Anárion]]
[[Category:Quenya names]]
[[de:Calimmacil]]
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:dunedain:gondoriens:calimmacil]]
[[fi:Calimmacil]]

Calimmacil

2014-12-21T18:00:26Z

Earendilyon: /* History */

__NOTOC__
{{gondorian infobox
| image=
| name=Calimmacil
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=[[Westron]]
| birth=Mid-[[Third Age]]
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=[[House of Anárion]]
| parentage=[[Arciryas]]
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}'''Calimmacil''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[kaˈlimːakil]}}) was a [[Gondorians|Gondorian]] nobleman.
==History==
Calimmacil was the son of [[Arciryas]], and therefore a nephew of [[Narmacil II]] ({{TA|1684}}-{{TA|1856|n}}), the 29th [[King of Gondor]].

Calimmacil had a son, [[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]], and a grandson, [[Eärnil II|Eärnil]].

Nothing is known about the life of Calimmacil, who enters history because after King [[Ondoher]] and his sons were slain in battle, his grandson Eärnil was chosen to succeed Ondoher to the throne.<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref>

== Genealogy ==
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | |TLU| | | | |TLU=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br/>Umbardacil}}
{{familytree| | | | | |,|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| | | | |NAR| | | | | |ARC|NAR=[[Narmacil II]]|ARC=[[Arciryas]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| |}}
{{familytree| | | | |CAL| | | | | |CMM|CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]|CMM='''CALIMMACIL'''}}
{{familytree| | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| |}}
{{familytree| | | | |OND| | | | | |SIR|OND=[[Ondoher]] †|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]}}
{{familytree| |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}
{{familytree|ART| |FAR| |FIR| |EAR|ART=[[Artamir]] †|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]] †|FIR=[[Fíriel]]|EAR=[[Eärnil II]]}}
{{familytree/end}}

==Etymology==
''Calimmacil'' is [[Quenya]] for "Bright Sword", from ''[[calima]]'' "bright" and ''[[macil]]'' "sword".

{{references}}

[[Category:Gondorians]]
[[Category:House of Anárion]]
[[Category:Quenya names]]
[[de:Calimmacil]]
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:dunedain:gondoriens:calimmacil]]
[[fi:Calimmacil]]

Shadowfax

2014-12-21T10:51:40Z

Earendilyon: /* History */

{{stub}}
[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Gandalf and Shadowfax.jpg|thumb|275px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Gandalf and Shadowfax'']]
'''Shadowfax''' was a mighty [[Horses|horse]] of [[Rohan]], the chief of the [[Mearas]], noted for its speed, "like an arrow".<ref name=siege>{{RK|Siege}}</ref>

==History==
In [[September]] {{TA|3018}} Gandalf was in [[Rohan]] and [[Théoden]] reluctantly gave him any horse of his choosing. At first the horse did not allow him to come near and Gandalf had to follow him far over the fields for two days before he tamed it.<ref>{{App|B3}}</ref>

It carried him throughout the [[War of the Ring]] without bridle or saddle. With it Gandalf rode to the [[Shire]] and then followed [[Frodo Baggins]]'s trail to [[Bree]], [[Weather Hills]] and [[Rivendell]]. In [[February]] of [[Third Age 3019|the next year]] Shadowfax returned to [[Edoras]].<ref>{{TT|Riders}}</ref>

Shadowfax came alone to Gandalf in the outskirts of the [[Fangorn Forest]] and he introduced the horse to the [[Three Hunters]]. [[Hasufel]] and [[Arod]] recognised it as their chieftain. Shadowfax carried Gandalf and [[Gimli]] to Edoras.<ref>{{TT|White}}</ref>

The horse was able to run from [[Edoras]] to [[Minas Tirith]] almost without stopping, and his ground speed rivalled the flying speed of the [[fell beasts]] of the [[Nazgûl]].<ref>{{RK|V1}}</ref>

Shadowfax also possessed extraordinary courage. He was the only free horse in the world<ref group=note>This reference excludes horses used by the forces of Sauron such as the horses ridden by the Nine Riders.</ref> capable of standing before the [[Witch-king|Lord of the Nazgûl]] during the [[Siege of Gondor]] instead of fleeing.<ref name=siege/>

Shadowfax was at the [[Grey Havens]] with [[Gandalf]] when he sailed on the [[White Ship]].<ref>{{RK|Havens}}</ref> Shadowfax, as one of the line of [[Nahar]] presumably was with him when sailing for the West.<ref>{{L|268}}</ref>

==Etymology==
It is an anglicized form of [[Old English]] ''Sceadu-faex'' 'having shadow-grey mane (and coat)'. It does not actually occur in Old English. Fax is an obsolete English word.<ref name="Nomen">{{HM|N}}, pp. 762-3</ref>
==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Shadowfax|Images of Shadowfax]]
{{references|notes}}
[[Category:Horses]]
[[de:Schattenfell]]
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:animaux:chevaux:gripoil]]
[[fi:Hallavaharja]]

Shadowfax

2014-12-21T10:50:07Z

Earendilyon:

{{stub}}
[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Gandalf and Shadowfax.jpg|thumb|275px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Gandalf and Shadowfax'']]
'''Shadowfax''' was a mighty [[Horses|horse]] of [[Rohan]], the chief of the [[Mearas]], noted for its speed, "like an arrow".<ref name=siege>{{RK|Siege}}</ref>

==History==
In [[September]] {{TA|3018}} Gandalf was in [[Rohan]] and [[Théoden]] reluctantly gave him any horse of his choosing and. At first the horse did not allow him to come near and Gandalf had to follow him far over the fields for two days before he tamed it.<ref>{{App|B3}}</ref>

It carried him throughout the [[War of the Ring]] without bridle or saddle. With it Gandalf rode to the [[Shire]] and then followed [[Frodo Baggins]]'s trail to [[Bree]], [[Weather Hills]] and [[Rivendell]]. In [[February]] of [[Third Age 3019|the next year]] Shadowfax returned to [[Edoras]].<ref>{{TT|Riders}}</ref>

Shadowfax came alone to Gandalf in the outskirts of the [[Fangorn Forest]] and he introduced the horse to the [[Three Hunters]]. [[Hasufel]] and [[Arod]] recognised it as their chieftain. Shadowfax carried Gandalf and [[Gimli]] to Edoras.<ref>{{TT|White}}</ref>

The horse was able to run from [[Edoras]] to [[Minas Tirith]] almost without stopping, and his ground speed rivalled the flying speed of the [[fell beasts]] of the [[Nazgûl]].<ref>{{RK|V1}}</ref>

Shadowfax also possessed extraordinary courage. He was the only free horse in the world<ref group=note>This reference excludes horses used by the forces of Sauron such as the horses ridden by the Nine Riders.</ref> capable of standing before the [[Witch-king|Lord of the Nazgûl]] during the [[Siege of Gondor]] instead of fleeing.<ref name=siege/>

Shadowfax was at the [[Grey Havens]] with [[Gandalf]] when he sailed on the [[White Ship]].<ref>{{RK|Havens}}</ref> Shadowfax, as one of the line of [[Nahar]] presumably was with him when sailing for the West.<ref>{{L|268}}</ref>

==Etymology==
It is an anglicized form of [[Old English]] ''Sceadu-faex'' 'having shadow-grey mane (and coat)'. It does not actually occur in Old English. Fax is an obsolete English word.<ref name="Nomen">{{HM|N}}, pp. 762-3</ref>
==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Shadowfax|Images of Shadowfax]]
{{references|notes}}
[[Category:Horses]]
[[de:Schattenfell]]
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:animaux:chevaux:gripoil]]
[[fi:Hallavaharja]]

Talk:Calimmacil

2014-12-21T07:30:27Z

Earendilyon: Oops!

'''Date of Birth'''

As Calimmacil was the son of the younger brother of Narmacil II, who was born TA 1684, wouldn't it be safe to write that Calimmacil was born "18th c. TA"? At least not "Mid TA"!

--[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 07:26, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Calimmacil

2014-12-21T07:26:31Z

Earendilyon: Created page with "'''Date of Birth''' As Calimmacil was the younger brother of Narmacil II, who was born TA 1684, wouldn't it be safe to write that Calimmacil was born "End 17th c. / begin 18th c...."

'''Date of Birth'''
As Calimmacil was the younger brother of Narmacil II, who was born TA 1684, wouldn't it be safe to write that Calimmacil was born "End 17th c. / begin 18th c. TA"? --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 07:26, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Talk:First Age

2014-12-18T07:20:21Z

Earendilyon: Typo

Talk:First Age

2014-12-18T07:19:32Z

Earendilyon:

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I always thought that the First Age started with the rising of the [[Sun]] and the [[Awakening of Men]]. This is supported by the articles [[Timeline]] and [[Timeline/First Age]]. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 10:02, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

:The [[Timeline]] (and its sub-pages) are undergoing revision by me; currently the article is incorrect as it only shows Years of the Sun and not Years of the Trees. In terms of this article, it's a bit a mess but fundamentally the First Age started at least in YT 1050 at the awakening of Elves. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:20, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

:The Silmarillion or the LOTR Appendicies don't specifically mention when the FA started. If you look at the Foster's Guide, he suggests that the FA started perhaps with the creation of Arda OR the creation of the Trees OR the Awakening of the Elves.
:The conventional date F.A. 1 is used only in Tolkienology or fandom, not by Tolkien himself. It doesn't mean "first year of the First Age" (as happens with S.A. 1 and T.A. 1 which are the first years of their respective Ages) but rather "first solar year". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:51, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

::Just to clarify, the terminology "F.A. 1" is used by Tolkien but does not mean the start of the First Age (as you rightly point out). The first line of the Foreword to ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' states "''The Silmarillion, now published four years after the death of its author, is an account of the Elder Days, or the First Age of the World.''" ''Morgoth's Ring'' states (p. 51) that the First Age began with the wakening of the Elves, but other texts imply that it began with the foundation of Arda (usually under the description of the "Elder Days"). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:24, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

:::Guess I was mistaken, al that time :-p In my mind, the timeline was Years of the Lamps, Years of the Trees, Years of the Sun, subdivided in FA, SA, TA and FoA. Remains the problem of counting years before the Sun was created... Without the Sun, you have no days, let alone years! The light of the Trees waxed and waned twice "per day", if I'm correct, but how to count the hours of a day? --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 07:19, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

User talk:Earendilyon

2014-12-15T10:20:15Z

Earendilyon: /* Hello! */

Just leaving a 'Hi I'm Earendilyon' note ;)

As a bit of a Latin fan(atic) I registered because I saw a bad translation of a Latin word (see Arda article and discussion). Otherwise, I've no conmtributions (yet) that I know of. But we'll see.

- Earendilyon

== Welcome! ==

Hey there Earendilyon. Just thought I'd leave a bit of a 'hello' for you. Just saw your edit on the [[Arda]] and [[Middle-earth]] articles, great contribution! It's great to have another Tolkien scholar around to help fix all the errors we have accumulated. You wouldn't happen to be the same Earendilyon from [http://www.minastirith.com MinasTirith.com] by any chance would you? Thanks again for stopping in and we'd love to see you back :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:59, 1 February 2006 (EST)

----

Hiyah Hyarion!

Ofcourse, I'm one and the same :) I'm also member at other boards than [http://www.minastirith.com MinasTirith.com] though, but MT is indeed my [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] home base. You may also know me, btw, of my [http://www.geocities.com/dominusanulorum/ Dominus Anulorum] project.

- Earendilyon

----

Ah, very cool! You really need to stop in on the [http://tolkiengateway.net/java/ IRC chat server] we've been trying to get the citizens to chat on there more often but it's going slow. You can find myself, Lord Mithrandir, Ardamir, Halion, and a few other regulars, we've been trying to setup weekly Lore discussions as well. Also forgive the recent site downtime, in the 3+ years we've had the site up that's longest we've been offline and I was just pulling my hair out, oh well at least it's fixed. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 18:31, 4 February 2006 (EST)

== Spam and Reversions ==

Thanks for keeping an eye on that spam for me, it comes in everyday and it's become a routine having to remove the filth. They usually edit as anonymous users so I've been tempting to just require anonymous user's edits to be verified by an administrator but I just feel that would take away from the wiki/edit anything instantly aspect.

If someone has messed up a page beyond recognition a good trick is to click the History tab, and you can see a list of all stages the page has been in, thank goodness the software keeps everything. Then you can click say the last edit by me, and it will show you what the page should look like, before the spam. Then you can just click edit and save and it'll save that older revision over the spam. Sorry I'm terrible at explaining things but hopefully you understand what I mean. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 12:59, 5 February 2006 (EST)

P.S. Thanks for the help.

----
I'll see what I can do in that respect. If I don't succeed with this explanation at hand, I'll get in touch :)

- [[User:Earendilyon|Ear.]]

