Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

Tolkien Gateway:Featured articles/Nominations

2011-04-25T18:46:47Z

Eldarion Telcontar: agree

== Featured Articles ==

Any registered user can nominate an article for '''featured''' status. It should be well-written, complete, illustrated, and referenced. After nomination, an article should receive five votes with with no objections within a month or so. Each entry should begin with '''Agree''' or '''Disagree''' and be signed by the user. One vote allowed per user, of course. For the sake of practicality, let's limit active nominations to '''two articles''' at a time. Further nominations should be held in the queue, in reserve.

==[[Gandalf]]==
It's a pretty impressive article, and well deserved for my favourite character and such an interesting character.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 07:14, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

* '''Agree'''. If I'm not mistaking, Gandalf has already been FA once. That doesn't mean it can't be again, but it's near the end of the queue. Oh, '''agree''', btw. but the sourcing needs to be a bit better. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 08:01, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

* '''Agree'''. This article is extensive, appears complete, well-referenced, and lavishly illustrated. It is a prime example of what an FA should be.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 13:31, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

*'''Agree'''. Yes, quite well done. Excellent, in fact.--Ingwe

* '''Agree'''. Nice long article, good information, plus good introduction into Tolkien. {{unsigned|ZehnWaters}}

*'''Agree''' A Middle Earth without Gandalf, is not a true Middle Eearth at all.--{{User:Breragor/sig}}

*'''Agree'''. After reading it, I have to admit it is the best article we have.--<tt>[[User:Odysseas-spartan-53|Odysseas]]-[[User talk:Odysseas-spartan-53|Spartan]][[Special:Contributions/Odysseas-spartan-53|53]]</tt> 10:50, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

*'''Agree'''. Exellent Article! Besides, Gandalf is the heart of Tolkien's work. His article deserves to be featured. [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 12:30, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

*'''Agree'''. The first thing new users see is the main page, and generally people are most familiar with Gandalf. --Yurpee

*'''Agree'''. A central character in the LoTR trilogy. Everyone knows who he is and he deserves a good moment in the spotlight. -- Naruvir

*'''Disagree''' - I think it's a big cluttered in its structure and severely lacks sources required to make it worthy of the title. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:23, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

==[[Gondor]]==
[[Gondor]] would be a good choice. It's extensive, covers many bases, and has the requisite references. It should be next in line to be voted on for FA status.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 10:41, 28 July 2008 (EDT) 

:'''Undecided''' - although well-written, I think it needs to be better referenced as we should only show off the ''very best'' articles that TG has to offer. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:19, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

==[[Dwarves]]==
I think they're not given enough credit nor enough recognition - they're the most overshadowed of the major races in Tolkien's legendarium.

*'''Agree''' - I don't know if the banner at the top of the article matters, so if not it has my full support. Otherwise I vote for another Dwarves-related article. -- [[User:Breragor|Breragor]]
*'''Undecided''' - As an article it needs some work, as is clear with the <nowiki>{{sources}}</nowiki> template at the top. However I agree that as a race they are often overlooked. --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 03:32, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
*'''Disagree''' - A complete lack of sources, the structure is a bit haphazard and it contains a few too many redlinks and spelling errors for my liking. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:08, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
*'''Agree''' - I have been personally working on compiling all the information I can find on Dwarves in Tolkiens books, even if it conflicts with itself. Once it is compiled for my personal use I will copy it to this website. -- TolkienScholar91 11:08, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
*'''Disagree''' - See Mith. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:03, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

==[[Númenor]]==
It has been over a month (and there are "disagree" votes up there ^^) so I figured it's time for a new nomination; Númenor.

*'''Agree''' - I believe Númenor and its history to be some of the most interesting in all of the legendarium. For it is in this history that Gondor and Arnor (and many great things and people in Middle Earth) are rooted. --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 18:25, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

*'''Disagree''' - Lack of sources, and I think the article is poorly structured (and contains fanon). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:57, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

:::Wouldn't there be a banner on the page then? Look, it's about choosing Númenor as the article (i.e. whether you think it deserves such recognition) and NOT the article itself. This is a perfectly fine article, it's not a stub and not horribly written, so just take it easy, Mith. On this page you have disagreed with every article unless you wrote it! --{{unsigned|Breragor}}

*'''Disagree''' - Númenor is already featured on the [[Portal:Locations|Locations Portal]]. I think for the featured articles we display on the Main page we should look for our best articles, whatever the subject matter. When it comes to portals I think we can be more relaxed. --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:39, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

::::How do you even find the [[Portal:Locations|Locations Portal]]? {{unsigned|Breragor}}

:::::I made it. Also there's a link to it on the Main Page. All portals are currently under development. Please don't remove <nowiki>"{{unsigned|Breragor}}"</nowiki>, just sign your posts as you managed to do when you nominated Númenor yesterday. Thank you. --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

*'''Disagree''' - needs sources. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:03, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

==[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]==
It's about time the featured article was changed - this has many pictures, details, and sources.

*'''Agree''' - The man himself deserves credit. If this article is not in good enough shape, I'm not sure what is. {{unsigned|Breragor}}

*'''Disagree''' - I feel bad about disagreeing again (as you pointed out I've disagreed to everything else), however, this article has some glaring faults:-
*# It's not [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=J.R.R._Tolkien&oldid=10634 our article] - it's [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=J._R._R._Tolkien&oldid=39770884 Wikipedia's];
*# As the largest (by far) Tolkien wiki, I feel that each and ever article we have should be better than all our competitors. Our article is significantly lacking when compared to the [[wikipedia:J. R. R. Tolkien|current Wikipedia article]] (which has been featured);
*# No references at all: it contains an unused - and partly disordered - bibliography;
*# It's barely been improved over the last six years, which is why we have the article [[J.R.R. Tolkien/temp]] as a plan for future development.
:::Unfortunately, for all the above, I feel this article cannot become the featured article.--{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:14, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

*'''Disagree''' - This article is mostly good but it needs footnotes to round it off.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 11:19, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

==[[Smaug]]==

This article has developed pretty decently (kudos to [[User:KingAragorn]] for tracking all those refs!). Has it reached a FA status yet? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:27, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

* '''Agree''' - (once the original research issue is resolved). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:21, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
* '''Agree''' --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 13:27, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

* '''Agree''' - though if I have any fault with it, it's that the Etymology section is a bit hollow. It's three sentences, three lines, three sources. It doesn't really form one whole. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 13:46, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

*'''Agree''' - kudos indeed to [[User:KingAragorn|that fellow]]. >.< --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:12, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
*'''Agree''' - meets all the criteria -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 18:46, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

[[Category:Featured Article Nominations|Featured Article Nominations]]

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 April 2011

2011-03-21T19:07:05Z

Eldarion Telcontar: attend

Please put any ideas for the agenda and any general discussion here. If you are going to attend (or not), please sign your name below.

==Attendees==
# {{User:KingAragorn/sig}}
# {{User:Mith/sig}}
# [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 19:07, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

==Non-Attendees==
#--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:47, 20 March 2011 (UTC) (Seems like I'll be working)

==Ideas for Agenda==
*Should the Ithilien skin be set to default on all browsers?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:41, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
*Feature Article criteria again. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:45, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

==Discussion==

__NOTOC__

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2011-03-12T11:10:03Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

== List of nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

* 18 quotes from The Fellowship of the Ring
* 25 quotes from The Two Towers
* 37 quotes from The Return of The King

=== The Fellowship of the Ring ===

{{quote|'Proudfeet!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavillion. His name, of course, was Proudfoot, and well merited; his feet were large, exceptionally furry, and both were on the table.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Shadow of the Past]]"}}
----
{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Seek for the Sword that was broken: In Imladris it dwells; There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells. There shall be shown a token That Doom is near at hand, For Isildur's Bane shall waken, And the Halfling forth shall stand.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|We must take a hard road, a road unforeseen. There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril — to Mordor. We must send the Ring to the Fire.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Fly you fools!" he cried, and was gone.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}
----
{{quote|Memory is not what the heart desires. That is only a mirror, be it clear as Kheled-zâram. Or so says the heart of Gimli the Dwarf. Elves may see things otherwise. Indeed I have heard that for them memory is more like to the waking world than to a dream. Not so for Dwarves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Farewell to Lórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Breaking of the Fellowship]]"}}

=== The Two Towers ===

{{quote|Gondor! Gondor, between the Mountains and the Sea! West Wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree Fell like bright rain in gardens of the Kings of old. O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold! O Gondor, Gondor! Shall Men behold the Silver Tree, Or West Wind blow again between the Mountains and the Sea?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of the shadows the hobbits peeped, gazing back down the slope:little furtive figures that in the dim light looked like elf-children in the deeps of time peering out of the Wild Wood in wonder at their first dawn.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Uruk-hai]]"}}
----
{{quote|Do not be hasty, that is my motto.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Learn now the lore of Living Creatures! First name the four, the free peoples: Eldest of all, the elf-children; Dwarf the delver, dark are his houses; Ent the earthborn, old as mountains; Man the mortal, master of horses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|To Isengard! Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone; Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone, We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door; For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war! To land of gloom with tramp of doom, with roll of drum, we come, we come; To Isengard with doom we come! With doom we come, with doom we come!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Yes, I am white now," said Gandalf. "Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Dark Lord has Nine. But we have One, mightier than they: the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss, and they shall fear him. We will go where he leads.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|We are all friends here. Or should be; for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward, if we quarrel.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise now, arise, Riders of Théoden! Dire deeds awake, dark is it eastward. Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded! Forth Eorlingas!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|"So that is the King of Rohan," said Pippin in an undertone. "A fine old fellow. Very polite."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Road to Isengard]]"}}
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{{quote|Often does hatred hurt itself!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Voice of Saruman]]"}}
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{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
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{{quote|Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Shadowfax tossed his head and cried aloud, as if a trumpet had summoned him to battle. Then he sprang forward. Fire flew from his feet; night rushed over him.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Taming of Sméagol]]"}}
----
{{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace-all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}
----
{{quote|"For myself," said Faramir, "I would see the White Tree in flower again in the courts of the kings, and the Silver Crown return, and Minas Tirith in peace: Minas Anor again as of old, full of light, high and fair, beautiful as a queen among other queens."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|Who can now hold the fords when the King of the Nine Riders comes? And other armies will come. I am too late. All is lost. I tarried on the way. All is lost. Even if my errand is performed, no one will ever know. There will be no one I can tell. It will be in vain.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|I wonder if we shall ever be put into songs or tales. We're in one, or course; but I mean: put into words, you know, told by the fireside, or read out of a great big book with red and black letters, years and years afterwards. And people will say: "Let's hear about Frodo and the Ring!" And they'll say: "Yes, that's one of my favourite stories. Frodo was very brave. wasn't he, dad?" "Yes, my boy, the famousest of the hobbits, and that's saying a lot."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}

=== The Return of The King ===

{{quote|Here do I swear fealty and service to Gondor, and to the Lord and Steward of the realm, to speak and to be silent, to do and to let be, to come and to go, in need or plenty, in peace or war, in living or dying, from this hour henceforth, until my lord release me, or death take me, or the world end.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]"}}
----
{{quote|I will not forget it, nor fail to reward that which is given: fealty with love, valour with honour, oath-breaking with vengeance.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]"}}
----
{{quote|The rule of no realm is mine, neither of Gondor nor any other, great or small. But all worthy things that are in peril as the world now stands, those are my care. And for my part, I shall not wholly fail of my task, though Gondor should perish, if anything passes through this night that can still grow fair or bear fruit and flower again in days to come. For I also am a steward. Did you not know?|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]"}}
----
{{quote|"What do you fear, lady?" he asked. "A cage," she said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Passing of the Grey Company]]"}}
----
{{quote|Such was the dark Dunharrow, the work of long-forgotten men. Their name was lost and no song or legend remembered it. For what purpose they had made this place, as a town or secret temple or a tomb of kings, none in Rohan could say. Here they laboured in the Dark Years; and now they had vanished, and only the old Púkel-men were left, still sitting at the turnings of the road.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Muster of Rohan]]"}}
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{{quote|Let us remember that a traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend. It can be so, sometimes.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Siege of Gondor]]"}}
----
{{quote|In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Siege of Gondor]]"}}
----
{{quote|And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the city, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn. And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns horn. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Siege of Gondor]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered, a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
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{{quote|Over the field rang his clear voice calling: "Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!"|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
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{{quote|So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and the chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|Few other griefs amid the ill chances of this world have more bitterness and shame for a man's heart than to behold the love of a lady so fair and brave that cannot be returned.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
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{{quote|"Master Meriadoc," said Aragorn, "if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called ''westmansweed'' by the vulgar, and ''galenas'' by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I. For I have not slept in such a bed as this, since I rode from Dunharrow, nor eaten since the dark before dawn."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
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{{quote|It is the way of my people to use light words at such times and say less than they mean. We fear to say too much. It robs us of the right words when a jest is out of place.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
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{{quote|It is best to love first what you are fitted to love, I suppose: you must start somewhere and have some roots, and the soil of the Shire is deep. Still there are things deeper and higher; and not a gaffer could tend his garden in what he calls peace but for them, whether he knows about them or not.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
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{{quote|For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gloin's son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
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{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire, nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Black Gate Opens]]"}}
----
{{quote|Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dûr. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Tower of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|In western lands beneath the Sun The flowers may rise in Spring, The trees may bud, the waters run, The merry finches sing. Or there maybe 'tis cloudless night And swaying beeches bear The Elven-stars as jewels white Amid their branching hair.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Tower of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Land of Shadow]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I have come," he said. "But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!" And suddenly, as he set it on his finger, he vanished from Sam's sight.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Mount Doom (chapter)|Mount Doom]]"}}
----
{{quote|But do you remember Gandalf's words: Even Gollum may have something yet to do? But for him, Sam, I could not have destroyed the Ring. The Quest would have been in vain, even at the bitter end. So let us forgive him! For the Quest is achieved and now all is over. I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things, Sam.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Mount Doom (chapter)|Mount Doom]]"}}
----
{{quote|"A great Shadow has departed," said Gandalf, and then he laughed, and the sound was like music, or like water in a parched land; and has he listened the thought came to Sam that he had not heard laughter, the pure sound of merriment, for days upon days without count. It fell upon his ears like the echo of all the joys he had ever known.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Field of Cormallen]]"}}
----
{{quote|To the Sea, to the Sea! The white gulls are crying, The wind is blowing, and the white foam is flying. West, west away, the round sun is falling. Grey ship, grey ship, do you hear them calling. The voices of my people that have gone before me? I will leave, I will leave the woods that bore me; For our days are ending and our years failing. I will pass the wide waters lonely sailing. Long are the waves on the Last Shore falling, Sweet are the voices in the Lost Isle calling, In Eressëa, in Elvenhome that no man can discover, Where the leaves fall not: land of my people for ever!|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Field of Cormallen]]"}}
----
{{quote|But when Aragorn arose all that beheld him gazed in silence, for it seemed to them that he was revealed to them now for the first time. Tall as the sea-kings of old, he stood above all that were near: ancient of days he seemed and yet in the flower of manhood; and wisdom sat upon his brow, and strength and healing were in his hands, and a light was about him.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Steward and the King]]"}}
----
{{quote|This is your realm, and the heart of the greater realm that shall be. The Third Age of the world is ended, and the new age is begun; and it is your task to order its beginning and to preserve what may be preserved. For though much has been saved, much must now pass away.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Steward and the King]]"}}
----
{{quote|I am the daughter of Elrond. I shall not go with him now when he departs to the Havens; for mine is the choice of Lúthien, and as she so have I chosen, both the sweet and the bitter.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Many Partings]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day's rising he rode singing in the sun, sword unsheathing. Hope he rekindled, and in hope ended; over death, over dread, over doom lifted out of loss, out of life, unto long glory.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Many Partings]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Road goes ever on and on Out from the door where it began. Now far ahead the Road has gone, Let others follow it who can! Let them a journey new begin, But I at last with weary feet Will turn towards the lighted inn, My evening-rest and sleep to meet.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Many Partings]]"}}
----
{{quote|There is no real going back. Though I may come to the Shire, it will not seem the same; for I shall not be the same. I am wounded with knife, sting, and tooth, and a long burden. Where shall I find rest?|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Homeward Bound]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}
----
{{quote|You have robbed my revenge of sweetness, and now I must go hence in bitterness, in debt to your mercy. I hate it and you! Well, I go and I will trouble you no more. But do not expect me to wish you health and long life. You will have neither. But that is not my doing. I merely foretell.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}
----
{{quote|I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them. But you are my heir: all that I had and might have had I leave to you.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Grey Havens]]"}}
----
{{quote|Well, here at last, dear friends, on the shores of the Sea comes the end of our fellowship in Middle-earth. Go in peace! I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Grey Havens]]"}}
----
{{quote|But Sam turned to Bywater, and so came back up the Hill, as day was ending once more. And he went on, and there was yellow light, and fire within; and the evening meal was ready, and he was expected. And Rose drew him in, and set him in his chair, and put little Elanor upon his lap. He drew a deep breath. "Well, I'm back," he said.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Grey Havens]]"}}

=== The Hobbit ===

{{Quote|I have chosen Mr. Baggins and that ought to be enough for all of you. If I say he is a Burglar, a Burglar he is, or will be when the time comes. There is a lot more in him than you guess, and a deal more than he has any idea of himself.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[An Unexpected Party]]"}}
----
{{Quote|If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[The Return Journey]]"}}

=== The Silmarillion ===

{{Quote|There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made. And he spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before him, and he was glad.|{{S|I}}}}
----
{{Quote|Fëanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant. Finarfin was the fairest, and the most wise of heart.|{{S|5}}}}
----
{{Quote|Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue.|{{S|9}}}}
----
{{Quote|Last of all Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed; and it is sung that the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered, and each time that he slew Húrin cried 'Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!' Seventy times he uttered that cry; but they took him at last alive.|{{S|20}}}}
----
{{Quote|The Nazgûl were they; the Ringwraiths, the Enemy's most terribly servants; darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.|{{S|V}}}}

=== Unfinished Tales ===

{{quote|When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth.|''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', "[[The Quest of Erebor]]"}}

=== Comments ===
I'm not sure where to place this, but I'll put it here. I think the balance of the overall set of quotes is too far in favour of ''[[The Lord of the Rings|TLOTR]]'', as I think we should have more from other publications, especially ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Silmarillion]]''. What does everyone else think? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

:I agree. But it's just because I started with quotes from TLOTR. When I'm finished with that I will look for some from the other books. We certainly shouldn't stop when we have 52 quotes but should keep finding new ones until we have enough from every important book. And if you have more great quotes like our present FQ you could post them. --[[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 00:15, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Witch-king

2011-03-11T16:19:04Z

Eldarion Telcontar: added quote, okay?

{{footnotes}}
{{evil infobox
| image= [[Image:Melissa Hitchcock - The Black Captain.jpg|250px]]
| name= Witch-king of Angmar
| othernames=Black Captain, Lord of the Nazgûl, Chief of the Nine, Lord of Minas Morgul
| created= [[Second Age|S.A.]] 1800-2200, probably [[Númenor]]
| years= [[Second Age 2251|S.A. 2251]]-[[Third Age 3019|T.A. 3019]]
| age= 4200+
| destroyed= [[Third Age 3019|T.A. 3019]], [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]
| realm= [[Angmar]], [[Minas Morgul]]
| gender= Male
| race= [[Men]]/[[Nazgûl]]
| appearance= (Later) Cruel, pale king with gleaming hair and a crown, invisible to most eyes
| accomplishments= [[Arnor#The Fall of Arthedain|Fall of Arnor]], fall of [[Minas Ithil]] and [[Osgiliath]], deaths of [[Eärnur]] and [[Théoden]]
|}}
{{quote|In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.|"[[The Siege of Gondor]]"<ref name="Siege">{{RK|Siege}}</ref>}}
The '''Witch-king of Angmar''' was the chief of the [[Nazgûl]], King of [[Angmar]], and [[Sauron]]’s great captain in his wars. A [[Wraiths|wraith]], the Witch-king of Angmar was nearly indestructible, a terrible warrior, and a cunning strategist.

==History==
Some time after Sauron seized the [[Nine Rings]] in the [[Fall of Eregion]], [[Second Age 1697|S.A. 1697]] he gave them to mortal kings, sorcerers, and other warriors.[[#References|1]] With these rings the Nine achieved glory and grew wealthy, with the ability to turn invisible at will, not aging, but hating life as they were slowly drawn under Sauron’s dominion.[[#References|1]] Eventually all became [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]], the dreaded Nazgûl.

The one later known as the Witch-king was one of these, likely one of the unnamed three lords of [[Númenor]] to take the rings.[[#References|2]] [[#References|3]] He first appeared in the histories as a Ringwraith in [[Second Age 2251|S.A. 2251]]. Being the most powerful of the Nazgûl, he became their chief, the most dreaded servant of his master Sauron.

When [[Mordor]] fell in [[Second Age 3441|S.A. 3441]], the Nazgûl vanished into the shadows, and were not heard of again for a long time.[[#References|4]]

===Early Power in Angmar===
More than a thousand years later, in c. [[Third Age 1050|T.A. 1050]] of the [[Third Age]], [[Sauron]] began to rebuild his power in [[Dol Guldur]]. In c. [[Third Age 1300|T.A. 1300]] his Nazgûl also reappeared, and the Witch-king established his realm, [[Angmar]], in the north.[[#References|4]] His capital was [[Carn Dûm]], on the northernmost peak of the [[Misty Mountains]]. He summoned men, [[orcs]], and other creatures of evil inclination to his banner. No one knew that he was actually a servant of the long-dormant [[Sauron]], and few that he was a wraith.[[#References|5]]

In the north, disunity plagued the [[Dúnedain]] of [[Arnor]]. They had divided into three kingdoms, [[Cardolan]], [[Rhudaur]], and [[Arthedain]], and were constantly at war with one another.[[#References|5]] The Witch-king saw the North-kingdom of Arnor as more vulnerable than the South-kingdom of Gondor.[[#References|6]] He played upon their opposition, sending in infiltrators and taking over the hearts of the men of that land. By [[Third Age 1349|T.A. 1349]] the government of Rhudaur was controlled by men secretly in his service,[[#References|6]] and he secretly aided them in their wars against the other kingdoms.[[#References|7]] He then struck at a time of great hostility among the three, in [[Third Age 1409|T.A. 1409]]. Rhudaur in the east fell first, and most of the Dúnedain there were hunted down and slaughtered by sorcerers.[[#References|8]] Cardolan was ravaged, and the [[Tower of Amon Sûl]], held by the men of Arthedain, was placed under siege. King [[Arveleg I]] was slain, and the tower was destroyed, but the coveted ''[[Amon Sûl-stone|palantír]]'' escaped in the hands of the surviving men of Arthedain and was brought to [[Fornost]].[[#References|9]]

The Witch-king continued to press the men of Arthedain, laying siege to Fornost, and he might have taken over all of Arnor in that one offensive. But [[Araphor]], the 18-year-old son of Arveleg, came to leadership and, with the help of the ancient elf [[Círdan]] of [[Lindon]], repelled the Witch-king’s forces at Fornost and the [[North Downs]].[[#References|10]] [[Elrond]] brought an army of [[Elves]] from [[Rivendell]] and [[Lothlórien]], and the Witch-king was pushed back and subdued.

===Twilight of Angmar===
The Witch-king sat silent in Carn Dûm, rebuilding his armies and preparing for a final assault on [[Arthedain]], last of the Arnorian kingdoms. The [[Dark Plague]] came and went in [[Third Age 1636]], taking with it the last of the Dúnedain of [[Cardolan]]. The Witch-king sent [[barrow-wights]] to inhabit the barrows in [[Tyrn Gorthad]].[[#References|10]] In [[Third Age 1974|1974]], he felt that his power was sufficiently restored to begin the advance.

His attack was sudden, but not unexpected. King [[Arvedui]] sent a message to King [[Eärnil II]] of [[Gondor]] the year before, but help did not arrive in time. [[Fornost]] fell, and the Witch-king took up residence there in the palace.[[#References|11]] Arvedui held out as best as he might on the [[North Downs]], but at last fled north with the treasured ''[[palantíri]]'' of [[Amon Sûl-stone|Amon Sûl]] and [[Annúminas-stone|Annúminas]]. He would not return, for he perished in a shipwreck in [[Third Age 1975|1975]]. With him the ''palantíri'' were lost forever in the icy seas of [[Forod]]. The already-diminished North-kingdom ended, and [[Arnor]] fell.[[#References|10]]

Meanwhile, a coalition in the south had formed. Eärnil sent his son, [[Eärnur]], north with a great fleet, all that Gondor could spare. They arrived at [[Lindon]], and joined with the folk of Círdan. Círdan summoned all that would come: surviving Dúnedain of Arnor and elves of Lindon.[[#References|11]] Even a company of [[Hobbits|hobbit]] archers went to their aide.[[#References|10]] The Witch-king had grown overconfident, and instead of staying behind his fortifications initiated the attack. The [[Battle of Fornost]] was fought on the plain between [[Nenuial]] and the North Downs. The Witch-king may not have anticipated the strength brought against him, but for whatever reason the alliance gained the upper hand. His army began to fall back toward Fornost, but Eärnur’s magnificent horsemen struck from the north, and the Witch-king was routed.[[#References|11]]

He decided to flee to Angmar and the safety of Carn Dûm, but the cavalry, with Eärnur himself in the lead, overtook him. Moreover, the ranks of the allies swelled, as an army of elves from [[Rivendell]] came led by the mighty hero of old, [[Glorfindel]]. Angmar was purged of men and orcs, and all seemed lost for the Witch-king in the face of such numbers. But the Witch-king himself came at the last, robed and masked in black and riding a black horse, and attempted to kill Eärnur with his own hands. But Eärnur’s horse shied away and fled, and the Witch-king laughed. But Glorfindel came on his white horse, and faced with such power the Witch-king fled. He vanished into the shadows, and no-one marked where he had gone.[[#References|11]]

Eärnur wanted to pursue, but Glorfindel held him back, and made his famous prophecy.

{{quote|He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall.|Glorfindel, ''[[The Return of the King]]'', [[Appendix A]] (iv)}}

===Lord of Minas Morgul===
The Witch-king escaped to [[Mordor]], and gathered the other Ringwraiths about him in [[Third Age 1980|1980]].[[#References|4]] Angmar and Carn Dûm were lost, and so in [[Third Age 2000|2000]] the Witch-king began a two-year siege of [[Minas Ithil]], eventually capturing the place and turning it into his residence. It was renamed [[Minas Morgul]], and the ''[[Ithil-stone|palantír]]'' was sent to Sauron. The Witch-king sent an aura of fear in [[Gondor]], and much of [[Ithilien]] was deserted.[[#References|11]]

Eärnur succeeded his father as King of Gondor, and still held the Witch-king in especial hostility due to his humiliation at the Battle of Fornost. The year of his coronation the Witch-king sent him a taunting challenge, but [[Mardil|Mardil Voronwë]] the steward restrained Eärnur from rash action. Seven years later the challenge was repeated, and Eärnur rode with a small escort to Minas Morgul. None that rode thither ever returned, and there was no longer a King in Gondor.[[#References|11]]

After this the Witch-king bided his time. He and the Nazgûl built up their armies, including the terrible new orc-race of [[uruks]]. In [[Third Age 2475|2475]] he sent them out to capture [[Osgiliath]], which they did successfully. They were driven out by [[Boromir (Steward of Gondor)|Boromir]], [[Ruling Steward|Steward]] of [[Gondor]], but Osgiliath now lay completely in ruins. Boromir went on to retake Ithilien, so that even the Witch-king feared him. But he was killed by a Morgul-wound, and so his rule was but twelve years.[[#References|12]]

===Hunt for the Ring===
Sauron declared himself openly in [[Third Age 2951|2951]], and sent three of his Ringwraiths to [[Dol Guldur]] (though the Witch-king was left in Minas Morgul). Then, by lucky chance, the creature [[Gollum]] was captured and interrogated. Under torture, the wretched creature revealed the tale of [[the One Ring]] and how it came to be in his possession. But he had the daring to trick Sauron into thinking that the land of the hobbits who stole the Ring was on the banks of the [[Gladden River]].[[#References|13]] Under the leadership of the Witch-king, Sauron sent the Nine unclothed and invisible to search for the Ring after the assault of Osgiliath.

[[Image:Marc Holmes - Nazgul.jpg|thumb|left|220px|''Nazgûl'' by [[Marc Holmes]].]][[Khamûl]], the Witch-king’s lieutenant, reported that he was unable to find the “[[the Shire|Shire]]” in the vales of [[Anduin]]. The Witch-king was determined to search north and west until Gollum was found, or the Shire. But plans were halted when Sauron received word of the prophecy in Gondor and the doings of the turncoat [[Saruman]], and concluded that the Wise did not yet have possession of the Ring. He sent the Ringwraiths to [[Isengard]] in the form of [[Nazgûl|Black Riders]], too late to prevent the escape of the captured wizard [[Gandalf]], but had words with Saruman. Saruman, already a traitor to both sides due to his transparent lust for the Ring, fortified himself in Isengard. The Witch-king did not have enough power with him to assault Saruman in his great fortress, but had words with him. Saruman convinced the Witch-king that Gandalf alone knew where the Shire and the Ring was, and so the Nine passed into [[Rohan]] in search of him.[[#References|13]]

They came upon the traitor called [[Wormtongue]] and questioned him. The terrified man told them everything he knew; that Gandalf had passed through Rohan, where the Shire was, and even that Saruman had lied to them. The Witch-king spared Wormtongue’s life, foreseeing that Wormtongue would bring ruin to Saruman. He divided his wraiths into four pairs, and went with the swiftest to [[Minhiriath]]. Along the way they captured several spies of Saruman, and found to their delight charts and maps of the Shire. They sent along the spy to [[Bree]], warning them that they now belonged to Mordor, not Saruman.[[#References|13]]

They came to [[Sarn Ford]], but the [[Dúnedain]] [[Rangers of the North|Rangers]] prevented them from crossing. They sent for their great captain, the chieftain [[Aragorn|Aragorn II]], who alone could well resist the wraiths, but he was away, and the Ringwraiths captured the ford and killed many of the Rangers.[[#References|13]] The Witch-king sent three Ringwraiths under Khamûl into the Shire while he went east with the others.[[#References|4]] But they had come too late: the Ring had moved on in the hands of a hobbit, [[Frodo Baggins]].

===Pursuit of the Ring===
[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Fire on Weathertop.jpg|thumb|right|220px|''Fire on Weathertop'' by [[Ted Nasmith]].]]Khamûl was unsuccessful, but brought word from the spy they had spared in Bree. The man had witnessed a vanishing act on Frodo's part, and had organized an attack on the inn. The Witch-king guessed that Frodo would head east, and sent four wraiths to [[Weathertop]], the ruins of the tower he had destroyed long ago. He went south along the [[Greenway]] and discovered nothing. Gandalf followed them, but the Witch-king let him slip ahead, and attacked him on Weathertop. Gandalf escaped at dawn, and again the Witch-king divided his force and sent four after the wizard.

The Ring walked almost right into his hands. The captain of the Dúnedain, Aragorn II, had become the guide of the hobbits, and led them to Weathertop, where they were spotted and attacked. The Witch-king advanced on Frodo, and the terrified hobbit put on the Ring, seeing them as they truly were. When Frodo resisted, and invoked the name of [[Varda|Elbereth]], the Witch-king stabbed Frodo in the shoulder. The tip of his blade broke off and sent poison through the hobbit’s veins. Then Aragorn counterattacked with flaming brands. The Witch-king fled at his mighty presence, confident that the poison of the blade would do its work and bend Frodo's will to his purpose. But he was shaken by the encounter; Gandalf and Aragorn were people of immense power, and even the Ring-bearer, who was not an especially strong person, had dared to resist him. He feared that Frodo might have some elvish power. Moreover, he knew that Frodo’s weapon, a [[blade of Westernesse]], was wrought for his undoing and if it had struck him would have done him damage. He was thus distressed, and Aragorn, Frodo, and their little company eluded him.[[Image:Ted Nasmith - The Attack of the Wraiths.jpg|thumb|left|200px|''Attack of the Wraiths'' by [[Ted Nasmith]].]]