----
Be careful on [[Talk:Main Page]] when removing the spam because a lot of times the spammer will replace comments on the page with spam, so if we just manually remove the spam we lose the comment(s) that was replaced. The best way is to click the History tab, click the last 'good' edit, click Edit, and then save it. Thanks again for the help :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:05, 2 March 2006 (EST)

Sorry, my mistake. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 04:10, 3 March 2006 (EST)

== Minas Tirith Library ==

One thing I've had in the idea queue is going through [http://www.minastirith.com Minas Tirith's] index topics and library and under 'External Links' on say the [[Balrogs]] article, link to relevant Balrog discussions. The wiki really isn't meant as a forum for debates/discussions so linking to forum discussions would interest people I think. What do you think? Of course we'd utilize other forums after MT but I think it would be a great place to start and give WGW some free traffic. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 19:08, 16 February 2006 (EST)

== Happy Birthday! ==

Just thought I'd wish you a happy birthday, luckily I saw the thread on [http://www.minastirith.com Minas Tirith] or I would not have known. As I write in all the birthday cards: Have fun on your birthday...because it could be your last :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 21:51, 16 March 2006 (EST)

:Thank you very much! I had fun, even though you posted this 2:51 hours after my birthday ended ;) --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 05:27, 17 March 2006 (EST)

::Hah, well to be fair it was still your birthday where I live :p --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:10, 17 March 2006 (EST)

== User boxes ==

Don't be modest with lore-2, go for a lore-3 :p If you think of any other user box ideas, let me know. I think a "This user prefers evil" with a red/black color scheme, then a good one, then maybe a box for each race, etc. Just things to spice up the user pages and add a bit of fun. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 03:31, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

:I did indeed doubt a bit between lore-2 and lore-3, but decided on 2, as you also have that on your page ;-) Personally, I don't "prefer evil" but rather the "good side".
:Are you suffering from insomnia, btw? You're always up so late in the night! --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 03:36, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

::Hehe, I never stated you should have an evil user box, it was a just suggestion for the site in general, but your quickness to deny it only proves it more so :p It's not very late here, only 12:44pm. The wiki is quite an addiction, I will admit to that, I would have thought this far into it I would have become bored but my interest seems to increase constantly. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 03:44, 21 April 2006 (EDT)

== *bows* ==

Hey there :) had someone from [http://www.theone-boards.net theone-boards.net] stop by the chat today, they said they heard about the encyclopedia from some thread and when I went to the forums and saw your name on the active users list I said to myself, hmm, I think I can take a guess where they heard it from :p Just wanted to give you a big thanks for helping to get the word out there. Your quote makes it all worth it :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:57, 6 May 2006 (EDT)

{{quote|About that "dedication champ" mentioned by Durin, the Tolkien Gateway is led by a very driven guy, Hyarion, and also by some other dedicated contributors. IMHO, it has the potential of becoming the best Tolkien encyclopedia out there, and, moreover, hard on its way to make true that potential.|[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]]}}

::Well, if you've had a look at that particular thread, it's about starting an encyclopedia at [http://www.theone-boards.net theone-boards.net] itself. I wrote a post in it long before I encountered the Gateway, supporting the idea. Since it (still) isn't more than an idea, I mentioned the Gateway before, and yesterday again. The more people know about it, the better, I figured :-) --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 07:02, 7 May 2006 (EDT)

==Minas Tirith==
(In Dutch for the heck of it) Ear, net een vraag van Pi (op MT) beantwoord over de Holland/Nederland kwestie. Waar in Nederland ligt jouw Rivendell? -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 13:04, 20 January 2008 (EST)

:De populairste boeken zijn de heel goeden en de belabberd slechten. Je hebt me nieuwsgierig gemaakt.
:He bleek trouwens wel een winkeldochter (bij De Slegte hier in de stad) te zijn. Die gast achter de balie waarschuwde me dat het slecht was en was blij toen ik hem vertelde dat ik het juist daarom kocht. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:30, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Two Trees ==

Thank-you for correcting my verb (shown). I don't know how I did that! -Ingwe

:You're welcome! ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 15:06, 9 February 2008 (EST)

== Just a small mistake ==
Hi, I know my English isn´t perfect... I've had a lots of problems with my profile and with pictures. I would like to find someone who can help me, not only say to me what's bad... If you find a mistake in my English you can correct it, if you want... Today I am sick and tired from "html language", so I go away...[[User:Gaelle Thenidiel|Gaelle Thenidiel]] .

==Time Zones==

'ello ! :) I deleted the 'this night' part from your post on "Tolkien Gateway:Updates" because of the time differences (we have posters here from at least 3 continents, from what I saw so far). So I think it's better just to mention the date. And ...'Yay for us!' of course . :) ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 04:26, 12 July 2008 (EDT)

== Meeting - Sunday 5th September ==

Hi, Earendilyon! Just a quick message to inform you that we are holding our next [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings|Meeting]] on [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010|Sunday, 5<sup>th</sup> September 2010]] at 7pm [[wikipedia:UTC|UTC]]. Whether you are or aren't able to attend, please sign your name on the [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 September 2010|here]]. Hope to see you on Sunday! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:02, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Meeting - Sunday 3rd October ==

Hi Earendilyon - do you reckon you'll be available for [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|tomorrow's meeting]]? It would be good to see you there! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Hello! ==

Welcome back! I very much hope I'll be seeing you around a lot more. :) --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:05, 12 December 2014

(UTC)Dunno, but I have some extra time on my hands right now ;-) --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 10:20, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Talk:First Age

2014-12-15T10:08:50Z

Earendilyon:

Talk:First Age

2014-12-15T10:02:18Z

Earendilyon: Created page with "Maybe I'm mistaken, but I always thought that the First Age started with the rising of the Sun and the Awakening of Men. This is supported by the article [[Timeline/First..."

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I always thought that the First Age started with the rising of the [[Sun]] and the [[Awakening of Men]]. This is supported by the article [[Timeline/First Age]]. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 10:02, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

User:Earendilyon

2014-12-11T07:13:07Z

Earendilyon:

{|align=right border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=4
!align=center bgcolor=#FFFFFF|Information
|-
|[[Image:J.R.R._Tolkien_-_Earendil's_Heraldic_Device.JPG|center|thumb|230px|Heraldic Device of [[Eärendil]] and his House.]]
|-
|{{user lore-2}}
|-
|{{User hobbits}}
|-
|{{User entwives2}}
|-
|{{user balrogwings2}}
|}

Hi all!

My on-line name is Earendilyon. I've known Tolkien's writings since the late '80s and have most of his work in my possession, and a lot about him and/or about his writings.

Other interests of mine are:
* (Medieval) History (I've got an MA in it)
* Languages (especially Latin)
* Hiking
* Reading

--[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 04:59, 8 February 2006 (EST)

== My Tolkien Library ==
''Books by Tolkien:''
* [[The Silmarillion]] (also in Dutch translation)
* [[The Hobbit]] (twice; also in Dutch translation by [[Max Schuchart]])
* [[The Annotated Hobbit]]
* [[The Lord of the Rings]] (twice; also in Dutch translation by Max Schuchart, also twice)
* [[Unfinished Tales]] (also in Dutch translation)
* [[The History of Middle-earth]] by [[Christopher Tolkien]]:
:#[[The Book of Lost Tales Part One]]
:#[[The Book of Lost Tales Part Two]]
:#[[The Lays of Beleriand]]
:#[[The Shaping of Middle-earth]]
:#[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]
:#[[The Return of the Shadow]]
:#[[The Treason of Isengard]]
:#[[The War of the Ring]]
:#[[Sauron Defeated]]
:#[[Morgoth's Ring]]
:#[[The War of the Jewels]]
:#[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]
* [[The Children of Húrin]]
* [[The Road Goes Ever On (book)|The Road Goes Ever On]]
* [[The Tolkien Reader]]
* [[Farmer Giles of Ham]]
* [[Smith of Wootton Major]] & Farmer Giles of Ham (in one volume)
* [[Mr. Bliss]] (in Italian translation)
* [[Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics]]
* [[The Father Christmas Letters]] (also in [http://ardapedia.herr-der-ringe-film.de/index.php/Die_Briefe_vom_Weihnachtsmann German translation])
* [[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]

''Books about Tolkien:''
* Tolkien quizboek, S. Buchholz
* Tolkien, [[Humphrey Carpenter]]
* [[Tolkien: A Look Behind The Lord of the Rings]], [[Lin Carter]]
* [[Tolkien the Medievalist]], Jane Chance ed.
* [[Some Light on Middle-earth]], Edward Crawford
* [[A Tolkien Bestiary]], [[David Day]]
* [[A-Z of Tolkien]], D. Day
* [[Tolkien's Ring]], D. Day
* De wereld van de Hobbits, D. Day
* J.R.R. Tolkien, R. Evans
* [[The Complete Guide to Middle-earth]], [[Robert Foster]]
* [[Realms of Tolkien|Realms of Tolkien. Images of Middle Earth]], HarperCollins
* [[Myth, Magic and Meaning in Tolkien's World|Tolkien's World]], Randy Helms (twice: pb. & hardc.)
* Tolkien, Hexa 2
* [[The Magical World of the Inklings]], Gareth Knight
* Meester van Midden-aarde, Paul Kocher
* [[A Tolkien Compass]], [[Jared Lobdell]] ed.
* [[The Mythology of Middle-earth]], [[Ruth S. Noel]]
* J.R.R.Tolkien. Fantasy Literature als Wunscherfüllung und Weltdeutung , D. Petzold
* Tolkien, in de ban van zijn werk, M. Schuchart
* [[The Road to Middle-earth]] by [[Tom Shippey]]
* [[Tolkien Lexicon]], [[J.E.A. Tyler]]
* Motieven in Midden-aarde. Essays over Tolkien en fantasy, Lembas-extra 1988, Unquendor
* Symboliek van In de Ban van de Ring, M. Uyldert

Essë

2014-12-11T07:09:14Z

Earendilyon:

__NOTOC__
'''''essë''''' is a noun meaning "name" in [[Quenya]].<ref name="Names">{{App|Letters}}, Note, ''The names of the letters''</ref> Compare with ''[[eneth]]'' in [[Sindarin]].

==Elvish Naming==
[[High Elves]] have a naming tradition, the '''''essë''''', which gives an Elf three different names at various times of the lives. They are the '''[[essi]]''' ("father-name"), the '''[[amilessë]]''' ("mother-name"), and the '''[[epessë]]''' ("after-name" or honorary title). On a few occasions an Elf might choose a '''[[Kilmessi]]''' or "self-name".

* [[Essi]]: chosen by the father and often based on the father's own name or derived from old legends. Given at or near birth.
* [[Amilessë]]: chosen by the mother and often prophetic in nature. Given sometimes at or near birth but often bestowed years later.
* [[Epessë]]: often acquired by an Elf as an honorific later in life.
* [[Kilmessi]]: sometimes chosen by an Elf as a disguise or to refer to deeds and personal history.

The ''amilessë'' was a private name used by family and close friends. The ''essi'' is the name an Elf used in public until an ''epessë'' was chosen.<ref>{{PM|Shibboleth}}, ''Note on Mother-names'', p. 339</ref> In ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', when an Elf does not yet have an ''epessë'', the Sindarin version of his mother- or father-name is used instead.

===Examples===
* '''[[Maglor]]''': The son of [[Fëanor]] of the [[House of Finwë]], was given the ''essi'' ''Kanafinwë'' ("Strong-voiced [of] Finwë"). His amilessë was ''[[Makalaurë]]'' ("Forging Gold" in a poetic sense).<ref name="Sons">{{PM|Shibboleth}}, ''The names of the Sons of Fëanor with the legend of the fate of Amrod'', p. 353</ref> The name Maglor is the [[Sindarin]] version of his mother-name.

* '''[[Gil-galad|Ereinion Gil-galad]]''': The son of [[Orodreth]] was given the ''essi'' ''[[Gil-galad|Rodnor]]''.<ref>{{PM|Shibboleth}}, ''The parentage of Gil-galad'', p. 350</ref> His ''amilessë'' was ''[[Gil]]-[[galad]]'' ("Star of Radiance"). As [[High King of the Noldor]], his ''epessë'' was ''[[Gil-galad|Ereinion]]'' ("Scion of Kings").<ref name="Descendant">{{PM|Shibboleth}}, ''The names of Finwë's descendants'', p. 347</ref>

* '''[[Finrod|Finrod Felagund]]''': The son of [[Finarfin]] was given the ''essi'' of ''[[Finrod|Findaráto]]'' ("Golden-haired Champion"). His amilessë was ''[[Ingoldo]]'' ("The Noldo", singular for [[Noldor]]).<ref name="Descend">{{PM|Shibboleth}}, ''The names of Finwë's descendants'', p. 346</ref> He is usually referred to as ''[[Felagund]]'' ("Hewer of Caves"),<ref>{{PM|Shibboleth}}, ''The Dwarvish origin of the name Felagund'', p. 351</ref> originally a derogatory nickname given to him because of his dwelling at [[Nargothrond]]. Finrod adopted the name as his ''epessë'' and made it a title of honour. The name Finrod is the Sindarin version of his father-name.

* '''[[Galadriel]]''': The only daughter of Finarfin was given the ''essi'' of ''[[Artanis]]'' ("Noble Woman") and the ''amilessë'' of ''[[Nerwen]]'' ("Man-maiden") because of her height and strength.<ref name="Descend"/> Her ''epessë'', ''[[Alatáriel]]'' ("Maiden Crowned with Radiant Garland"), was given to her by her husband, [[Celeborn]]. The name Galadriel is the Sindarin version of her ''epessë''.<ref name="Descendant"/>

* '''[[Amras]]''': The last son of the House of Finwë was given the ''essi'' ''[[Telufinwë]]'', ("Last [of] Finwë"). His first ''amilessë'' was ''[[Ambarussa]]'' ("Top-russet" referring to his hair), his twin-brother [[Amrod]] hat the same ''amilessë''. To distinguish the two Amrod was given a second ''amilessë'': ''[[Umbarto]]'' ("The Fated").<ref name="Sons"/> His mother's choice was prophetic, because Amrod was the first of the [[sons of Fëanor]] to die, accidentally killed in the swan ships of the Teleri when his father ordered them to be burnt at [[Losgar]]. The name Amras is the Sindarin version of ''Ambarussa''.

==Tengwa==
[[Image:Essë.gif|left]]''Essë'' is also the name in later Quenya of the thirty-first letter of the [[Tengwar]] alphabet, representing '''SS'''. The original name of this letter was ''Áze'', but over time the phonemes for "z" and "r" merged and the letter was renamed ''Áre''. Since ''[[Óre]]'' (letter 21) represents untrilled "r" and ''[[Rómen]]'' (letter 25) represents trilled "r", ''Áre'' became superfluous. This letter was then renamed ''Essë'' and represents "ss", but only in written Quenya.<ref name="Names"/>


==See also==
* [http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/qlist.htm Quenya Corpus Wordlist] edited by [[Helge Fauskanger]]

{{references}}
{{title|lowercase}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Esse}}
[[Category:Essi| ]]
[[Category:Quenya nouns]]
[[Category:Tengwar letters]]
[[de:Namensgebung]]
[[fr:langues/textes/noms-elfes]]
[[fi:Eldarin nimenantotavat]]

Geldrop

2011-02-02T20:09:10Z

Earendilyon:

'''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geldrop Geldrop]''' is a Dutch town which has a [http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=nl&geocode=&q=Geldrop&aq=2&sll=52.469397,5.509644&sspn=4.759101,9.876709&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Geldrop,+Geldrop-Mierlo,+Noord-Brabant&ll=51.410409,5.546937&spn=0.009516,0.01929&z=16 neighbourhood] with streets named after several characters from [[Tolkien]]'s [[Legendarium]], while the main road is named ''Tolkien Avenue'' (Du.: Laan van Tolkien). Though the neighbourhood has streets with names of lesser known characters as [[Farin]], [[Cirion]] and [[Silmariën]], there is no street named after one of the best known characters, [[Bilbo Baggins]].

Geldrop

2011-02-02T20:07:07Z

Earendilyon: Town with streets named after Tolkien characters

'''Geldrop''' is a Dutch town which has a [http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=nl&geocode=&q=Geldrop&aq=2&sll=52.469397,5.509644&sspn=4.759101,9.876709&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Geldrop,+Geldrop-Mierlo,+Noord-Brabant&ll=51.410409,5.546937&spn=0.009516,0.01929&z=16 neighbourhood] with streets named after several characters from [[Tolkien]]'s [[Legendarium]], while the main road is named ''Tolkien Avenue'' (Du.: Laan van Tolkien). Though the neighbourhood has streets with names of lesser known characters as [[Farin]], [[Cirion]] and [[Silmariën]], there is no street named after one of the best known characters, [[Bilbo Baggins]].

Genesis

2010-06-29T17:56:07Z

Earendilyon:

{{expansion}}
{{video game infobox
| image=None
| name=Genesis
| developer=[[Pål-Kristian Engstad]]
| publisher=[[Pål-Kristian Engstad]]
| platform=[[Wikipedia:DEC Alpha|DEC Alpha]]
| releasedate=[[1988]]
| genre=[[wikipedia:LPMud|LP MUD]]
|}}

'''Genesis''' is a [[MUDs|MUD]] based on the Norwegian MUD [[Ringen]]. It was translated into English and converted to MUD-format by [[Pål-Kristian Engstad]]. It consists many regions like [[Moria]] (from the original Ringen MUD) but also new ones like [[the Shire]] and [[Gondor]]. The game was released in 1988 and is still running. In 1991 a new version was published.<ref>[http://www.lysator.liu.se/mud/katmandus/Genesis.html Tolkien Games]</ref>

== External Links ==

* [telnet://genesis.cs.chalmers.se:3011/ Play the game]
* [http://www.neosoft.com/genesis/ WWW-page]
* [http://www.mudconnect.com/mud-bin/simple_search.cgi?Mode=MUD&mud=Genesis]

{{References}}

[[Category:Multi-User Dungeons]]

Talk:Genesis

2010-06-28T20:28:54Z

Earendilyon: MUD?

===MUD===

What's MUD? IMHO, that deserves at least a link to Wikipedia or so. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 20:28, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Genesis

2010-06-28T20:26:02Z

Earendilyon: Typos

{{expansion}}
{{video game infobox
| image=None
| name=Genesis
| developer=[[Pål-Kristian Engstad]]
| publisher=[[Pål-Kristian Engstad]]
| platform=[[Wikipedia:DEC Alpha|DEC Alpha]]
| releasedate=[[1988]]
| genre=[[wikipedia:LPMud|LP MUD]]
|}}

'''Genesis''' is a MUD based on the Norwegian MUD [[Ringen]]. It was translated into English and converted to MUD-format by [[Pål-Kristian Engstad]]. It consists many regions like [[Moria]] (from the original Ringen MUD) but also new ones like [[the Shire]] and [[Gondor]]. The game was released in 1988 and is still running. In 1991 a new version was published.<ref>[http://www.lysator.liu.se/mud/katmandus/Genesis.html Tolkien Games]</ref>

== External Links ==

* [telnet://genesis.cs.chalmers.se:3011/ Play the game]
* [http://www.neosoft.com/genesis/ WWW-page]
* [http://www.mudconnect.com/mud-bin/simple_search.cgi?Mode=MUD&mud=Genesis]

{{References}}

[[Category:Multi-User Dungeons]]

Ringen

2010-06-28T20:24:34Z

Earendilyon: Typo

{{expansion}}
{{video game infobox
| image=None
| name=Ringen
| developer=[[Hansen]], [[Pål-Kristian Engstad]], [[Per Arne Engstad]]
| publisher=None
| platform=[[wikipedia:Numerical control|CNC]], [[wikipedia:Commodore 64|Commodore 64]], [[wikipedia:MS-DOS|MS-DOS]]
| releasedate=[[1979]]
| genre=Unkown
|}}
'''Ringen''' is a 1979 text adventure video game writen by Hansen. The only region in this game was [[Moria]]. It was later converted in Mudformat (''VikingMUD'' and ''Genesis''), expanded and translated by [[Pål-Kristian Engstad]] and [[Per Arne Engstad]].

[[Category:Text-Adventure video games]]

Letter to Przemyslaw Mroczkowski (9/10 November 1957)

2010-06-27T09:59:11Z

Earendilyon: A letter written in 1957 isn't written on 2 August 1946 ;-)

'''Przemyslaw Mroczkowski 1957''' is a [[Letters not published in "The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien"|letter]] from [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] to Professor [[Przemyslaw Mroczkowski]], written some time in [[1957]].

*'''Authenticity''': High (provenance: by descent from the recipient; also included in ''[http://mysite.verizon.net/wghammond/addenda/chronology.html Addenda and Corrigenda to The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide: Chronology]'')
*'''Publication:''' A description of the letter was included in ''[[Christie's Fine Printed Books and Manuscripts 1 June 2009]]''.

== Contents ==

[Description and excerpt:] "Tolkien discusses his extensive proposed changes to Mroczkowski's essay on Chaucer ('Your style uses too many abstract nouns for my taste')."<ref>[http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?pos=7&intObjectID=5210972&sid= Christies.com], retrieved June 27, 2010</ref>

{{references}}

[[CATEGORY:Letters]]

Forums:Database Lock

2010-06-21T21:40:34Z

Earendilyon:

<div style="background: #eee; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 5px">'''[[Main Page|Tolkien Gateway]] > [[Forum:Council|Council]] > {{PAGENAME}}'''</div> [[Category:Council]]


First off, I want to thank everyone for reverting all the spam edits and tagging false pages for deletion.

The spam we've had this past months is hard to miss. And it seems endless. So, in [[User_talk:Ederchil#Anti-spam_strategies|a small (and frankly, one-sided) discussion]], three users expressed the interest in locking the database for all unregistered users (perhaps only temporary), arguing that the little contributions we get from anons is a small loss compared to the gain of stopping the spam dead.

But me being Dutch and all (and one of the Dutch mantra's is "discussing without deciding is better than deciding without discussing"), want to put up a vote.

:Considering the need for a decision, vote before Wednesday, June 23, 18:00 UTC.
<big>'''The Database Should Be Locked To Unregistered Users'''</big><br>
;Support:
# {{User:Ederchil/sig}}
# {{User:Mith/sig}}
# [[User:Morgan]]
# [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]]

:'''Arguments in Support:'''
:* It stops the spambots cold.
:* Therefore, it doesn't ruin Recent Changes and Page History any longer.
:* Furthermore, it would prevent the wrecking (if only temporarily) of articles.
:* The effort of reverting and deleting the pages is time consuming and really, really works on [[User:Ederchil|my]] nerves.
:* Anonymous edits these past months haven't really been good edits, or are edits that wouldn't be missed.

;Oppose
#

:'''Arguments in Opposition:'''
:* It prevents anonymous edits, some of which are useful.
:* It could discourage editors signing-up (as some users edit anonymously before joining) at a time when the Gateway needs more editors.
:* It could, as a result, make the Tolkien Gateway are more insular and closed community.

Quenya

2010-06-19T15:16:46Z

Earendilyon: Undo revision 109909 by 91.83.40.182 (Talk)

{{Pronounce|Quenya - Quenya.mp3|Gilgamesh}}
'''Quenya''' (pron. {{IPA|[ˈkʷeɲa]}}) was one of the languages spoken by the [[Elves]]. It was the tongue that developed among those non-[[Teleri|Telerin]] [[Elves]] who reached [[Aman]] (the [[High Elves]]) from an earlier language called [[Common Eldarin]]. Quenya was typically written with the [[Tengwar]] of [[Fëanor]]. An older script, [[Rúmil (Elf of Tirion)|Rúmil]]'s [[Sarati]], was used also.

==History==
Of the three clans of Elves in Aman, the [[Noldor]] and the [[Vanyar]] spoke slightly different, though mutually intelligible, dialects of Quenya (''[[Noldorin Quenya]]'' and ''[[Vanyarin Quenya]]'' or ''[[Quendya]]'' respectively). The word Quenya, however, usually refers to Noldorin Quenya, since it was the only Quenya dialect spoken in [[Middle-earth]].

The language was also adopted by the [[Valar]] who also made some new introductions into it from their [[Valarin|own language]], though these loanwords are more numerous in the Vanyarin dialect than the Noldorin one. This is probably the case because of the enduringly close relationship the Vanyar had with the Valar. The third clan in Aman, the [[Teleri]], spoke a different, closely related language: [[Telerin]], although this was by some seen as a dialect of Quenya which was untrue in a historic perspective but plausible in a linguistic one; the languages did not share a common history but were very much alike.

The Noldor who fled to [[Middle-earth]] following the [[Darkening of Valinor]] spoke Quenya among themselves. However, when Elu [[Thingol]] of Doriath, who was the king of the [[Sindar]] (Elves of the Telerin line who remained in [[Beleriand]] instead of journeying to Valinor) learnt about their slaying of the Teleri, he forbade the use of Quenya in all his realm. The Sindar, had been slow to learn Quenya anyway, while the Noldor at this time had fully mastered Sindarin.

The Quenya used in Middle-earth of the [[Third Age]] (the time of the setting of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'') had come to be a scholarly pursuit; it was not typically used in conversation. It was preserved as a formal language and for writing; Sindarin was the vernacular of all Elves. However, the Noldor still remembered Quenya and valued it highly; for example, [[Gildor Inglorion|Gildor]] and his party appreciated [[Frodo Baggins]]'s greeting ''Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo''. ("A star shines on the hour of our meeting.") [[Galadriel]] was perhaps the only Elf in Middle-earth during the events of ''The Lord of the Rings'' who had learned Quenya as a cradle-tongue: she was born in Valinor, during the days of the Two Trees. Noldorin (Exilic) Quenya differed somewhat from Valinórean Quenya, because the language continued to evolve after exile, and it underwent some regularisation as it became a language of lore. There were also a few changes in pronunciation.

The poem [[Namárië]] is the longest piece of Quenya found in the ''Lord of the Rings''. It is also known as Galadriel's Lament.

==Grammar==
''Note: these rules apply only to Noldorin Quenya, being the only dialect spoken in Middle-earth''.

Quenya was an agglutinative SVO language. It had a relatively free word order since most information was expressed morphologically rather than syntactically. The different word classes of Quenya are explained below.

===Nouns===
Nouns are declined for ten cases: the nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, instrumental, possessive, locative, allative, ablative, and a tenth "mystery" case sometimes called the "respective".

*The nominative is used mainly to mark the subject of a verb. In spoken Quenya it also functions as the accusative (see below). It is also used with prepositions.
*The accusative marks the direct object of a verb. It is not used in spoken Quenya, having been replaced by the nominative, but appears in writing.
*The genitive is mainly used to mark origin (e. g. the best smiths ''of'' ''Tirion''). Its usage sometimes overlaps the ablative.
*The dative marks the indirect object of a verb.
*The instrumental marks a noun which is used as a tool or instrument.
*The possessive marks possession or ownership. This usage sometimes overlaps with the genitive.
*The locative expresses location or position.
*The allative expresses motion towards.
*The ablative expresses motion away from.
*The "mystery" or respective case may be a figurative equivalent of the locative case (e.g. "about wolves" or "regarding wolves").

There are four numbers: the singular, dual, plural, and partitive plural.