He resumed the pursuit quickly, though, and found the Khamûl had been driven from the [[Last Bridge]] by his old enemy [[Glorfindel]]. The Witch-king, who only had one companion with him, was likewise unable to confront him openly. They regrouped and went south, rejoining with the other four. They managed to pick up the trail of the company of the Ring, and despite hindrance from Glorfindel and Aragorn managed to pursue Frodo alone on [[Asfaloth]]. The pursuit came to the [[Ford of Bruinen]], and there Frodo compelled the horse to stop. The Witch-king saw his defiance and laughed, breaking his sword with a movement of his hand. But the waters of the [[Bruinen]] rose at [[Elrond]]'s command, sweeping the Nine downstream.[[#References|14]]

===War of the Ring===
The Witch-king took the only surviving horse back to [[Mordor]], arriving there in December. He then sent aid to the other eight Nazgûl, and they returned in secret. In [[Minas Morgul]] they prepared for a grand invasion of [[Gondor]] at the order of their master. The Witch-king was given by Sauron added "demonic" force.[[#References|15]] On March 10, [[Third Age 3019|3019]], the signal was given and Minas Morgul was emptied. The Witch-king rode at the head of the army in black, upon a black horse, as he had in the time of the wars of Angmar. As the Witch-king passed out of the gates of the dead city, he sensed the presence of Frodo. He was disturbed, but continued on through Ithilien.

With the Witch-king in command, [[Osgiliath]] soon fell.[[#References|16]] The defeat was attributed to his superior numbers, and his terrible presence which made all hearts to quail. The [[Rammas Echor]] was breached, and the [[Pelennor Fields]] were overrun. Other wraiths he sent out mounted on [[Fell Beasts]]. [[Faramir]], [[Ruling Steward|Steward]] [[Denethor II]]'s son, was wounded by a dart and the [[Black Breath|black breath]], but his company was saved by a sortie. Then the Witch-king laid siege to [[Minas Tirith]] itself, sending fire and the heads of the dead Gondorians into the city via catapults. Then he launched the assault.

[[Image:Angus McBride - Gandalf facing Witch-king.gif|thumb|right|220px|''Gandalf facing the Witch-king'' by [[Angus McBride]].]]He sent [[Grond (battering ram)|Grond]] out first, accompanying it in person so as to be the first to enter the city. Three times Grond struck the gate, empowered by the sorcery of the Witch-king. The third time the Gate shattered in a flash of fire. The Witch-king passed into Minas Tirith, but was confronted by Gandalf on [[Shadowfax]]. Gandalf forbade him entry, but the Witch-king laughed and put on a show of power.

{{quote|The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there cam a deadly laughter. 'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', [[The Siege of Gondor]]}}

But as Gandalf stood resolute, the [[Rohirrim]] came. The Witch-king departed, mounting a fell beast and descending upon King [[Théoden]] who led the attack. [[Snowmane]], the King's horse, collapsed with a dart in the side, and Théoden was crushed beneath him. But the rider [[Dernhelm]] defied the Witch-king. The Witch-king threatened Dernhelm with a terrible death, but the rider revealed that she was a woman, [[Éowyn]], and the Witch-king remembered the words of Glorfindel. The Witch-king hesitated, but then moved forward. Éowyn decapitated the fell beast, but the Witch-king rose and struck her down with his mace, breaking her shield-arm. Then the hobbit [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]] stabbed him in the sinew of his leg with the [[blade of Westernesse]], as he drew back to kill the woman. Then Éowyn rose and drove her sword through where his invisible head was, and the sword broke as his crown toppled. The Witch-king gave a great and horrible wail, and perished at last.[[#References|17]][[Image:Michael Kaluta - Eowyn and the Witch-King of Angmar.jpg|left|220px|thumb|''Éowyn and the Witch-king'' by [[Michael Kaluta]].]]

So the prophecy of Glorfindel was fulfilled, for the Witch-king did not fall at the hands of a man, but at the hands of a woman and a hobbit. With his death, and the coming of Aragorn II in the black ships, the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]] was lost.

==Early Life==

The Witch-king's true name is never given, and therefore among [[Tolkien fandom|Tolkien fans]], the Witch-king is often simply called ''Angmar'', after the name of the realm he founded and led. Many fans also identify him as one of the three [[Black Númenóreans]] Tolkien stated had become Nazgûl, or possibly [[Isilmo]], a Númenórean prince and father of Tar-Minastir. In the now defunct [[Middle-earth Role Playing]] game, he was named ''Er-Murazor'', a Númenórean prince, though this is strictly [[Canon|non-canonical]] and does not appear outside of the role playing material. It is also a popular belief among some fans, that the Witch-king was not dead as Éowyn had not an enchanted sword, and cite the passage that says that his wail was not heard again ''In this age of the earth''. But other Tolkien scholars say that although the Witch-king's return at an unspecified time in the future is possible, another possible solution is that Merry's stroke destroyed the Witch-king's invulnerability allowing Éowyn's non-magic blade to end his existence forever. Also, because of the perishing of [[the One Ring]], the nine other rings which kept the Nazgûl would probably have lost their power.

==Names==
* Witch-king of Angmar - "Witch" most likely coming from his background in sorcery, and "king" after his establishment of the realm of Angmar in 1300.
* Witch-lord of Angmar - A variant of the above title.
* Lord of the Nazgûl
* Lord of the Ringwraiths
* Chieftain of the Ringwraiths
* Lord of the Nine Riders
* King of the Nine Riders
* Wraith-lord
* Wraith-king
* High Nazgûl
* Lord of Morgul
* Morgul-lord
* King of Minas Morgul
* Black Captain
* Captain of Despair
* [[Dwimmerlaik]]
* Lord of Carrion

==Etymology==
While in modern English ''witch'' has mostly female connotations, referring to a hag or sorceress, in middle-English ''wicche'' had no gender distinction; the preference of ''witch'' for female persons (the males referred more usually as ''wizzards'') evolved later through the centuries.

Tolkien uses the archaic, gender-unspecific meaning of the term; of course, the word [[Wizard]] refers exclusively to the [[Maiar]] [[Istari]].

==Inspirations==
An undead witch-king named ''Þráinn'' appears in ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrómundar_saga_Gripssonar Hrómundar saga Gripssonar]''. It is possible that this was Tolkien's source of inspiration.

The prophecy that the Witch-king would fall "not by the hand of man" and the fulfillment of the prophecy occurring as a technicality (being slain by a hobbit and a woman) bears a striking resemblance to the prophecy regarding the title character's death in Shakespeare's Macbeth, where it was foretold that Macbeth will be slain "not by man born of woman" and is then killed by Mcduff, born by caesarian section. Tolkien it seems was familiar with the play, having reputedly taken inspiration for the Last March of the Ents from the same source (See article ''[[Ents]]'' for details).

==Portrayal in Adaptations ==
<center><gallery>
Image:Witch-king from PJ's LotR - Armored.jpeg|<center>The Witch-king in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]</center>
Image:Witchking ea rotk.jpg|<center>In ''[[EA's The Return of the King]]'', with different helmet.</center>
Image:The Lord of the Rings online Shadows of Angmar - Witch-king 1.jpg|<center>The Witch-king in [[The Lord of the Rings Online]].</center>
</gallery></center>

'''1956: ''[[The Lord of the Rings (1955 radio series)]]'':'''
:The Black Captain is played by [[Felix Felton]].<ref name="RT1727">Radio Times, Volume 133, No. 1727, [[December 14]], [[1956]]</ref>

'''1978: ''[[Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings]]'':'''
:The Witch-king is shown with no distinction from the other Ringwraiths; all are robed in brown and black, and none seem to be able to talk clearly.

'''1980: ''[[Rankin/Bass' The Return of the King]]'':'''
:The Witch-king is portrayed as a humanoid figure with no head. Red eyes glare under a golden crown. His dialogue is more or less as in the books, albeit in a strange and somewhat unfitting electronic voice. After a stab from behind by Merry, Éowyn beheads him. It is worthy of note that the Witch-king is seen with the [[Red Eye]] of [[Barad-dûr]] as his emblem and faction, rather than the grim moon of [[Minas Morgul]].

'''1981: ''[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|BBC Radio's The Lord of the Rings]]'':'''
:The role of the Witch-king is expanded with material from ''[[The Hunt for the Ring]]''. He is the second speaking character in the series: he is the one who captures [[Gollum]], though he is not identified as such until the credits. [[Philip Voss]] provided the voice for the Witch-king.

'''2002: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|Vivendi's The Fellowship of the Ring]]'':'''
:The Witch-king is shown without distinction of the other Nazgûl.

'''2001-3: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy]]'':'''
:The Lord of the Nazgûl is only named the "Witch-king of Angmar" in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]]''. In that film, there is no mention of [[Glorfindel]]'s prophecy; there is only a claim among the enemy that "no man can kill" the Witch-king. Like the other Nazgûl, he is depicted as a humanoid figure shrouded in a hooded black robe; his only distinguishing feature is a mask-like spiked helmet with a huge mouth. His first mention is when [[Gandalf]] tells [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] while in Minas Tirith that the Dark Lord has not yet revealed his greatest servant: the Witch-king, the one that "stabbed Frodo on Weathertop".

:During the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]], the Witch-king's army uses the ram [[Grond (battering-ram)|Grond]] to break through the city gates early in the battle (after the failure of a lesser ram), and the Witch-king is not present to confront Gandalf as he is in the book. The confrontation takes place later, as Pippin and Gandalf race to the tombs to save [[Faramir]], and the Witch-king intercepts them. Unlike in the book, this meeting decisively favors the Witch-king, who breaks Gandalf's staff and throws the wizard to the ground before leaving to deal with the arrival of the [[Rohirrim]]. Gandalf's face shows obvious fear in this scene, in comparison to the resolution (for "victory or death") in the books.

:The Witch-king's destruction on the battlefield occurs with less dialogue than in the book, and the weapons used to destroy him are both mundane: Merry's sword is not a [[Daggers of Westernesse|dagger]] from the [[Barrow-downs]], but rather the Rohirric sword that Théoden had as a child.

:Eight actors are known to have played some part of the Witch-king.
# An unidentified extra portrayed the "King of Men" in the prologue. He was chosen to be the Witch-king simply because he was the smallest of the nine.
# [[Shane Rangi]] did the horse chase.
# [[Fran Walsh]] provided the "Ringwraith scream".
# Effects technician Ben Price played the Witch-king in "many scenes"<ref>http://www.decipher.com/content/2004/07/072904lotrwetaprops.html</ref>
# [[Brent McIntyre]] is officially credited as the Witch-king in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring|The Fellowship of the Ring]]''. He stabbed Frodo.
# [[Lawrence Makoare]] filled the robe of the Witch-king in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]]''.
# [[Mark Ferguson]] filled the heavy armoured costume when Makoare felt claustrophobic.<ref>http://www.markferguson.net/articles/interview_Nautilus20.html</ref>
# [[Andy Serkis]] provided the voice of the Witch-king. It was layered thrice to give it a ghastly effect.

'''2003: ''[[EA's The Return of the King]]'':'''
:The Witch-king's role and voice are similar to that of the film, but his appearance is different. An early helmet design, that had been removed from the film because it resembled [[Sauron]]'s helm too much, was used here, presumably because there was no time to make a new character model.

'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''
:The Witch-king is a non-playable character that the player sees in various scenes.

==See Also==
* '''[[:Category:Images of the Witch-king|Images of the Witch-king]]'''
* [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]]

{{references}}
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]], p. 289
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Akallabêth]], p. 267, [[Ballantine Books]] p. 320
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]]'', p. 20
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix B]]
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix A]] (iii), [[Houghton Mifflin]] p. 320
* ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Heirs of Elendil]], entry for [[Malvegil]], [[HarperCollins]] p. 193-194
* ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Heirs of Elendil]], entry for [[Argeleb I]], [[HarperCollins]] p. 194
* ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Heirs of Elendil]], entry for [[Arveleg I]], [[HarperCollins]] p. 194
* ''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', [[The Palantíri]], note 16, [[Houghton Mifflin]] p. 413
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix A]] (iii), [[Houghton Mifflin]] p. 321-322
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix A]] (iv), [[Houghton Mifflin]] p. 331-332
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix A]] (iv), [[Houghton Mifflin]] p. 333
* ''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', [[The Hunt for the Ring]], [[Houghton Mifflin]] p. 338-341
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', [[Flight to the Ford]]
* ''[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]'', [[Letter 210]], p. 272
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'', [[The Siege of Gondor]]
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'', [[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]
[[Category:Featured Articles]]
[[Category:Nazgûl]]
[[de:Der Hexenkönig von Angmar]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/nazgul/roi-sorcier]]
[[fi:Noitakuningas]]

The Witchking of Angmar

2011-03-11T16:12:38Z

Eldarion Telcontar: redirect

#REDIRECT [[Witch-king]]

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2011-03-11T16:09:40Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

== List of nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

* 18 quotes from The Fellowship of the Ring
* 25 quotes from The Two Towers
* 37 quotes from The Return of The King

=== The Fellowship of the Ring ===

{{quote|'Proudfeet!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavillion. His name, of course, was Proudfoot, and well merited; his feet were large, exceptionally furry, and both were on the table.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Shadow of the Past]]"}}
----
{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Seek for the Sword that was broken: In Imladris it dwells; There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells. There shall be shown a token That Doom is near at hand, For Isildur's Bane shall waken, And the Halfling forth shall stand.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|We must take a hard road, a road unforeseen. There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril — to Mordor. We must send the Ring to the Fire.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Fly you fools!" he cried, and was gone.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}
----
{{quote|Memory is not what the heart desires. That is only a mirror, be it clear as Kheled-zâram. Or so says the heart of Gimli the Dwarf. Elves may see things otherwise. Indeed I have heard that for them memory is more like to the waking world than to a dream. Not so for Dwarves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Farewell to Lórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Breaking of the Fellowship]]"}}

=== The Two Towers ===

{{quote|Gondor! Gondor, between the Mountains and the Sea! West Wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree Fell like bright rain in gardens of the Kings of old. O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold! O Gondor, Gondor! Shall Men behold the Silver Tree, Or West Wind blow again between the Mountains and the Sea?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of the shadows the hobbits peeped, gazing back down the slope:little furtive figures that in the dim light looked like elf-children in the deeps of time peering out of the Wild Wood in wonder at their first dawn.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Uruk-hai]]"}}
----
{{quote|Do not be hasty, that is my motto.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Learn now the lore of Living Creatures! First name the four, the free peoples: Eldest of all, the elf-children; Dwarf the delver, dark are his houses; Ent the earthborn, old as mountains; Man the mortal, master of horses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|To Isengard! Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone; Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone, We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door; For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war! To land of gloom with tramp of doom, with roll of drum, we come, we come; To Isengard with doom we come! With doom we come, with doom we come!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Yes, I am white now," said Gandalf. "Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Dark Lord has Nine. But we have One, mightier than they: the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss, and they shall fear him. We will go where he leads.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|We are all friends here. Or should be; for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward, if we quarrel.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise now, arise, Riders of Théoden! Dire deeds awake, dark is it eastward. Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded! Forth Eorlingas!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|"So that is the King of Rohan," said Pippin in an undertone. "A fine old fellow. Very polite."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Road to Isengard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Often does hatred hurt itself!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Voice of Saruman]]"}}
----
{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
----
{{quote|Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Shadowfax tossed his head and cried aloud, as if a trumpet had summoned him to battle. Then he sprang forward. Fire flew from his feet; night rushed over him.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Taming of Sméagol]]"}}
----
{{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace-all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}
----
{{quote|"For myself," said Faramir, "I would see the White Tree in flower again in the courts of the kings, and the Silver Crown return, and Minas Tirith in peace: Minas Anor again as of old, full of light, high and fair, beautiful as a queen among other queens."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|Who can now hold the fords when the King of the Nine Riders comes? And other armies will come. I am too late. All is lost. I tarried on the way. All is lost. Even if my errand is performed, no one will ever know. There will be no one I can tell. It will be in vain.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|I wonder if we shall ever be put into songs or tales. We're in one, or course; but I mean: put into words, you know, told by the fireside, or read out of a great big book with red and black letters, years and years afterwards. And people will say: "Let's hear about Frodo and the Ring!" And they'll say: "Yes, that's one of my favourite stories. Frodo was very brave. wasn't he, dad?" "Yes, my boy, the famousest of the hobbits, and that's saying a lot."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}

=== The Return of The King ===

{{quote|Here do I swear fealty and service to Gondor, and to the Lord and Steward of the realm, to speak and to be silent, to do and to let be, to come and to go, in need or plenty, in peace or war, in living or dying, from this hour henceforth, until my lord release me, or death take me, or the world end.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]"}}
----
{{quote|I will not forget it, nor fail to reward that which is given: fealty with love, valour with honour, oath-breaking with vengeance.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]"}}
----
{{quote|The rule of no realm is mine, neither of Gondor nor any other, great or small. But all worthy things that are in peril as the world now stands, those are my care. And for my part, I shall not wholly fail of my task, though Gondor should perish, if anything passes through this night that can still grow fair or bear fruit and flower again in days to come. For I also am a steward. Did you not know?|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]"}}
----
{{quote|"What do you fear, lady?" he asked. "A cage," she said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Passing of the Grey Company]]"}}
----
{{quote|Such was the dark Dunharrow, the work of long-forgotten men. Their name was lost and no song or legend remembered it. For what purpose they had made this place, as a town or secret temple or a tomb of kings, none in Rohan could say. Here they laboured in the Dark Years; and now they had vanished, and only the old Púkel-men were left, still sitting at the turnings of the road.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Muster of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let us remember that a traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend. It can be so, sometimes.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Siege of Gondor]]"}}
----
{{quote|In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Siege of Gondor]]"}}
----
{{quote|And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the city, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn. And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns horn. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Siege of Gondor]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden! Fell deeds awake, fire and slaughter! spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered, a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|Then Merry heard the strangest of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|Over the field rang his clear voice calling: "Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!"|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and the chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|Few other griefs amid the ill chances of this world have more bitterness and shame for a man's heart than to behold the love of a lady so fair and brave that cannot be returned.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is the way of my people to use light words at such times and say less than they mean. We fear to say too much. It robs us of the right words when a jest is out of place.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Master Meriadoc," said Aragorn, "if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called ''westmansweed'' by the vulgar, and ''galenas'' by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I. For I have not slept in such a bed as this, since I rode from Dunharrow, nor eaten since the dark before dawn."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is best to love first what you are fitted to love, I suppose: you must start somewhere and have some roots, and the soil of the Shire is deep. Still there are things deeper and higher; and not a gaffer could tend his garden in what he calls peace but for them, whether he knows about them or not.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gloin's son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire, nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Black Gate Opens]]"}}
----
{{quote|Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dûr. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Tower of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|In western lands beneath the Sun The flowers may rise in Spring, The trees may bud, the waters run, The merry finches sing. Or there maybe 'tis cloudless night And swaying beeches bear The Elven-stars as jewels white Amid their branching hair.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Tower of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Land of Shadow]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I have come," he said. "But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!" And suddenly, as he set it on his finger, he vanished from Sam's sight.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Mount Doom (chapter)|Mount Doom]]"}}
----
{{quote|But do you remember Gandalf's words: Even Gollum may have something yet to do? But for him, Sam, I could not have destroyed the Ring. The Quest would have been in vain, even at the bitter end. So let us forgive him! For the Quest is achieved and now all is over. I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things, Sam.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Mount Doom (chapter)|Mount Doom]]"}}
----
{{quote|"A great Shadow has departed," said Gandalf, and then he laughed, and the sound was like music, or like water in a parched land; and has he listened the thought came to Sam that he had not heard laughter, the pure sound of merriment, for days upon days without count. It fell upon his ears like the echo of all the joys he had ever known.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Field of Cormallen]]"}}
----
{{quote|To the Sea, to the Sea! The white gulls are crying, The wind is blowing, and the white foam is flying. West, west away, the round sun is falling. Grey ship, grey ship, do you hear them calling. The voices of my people that have gone before me? I will leave, I will leave the woods that bore me; For our days are ending and our years failing. I will pass the wide waters lonely sailing. Long are the waves on the Last Shore falling, Sweet are the voices in the Lost Isle calling, In Eressëa, in Elvenhome that no man can discover, Where the leaves fall not: land of my people for ever!|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Field of Cormallen]]"}}
----
{{quote|But when Aragorn arose all that beheld him gazed in silence, for it seemed to them that he was revealed to them now for the first time. Tall as the sea-kings of old, he stood above all that were near: ancient of days he seemed and yet in the flower of manhood; and wisdom sat upon his brow, and strength and healing were in his hands, and a light was about him.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Steward and the King]]"}}
----
{{quote|This is your realm, and the heart of the greater realm that shall be. The Third Age of the world is ended, and the new age is begun; and it is your task to order its beginning and to preserve what may be preserved. For though much has been saved, much must now pass away.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Steward and the King]]"}}
----
{{quote|I am the daughter of Elrond. I shall not go with him now when he departs to the Havens; for mine is the choice of Lúthien, and as she so have I chosen, both the sweet and the bitter.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Many Partings]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day's rising he rode singing in the sun, sword unsheathing. Hope he rekindled, and in hope ended; over death, over dread, over doom lifted out of loss, out of life, unto long glory.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Many Partings]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Road goes ever on and on Out from the door where it began. Now far ahead the Road has gone, Let others follow it who can! Let them a journey new begin, But I at last with weary feet Will turn towards the lighted inn, My evening-rest and sleep to meet.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Many Partings]]"}}
----
{{quote|There is no real going back. Though I may come to the Shire, it will not seem the same; for I shall not be the same. I am wounded with knife, sting, and tooth, and a long burden. Where shall I find rest?|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Homeward Bound]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}
----
{{quote|You have robbed my revenge of sweetness, and now I must go hence in bitterness, in debt to your mercy. I hate it and you! Well, I go and I will trouble you no more. But do not expect me to wish you health and long life. You will have neither. But that is not my doing. I merely foretell.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}
----
{{quote|I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them. But you are my heir: all that I had and might have had I leave to you.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Grey Havens]]"}}
----
{{quote|Well, here at last, dear friends, on the shores of the Sea comes the end of our fellowship in Middle-earth. Go in peace! I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Grey Havens]]"}}
----
{{quote|But Sam turned to Bywater, and so came back up the Hill, as day was ending once more. And he went on, and there was yellow light, and fire within; and the evening meal was ready, and he was expected. And Rose drew him in, and set him in his chair, and put little Elanor upon his lap. He drew a deep breath. "Well, I'm back," he said.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Grey Havens]]"}}

=== The Hobbit ===

{{Quote|I have chosen Mr. Baggins and that ought to be enough for all of you. If I say he is a Burglar, a Burglar he is, or will be when the time comes. There is a lot more in him than you guess, and a deal more than he has any idea of himself.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[An Unexpected Party]]"}}
----
{{Quote|If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[The Return Journey]]"}}

=== The Silmarillion ===

{{Quote|There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made. And he spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before him, and he was glad.|{{S|I}}}}
----
{{Quote|Fëanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant. Finarfin was the fairest, and the most wise of heart.|{{S|5}}}}
----
{{Quote|Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue.|{{S|9}}}}
----
{{Quote|Last of all Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed; and it is sung that the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered, and each time that he slew Húrin cried 'Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!' Seventy times he uttered that cry; but they took him at last alive.|{{S|20}}}}
----
{{Quote|The Nazgûl were they; the Ringwraiths, the Enemy's most terribly servants; darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.|{{S|V}}}}

=== Unfinished Tales ===

{{quote|When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth.|''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', "[[The Quest of Erebor]]"}}

=== Comments ===
I'm not sure where to place this, but I'll put it here. I think the balance of the overall set of quotes is too far in favour of ''[[The Lord of the Rings|TLOTR]]'', as I think we should have more from other publications, especially ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Silmarillion]]''. What does everyone else think? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

:I agree. But it's just because I started with quotes from TLOTR. When I'm finished with that I will look for some from the other books. We certainly shouldn't stop when we have 52 quotes but should keep finding new ones until we have enough from every important book. And if you have more great quotes like our present FQ you could post them. --[[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 00:15, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2011-03-11T12:44:27Z

Eldarion Telcontar: added some more quotes, we have 80 now, need more from The Hobbit, Sil and Unfinished Tales..

== List of nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

* 18 quotes from The Fellowship of the Ring
* 25 quotes from The Two Towers
* 37 quotes from The Return of The King

=== The Fellowship of the Ring ===

{{quote|'Proudfeet!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavillion. His name, of course, was Proudfoot, and well merited; his feet were large, exceptionally furry, and both were on the table.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Shadow of the Past]]"}}
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{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
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{{quote|Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Seek for the Sword that was broken: In Imladris it dwells; There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells. There shall be shown a token That Doom is near at hand, For Isildur's Bane shall waken, And the Halfling forth shall stand.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|We must take a hard road, a road unforeseen. There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril — to Mordor. We must send the Ring to the Fire.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Fly you fools!" he cried, and was gone.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}
----
{{quote|Memory is not what the heart desires. That is only a mirror, be it clear as Kheled-zâram. Or so says the heart of Gimli the Dwarf. Elves may see things otherwise. Indeed I have heard that for them memory is more like to the waking world than to a dream. Not so for Dwarves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Farewell to Lórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Breaking of the Fellowship]]"}}

=== The Two Towers ===

{{quote|Gondor! Gondor, between the Mountains and the Sea! West Wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree Fell like bright rain in gardens of the Kings of old. O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold! O Gondor, Gondor! Shall Men behold the Silver Tree, Or West Wind blow again between the Mountains and the Sea?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of the shadows the hobbits peeped, gazing back down the slope:little furtive figures that in the dim light looked like elf-children in the deeps of time peering out of the Wild Wood in wonder at their first dawn.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Uruk-hai]]"}}
----
{{quote|Do not be hasty, that is my motto.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Learn now the lore of Living Creatures! First name the four, the free peoples: Eldest of all, the elf-children; Dwarf the delver, dark are his houses; Ent the earthborn, old as mountains; Man the mortal, master of horses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|To Isengard! Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone; Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone, We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door; For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war! To land of gloom with tramp of doom, with roll of drum, we come, we come; To Isengard with doom we come! With doom we come, with doom we come!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Yes, I am white now," said Gandalf. "Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Dark Lord has Nine. But we have One, mightier than they: the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss, and they shall fear him. We will go where he leads.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|We are all friends here. Or should be; for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward, if we quarrel.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise now, arise, Riders of Théoden! Dire deeds awake, dark is it eastward. Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded! Forth Eorlingas!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
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{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
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{{quote|"So that is the King of Rohan," said Pippin in an undertone. "A fine old fellow. Very polite."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Road to Isengard]]"}}
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{{quote|Often does hatred hurt itself!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Voice of Saruman]]"}}
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{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
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{{quote|Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Shadowfax tossed his head and cried aloud, as if a trumpet had summoned him to battle. Then he sprang forward. Fire flew from his feet; night rushed over him.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Taming of Sméagol]]"}}
----
{{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace-all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}
----
{{quote|"For myself," said Faramir, "I would see the White Tree in flower again in the courts of the kings, and the Silver Crown return, and Minas Tirith in peace: Minas Anor again as of old, full of light, high and fair, beautiful as a queen among other queens."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|Who can now hold the fords when the King of the Nine Riders comes? And other armies will come. I am too late. All is lost. I tarried on the way. All is lost. Even if my errand is performed, no one will ever know. There will be no one I can tell. It will be in vain.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|I wonder if we shall ever be put into songs or tales. We're in one, or course; but I mean: put into words, you know, told by the fireside, or read out of a great big book with red and black letters, years and years afterwards. And people will say: "Let's hear about Frodo and the Ring!" And they'll say: "Yes, that's one of my favourite stories. Frodo was very brave. wasn't he, dad?" "Yes, my boy, the famousest of the hobbits, and that's saying a lot."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}

=== The Return of The King ===

{{quote|Here do I swear fealty and service to Gondor, and to the Lord and Steward of the realm, to speak and to be silent, to do and to let be, to come and to go, in need or plenty, in peace or war, in living or dying, from this hour henceforth, until my lord release me, or death take me, or the world end.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]"}}
----
{{quote|I will not forget it, nor fail to reward that which is given: fealty with love, valour with honour, oath-breaking with vengeance.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Minas Tirith (chapter)|Minas Tirith]]"}}
----
{{quote|The rule of no realm is mine, neither of Gondor nor any other, great or small. But all worthy things that are in peril as the world now stands, those are my care. And for my part, I shall not wholly fail of my task, though Gondor should perish, if anything passes through this night that can still grow fair or bear fruit and flower again in days to come. For I also am a steward. Did you not know?|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|"What do you fear, lady?" he asked. "A cage," she said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Passing of the Grey Company]]"}}
----
{{quote|Such was the dark Dunharrow, the work of long-forgotten men. Their name was lost and no song or legend remembered it. For what purpose they had made this place, as a town or secret temple or a tomb of kings, none in Rohan could say. Here they laboured in the Dark Years. and now they had vanished, and only the old Púkel-men were left, still sitting at the turnings of the road.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Muster of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let us remember that a traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend. It can be so, sometimes.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Siege of Gondor]]"}}
----
{{quote|In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Siege of Gondor]]"}}
----
{{quote|And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the city, a cock crowed. shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of war nor of wizardry, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn. And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns horns, in dark mindolluins sides they dimly echoed. great horns of the north wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Siege of Gondor]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden! Fell deeds awake, fire and slaughter! spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered, a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|Then Merry heard the strangest of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|Over the field rang his clear voice calling: "Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!"|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and the chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|Few other griefs amid the ill chances of this world have more bitterness and shame for a man's heart than to behold the love of a lady so fair and brave that cannot be returned.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is the way of my people to use light words at such times and say less than they mean. We fear to say too much. It robs us of the right words when a jest is out of place.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Master Meriadoc," said Aragorn, "if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called ''westmansweed'' by the vulgar, and ''galenas'' by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I. For I have not slept in such a bed as this, since I rode from Dunharrow, nor eaten since the dark before dawn."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is best to love first what you are fitted to love, I suppose: you must start somewhere and have some roots, and the soil of the Shire is deep. Still there are things deeper and higher; and not a gaffer could tend his garden in what he calls peace but for them, whether he knows about them or not.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gloin's son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire, nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Black Gate Opens]]"}}
----
{{quote|Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dûr. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Tower of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|In western lands beneath the Sun The flowers may rise in Spring, The trees may bud, the waters run, The merry finches sing. Or there maybe 'tis cloudless night And swaying beeches bear The Elven-stars as jewels white Amid their branching hair.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Tower of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Land of Shadow]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I have come," he said. "But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!" And suddenly, as he set it on his finger, he vanished from Sam's sight.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Mount Doom (chapter)|Mount Doom]]"}}
----
{{quote|But do you remember Gandalf's words: Even Gollum may have something yet to do? But for him, Sam, I could not have destroyed the Ring. The Quest would have been in vain, even at the bitter end. So let us forgive him! For the Quest is achieved and now all is over. I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things, Sam.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Mount Doom (chapter)|Mount Doom]]"}}
----
{{quote|"A great Shadow has departed," said Gandalf, and then he laughed, and the sound was like music, or like water in a parched land; and has he listened the thought came to Sam that he had not heard laughter, the pure sound of merriment, for days upon days without count. It fell upon his ears like the echo of all the joys he had ever known.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Field of Cormallen]]"}}
----
{{quote|To the Sea, to the Sea! The white gulls are crying, The wind is blowing, and the white foam is flying. West, west away, the round sun is falling. Grey ship, grey ship, do you hear them calling. The voices of my people that have gone before me? I will leave, I will leave the woods that bore me; For our days are ending and our years failing. I will pass the wide waters lonely sailing. Long are the waves on the Last Shore falling, Sweet are the voices in the Lost Isle calling, In Eressëa, in Elvenhome that no man can discover, Where the leaves fall not: land of my people for ever!|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Field of Cormallen]]"}}
----
{{quote|But when Aragorn arose all that beheld him gazed in silence, for it seemed to them that he was revealed to them now for the first time. Tall as the sea-kings of old, he stood above all that were near: ancient of days he seemed and yet in the flower of manhood; and wisdom sat upon his brow, and strength and healing were in his hands, and a light was about him.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Steward and the King]]"}}
----
{{quote|This is your realm, and the heart of the greater realm that shall be. The Third Age of the world is ended, and the new age is begun; and it is your task to order its beginning and to preserve what may be preserved. For though much has been saved, much must now pass away.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Steward and the King]]"}}
----
{{quote|I am the daughter of Elrond. I shall not go with him now when he departs to the Havens; for mine is the choice of Lúthien, and as she so have I chosen, both the sweet and the bitter.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Many Partings]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day's rising he rode singing in the sun, sword unsheathing. Hope he rekindled, and in hope ended; over death, over dread, over doom lifted out of loss, out of life, unto long glory.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Many Partings]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Road goes ever on and on Out from the door where it began. Now far ahead the Road has gone, Let others follow it who can! Let them a journey new begin, But I at last with weary feet Will turn towards the lighted inn, My evening-rest and sleep to meet.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Many Partings]]"}}
----
{{quote|There is no real going back. Though I may come to the Shire, it will not seem the same; for I shall not be the same. I am wounded with knife, sting, and tooth, and a long burden. Where shall I find rest?|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[Homeward Bound]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}
----
{{quote|You have robbed my revenge of sweetness, and now I must go hence in bitterness, in debt to your mercy. I hate it and you! Well, I go and I will trouble you no more. But do not expect me to wish you health and long life. You will have neither. But that is not my doing. I merely foretell.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}
----
{{quote|I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them. But you are my heir: all that I had and might have had I leave to you.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Grey Havens]]"}}
----
{{quote|Well, here at last, dear friends, on the shores of the Sea comes the end of our fellowship in Middle-earth. Go in peace! I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Grey Havens]]"}}
----
{{quote|But Sam turned to Bywater, and so came back up the Hill, as day was ending once more. And he went on, and there was yellow light, and fire within; and the evening meal was ready, and he was expected. And Rose drew him in, and set him in his chair, and put little Elanor upon his lap. He drew a deep breath. "Well, I'm back," he said.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Grey Havens]]"}}