====Vocalic Declension====
{| rules=all style="text-align: left; border: 1px solid darkgray;" cellpadding=3
|-
| rowspan=2 |
| colspan=4 | '''a-, i-, ie-, o-, and u-stems'''
| colspan=4 | '''e-stems'''
|-
| '''Singular''' || '''Dual''' || '''Plural''' || '''Part. Plural''' || '''Singular''' || '''Dual''' || '''Plural''' || '''Part. Plural'''
|-
| '''Nominative''' || yulma || yulmat || yulmar || yulmali || lassë || lasset || lassi || lasseli
|-
| '''Accusative''' || yulmá || ?yulmat || yulmë || yulmalá || lassé || ?lasset || lassi || lasselí;
|-
| '''Genitive''' || yulmo || yulmato || yulmaron || yulmalion || lassëo || lasseto || lassion || lasselion
|-
| '''Dative''' || yulman || yulmant || yulmain || yulmalin || lassen || lassent || lassin || lasselin
|-
| '''Instrumental''' || yulmanen || yulmanten || yulmainen || yulmalínen || lassenen || lassenten || lassinen || lasselínen
|-
| '''Possessive''' || yulmava || yulmatwa || yulmaiva || yulmalíva || lasseva || lassetwa || lassiva || lasselíva
|-
| '''Locative''' || yulmassë || yulmatsë || yulmassen || yulmalissë || lassessë || lassetsë || lassessen || lasselissë
|-
| '''Allative''' || yulmanna || yulmanta || yulmannar || yulmalinna || lassenna || lassenta || lassennar || lasselinna
|-
| '''Ablative''' || yulmallo || yulmalto || yulmallon || yulmalillo || lassello || lasselto || lassellon || lasselillo
|-
| '''Respective''' || yulmas || yulmates || yulmais || yulmalis || lasses || lassetes || lassis || lasselis
|}

====Consonantal Declension====
{| rules=all style="text-align: left; border: 1px solid darkgray;" cellpadding=3
|-
|
| '''Singular''' || '''Dual''' || '''Plural''' || '''Part. Plural'''
|-
| '''Nominative''' || nat || natu || nati || nateli
|-
| '''Accusative''' || nat || natu || nati || nateli
|-
| '''Genitive''' || nato || natuo || nation || natelion
|-
| '''Dative''' || naten || natuen || natin || natelin
|-
| '''Instrumental''' || natenen || natunen || natinen || natelínen
|-
| '''Possessive''' || natwa || natuva || nativa || natelíva
|-
| '''Locative''' || natessë || natussë || natissen || natelissë
|-
| '''Allative''' || natenna || natenta || natinnar || natelinna
|-
| '''Ablative''' || natello || natelto || natillon || natelillo
|-
| '''Respective''' || nates || natus || natis || natelis
|}

===Verbs===
There are two main types of verbs: basic verbs, those which are formed from the basic verbal base, such as ''tirë'' (''tiri''-) "watch" from *TIR, and derivative verbs, which are formed either by putting verbal suffixes to a base like ''tulta''- "summon", from *TUL "come", or derived from non-verbal bases like ''cúna''- "bend", originally an adjective "bent".

{| rules=all style="text-align: left; border: 1px solid darkgray;" cellpadding=3
|-
| rowspan=2 | || colspan=2 | '''Derivative verbs''' || colspan=2 | '''Basic verbs'''
|-
| '''Singular''' || '''Plural''' || '''Singular''' || '''Plural'''
|-
| '''Infinitive''' || colspan=2 | tulta || colspan=2 | tirë (tirita-)
|-
| '''Aorist/Simple present''' || tulta || tultar || tirë (tiri-) || tirir
|-
| '''Present continuative''' || tultëa || tultëar || tíra || tírar
|-
| '''Past''' || tultanë || tultaner || tirnë || tirner
|-
| '''Future''' || tultuva || tultuvar || tiruva || tiruvar
|-
| '''Perfect''' || utultië || utultier || itírië || itírier
|}

===Pronouns===
Pronouns are seen as both independent words and enclitics; however the rules for this are not completely understood, although evidence sugests that independent forms are more emphatic in nature, while enclitics are the forms in use normally. What is known is that for intransitive verbs, the pronoun can appear as either an independent word or an enclitic. The enclitics often come in two different forms, long and short. The following table outlines the different forms attested. Hypothetical or reconstructed forms are indicated by either question marks or asterisks. Those forms that cannot be determined are not included and their absence is indicated by an emdash.

{| rules=all style="text-align: left; border: 1px solid darkgray;" cellpadding=3
|-
| rowspan=2 colspan=2 | || colspan=2 | '''Independent''' || colspan=2 | '''Enclitic''' || colspan=2 | '''Independent Example''' || colspan=2 | '''Enclitic Example'''
|-
| '''Singular''' || '''Plural''' || '''Singular''' || '''Plural''' || '''Singular''' || '''Plural''' || '''Singular''' || '''Plural'''
|-
| rowspan=2 | '''First Person''' || '''Inclusive''' || rowspan=2 | ni, inyë || *elvë, *elwë || rowspan=2 | -n, -nyë || -lvë,<br>-lwë || rowspan=2 | inyë tirë || elvë/elwë tirir || rowspan=2 | tirinyë, tirin || tirilvë, tirilwë
|-
| '''Exclusive''' || *elmë || -lmë || elmë tirir || tirilmë
|-
| colspan=2 | '''Second Person''' || le, elyë || le, ellë || -l, -lyë || ?-llë || elyë tirë || ?ellë tirir, elyë tirir || tiril, tirilyë || ?tirillë, tirilyë
|-
| colspan=2 | '''Third Person''' || se || te || -s, -ryë || -t,<br>-ntë || se tirë || ?entë tirir || tiris, tiriryë || tirit, tirintë
|}

Aside from inclusive and exclusive modes in the first person plural, there is also a dual mode, denoted by ''emmë'', ''-mmë''. The pronouns can be declined much like the regular nouns; for instance, the dative form of ''emmë'' is ''emmen''. This appears to be mostly regular, except for ''te'', "they", which takes the dative form ''tien''.

==Inspiration==
Quenya's phonology and grammar are most strongly influenced by Finnish, which is an agglutinative language; grammatical inspiration also comes from Latin and Greek. The phonology is also based on Finnish, and to a lesser extent Latin, Italian and Spanish. Some interesting phonological rules are that no consonant cluster can begin or end a syllable (with one exception, the dual dative ending -nt), a word may not end in a non-dental consonant, and voiced stops must be preceded by sonorants. The first two of these phonotactic rules also exist in Finnish.

The most striking feature of Quenya is that it is a highly agglutinating language, meaning that multiple affixes are often added to words to express grammatical function. It is possible for one Quenya word to have the same meaning as an entire English sentence. For example, one could say "They have seen it." in Quenya in a single word, namely ''Ecénientes''.

Tolkien wrote much more material about Quenya and his other languages than he published in his lifetime. In fact, Tolkien, a professor of linguistics, originally invented Middle-earth and its inhabitants as a means of imposing upon his artificial languages a history of war, migration and suffering. The famous novels might be considered incidental to his further and more passionately developed linguistic hobby. The journals ''Vinyar Tengwar'' and ''Parma Eldalamberon'' are devoted to editing and publishing Tolkien's linguistic papers.

Quenya is one of many constructed languages introduced over the years by science fiction and fantasy writers, some others being Klingon, Newspeak, Nadsat, the Ascian language and Lapine.

In early [[Tolkien]]'s writings (see: ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]''), this language was called '''Qenya''' (although pronounced the same as ''Quenya''), and it underwent countless revisions in both grammar and vocabulary before it reached the form found in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' and ''[[The Silmarillion]]''. The term Qenya is now used to distinguish between old Qenya and the new Quenya. However, the fluid nature of Quenya (or Qenya, for that matter) makes such a distinction a highly disputed one.

==See also==
*[[Languages]] of [[Middle-earth]]
*''[[The Shibboleth of Fëanor]]''
*[[Sindarin]]
*[[Tengwar]]
*[[Sarati]]

== External links ==
* [http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ Ardalambion: The Tongues of Arda, Lessons, etc.]
**[http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/qcourse.htm Quenya Course]
**[http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/wordlists.htm Wordlists] — the best and most up-to-date wordlists available online. ([http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/quen-eng.htm in html])
*[http://www.elvish.org/VT Vinyar Tengwar]
*[http://www.eldalamberon.com/ Parma Eldalamberon]
* [http://www.sci.fi/~alboin/finn_que.htm Are High Elves Finno-Ugric?]
* [http://www.sci.fi/~alboin/finnquelinks.htm Quenya's relation to Finnish]
*[http://www.geocities.com/aikanaro42/dictionary English-Quenya Dictionary]
*[http://www.lorem-ipsum.info/_quenya Generator for Quenya typographical filler text]

{{references}}
[[Category:Quenya| ]]
[[Category:Quenya adjectives]]
[[Category:Quenya nouns]]
[[de:Quenya]]
[[fi:Quenya]]
[[fr:encyclo/langues/quenya]]

Faithful

2010-06-19T14:56:09Z

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{{organization
| image=[[Image:Ted Nasmith - The Ships of the Faithful.jpg|300px]]
| name=The Faithful
| othernames=[[Elendili]], [[Nimruzîrim]], [[Elf-friends]]
| founder=
| founded=c. [[Second Age 2221|S.A. 2221]]
| race=[[Númenóreans]]
| members=[[Amandil (Lord of Andúnië)|Amandil]], [[Tar-Palantir]], [[Elendil]]
| location=[[Númenor]]
| achievements=Survived the [[Downfall of Númenor]]
| disbanded=
| destroyed=
|}}
The '''Faithful''' were those among the [[Númenóreans]] who turned aside from the policies of the later [[Kings of Númenor]] and remained loyal to the will of the [[Valar]]. They also had the titles '''[[Elendili]]''' in [[Quenya]] and '''[[Nimruzîrim]]''' in [[Adûnaic]], both terms meaning "[[Elf-friends]]". The opposing party was called the [[King's Men]]; it was composed of the majority of the people of [[Númenor]] in the later part of the [[Second Age]], while the Faithful were a far smaller and increasingly oppressed group. They lived mostly on the west side of Númenor until [[Ar-Gimilzôr]] the twenty-third King commanded them to move eastwards near [[Rómenna]].

==History==
===Early History===
The Faithful became a party distinct from the King's Men during the reign of [[Tar-Ancalimon]] the fourteenth King. They maintained the use of the [[Elven tongues]] and welcomed the [[Elves]] of [[Tol Eressëa]] to their land, in spite of the growing hostility of the King's Men. The Faithful also respected and loved the Valar still, and made no attempt to speak against the [[Ban of the Valar|Ban]] that the Valar had set against the Númenóreans sailing into [[Aman|the West]]. Nevertheless, they "did not escape the affliction of their people" regarding the fear of Death that the [[Shadow]] had brought upon all the Númenóreans, and they were troubled by the fate of [[Men]]. Unlike the King's Men, though, the Faithful had chosen to believe the words of the [[messengers of the Valar]] and [[Estel (philosophical concept)|trust]] that death, called the [[Gift of Men]] by the Elves, was not an evil. It was in this choice that they differed most from the majority of the people of Númenor.

The Faithful looked to the [[Lords of Andúnië|Lords of Andúnië]] for guidance in later days. These Lords, who were held in high esteem by all the Númenóreans, kept their connection with the Faithful a secret for a long time, because they wished to use their power in the [[Council of the Sceptre|King's Council]] to steer the Kings to wiser courses of action. Nevertheless, the rulers of the isle became increasingly antagonistic to all those who were recognized to be members of the minority party.

Like the King's Men, the Faithful also made settlements in [[Middle-earth]], most notably [[Pelargir]], but unlike them the Faithful did not seek to subjugate the natives of the [[Great Lands]]. Because of the coldness between the two parties, the Faithful built Pelargir far away from the colonies of the King's Men, which were a great distance to the south. The Faithful also sailed northwards to [[Lindon]] to converse with the Elves there.

===Treatment by the Later Kings of Númenor===
The Kings of Númenor looked upon the Faithful and their continuing friendship with the Elves with increasing suspicion; they banned the use of the [[Eldarin]] tongues and eventually moved the Elf-friends to the east of the island so that they could no longer communicate with these "spies of the [[Valar]]", their name for the Eressëan Elves. The Kings even kept them under surveillance to make sure they did nothing subversive. The situation of the Faithful only became more bearable when [[Tar-Palantir]], the son of Ar-Gimilzôr who was the greatest enemy of the Elf-friends, attempted to repent of the past actions of the Kings. He treated the Faithful kindly and allowed them to speak the Elven tongues again. But Tar-Palantir's rule was only a minor break in what would become an increasingly cruel policy of oppression, for his nephew seized the [[Sceptre]] after his death and proclaimed himself King [[Ar-Pharazôn]].

Ar-Pharazôn did not immediately begin harassing the Faithful after he was secure in power; his attention was chiefly on [[Sauron]], who had begun to assail the settlements of the Númenóreans with great strength. Angered by this, Ar-Pharazôn prepared a great naval force and sailed to Middle-earth with the intention of defeating the [[Maia]]. When he arrived, the servants of Sauron fled in terror from his host, and Sauron himself surrendered to Ar-Pharazôn; seeing that he could not defeat the Númenóreans by arms, he decided to corrupt them until they destroyed themselves. The King decided to take Sauron to Númenor as a hostage, and it was then that the worst of the Faithful's misfortunes befell them.

It was not long before Sauron had used his power to turn the hearts of most of the Númenóreans towards his counsels, and he told them that by using human sacrifices to worship [[Melkor]], they could escape death. Naturally, "it was most often from among the Faithful" that the Númenóreans chose their victims for these sacrifices. They never said that they killed the Faithful for not worshiping Melkor, however; instead the Númenóreans accused them of plotting against the King and the rest of the people of the land.