=== The Hobbit ===

{{Quote|I have chosen Mr. Baggins and that ought to be enough for all of you. If I say he is a Burglar, a Burglar he is, or will be when the time comes. There is a lot more in him than you guess, and a deal more than he has any idea of himself.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[An Unexpected Party]]"}}
----
{{Quote|If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[The Return Journey]]"}}

=== The Silmarillion ===

{{Quote|There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made. And he spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before him, and he was glad.|{{S|I}}}}
----
{{Quote|Fëanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant. Finarfin was the fairest, and the most wise of heart.|{{S|5}}}}
----
{{Quote|Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue.|{{S|9}}}}
----
{{Quote|Last of all Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed; and it is sung that the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered, and each time that he slew Húrin cried 'Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!' Seventy times he uttered that cry; but they took him at last alive.|{{S|20}}}}
----
{{Quote|The Nazgûl were they; the Ringwraiths, the Enemy's most terribly servants; darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.|{{S|V}}}}

=== Unfinished Tales ===

{{quote|When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth.|''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', "[[The Quest of Erebor]]"}}

=== Comments ===
I'm not sure where to place this, but I'll put it here. I think the balance of the overall set of quotes is too far in favour of ''[[The Lord of the Rings|TLOTR]]'', as I think we should have more from other publications, especially ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Silmarillion]]''. What does everyone else think? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

:I agree. But it's just because I started with quotes from TLOTR. When I'm finished with that I will look for some from the other books. We certainly shouldn't stop when we have 52 quotes but should keep finding new ones until we have enough from every important book. And if you have more great quotes like our present FQ you could post them. --[[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 00:15, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway:Meetings

2011-03-08T17:59:29Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

'''Tolkien Gateway: Meetings''' is an attempt which hopes to bring editors of the encyclopaedia into a monthly chat to discuss the progress as well as the future of the site. Meetings will take place on our IRC network and you can check the time of the meeting by clicking on a link to the next meeting below. Before the meeting, users can give their ideas for discussion by clicking on the link to the next meeting below. For those unable to attend a meeting, you will still be allowed to write down thoughts prior to the meeting which will be brought up by someone else. Transcripts will also be available after the meeting for non-attendees to read.
==Current Meeting Time==
Each meeting will take place on the first Sunday of every new month.

<center>Sundays, 7pm UTC on [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|IRC]] Channel.</center>

{{meetings}}
==Upcoming Meetings==

==Previous Meetings==
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/6 March 2011‎|Sunday 6th March 2011]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/6 March 2011|Talk page]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/6 February 2011|Sunday 6th February 2011]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/6 February 2011|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/6 February 2011/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/2 January 2011|Sunday 2nd January 2011]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/2 January 2011|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/2 January 2011/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 December 2010|Sunday 5th December 2010]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 December 2010|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 December 2010/Transcript|Transcript]])
*Sunday 7th November 2010 - ''Not Held''
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/3 October 2010|Sunday 3rd October 2010]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/3 October 2010/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010|Sunday 5th September 2010]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 September 2010|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010/Transcript|Transcript]])
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/1 August 2010|Sunday 1st August 2010]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/1 August 2010|Talk page]])
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/25 July 2010|Sunday 25th July 2010]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/25 July 2010|Talk page]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/27 June 2010|Sunday 27th June 2010]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/27 June 2010|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/27 June 2010/Transcript|Transcript]])
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/13 April 2009|Monday 13th April 2009]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/13 April 2009|Talk page]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 April 2009|5th April 2009]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 April 2009|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/23 November 2008|23rd November 2008]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/23 November 2008|Talk page]])
*16th November 2008 - ''Meeting Cancelled''
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/9 November 2008|9th November 2008]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/9 November 2008|Talk page]])
*2nd November 2008 - ''Meeting Cancelled''
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/26 October 2008|26th October 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/26 October 2008|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/19 October 2008|19th October 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/19 October 2008|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/12 October 2008|12th October 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/12 October 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/12 October 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*5th October 2008 - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 October 2008|Talk page]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/28 September 2008|28th September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/28 September 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/28 September 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/21 September 2008|21st September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/21 September 2008|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/14 September 2008|14th September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/14 September 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/14 September 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/7 September 2008|7th September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/7 September 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/7 September 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/31 August 2008|31st August 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/31 August 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/31 August 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/24 August 2008|24th August 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/24 August 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/24 August 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/17 August 2008|17th August 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/17 August 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/17 August 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])

==Connecting==
To join the meetings, you will need to use an IRC client to access the correct server and channels. To do this, you can use an IRC client, or you can access it using the browser-based client, Mibbit:
*[http://widget.mibbit.com/?server=irc.tolkiengateway.net&channel=%23TolkienGateway%2C%23Wiki Mibbit] - Browser-based Client

There is a variety of different IRC clients available for you to use, more prominent ones include:
*[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/16/ Chatzilla] - As an add-on to Firefox.
*[http://xchat.org/ XChat] - Free, stand-alone application.
*[http://www.icechat.net/site/ IceChat] - Free, stand-alone application.
*[http://www.bersirc.org/index.php/home Bersirc] - Free, stand-alone application.
*[http://www.mirc.com/ mIRC] - Shareware.
*[http://colloquy.info/ Colloquy] - For Mac users.

After you have installed the IRC Client, you will need to set it up to access Tolkien Gateway IRC channels; the following information should be useful:
*'''Server:''' irc.tolkiengateway.net
*'''Port:''' 6667
*'''Channel:''' /join #Wiki

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway Meetings| ]]

User talk:Ederchil

2011-02-27T19:58:19Z

Eldarion Telcontar: question about FA

{{usertalk}}

{| align="right"
| __TOC__
|}
<center>
=Archive=
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]''' 
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]''' 
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''
=2011=
</center>


== My User Page ==

Hey Ederchil, I'm having some trouble coding a couple things on my user page and I wanted to know if you could help me out and let me know how I can fix them? So, I'm trying to get the picture of Eärendil centered under Legolas' quote, and also, how could I get the quote to the left of the image? Lastly, how can I get Aragorn's quote on Gondor to stay below the picture without using so many "br" codes for spacing (if there is a way)? Thank you!! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 19:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I'm trying to make a heading for my "Userboxes" area. I'd like it to go beneath that with the titles "Code" and "Userbox." How can I make that and post userboxes beneath each column with their code also displayed? Thanks again!! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 20:04, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

:Better? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:31, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

::Yeah, that helped a lot, thanks! But what of the userbox header? --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 21:46, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

== [[Eriador]] ==

Hey Ederchil, it has been over a year now since our last Featured Article change and [[Eriador]] has received four positive votes. Maybe you could vote on the article and with a bit of luck we have five votes then ;) -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 19:58, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway:Community Portal

2011-02-07T19:18:01Z

Eldarion Telcontar: update

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*Tolkien Gateway successfully held its [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/6 February 2011|seventeenth meeting]] on Sunday the 6th of February 2011.
*You can now join the Tolkien Gateway on Facebook! [http://www.facebook.com/shaungunner Mith] has set up a [http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=133015453387353 Facebook group for TG] in order to advertise the wiki to Facebook users; do join and invite others.
*[[User:Mith|Mith]] has been entrusted with the responsibility of adminship status. Good luck and congratulations, Mith!
*After two years of dedicated service [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] has been awarded bureaucrat status. Congratulations, Ederchil!
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*[[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|IRC Chat]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings|Meetings]]

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Here follows a list of policies which you should adhere to whilst editing:
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Policy|General Site Policy]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Standards]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Duplicate articles|Duplicate articles]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Deletion policy|Deletion Policy]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Spoilers|Spoiler Policy]]
*[[Canon]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Help</h2>
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:''Main Help Page: [[Help:Contents|Contents]]''
If you are new here and don't really know how you can contribute to this site, then please see our help articles located [[Help:Contents|here]]. It is recommended that you [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/w/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&type=signup create an account] although this is not required to edit pages. If you would like to test out our site, then please do so in our [[Tolkien Gateway:Sandbox|sandbox]]
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[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]

Tolkien Gateway:Meetings

2011-02-07T19:15:43Z

Eldarion Telcontar: update

'''Tolkien Gateway: Meetings''' is an attempt which hopes to bring editors of the encyclopaedia into a monthly chat to discuss the progress as well as the future of the site. Meetings will take place on our IRC network and you can check the time of the meeting by clicking on a link to the next meeting below. Before the meeting, users can give their ideas for discussion by clicking on the link to the next meeting below. For those unable to attend a meeting, you will still be allowed to write down thoughts prior to the meeting which will be brought up by someone else. Transcripts will also be available after the meeting for non-attendees to read.
==Current Meeting Time==
Each meeting will take place on the first Sunday of every new month.

<center>Sundays, 7pm UTC on [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|IRC]] Channel.</center>

{{meetings}}
==Upcoming Meetings==

==Previous Meetings==
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/6 February 2011|Sunday 6th February 2011]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/6 February 2011|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/6 February 2011/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/2 January 2011|Sunday 2nd January 2011]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/2 January 2011|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/2 January 2011/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 December 2010|Sunday 5th December 2010]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 December 2010|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 December 2010/Transcript|Transcript]])
*Sunday 7th November 2010 - ''Not Held''
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/3 October 2010|Sunday 3rd October 2010]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/3 October 2010/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010|Sunday 5th September 2010]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 September 2010|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010/Transcript|Transcript]])
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/1 August 2010|Sunday 1st August 2010]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/1 August 2010|Talk page]])
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/25 July 2010|Sunday 25th July 2010]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/25 July 2010|Talk page]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/27 June 2010|Sunday 27th June 2010]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/27 June 2010|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/27 June 2010/Transcript|Transcript]])
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/13 April 2009|Monday 13th April 2009]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/13 April 2009|Talk page]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 April 2009|5th April 2009]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 April 2009|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/23 November 2008|23rd November 2008]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/23 November 2008|Talk page]])
*16th November 2008 - ''Meeting Cancelled''
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/9 November 2008|9th November 2008]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/9 November 2008|Talk page]])
*2nd November 2008 - ''Meeting Cancelled''
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/26 October 2008|26th October 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/26 October 2008|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/19 October 2008|19th October 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/19 October 2008|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/12 October 2008|12th October 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/12 October 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/12 October 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*5th October 2008 - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 October 2008|Talk page]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/28 September 2008|28th September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/28 September 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/28 September 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/21 September 2008|21st September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/21 September 2008|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/14 September 2008|14th September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/14 September 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/14 September 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/7 September 2008|7th September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/7 September 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/7 September 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/31 August 2008|31st August 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/31 August 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/31 August 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/24 August 2008|24th August 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/24 August 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/24 August 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/17 August 2008|17th August 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/17 August 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/17 August 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])

==Connecting==
To join the meetings, you will need to use an IRC client to access the correct server and channels. To do this, you can use an IRC client, or you can access it using the browser-based client, Mibbit:
*[http://widget.mibbit.com/?server=irc.tolkiengateway.net&channel=%23TolkienGateway%2C%23Wiki Mibbit] - Browser-based Client

There is a variety of different IRC clients available for you to use, more prominent ones include:
*[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/16/ Chatzilla] - As an add-on to Firefox.
*[http://xchat.org/ XChat] - Free, stand-alone application.
*[http://www.icechat.net/site/ IceChat] - Free, stand-alone application.
*[http://www.bersirc.org/index.php/home Bersirc] - Free, stand-alone application.
*[http://www.mirc.com/ mIRC] - Shareware.
*[http://colloquy.info/ Colloquy] - For Mac users.

After you have installed the IRC Client, you will need to set it up to access Tolkien Gateway IRC channels; the following information should be useful:
*'''Server:''' irc.tolkiengateway.net
*'''Port:''' 6667
*'''Channel:''' /join #Wiki

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway Meetings| ]]

Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/6 February 2011/Transcript

2011-02-07T19:14:40Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

<poem><&Mith> Welcome, one and all, to Tolkien Gateway's 17th meeting. Ederchil, Eldarion (Telcontar), Hyarion, KingAragorn, Mith, Mithrennaith and Morgan are all in attendance.
<Morgan> Thank you!
<&Mith> The first item on the agenda is Myrtone's (who's not here), suggest to install the OpenID extension.
<Ederchil> care to explain it a little?
<&Mith> This will allow anyone with an OpenID to access TG without having to sign up. OpenID providers include AOL, BBC,[2] Google,[3] IBM, MySpace, Orange, PayPal, VeriSign, LiveJournal, and Yahoo! (according to Wikipedia).
<Morgan> Facebook?
<&Mith> No
<Morgan> Ok
<&Mith> To be honest, I think even if people have an OpenID they're not often aware of it.
<mithrennaith> I think that is quite likely, yes.
<Eldarion> and most people want to choose a custom Tolkien-related username for TG
<Morgan> True.
<mithrennaith> That too.
<Morgan> Like "Morgan"
<&Mith> So I think the benefit is marginal considering the technical faffing around.
<mithrennaith> agree
<Eldarion> i said most^^
<Ederchil> agreed
<Eldarion> agree
<Morgan> +1
<&Mith> So are we against it?
<Ederchil> yes
<mithrennaith> y
<Eldarion> jep
<Morgan> yep
<&Mith> OK
<&Mith> Myrtone's second suggestion was to install the LiquidThreads extension for the Forum and all talk pages.
<&Mith> You can see it, here: http://liquidthreads.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:LiquidThreads_testing
<Eldarion> would that solve our forum problems?
<&Mith> (All those topics are all on ONE talk page.)
<Eldarion> omg
<Morgan> Is it still in beta-phase?
<&Mith> Yes, still beta
<&Mith> But, it is used on some Wikimedia projects so it's not entirely untested
<Morgan> Do we know what is causing our current problem with the forum?
<&Mith> I just think it's over-solving a problem, to be honest
<mithrennaith> Tend to agree with Mith
<&Mith> We haven't got a problem with the layout of threads at the moment, we have a problem with displaying what threads there are. This wouldn't solve that problem unless we converted the whole Forum into one talk page.
<Eldarion> yes, agree
<mithrennaith> What’s standing in the way of solving our current forum problem?
<Ederchil> tend to agree with mith
<mithrennaith> I see KA has dropped off the chat ...
<&Mith> I have been unable to locate the problem with the current forum
<mithrennaith> Hyarion?
<&Mith> I have a hunch that tags don't work
<Morgan> Hyarion, do you have any idea?
<mithrennaith> In general, or specific?
<mithrennaith> Tags, I mean
<&Mith> <nowiki><forum> <createbox> <rss> <show>/<hide> <googlemaps> <youtube></nowiki> have all refused to work
<mithrennaith> Ah.
<&Mith> Noticed I replace <youtube> with a parserfunction ("<nowiki>{{#ev youtube|BALBLA}}</nowiki>") and it worked
<mithrennaith> No longer supported in new wiki software?
<&Mith> I think there's some messing it up along the way. The only fly in the ointment is that <nowiki><imagemap></nowiki> does work.
<mithrennaith> Or did and do they need some extension that is not available for new software?
<&Mith> I did wonder if it's a skin problem, as the skins are a bit outdated with regards to the new software (which is what was caused some of the previous problems)
<mithrennaith> Could be ... it still feels a bit foggy to me.
<Eldarion> have you tried things with another skin?
<&Mith> To be honest, it is.
<&Mith> I'm a bit foggy
<mithrennaith> ;)
<&Mith> Eldarion: all skins are old, and none of this stuff worked on any of them
<Eldarion> oka
<&Mith> OK, moving on
<mithrennaith> where do we go with this?
<&Mith> I put on the agenda that we should perhaps look at other alternatives for forums
<mithrennaith> Yes, I noticed.
<Morgan> I wouldn't mind an external forum. Would be great when TG is down.
<&Mith> There's this: http://wiki.anotherwebcom.com/Special:AWCforum/
<&Mith> Or this: http://unidentify.com/mediawiki/index.php5/Special:WikiForum
<&Mith> The problem with both of them is that they would not work with our current forum, and, as you can see from the URLs, they are all one special page
<mithrennaith> Yes.
<mithrennaith> Point is - if we don’t solve the problem with our current forum, should we go elsewhere, or make do with what we have.
<&Mith> TBH I don't really *like* these options as they don't solve the problme
<&Mith> I/We might be able to get the forum to work in the near future
<mithrennaith> I like the *look* of either, especially WikiForum, but what I’m looking for is a working forum.
<&Mith> So I'm a bit reluctant to commit to replacing what we've got; I think we should be aware of the options
<mithrennaith> Yes.
<mithrennaith> I concur in that.
<&Mith> I phpBB forum or something similar could be an option
<&Mith> Hyarion, do you have any thoughts on that?
<mithrennaith> phpBB - working separately from the wiki, you mean?
<Eldarion> we could install a simple php forum on the webspace of tg
<mithrennaith> Possible, yes.
<Morgan> I have a phpBB forum for my Realms of Arda web site. It works fine.
<Ederchil> phpBB might work; though I prefer an on-site option
<Eldarion> but an on-site option would overwrite the current forum threads
<mithrennaith> I frequent several phpBB fora, generally positive.
<mithrennaith> Overwrite? not necessarily.
<Ederchil> I have experience with them too
<Eldarion> at least the two mith pointed out did
<mithrennaith> Mith’s options use a special page, while the old forum would continue to reside in the Forum namespace
<&Mith> I think we've all probably installed/customised/ran/used phpBB so we have no problems on that front
<Eldarion> ah, okay
<&Mith> Yes, just to clarify, it would make our current forum redundant
<&Mith> Divorcing old forum from new forum
<mithrennaith> I’ve never installed a phpBB, but have some experience as a mod and discussing problems with admin’s on a shadow forum, so I know what the admin console looks like.
<Eldarion> okay, so the question is: on-site forum or separate phpbb-like forum
<&Mith> On-site
<mithrennaith> Well, my first preference would be getting the onwiki-forum to work properly again --
<Ederchil> I am an admin on one, though I never bothered to look at the console
<&Mith> We could just put this decision off
<&Mith> leave it as something to think about?
<mithrennaith> -- failing that my second preference is a phpBB sitting in a separate part of the webspace.
<Morgan> Yeah, I think Hyarion would have to say something about it too.
<mithrennaith> agree put off, but not too long.
<&Mith> I want current forum to work, my second preference would be the WikiForum extrension
<Eldarion> putting off sounds reasonable
<mithrennaith> I could live with that as well.
<mithrennaith> Advantage is that is sits in wiki-space.
<&Mith> Well, we can pencil it in for next month. I've been quite active in getting stuff sorted so I hope that I might have fixed it by then
<mithrennaith> Good.
<mithrennaith> Second that.
<Ederchil> okay
<&Mith> Before then, though, do we want to mention our preferences, or shall we just move on now?
<Morgan> My first pref is an off-site forum.
<Ederchil> Mine is on-site
<mithrennaith> !terminology: on/off-site vs on/off-wiki, do we all understand each other?
<Ederchil> *on-wiki
<&Mith> I think on-wiki probably wins it
<mithrennaith> I think so too.
<&Mith> So we'll be looking at options in that area. Sorry Morgan!
<Morgan> I hate democracy.. ;-)
<mithrennaith> someone might summarize the options on next meetings agenda ...
<&Mith> I shall
<mithrennaith> fine.
<Morgan> Let's move on!
<mithrennaith> +1
<&Mith> OK, moving on - as KA isn't here I'm going to leave his stuff till the end in the hope he turns up - namespace aliases.
<mithrennaith> yep.
<&Mith> Basically, a namespace alias is another way of typing in a namespace but it isn't an on-wiki redirect
<&Mith> E.g.
<&Mith> TG:Sandbox would take you automatically to Tolkien Gateway:Sandbox
<mithrennaith> I’m in favour - your table looks quite logically to me.
<&Mith> I think these would be supremely useful in saving have to type!
<Morgan> Any disadvantages?
<Ederchil> In favour, but it has no priority for me
<&Mith> No disadvsantages I think of
<&Mith> It would take me about 1 minute to arrange
<mithrennaith> But if we carry your proposal for a ‘Contents’ namespace, we might have a conflict for C and CT ...
<Morgan> A no-brainer? I'm all for it
<&Mith> It was Contents or Index
<&Mith> Eldarion, Hyarion, any thoughts?
<Ederchil> Contents? Would this move all pages out of mainspace?
<mithrennaith> No, think Table of Contents
<Ederchil> okay. for a moment I was all worried
<mithrennaith> At least that’s what I understand.
<mithrennaith> Hyarion is keeping schtumm.
<Eldarion> i think it's a good to keep links short so if it hasn't any disadvantages..
<mithrennaith> that’s what I think.
<&Mith> OK, moving swifty on to Contents:/Index:
<mithrennaith> yes.
<&Mith> Basically, EOA has a supremely easy navigational system
<&Mith> Of which I am jealous
<Morgan> The drop-down menus?
<Morgan> (or what you call them...)
<Eldarion> sorry: EOA?
<&Mith> Basically, Contents:/Index: could be used for these massive lists of articles, especially to replace our rather pathetic Special:PrefIndex e.g. http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/T
<Eldarion> ah
<Hyarion> Encyclopedia of Arda
<Eldarion> thx
<&Mith> We couldn't do the the drop downs without a new skin
<&Mith> However, we could say "Find all men HERE (Contents:Men)"
<Eldarion> so you want to organize our articles by categories?
<mithrennaith> Don’t we already have ‘Categories’ for that?
<&Mith> Yes, however, categories are way too subdivided
<mithrennaith> True - but we can always maintain a second category tree EncyclArda style.
<Hyarion> Why not an article called [[List of Men]]?
<mithrennaith> But I can understand there would be an advantage in having a separate namespace for the second category tree.
<&Mith> Because it's not really an article
<mithrennaith> [[List]]s have a habit of cluttering up main namespace with what doesn’t really belong there.
<&Mith> It's not really a main space page, that's my thinking
<mithrennaith> i.e., what Mith says.
<Eldarion> i like the idea, mith
<Hyarion> I guess I'm just partial to the way Wikipedia does it.
<Ederchil> I'm still not sure what to think of this
<Eldarion> so we could design our own table of contents
<mithrennaith> Yes, well, I think the many-branched WikiPedia style category tree should remain, and has an important function.
<mithrennaith> And it should be maintained properly.
<mithrennaith> But this could be a second content-indexing-approach next to that.
<Eldarion> and we could establish another category tree designed for the users to find things faster
<&Mith> Yeah, the benefit of this system is that it leaves the categories untouched, but each Contents: page is like a supercategory of everything
<mithrennaith> I’m beginning to like it ...
<Morgan> I'm not very techie, so I don't really follow ... in any case, in what whay would this be different from adding the category "Elves by name" to an individual article on an Elf?
<Morgan> *way
<mithrennaith> I think the main problem is that it would mislead less experienced editors into adding all categories of the WikiPedia style category tree on articles as well --
<mithrennaith> -- thereby ruining that category tree.
<mithrennaith> and seriously hampering any attempts to keep it in proper repair.
<mithrennaith> So to avoid that, a separate namespace would be an advantage.
<&Mith> For large contents
<mithrennaith> But it should really be able to work in the same way as categories.
<&Mith> E.g. Men, Hobbits, Years
<&Mith> Wouldn't have to keep pressing "(next 200)"
<mithrennaith> Is that technically possible?
<&Mith> Especially if we had Contents:A
<Hyarion> so the point of a Contents namespace is primarily due to Categories only displaying 200 listings per page?
<&Mith> It's a number of reasons
<mithrennaith> Or would it work more like an article namespace, with lists of wikilinks?
<Eldarion> ja
<Eldarion> sry, wrong window
<&Mith> It would work like an article with a list of wikilinks, that was my thinking
<mithrennaith> Ik dacht al ...
<&Mith> It keeps the current categories untouched
<mithrennaith> (aside to Eldarion)
<&Mith> It provides easy navigation
<&Mith> A one-stop shop
<Hyarion> How do other wiki's handle this problem?
<&Mith> I have no idea.
<mithrennaith> No real idea either ...
<&Mith> Perhaps some wikis don't subcategorise as much as we (or Wikipedia) do
<mithrennaith> Possibly.
<mithrennaith> But then you get ‘(next 200)’ very quickly.
<&Mith> I'm not feeling much enthusiasm
<mithrennaith> So I think many wiki’s would tend to use lists.
<Morgan> So, if I understand it correctly, you search for "Contents Elves: A", and then you get a list of all Elves which start on the letter A?
<Hyarion> I'm sure we could modify the category display limit if that's the main problem
<&Mith> Morgan, either Contents:A or Contents:Elves
<&Mith> If you're looking for Arwen, say
<mithrennaith> As I said, I’m warming to Mith’s argument --
<&Mith> Well, Hyarion, that wouldn't solve the problem as we subcategorise too much
<mithrennaith> -- but my problem is rather, is it a namespace for large lists we want, or a second category tree?
<Morgan> Mith: how would the wiki software know which articles to list in the "Contents:Elves"?
<mithrennaith> Because there is a great advantage to indexing articles by putting on category tags.
<Hyarion> Morgan, it would have to be manually edited.
<mithrennaith> And without these for the second tree, I have the same question as Morgan.
<mithrennaith> Exactly.
<mithrennaith> And that takes a lot of maintenance.
<Morgan> So you add something like [[Contents:Elves]] at the bottom of an article on Elves?
<&Mith> No, you have to edit the article Contents:Elves
<mithrennaith> Exactly ;)
<Hyarion> I'd rather see the articles just get added to all the necessary categories, so Arwen would show up in Category:Elves,
<mithrennaith> Put links to all the articles on elves in it.
<Morgan> I see,
<&Mith> To be honest, though, I think the main benefit was for replacing Special:PrefIndex:A, B, C, D, etc.
<Hyarion> so would we have a Contents:A article?
<&Mith> Yes
<Hyarion> that would take a lot of updating :)
<&Mith> Well, not really
<&Mith> Not once its done
<Morgan> Would it work automatically, in contrast to Contents:Elves?
<&Mith> It would take a lot of work to make (and I have no problem with doing that), but once it's done we don't have that many new articles to make it such a massive ordeal
<&Mith> Morgan: no
<mithrennaith> Well, as long as editors can’t learn to fix all the links when they rename or redirect an article, it would still add a lot of maintenance ... ;)
<Morgan> I tend to agree with Hyarion, there's a risk that the Contents:X will not be updated, and then you would rather use Special:PrefIndex anyway...?
<&Mith> Can we vote on it?
<Morgan> In any case I don't have any strong opinion on this, I wouldn't if it got implemented.
<Hyarion> It might be advantageous to see if the Special page can be modified to suit our needs as opposed to generating manual updating for something that is done with automatically.
<Morgan> *mind
<mithrennaith> I tend to agree with Hyarion on that last point.
<Morgan> Vote: I feel I'm not techincally competent enough to vote on this.
<Ederchil> Vote: Agree with Morgan
<Eldarion> i think i agree as well
<Morgan> I would rather leave it to the techincally-minded admins ;-)
<Morgan> *technically
<Eldarion> unless it would be like a table of contents that we edit in order to create kind of a menu structure
<Eldarion> but it would be a namespace, wouldn't it?
<Eldarion> nevermind
<Morgan> I have one query related to the navigational problem of TG - is it okey to bring it up?
<Hyarion> of course
<Morgan> I remember that Mith added a quote to our Tolkien Gateway article, from some reviewer claiming that it's easy to get lost on TG...
<&Mith> She's obviously never encountered the "Back" button. :p
<Morgan> ... I would agree with this reviewer. If you're basically interested in, let's say, articles on Elves, you get lost quickly if you press some internal links (that is, it might be difficult to find your way back, in case you don't remember the initial article)
<Hyarion> Morgan, but that's the point, it will be hours before they realize what they were really looking for in the first place :)
<Morgan> That's what I like about EoA, that you can always access the drop down menues to quickly find your way back. I know we have something similiar with the Portal stuff, but they are a bit difficult to understand for a newbie, perhaps?
<Hyarion> I've always liked breadcrumb navigation but unfortunatley the majority of articles have ambiguous parent categories
<Morgan> Would there be any way of solving this with our current Mediawiki? (Sorry to ramble on - we could move on to next point if gets tedious!)
<&Mith> Well, that was what my Contents: were aiming at. Obviously they wouldn't be on every page (unless with serious skin modification), but could be found from the homepage (in my head, that was the idea)
<Morgan> Hyarion, what is breadcrumb navigation?
<mithrennaith> Parent > Child > grandchild > great-grandchild
<mithrennaith> on top of every page.
<Eldarion> would it be possible to implement the Contents structure into a skin
<Eldarion> ?
<Hyarion> if you were on Aragorn, the top of the page might have links that look like [[Races]] > [[Men]] > [[Dunedain]] > Aragorn
<&Mith> Eldarion: yes it could be done.
<Morgan> I see, thanks
<Hyarion> Morgan, the drop down links on EoA you're referring to, those are the main Races, Places, etc. menu links right?
<Eldarion> then we could have content pages like Races, Men and Dunedain
<Eldarion> #Contents pages
<Morgan> But then Aragorn might also be in Cat:Kings, which might include Elves, Dwarves, etc. , which would make the breadcrumb navigation unusable?
<Eldarion> hm
<Hyarion> Morgan, well, not unusable, we would probably just have to pick the most appropriate path
<Eldarion> Aragorn would be on Dunedain and Kings
<Morgan> Hyarion: no, I'm thinking of the menu in the top, across a grey line
<Eldarion> and whichever link you click is displayed on top of the page
<Morgan> For excample, if you hold the mouse over "Races", a menu rolls down displaying all races, without making the page you're watching disappearing.
<Eldarion> if you click Aragorn on the Kings page the following would be displayes: Characters > Titles > Kings > Aragorn
<Eldarion> of sth. similar
<Eldarion> mith: how would the skin do that?
<Eldarion> would it look at the Races page, collect all links there and display them in the dropdown menu?
<Morgan> On TG, you would have to change page/article in order to see other "available" races. This might be one reason why TG might be difficult to navigate for newbies.
<&Mith> It could just be hard-coded into the skin itself. It wouldn't be dynamic (i.e. if ever we wantesd to change it, it would have to be done manually), but it could be done
<Hyarion> Morgan, gotcha, those might be similar to our Portals, which we could place on every page, I just hate cluttering everything up
<Eldarion> the EOA menu isn't cluttering everything up ;)
<Hyarion> Re: Breadcrumbs, I think there is an extension for it already, although I haven't used it.
<mithrennaith> On reading that review, I’m thinking that the reviewer doesn’t really understand how a wiki works ... nor is used to browsing with browser tabs ...
<Hyarion> Eldarion, although we have more than just the Races/Places to link to, I'm thinking all the real-world things
<Eldarion> the link "Races" in the menu would lead to the Races page in the Contents namespace then?
<Hyarion> Well, I would imagine it would link to Portal:Races
<Hyarion> I'm still unsure about the Contents namespace.
<Mith> Portals are much more than just lists of articles, aren't they?
<Morgan> True
<Hyarion> that's another point, for example the Races portal I'd imagine would be more beneficial if it said perhaps [[Elves]] ([[:Category:Elves|List of Elves]])
<Mith> OK, where do we go from here?
<Morgan> Next point? ;-)
<Mith> What's the point in having portals to lists. You might as well go staright to the list (be it in a category or contents or whatever)
<Morgan> (I have to be going very soon)
<Eldarion> we are discussing three points: breadcrumb navigation, new skin with dropdown menu, Contents namespace
<Hyarion> I always imagined the point of the portal as a central point for accessing the subject's articles
<Hyarion> the reason it differs from the category is so the portal can have text, images, etc. and be more visual to the visitor, so I don't see why it couldn't link to the categories.
<Hyarion2> I was wondering why everyone stopped talking... :)
<Morgan> ;-) Actually it's been silent since you left
<mithrennaith> Sorry, called off elsewhere temporarily - back now.
<Eldarion> maybe it would be better to put this topic off as well or do you think that we can find a decision tonight?
<Morgan> It's a large topic, so we better keep discussing in more meetings, IMHO
<Hyarion> agreed.
<Morgan> Did Mith loose connection? There's a sign before his name in my IRC client (&)
<mithrennaith> agreede
<mithrennaith> means admin.
<Morgan> Oh! :)
<Morgan> (where do you all learn this stuff?)
<mithrennaith> Guessing :)
<Morgan> haha!
<mithrennaith> It looks like a key in my client
<Hyarion> I guess from a business perspective when it comes to navigation, the best thing to ask ourselves is when someone comes to the site, what are they trying to find, do they need navigation or do they already know what they want?
<mithrennaith> and if I hover the cursor on that key, it says ‘admin, op’
<Mith> To be honest, I didn't have anything else to add.
<Hyarion> I almost like the idea of switching to http://tolkiengateway.net/search/ and just becoming more Google like :)
<Mith> I was struggling to keep up with three different conversation.
<Morgan> Good question. I guess it's a bit of both.
<Mith> That's assuming that people know what they're looking for
<Mith> Sometimes it's nice to window shop. :p
<Morgan> The one who just read LotR might be curious to see what's more, and the ones with more knowledge might be looking for specific articles.
<Hyarion> I agree, and I think Morgan has a good point in that a lot of people may not know what they are looking for, and just want some general top level links to click
<Mith> A top level link, like "Contents:Elves" :p
<Hyarion> or Portal:Elves :p
<Morgan> Well, should we say the we keep pondering about how to best structure TG, navigationally-wise, and move on to see if there's more points to discuss?
<Hyarion> agreed.
<Hyarion> hm, no one knows any iPhone/Android app developers by any chance?
<mithrennaith> Agreed as well.
<mithrennaith> But I think we can do with a page to set out the ideas/options a bit clearer. Forum, anyone? ;0
<Eldarion> i always wanted to try coding for Android
<mithrennaith> ;)
<Morgan> (My wife is calling me angrily - gotta go! See you all! Bye!)
<Eldarion> bye
<Hyarion> thanks for your contributions Morgan
<mithrennaith> Bye!
<Hyarion> always nice seeing you.
<Morgan> thanks, same to you all!
<Eldarion> yes, discussion page would be great
<Ederchil> back. sorry, phone call
<Mith> Bye Morgan!
<Mith> I believe
<Ederchil> oh, bye morgan
<Mith> We are already on an iPhon app!
<Hyarion> true
<Hyarion> that was quick.
<Eldarion> really?
<Mith> http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/986-Tolkien_news_last_week.php
<Morgan> (forgot that I can keep the window open, and then check how the discussion went before going to bed...!)
<Mith> iPad app, not iPhone
<Eldarion> interesting..
<Mith> Strange no one thought to mention it to us
<Eldarion> we don't know the developer?!
<Mith> Unless Hyarion does
<Mith> Richard Blum is the author
<Hyarion> I think he stopped into chat a couple times
<Hyarion> unless I'm thinking of someone else.
<Mith> (Link: https://sites.google.com/site/middleearthmapapp/screenshots/PlaceSelectDetail_Gateway.png?attredirects=0)https://sites.google.com/site/middleearthmapapp/screenshots/PlaceSelectDetail_Gateway.png?attredirects=0
<Mith> Are you thinking of Kris Kowal?
<Mith> Who did 3rin.gs?
<Eldarion> looks great^^
<Hyarion> yea, that's who I was thinking of, for some reason I was thinking they were one in the same.
<Mith> We still have a bit of meeting stuff to get through
<Mith> Very quickly
<Eldarion> sry, but why were you asking for a developer, hyarion?
<Mith> KingAragorn proposed an extension to provide Facebook intergration
<Hyarion> Eldarion, to see if we can get a proper Android/iPhone TG app thrown together of course :)
<Eldarion> hm, but could an app be more usefull than the website?!
<Hyarion> well, a mobile version of the site would work well
<Eldarion> yes
<Eldarion> so, the question is: mobile site or app?!
<Mith> This guy, Richard Blum
<Mith> Despite linking to TG, waxes lyrical about how great EOA is
<Eldarion> often it's better to have a decent mobile site than having an app that doesn't offer more than the website
<Mith> There's no mention of us in either his acknowledgements or references
<Mith> Despite the fact both EOA and Thain's Book are mentioned
<Hyarion> Eldarion, agreed.
<Hyarion> Mith, interesting, that's too bad.
<Mith> Also
<Mith> I think it's a bit much that's he's making money on the back of us, effectively
<Hyarion> oh one other thing we could start doing, maybe on our [[Tolkien Gateway]] article is list popular websites that have linked/referenced us
<Eldarion> agree
<Eldarion> with both of you
<mithrennaith> agree also with both ;)
<Eldarion> we could ask him to at least mention or thank us
<mithrennaith> y
<Mith> You would think so, wouldn't you
<Mith> This has made me quite angry!
<Hyarion> Mith, I dunno, I don't think as long as the app is linking to us there isn't anything wrong with that.
<mithrennaith> Yes, that’s what I was thinking - legally in terms of licence, that is.
<Eldarion> hm, on the other side the app earns money for him and our content is an important feature
<Mith> Can we release our own app and undercut him
<mithrennaith> But if he is acknowledging EncyclArda and Thain’s Book, he might nod in our way too ...
<Eldarion> yes, he might
<Eldarion> hm, don't know why there has to be a map int he centre..
<Eldarion> or is it the map why the people are buying the app?
<Hyarion> not sure if I pointed this out before but the LA Times linked to us a while back: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/28/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20101128
<Mith> It's a map
<Mith> But all the links on it are to us
<Mith> And, if you look at the screenshots
<Mith> It includes the ability to copy our text without acknowledgement
<Eldarion> i mean, if we make an app
<Eldarion> do we also have to use a map as starting point
<Eldarion> or can we just concentrate on the articles
<Hyarion> I'd imagine a TG app would be more centered on a search box and searching for articles
<mithrennaith> yep
<Eldarion> yes, i agree
<Eldarion> i'm wondering who is paying 4 dollars for a Tolkien app that displays free content?!
<Eldarion> free content except the map
<Mith> No idea
<Mith> Idiots
<mithrennaith> ;)
<Eldarion> at least they are Tolkien-loving idiots
<Mith> He didn't do the map himself
<mithrennaith> People like Kristine Kastle who wrote that review ...
<Eldarion> okay, we could think about the app idea
<Mith> In his Bibliography he says it's a rip off http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/File:Quentin_Lowagie_-_Arda_in_the_First_Age.gif
<mithrennaith> No, I was wondering where he got that map - EOA?
<Eldarion> do we want to continue with the meeting?
<mithrennaith> y
<mithrennaith> We have KA’s points and skins still on the agenda.
<Eldarion> i don't think we need Facebook login
<Eldarion> if someone is interested he can sign up
<Eldarion> that's my opinion
<Ederchil> agree with Eldarion
<mithrennaith> I think the point that most people want Tolkienist aliases for TG goes for this one as well.
<mithrennaith> So I would agree with Eldarion.
<Mith> That's three nos
<mithrennaith> Plus, I don’t want us to become another one of those ‘partners’ where you never know what they want to know about you.
<Eldarion> YES!
<Eldarion> facebook is mighty enough
<mithrennaith> If you still understand what I mean ... ;)
<mithrennaith> Quite.
<mithrennaith> So - No -- next?
<Eldarion> so, we are done with this point?
<Mith> OK, skins. Basically, I intend to make some news skins and I was wondering if people had any ideas they'd like to see. Don't have to tell me now but I think a Hobbity one is obvious. :p
<mithrennaith> I’m a bit blank for ideas at the moment.
<mithrennaith> Like to see what you want to do, though.
<Eldarion> dropdown menu, a bit
<mithrennaith> Maybe it will prompt something out of me ...
<Eldarion> i like the drawings in the current skin so something like this would be great
<mithrennaith> Drawings?
<Eldarion> i have mountains on the top..
<mithrennaith> You’re having ‘Tolkien Gateway’ skin?
<Eldarion> dunno
<Eldarion> no, ithilien
<mithrennaith> I’m having the default, which is ‘Cavendish’ - so I thought you were referring to the default.
<mithrennaith> Ah, Ithilien - yes.
<mithrennaith> Yes, those are John Howe’s drawings
<Eldarion> just beautiful :)
<mithrennaith> Much abused by all and sundry without asking his permission ... :)
<Eldarion> yes^^
<mithrennaith> I see there is a statement at the bottom of the skin mentioning John’s and Ted’s names, though
<mithrennaith> But, back to useful discussion -
<mithrennaith> As I said, I’m fine with Mith doing something and showing it.
<Eldarion> yes, of course
<mithrennaith> I wonder if it is useful to update the existing skins to the standard of present software.
<mithrennaith> Although I don’t think the one called ‘TolkienGateway’ merits it ...
<mithrennaith> ‘MonoBook’ possibly ...
<Eldarion> i think the one who wants to make a new skin can decide whether he wants to update or create something completely new
<mithrennaith> Mith, what’s your feeling on that?
<mithrennaith> Eldarion, yes that’s true, but we still have to decide whether we keep the old skins available when they’re no longer compliant, as soon as we have compliant skins.
<Eldarion> yes
<mithrennaith> And then it might be better to upgrade one or two we still want to keep and abandon the others.
<Eldarion> yes
<Eldarion> is somebody else still there?
<Ederchil> yes
<Eldarion> okay, do we want to continue to this point: "Can we just hire someone to fix all of the technical problems with TG?"
<mithrennaith> But I’m theorising here, as I don’t know well enough what the compliance problems of the present skin are, or how easy they are fixed.
<Mith> Ithilien is the default
<Mith> Cavendish is the old default (and the default for IE)
<Eldarion> okay
<Mith> I was going to get rid of TOlkien Gateway
<mithrennaith> Ah, that’s why I get it (C) as default.
<mithrennaith> Good (rid of old TG)
<Mith> I updated them a bit the other day, which is why we now have Edittools and proper formatting back
<mithrennaith> I noticed about Edittools.
<Eldarion> so it was because of the skins?
<Mith> That was why they weren't working before, yes.
<Mith> So I'm wondering if some of the other stuff isn't displaying for the same reason, but I'll have to look into it
<mithrennaith> So, what is your feeling, Mith? Do we update Cavendish and Ithilien as far as necessary and doable and drop TolkienG and MonoBook?
<Mith> Well, I think we can do that alongside new skins, can't we?
<mithrennaith> I do so too.
<Eldarion> aren't there skins in the www that we could try just to check whether it's working with them?
<Mith> I'd like a Hobbit skin for the Hobbit films... :p
<mithrennaith> And I agree.
<Mith> Eldarion: yeah, I'll have a look and try some out
<Eldarion> cool
<mithrennaith> But I’m applauding your energy here, Mith, as I’m without inspiration and time. ;)
<Mith> But if you have any ideas - other than sketches (could be some good Alan Lee ones around)- let me know.
<Eldarion> so atm we don't need professional help as KA proposed, do we?
<Eldarion> yes
<Mith> Also, I just want to applaud KA's work on Portals
<mithrennaith> Yes also.
<Ederchil> yes
<mithrennaith> Skin point settled then, Mith?
<mithrennaith> (for now)
<Mith> Yep
<Mith> Just so you all know, Editcount and ImageMap are back on the wiki
<mithrennaith> KA’s point of hiring someone (as Eldarion already mentioned :) )?
<Eldarion> great, thank you mith :)
<Mith> And you should be able to include videos too
<Mith> I've crossed out the stuff I've done so far from Technical: To-do
<mithrennaith> Yes great, second Eldarion on thanks!
<Mith> Not sure what happened there
<mithrennaith> Hiccup?
<Eldarion> can we decide on KA's point quickly?
<Mith> You should also find that user css works, and categories no long have two boxes around them.
<mithrennaith> I think Hyarion should be in on that. (KA’s point)
<Eldarion> splendid
<Eldarion> yes
<Mith> Employing someone? That's up to Hyarion really
<Ederchil> agree with Mithrennaith
<Eldarion> great
<Mith> Although let me have a fair crack at the whip. :p
<Eldarion> ^^
<mithrennaith> Yes ;)
<Mith> If that's all, meeting over! Thank you all for coming</poem>

Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/6 February 2011/Transcript

2011-02-07T19:06:38Z

Eldarion Telcontar: transcript

<poem><&Mith> Welcome, one and all, to Tolkien Gateway's 17th meeting. Ederchil, Eldarion (Telcontar), Hyarion, KingAragorn, Mith, Mithrennaith and Morgan are all in attendance.
<Morgan> Thank you!
<&Mith> The first item on the agenda is Myrtone's (who's not here), suggest to install the OpenID extension.
<Ederchil> care to explain it a little?
<&Mith> This will allow anyone with an OpenID to access TG without having to sign up. OpenID providers include AOL, BBC,[2] Google,[3] IBM, MySpace, Orange, PayPal, VeriSign, LiveJournal, and Yahoo! (according to Wikipedia).
<Morgan> Facebook?
<&Mith> No
<Morgan> Ok
<&Mith> To be honest, I think even if people have an OpenID they're not often aware of it.
<mithrennaith> I think that is quite likely, yes.
<Eldarion> and most people want to choose a custom Tolkien-related username for TG
<Morgan> True.
<mithrennaith> That too.
<Morgan> Like "Morgan"
<&Mith> So I think the benefit is marginal considering the technical faffing around.
<mithrennaith> agree
<Eldarion> i said most^^
<Ederchil> agreed
<Eldarion> agree
<Morgan> +1
<&Mith> So are we against it?
<Ederchil> yes
<mithrennaith> y
<Eldarion> jep
<Morgan> yep
<&Mith> OK
<&Mith> Myrtone's second suggestion was to install the LiquidThreads extension for the Forum and all talk pages.
<&Mith> You can see it, here: (Link: http://liquidthreads.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:LiquidThreads_testing)http://liquidthreads.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:LiquidThreads_testing
<Eldarion> would that solve our forum problems?
<&Mith> (All those topics are all on ONE talk page.)
<Eldarion> omg
<Morgan> Is it still in beta-phase?
<&Mith> Yes, still beta
<&Mith> But, it is used on some Wikimedia projects so it's not entirely untested
<Morgan> Do we know what is causing our current problem with the forum?
<&Mith> I just think it's over-solving a problem, to be honest
<mithrennaith> Tend to agree with Mith
<&Mith> We haven't got a problem with the layout of threads at the moment, we have a problem with displaying what threads there are. This wouldn't solve that problem unless we converted the whole Forum into one talk page.
<Eldarion> yes, agree
<mithrennaith> What’s standing in the way of solving our current forum problem?
<Ederchil> tend to agree with mith
<mithrennaith> I see KA has dropped off the chat ...
<&Mith> I have been unable to locate the problem with the current forum
<mithrennaith> Hyarion?
<&Mith> I have a hunch that tags don't work
<Morgan> Hyarion, do you have any idea?
<mithrennaith> In general, or specific?
<mithrennaith> Tags, I mean
<&Mith> <forum> <createbox> <rss> <show>/<hide> <googlemaps> <youtube> have all refused to work
<mithrennaith> Ah.
<&Mith> Noticed I replace <youtube> with a parserfunction ("{{#ev youtube|BALBLA}}") and it worked
<mithrennaith> No longer supported in new wiki software?
<&Mith> I think there's some messing it up along the way. The only fly in the ointment is that <imagemap> does work.
<mithrennaith> Or did and do they need some extension that is not available for new software?
<&Mith> I did wonder if it's a skin problem, as the skins are a bit outdated with regards to the new software (which is what was caused some of the previous problems)
<mithrennaith> Could be ... it still feels a bit foggy to me.
<Eldarion> have you tried things with another skin?
<&Mith> To be honest, it is.
<&Mith> I'm a bit foggy
<mithrennaith> ;)
<&Mith> Eldarion: all skins are old, and none of this stuff worked on any of them
<Eldarion> oka
<&Mith> OK, moving on
<mithrennaith> where do we go with this?
<&Mith> I put on the agenda that we should perhaps look at other alternatives for forums
<mithrennaith> Yes, I noticed.
<Morgan> I wouldn't mind an external forum. Would be great when TG is down.
<&Mith> There's this: (Link: http://wiki.anotherwebcom.com/Special:AWCforum/)http://wiki.anotherwebcom.com/Special:AWCforum/
<&Mith> Or this: (Link: http://unidentify.com/mediawiki/index.php5/Special:WikiForum)http://unidentify.com/mediawiki/index.php5/Special:WikiForum
<&Mith> The problem with both of them is that they would not work with our current forum, and, as you can see from the URLs, they are all one special page
<mithrennaith> Yes.
<mithrennaith> Point is - if we don’t solve the problem with our current forum, should we go elsewhere, or make do with what we have.
<&Mith> TBH I don't really *like* these options as they don't solve the problme
<&Mith> I/We might be able to get the forum to work in the near future
<mithrennaith> I like the *look* of either, especially WikiForum, but what I’m looking for is a working forum.
<&Mith> So I'm a bit reluctant to commit to replacing what we've got; I think we should be aware of the options
<mithrennaith> Yes.
<mithrennaith> I concur in that.
<&Mith> I phpBB forum or something similar could be an option
<&Mith> Hyarion, do you have any thoughts on that?
<mithrennaith> phpBB - working separately from the wiki, you mean?
<Eldarion> we could install a simple php forum on the webspace of tg
<mithrennaith> Possible, yes.
<Morgan> I have a phpBB forum for my Realms of Arda web site. It works fine.
<Ederchil> phpBB might work; though I prefer an on-site option
<Eldarion> but an on-site option would overwrite the current forum threads
<mithrennaith> I frequent several phpBB fora, generally positive.
<mithrennaith> Overwrite? not necessarily.
<Ederchil> I have experience with them too
<Eldarion> at least the two mith pointed out did
<mithrennaith> Mith’s options use a special page, while the old forum would continue to reside in the Forum namespace
<&Mith> I think we've all probably installed/customised/ran/used phpBB so we have no problems on that front
<Eldarion> ah, okay
<&Mith> Yes, just to clarify, it would make our current forum redundant
<&Mith> Divorcing old forum from new forum
<mithrennaith> I’ve never installed a phpBB, but have some experience as a mod and discussing problems with admin’s on a shadow forum, so I know what the admin console looks like.
<Eldarion> okay, so the question is: on-site forum or separate phpbb-like forum
<&Mith> On-site
<mithrennaith> Well, my first preference would be getting the onwiki-forum to work properly again --
<Ederchil> I am an admin on one, though I never bothered to look at the console
<&Mith> We could just put this decision off
<&Mith> leave it as something to think about?
<mithrennaith> -- failing that my second preference is a phpBB sitting in a separate part of the webspace.
<Morgan> Yeah, I think Hyarion would have to say something about it too.
<mithrennaith> agree put off, but not too long.
<&Mith> I want current forum to work, my second preference would be the WikiForum extrension
<Eldarion> putting off sounds reasonable
<mithrennaith> I could live with that as well.
<mithrennaith> Advantage is that is sits in wiki-space.
<&Mith> Well, we can pencil it in for next month. I've been quite active in getting stuff sorted so I hope that I might have fixed it by then
<mithrennaith> Good.
<mithrennaith> Second that.
<Ederchil> okay
<&Mith> Before then, though, do we want to mention our preferences, or shall we just move on now?
<Morgan> My first pref is an off-site forum.
<Ederchil> Mine is on-site
<mithrennaith> !terminology: on/off-site vs on/off-wiki, do we all understand each other?
<Ederchil> *on-wiki
<&Mith> I think on-wiki probably wins it
<mithrennaith> I think so too.
<&Mith> So we'll be looking at options in that area. Sorry Morgan!
<Morgan> I hate democracy.. ;-)
<mithrennaith> someone might summarize the options on next meetings agenda ...
<&Mith> I shall
<mithrennaith> fine.
<Morgan> Let's move on!
<mithrennaith> +1
<&Mith> OK, moving on - as KA isn't here I'm going to leave his stuff till the end in the hope he turns up - namespace aliases.
<mithrennaith> yep.
<&Mith> Basically, a namespace alias is another way of typing in a namespace but it isn't an on-wiki redirect
<&Mith> E.g.
<&Mith> TG:Sandbox would take you automatically to Tolkien Gateway:Sandbox
<mithrennaith> I’m in favour - your table looks quite logically to me.
<&Mith> I think these would be supremely useful in saving have to type!
<Morgan> Any disadvantages?
<Ederchil> In favour, but it has no priority for me
<&Mith> No disadvsantages I think of
<&Mith> It would take me about 1 minute to arrange
<mithrennaith> But if we carry your proposal for a ‘Contents’ namespace, we might have a conflict for C and CT ...
<Morgan> A no-brainer? I'm all for it
<&Mith> It was Contents or Index
<&Mith> Eldarion, Hyarion, any thoughts?
<Ederchil> Contents? Would this move all pages out of mainspace?
<mithrennaith> No, think Table of Contents
<Ederchil> okay. for a moment I was all worried
<mithrennaith> At least that’s what I understand.
<mithrennaith> Hyarion is keeping schtumm.
<Eldarion> i think it's a good to keep links short so if it hasn't any disadvantages..
<mithrennaith> that’s what I think.
<&Mith> OK, moving swifty on to Contents:/Index:
<mithrennaith> yes.
<&Mith> Basically, EOA has a supremely easy navigational system
<&Mith> Of which I am jealous
<Morgan> The drop-down menus?
<Morgan> (or what you call them...)
<Eldarion> sorry: EOA?
<&Mith> Basically, Contents:/Index: could be used for these massive lists of articles, especially to replace our rather pathetic Special:PrefIndex e.g. (Link: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/T)http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/T
<Eldarion> ah
<Hyarion> Encyclopedia of Arda
<Eldarion> thx
<&Mith> We couldn't do the the drop downs without a new skin
<&Mith> However, we could say "Find all men HERE (Contents:Men)"
<Eldarion> so you want to organize our articles by categories?
<mithrennaith> Don’t we already have ‘Categories’ for that?
<&Mith> Yes, however, categories are way too subdivided
<mithrennaith> True - but we can always maintain a second category tree EncyclArda style.
<Hyarion> Why not an article called [[List of Men]]?
<mithrennaith> But I can understand there would be an advantage in having a separate namespace for the second category tree.
<&Mith> Because it's not really an article
<mithrennaith> [[List]]s have a habit of cluttering up main namespace with what doesn’t really belong there.
<&Mith> It's not really a main space page, that's my thinking
<mithrennaith> i.e., what Mith says.
<Eldarion> i like the idea, mith
<Hyarion> I guess I'm just partial to the way Wikipedia does it.
<Ederchil> I'm still not sure what to think of this
<Eldarion> so we could design our own table of contents
<mithrennaith> Yes, well, I think the many-branched WikiPedia style category tree should remain, and has an important function.
<mithrennaith> And it should be maintained properly.
<mithrennaith> But this could be a second content-indexing-approach next to that.
<Eldarion> and we could establish another category tree designed for the users to find things faster
<&Mith> Yeah, the benefit of this system is that it leaves the categories untouched, but each Contents: page is like a supercategory of everything
<mithrennaith> I’m beginning to like it ...
<Morgan> I'm not very techie, so I don't really follow ... in any case, in what whay would this be different from adding the category "Elves by name" to an individual article on an Elf?
<Morgan> *way
<mithrennaith> I think the main problem is that it would mislead less experienced editors into adding all categories of the WikiPedia style category tree on articles as well --
<mithrennaith> -- thereby ruining that category tree.
<mithrennaith> and seriously hampering any attempts to keep it in proper repair.
<mithrennaith> So to avoid that, a separate namespace would be an advantage.
<&Mith> For large contents
<mithrennaith> But it should really be able to work in the same way as categories.
<&Mith> E.g. Men, Hobbits, Years
<&Mith> Wouldn't have to keep pressing "(next 200)"
<mithrennaith> Is that technically possible?
<&Mith> Especially if we had Contents:A
<Hyarion> so the point of a Contents namespace is primarily due to Categories only displaying 200 listings per page?
<&Mith> It's a number of reasons
<mithrennaith> Or would it work more like an article namespace, with lists of wikilinks?
<Eldarion> ja
<Eldarion> sry, wrong window
<&Mith> It would work like an article with a list of wikilinks, that was my thinking
<mithrennaith> Ik dacht al ...
<&Mith> It keeps the current categories untouched
<mithrennaith> (aside to Eldarion)
<&Mith> It provides easy navigation
<&Mith> A one-stop shop
<Hyarion> How do other wiki's handle this problem?
<&Mith> I have no idea.
<mithrennaith> No real idea either ...
<&Mith> Perhaps some wikis don't subcategorise as much as we (or Wikipedia) do
<mithrennaith> Possibly.
<mithrennaith> But then you get ‘(next 200)’ very quickly.
<&Mith> I'm not feeling much enthusiasm
<mithrennaith> So I think many wiki’s would tend to use lists.
<Morgan> So, if I understand it correctly, you search for "Contents Elves: A", and then you get a list of all Elves which start on the letter A?
<Hyarion> I'm sure we could modify the category display limit if that's the main problem
<&Mith> Morgan, either Contents:A or Contents:Elves
<&Mith> If you're looking for Arwen, say
<mithrennaith> As I said, I’m warming to Mith’s argument --
<&Mith> Well, Hyarion, that wouldn't solve the problem as we subcategorise too much
<mithrennaith> -- but my problem is rather, is it a namespace for large lists we want, or a second category tree?
<Morgan> Mith: how would the wiki software know which articles to list in the "Contents:Elves"?
<mithrennaith> Because there is a great advantage to indexing articles by putting on category tags.
<Hyarion> Morgan, it would have to be manually edited.
<mithrennaith> And without these for the second tree, I have the same question as Morgan.
<mithrennaith> Exactly.
<mithrennaith> And that takes a lot of maintenance.
<Morgan> So you add something like [[Contents:Elves]] at the bottom of an article on Elves?
<&Mith> No, you have to edit the article Contents:Elves
<mithrennaith> Exactly ;)
<Hyarion> I'd rather see the articles just get added to all the necessary categories, so Arwen would show up in Category:Elves,
<mithrennaith> Put links to all the articles on elves in it.
<Morgan> I see,
<&Mith> To be honest, though, I think the main benefit was for replacing Special:PrefIndex:A, B, C, D, etc.
<Hyarion> so would we have a Contents:A article?
<&Mith> Yes
<Hyarion> that would take a lot of updating :)
<&Mith> Well, not really
<&Mith> Not once its done
<Morgan> Would it work automatically, in contrast to Contents:Elves?
<&Mith> It would take a lot of work to make (and I have no problem with doing that), but once it's done we don't have that many new articles to make it such a massive ordeal
<&Mith> Morgan: no
<mithrennaith> Well, as long as editors can’t learn to fix all the links when they rename or redirect an article, it would still add a lot of maintenance ... ;)
<Morgan> I tend to agree with Hyarion, there's a risk that the Contents:X will not be updated, and then you would rather use Special:PrefIndex anyway...?
<&Mith> Can we vote on it?
<Morgan> In any case I don't have any strong opinion on this, I wouldn't if it got implemented.
<Hyarion> It might be advantageous to see if the Special page can be modified to suit our needs as opposed to generating manual updating for something that is done with automatically.
<Morgan> *mind
<mithrennaith> I tend to agree with Hyarion on that last point.
<Morgan> Vote: I feel I'm not techincally competent enough to vote on this.
<Ederchil> Vote: Agree with Morgan
<Eldarion> i think i agree as well
<Morgan> I would rather leave it to the techincally-minded admins ;-)
<Morgan> *technically
<Eldarion> unless it would be like a table of contents that we edit in order to create kind of a menu structure
<Eldarion> but it would be a namespace, wouldn't it?
<Eldarion> nevermind
<Morgan> I have one query related to the navigational problem of TG - is it okey to bring it up?
<Hyarion> of course
<Morgan> I remember that Mith added a quote to our Tolkien Gateway article, from some reviewer claiming that it's easy to get lost on TG...
<&Mith> She's obviously never encountered the "Back" button. :p
<Morgan> ... I would agree with this reviewer. If you're basically interested in, let's say, articles on Elves, you get lost quickly if you press some internal links (that is, it might be difficult to find your way back, in case you don't remember the initial article)
<Hyarion> Morgan, but that's the point, it will be hours before they realize what they were really looking for in the first place :)
<Morgan> That's what I like about EoA, that you can always access the drop down menues to quickly find your way back. I know we have something similiar with the Portal stuff, but they are a bit difficult to understand for a newbie, perhaps?
<Hyarion> I've always liked breadcrumb navigation but unfortunatley the majority of articles have ambiguous parent categories
<Morgan> Would there be any way of solving this with our current Mediawiki? (Sorry to ramble on - we could move on to next point if gets tedious!)
<&Mith> Well, that was what my Contents: were aiming at. Obviously they wouldn't be on every page (unless with serious skin modification), but could be found from the homepage (in my head, that was the idea)
<Morgan> Hyarion, what is breadcrumb navigation?
<mithrennaith> Parent > Child > grandchild > great-grandchild
<mithrennaith> on top of every page.
<Eldarion> would it be possible to implement the Contents structure into a skin
<Eldarion> ?
<Hyarion> if you were on Aragorn, the top of the page might have links that look like [[Races]] > [[Men]] > [[Dunedain]] > Aragorn
<&Mith> Eldarion: yes it could be done.
<Morgan> I see, thanks
<Hyarion> Morgan, the drop down links on EoA you're referring to, those are the main Races, Places, etc. menu links right?
<Eldarion> then we could have content pages like Races, Men and Dunedain
<Eldarion> #Contents pages
<Morgan> But then Aragorn might also be in Cat:Kings, which might include Elves, Dwarves, etc. , which would make the breadcrumb navigation unusable?
<Eldarion> hm
<Hyarion> Morgan, well, not unusable, we would probably just have to pick the most appropriate path
<Eldarion> Aragorn would be on Dunedain and Kings
<Morgan> Hyarion: no, I'm thinking of the menu in the top, across a grey line
<Eldarion> and whichever link you click is displayed on top of the page
<Morgan> For excample, if you hold the mouse over "Races", a menu rolls down displaying all races, without making the page you're watching disappearing.
<Eldarion> if you click Aragorn on the Kings page the following would be displayes: Characters > Titles > Kings > Aragorn
<Eldarion> of sth. similar
<Eldarion> mith: how would the skin do that?
<Eldarion> would it look at the Races page, collect all links there and display them in the dropdown menu?
<Morgan> On TG, you would have to change page/article in order to see other "available" races. This might be one reason why TG might be difficult to navigate for newbies.
<&Mith> It could just be hard-coded into the skin itself. It wouldn't be dynamic (i.e. if ever we wantesd to change it, it would have to be done manually), but it could be done
<Hyarion> Morgan, gotcha, those might be similar to our Portals, which we could place on every page, I just hate cluttering everything up
<Eldarion> the EOA menu isn't cluttering everything up ;)
<Hyarion> Re: Breadcrumbs, I think there is an extension for it already, although I haven't used it.
<mithrennaith> On reading that review, I’m thinking that the reviewer doesn’t really understand how a wiki works ... nor is used to browsing with browser tabs ...
<Hyarion> Eldarion, although we have more than just the Races/Places to link to, I'm thinking all the real-world things
<Eldarion> the link "Races" in the menu would lead to the Races page in the Contents namespace then?
<Hyarion> Well, I would imagine it would link to Portal:Races
<Hyarion> I'm still unsure about the Contents namespace.
<Mith> Portals are much more than just lists of articles, aren't they?
<Morgan> True
<Hyarion> that's another point, for example the Races portal I'd imagine would be more beneficial if it said perhaps [[Elves]] ([[:Category:Elves|List of Elves]])
<Mith> OK, where do we go from here?
<Morgan> Next point? ;-)
<Mith> What's the point in having portals to lists. You might as well go staright to the list (be it in a category or contents or whatever)
<Morgan> (I have to be going very soon)
<Eldarion> we are discussing three points: breadcrumb navigation, new skin with dropdown menu, Contents namespace
<Hyarion> I always imagined the point of the portal as a central point for accessing the subject's articles
<Hyarion> the reason it differs from the category is so the portal can have text, images, etc. and be more visual to the visitor, so I don't see why it couldn't link to the categories.
*** Hyarion2 ist #Wiki beigetreten
<Hyarion2> I was wondering why everyone stopped talking... :)
<Morgan> ;-) Actually it's been silent since you left
<mithrennaith> Sorry, called off elsewhere temporarily - back now.
<Eldarion> maybe it would be better to put this topic off as well or do you think that we can find a decision tonight?
<Morgan> It's a large topic, so we better keep discussing in more meetings, IMHO
<Hyarion> agreed.
<Morgan> Did Mith loose connection? There's a sign before his name in my IRC client (&)
<mithrennaith> agreede
<mithrennaith> means admin.
<Morgan> Oh! :)
<Morgan> (where do you all learn this stuff?)
<mithrennaith> Guessing :)
<Morgan> haha!
<mithrennaith> It looks like a key in my client
<Hyarion> I guess from a business perspective when it comes to navigation, the best thing to ask ourselves is when someone comes to the site, what are they trying to find, do they need navigation or do they already know what they want?
<mithrennaith> and if I hover the cursor on that key, it says ‘admin, op’
<Mith> To be honest, I didn't have anything else to add.
<Hyarion> I almost like the idea of switching to (Link: http://tolkiengateway.net/search/)http://tolkiengateway.net/search/ and just becoming more Google like :)
<Mith> I was struggling to keep up with three different conversation.
<Morgan> Good question. I guess it's a bit of both.
<Mith> That's assuming that people know what they're looking for
<Mith> Sometimes it's nice to window shop. :p
<Morgan> The one who just read LotR might be curious to see what's more, and the ones with more knowledge might be looking for specific articles.
<Hyarion> I agree, and I think Morgan has a good point in that a lot of people may not know what they are looking for, and just want some general top level links to click
<Mith> A top level link, like "Contents:Elves" :p
<Hyarion> or Portal:Elves :p
<Morgan> Well, should we say the we keep pondering about how to best structure TG, navigationally-wise, and move on to see if there's more points to discuss?
<Hyarion> agreed.
<Hyarion> hm, no one knows any iPhone/Android app developers by any chance?
<mithrennaith> Agreed as well.
<mithrennaith> But I think we can do with a page to set out the ideas/options a bit clearer. Forum, anyone? ;0
<Eldarion> i always wanted to try coding for Android
<mithrennaith> ;)
<Morgan> (My wife is calling me angrily - gotta go! See you all! Bye!)
<Eldarion> bye
<Hyarion> thanks for your contributions Morgan
<mithrennaith> Bye!
<Hyarion> always nice seeing you.
<Morgan> thanks, same to you all!
<Eldarion> yes, discussion page would be great
<Ederchil> back. sorry, phone call
<Mith> Bye Morgan!
<Mith> I believe
<Ederchil> oh, bye morgan
<Mith> We are already on an iPhon app!
<Hyarion> true
*** Morgan ist #Wiki beigetreten
<Hyarion> that was quick.
<Eldarion> really?
<Mith> (Link: http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/986-Tolkien_news_last_week.php)http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/986-Tolkien_news_last_week.php
<Morgan> (forgot that I can keep the window open, and then check how the discussion went before going to bed...!)
<Mith> iPad app, not iPhone
<Eldarion> interesting..
<Mith> Strange no one thought to mention it to us
<Eldarion> we don't know the developer?!
<Mith> Unless Hyarion does
<Mith> Richard Blum is the author
<Hyarion> I think he stopped into chat a couple times
<Hyarion> unless I'm thinking of someone else.
<Mith> (Link: https://sites.google.com/site/middleearthmapapp/screenshots/PlaceSelectDetail_Gateway.png?attredirects=0)https://sites.google.com/site/middleearthmapapp/screenshots/PlaceSelectDetail_Gateway.png?attredirects=0
<Mith> Are you thinking of Kris Kowal?
<Mith> Who did 3rin.gs?
<Eldarion> looks great^^
<Hyarion> yea, that's who I was thinking of, for some reason I was thinking they were one in the same.
<Mith> We still have a bit of meeting stuff to get through
<Mith> Very quickly
<Eldarion> sry, but why were you asking for a developer, hyarion?
<Mith> KingAragorn proposed an extension to provide Facebook intergration
<Hyarion> Eldarion, to see if we can get a proper Android/iPhone TG app thrown together of course :)
<Eldarion> hm, but could an app be more usefull than the website?!
<Hyarion> well, a mobile version of the site would work well
<Eldarion> yes
<Eldarion> so, the question is: mobile site or app?!
<Mith> This guy, Richard Blum
<Mith> Despite linking to TG, waxes lyrical about how great EOA is
<Eldarion> often it's better to have a decent mobile site than having an app that doesn't offer more than the website
<Mith> There's no mention of us in either his acknowledgements or references
<Mith> Despite the fact both EOA and Thain's Book are mentioned
<Hyarion> Eldarion, agreed.
<Hyarion> Mith, interesting, that's too bad.
<Mith> Also
<Mith> I think it's a bit much that's he's making money on the back of us, effectively
<Hyarion> oh one other thing we could start doing, maybe on our [[Tolkien Gateway]] article is list popular websites that have linked/referenced us
<Eldarion> agree
<Eldarion> with both of you
<mithrennaith> agree also with both ;)
<Eldarion> we could ask him to at least mention or thank us
<mithrennaith> y
<Mith> You would think so, wouldn't you
<Mith> This has made me quite angry!
<Hyarion> Mith, I dunno, I don't think as long as the app is linking to us there isn't anything wrong with that.
<mithrennaith> Yes, that’s what I was thinking - legally in terms of licence, that is.
<Eldarion> hm, on the other side the app earns money for him and our content is an important feature
<Mith> Can we release our own app and undercut him
<mithrennaith> But if he is acknowledging EncyclArda and Thain’s Book, he might nod in our way too ...
<Eldarion> yes, he might
<Eldarion> hm, don't know why there has to be a map int he centre..
<Eldarion> or is it the map why the people are buying the app?
<Hyarion> not sure if I pointed this out before but the LA Times linked to us a while back: (Link: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/28/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20101128)http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/28/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20101128
<Mith> It's a map
<Mith> But all the links on it are to us
<Mith> And, if you look at the screenshots
<Mith> It includes the ability to copy our text without acknowledgement
<Eldarion> i mean, if we make an app
<Eldarion> do we also have to use a map as starting point
<Eldarion> or can we just concentrate on the articles
<Hyarion> I'd imagine a TG app would be more centered on a search box and searching for articles
<mithrennaith> yep
<Eldarion> yes, i agree
<Eldarion> i'm wondering who is paying 4 dollars for a Tolkien app that displays free content?!
<Eldarion> free content except the map
<Mith> No idea
<Mith> Idiots
<mithrennaith> ;)
<Eldarion> at least they are Tolkien-loving idiots
<Mith> He didn't do the map himself
<mithrennaith> People like Kristine Kastle who wrote that review ...
<Eldarion> okay, we could think about the app idea
<Mith> In his Bibliography he says it's a rip off (Link: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/File:Quentin_Lowagie_-_Arda_in_the_First_Age.gif)http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/File:Quentin_Lowagie_-_Arda_in_the_First_Age.gif
<mithrennaith> No, I was wondering where he got that map - EOA?
<Eldarion> do we want to continue with the meeting?
<mithrennaith> y
<mithrennaith> We have KA’s points and skins still on the agenda.
<Eldarion> i don't think we need Facebook login
<Eldarion> if someone is interested he can sign up
<Eldarion> that's my opinion
<Ederchil> agree with Eldarion
<mithrennaith> I think the point that most people want Tolkienist aliases for TG goes for this one as well.
<mithrennaith> So I would agree with Eldarion.
<Mith> That's three nos
<mithrennaith> Plus, I don’t want us to become another one of those ‘partners’ where you never know what they want to know about you.
<Eldarion> YES!
<Eldarion> facebook is mighty enough
<mithrennaith> If you still understand what I mean ... ;)
<mithrennaith> Quite.
<mithrennaith> So - No -- next?
<Eldarion> so, we are done with this point?
<Mith> OK, skins. Basically, I intend to make some news skins and I was wondering if people had any ideas they'd like to see. Don't have to tell me now but I think a Hobbity one is obvious. :p
<mithrennaith> I’m a bit blank for ideas at the moment.
<mithrennaith> Like to see what you want to do, though.
<Eldarion> dropdown menu, a bit
<mithrennaith> Maybe it will prompt something out of me ...
<Eldarion> i like the drawings in the current skin so something like this would be great
<mithrennaith> Drawings?
<Eldarion> i have mountains on the top..
<mithrennaith> You’re having ‘Tolkien Gateway’ skin?
<Eldarion> dunno
<Eldarion> no, ithilien
<mithrennaith> I’m having the default, which is ‘Cavendish’ - so I thought you were referring to the default.
<mithrennaith> Ah, Ithilien - yes.
<mithrennaith> Yes, those are John Howe’s drawings
<Eldarion> just beautiful :)
<mithrennaith> Much abused by all and sundry without asking his permission ... :)
<Eldarion> yes^^
<mithrennaith> I see there is a statement at the bottom of the skin mentioning John’s and Ted’s names, though
<mithrennaith> But, back to useful discussion -
<mithrennaith> As I said, I’m fine with Mith doing something and showing it.
<Eldarion> yes, of course
<mithrennaith> I wonder if it is useful to update the existing skins to the standard of present software.
<mithrennaith> Although I don’t think the one called ‘TolkienGateway’ merits it ...
<mithrennaith> ‘MonoBook’ possibly ...
<Eldarion> i think the one who wants to make a new skin can decide whether he wants to update or create something completely new
<mithrennaith> Mith, what’s your feeling on that?
<mithrennaith> Eldarion, yes that’s true, but we still have to decide whether we keep the old skins available when they’re no longer compliant, as soon as we have compliant skins.
<Eldarion> yes
<mithrennaith> And then it might be better to upgrade one or two we still want to keep and abandon the others.
<Eldarion> yes
<Eldarion> is somebody else still there?
<Ederchil> yes
<Eldarion> okay, do we want to continue to this point: "Can we just hire someone to fix all of the technical problems with TG?"
<mithrennaith> But I’m theorising here, as I don’t know well enough what the compliance problems of the present skin are, or how easy they are fixed.
<Mith> Ithilien is the default
<Mith> Cavendish is the old default (and the default for IE)
<Eldarion> okay
<Mith> I was going to get rid of TOlkien Gateway
<mithrennaith> Ah, that’s why I get it (C) as default.
<mithrennaith> Good (rid of old TG)
<Mith> I updated them a bit the other day, which is why we now have Edittools and proper formatting back
<mithrennaith> I noticed about Edittools.
<Eldarion> so it was because of the skins?
<Mith> That was why they weren't working before, yes.
<Mith> So I'm wondering if some of the other stuff isn't displaying for the same reason, but I'll have to look into it
<mithrennaith> So, what is your feeling, Mith? Do we update Cavendish and Ithilien as far as necessary and doable and drop TolkienG and MonoBook?
<Mith> Well, I think we can do that alongside new skins, can't we?
<mithrennaith> I do so too.
<Eldarion> aren't there skins in the www that we could try just to check whether it's working with them?
<Mith> I'd like a Hobbit skin for the Hobbit films... :p
<mithrennaith> And I agree.
<Mith> Eldarion: yeah, I'll have a look and try some out
<Eldarion> cool
<mithrennaith> But I’m applauding your energy here, Mith, as I’m without inspiration and time. ;)
<Mith> But if you have any ideas - other than sketches (could be some good Alan Lee ones around)- let me know.
<Eldarion> so atm we don't need professional help as KA proposed, do we?
<Eldarion> yes
<Mith> Also, I just want to applaud KA's work on Portals
<mithrennaith> Yes also.
<Ederchil> yes
<mithrennaith> Skin point settled then, Mith?
<mithrennaith> (for now)
<Mith> Yep
<Mith> Just so you all know, Editcount and ImageMap are back on the wiki
<mithrennaith> KA’s point of hiring someone (as Eldarion already mentioned :) )?
<Eldarion> great, thank you mith :)
<Mith> And you should be able to include videos too
<Mith> I've crossed out the stuff I've done so far from Technical: To-do
<mithrennaith> Yes great, second Eldarion on thanks!
<Mith> Not sure what happened there
<mithrennaith> Hiccup?
<Eldarion> can we decide on KA's point quickly?
<Mith> You should also find that user css works, and categories no long have two boxes around them.
<mithrennaith> I think Hyarion should be in on that. (KA’s point)
<Eldarion> splendid
<Eldarion> yes
<Mith> Employing someone? That's up to Hyarion really
<Ederchil> agree with Mithrennaith
<Eldarion> great
<Mith> Although let me have a fair crack at the whip. :p
<Eldarion> ^^
<mithrennaith> Yes ;)
<Mith> If that's all, meeting over! Thank you all for coming</poem>

User:Eldarion Telcontar/Sandbox

2011-02-06T19:50:57Z

Eldarion Telcontar: test

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2011-02-06T18:21:41Z

Eldarion Telcontar: updated number

== List of 52 nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

* 58 quotes at the moment

=== The Fellowship of the Ring ===

{{quote|'Proudfeet!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavillion. His name, of course, was Proudfoot, and well merited; his feet were large, exceptionally furry, and both were on the table.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Shadow of the Past]]"}}
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{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
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{{quote|Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Seek for the Sword that was broken: In Imladris it dwells; There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells. There shall be shown a token That Doom is near at hand, For Isildur's Bane shall waken, And the Halfling forth shall stand.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|We must take a hard road, a road unforeseen. There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril — to Mordor. We must send the Ring to the Fire.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Fly you fools!" he cried, and was gone.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}
----
{{quote|Memory is not what the heart desires. That is only a mirror, be it clear as Kheled-zâram. Or so says the heart of Gimli the Dwarf. Elves may see things otherwise. Indeed I have heard that for them memory is more like to the waking world than to a dream. Not so for Dwarves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Farewell to Lórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Breaking of the Fellowship]]"}}

=== The Two Towers ===

{{quote|Gondor! Gondor, between the Mountains and the Sea! West Wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree Fell like bright rain in gardens of the Kings of old. O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold! O Gondor, Gondor! Shall Men behold the Silver Tree, Or West Wind blow again between the Mountains and the Sea?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of the shadows the hobbits peeped, gazing back down the slope:little furtive figures that in the dim light looked like elf-children in the deeps of time peering out of the Wild Wood in wonder at their first dawn.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Uruk-hai]]"}}
----
{{quote|Do not be hasty, that is my motto.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Learn now the lore of Living Creatures! First name the four, the free peoples: Eldest of all, the elf-children; Dwarf the delver, dark are his houses; Ent the earthborn, old as mountains; Man the mortal, master of horses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|To Isengard! Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone; Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone, We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door; For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war! To land of gloom with tramp of doom, with roll of drum, we come, we come; To Isengard with doom we come! With doom we come, with doom we come!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Yes, I am white now," said Gandalf. "Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Dark Lord has Nine. But we have One, mightier than they: the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss, and they shall fear him. We will go where he leads.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|We are all friends here. Or should be; for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward, if we quarrel.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise now, arise, Riders of Théoden! Dire deeds awake, dark is it eastward. Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded! Forth Eorlingas!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|"So that is the King of Rohan," said Pippin in an undertone. "A fine old fellow. Very polite."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Road to Isengard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Often does hatred hurt itself!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Voice of Saruman]]"}}
----
{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
----
{{quote|Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Shadowfax tossed his head and cried aloud, as if a trumpet had summoned him to battle. Then he sprang forward. Fire flew from his feet; night rushed over him.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Taming of Sméagol]]"}}
----
{{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace-all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}
----
{{quote|"For myself," said Faramir, "I would see the White Tree in flower again in the courts of the kings, and the Silver Crown return, and Minas Tirith in peace: Minas Anor again as of old, full of light, high and fair, beautiful as a queen among other queens."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|Who can now hold the fords when the King of the Nine Riders comes? And other armies will come. I am too late. All is lost. I tarried on the way. All is lost. Even if my errand is performed, no one will ever know. There will be no one I can tell. It will be in vain.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|I wonder if we shall ever be put into songs or tales. We're in one, or course; but I mean: put into words, you know, told by the fireside, or read out of a great big book with red and black letters, years and years afterwards. And people will say: "Let's hear about Frodo and the Ring!" And they'll say: "Yes, that's one of my favourite stories. Frodo was very brave. wasn't he, dad?" "Yes, my boy, the famousest of the hobbits, and that's saying a lot."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}

=== The Return of The King ===

{{quote|I count many things: stars in sky, leaves on trees, men in the dark. You have a score of scores counted ten times and five. They have more. Big fight, and who will win? And many more walk round walls of Stone-houses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|<nowiki>'</nowiki>Master Meriadoc,' said Aragorn, 'if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called ''westmansweed'' by the vulgar, and ''galenas'' by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I. For I have not slept in such a bed as this, since I rode from Dunharrow, nor eaten since the dark before dawn.'|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gloin's son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire, nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Black Gate Opens]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}

=== The Hobbit ===

{{Quote|I have chosen Mr. Baggins and that ought to be enough for all of you. If I say he is a Burglar, a Burglar he is, or will be when the time comes. There is a lot more in him than you guess, and a deal more than he has any idea of himself.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[An Unexpected Party]]"}}
----
{{Quote|If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[The Return Journey]]"}}

=== The Silmarillion ===

{{Quote|There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made. And he spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before him, and he was glad.|{{S|I}}}}
----
{{Quote|Fëanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant. Finarfin was the fairest, and the most wise of heart.|{{S|5}}}}
----
{{Quote|Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue.|{{S|9}}}}
----
{{Quote|Last of all Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed; and it is sung that the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered, and each time that he slew Húrin cried 'Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!' Seventy times he uttered that cry; but they took him at last alive.|{{S|20}}}}
----
{{Quote|The Nazgûl were they; the Ringwraiths, the Enemy's most terribly servants; darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.|{{S|V}}}}

=== Unfinished Tales ===

{{quote|When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth.|''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', "[[The Quest of Erebor]]"}}

=== Comments ===
I'm not sure where to place this, but I'll put it here. I think the balance of the overall set of quotes is too far in favour of ''[[The Lord of the Rings|TLOTR]]'', as I think we should have more from other publications, especially ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Silmarillion]]''. What does everyone else think? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

:I agree. But it's just because I started with quotes from TLOTR. When I'm finished with that I will look for some from the other books. We certainly shouldn't stop when we have 52 quotes but should keep finding new ones until we have enough from every important book. And if you have more great quotes like our present FQ you could post them. --[[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 00:15, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2011-02-06T18:18:05Z

Eldarion Telcontar: quotes from The Hobbit and the Sil.

== List of 52 nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

* 48 done, (at least) 4 to go

=== The Fellowship of the Ring ===

{{quote|'Proudfeet!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavillion. His name, of course, was Proudfoot, and well merited; his feet were large, exceptionally furry, and both were on the table.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Shadow of the Past]]"}}
----
{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Seek for the Sword that was broken: In Imladris it dwells; There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells. There shall be shown a token That Doom is near at hand, For Isildur's Bane shall waken, And the Halfling forth shall stand.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|We must take a hard road, a road unforeseen. There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril — to Mordor. We must send the Ring to the Fire.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Fly you fools!" he cried, and was gone.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}
----
{{quote|Memory is not what the heart desires. That is only a mirror, be it clear as Kheled-zâram. Or so says the heart of Gimli the Dwarf. Elves may see things otherwise. Indeed I have heard that for them memory is more like to the waking world than to a dream. Not so for Dwarves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Farewell to Lórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Breaking of the Fellowship]]"}}

=== The Two Towers ===

{{quote|Gondor! Gondor, between the Mountains and the Sea! West Wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree Fell like bright rain in gardens of the Kings of old. O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold! O Gondor, Gondor! Shall Men behold the Silver Tree, Or West Wind blow again between the Mountains and the Sea?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of the shadows the hobbits peeped, gazing back down the slope:little furtive figures that in the dim light looked like elf-children in the deeps of time peering out of the Wild Wood in wonder at their first dawn.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Uruk-hai]]"}}
----
{{quote|Do not be hasty, that is my motto.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Learn now the lore of Living Creatures! First name the four, the free peoples: Eldest of all, the elf-children; Dwarf the delver, dark are his houses; Ent the earthborn, old as mountains; Man the mortal, master of horses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|To Isengard! Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone; Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone, We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door; For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war! To land of gloom with tramp of doom, with roll of drum, we come, we come; To Isengard with doom we come! With doom we come, with doom we come!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Yes, I am white now," said Gandalf. "Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Dark Lord has Nine. But we have One, mightier than they: the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss, and they shall fear him. We will go where he leads.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|We are all friends here. Or should be; for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward, if we quarrel.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise now, arise, Riders of Théoden! Dire deeds awake, dark is it eastward. Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded! Forth Eorlingas!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|"So that is the King of Rohan," said Pippin in an undertone. "A fine old fellow. Very polite."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Road to Isengard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Often does hatred hurt itself!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Voice of Saruman]]"}}
----
{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
----
{{quote|Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Shadowfax tossed his head and cried aloud, as if a trumpet had summoned him to battle. Then he sprang forward. Fire flew from his feet; night rushed over him.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Taming of Sméagol]]"}}
----
{{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace-all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}
----
{{quote|"For myself," said Faramir, "I would see the White Tree in flower again in the courts of the kings, and the Silver Crown return, and Minas Tirith in peace: Minas Anor again as of old, full of light, high and fair, beautiful as a queen among other queens."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|Who can now hold the fords when the King of the Nine Riders comes? And other armies will come. I am too late. All is lost. I tarried on the way. All is lost. Even if my errand is performed, no one will ever know. There will be no one I can tell. It will be in vain.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|I wonder if we shall ever be put into songs or tales. We're in one, or course; but I mean: put into words, you know, told by the fireside, or read out of a great big book with red and black letters, years and years afterwards. And people will say: "Let's hear about Frodo and the Ring!" And they'll say: "Yes, that's one of my favourite stories. Frodo was very brave. wasn't he, dad?" "Yes, my boy, the famousest of the hobbits, and that's saying a lot."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}

=== The Return of The King ===

{{quote|I count many things: stars in sky, leaves on trees, men in the dark. You have a score of scores counted ten times and five. They have more. Big fight, and who will win? And many more walk round walls of Stone-houses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|<nowiki>'</nowiki>Master Meriadoc,' said Aragorn, 'if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called ''westmansweed'' by the vulgar, and ''galenas'' by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I. For I have not slept in such a bed as this, since I rode from Dunharrow, nor eaten since the dark before dawn.'|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gloin's son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire, nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Black Gate Opens]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}

=== The Hobbit ===

{{Quote|I have chosen Mr. Baggins and that ought to be enough for all of you. If I say he is a Burglar, a Burglar he is, or will be when the time comes. There is a lot more in him than you guess, and a deal more than he has any idea of himself.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[An Unexpected Party]]"}}
----
{{Quote|If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[The Return Journey]]"}}

=== The Silmarillion ===

{{Quote|There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made. And he spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before him, and he was glad.|{{S|I}}}}
----
{{Quote|Fëanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant. Finarfin was the fairest, and the most wise of heart.|{{S|5}}}}
----
{{Quote|Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue.|{{S|9}}}}
----
{{Quote|Last of all Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed; and it is sung that the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered, and each time that he slew Húrin cried 'Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!' Seventy times he uttered that cry; but they took him at last alive.|{{S|20}}}}
----
{{Quote|The Nazgûl were they; the Ringwraiths, the Enemy's most terribly servants; darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.|{{S|V}}}}

=== Unfinished Tales ===

{{quote|When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth.|''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', "[[The Quest of Erebor]]"}}

=== Comments ===
I'm not sure where to place this, but I'll put it here. I think the balance of the overall set of quotes is too far in favour of ''[[The Lord of the Rings|TLOTR]]'', as I think we should have more from other publications, especially ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Silmarillion]]''. What does everyone else think? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

:I agree. But it's just because I started with quotes from TLOTR. When I'm finished with that I will look for some from the other books. We certainly shouldn't stop when we have 52 quotes but should keep finding new ones until we have enough from every important book. And if you have more great quotes like our present FQ you could post them. --[[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 00:15, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf at The Last Debate ===
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|[[The Last Debate]]}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]]

:'''Agree''' - I like this, it reminds me of my favourite "''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us''". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:15, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf on the Departure of Bilbo ===
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- {{User:Breragor/sig}}

:'''Agree''': I like this quote because it tells how Frodo gets the ring. It's great how relaxed Gandalf tells Frodo that he has inherited the most powerful object in middle-earth... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I love how nonchalant Gandalf is here, it's a good reflection of his true character. If I can agree to my own nomination, then here it is! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 20:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway: Featured quotes]]

:'''Undecided''': Maybe just the the second line only (if we follow the rules above, we shouldn't have more than one paragraph). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2011-02-06T17:47:09Z

Eldarion Telcontar: some more quotes from The Two Towers

== List of 52 nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

* 48 done, (at least) 4 to go

=== The Fellowship of the Ring ===

{{quote|'Proudfeet!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavillion. His name, of course, was Proudfoot, and well merited; his feet were large, exceptionally furry, and both were on the table.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Shadow of the Past]]"}}
----
{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Seek for the Sword that was broken: In Imladris it dwells; There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells. There shall be shown a token That Doom is near at hand, For Isildur's Bane shall waken, And the Halfling forth shall stand.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|We must take a hard road, a road unforeseen. There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril — to Mordor. We must send the Ring to the Fire.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Fly you fools!" he cried, and was gone.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}
----
{{quote|Memory is not what the heart desires. That is only a mirror, be it clear as Kheled-zâram. Or so says the heart of Gimli the Dwarf. Elves may see things otherwise. Indeed I have heard that for them memory is more like to the waking world than to a dream. Not so for Dwarves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Farewell to Lórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Breaking of the Fellowship]]"}}

=== The Two Towers ===

{{quote|Gondor! Gondor, between the Mountains and the Sea! West Wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree Fell like bright rain in gardens of the Kings of old. O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold! O Gondor, Gondor! Shall Men behold the Silver Tree, Or West Wind blow again between the Mountains and the Sea?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of the shadows the hobbits peeped, gazing back down the slope:little furtive figures that in the dim light looked like elf-children in the deeps of time peering out of the Wild Wood in wonder at their first dawn.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Uruk-hai]]"}}
----
{{quote|Do not be hasty, that is my motto.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Learn now the lore of Living Creatures! First name the four, the free peoples: Eldest of all, the elf-children; Dwarf the delver, dark are his houses; Ent the earthborn, old as mountains; Man the mortal, master of horses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|To Isengard! Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone; Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone, We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door; For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war! To land of gloom with tramp of doom, with roll of drum, we come, we come; To Isengard with doom we come! With doom we come, with doom we come!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Yes, I am white now," said Gandalf. "Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Dark Lord has Nine. But we have One, mightier than they: the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss, and they shall fear him. We will go where he leads.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|We are all friends here. Or should be; for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward, if we quarrel.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise now, arise, Riders of Théoden! Dire deeds awake, dark is it eastward. Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded! Forth Eorlingas!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|"So that is the King of Rohan," said Pippin in an undertone. "A fine old fellow. Very polite."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Road to Isengard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Often does hatred hurt itself!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Voice of Saruman]]"}}
----
{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
----
{{quote|Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Shadowfax tossed his head and cried aloud, as if a trumpet had summoned him to battle. Then he sprang forward. Fire flew from his feet; night rushed over him.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Taming of Sméagol]]"}}
----
{{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace-all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}
----
{{quote|"For myself," said Faramir, "I would see the White Tree in flower again in the courts of the kings, and the Silver Crown return, and Minas Tirith in peace: Minas Anor again as of old, full of light, high and fair, beautiful as a queen among other queens."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}
----
{{quote|Who can now hold the fords when the King of the Nine Riders comes? And other armies will come. I am too late. All is lost. I tarried on the way. All is lost. Even if my errand is performed, no one will ever know. There will be no one I can tell. It will be in vain.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|I wonder if we shall ever be put into songs or tales. We're in one, or course; but I mean: put into words, you know, told by the fireside, or read out of a great big book with red and black letters, years and years afterwards. And people will say: "Let's hear about Frodo and the Ring!" And they'll say: "Yes, that's one of my favourite stories. Frodo was very brave. wasn't he, dad?" "Yes, my boy, the famousest of the hobbits, and that's saying a lot."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}
----
{{quote|For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Stairs of Cirith Ungol]]"}}

=== The Return of The King ===

{{quote|I count many things: stars in sky, leaves on trees, men in the dark. You have a score of scores counted ten times and five. They have more. Big fight, and who will win? And many more walk round walls of Stone-houses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|<nowiki>'</nowiki>Master Meriadoc,' said Aragorn, 'if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called ''westmansweed'' by the vulgar, and ''galenas'' by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I. For I have not slept in such a bed as this, since I rode from Dunharrow, nor eaten since the dark before dawn.'|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gloin's son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire, nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Black Gate Opens]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}

=== The Hobbit ===

{{Quote|If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[The Return Journey]]"}}

=== The Silmarillion ===

=== Unfinished Tales ===

{{quote|When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth.|''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', "[[The Quest of Erebor]]"}}

=== Comments ===
I'm not sure where to place this, but I'll put it here. I think the balance of the overall set of quotes is too far in favour of ''[[The Lord of the Rings|TLOTR]]'', as I think we should have more from other publications, especially ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Silmarillion]]''. What does everyone else think? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

:I agree. But it's just because I started with quotes from TLOTR. When I'm finished with that I will look for some from the other books. We certainly shouldn't stop when we have 52 quotes but should keep finding new ones until we have enough from every important book. And if you have more great quotes like our present FQ you could post them. --[[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 00:15, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf at The Last Debate ===
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|[[The Last Debate]]}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]]

:'''Agree''' - I like this, it reminds me of my favourite "''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us''". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:15, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf on the Departure of Bilbo ===
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- {{User:Breragor/sig}}

:'''Agree''': I like this quote because it tells how Frodo gets the ring. It's great how relaxed Gandalf tells Frodo that he has inherited the most powerful object in middle-earth... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I love how nonchalant Gandalf is here, it's a good reflection of his true character. If I can agree to my own nomination, then here it is! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 20:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway: Featured quotes]]

:'''Undecided''': Maybe just the the second line only (if we follow the rules above, we shouldn't have more than one paragraph). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

13 January

2011-01-14T20:33:04Z

Eldarion Telcontar: fixed noinclude

<noinclude>{{month|January}}

Events which occurred on {{PAGENAME}}.
</noinclude>
==On Earth==
* '''[[1977]]''' - [[Orlando Bloom]], who would play [[Legolas]] in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy]], is born in Canterbury.
* '''[[2009]]''' - ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]'' is published.
==On Arda==
* [[Third Age 3019|T.A. 3019]]:
** The [[Fellowship of the Ring]] is attacked a second time by a pack of [[Wargs]] in the early hours.
** They reach the [[West-gate of Moria]] at nightfall. The [[Watcher]] attacks and jams the West-gate.
** [[Bill the Pony]] leaves.
** [[Gollum]] begins to trail the [[Ring-bearer]].
<noinclude>
==Notes==
According to astronomy, the moon on that day of 3019, would have be a waning gibbous, which rises after midnight (and thus early on [[January 14]]) until it passes over the [[Misty Mountains]] and shine on the ''western'' side where the Gate was.