===Escape from the Downfall of Númenor ===
This cruel treatment lasted several decades until Ar-Pharazôn grew old and was in great fear of the approaching end of his life. Therefore he listened to Sauron's suggestion that he gather a massive [[Great Armament|Armament]] and sail to [[Aman]], land of the Valar, to claim everlasting life. When [[Amandil (Lord of Andúnië)|Amandil]] the last Lord of [[Andúnië]] heard this news, he knew that the Númenóreans would surely come to ruinous defeat in war against the Valar, and so he decided to make a preemptive voyage into the West to beg them for mercy and deliverance from Sauron. Before he left, he advised his son [[Elendil]] to furnish nine ships and anchor them off the east coast of Númenor and wait for what would happen next. After he sailed west, Amandil was never heard from again, but by taking his advice, Elendil and his sons survived the disastrous [[Downfall of Númenor]] that was the result of Ar-Pharazôn's war. A mighty wind took their ships eastward and swept them onto the shores of Middle-earth. There they set up the realms of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]]. These kingdoms were populated by both the descendants of the Faithful and indigenous Men of Middle-earth.

==References==

*[[J.R.R. Tolkien]], ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', "[[Appendix A]]"
*[[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', "[[Akallabêth]]"
*[[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Christopher Tolkien]] (ed.), ''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', "[[The Line of Elros: Kings of Númenor]]"

[[Category:Faithful of Númenor| ]]

Forums:Quenya/Sindarin word article format

2010-06-19T14:48:53Z

Earendilyon: Undo revision 109887 by 80.85.144.183 (Talk)

<div style="background: #eee; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 5px">'''[[Main Page|Tolkien Gateway]] > [[Forum:Council|Council]] > {{PAGENAME}}'''</div> [[Category:Council]]



Here I have a specific question, but anyone else can post questions concerning the formatting of the articles on [[Sindarin]]/[[Quenya]] words. My question is this: we really need a standard title for the list of examples and instances for each word. We have "''Examples and Instances''", "''Examples''", "''Examples and Instances of Use''", and probably others. Which would be best, or if you have another idea for a title? It would be nice if all the articles on language words were thorough and standardized. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 13:31, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

Index:Games by type

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== PC ==
* [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)]]
* [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]]
* [[The Two Towers (MUD)]]
* [[EA's The Return of the King]]
* [[The Lord of the Rings Online]]
** [[The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar]] - Volume I
** [[The Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria]] - Volume II
** [[The Lord of the Rings Online: Siege of Mirkwood]] - Book IX of Volume II and Volume III
* [[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth]]
* [[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II]]
* [[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king]]
* [[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]
* [[The Lord of the Rings: Volume 1]]
* [[Midden-aarde MUD]]

== Xbox 360 ==
* [[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth]]
* [[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II]]
* [[The Lord of the Rings: The White Council]]
* [[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]
== Playstation 3 ==
*[[The Lord of the Rings: The White Council]] (Canceled)

== Wii ==

== Xbox ==
* [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]]
* [[EA's The Two Towers]]
* [[EA's The Return of the King]]
* [[EA's The Third Age]]

== Playstation 2 ==
* [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)]]
* [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]]
* [[EA's The Two Towers]]
* [[EA's The Return of the King]]
* [[The Third Age]]

== GameCube ==
* [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)]])
* [[EA's The Two Towers]]
* [[EA's The Return of the King]]
* [[The Third Age]]
== Playstation ==

== Super Nintendo==
* [[The Lord of the Rings: Volume 1]]

== Nintendo ==

== Gameboy Micro ==

== PSP ==
* [[The Lord of the Rings: Tactics]]

== Nintendo DS ==
* [[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]

== Gameboy Advance ==
*[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]]
* [[EA's The Two Towers]]

== Gameboy ==

== Commodore 64 ==
* [[J.R.R. Tolkien's War in Middle-Earth (1988 video game)]]
* The Fellowship Of The Ring (1990)

== Board Games ==
* The Lord of the Rings Monopoly
* The Lord of the Rings Chess
* The Lord of the Rings Backgammon
* The Lord of the Rings Risk
* [[Lord of the Rings (board game)]]
* Lord of the Rings Trivia
* The Hobbit
* War of the Ring
** War of the Ring: Battles of the Third Age expansion
* Lord of the Rings: The Confrontation (by Reiner Knizia)

== Card Games ==
* [[Middle-earth Collectible Card Game]]
* [[The Lord of the Rings Trading Card Game]]
* The Lord of the Rings Online TCG

== Role Playing ==
* The Lord of the Rings RPG (Decipher)
* [[Middle-earth Role Playing]] ([[Iron Crown Enterprises]])

[[Category:games|Type]]

Elros Tar-Minyatur

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#REDIRECT [[Elros]]

The Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Game

2010-06-19T14:23:55Z

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{{disambig-more|The Lord of the Rings|[[The Lord of the Rings (disambiguation)]]}}
'''''The Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Game''''' (LOTRRPG), released by [[Decipher Inc.]] in 2002, is a [[role-playing game]] set in the [[Middle-earth]]. The game is set in the years between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', but may be run at any time from the [[First Age|First]] to [[Fourth Age]] and contains many examples of how to do so. Sourcebooks cover the events of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' and [[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings film trilogy|film trilogy adaptation]].

The system for LOTRRPG is called ''CODA''. In 2003, LOTRRPG won the [[Origins Award]] for ''Best Roleplaying Game 2002''.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.originsgamefair.com/awards/2002/list-of-winners| title=Origins Award Winners (2002) |publisher=Academy of Adventure Gaming Arts & Design|accessdate=2007-10-02}}</ref>

The game was the third roleplaying game licensed by [[Tolkien Enterprises]], the others being ''[[Middle-earth Role Playing]]'' and its simplified sibling the ''[[Lord of the Rings Adventure Game]]'', both from [[Iron Crown Enterprises]].

==Races==
The character races available in the ''Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Game'' are:
*[[Dwarves]] (Khazad): Short, stocky bearded folk, strong and hardy, able to endure pain, fatigue and suffering better than other races. Upon reaching maturity they appear old in a fashion that belies their hardiness. They often live in subterranean kingdoms, and have a great love of craftworks, especially things made of gold, silver, and ''[[mithril]]''.
*[[Elves]] (Eldar): The oldest and wisest of races of Middle-earth, they are immortal, noble, and fair. Their kind have far clearer sight and perception than Men, and they're nimble. They are naturally aware of many things that are hidden from the Younger Children. They are divided into a number of particular kinds, primarily based on their course through elven history. The [[Noldor]] or High Elves are those that heeded the call of the [[Vala (Middle-earth)|Valar]] and traveled across the sea, most of them later rebelling and following [[Fëanor]] back to [[Middle-earth]] in pursuit of the [[Silmaril]]s. They are wise in Lore and Smithcraft, and created many [[Rings of Power]]. The [[Sindar]] or Grey Elves are those that heard the call, but stopped and chose to stay in [[Beleriand]]. These are the more numerous kind of elf in the Third Age, and have great love of, and talent with, music and song. The [[Silvan Elves]] or Wood Elves are those that ceased their journey to the West before crossing the [[Misty Mountains]]. During the Third age, they live in woodland realms such as [[Lothlórien]] or caverns in the mountains of [[Mirkwood]]. They have facility with wilderness skills.
*[[Hobbits]]: The signature race of Tolkien, these diminutive people are a distant relation to men. They are good-natured, hospitable and easy going folk, two to four feet in height with hair covered feet. There are three major strains of Hobbits: [[Fallohides]], taller, slimmer, fairer, and more uncommon than their fellows, they often have more facility with language, song, and craft, and have an unusual adventurous streak. [[Harfoots]] are the most numerous kind, and tend to be shorter and browner than others. They are nimble with crafts, more friendly with Dwarves, and tend to stick to the custom of living in holes and tunnels. The [[Stoors]] are broader and sturdier and most numerous in [[Shire (Middle-earth)#Buckland|Buckland]]. These are the only Hobbits who know anything about boating, swimming and fishing.
*[[Men]]: The most familiar character race, these still come in several varieties available for player characters. [[Dúnedain]] are descendants of the [[Númenóreans|Númenórean]]s, themselves descendant of [[Elros|Elros Tar-Minyatur]], twin brother of [[Elrond|Elrond Halfelven]]. The [[Men of Twilight]], including the [[Rohan#People|Rohirrim]], the [[Beornings]], [[Dunlendings]] and the majority of [[Gondor]]ians (due to centuries of interbreeding), are men who did not go to [[Númenor]] but remained in Middle-earth. These are typical Men. The [[Men of Darkness]] are the [[Easterlings]], the [[Haradrim]] (Southrons), and [[Variag (Middle-earth)|Variags]] of [[Khand (Middle-earth)|Khand]], most of whom have lived under the sway of [[Sauron]]. They are shorter, broader, darker of hair and eye, and duskier. Finally, there are Wild Men, who are short and squat and live rudely in the wild, though they carry their own nobility and powers. These include the [[Drúedain]] (Woses) who live in the forest of [[Anórien]] and the [[Lossoth]] (Snowmen of Forochel) who live in the [[Northern Waste]].

==Classes==
The character classes available in the ''Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Adventure Game'' are:
* [[Barbarian]]: A warrior of the wilds who may lack some of the refined skills and weapons of other fighting men, but who make up for it with woodcraftiness and ferocity. Many Dunlendings, Drúedain, and Easterlings belong to this order.

* [[Craftsman]]: A person skilled in the arts of making, able to craft items both useful and wondrous, or who serves others in some ordinary capacity. Sam Gamgee, Barliman Butterbur, many Dwarves, and the Noldorin jewelsmiths are all craftsmen.

* [[Loremaster]]: One wise in the lore of Middle-earth and who, though not a true caster of spells, can use some minor or subtle magics. Denethor, Celeborn, and many Elves are loremasters.

* [[Magician]]: One who works magic and casts spells based on learned lore and wisdom, but who is not nearly as powerful as a wizard.

* [[Mariner]]: A sailor, one who knows how to work and helm ships great and small over the wide seas and on the Great River. Coastal Gondorians and the Corsairs of Umbar count many mariners among their number.

* [[Minstrel]]: A singer of songs, teller of tales, and a chronicler of brave and noble deeds. With his words and music, he can inspire others.

* [[Noble]]: A person who, due to birth, wealth, accomplishment, or the like, is regarded as of high rank in society, entitled to deference and respect from other folk. Boromir, Denethor, Aragorn, Celeborn, and even Frodo belong, at least in part, to this order.

* [[Rogue]]: A person who lives and works with his wits and deft hands, often at questionable or outlawed pursuits. He may be a spy for the Enemy, a professional treasure seeker, or simply one who prefers subtlety and guile to warfare and bloodshed. Bilbo, during his brief adventure with Thorin and company, became a member of this order. Gríma Wormtongue is also a rogue.

* [[Warrior]]: People, such as guardsmen, soldiers, and archers, who are trained to fight with weapons. This is the most common order depicted in ''The Lord of the Rings'', and it may likely be so in most chronicles as well. It includes Aragorn, Boromir, Éomer, Éowyn, most Rohirrim, Beregond, Prince Imrahil, and eventually, Merry and Pippin.

== Publications ==
=== Books ===
*[[2002]]: [[The Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Game - Core Book]]
*[[2003]]: [[Fell Beasts and Wondrous Magic]]
*[[2003]]: [[The Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Game: Moria|Moria]]
*[[2003]]: [[The Fellowship of the Ring Sourcebook]]
*[[2003]]: [[The Two Towers Sourcebook]]
*[[2004]]: Fields of Battle: The Guide to Barbarians & Warriors
*[[2005]]: [[The Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Game: Isengard|Isengard]]
*[[2005]]: [[Paths of the Wise: The Guide to Magicians and Loremasters]]
*[[2005]]: [[Helm's Deep (sourcebook)|Helm's Deep]]

A ''Return of the King Sourcebook'' was planned but never released.

=== Adventure Games ===
* [[The Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Adventure Game]]
* [[The Two Towers Roleplaying Adventure Game]]

=== Accessories ===
*(2002) [[Maps of Middle-earth|Maps of Middle-earth: The Lands of Middle-earth]]
*(2002) Hero's Journal
*(2003) [[Maps of Middle-earth: Cities and Strongholds]]
*(2003) Narrator's Screen

== External links ==
*[http://www.geocities.com/gandalfofborg25/downloads.html#LOTR_DOWNLOADS Fan Content]
*[http://www.halloffire.org/ Hall of Fire: Fan-based Webzine]

[[Category:Role playing games]]

Tolkien Gateway:Sandbox

2010-06-19T14:15:19Z

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This page is here to for your convenience to adjusting to a wiki. Please edit this page as much as you want instead of "testing" anywhere else.
----
:'''See also: [[Help: Editing]]'''
----
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]

Beyond Bree

2010-06-19T14:12:52Z

Earendilyon: Undo revision 109876 by 193.86.200.25 (Talk)

[[Image:Beyond Bree logo.png|''Beyond Bree'' logotype|thumb]]

'''''Beyond Bree''''' is a monthly publication of the [[Tolkien Special Interest Group of American Mensa]].

==Issues==

*[[:CATEGORY:Beyond Bree issues|Beyond Bree issues]]

== From their website==

A typical issue is 12 pages long, contains short articles on J.R.R. Tolkien and his works; reviews of books, games, films, events by, about, or inspired by J.R.R. Tolkien and his works;reviews of books, games, films, events by, about, or inspired by J.R.R. Tolkien and his works, and general fantasy which might be of interest to the Tolkien fan. Also readers' views; fan publications, news, art, occasional poetry and puzzles. We seldom publish fiction. Since we are too widely scattered to meet in person, Beyond Bree carries news of conventions and gatherings where the Tolkien fan might find others of similar interests. And, if readers have questions about Tolkien or his works, we try to answer them.