So the [[Appendix B|Tale of Years]] must be incorrect when it has the Company enter Moria before midnight on the 13th.<ref>http://shire-reckoning.com/moon.html</ref>
{{references}}
[[Category:Dates]]</noinclude>

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2011-01-10T00:15:37Z

Eldarion Telcontar: reply

== List of 52 nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

* 48 done, (at least) 4 to go

=== The Fellowship of the Ring ===

{{quote|'Proudfeet!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavillion. His name, of course, was Proudfoot, and well merited; his feet were large, exceptionally furry, and both were on the table.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Shadow of the Past]]"}}
----
{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Seek for the Sword that was broken: In Imladris it dwells; There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells. There shall be shown a token That Doom is near at hand, For Isildur's Bane shall waken, And the Halfling forth shall stand.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|We must take a hard road, a road unforeseen. There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril — to Mordor. We must send the Ring to the Fire.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Fly you fools!" he cried, and was gone.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}
----
{{quote|Memory is not what the heart desires. That is only a mirror, be it clear as Kheled-zâram. Or so says the heart of Gimli the Dwarf. Elves may see things otherwise. Indeed I have heard that for them memory is more like to the waking world than to a dream. Not so for Dwarves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Farewell to Lórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Breaking of the Fellowship]]"}}

=== The Two Towers ===

{{quote|Gondor! Gondor, between the Mountains and the Sea! West Wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree Fell like bright rain in gardens of the Kings of old. O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold! O Gondor, Gondor! Shall Men behold the Silver Tree, Or West Wind blow again between the Mountains and the Sea?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of the shadows the hobbits peeped, gazing back down the slope:little furtive figures that in the dim light looked like elf-children in the deeps of time peering out of the Wild Wood in wonder at their first dawn.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Uruk-hai]]"}}
----
{{quote|Do not be hasty, that is my motto.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Learn now the lore of Living Creatures! First name the four, the free peoples: Eldest of all, the elf-children; Dwarf the delver, dark are his houses; Ent the earthborn, old as mountains; Man the mortal, master of horses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|To Isengard! Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone; Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone, We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door; For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war! To land of gloom with tramp of doom, with roll of drum, we come, we come; To Isengard with doom we come! With doom we come, with doom we come!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Yes, I am white now," said Gandalf. "Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Dark Lord has Nine. But we have One, mightier than they: the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss, and they shall fear him. We will go where he leads.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|We are all friends here. Or should be; for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward, if we quarrel.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise now, arise, Riders of Théoden! Dire deeds awake, dark is it eastward. Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded! Forth Eorlingas!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|"So that is the King of Rohan," said Pippin in an undertone. "A fine old fellow. Very polite."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Road to Isengard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Often does hatred hurt itself!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Voice of Saruman]]"}}
----
{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
----
{{quote|Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Shadowfax tossed his head and cried aloud, as if a trumpet had summoned him to battle. Then he sprang forward. Fire flew from his feet; night rushed over him.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace-all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}

=== The Return of The King ===

{{quote|I count many things: stars in sky, leaves on trees, men in the dark. You have a score of scores counted ten times and five. They have more. Big fight, and who will win? And many more walk round walls of Stone-houses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|<nowiki>'</nowiki>Master Meriadoc,' said Aragorn, 'if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called ''westmansweed'' by the vulgar, and ''galenas'' by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I. For I have not slept in such a bed as this, since I rode from Dunharrow, nor eaten since the dark before dawn.'|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gloin's son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire, nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Black Gate Opens]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}

=== The Hobbit ===

{{Quote|If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[The Return Journey]]"}}

=== The Silmarillion ===

=== Unfinished Tales ===

{{quote|When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth.|''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', "[[The Quest of Erebor]]"}}

=== Comments ===
I'm not sure where to place this, but I'll put it here. I think the balance of the overall set of quotes is too far in favour of ''[[The Lord of the Rings|TLOTR]]'', as I think we should have more from other publications, especially ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Silmarillion]]''. What does everyone else think? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

:I agree. But it's just because I started with quotes from TLOTR. When I'm finished with that I will look for some from the other books. We certainly shouldn't stop when we have 52 quotes but should keep finding new ones until we have enough from every important book. And if you have more great quotes like our present FQ you could post them. --[[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 00:15, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf at The Last Debate ===
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|[[The Last Debate]]}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]]

:'''Agree''' - I like this, it reminds me of my favourite "''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us''". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:15, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf on the Departure of Bilbo ===
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- {{User:Breragor/sig}}

:'''Agree''': I like this quote because it tells how Frodo gets the ring. It's great how relaxed Gandalf tells Frodo that he has inherited the most powerful object in middle-earth... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I love how nonchalant Gandalf is here, it's a good reflection of his true character. If I can agree to my own nomination, then here it is! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 20:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway: Featured quotes]]

:'''Undecided''': Maybe just the the second line only (if we follow the rules above, we shouldn't have more than one paragraph). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/6 February 2011

2011-01-03T23:16:11Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

Please put any ideas for the agenda and any general discussion here. Remember please sign your name below if you are going to attend (or not).

==Attendees==
# {{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:49, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
# {{User:Mith/sig}} 22:16, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
# {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:19, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
# [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:16, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

==Non-Attendees==

==Ideas for Agenda==

==Discussion==

__NOTOC__

Tolkien Gateway:Featured articles/Nominations

2011-01-02T21:51:49Z

Eldarion Telcontar: agree

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2011-01-02T17:43:48Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

== List of 52 nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

* 48 done, (at least) 4 to go

=== The Fellowship of the Ring ===

{{quote|'Proudfeet!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavillion. His name, of course, was Proudfoot, and well merited; his feet were large, exceptionally furry, and both were on the table.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Shadow of the Past]]"}}
----
{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Seek for the Sword that was broken: In Imladris it dwells; There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells. There shall be shown a token That Doom is near at hand, For Isildur's Bane shall waken, And the Halfling forth shall stand.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|We must take a hard road, a road unforeseen. There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril — to Mordor. We must send the Ring to the Fire.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Fly you fools!" he cried, and was gone.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}
----
{{quote|Memory is not what the heart desires. That is only a mirror, be it clear as Kheled-zâram. Or so says the heart of Gimli the Dwarf. Elves may see things otherwise. Indeed I have heard that for them memory is more like to the waking world than to a dream. Not so for Dwarves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Farewell to Lórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Breaking of the Fellowship]]"}}

=== The Two Towers ===

{{quote|Gondor! Gondor, between the Mountains and the Sea! West Wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree Fell like bright rain in gardens of the Kings of old. O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold! O Gondor, Gondor! Shall Men behold the Silver Tree, Or West Wind blow again between the Mountains and the Sea?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of the shadows the hobbits peeped, gazing back down the slope:little furtive figures that in the dim light looked like elf-children in the deeps of time peering out of the Wild Wood in wonder at their first dawn.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Uruk-hai]]"}}
----
{{quote|Do not be hasty, that is my motto.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Learn now the lore of Living Creatures! First name the four, the free peoples: Eldest of all, the elf-children; Dwarf the delver, dark are his houses; Ent the earthborn, old as mountains; Man the mortal, master of horses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|To Isengard! Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone; Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone, We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door; For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war! To land of gloom with tramp of doom, with roll of drum, we come, we come; To Isengard with doom we come! With doom we come, with doom we come!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Yes, I am white now," said Gandalf. "Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Dark Lord has Nine. But we have One, mightier than they: the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss, and they shall fear him. We will go where he leads.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|We are all friends here. Or should be; for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward, if we quarrel.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise now, arise, Riders of Théoden! Dire deeds awake, dark is it eastward. Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded! Forth Eorlingas!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|"So that is the King of Rohan," said Pippin in an undertone. "A fine old fellow. Very polite."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Road to Isengard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Often does hatred hurt itself!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Voice of Saruman]]"}}
----
{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
----
{{quote|Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Shadowfax tossed his head and cried aloud, as if a trumpet had summoned him to battle. Then he sprang forward. Fire flew from his feet; night rushed over him.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace-all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}

=== The Return of The King ===

{{quote|I count many things: stars in sky, leaves on trees, men in the dark. You have a score of scores counted ten times and five. They have more. Big fight, and who will win? And many more walk round walls of Stone-houses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|<nowiki>'</nowiki>Master Meriadoc,' said Aragorn, 'if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called ''westmansweed'' by the vulgar, and ''galenas'' by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I. For I have not slept in such a bed as this, since I rode from Dunharrow, nor eaten since the dark before dawn.'|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gloin's son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire, nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Black Gate Opens]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}

=== The Hobbit ===

{{Quote|If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[The Return Journey]]"}}

=== The Silmarillion ===

{{quote|[[Morgoth]] held hurled aloft [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond, Hammer of the Underworld]], and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time [[Fingolfin]] leaped away, as a lightning shoots from under dark cloud; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of [[Angband]] fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the [[Northlands]].|{{S|Fingolfin}}}}

=== Unfinished Tales ===

{{quote|When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth.|''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', "[[The Quest of Erebor]]"}}

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Fingolfin v. Morgoth ===
{{quote|[[Morgoth]] held hurled aloft [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond, Hammer of the Underworld]], and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time [[Fingolfin]] leaped away, as a lightning shoots from under dark cloud; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of [[Angband]] fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the [[Northlands]].|{{S|Fingolfin}}}}

I know it's a longer one - and I don't mind it being made shorter (in fact it probably is a bit too long; maybe from "''Many times...''" onwards) - but I just love it because I have a natural bias towards Fingolfin! Indeed, any of the quotes from this paragraph or the subsequent couple of paragraphs would, I think, be excellent because it captures a key even in the history of [[Arda]] with Tolkien's excellent literary skill. Also, would be good to have a quote about a non-[[Third Age]] event. '''Proposed by:''' --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I like the quote in full. It gives a good idea of the tone of Sil. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:32, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': Great Quote! Good to have a quote from The Silmarillion... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 21:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf at The Last Debate ===
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|[[The Last Debate]]}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]]

:'''Agree''' - I like this, it reminds me of my favourite "''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us''". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:15, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf on the Departure of Bilbo ===
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- {{User:Breragor/sig}}

:'''Agree''': I like this quote because it tells how Frodo gets the ring. It's great how relaxed Gandalf tells Frodo that he has inherited the most powerful object in middle-earth... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I love how nonchalant Gandalf is here, it's a good reflection of his true character. If I can agree to my own nomination, then here it is! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 20:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway: Featured quotes]]

:'''Undecided''': Maybe just the the second line only (if we follow the rules above, we shouldn't have more than one paragraph). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2011-01-02T17:40:34Z

Eldarion Telcontar: added quotes

== List of 52 nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

* 48 done, (at least) 4 to go

=== The Fellowship of the Ring ===

{{quote|'Proudfeet!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavillion. His name, of course, was Proudfoot, and well merited; his feet were large, exceptionally furry, and both were on the table.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Shadow of the Past]]"}}
----
{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Seek for the Sword that was broken: In Imladris it dwells; There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells. There shall be shown a token That Doom is near at hand, For Isildur's Bane shall waken, And the Halfling forth shall stand.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|We must take a hard road, a road unforeseen. There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril — to Mordor. We must send the Ring to the Fire.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Fly you fools!" he cried, and was gone.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}
----
{{quote|Memory is not what the heart desires. That is only a mirror, be it clear as Kheled-zâram. Or so says the heart of Gimli the Dwarf. Elves may see things otherwise. Indeed I have heard that for them memory is more like to the waking world than to a dream. Not so for Dwarves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Farewell to Lórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Breaking of the Fellowship]]"}}

=== The Two Towers ===

{{quote|Gondor! Gondor, between the Mountains and the Sea! West Wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree Fell like bright rain in gardens of the Kings of old. O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold! O Gondor, Gondor! Shall Men behold the Silver Tree, Or West Wind blow again between the Mountains and the Sea?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Riders of Rohan]]"}}
----
{{quote|Out of the shadows the hobbits peeped, gazing back down the slope:little furtive figures that in the dim light looked like elf-children in the deeps of time peering out of the Wild Wood in wonder at their first dawn.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Uruk-Hai]]"}}
----
{{quote|Do not be hasty, that is my motto.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Learn now the lore of Living Creatures! First name the four, the free peoples: Eldest of all, the elf-children; Dwarf the delver, dark are his houses; Ent the earthborn, old as mountains; Man the mortal, master of horses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|To Isengard! Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone; Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone, We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door; For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war! To land of gloom with tramp of doom, with roll of drum, we come, we come; To Isengard with doom we come! With doom we come, with doom we come!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Treebeard]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Yes, I am white now," said Gandalf. "Indeed I am Saruman, one might almost say, Saruman as he should have been."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|The Dark Lord has Nine. But we have One, mightier than they: the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss, and they shall fear him. We will go where he leads.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The White Rider]]"}}
----
{{quote|Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|We are all friends here. Or should be; for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward, if we quarrel.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Arise now, arise, Riders of Théoden! Dire deeds awake, dark is it eastward. Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded! Forth Eorlingas!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|"So that is the King of Rohan," said Pippin in an undertone. "A fine old fellow. Very polite."|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Road to Isengard]]"}}
----
{{quote|Often does hatred hurt itself!|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Voice of Saruman]]"}}
----
{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
----
{{quote|Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|Shadowfax tossed his head and cried aloud, as if a trumpet had summoned him to battle. Then he sprang forward. Fire flew from his feet; night rushed over him.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace-all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}

=== The Return of The King ===

{{quote|I count many things: stars in sky, leaves on trees, men in the dark. You have a score of scores counted ten times and five. They have more. Big fight, and who will win? And many more walk round walls of Stone-houses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|<nowiki>'</nowiki>Master Meriadoc,' said Aragorn, 'if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called ''westmansweed'' by the vulgar, and ''galenas'' by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I. For I have not slept in such a bed as this, since I rode from Dunharrow, nor eaten since the dark before dawn.'|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gloin's son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire, nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Black Gate Opens]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}

=== The Hobbit ===

{{Quote|If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[The Return Journey]]"}}

=== The Silmarillion ===

{{quote|[[Morgoth]] held hurled aloft [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond, Hammer of the Underworld]], and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time [[Fingolfin]] leaped away, as a lightning shoots from under dark cloud; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of [[Angband]] fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the [[Northlands]].|{{S|Fingolfin}}}}

=== Unfinished Tales ===

{{quote|When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth.|''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', "[[The Quest of Erebor]]"}}

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Fingolfin v. Morgoth ===
{{quote|[[Morgoth]] held hurled aloft [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond, Hammer of the Underworld]], and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time [[Fingolfin]] leaped away, as a lightning shoots from under dark cloud; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of [[Angband]] fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the [[Northlands]].|{{S|Fingolfin}}}}

I know it's a longer one - and I don't mind it being made shorter (in fact it probably is a bit too long; maybe from "''Many times...''" onwards) - but I just love it because I have a natural bias towards Fingolfin! Indeed, any of the quotes from this paragraph or the subsequent couple of paragraphs would, I think, be excellent because it captures a key even in the history of [[Arda]] with Tolkien's excellent literary skill. Also, would be good to have a quote about a non-[[Third Age]] event. '''Proposed by:''' --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I like the quote in full. It gives a good idea of the tone of Sil. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:32, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': Great Quote! Good to have a quote from The Silmarillion... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 21:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf at The Last Debate ===
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|[[The Last Debate]]}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]]

:'''Agree''' - I like this, it reminds me of my favourite "''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us''". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:15, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf on the Departure of Bilbo ===
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- {{User:Breragor/sig}}

:'''Agree''': I like this quote because it tells how Frodo gets the ring. It's great how relaxed Gandalf tells Frodo that he has inherited the most powerful object in middle-earth... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I love how nonchalant Gandalf is here, it's a good reflection of his true character. If I can agree to my own nomination, then here it is! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 20:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway: Featured quotes]]

:'''Undecided''': Maybe just the the second line only (if we follow the rules above, we shouldn't have more than one paragraph). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2011-01-02T17:15:44Z

Eldarion Telcontar: added quotes, rearrangement

== List of 52 nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

* 32 done, (at least) 20 to go

=== The Fellowship of the Ring ===

{{quote|'Proudfeet!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavillion. His name, of course, was Proudfoot, and well merited; his feet were large, exceptionally furry, and both were on the table.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Shadow of the Past]]"}}
----
{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Seek for the Sword that was broken: In Imladris it dwells; There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells. There shall be shown a token That Doom is near at hand, For Isildur's Bane shall waken, And the Halfling forth shall stand.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|We must take a hard road, a road unforeseen. There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril — to Mordor. We must send the Ring to the Fire.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|"You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|"Fly you fools!" he cried, and was gone.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]"}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Breaking of the Fellowship]]"}}

=== The Two Towers ===

{{quote|I count many things: stars in sky, leaves on trees, men in the dark. You have a score of scores counted ten times and five. They have more. Big fight, and who will win? And many more walk round walls of Stone-houses.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
----
{{quote|Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace-all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}

=== The Return of The King ===

{{quote|But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|<nowiki>'</nowiki>Master Meriadoc,' said Aragorn, 'if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called ''westmansweed'' by the vulgar, and ''galenas'' by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I. For I have not slept in such a bed as this, since I rode from Dunharrow, nor eaten since the dark before dawn.'|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gloin's son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire, nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Black Gate Opens]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}

=== The Hobbit ===

{{Quote|If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[The Return Journey]]"}}

=== The Silmarillion ===

{{quote|[[Morgoth]] held hurled aloft [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond, Hammer of the Underworld]], and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time [[Fingolfin]] leaped away, as a lightning shoots from under dark cloud; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of [[Angband]] fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the [[Northlands]].|{{S|Fingolfin}}}}

=== Unfinished Tales ===

{{quote|When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth.|''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', "[[The Quest of Erebor]]"}}

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Fingolfin v. Morgoth ===
{{quote|[[Morgoth]] held hurled aloft [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond, Hammer of the Underworld]], and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time [[Fingolfin]] leaped away, as a lightning shoots from under dark cloud; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of [[Angband]] fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the [[Northlands]].|{{S|Fingolfin}}}}

I know it's a longer one - and I don't mind it being made shorter (in fact it probably is a bit too long; maybe from "''Many times...''" onwards) - but I just love it because I have a natural bias towards Fingolfin! Indeed, any of the quotes from this paragraph or the subsequent couple of paragraphs would, I think, be excellent because it captures a key even in the history of [[Arda]] with Tolkien's excellent literary skill. Also, would be good to have a quote about a non-[[Third Age]] event. '''Proposed by:''' --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I like the quote in full. It gives a good idea of the tone of Sil. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:32, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': Great Quote! Good to have a quote from The Silmarillion... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 21:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf at The Last Debate ===
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|[[The Last Debate]]}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]]

:'''Agree''' - I like this, it reminds me of my favourite "''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us''". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:15, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf on the Departure of Bilbo ===
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- {{User:Breragor/sig}}

:'''Agree''': I like this quote because it tells how Frodo gets the ring. It's great how relaxed Gandalf tells Frodo that he has inherited the most powerful object in middle-earth... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I love how nonchalant Gandalf is here, it's a good reflection of his true character. If I can agree to my own nomination, then here it is! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 20:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway: Featured quotes]]

:'''Undecided''': Maybe just the the second line only (if we follow the rules above, we shouldn't have more than one paragraph). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/2 January 2011

2010-12-27T11:08:37Z

Eldarion Telcontar: attendance

Please put any ideas for the agenda and any general discussion here. Remember please sign your name below if you are going to attend (or not).

==Attendees==
# {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:06, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
# {{User:Mith/sig}} 22:17, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
# [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 23:36, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
# [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 11:08, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

==Non-Attendees==

==Ideas for Agenda==
* Final verdict on the following: delete, rewrite or keep? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:06, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
** [[The White Council screenplay]]
** [[The Hobbit screenplay]]
** [[The Lay of Leithian screenplay]]
** [[Narn i Chîn Húrin screenplay]]
** [[Fall of Gondolin screenplay]]
** [[The Quenta Silmarillion Series Screenplay]]
** [[Peter Jackson's The Fellowship of the Ring screenplay]]
** [[Peter Jackson's The Two Towers screenplay]]
** [[Peter Jackson's The Return of the King screenplay]]
* Final verdict on the [[Collectibles]] portal; delete? If so, should we replace it with a Fandom/Tolkien Societies portal? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:06, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
**I'd delete all the above including the Collectibles portal. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 22:17, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

==Discussion==
* If January 2 does not work out, we can always do this January 9. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:06, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

__NOTOC__

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2010-12-23T22:30:24Z

Eldarion Telcontar: 5 more

== List of 52 nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
----
{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|[[Morgoth]] held hurled aloft [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond, Hammer of the Underworld]], and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time [[Fingolfin]] leaped away, as a lightning shoots from under dark cloud; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of [[Angband]] fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the [[Northlands]].|{{S|Fingolfin}}}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}

----
{{quote|'Proudfeet!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavillion. His name, of course, was Proudfoot, and well merited; his feet were large, exceptionally furry, and both were on the table.|"[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace-all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.|"[[Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit]]"}}
----
{{quote|<nowiki>'</nowiki>Master Meriadoc,' said Aragorn, 'if you think that I have passed through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called ''westmansweed'' by the vulgar, and ''galenas'' by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I. For I have not slept in such a bed as this, since I rode from Dunharrow, nor eaten since the dark before dawn.'|"[[The Houses of Healing]]"}}
----
{{quote|When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth.|"[[The Quest of Erebor]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.|"[[The Scouring of the Shire]]"}}
----
{{quote|I count many things: stars in sky, leaves on trees, men in the dark. You have a score of scores counted ten times and five. They have more. Big fight, and who will win? And many more walk round walls of Stone-houses.|"[[The Ride of the Rohirrim]]"}}
----
{{quote|But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.|"[[The Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]"}}
----
{{quote|For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gloin's son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.|"[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire, nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice.|"[[The Black Gate Opens]]"}}
----
{{Quote|[...] let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall.|"[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.|"[[The Shadow of the Past]]"}}
----
{{quote|Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree.|"[[The Palantír]]"}}
----
{{quote|The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.|"[[Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!|"[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!|"[[The Breaking of the Fellowship]]"}}
----
{{quote|Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.|"[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Fingolfin v. Morgoth ===
{{quote|[[Morgoth]] held hurled aloft [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond, Hammer of the Underworld]], and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time [[Fingolfin]] leaped away, as a lightning shoots from under dark cloud; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of [[Angband]] fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the [[Northlands]].|{{S|Fingolfin}}}}

I know it's a longer one - and I don't mind it being made shorter (in fact it probably is a bit too long; maybe from "''Many times...''" onwards) - but I just love it because I have a natural bias towards Fingolfin! Indeed, any of the quotes from this paragraph or the subsequent couple of paragraphs would, I think, be excellent because it captures a key even in the history of [[Arda]] with Tolkien's excellent literary skill. Also, would be good to have a quote about a non-[[Third Age]] event. '''Proposed by:''' --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I like the quote in full. It gives a good idea of the tone of Sil. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:32, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': Great Quote! Good to have a quote from The Silmarillion... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 21:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf at The Last Debate ===
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|[[The Last Debate]]}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]]

:'''Agree''' - I like this, it reminds me of my favourite "''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us''". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:15, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf on the Departure of Bilbo ===
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- {{User:Breragor/sig}}

:'''Agree''': I like this quote because it tells how Frodo gets the ring. It's great how relaxed Gandalf tells Frodo that he has inherited the most powerful object in middle-earth... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I love how nonchalant Gandalf is here, it's a good reflection of his true character. If I can agree to my own nomination, then here it is! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 20:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway: Featured quotes]]

:'''Undecided''': Maybe just the the second line only (if we follow the rules above, we shouldn't have more than one paragraph). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2010-12-20T22:26:25Z

Eldarion Telcontar: Started List of 52 Featured Quotes

== List of 52 nominated quotes ==

In the last two meetings it was decided to draw up a list of 52 or more quotes in order to have fresh quotes for an entire year. So anyone should feel free to add quotes to the following list or comment on them:

{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The King of the Golden Hall]]"}}
----
{{quote|Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Palantir]]"}}
----
{{quote|He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Council of Elrond]]"}}
----
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|''[[The Return of the King]]'', "[[The Last Debate]]"}}
----
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}
----
{{quote|[[Morgoth]] held hurled aloft [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond, Hammer of the Underworld]], and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time [[Fingolfin]] leaped away, as a lightning shoots from under dark cloud; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of [[Angband]] fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the [[Northlands]].|{{S|Fingolfin}}}}
----
{{quote|Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[Lothlórien (chapter)|Lothlórien]]"}}
----
{{quote|For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves.|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[The Great River]]"}}
----
{{quote|I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.|''[[The Two Towers]]'', "[[The Window on the West]]"}}

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:'''Disagree'''; I think a quote which is more "profound" on the nature of [[Hobbits]] would be better --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Fingolfin v. Morgoth ===
{{quote|[[Morgoth]] held hurled aloft [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond, Hammer of the Underworld]], and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time [[Fingolfin]] leaped away, as a lightning shoots from under dark cloud; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of [[Angband]] fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the [[Northlands]].|{{S|Fingolfin}}}}

I know it's a longer one - and I don't mind it being made shorter (in fact it probably is a bit too long; maybe from "''Many times...''" onwards) - but I just love it because I have a natural bias towards Fingolfin! Indeed, any of the quotes from this paragraph or the subsequent couple of paragraphs would, I think, be excellent because it captures a key even in the history of [[Arda]] with Tolkien's excellent literary skill. Also, would be good to have a quote about a non-[[Third Age]] event. '''Proposed by:''' --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I like the quote in full. It gives a good idea of the tone of Sil. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:32, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': Great Quote! Good to have a quote from The Silmarillion... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 21:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf at The Last Debate ===
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|[[The Last Debate]]}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]]

:'''Agree''' - I like this, it reminds me of my favourite "''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us''". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:15, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

==Gandalf on the Departure of Bilbo==
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- {{User:Breragor/sig}}

:'''Agree''': I like this quote because it tells how Frodo gets the ring. It's great how relaxed Gandalf tells Frodo that he has inherited the most powerful object in middle-earth... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I love how nonchalant Gandalf is here, it's a good reflection of his true character. If I can agree to my own nomination, then here it is! --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 20:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway: Featured quotes]]

:'''Undecided''': Maybe just the the second line only (if we follow the rules above, we shouldn't have more than one paragraph). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway:Community Portal

2010-12-06T16:02:25Z

Eldarion Telcontar: meeting update

{|style="width:100%;margin-top:+1em;margin-bottom:+.7em;background-color:#ffffff;border:1px solid #ccc;-moz-border-radius:10px"
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*Tolkien Gateway successfully held its [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 December 2010|fifteenth meeting]] on Sunday the 5th of December 2010.
*You can now join the Tolkien Gateway on Facebook! [http://www.facebook.com/shaungunner Mith] has set up a [http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=133015453387353 Facebook group for TG] in order to advertise the wiki to Facebook users; do join and invite others.
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[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 December 2010

2010-12-05T10:51:17Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

Please put any ideas for the agenda and any general discussion here. Remember please sign your name below if you are going to attend (or not).

==Attendees==
# {{User:Mith/sig}} 15:48, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
# --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:41, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
# --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:32, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
# --[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 7:48, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
# --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:44, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
# --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 06:17, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
#[[User:Sage|Sage]] 02:06, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

==Non-Attendees==
* <s>[[wikipedia:Sinterklaas|Probably not]]. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)</s>
* Same here, because I probaly celebrate Sinterklaas (see Ederchil's link) with my family. However we maybe move it to the 4th. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]]
* May be that I can attend. -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 10:51, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

==Ideas for Agenda==
* Update from [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] on technical issues, including allowing anonymous editors. --{{User:Mith/sig}}
* Discuss a standard for language articles (see [[Talk:And]] and [[User talk:Sage#Elvish roots/stems]]). --{{User:Mith/sig}}
* Allowing admins to update the FA/FQ on the [[Main Page]] in order to keep it fresh (in recognition of poor participation in both). --{{User:Mith/sig}}
* What is our strategy with [[The Hobbit films]]? Can we use it to improve [[Tolkien Gateway:Membership Growth|poor membership growth]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}}
* A naming standard for Hobbits; both the numbered ones and the maiden name/married name question again. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:44, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
** Similarly TA/SR dates. --{{User:Mith/sig}}

==Discussion==
* If this Sunday 5th proves inconvenient, I think we should move this back a week. --{{User:Mith/sig}}

__NOTOC__

Tolkien Gateway:Community Portal

2010-10-06T17:53:54Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

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*Tolkien Gateway successfully held its [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/3 October 2010|fourteenth meeting]] on Sunday the 3rd of October 2010.
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Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/3 October 2010

2010-10-06T17:14:30Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

The Tolkien Gateway's fourteenth [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings|meeting]] will take place on Sunday the 3rd of October 2010. If you are going to attend the meeting please sign your name on this page's [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|talk page]], likewise also inform us if you are unable to attend the meeting. To give your ideas for discussion then see [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|here]].

To access the meeting you can use your own [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|IRC Client]], or use a browser based client (Mibbit) by clicking [http://widget.mibbit.com/?server=irc.tolkiengateway.net&channel=%23TolkienGateway%2C%23Wiki here].