==External links==
* [http://www.cep.unt.edu/bree.html Official website]

[[Category:Beyond Bree]]
[[CATEGORY:Publications by title]]
[[fi:Beyond Bree]]

Forums:Error on main page

2010-06-19T14:09:40Z

Earendilyon: Undo revision 109871 by 91.121.28.153 (Talk)

<div style="background: #eee; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 5px">'''[[Main Page|Tolkien Gateway]] > [[Forum:Council|Council]] > {{PAGENAME}}'''</div> [[Category:Council]]


If you scroll down on the main page today, it says that it's Aragorn's birthday today, in the year T.A. 2971. He was really born in T.A. 2931. I don't know how to fix this, so someone should.

:Just corrected it. The place to go to is [[March 1]], and seeing that the link did work, I probably typoed. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 14:54, 1 March 2008 (EST)

The Tolkien Reader

2010-06-19T14:08:45Z

Earendilyon: Undo revision 109874 by 200.131.11.2 (Talk)

'''''The Tolkien Reader''''' (September [[1966]]) is an anthology of works by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], published only in the United States, by [[Houghton Mifflin]].

==Contents==
*Publisher's Note
*Tolkien's Magic Ring, by [[Peter S. Beagle]]
*[[The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhthelm's Son]]
*[[Ofermod]]
*''[[Tree and Leaf]]''
**[[On Fairy-Stories]]
**[[Leaf by Niggle]]
*[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]
*[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]

[[CATEGORY:Reference books|Tolkien Reader]]
[[Category:Books by J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien Reader]]
[[CATEGORY:Publications by title|Tolkien Reader]]

Forums:Gondolinic Runes font?

2010-06-19T14:08:09Z

Earendilyon: Undo revision 109870 by 113.34.46.234 (Talk)

<div style="background: #eee; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 5px">'''[[Main Page|Tolkien Gateway]] > [[Forum:Council|Council]] > {{PAGENAME}}'''</div> [[Category:Council]]


Does anyone have the Gondolinic Runes font by Ronald Kyrmse? {{unsigned|190.141.109.141}}

:Now that his site is offline, I can't find it either online. I still have it on my PC, though. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:42, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

The Shire

2010-06-19T14:06:28Z

Earendilyon:

{{rewrite}}
{{sources}}
{{kingdom
| image = [[Image:fotr0066.jpg|300px]]
| name = The Shire
| meaning =
| type = Thainship
| hidep=yes
| headofstate = [[Kings of Arnor|King of Arnor]] (de jure), [[Thain]], [[Mayor of Michel Delving]]
| executive = [[Shirriffs]]
| legislative =
| judicial =
| capital = [[Michel Delving]] (de facto)
| size = 18,000 square miles
| language = [[Hobbitish]]
| location = Central [[Eriador]]
| populace= [[Hobbits]]
| currency =
| religious =
| holiday =
| anthem =
| formed = The westward migration of Hobbits led by [[Marcho]] and [[Blanco]]
| established = [[Third Age 1601|T.A. 1601]]
| reorganized = [[Fourth Age 32]]
| fragmented =
| dissolved =
| restored =
}}
'''The Shire''' is the region that is occupied by [[Hobbits]]. It is located in the north-west of Middle-earth, in the 'continent' of [[Eriador]] and the Kingdom of [[Arnor]]. Its name in [[Westron]] was '''[[Sûza]]''' "Shire" or '''Sûza-t''' "The Shire".
==Geography==
The Shire measured 40 leagues (193 km, 120 [[Númenóreans|Númenórean]] miles) from the Far Downs in the west to the Brandywine Bridge in the east, and 50 leagues (241 km, 150 miles) from the northern moors to the marshes in the south. All in all, the Shire had an area of 18,000 square miles (47,000 km²). In order for this figure to be accurate it must be assumed that the Shire was roughly rectangular in shape.

The Brandywine ([[Baranduin]]) river bounds the Shire from the east. (Hobbits also live in ''Buckland'', which lies as a narrow slice between the river and [[The Hedge]] but was not formally recognised as part of The Shire until after the [[War of the Ring]]) From the north and the west The Shire has no topographical borders, but rather is bounded by the ancient south and east roads, and by vague geographical features such as the [[Tower Hills]].

The Shire is described as a small but beautiful and fruitful land, beloved by its inhabitants. The Hobbits had an extensive agricultural system in the Shire, but did not proceed with industrialization. Various supplies could be found in the Shire, including cereals, fruit, wood and [[pipe-weed]] (a favourite treat of Hobbits).

The Shire was quite densely populated in parts with many villages and a few towns, but it still was open enough to allow for wide forested areas and marshes.

==History==
The Shire was a fertile and well-tilled part of [[Arnor]], but deserted during the waning days of the Kingdom when it was known as the splinter-realm of [[Arthedain]]; where the Shire was, it had been the King's hunting grounds. The [[Hobbits]] (who lived in [[Dunland]] and parts of depopulated [[Cardolan]] and [[Rhudaur]]) got official permission from King [[Argeleb II]] at Norbury ([[Fornost]]) to settle the lands. This was finally done in [[Third Age 1601]] (Year 1 in Shire Reckoning) by Hobbits from [[Bree]], led by the brothers [[Marcho]] and [[Blanco]].

[[Image:Ted Nasmith - One Morning Long Ago.jpg|thumb|left|250px|''One Morning Long Ago'' by [[Ted Nasmith]].]]
By 30 years later, almost all of the Hobbits of Middle-earth could be found in the Shire, which they divided in 4 [[farthings]], themselves occupied by villages and folklands.

The Hobbits considered themselves as subjects of the King, and sent some support troops to the great battles Arnor fought against [[Angmar]]. After the fall of Arnor, the Shire remained a minor but independent political unit and the title of [[Thain]] was established to fill the absence of the [[Kings of Arthedain|King]].

Its small size, relative lack of importance, and brave and resilient Hobbit population made it too modest an objective for conquest. More important was that the Shire was guarded and protected by the [[Dúnedain]] [[Rangers of the North]] (and [[Gandalf]]), who watched the borders and kept out intruders. The only strangers to enter the Shire were the [[Dwarves]] traveling on the [[Great East Road]] that ran through the Shire to and from their mines in the [[Blue Mountains]], and the occasional [[Elves]] on their way to the [[Grey Havens]].

However Shire faced its adversities since it was inside the range of the [[Great Plague]] of [[Third Age 1636]] and the [[Battle of Greenfields]] ([[Third Age 2747]]) and of course the [[Long Winter]] ([[Third Age 2758]]) soon followed by the [[Days of Dearth]] ([[Third Age 2760]]) and the [[Fell Winter]] ([[Third Age 2911]]). In [[Third Age 2340]] the [[Oldbucks]] of the [[Marish]] because of overpopulation, crossed the [[Brandywine]] and founded [[Buckland]].

During the [[War of the Ring]] the Shire was first visited by the Nine [[Ringwraiths]] and then, while the Rangers were off to the War, the Shire was defenseless. It was captured by [[Saruman]] and [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]] who lead evil [[Men]]. It was liberated with the help of [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]], [[Sam Gamgee|Sam]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]] and [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] after the end of the War through their victory at the [[Battle of Bywater]].

But the damage which Saruman caused by forced industrialization was undone by the Hobbits' efforts. The Shire was restored with soil from [[Lothlórien]], given to Sam by [[Galadriel]]. [[Third Age 3021]] was considered to be the most productive and prosperous year in their history.

With [[Aragorn]]'s return as the King of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], the Shire became in [[Fourth Age 17]] a Free Land, protected enclave inside the [[Reunited Kingdom]]. He is known to have issued an order that forbade the entrance of full-sized [[Men]] into the Shire. In [[Fourth Age 32]] King Aragorn granted Buckland officially as a part of the Shire named [[Eastmarch]], and also extended the land westwards to [[Emyn Beraid]]; this land was named [[Westmarch]].

==Administration==
Initially, The Shire was a part of Arthedain. The Hobbits considered themselves as subjects of the King and only after the fall of Arnor, the Shire became an independent political unit led by the '''[[Thain]]''' from ''[[Tuckborough]]'' who was the head of the important [[Took Family|Took clan]]. While nominally the Thain ruled over the four [[Farthings]], in practice authority was so decentralized that the title was seen as more of a formality and ceremonial.

Official of the Shire was the '''[[Mayor of Michel Delving|Mayor]]''' of [[Michel Delving]] in the [[White Downs]] (by extension seen as the [[Mayor of the Shire]]). The Mayor's chief duties were serving as postmaster of the Shire's [[Messenger Service]], charging the [[Watch]] and presiding at fairs

Finally, the '''[[Master of Buckland]]''' at ''[[Bucklebury]]'' controlled [[Buckland]].
[[Image:fotr0059.jpg|300px|left|thumb|The Shire in [[Peter Jackson's The Fellowship of the Ring]].]]
The sole law enforcement officials in the Shire were the [[Shirriffs]]. Their job was to protect the Shire from trespassers more than anything. There were three in each Farthing, and were distinguished from "civilians" by a feather worn in their caps. The [[Bounders]] were the land's border-guard, charged with turning back unwanted people or beasts, and their number varied according to need.

The Shire was originally divided in four Farthings (''[[Northfarthing]]'', ''[[Southfarthing]]'', ''[[Eastfarthing]]'', and ''[[Westfarthing]]''), but [[Buckland]] and later the [[Westmarch]] were added to it. Within the Farthings there are some smaller, unofficial divisions such as family lands: the [[Took Family|Tooks]] nearly all live in or near [[Tuckborough]] in [[Tookland]], for instance. In many cases a Hobbit's last name indicates where their family came from: [[Samwise Gamgee]]'s last name derives from ''[[Gamwich]]'', where the family originated. Outside the Farthings, Buckland itself was named for the [[Oldbucks]] (later [[Brandybuck Family|Brandybucks]]). See further ''[[Regions of the Shire]]''.

==Inspiration==
{{quote|Though a Tolkien by name, I am a Suffield by tastes, talents, and upbringing, and '''any comer of that county [Worcestershire] (however fair or squalid) is in an indefinable way 'home' to me, as no other part of the world is.'''|[[Letter 44]]}}
On Tolkien's maps, the Shire is located at about the same position as England is on modern European maps and has been cited as an example of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_England#Deep_England Deep England] ideology (of course, England being an island while Shire is inside the continent). Throughout the narrative, Tolkien also implies numerous points of similarity between the two, such as weather, agriculture and dialect. One can also see England as Tolkien's source of inspiration for the Shire in its very name.

According to [[Paula Marmor]], the hobbit brothers [[Marcho]] and [[Blanco]] names are related to horses, parallel to [[Wikipedia:Hengest|Hengest]] and [[Wikipedia:Horsa|Horsa]], legendary leaders who brought the Saxons to Britain. Hengest was the founder of [[Wikipedia:Kent|Kent]] whose geography is similar to the Shire (North Downs above, hills to the west, water to the east and marshes to the southeast)<ref>''[[An Introduction to Elvish]]'', An etymological excursion among the Shire Folk</ref>.

The industrialization of the Shire was based on Tolkien's witnessing of the extension of the Industrial Revolution to rural Warwickshire during his youth, and especially the deleterious consequences thereof. The rebellion of the hobbits and the restoration of the pre-industrial Shire may be interpreted as a prescription of voluntary simplicity as a remedy to the problems of modern society.

==See also==
*[[:Category:Images of the Shire|Images of the Shire]]
*[[Thain|Thains of the Shire]]

{{references}}

[[Category:Shire]]
[[Category:Eriador]]
[[Category:Realms]]

[[de:Auenland]]
[[fr:encyclo:geographie:regions:eriador:comte]]
[[fi:Kontu]]

The Shire

2010-06-19T14:03:22Z

Earendilyon: Undo revision 109855 by 118.97.48.185 (Talk)

Dominic Monaghan

2010-06-19T13:59:37Z

Earendilyon: Undo revision 109858 by 193.171.77.1 (Talk)

{{actor
| image=[[Image:Dominic Monaghan.jpg|250px|Dominic Monaghan]]
| name=Dominic Monaghan
| lifetime=[[December 8]], [[1976]]
| played=[[Meriadoc Brandybuck]]
| film=[[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]]
| played2=
| film2=
| imdb=[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0597480/ IMDb Profile]
|}}
English actor '''Dominic Monaghan''' (born 1976 in Berlin, Germany) played [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Meriadoc "Merry" Brandybuck]] in [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]] trilogy. He is also the narrator of [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379473/ Ringers: Lord of the Fans], a documentary about the influence of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] in popular culture.