==Transcript==
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/3 October 2010/Transcript]]
----

{|width="100%"
|-
| align="center"|'''Tolkien Gateway'''
|-
| align="center"|Start at ''Sunday 3rd October 2010'' 7pm UTC on [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|IRC]] Channel.
|-
| align="center"|
{{Meetings}}
|-
|

|}

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway Meetings|2010 10 03]]

Tolkien Gateway:Meetings

2010-10-06T17:12:45Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

'''Tolkien Gateway: Meetings''' is an attempt which hopes to bring editors of the encyclopaedia into a monthly chat to discuss the progress as well as the future of the site. Meetings will take place on our IRC network and you can check the time of the meeting by clicking on a link to the next meeting below. Before the meeting, users can give their ideas for discussion by clicking on the link to the next meeting below. For those unable to attend a meeting, you will still be allowed to write down thoughts prior to the meeting which will be brought up by someone else. Transcripts will also be available after the meeting for non-attendees to read.
==Current Meeting Time==
Each meeting will take place on the first Sunday of every new month.

<center>Sundays, 7pm UTC on [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|IRC]] Channel.</center>

{{meetings}}
==Upcoming Meetings==

==Previous Meetings==
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/3 October 2010|Sunday 3rd October 2010]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/3 October 2010/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010|Sunday 5th September 2010]]''' - ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 September 2010|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010/Transcript|Transcript]])
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/1 August 2010|Sunday 1st August 2010]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/1 August 2010|Talk page]])
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/25 July 2010|Sunday 25th July 2010]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/25 July 2010|Talk page]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/27 June 2010|Sunday 27th June 2010]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/27 June 2010|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/27 June 2010/Transcript|Transcript]])
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/13 April 2009|Monday 13th April 2009]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/13 April 2009|Talk page]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 April 2009|5th April 2009]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 April 2009|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/23 November 2008|23rd November 2008]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/23 November 2008|Talk page]])
*16th November 2008 - ''Meeting Cancelled''
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/9 November 2008|9th November 2008]] - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/9 November 2008|Talk page]])
*2nd November 2008 - ''Meeting Cancelled''
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/26 October 2008|26th October 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/26 October 2008|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/19 October 2008|19th October 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/19 October 2008|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/12 October 2008|12th October 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/12 October 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/12 October 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*5th October 2008 - ''Meeting Cancelled'' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 October 2008|Talk page]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/28 September 2008|28th September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/28 September 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/28 September 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/21 September 2008|21st September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/21 September 2008|Talk page]]; No Transcript)
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/14 September 2008|14th September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/14 September 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/14 September 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/7 September 2008|7th September 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/7 September 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/7 September 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/31 August 2008|31st August 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/31 August 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/31 August 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/24 August 2008|24th August 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/24 August 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/24 August 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])
*'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/17 August 2008|17th August 2008]]''' ([[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/17 August 2008|Talk page]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/17 August 2008/Transcript|Transcript]])

==Connecting==
To join the meetings, you will need to use an IRC client to access the correct server and channels. To do this, you can use an IRC client, or you can access it using the browser-based client, Mibbit:
*[http://widget.mibbit.com/?server=irc.tolkiengateway.net&channel=%23TolkienGateway%2C%23Wiki Mibbit] - Browser-based Client

There is a variety of different IRC clients available for you to use, more prominent ones include:
*[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/16/ Chatzilla] - As an add-on to Firefox.
*[http://xchat.org/ XChat] - Free, stand-alone application.
*[http://www.icechat.net/site/ IceChat] - Free, stand-alone application.
*[http://www.bersirc.org/index.php/home Bersirc] - Free, stand-alone application.
*[http://www.mirc.com/ mIRC] - Shareware.
*[http://colloquy.info/ Colloquy] - For Mac users.

After you have installed the IRC Client, you will need to set it up to access Tolkien Gateway IRC channels; the following information should be useful:
*'''Server:''' irc.tolkiengateway.net
*'''Port:''' 6667
*'''Channel:''' /join #Wiki

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway Meetings| ]]

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010

2010-09-29T16:24:17Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

Please put any ideas for the agenda and any general discussion here. Remember please sign your name below if you are going to attend (or not).

==Attendees==
# --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 15:06, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
# --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:53, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
# --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:28, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
# --[[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 16:24, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

==Non-Attendees==

==Ideas for Agenda==
* Update on server issues, extensions etc.
* New policy on [[Tolkien Gateway:Featured articles|Featured articles]] and [[Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes|Featured quotes]]
* Should we kill [[Tolkien Gateway:Featured Gatekeepers|Featured Gatekeepers]]?
* '''Discuss the future of TG''': should we move the database and images to a new server? Implications? New name? What does Hyarion (and other editors) think about this? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:28, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
**Fully support. --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:25, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

==Discussion==

__NOTOC__

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/25 July 2010

2010-07-24T19:45:00Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

Please put any ideas for the agenda and any general discussion here. Remember please sign your name below if you are going to attend.

==Attendees==
# {{User:Mith/sig}} 19:38, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
# {{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 20:35, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
#<s> [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 10:44, 17 July 2010 (UTC)</s> --> I'm so sorry but I cannot attend the meeting after all. :(
# --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:01, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
# {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:50, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
==Ideas for Agenda==
*''Solving the image upload problem''. Perhaps not much to discuss (and hopefully it will be fixed before the meeting). --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:13, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

==Discussion==

Talk:Main Page

2010-07-17T10:57:54Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

'''This Talk page is for discussing the Main Page and general comments. To discuss the development of Tolkien Gateway itself, please see [[Forum:Council]].'''

==Good Ideas==

As my knowledge of all things [[Tolkien]] is far inferior to that of some things [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki Wiki], I want to suggest some things...

First of all: Page titles such as [[Barahir grandson of Faramir]] should be avoided as much as possible. Only when there are more than one [[Barahir]]s should this be used. If you have to do this, do it this way: '''Barahir (grandson of Faramir)''' so you don't forget whether or not you added that dratted comma...

Further it might be an idea to add a sort of "pub" for this kind of discussions. - [[User:Bokkie|Bokkie]] 18:04, 3 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Great points. Barahir is one of those names that are used quite frequently, i.e. [[Barahir son of Bregor]], [[Barahir son of Hador]], [[Barahir grandson of
Faramir]], etc. In the beginning I was debating whether to do the parenthesis or not, but now that you bring it up, it is most likely something that we need to use.

A portal for discussion other than the main page is a good idea too, I'll try and think of a good name for something, although [[Portal]] might work, heh.

Thanks for your comments. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:45, 5 Sep 2005 (EDT)
==Feedback==
Very intresting wiki site!... Thanx! --[[User:213.228.84.66|213.228.84.66]] 18:31, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

: Thanks for the compliment :) It's people like you who keep me motivated. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 18:45, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

I've got to second this user's enthusiasim. I've recently gone back into the Silmarillion and stumbled upon this wiki. It's amazing. Far better than others I've seen. I especially appreciate the panoply of images. It really gives a kick to a 300 word article on some third string elf who died in the First Age. I also want to compliment you people on the new skin. It's both more stylized and more functional than the previous one. This just keeps getting better and better. Thanks a million. --[[User:Kosure|Kosure]] 14:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

:Hi Kosure, thanks for your feedback, it is statements like yours which bring a smile to our face and encourage us to improve the wiki even more, as we still have so far to go. We look forward to seeing you around in the future. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

== license? ==
Is the content here GFDL? [[User:Gimli|Gimli]] 07:18, 6 March 2006 (EST)

:What do you mean? --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 07:36, 6 March 2006 (EST)

::I mean is it available under the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License - can it be copied to other sites under the provisions of that licence? Also if content has been copied from wikipedia, shouldnt it be acknowledged? [[User:Gimli|Gimli]] 08:30, 6 March 2006 (EST)

:::Hello [[User:Gimli|Gimli]], yes our content is under the same license, GNU FDL as [http://www.wikipedia.org Wikipedia]. Any articles derived from Wikipedia will be rewritten so we have no plans to add an acknowledgement on the articles at this time. [http://lotr.wikicities Wikicities] is free to copy our content but it is disappointing to see so many wikis working against eachother. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 10:26, 6 March 2006 (EST)

::::Hi Hyarion, I was doing alot of work on the [http://lotr.wikicities.com/wiki lotr wiki] without realising this site existed until a few days ago. now Im not sure what to do since the lotr wikicities community is going fairly well but has nowhere near as many articles as here. not sure if its worth trying to copy or what - perhaps there could be some way we could agree to format/arrange articles differently to justify having 2 tolkien wikis [[User:Gimli|Gimli]] 19:47, 6 March 2006 (EST)

:::::Ya I'm not really sure either. There's also [http://www.thetolkienwiki.org The Tolkien Wiki] and a couple other wikis out there too. I honestly can't think of any aspects the two wikis would differ on off the top of my head but let me know if you think of anything. I know Robin from the lotr wiki said he was going to concentrate on [[The Lord of the Rings]] and since we cover more than just that they didn't want to merge. Competition is always nice but I just don't like watching us waste our time doing the same things. Let me know what I can do. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 20:39, 6 March 2006 (EST)

::::::That sounds alright to me especially since I am not very familiar with [[The Silmarillion]] related things - I guess just because of the wikis names wikicities could focus on LOTR and you on JRR Tolkien himself? [[User:Gimli|Gimli]] 02:53, 9 March 2006 (EST)

::::::: Heh, unfortunately that would leave us with around 100 articles :p. Our goal since we started has been to focus on everything related to [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], including his works, non-canon material, secondary material, collectibles, languages, films, the fans, etc. As we've devoted so much time to this already I think we will be continuing on this path, sorry. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:36, 9 March 2006 (EST)

== Main page redesign ==

I'm trying to redesign the main page a bit so as to not scare off any visitors. If you have any suggestions just let me know and I'll add them. The introduction text should probably be rewritten, possibly shorter. I also think instead of a featured image and a featured article we could showcase a featured article with an image from that article, and a bit more text directly from the article. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:12, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

:IMO, the link to '''Welcome''' in the opening sentence is unnecessary, as the welcome message is just below it. Coupling the featured picture to the featured article is a sound idea if you'd ask me; gives the page some more coherence *thumbs up*. --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 17:04, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

::Hm, good point I can take it off for now, eventually I'd like to remove the welcome statement from the main page and add it to the welcome page, and then also add a [[Tolkien Gateway]] page with information about the site if the welcome is not enough (and link to that as well). Then we can focus on news / featured articles / navigation links, hopefully it will be self-explanatory enough that people won't get confused, though I doubt many even read the paragraph. I'll try and get a Featured article page rotation going so people can submit possible featured articles, vote on them, and move them onto the main page a bit faster, as now it's just random. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:10, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

:::Personnally, I've no problem with a randomly chosen featured article. Why complicate things with voting and stuff? It also will point people to lesser know articles. If it's really a daily new featured article, it will liven things up a bit. Why not make it an hourly featured article, will pace the rotations circle a bit up (by a factor of 24, to be precise)! --[[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 17:16, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

::::Hehe, hm, definitely a thought. I'll see if I can rig something to do it automatically but we might have to change it manually. What we could do is have [[Featured article/April 23 2006]] and the main page could have <nowiki>[[:Featured article/{{CURRENTDAY}}]]</nowiki>. I think one reason people do vote for Featured articles as it allows competition for users to rewrite and tidy up articles in hopes that their work would be featured on the main page. And if we did this we could also have an Improvement center where we post articles that need to be improved. But combining the two by doing random featured articles would work great too. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:22, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

== Purpose of site? ==

This is going to come across badly, I'm sure, so I apologize in advance for my skepticism. But, er, what exactly is the purpose of the Tolkien Gateway as opposed to the various other Tolkien wikis online (or, for that matter, Wikipedia itself)? In particular, it looks like a number of the articles here are at least currently based on the corresponding entries from Wikipedia. What was the argument for branching them off to form a separate site rather than simply improving them in place? (Not that I object to the impulse to create one's own site, mind you! But I feel some level of concern about fragmentation of effort.) [http://tolkien.slimy.com/ Steuard] --[[User:128.135.152.14|128.135.152.14]] 12:24, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

===Hyarion's response===
''Adding my own header as it looks like I've gone off and written a novel''

Hello Steuard, what an honor to have you here, make yourself at home :) Don't worry, your question doesn't come across badly as why we are here is an important question.

Your first question is why should we be here when there are other Tolkien wikis, good question. We’ve been around for over 3 years now, well before much of the hype surrounding wikis and when everyone and their grandmother decided to have one. With almost 4,500 articles we are currently the largest and most active Tolkien-related wiki or encyclopedia for that matter. With hundreds of updates a day, we are really growing fast and it becomes much more than one person could do on their own.

There are a couple other wikis that I have knowledge of, [http://www.thetolkienwiki.org The Tolkien Wiki] being one. I’m not a fan of that particular engine and unfortunately the activity is minimal but Walter is a great guy. Then there is [http://lotr.wikia.com lotr.wikia.com] which started later and though at first they stated they were concentrating on [[The Lord of the Rings]] it seems they have since changed and now have MERP related articles, I'm not sure where they are heading to be honest (not to sound rude I hope as I honestly don't). They also have advertisements and are a for-profit company, I don’t think the Tolkien Estate will be very pleased. There’s also a few non-English Tolkien wikis, [http://ardapedia.herr-der-ringe-film.de/index.php/Hauptseite Ardapedia] and [http://kontu.merri.net/wiki/Etusivu Kontu Wiki], I actually convinced Merri to start the Finnish wiki and he has done a great job with it. We are also considering expanding into other languages as well but we will probably concentrate on English for the next few years before trying to expand.

Wikipedia is a great project but unfortunately they can only concentrate on the major Tolkien-related articles. While we focus on ''everything'', including essays, reviews, music, publications, collectibles, images, etc. [http://starwars.wikia.com Wookieepedia] is an example of where we are heading as they have well over 30,000 articles, by far too many for any environment not specializing on the subject.

You will notice that some articles have roots from Wikipedia, yes. When we started out we borrowed some content from them as is allowed with the GNU FDL. However we have greatly improved on those articles and have been rewriting them from the ground up constantly. You will find many of our editors on the site still contribute to the Tolkien articles on Wikipedia and we are by no means trying to mimic what they do.

It seems the above still doesn’t create a convincing answer so here are some raw projects that we are working on that we would not be able to accomplish on Wikipedia:
* We are listing '''all''' Amon Hen, Mallorn, Beyond Bree, Orcrist, LotR Fan Club, Tolkien Journal, Parma Nole, Lembas Extra, Arda, etc. journals and putting their contents and cover page on their own articles. The article will of course contain links to purchase the back issue as well as the official site of the publication.
* We also received the rights this week to store all of the [[Fraud of the Rings]] comics, this is something not even freely available on the official site.

* The [[Tolkien Google logo petition]] is something else Wikipedia would not condone.
* Screenplays for purists and The Hobbit are other projects we currently are working on.
* We also are trying to have an article for every single Tolkien-related game.
* Archiving any and all Tolkien imagery
* Listing any and all Tolkien-inspired music
* Listing all collectibles related to Tolkien and his works
* Listing all books related to the Professor and his works
[[Tolkien Gateway:Projects|etc.]]

This being said our main goal is focusing on the legendarium and the Tolkien-inspired items are only a secondary objective.

It is probably better to look at Tolkien Gateway as a community more so than simply a wiki. We also run [http://tolkiennews.net TolkienNews.net] and host sites such the [http://www.herenistarion.org North East Tolkien Society], [http://www.shirepost.com ShirePost.com], and a few more on the horizon. We also run the Tolkien IRC Network which averages 20-30 users in the main lobby and hosts sites such as [http://www.minastirith.com minastirith.com], [http://www.ancanar.com ancanar.com], [http://www.herenistarion.org herenistarion.org], [http://www.imladris.dk imladris.dk], [http://www.lotrosource.com lotrosource.com], [http://www.ardapost.com ardapost.com], etc.

Now that just looks like one big advertisement…sorry about that. If you need me to be more specific on something please let me know. We are always very open to new ideas and if you have any suggestions please let us know.

One thing I’ve been meaning to talk to you about is linking to your FAQ as well as the newsgroups. What we’ve been doing with Tolkien forums is when there is a specific topic being discussed, such as the whereabouts of the [[Entwives]], we link our article to their thread. I’d like to do this with both the Meta-FAQ and newsgroups so for example on our article on [[the Shire]] we could link to your FAQ on whether the Shire was meant to be England, etc.

Thanks for dropping by as it means a lot to us, and keep up the great work on your sites! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:05, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

:Good answer. :) It does sound like you'll be much freer to add information on "minor" topics here than you would be on a broad site like Wikipedia; I think you've convinced me that it's a good idea. I hope that some level of cross-fertilization goes on between the community here and the community there.

:As for my Meta-FAQ (and related work), you are of course welcome to link to any bits of it that you think would be useful. (That's something else that some folks might have a problem with on Wikipedia, come to think of it.) I've always wished that I had time to track down the best Usenet newsgroup threads to link to for each of my FAQ topics, but real life keeps me too busy these days to consider such a major project. It would have been much easier if, like you, I'd started keeping track of the threads at the same time that I started writing the FAQ! In any case, best wishes with the site, and many thanks for your detailed answer to my question. [http://tolkien.slimy.com/ Steuard] --[[User:128.135.152.14|128.135.152.14]] 16:23, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

:Great answer, Hyarion! I applaud your ringing defense and statement of purpose of this fine Wiki. You really covered a lot of ground here. I joined up a year to make some solid contributions to a developing LOTR wiki, and I have some humble contribs. Hopefully I'll be making more in the future. All power to the Gateway!--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 15:30, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

== Quotes ==

Some wikis (namely the Star Wars wiki) use quotes to describe articles. i.e. "''A demon of the ancheint world. This foe is beyond any of you.''" -[[Gandalf]] would describe the [[Balrogs|Balrog]]. Could we start doing this? -[[User:Lord Aragorn1414|Lord Aragorn1414]] 14:31, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

:Hello Lord Vad...Aragorn, we like to think of Wookieepedia as our sister wiki as we tend to borrow quite a few ideas from them. Quotes at the top of articles to describe the character/place/item/etc are one of these ideas. We haven't fully implemented all the articles but some such as [[Hobbits]] or [[The Silmarillion]] or [[Dragons]], etc. display this idea. This is something we definitely wish to expand on and if you have any quotes you would like to use feel free to do so. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 14:40, 17 July 2006 (EDT)
::Okay then, thank you! You like to play on my name alot don't you? That's okay, though. ;) -[[User:Lord Aragorn1414|Lord Aragorn1414]] 14:46, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

== Canon and other things ==

First off, I'm wondering what "canon" this encyclopedia will use. As of now, it's inconsistent: for example, there are two [[Glorfindel]]s, but has Orodreth, not Fingon, as Gil-galad's father.

Secondly, all the non-movie art is very nice, since I don't care much for the Jackson films having, in general, "supremacy" through images (quite irritating in Wikipedia, though the editors have lately arranged adaptation pictures in tables - gives equal treatment to ''all'', not just the Jackson ones). Ideally, all appropriate articles should have artworks before film images.

Finally, could someone make a ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Weapons and Warfare]]'' article, so we can cut it up (i.e. point out some total inventions) for the non-book readers? Info from that book has been inserted in Wikipedia articles; thankfully they were deleted. [[User:Rog|Rog]] 22:49, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

:Hello Rog, I've addressed the first issue at [[Forum:Canon scale]] so I'll reply to the other two. I'm glad you are a fan of the illustrations, as am I. We try and bring new images to the reader's eyes by putting the illustrations first but I think there are some circumstances where the film images are more accurate and will have to be put first. Accuracy vs. Beauty of the illustration is yet another difficult topic.

:Great idea on the Weapons and Warfare article, I'll try and have one up by tomorrow. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 23:15, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

==Top Editors==

Hyarion, I'd like to suggest that you change the Top Editors list again. Dwarf Lord at least should be added, being the fourth highest, and still picking up speed. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 09:01, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

:Thanks Narfil, [[Main Page]] has been updated. Maybe I'll work on having the page grab the top 5 dynamically. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:49, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

== A-Z List ==

I've moved the A-Z list up closer to the top as I have a feeling a lot of people were not noticing it there at the bottom, I'm still not 100% satisfied with its current position but I think it will at least get noticed more. If you guys think otherwise just let me know. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:41, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

:I think it's fine there. I admit I had hardly noticed it before. At least it's more visible. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 17:46, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

==Featured Quote on Main Page==
Hi, wouldn't it be good, if at least once a month a new quote would appear here? The current one is from the last year, i think. ;-) - {{unsigned|Eldarion Telcontar}}

:It definitely is about time we have both a new quote and a new featured article. The lack of new quotes stems from various long-lasting discussions on whether to use a random quote from a pool of Tolkien quotes, or to weekly/monthly/etc vote on a specific quote. We're also working on a website dedicated to quotes which we hoped to grab randomly from there but I'd rather not wait until that project is finished. I think a good time to start a new quote will be once we launch our new skin. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:35, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

:As we are starting a new '''featured''' era, it would be a good idea to change '''Past Featured Articles''' to '''Featured Articles'''. It's more accurate. --[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 21:03, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

:I agree, the Featured Article Project is coming along nicely, now its time to focus on quotes. What needs to be done exactly? Do we need need more quotes written down, or is there some fancy code that needs to be entered to generate the quotes? As Ive said many times before, not a big tech guy, but I'll be glad to help where I can.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 21:05, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

::There is this one [[Main Page/Quote]] page, that has a random quote generator, but unfortunately, all are unlinked. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 23:53, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

:::There is a [[Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations|Nominations]] page for quotes also. Maybe we could nominate them ourselves? The good/relevant/preferred ones? ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 03:05, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

:::[[User:Þelma|Þelma]], the Featured Quote era has begun. Click on the link on the main page and take a look at the current quote nominated.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 13:03, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

::::[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]], you make it sound like an world event. :) And far from me to contradict that ;) I will take a look. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 13:28, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::Shouldn't '''Past Featured quotes''' be changed into '''Featured quotes''' like it was done with the Featured Articles? The Past Featured Quotes are to find at [[Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/History|Featured quotes/History]] now. -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 16:40, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

::::::Thanks, fixed :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

==Featured Article on Main Page==
I'm just wondering why "[[Aragorn II]]" is still "Today's featured article". Maybe i'm mistaken but isn't "[[Witch-king of Angmar]]" already sucessfully elected and hasn't "[[Gandalf]]" already five "Agree"s? Wouldn't it be about time to change the Featured Article after so many months? -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 15:12, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
==Elvish Word of the Day==
What do you think? is it feasible? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:23, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:I favour just "word of the day"; also give minor languages some screentime. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:44, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
::Of course. Can it be done? How? And by whom? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

:::We probably need a stash of them, and select 30 at the beginning of each month. With subpages, it can be done. But I don't know where exactly on the main page this can fit...-- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 09:08, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

==News==
What happened to the news? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:17, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

:Hm, news on the [[Main Page]] seems to be working for me, is it not showing up over there? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 03:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

::It didn't show last night, but it does now. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:25, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

:::For my it doesn't appear to. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 12:15, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== .pdf ==

Hi, could somebody add .PDF as permitted files. Then I can upload my Tolkien Essays about [[Gothmog]], [[Blue Wizards]] and...uhm...The Troops of [[Gondor]].

:As far as I know, you can't upload PDF's. The file upload function of mediawiki was made for image files and movie clips. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:06, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

:: You can do it, see link:

[http://nl.tolkien-online.wikia.com/wiki/Bestand:Tolkien_Names-Namen.pdf Tolkien Names: English-Dutch]

sorry, forget my sign --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 16:17, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

::: I'll put it on my list to mail to Hyarion. He's the code guy. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:25, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

:::: Okay, I hope it works --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 15:32, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

==Updates==

I have noticed that Hyarion has added a new entry to [[Tolkien Gateway:Updates]] but that it doesn't appear on the Main Page because the updates are included as plain text there. Could somebody replace the plain text updates on the Main Page with the following line?

<nowiki>{{:Tolkien Gateway:Updates}}</nowiki>

Thus the latest updates from the Updates Page are included automatically and only [[Tolkien Gateway:Updates]] has to be updated in order to let the news appear on the Main Page and the Community Page as well.

-- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 10:57, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/25 July 2010

2010-07-17T10:44:08Z

Eldarion Telcontar: attend

User:Eldarion Telcontar

2010-07-10T13:44:46Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

{|align=right border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=5 bgcolor=#153669 style="color:white;"
!align=center |'''Eldarion Telcontar'''
|-
|<center>{{Edit Count
| User=Eldarion Telcontar
|}}</center>
|}

<poem style="font-style:italic; margin-left:20px;">
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
</poem>

'''I'm a 19 years old student from Germany. I like Tolkiens books very much and admire the world he created.'''

==My Username==
''Eldarion Telcontar was the only recorded son of Arwen and Aragorn and the King of Gondor and Arnor in the Fourth Age. Its forename means 'Scion of the Eldar' and 'Telcontar' is the Quenya name of 'Strider'.''

==Projects==
- including Google maps of Arda into Location articles
- adding long-term actions to the calendar like "Company rest in Lothlorien"

==My Books and Films by and about Tolkien and his works==

===Books by J.R.R. Tolkien===
* ''Der Hobbit'' (german edition of [[The Hobbit]] by Klett-Cotta)
* ''The Hobbit'' ([[HarperCollins]] edition illustrated by [[Alan Lee]])
* ''Der Herr der Ringe'' (german edition of [[The Lord of the Rings]] by Klett-Cotta)
* ''The Lord of the Rings'' (50th Anniversary edition by [[HarperCollins]])
* ''Das Silmarillion'' (german edition of [[The Silmarillion]] by Klett-Cotta)
* ''The Silmarillion'' (paperback edition by [[HarperCollins]])
* ''Unfinished Tales'' (paperback edition by [[HarperCollins]])

===Books about the works of J.R.R Tolkien===
* ''[[Tolkien's World: Paintings of Middle-earth]]'' ([[HarperCollins]])
* ''Historischer Atlas von Mittelerde'' (german edition of [[The Atlas of Middle-earth]] by [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]])
* ''[[The Return of the Shadow]]'' (by [[Christopher Tolkien]])

===Films===
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''

<includeonly>[[Category:Users who support Elves|{{PAGENAME}}]]</includeonly>
<includeonly>[[Category:User lore-3|{{PAGENAME}}]]</includeonly>

Tolkien Gateway:Community Portal

2010-07-10T13:40:39Z

Eldarion Telcontar: a few updates

{|style="width:100%;margin-top:+1em;margin-bottom:+.7em;background-color:#ffffff;border:1px solid #ccc;-moz-border-radius:10px"
|-
|style="white-space:nowrap;color:#000;width:100%" |
<div style="text-align: center;font-size:195%;border:none;margin-top:+.4em;padding:.1em;color:#000">[[Tolkien Gateway]]</div>
<div style="top:+0.7em;margin-bottom:+.7em;font-size:105%;text-align:center;">'''Community Portal'''</div>
|}

{|style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
|class="MainPageBG" style="width:55%;border:1px solid #cef2e0;background-color:#f5fffa;vertical-align:top;color:#000"|
{|width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5fffa"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background:#cef2e0;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3bfb1;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Current Events</h2>
|-
|style="color:#000"|
*The Tolkien Gateway's [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/27 June 2010|twelfth meeting]] took place on Sunday the 27th of June 2010. The next meeting will take place in a few weeks time.
*[[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] has been awarded adminship status for all of his hard work on the wiki. Well Done Ederchil!
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background:#cef2e0;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3bfb1;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Updates</h2>
|-
|style="color:#000"|
{{:Tolkien Gateway:Updates}}
:''[[Tolkien Gateway:Updates|more updates]]''
|-

! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cef2e0;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3bfb1;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Useful Links</h2>
|-
|style="color:#000"|
*[[Special:RecentChanges|Recent changes]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Featured articles|Featured articles]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes|Featured quotes]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Projects|Projects]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:To-do|To-do]]
*[[:Category:Templates]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Collaborations|Collaborations]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Requested articles|Requested articles]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Requests for adminship|Requests for adminship]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Administrators|Administrators]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Featured Gatekeepers|Featured Gatekeepers]]

:'' see also [[:Category:Tolkien Gateway|Tolkien Gateway]]''
|}
|class="MainPageBG" style="width:45%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">[[:Category:Tolkien Gateway|Policy]]</h2>
|-
|style="color:#000"|
Here follows a list of policies which you should adhere to whilst editing:
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Policy|General Site Policy]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Standards|Standards]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Duplicate articles|Duplicate articles]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Deletion policy|Deletion Policy]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Spoilers|Spoiler Policy]]
*[[Canon]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3bfb1;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Community</h2>
|-
|style="color:#000"|
It is important that the community of editors on this site contact each other. The Tolkien Gateway offers various ways to do this, these are listed below:
*Article Talk Pages
*User Talk Pages
*[[Forum:Council|Forums]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|IRC Chat]]
*[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings|Meetings]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Help</h2>
|-
|class="plainlinks" style="color:#000"|
:''Main Help Page: [[Help:Contents|Contents]]''
If you are new here and don't really know how you can contribute to this site, then please see our help articles located [[Help:Contents|here]]. It is recommended that you [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/w/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&type=signup create an account] although this is not required to edit pages. If you would like to test out our site, then please do so in our [[Tolkien Gateway:Sandbox|sandbox]]
|-
|}
|}

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]

Tolkien Gateway:Updates

2010-07-10T13:37:38Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

<noinclude>
'''Tolkien Gateway:Updates''' features updates and news specific to Tolkien Gateway.