==Quotes==
{{quote|I won't miss having to stand for two hours at 4:30 a.m. and have freezing cold glue applied to my feet. I won't miss two-hour drives to work or long, long, long days sitting in my trailer waiting...waiting...waiting. I won't miss one day off a week. I won't miss glue in my ears. But I would do it all again tomorrow.|Dominic Monaghan, E! Online Force of the Hobbit}}
{{quote|We work so well with [Peter Jackson] because Pete understands Hobbits so well. Because he is a Hobbit. He has so many Hobbit qualities to him.|Dominic Monaghan}}
{{quote|When the story begins, Merry is in the prime of life, he's having fun and he's well liked. He's really just one of the lads. Then, as the journey unfolds, he finds himself in situations where he has to look after people or make decisions that a hobbit would never normally have to make.|Dominic Monaghan, [[The Lord of the Rings Official Movie Guide]]}}

==Awards==
* [[2002]] - '''[http://www.cinemaclips.com/PFCS.htm PFCS Award]''', Best Acting Ensemble, ''[[Peter Jackson's The Fellowship of the Ring]]''
* [[2003]] - '''[http://ofcs.rottentomatoes.com/ OFCS Award]''', Best Ensemble, ''[[Peter Jackson's The Two Towers]]''
* 2003 - '''PFCS Award''', Best Acting Ensemble, ''Peter Jackson's The Two Towers''
* [[2004]] - '''[http://www.bfca.org/ Critics' Choice Award]''', Best Acting Ensemble, ''[[Peter Jackson's The Return of the King]]''
* 2004 - '''[http://www.nbrmp.org/ NBR Award]''', Best Acting by an Ensemble, ''Peter Jackson's The Return of the King''
* 2004 - '''[http://www.sagawards.org/ SAG Award]''', Outstanding Performance by a Cast in a Motion Picture, ''Peter Jackson's The Return of the King''

== External Links ==
* [http://dommonghan.org/ The Dominic Monaghan Resource]
* [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0597480/ IMDb Profile]
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Monaghan Wikipedia Profile]

[[Category:Actors and actresses|Monaghan, Dominic]]
[[Category:Narrators|Monaghan, Dominic]]
[[de:Dominic Monaghan]]
[[fi:Dominic Monaghan]]

Talk:In My Grandfather's Footsteps

2010-06-10T18:05:23Z

Earendilyon: New page: I wonder whether the link to the "Discussion of the article on Tolkien Collector's Guide" adds anything of value to this article. ~ ~~~~

I wonder whether the link to the "Discussion of the article on Tolkien Collector's Guide" adds anything of value to this article. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 18:05, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Ruth Lacon

2010-06-10T17:56:49Z

Earendilyon: Split off discussion of pseudonyms

==Merge==
What's her birth name and what's the pseudonym? Birth name should be main article, imo. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}}

:Interesting, I had no idea that they're the same person. I made a search on google, and could only find some discussions on forums that refer to this fact/claim. Do we have any other sources? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:11, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

::Ruth Lacon is her name, Elizabeth Currie is the pseudonym she uses for writing. It's an open secret amongst active [[Tolkien Society]] members.

::As for a source I'll have to see if I can find one - I think it came up in ''[[Amon Hen (journal)|Amon Hen]]'' or ''[[Mallorn (journal)|Mallorn]]'' some years ago. Without the source I can tell you that this is categorically true, however. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:34, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

:::OK, will this do? This is two a letter to the then editor of ''[[Mallorn (journal)|Mallorn]]'', Len Sanford, with his response.

{{quote|Sir,<br/>Please find enclosed for your attention a copy of a letter sent to [[Andrew Butler]] on 20/03/2006, after I had received legal advice on the editorial of [[Amon Hen 198|Amon Hen no.198]] and related matters. As the editors of the second offical publication of The Tolkien Society, I do think you should be made aware of this situation in case any similar requests to print statements breaching confidence should be made to you. If any such breach of confidence or other unwarranted and insulting material regarding myself and Mr Alex Lewis appears in ''Mallorn'', I will be exceedingly angry. This situation needs to be resolved for the good of the Society rather than made worse.<br/>'''Ruth Lacon'''|[[Mallorn 44]], Letters}}

:::And a response:

{{quote|Miss Lacon is referring to the confidential information that she and Alex Lewis are a couple (made public at [[Oxonmoot 2003]] in the form of photographs of their Rivendell style bedchamber) and that she and author Elizabeth Currie are the same person (made public at [[Oxonmoot 2005]]). This quite accidentally became an issue when Ruth heavily praised Ms Currie's (ie, her own) book in [[Amon Hen 197|AH197]] and Alex powerfully endorsed Ruth's art show and art book in the same issue. But the information about the connections among these folk was unaccountably left out, by some freak editorial accident, no doubt.<br/>As Ruth quite correctly points out, it is for the good of the society that such things are cleared up, especially where artwork and books are being sold to members, and we are glad to have provided this platform to do so. Ed.|[[Mallorn 44]], Letters}}

:::The aforementioned editorial in ''Amon Hen 198'' states, amongst other things:

{{quote|I have been informed by several members that Elizabeth Currie is a pen-name of Ruth Lacon, who (for those who don't already know) is Alex Lewis' girlfriend. You might wish to bear this in mind when reading items like Alex' art exhibition report and Ruth's Tom Bombadil letter in the previous issue of ''Amon Hen''.|[[Amon Hen 198]], Editorial by [[Andrew Butler]]}}

:::Online, posts by various people [http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=518163&postcount=3 here], [http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=237864 here] and especially [http://www.tolkienforum.co.uk/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=1094 here] all corroborate this. I know these are anecdotal, but worth remembering. I personally thought this was all common knowledge, but apparently not! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

::::Well, I'm convinced by know! ;-) IMHO, we have enough sources for supporting the claim. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 05:12, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

==Pseudonyms==
I personally don't think we should give [[Elizabeth Currie]] a separate article: it should redirect to [[Ruth Lacon]] and the article can start off with "'''Ruth Lacon''', who also uses the pseudonym '''Elizabeth Currie''',...". after all, we don't have separate articles for "Elessar" and "[[Aragorn II]]" - why should one person get two articles? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:49, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

:A redirect would be an option, of course. The reason I created (or, kept) the tentative article on EC is because we have a category of pseudonyms. However, I created this cat myself, so if other people have opinions on the necessity or desirability of such a cat, I'm open to suggestions. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:44, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

:There are many characters and people that have more than one article. Maybe [[Elessar]] redirects to [[Aragorn II]], but there are articles on other psudonyms or titles he held. Such as [[Thorongil]], [[Strider (Aragorn)]], [[Wingfoot]] and [[Telcontar]]. --[[User:Pinkkeith|Pinkkeith]] 13:07, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

::Note: The cat "Pseudonyms" (as I envision it) only contains real-world persons. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:49, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

::Pinkkeith, I have been arguing against the doubling of articles in that manner for... however long I've been here (four years?). I think it's superfluous, confusing, and pointless, really; although, I have noticed recently that this trend has been beginning to change. Incidentally, [http://www.wikipedia.org Wikipedia] doesn't do this (this applies to everything, not just Tolkien-related article), and neither do [http://www.tuckborough.net/ Tuckborough] or [http://ardapedia.herr-der-ringe-film.de/index.php/Hauptseite Ardapedia]; [[Robert Foster]]'s excellent ''[[The Complete Guide to Middle-earth]]'' does not do this either. I think it's a bad habit we picked up from [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ The Encyclopedia of Arda]: in the early days we stole their entire content.

::Anyway, basically I'm pretty consistent on this in thinking that a single entity should have a single article. This issue pops up every now and again; I expect this isn't the last time it'll be debated! But, other names and titles is exactly what "(Other) Names and Titles" sections are for in articles.--{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:19, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

:::This is turning into a meta-discussion of the structure of TG! ;-)

:::What do you guys think about putting redirect pages in categories? Case in point, "Elizabeth Currie" would only consist of the code: <nowiki>"#REDIRECT [[Ruth Lacon]] [[CATEGORY:Pseudonyms]] [[CATEGORY:Authors|Currie, Elizabet]]"</nowiki>. Now, why would we want this? 1) We would skip doubling of articles 2) People merely ''surfing'' on TG (not ''searching'') would perhaps end up in categories that contain info they find interesting (e.g., I would find it interesting to get an overview of the different pseudonyms related to the world of Tolkien). --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:47, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

::::Personally, I think we could make a difference between mere titles of a person and a pseudonym under which somebody acted. For example, ''Elassar'' was a title of Aragorn's, but ''Thorongil'' was a pseudonym under which he fought many wars for Gondor. Elassar was, so to speak, just an addition to Aragorn's name, while Thorongil was an alter ego of him. The first I would redirect to the article [[Aragorn II]], while the second would get a seperate article (with, of course, clear reference to the chief article). Likewise for "real life" persons. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 17:56, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Pearl, and Sir Orfeo

2010-05-27T20:40:44Z

Earendilyon:

Two remarks:
* The text reads "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is a 1975 translation", which can't be true, 'cause Tolkien died in 1973.
* The paragraph on Sir Orfeo ends unfinished.
~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 08:01, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:In my opinion, there shouldn't be so information on this page on the three texts published in the collection. It's better to just link to separate pages, which can include more accurate info on the history and contents of the texts, and their various publications. In case you are short of time, Earendilyon, I'll add to my worklist (since I'm working quite a lot with the bibliography of TG). --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 08:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::That 1975 comment seems to be a relic from the original page, "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight", before it was merged with the other two.
::The separate stories are currently redirects to this page. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:39, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:::Good. Ederchil, will you be writing something for the separate stories or should I try to do something later? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 08:45, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

We now seem to miss an article on Tolkien's actual translation of ''Sir Gawain and the Green Knight'' as [[Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (translation)]] redirects to this page, while the 1925 edition is no translation, but a publication of the actual 14th century text. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 20:40, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Pearl, and Sir Orfeo

2010-05-24T08:01:51Z

Earendilyon: New page: Two remarks: * The text reads "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is a 1975 translation", which can't be true, 'cause Tolkien died in 1973. * The paragraph on Sir Orfeo ends unfinished. ~ ~~~...

Talk:Third Age 1248

2010-01-06T19:22:01Z

Earendilyon: Answer

Does anyone have a source for this "''with the aid of [[Vidugavia]]''" line? [[Appendix A]] says:

{{quote|Minalcar, son of Calmacil, was a man of great vigour, and in 1240 Narmacil, to rid himself of all cares, made him Regent of the realm. From that time onwards he governed Gondor in the name of the kings until he succeeded his father. His chief concern was with the Northmen.<br/><br/>These had increased greatly in the peace brought by the power of Gondor. The kings showed them favour, since they were the nearest in kin of lesser Men to the Dúnedain (being for the most part descendants of those peoples from whom the Edain of old had come); and they gave them wide lands beyond Anduin south of Greenwood the Great, to be a defence against men of the East. For in the past the attacks of the Easterlings had come mostly over the plain between the Inland Sea and the Ash Mountains.<br/><br/>In the days of Narmacil I their attacks began again, though at first with little force; but it was learned by the regent that the Northmen did not always remain true to Gondor, and some would join forces with the Easterlings, either out of greed for spoil, or in the furtherance of feuds among their princes. Minalcar therefore in 1248 led out a great force, and between Rhovanion and the Inland Sea he defeated a large army of the Easterlings and destroyed all their camps and settlements east of the Sea. He then took the name of Rómendacil.<br/><br/>On his return Rómendacil fortified the west shore of Anduin as far as the inflow of the Limlight, and forbade any stranger to pass down the River beyond the Emyn Muil. He it was that built the pillars of the Argonath at the entrance to Nen Hithoel. But since he needed men, and desired to strengthen the bond between Gondor and the Northmen, he took many of them into his service and gave to some high rank in his armies.<br/><br/>Rómendacil showed especial favour to Vidugavia, who had aided him in the war. He called himself King of Rhovanion, and was indeed the most powerful of the Northern princes, though his own realm lay between Greenwood and the River Celduin. In 1250 Rómendacil sent his son Valacar as an ambassador to dwell for a while with Vidugavia and make himself acquainted with the language, manners, and policies of the Northmen. But Valacar far exceeded his father's designs. He grew to love the Northern lands and people, and he married Vidumavi, daughter of Vidugavia. It was some years before he returned. From this marriage came later the war of the Kin-strife.|{{App|Gondor}}}}
Now, unless I'm missing something somewhere else, it doesn't actually say the Northmen helped. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:01, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

:I think one could see this line from your quote as being evidence for or the source of that statement: ''Rómendacil showed especial favour to Vidugavia, '''who had aided him in the war'''.'' ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 19:22, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Ëalar

2010-01-05T19:13:53Z

Earendilyon:

I replaced [[Balrogs]] as being an example of [[Eälar]] with [[Maiar]], since the Balrogs had after some time become fully incarnate and could no longer go without their body. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 20:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree. :)--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 20:55, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
:IIRC the phrase where Tolkien defines the ealar, mentions specifically Balrogs. Who can look it up? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 23:21, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

::{{HM|MR}}, p. 165, I think. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:21, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

:::Indeed, Mith's right. The passage he's referring to reads:
:::''These were the ('''ëalar''') spirits who first adhered to him in the days of his splendour, and became most like him in his corruption: their hearts were of fire, but they were cloaked in darkness, and terror went before them; they had whips of flame. Balrogs they were named by the Noldor in later days.''
:::As the Balrogs seem to have become completely incarnate after wearing their "cloaks of darkness" for a long while, I doubt they could later be regarded as ëalar ''per se'', especially Durin's Bane which had been incarnate for thousands of years. Unless, of course, one would consider Tolkien's description "cloaked in darkness" as suggesting they were never incarnate at all, but still spirits that hid themselves in some tangible darkness. But that would make it hard to understand how they could be killed, wouldn't it? ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 19:13, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Forums:Tom Bombadil, Man or Maia?

2010-01-05T18:55:49Z

Earendilyon:

<div style="background: #eee; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 5px">'''[[Main Page|Tolkien Gateway]] > [[Forum:Council|Council]] > {{PAGENAME}}'''</div> [[Category:Council]]


I have read numerous articles about Tom Bombadil and who exactly he is. But there are SO many different opinions, I still can't figure it out. I am a Tolkien fan under 20, and would really like a good strong opinion using facts to help me figure out who he really is. Below are some opinions i have heard:

1. Tom Bombadil is a "retired" Maia.

2. Tom Bombadil is just a crazy man.

3. Tom Bombadil was a fictional character from bedtime stories that Tolkien would make up for his children. Then he was later added to LoTR for no reason, just as an enigma.

Please help me out here. Thanks.

:Well, young fan. First off, our article on ol' Tom is a wreck - I'm planning to rewrite that. As for the opinions - #3 is the right one. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:21, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

:He's not a Maia or indeed a Vala because he says he was in Middle Earth before even Melkor. Obviously he's not a man, for a start he's immune to the ring's effects (which since Gandalf and Saruman aren't would be another reason he's not a Maia) and he's many thousands of years too old. Number 3 is correct, but that doesn't mean he can't be placed in Middle earth's cosmology. The way I see it, since we can't fit him in to any other categories and because of his unequivocal claim to being "Oldest" he is an integral part of the Music of the Ainur; a natural force of Middle earth, a [[hröa]] without a [[fëa]]. --[[User:Aule the Smith|Aule the Smith]] 13:42, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
::Can't agree more. It's exactly my opinion about Tom since years. Nice going, Aule. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:27, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
::::Yes, I also agree with Aule. Tom Bombadil could be part of the Music of the Ainur. He could be made with Arda at the beginning of Time. However I'm not completely sure, because the assumption don't clarify why Tom, made together with Arda, is free to the Ring's evil effects, whilst the Ainur (like the Maiar) made by Ilúvatar before the Creation are not free. We can't forget that Arda is not immune from the evil effects of Morgoth's (and Sauron's) power. So the supposition that Tom Bombadil is part of the Middle-Earth and at the same time immune from the Ring's power could be a little paradox. [[User:Finrod Felagund|Finrod Felagund]] 13:09, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

:::Could it possibly be that Tom B. is an avatar of Illúvatar? I have seen this tossed around by a few Tolkien scholars. In many forms of myth, some avatars of greater gods are not even aware that this is what they are. Japanese Myth for instance is replete with characters who are the avatars of great spirits who have no idea that this is their origin. Joseph Campbell talks about this in relation to primitive societies where the avatars must live among mankind in order to understand their suffering before they are allowed to enter into "Heaven" to take their place among the motive forces of the universe.

:::Maybe this is what Tom B. is. I am pretty sure that he would have been unaware of Campbell (due to Campbell not yet having written most of his works and just being a student of Jung at the time. Being such a creature would give him the insights into the world and a flighty short attention span.

:::Of course, it is just another theory, and it is far more likely that Tom is just an accident in the writing of ''The Lord of the Rings'' when he still had a vision of it as a more thorough children's story than ''The Hobbit''. As such, he is the mystery of the far off towers in the mist which hold the promise of adventure for some and peril for others.

:::[[User:Matthew|Matthew]] 17:21, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

:::::I reckon Tom is basicaly a god. I think that he's the creator of everything natural, hence his power over trees. As he is a 'god' he is not affected by age or the ring.
:::::--[[User:Pand.|Pand.]] 21:50, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Another suggestion I have heard is that he is a personification of Middle-earth: the ring doesn't affect him because the Ring affects people and not the land itself. This also might help to explain Goldberry's connection with him as she comes from Middle-earth itself (the Withywindle).

::::But, ultimately, as Tolkien said in Letter 144, "''And even in a mythical age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).''" (In fact, Letter 144 is probably the most interesting and important with regards to Tolkien's thinking on Bombadil).

::::With regards to the article on Tom, I think we should just state all the relevant points of view, with evidence and leave it at that. --[[User:Mith|Mith]] 14:20, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::I don't know what you think,but I believe that he is some form or avatar of Iluvatar himself stationed to watvh over Arda.{{unsigned|Beres}}

::::::This explanation - while attractively logical - is not consistent with Tolkien's intent. As a staunch Catholic, this couldn't be what he envisioned about Tom.[[User:ElfMaven|ElfMaven]] 02:23, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::: My preferred solution to the enigma of Tom is that he is the author incarnate, the creator of the legendarium who has taken bodily form to enter and live inside his own creation. In other words, he is Tolkien himself. This interpretation is consistent with most of the textual references, and flows naturally from Tolkien's strong Christian beliefs. As the creator he is of course older than anything in his created world, and because he actually has an existence outside his creation in a wholly different dimension the powerful evils of Middle Earth do not hold sway over him. Finally, the author of a story generally tries to let his characters run their own lives and make their own decisions, rather then forcing them to act according to his own wishes. This explains why Bombadil chooses to live an isolated life, away from and unconcerned with all the important persons and events of Middle-earth, and can not be relied upon as the solution to the problem of the One Ring.{{unsigned|Faded Glory}}

Something I've heard is the possibility of Tom being the reader. This would explain how he can see Frodo and know that everything will turn out okay. He is the reader of the book put into the book. The ring doesn't affect the reader, nor can the reader affect the ring. Finally, the reader doesn't have any power in the world in the bok, explaining why Tom can't help them anymore.[[User:LotRfan01|LotRfan01]] 05:12, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

:I never really understood Bombadil, but I suppose he can represent the reader. My explanation is that he was the first Maia sent into the world, possibly to help build Alamaren or the Lamps. He may have been unassigned to any Ainur (or assigned to Melkor, then fled from him) and therefore not bound to any task. He may have found a love for the Shire, like Gandalf, and settled there early in the history of Arda. Choice No. 3 is also correct.--[[User:Galdor of the Havens|Galdor of the Havens]] 21:34, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

::An interesting point is that, although he was created to be an enigma, since he was in the books there must be a logical explanation. Everything in the books must be explainable because the world has to make sense. [[User:LotRfan01|LotRfan01]] 05:29, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Exactly! Although I do not believe any of his works to be in any way allogorical (and so does he, "It is neither allegorical nor topical....I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence." Wiki article on Allegory) I believe that he has based Tom on either himself or the reader. Yet it must be explained literally as well.--[[User:Galdor of the Havens|Galdor of the Havens]] 20:14, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I have come across this [http://tolkien.slimy.com/essays/Bombadil4Spirits.html article] which, not to make this any more confusing, does bring up Goldberrry and some significant evidence. It is possible for Tom to exist in a category that is entirely his own.

Secondly, I'm not sure how hippie this theory is, so bear with me, isn't it possible that Tolkien created Tom just because he wanted to see that in his world some good, that could never be consumed by evil, would always last. As many authors do who get so involved with their works, few as much as the Professor, this may be Tolkien's way of secretely insuring a "happily ever after" ending - knowing that Tom will always be in Middle Earth and that some good will never be destroyed.--{{User:Breragor/sig}} 00:18, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

:Steuard's essay is certainly one of the best texts available, though I do think that even this fine paper does contain some minor flaws. I have discussed this with Steuard [[http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books.tolkien/msg/4fb051ba3ce3aea2|here]] (please forgive the references to physics -- Steuard is a physicist as am I), but in essence I think that Steuard makes too little of the very distinct possibility that all such genii loci were ''still'' considered Maiar in the later evolution of the legendarium, just as they certainly were when Tolkien wrote ''The Book of Lost Tales''. As it is, I think it is a mistake trying to put Tom into some nice pre-made box -- leave him the enigma he is, and wonder rather about the crucial role he plays in Tolkien's story. ''If'', however, you insist that he should be given a name, he is definitely a nature spirit, a genius loci, but the only race described by Tolkien that can not be refuted is for Tom to be an Ainu, but ''not'' one of the Valar (i.e. a Maia or someone of another, unnamed, order of Ainur). All other possibilities (including Eru or 'the reader') can be refuted. --{{User:Troelsfo/sig}} 10:42, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Ëalar

2010-01-04T20:29:54Z

Earendilyon: New page: I replaced Balrogs as being an example of Eälar with Maiar, since the Balrogs had after some time become fully incarnate and could no longer go without their body. ~ ~~~~

Ëalar

2010-01-04T20:26:05Z

Earendilyon: Replaced example 'Balrogs' with 'Maiar'

'''eälar''' is a [[Quenya]] word which refers to the spirits of beings who do not require a body in order to be complete. One example is [[Maiar]].

''Eälar'' are contrasted with ''[[fëar]]'', which are the souls of beings whose natural state is to be incarnated in a body.
==Etymology==
The word is related to the Quenya verb ''[[Ea (verb)|eä]]'' "be, exist".

''-la'' is the present participle ending of verbs (cf. "-ing" but Quenya ''-la'' only forms adjectival participles).<ref>http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/markirya.htm</ref>

Eälar are therefore composed only of their pure being.

== See also ==

*[[Eälar and Incarnation]]

{{references}}
[[Category:Quenya nouns]]

Talk:Uncommon words

2009-12-26T10:43:53Z

Earendilyon: /* EoA */

Whose opinion is expressed in this article with some of the explanations? --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 16:12, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

:Hm, not sure. I compiled them from various sources a while ago. Are you disagreeing with the fact that a word is listed or the actual explanation? Feel free to change anything :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:19, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

::I was wondering whether some were your opinion, or maybe CT's from HoMe. I saw with at least one of the words 'I think that ...', so I though I'd ask. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 16:24, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

:::I'll double check when I get home, "I" should probably be removed, even if it is [[Christopher Tolkien|CT]].

== Cleanup ==

Im not sure why it hasnt been done before, maybe someone can tell my why these arent broken down my letter. I was about to do it myself, but thought there must have been a logical reason why one of the more seasoned editors hadnt done it yet.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 02:45, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Bootless ==
I was wondering why the word ''bootless'' is mentioned in this list. It seems to have another meaning besides the obvious 'without boots', but that meaning is from the Shakespearean era and moreover, I came here through a link from [[The Stone Troll]], where the word is used with its obvious meaning. In my opinion a bit bootless to have it in this list. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 20:15, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

:In this sense, I agree. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:42, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

== EoA ==

As I brought up over in the discussion for the Standards page, most of these definitions are copied exactly word for word from ''The Encyclopedia of Arda''. I don't think Tolkien Gateway is authorized to lift material directly from EoA.

Should the plagiarized entries be deleted?

[[User:ElfMaven|ElfMaven]] 22:15, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

: The problem is we have no record of which entries have been copied. Whenever I come discover one I re-write it, but as I don't use the ''Encyclopedia of Arda'' I'm not the best at discovering which articles have been repeated. As far as I'm concerned, every editor ''should'' make sure they re-write any article they know has been copied.

:With regards to being "authorised", the ''Encyclopedia of Arda'' says the following:

{{quote|You're free to reproduce maps or images from the site, as long as you stick to a few guidelines. In this situation, we do insist on an acknowledgement and a link back to the ''Encyclopedia of Arda'' (let us know if you do this, and we'll normally link back to your site too). You can also quote from the text if you like, within reason.<br/><br/>This ''only'' applies to non-profit, non-commercial sites. If you want to use elements of the Encyclopedia on a commercial site, please contact us for permission.|[http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/faq/use.html Encyclopedia of Arda - Conditions of Re-use]}}

:As such, I am going to stick a link to the ''Encyclopedia of Arda'' at the bottom of this article until such a time it's been re-edited enough to no longer require it. Incidentally, many of the words in this list do not originate from the ''Encyclopedia of Arda'' but come from sources such as ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]]'' (and it's debatable whether you can own the copyright on deciding which words count as rare or unusual!). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 23:05, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

:: That's appropriate. You don't think an email to EoA would help too?

:: Yes, I recognize that there are many definitions (and whole articles) that are not copied from EoA. In fact I was very interested to read here the correct definition of leechcraft. [[User:ElfMaven|ElfMaven]] 01:57, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

:::In the second entry on this discussion page, [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] wrote he's assembled the list form various sources, so I don't think a link to EoA is neccessary.
:::Another thing is how we would define 'uncommon words' ;-) I'm no native English speaker myself, but many of the words listed I do know the meaning of, probably because I've read Tolkien extensively and also other English (fantasy) writers (Stephen R. Donaldson is the one using uncommon and obsolete wordt, btw!). ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 10:43, 26 December 2009 (UTC).

Clayhanger family

2009-12-10T08:41:26Z

Earendilyon: Typo

'''Clayhanger''' was a family of [[Hobbits]]. Only one member is recorded by name, [[Lalia Clayhanger|Lalia]].<ref name="L214">{{HM|L}}, [[Letter 214]]</ref>

==Genealogy==
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree | LAL |y| FOR | LAL='''LALIA CLAYHANGER'''<br/><small>''1283 - 1402''</small>|FOR=[[Fortinbras Took II|Fortinbras Took II]]<br/><small>''1278 - 1380''}}
{{familytree | | | |!| | | |}}
{{familytree | | | FER | | | FER=[[Ferumbras Took III|Ferumbras III]]<br/><small>''1316 - 1415''<small>}}
{{familytree/end}}

==Etymology==
''Clayhanger'' is an English placename, the name of three hamlets in England (one in West Midlands, one in Cheshire and one in Devon). It comes from [[Old English|OE]] ''clǣghangra'', "Clayey wooded slope".<ref>A.D. Mills, "A Dictionary of British Place-Names"</ref> As a family name, it is best known from [[wikipedia:Arnold Burnett|Arnold Burnett]]'s [[wikipedia:The Clayhanger Family|''Clayhanger'' novels]] published between 1910 and 1918. The name would likely be used for a family that resides on a clayey wooded slope.

{{references}}
[[Category:Hobbit Families]]
[[Category:Clayhanger]]

Talk:Clayhanger family

2009-12-10T08:40:50Z

Earendilyon: Answer

== Clavey? ==
Does the word ''clavey'' exist? I suggest it is a misspelling or misinterpretation of ''clayey''. -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 01:49, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

:You're quite right, Mith. I found [http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~aezins//kepn/detailpop.php?placeno=15824 this result] from The Key to English Place Names of the [http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~aezins//kepn/index.php Institute for Name-Studies] at Nottingham University. I'll correct the article accordingly. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 08:40, 10 December 2009 (UTC)