==Site Updates==
[[Image:Morgen Bell - The Palantir.jpg|thumb|250px|''The Palantir'' by [[Morgen Bell]]]]
</noinclude>
* '''7-5-10''' - Migrating to our new server could not have gone smoother. Uploads and editing have been enabled again. Hopefully you won't see errors as frequently as before and pages will load a little bit faster.
* '''7-3-10''' - Uploads have been temporarily disabled while we setup a beta site on our shiny new server in preparation for the migration.
* '''4-22-10''' - I would like to apologize profusely for the extended downtime TG experienced earlier today. Apparently we overloaded our host with too much traffic! We are working diligently to prevent this from happening again. Thank you for your patience.<noinclude>
* '''9-2-09''' - Well, that could have gone much smoother, but then again I guess it could have been worse. We're now on our new server. I'm working out a few minor tweaks and then we can focus on upgrading MediaWiki and finally adding some extensions. If you encounter any problems please let me know.
* '''12-30-08''' - The MySQL service was feeling lonely and wanted some attention so it decided to crash on us :( Thanks for hanging in there!
* '''10-9-08''' - One of our database tables crashed on us earlier today however the issue has been resolved. Sorry for any inconvenience.
* '''9-15-08''' - Unfortunately we had some major hardware problems earlier today however they have been resolved and no information was lost.
* '''8-26-08''' - The Ithilien skin is now the default for FireFox, Opera, and IE 7.0 browsers. You can change your skin at [[Special:Preferences]].
* '''8-21-08''' - The upgrade is complete and we are now working on fixing some bugs as well as installing some new features, if you notice anything odd feel free to report it on [[User_talk:Hyarion|Hyarion's talk page]].
* '''8-21-08''' - We will be upgrading the software which powers the wiki shortly, this will allow us to incorporate many new features into the website. There will be some downtime, anywhere from 10-30 minutes, and there may be some bugs after the upgrade is complete, hang tight. Feel free to join [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|the chatroom]] in the mean time.
* '''8-20-08''' - Unfortunately MySQL had some issues earlier today however the issue has been resolved.
* '''8-17-08''' - A reminder, our first of our weekly meetings will take place today on IRC at 3pm Eastern. For more information see [[Tolkien_Gateway:Meetings]].
* '''7-12-08''' - Tolkien Gateway passed the threshold of 7000 articles!
* '''7-1-08''' - Unfortunately we were having some power problems with the server at the data center early this morning, sorry about that folks.
* '''4-30-08''' - We have publicly launched our latest project, a map of Earth with markers for any location which relates to J.R.R. Tolkien and his works. We'll be continuing to add more points and features to the map. Stay Tuned! [http://tolkiengateway.net/map/ View the map]
* '''4-14-08''' - We've been having some technical issues with our server over the last couple days, thanks for hanging in there, we think we've resolved it.
* '''2-2-08''' - Wow. Whatever could go wrong, did go wrong. We are extremely sorry about the downtime the last few days, shame on us for thinking everything would go smoothly. Thanks for hanging in there, now let's move onto the good news. No data was lost and we are now running on a brand new server with PHP5 and we'll begin upgrading the MediaWiki software and adding some fun new extensions in the coming weeks.
* '''1-29-08''' - Due to the rapid growth of Tolkien Gateway we will be migrating to a new quad-core server with 8 gigs of RAM. For data synchronization reasons, we will be locking the database tomorrow during the migration process which means editing may be disabled. We should be at our new home and fully operational by Wednesday.
* '''10-4-07''' - Interwiki links now added for Ardapedia (German) and Kontu (Finnish).
* '''10-1-07''' - Unfortunately we had some MySQL issues today and yesterday, but they have been resolved, sorry for the inconvenience.
* '''9-18-07''' - All anonymous users must now answer a simple math problem before their edit is saved.
* '''4-14-07''' - New main page launched!
* '''3-11-07''' - Who is Online feature is now much more accurate as it grabs visits from all the pages and not just the [[Main Page]], it also displays the registered users that are online.
* '''2-24-07''' - Max width for the layout has been removed. Users with larger monitors should now see a lot less whitespace on the sides.
* '''1-15-07''' - Support for OpenSearch has been added and Firefox users can now add Tolkien Gateway search to their browser by clicking the down arrow next to the Google search box and clicking "Add Tolkien Gateway".
* '''12-1-06''' - Just in case you guys prefer Google Video to YouTube I've added a Google Video extension as well. Again, it's pretty simple, just insert something like <nowiki><googlevideo>8119893978710705002</googlevideo></nowiki> where that long number is the ID found in the Google Video URL.
* '''11-29-06''' - I've gone ahead and added a YouTube extension until I can perfect our own video embedding scheme. To embed a video from YouTube just use the follow code <nowiki><youtube width="200" height="200">pISzxdEgDCU</youtube></nowiki> Where the jumble of letters is the video code on YouTube (found in the URL). We definitely don't want to abuse this and have tons of videos jammed on every page but I think it will help on some articles.
* '''10-21-06''' - Dang, just noticed we passed 1 million page views a while ago, congratulations!
* '''10-20-06''' - Had a bit of downtime this morning and quite a bit this evening but we think we've resolved the issue, sorry about that folks.
* '''10-17-06''' - Looks like the site had a small hiccup while I was sleeping and a few database tables were corrupted. The problem has been resolved and luckily the specific tables didn't hold all the content for the site. I'm going to switch from weekly to daily backups just in case it happens again.
* '''10-16-06''' - We've had the cavendish skin installed for a while now and I think it is overall better than the old Monobook skin so I've gone ahead and made it the default. You can of course always change your skin by clicking the Preferences link when you're logged in. This new skin will still undergo some changes as we definitely need to add more of a Tolkien-theme to it.
* '''9-27-06''' - We will be migrating to a new server on Sunday, no downtime is expected and the server will feature PHP5 which will allow us to get back to upgrading to the latest versions of MediaWiki, something we have been unable to do for the last few months due to only having PHP4. I'm hoping with the new server will also come TeTex/LaTeX/WikiTeX/TengTex which will allow us to dynamically generate the Tengwar like I promised.
* '''9-27-06''' - Moving the Community Portal to Tolkien Gateway:Updates as this seems a more proper place. The community portal definitely has its place but for now I think I'll just remove it.
* The Poem extension has now been added. To utilize the new extension simply encase your poem between <nowiki><poem> and </poem></nowiki>. No more line breaks required after every line or using the pre tag.
* I'm proud to announce '''Tolkien Gateway''' has just passed 3,000 unique visitors in one day. We have all of the dedicated contributors to thank and at this point I think it's just a matter of time before people realize the potential of the site.
* Small skin changes. I've been playing around with the skin a lot of today so I'm sorry if anyone saw anything odd. I've added the A-Z links to the top center and removed them from the left where they were taking up way too much room. When we finalize some "Portal" pages such as the Gallery and maybe a Characters portal or something I'll throw those links on the left. Let me know what you guys think.
* thrasher7 has provided us with a new extension, the [[Special:Editcount/TopEditors]] extension which lists the top editors. Hopefully this will give us an extra incentive to keep editing. You can include your total edits in your user page by using <nowiki>{{Special:Editcount/Hyarion}}</nowiki> for example. Let the race to #1 begin!
* Kristine Kastle has written a [http://people.emich.edu/zgarrett/ColProject/3.html critique of Tolkien Gateway] for her class. We received 1.5 out of 4 rings.
* The left navigational A-Z links have been fixed. Prior to the update they used Special:Allpages/A which would show a couple hundred pages starting with A but it might continue on through B and C. Now when you click A you will only see articlces starting with A.
* The upgrade to 1.6.3 is now complete! [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Important_Release_Notes#MediaWiki_1.6.x New Features]. Please let me know if you see any bugs that I might have missed.
* We have planned to upgrade from MediaWiki 1.5.4 to 1.6.3 today. This includes an added feature which forces people who edit anonymously and have a link in their edit, to type a random word. This should prevent pretty much all the vandalisms. If you find anything wrong after the upgrade, please let us know.
* If you haven't noticed we have converted our [[Tolkien_Gateway_talk:Community_Portal|Community Portal discussion]] to a forum-like atmosphere over on the [[Forum:Council|Council forums]] (a link is also present on the left navigation).
* It seems we have surpassed over 200,000 page views as well as over 200 registered users. Congratulations everyone.
* Over 500 articles and a day later I've now completed the redirect pages. Searching or even making a [[Numenor]] link will redirect to the correct accented article.
* I'm still debating switching the main page to be simply a [http://tolkiengateway.net/search/ Search Page]. I like the idea of having a simplistic Google-like look, but I think the lack of news/information on the main page might not be liked. What do you guys think?
* I think I've decided to go through ''every'' article that has an accent and create a non-accented redirect to it. Search results do not display the correct results for something like "Numenor" since there are technically accents on the word. Creating the redirects will allow someone to search for "Numenor" and simply be redirected to the correct page. I've whined to the MediaWiki staff about creating an extension but it's just going to be too much work to do it like Google and even Wikipedia uses the redirect idea.
* Congratulations everyone, we have now surpassed 10,000 edits!
* I've altered the left navigation menu to display only alphabetical links. The old links were not fully completed even though the articles were written. I think this way people will be able to see how large our database is more efficiently. What do you guys think? Feel free to post on the discussion page.
* Unfortunately the last couple days we've had some MySQL issues which has caused some downtime. This is not viewed lightly and we've done everyting possible to prevent anymore downtime in the future. Sorry for the inconvenience.
* Congratulations to everyone who has worked on the Encyclopedia, we have now surpassed over 100,000 views.
* We have founded our own [http://tolkiennews.net Tolkien News] website.
* A [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=dusk new skin] has been added. To switch to that skin permanently just go into your preferences once you are logged in.
* I've added [[Tolkien_Gateway:Council|a page for editors to discuss Tolkien Gateway]].
* Tolkien Gateway is now offering free website hosting and IRC chat services to selected Tolkien websites, please email hyarion [at] hyarion [dot] net for more details.
* After a bit of downtime we now have successfully relocated to the new server.
* You can now [[Special:Newimages|View recently uploaded images]]. If you have an account, feel free to [[Special:Upload|Upload your own images]].

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]
</noinclude>

Tolkien Gateway:Updates

2010-07-10T13:37:12Z

Eldarion Telcontar: last three updates can be included in any page by using "{{:Tolkien Gateway:Updates}}" now

<noinclude>
'''Tolkien Gateway:Updates''' features updates and news specific to Tolkien Gateway.

==Site Updates==
[[Image:Morgen Bell - The Palantir.jpg|thumb|250px|''The Palantir'' by [[Morgen Bell]]]]
</noinclude>
* '''7-5-10''' - Migrating to our new server could not have gone smoother. Uploads and editing have been enabled again. Hopefully you won't see errors as frequently as before and pages will load a little bit faster.
* '''7-3-10''' - Uploads have been temporarily disabled while we setup a beta site on our shiny new server in preparation for the migration.
* '''4-22-10''' - I would like to apologize profusely for the extended downtime TG experienced earlier today. Apparently we overloaded our host with too much traffic! We are working diligently to prevent this from happening again. Thank you for your patience.
<noinclude>
* '''9-2-09''' - Well, that could have gone much smoother, but then again I guess it could have been worse. We're now on our new server. I'm working out a few minor tweaks and then we can focus on upgrading MediaWiki and finally adding some extensions. If you encounter any problems please let me know.
* '''12-30-08''' - The MySQL service was feeling lonely and wanted some attention so it decided to crash on us :( Thanks for hanging in there!
* '''10-9-08''' - One of our database tables crashed on us earlier today however the issue has been resolved. Sorry for any inconvenience.
* '''9-15-08''' - Unfortunately we had some major hardware problems earlier today however they have been resolved and no information was lost.
* '''8-26-08''' - The Ithilien skin is now the default for FireFox, Opera, and IE 7.0 browsers. You can change your skin at [[Special:Preferences]].
* '''8-21-08''' - The upgrade is complete and we are now working on fixing some bugs as well as installing some new features, if you notice anything odd feel free to report it on [[User_talk:Hyarion|Hyarion's talk page]].
* '''8-21-08''' - We will be upgrading the software which powers the wiki shortly, this will allow us to incorporate many new features into the website. There will be some downtime, anywhere from 10-30 minutes, and there may be some bugs after the upgrade is complete, hang tight. Feel free to join [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|the chatroom]] in the mean time.
* '''8-20-08''' - Unfortunately MySQL had some issues earlier today however the issue has been resolved.
* '''8-17-08''' - A reminder, our first of our weekly meetings will take place today on IRC at 3pm Eastern. For more information see [[Tolkien_Gateway:Meetings]].
* '''7-12-08''' - Tolkien Gateway passed the threshold of 7000 articles!
* '''7-1-08''' - Unfortunately we were having some power problems with the server at the data center early this morning, sorry about that folks.
* '''4-30-08''' - We have publicly launched our latest project, a map of Earth with markers for any location which relates to J.R.R. Tolkien and his works. We'll be continuing to add more points and features to the map. Stay Tuned! [http://tolkiengateway.net/map/ View the map]
* '''4-14-08''' - We've been having some technical issues with our server over the last couple days, thanks for hanging in there, we think we've resolved it.
* '''2-2-08''' - Wow. Whatever could go wrong, did go wrong. We are extremely sorry about the downtime the last few days, shame on us for thinking everything would go smoothly. Thanks for hanging in there, now let's move onto the good news. No data was lost and we are now running on a brand new server with PHP5 and we'll begin upgrading the MediaWiki software and adding some fun new extensions in the coming weeks.
* '''1-29-08''' - Due to the rapid growth of Tolkien Gateway we will be migrating to a new quad-core server with 8 gigs of RAM. For data synchronization reasons, we will be locking the database tomorrow during the migration process which means editing may be disabled. We should be at our new home and fully operational by Wednesday.
* '''10-4-07''' - Interwiki links now added for Ardapedia (German) and Kontu (Finnish).
* '''10-1-07''' - Unfortunately we had some MySQL issues today and yesterday, but they have been resolved, sorry for the inconvenience.
* '''9-18-07''' - All anonymous users must now answer a simple math problem before their edit is saved.
* '''4-14-07''' - New main page launched!
* '''3-11-07''' - Who is Online feature is now much more accurate as it grabs visits from all the pages and not just the [[Main Page]], it also displays the registered users that are online.
* '''2-24-07''' - Max width for the layout has been removed. Users with larger monitors should now see a lot less whitespace on the sides.
* '''1-15-07''' - Support for OpenSearch has been added and Firefox users can now add Tolkien Gateway search to their browser by clicking the down arrow next to the Google search box and clicking "Add Tolkien Gateway".
* '''12-1-06''' - Just in case you guys prefer Google Video to YouTube I've added a Google Video extension as well. Again, it's pretty simple, just insert something like <nowiki><googlevideo>8119893978710705002</googlevideo></nowiki> where that long number is the ID found in the Google Video URL.
* '''11-29-06''' - I've gone ahead and added a YouTube extension until I can perfect our own video embedding scheme. To embed a video from YouTube just use the follow code <nowiki><youtube width="200" height="200">pISzxdEgDCU</youtube></nowiki> Where the jumble of letters is the video code on YouTube (found in the URL). We definitely don't want to abuse this and have tons of videos jammed on every page but I think it will help on some articles.
* '''10-21-06''' - Dang, just noticed we passed 1 million page views a while ago, congratulations!
* '''10-20-06''' - Had a bit of downtime this morning and quite a bit this evening but we think we've resolved the issue, sorry about that folks.
* '''10-17-06''' - Looks like the site had a small hiccup while I was sleeping and a few database tables were corrupted. The problem has been resolved and luckily the specific tables didn't hold all the content for the site. I'm going to switch from weekly to daily backups just in case it happens again.
* '''10-16-06''' - We've had the cavendish skin installed for a while now and I think it is overall better than the old Monobook skin so I've gone ahead and made it the default. You can of course always change your skin by clicking the Preferences link when you're logged in. This new skin will still undergo some changes as we definitely need to add more of a Tolkien-theme to it.
* '''9-27-06''' - We will be migrating to a new server on Sunday, no downtime is expected and the server will feature PHP5 which will allow us to get back to upgrading to the latest versions of MediaWiki, something we have been unable to do for the last few months due to only having PHP4. I'm hoping with the new server will also come TeTex/LaTeX/WikiTeX/TengTex which will allow us to dynamically generate the Tengwar like I promised.
* '''9-27-06''' - Moving the Community Portal to Tolkien Gateway:Updates as this seems a more proper place. The community portal definitely has its place but for now I think I'll just remove it.
* The Poem extension has now been added. To utilize the new extension simply encase your poem between <nowiki><poem> and </poem></nowiki>. No more line breaks required after every line or using the pre tag.
* I'm proud to announce '''Tolkien Gateway''' has just passed 3,000 unique visitors in one day. We have all of the dedicated contributors to thank and at this point I think it's just a matter of time before people realize the potential of the site.
* Small skin changes. I've been playing around with the skin a lot of today so I'm sorry if anyone saw anything odd. I've added the A-Z links to the top center and removed them from the left where they were taking up way too much room. When we finalize some "Portal" pages such as the Gallery and maybe a Characters portal or something I'll throw those links on the left. Let me know what you guys think.
* thrasher7 has provided us with a new extension, the [[Special:Editcount/TopEditors]] extension which lists the top editors. Hopefully this will give us an extra incentive to keep editing. You can include your total edits in your user page by using <nowiki>{{Special:Editcount/Hyarion}}</nowiki> for example. Let the race to #1 begin!
* Kristine Kastle has written a [http://people.emich.edu/zgarrett/ColProject/3.html critique of Tolkien Gateway] for her class. We received 1.5 out of 4 rings.
* The left navigational A-Z links have been fixed. Prior to the update they used Special:Allpages/A which would show a couple hundred pages starting with A but it might continue on through B and C. Now when you click A you will only see articlces starting with A.
* The upgrade to 1.6.3 is now complete! [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Important_Release_Notes#MediaWiki_1.6.x New Features]. Please let me know if you see any bugs that I might have missed.
* We have planned to upgrade from MediaWiki 1.5.4 to 1.6.3 today. This includes an added feature which forces people who edit anonymously and have a link in their edit, to type a random word. This should prevent pretty much all the vandalisms. If you find anything wrong after the upgrade, please let us know.
* If you haven't noticed we have converted our [[Tolkien_Gateway_talk:Community_Portal|Community Portal discussion]] to a forum-like atmosphere over on the [[Forum:Council|Council forums]] (a link is also present on the left navigation).
* It seems we have surpassed over 200,000 page views as well as over 200 registered users. Congratulations everyone.
* Over 500 articles and a day later I've now completed the redirect pages. Searching or even making a [[Numenor]] link will redirect to the correct accented article.
* I'm still debating switching the main page to be simply a [http://tolkiengateway.net/search/ Search Page]. I like the idea of having a simplistic Google-like look, but I think the lack of news/information on the main page might not be liked. What do you guys think?
* I think I've decided to go through ''every'' article that has an accent and create a non-accented redirect to it. Search results do not display the correct results for something like "Numenor" since there are technically accents on the word. Creating the redirects will allow someone to search for "Numenor" and simply be redirected to the correct page. I've whined to the MediaWiki staff about creating an extension but it's just going to be too much work to do it like Google and even Wikipedia uses the redirect idea.
* Congratulations everyone, we have now surpassed 10,000 edits!
* I've altered the left navigation menu to display only alphabetical links. The old links were not fully completed even though the articles were written. I think this way people will be able to see how large our database is more efficiently. What do you guys think? Feel free to post on the discussion page.
* Unfortunately the last couple days we've had some MySQL issues which has caused some downtime. This is not viewed lightly and we've done everyting possible to prevent anymore downtime in the future. Sorry for the inconvenience.
* Congratulations to everyone who has worked on the Encyclopedia, we have now surpassed over 100,000 views.
* We have founded our own [http://tolkiennews.net Tolkien News] website.
* A [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=dusk new skin] has been added. To switch to that skin permanently just go into your preferences once you are logged in.
* I've added [[Tolkien_Gateway:Council|a page for editors to discuss Tolkien Gateway]].
* Tolkien Gateway is now offering free website hosting and IRC chat services to selected Tolkien websites, please email hyarion [at] hyarion [dot] net for more details.
* After a bit of downtime we now have successfully relocated to the new server.
* You can now [[Special:Newimages|View recently uploaded images]]. If you have an account, feel free to [[Special:Upload|Upload your own images]].

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]
</noinclude>

Tolkien Gateway:Updates

2010-07-10T13:24:07Z

Eldarion Telcontar: updates from Main Page

'''Tolkien Gateway:Updates''' features updates and news specific to Tolkien Gateway.

==Site Updates==
[[Image:Morgen Bell - The Palantir.jpg|thumb|250px|''The Palantir'' by [[Morgen Bell]]]]

* '''7-5-10''' - Migrating to our new server could not have gone smoother. Uploads and editing have been enabled again. Hopefully you won't see errors as frequently as before and pages will load a little bit faster.
* '''7-3-10''' - Uploads have been temporarily disabled while we setup a beta site on our shiny new server in preparation for the migration.
* '''4-22-10''' - I would like to apologize profusely for the extended downtime TG experienced earlier today. Apparently we overloaded our host with too much traffic! We are working diligently to prevent this from happening again. Thank you for your patience.
* '''9-2-09''' - Well, that could have gone much smoother, but then again I guess it could have been worse. We're now on our new server. I'm working out a few minor tweaks and then we can focus on upgrading MediaWiki and finally adding some extensions. If you encounter any problems please let me know.
* '''12-30-08''' - The MySQL service was feeling lonely and wanted some attention so it decided to crash on us :( Thanks for hanging in there!
* '''10-9-08''' - One of our database tables crashed on us earlier today however the issue has been resolved. Sorry for any inconvenience.
* '''9-15-08''' - Unfortunately we had some major hardware problems earlier today however they have been resolved and no information was lost.
* '''8-26-08''' - The Ithilien skin is now the default for FireFox, Opera, and IE 7.0 browsers. You can change your skin at [[Special:Preferences]].
* '''8-21-08''' - The upgrade is complete and we are now working on fixing some bugs as well as installing some new features, if you notice anything odd feel free to report it on [[User_talk:Hyarion|Hyarion's talk page]].
* '''8-21-08''' - We will be upgrading the software which powers the wiki shortly, this will allow us to incorporate many new features into the website. There will be some downtime, anywhere from 10-30 minutes, and there may be some bugs after the upgrade is complete, hang tight. Feel free to join [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|the chatroom]] in the mean time.
* '''8-20-08''' - Unfortunately MySQL had some issues earlier today however the issue has been resolved.
* '''8-17-08''' - A reminder, our first of our weekly meetings will take place today on IRC at 3pm Eastern. For more information see [[Tolkien_Gateway:Meetings]].
* '''7-12-08''' - Tolkien Gateway passed the threshold of 7000 articles!
* '''7-1-08''' - Unfortunately we were having some power problems with the server at the data center early this morning, sorry about that folks.
* '''4-30-08''' - We have publicly launched our latest project, a map of Earth with markers for any location which relates to J.R.R. Tolkien and his works. We'll be continuing to add more points and features to the map. Stay Tuned! [http://tolkiengateway.net/map/ View the map]
* '''4-14-08''' - We've been having some technical issues with our server over the last couple days, thanks for hanging in there, we think we've resolved it.
* '''2-2-08''' - Wow. Whatever could go wrong, did go wrong. We are extremely sorry about the downtime the last few days, shame on us for thinking everything would go smoothly. Thanks for hanging in there, now let's move onto the good news. No data was lost and we are now running on a brand new server with PHP5 and we'll begin upgrading the MediaWiki software and adding some fun new extensions in the coming weeks.
* '''1-29-08''' - Due to the rapid growth of Tolkien Gateway we will be migrating to a new quad-core server with 8 gigs of RAM. For data synchronization reasons, we will be locking the database tomorrow during the migration process which means editing may be disabled. We should be at our new home and fully operational by Wednesday.
* '''10-4-07''' - Interwiki links now added for Ardapedia (German) and Kontu (Finnish).
* '''10-1-07''' - Unfortunately we had some MySQL issues today and yesterday, but they have been resolved, sorry for the inconvenience.
* '''9-18-07''' - All anonymous users must now answer a simple math problem before their edit is saved.
* '''4-14-07''' - New main page launched!
* '''3-11-07''' - Who is Online feature is now much more accurate as it grabs visits from all the pages and not just the [[Main Page]], it also displays the registered users that are online.
* '''2-24-07''' - Max width for the layout has been removed. Users with larger monitors should now see a lot less whitespace on the sides.
* '''1-15-07''' - Support for OpenSearch has been added and Firefox users can now add Tolkien Gateway search to their browser by clicking the down arrow next to the Google search box and clicking "Add Tolkien Gateway".
* '''12-1-06''' - Just in case you guys prefer Google Video to YouTube I've added a Google Video extension as well. Again, it's pretty simple, just insert something like <nowiki><googlevideo>8119893978710705002</googlevideo></nowiki> where that long number is the ID found in the Google Video URL.
* '''11-29-06''' - I've gone ahead and added a YouTube extension until I can perfect our own video embedding scheme. To embed a video from YouTube just use the follow code <nowiki><youtube width="200" height="200">pISzxdEgDCU</youtube></nowiki> Where the jumble of letters is the video code on YouTube (found in the URL). We definitely don't want to abuse this and have tons of videos jammed on every page but I think it will help on some articles.
* '''10-21-06''' - Dang, just noticed we passed 1 million page views a while ago, congratulations!
* '''10-20-06''' - Had a bit of downtime this morning and quite a bit this evening but we think we've resolved the issue, sorry about that folks.
* '''10-17-06''' - Looks like the site had a small hiccup while I was sleeping and a few database tables were corrupted. The problem has been resolved and luckily the specific tables didn't hold all the content for the site. I'm going to switch from weekly to daily backups just in case it happens again.
* '''10-16-06''' - We've had the cavendish skin installed for a while now and I think it is overall better than the old Monobook skin so I've gone ahead and made it the default. You can of course always change your skin by clicking the Preferences link when you're logged in. This new skin will still undergo some changes as we definitely need to add more of a Tolkien-theme to it.
* '''9-27-06''' - We will be migrating to a new server on Sunday, no downtime is expected and the server will feature PHP5 which will allow us to get back to upgrading to the latest versions of MediaWiki, something we have been unable to do for the last few months due to only having PHP4. I'm hoping with the new server will also come TeTex/LaTeX/WikiTeX/TengTex which will allow us to dynamically generate the Tengwar like I promised.
* '''9-27-06''' - Moving the Community Portal to Tolkien Gateway:Updates as this seems a more proper place. The community portal definitely has its place but for now I think I'll just remove it.
* The Poem extension has now been added. To utilize the new extension simply encase your poem between <nowiki><poem> and </poem></nowiki>. No more line breaks required after every line or using the pre tag.
* I'm proud to announce '''Tolkien Gateway''' has just passed 3,000 unique visitors in one day. We have all of the dedicated contributors to thank and at this point I think it's just a matter of time before people realize the potential of the site.
* Small skin changes. I've been playing around with the skin a lot of today so I'm sorry if anyone saw anything odd. I've added the A-Z links to the top center and removed them from the left where they were taking up way too much room. When we finalize some "Portal" pages such as the Gallery and maybe a Characters portal or something I'll throw those links on the left. Let me know what you guys think.
* thrasher7 has provided us with a new extension, the [[Special:Editcount/TopEditors]] extension which lists the top editors. Hopefully this will give us an extra incentive to keep editing. You can include your total edits in your user page by using <nowiki>{{Special:Editcount/Hyarion}}</nowiki> for example. Let the race to #1 begin!
* Kristine Kastle has written a [http://people.emich.edu/zgarrett/ColProject/3.html critique of Tolkien Gateway] for her class. We received 1.5 out of 4 rings.
* The left navigational A-Z links have been fixed. Prior to the update they used Special:Allpages/A which would show a couple hundred pages starting with A but it might continue on through B and C. Now when you click A you will only see articlces starting with A.
* The upgrade to 1.6.3 is now complete! [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Important_Release_Notes#MediaWiki_1.6.x New Features]. Please let me know if you see any bugs that I might have missed.
* We have planned to upgrade from MediaWiki 1.5.4 to 1.6.3 today. This includes an added feature which forces people who edit anonymously and have a link in their edit, to type a random word. This should prevent pretty much all the vandalisms. If you find anything wrong after the upgrade, please let us know.
* If you haven't noticed we have converted our [[Tolkien_Gateway_talk:Community_Portal|Community Portal discussion]] to a forum-like atmosphere over on the [[Forum:Council|Council forums]] (a link is also present on the left navigation).
* It seems we have surpassed over 200,000 page views as well as over 200 registered users. Congratulations everyone.
* Over 500 articles and a day later I've now completed the redirect pages. Searching or even making a [[Numenor]] link will redirect to the correct accented article.
* I'm still debating switching the main page to be simply a [http://tolkiengateway.net/search/ Search Page]. I like the idea of having a simplistic Google-like look, but I think the lack of news/information on the main page might not be liked. What do you guys think?
* I think I've decided to go through ''every'' article that has an accent and create a non-accented redirect to it. Search results do not display the correct results for something like "Numenor" since there are technically accents on the word. Creating the redirects will allow someone to search for "Numenor" and simply be redirected to the correct page. I've whined to the MediaWiki staff about creating an extension but it's just going to be too much work to do it like Google and even Wikipedia uses the redirect idea.
* Congratulations everyone, we have now surpassed 10,000 edits!
* I've altered the left navigation menu to display only alphabetical links. The old links were not fully completed even though the articles were written. I think this way people will be able to see how large our database is more efficiently. What do you guys think? Feel free to post on the discussion page.
* Unfortunately the last couple days we've had some MySQL issues which has caused some downtime. This is not viewed lightly and we've done everyting possible to prevent anymore downtime in the future. Sorry for the inconvenience.
* Congratulations to everyone who has worked on the Encyclopedia, we have now surpassed over 100,000 views.
* We have founded our own [http://tolkiennews.net Tolkien News] website.
* A [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=dusk new skin] has been added. To switch to that skin permanently just go into your preferences once you are logged in.
* I've added [[Tolkien_Gateway:Council|a page for editors to discuss Tolkien Gateway]].
* Tolkien Gateway is now offering free website hosting and IRC chat services to selected Tolkien websites, please email hyarion [at] hyarion [dot] net for more details.
* After a bit of downtime we now have successfully relocated to the new server.
* You can now [[Special:Newimages|View recently uploaded images]]. If you have an account, feel free to [[Special:Upload|Upload your own images]].

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]

User talk:KingAragorn/2012

2010-07-10T13:12:25Z

Eldarion Telcontar: rep

'''{{PAGENAME}}, welcome!'''

Hello and [[Tolkien Gateway:Welcome|welcome]] to '''[[Tolkien Gateway:About|Tolkien Gateway]]'''. I hope you like the place and choose to join our work. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
*Internal pages:
**[[Tolkien Gateway:To-do|To-do list]]
**[[Forum:Council|Council forums]]
**[[Special:Recentchanges|Recent changes]]
*External Wikipedia pages:
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:How to edit a page|How to edit a page]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Tutorial|Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Picture tutorial|Picture tutorial]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:How to write a great article|How to write a great article]]

I hope you enjoy editing here and we look forward to your future edits. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~<nowiki>~~</nowiki>. Four tildes (~~<nowiki>~~</nowiki>) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the [[Tolkien Gateway:Help|help pages]], add a question to the [[Forum:Council|Council forums]] or ask me on [[User talk:Hyarion|my talk page]]. Keep up the great work! — [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]

==lotr.wikia.com==
Hey there KingAragorn, nice to see you around. You've been doing a great job over at lotr.wikia.com, nice to see someone with the same interest. Sometimes I wish we could merge projects so both communities aren't trying to accomplish the same thing, when we could be working together to accomplish it twice as fast, oh well. Keep up the great work! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:13, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

:Hi [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]! Thanks for the welcome, I think that it is possible for this wiki to be merged with lotr.wikia.com if ever you couldn't continue paying for the server or whatever. But I doubt users will agree on a merge in any other case.--[[User:KingAragorn|KingAragorn]] 05:55, 30 August 2007 (EDT)

::Hello KingAragorn, paying for the server isn't important, I would be happy to migrate all the content if the community deemed lotr.wikia.com a more developed and better wiki to be working on. Keep up the great work! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 11:27, 30 August 2007 (EDT)

==Books v Movies==
They're pretty big articles, I'm just having some trouble with the naming. Maybe it's better to call them Books v Movies: Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings (etc); this is the standard naming of adaptations here and allows a disambiguation with [[Rankin/Bass' The Return of the King]] and [[Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings]], should we ever write those. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:17, 3 July 2008 (EDT)
: The names were an issue on the One Wiki, someone said it was wrong to put Jackson '''Verses''' Tolkien. But yes, ''Books v Movies: Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings'' sounds good!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 06:15, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Your Wish Come True ==

Well I gave Ederchil the nomination he deserved for adminship, so go on over and vote for him.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 22:09, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

==Help:Signatures==
I had thought on a lot of Help articles to write (Images, Templates, Referencing currently exist only in my head, Disambiguation in my [[User:Ederchil/Sandbox|Sandbox]]), but Signatures wasn't one of them. Good article, really helpful. I might make my own some day ;) -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 17:51, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks! I think our help section needs some work as you say, so if you want help just ask!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:57, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

::I did some work on it, customizing to TG for one. I think I'll upload Disambiguation, because the current looks like a standard message. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 18:06, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

:::Let's see if it works. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:04, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

::::Looks good!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:44, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

== Fun Game and LOTR ==

This is great, nationstates.net. Create a nation and join my region "The Real Middle Earth" invite your friends and if you need help, I'm here.

== News ==

I've moved my nation to Arnor, contact me my nation is breragor.
Invite anyone you know to join my region also.
And how do you get the things on your profile that say like the race you prefer and lore level?

==Bot work==
If your bot works, here's some jobs:
* Move all images from category "Images of The Lord of the Rings: The White Council" to "Images from The Lord of the Rings: The White Council"
* Move all images from category "Images of The Battle for Middle-earth II" to "Images from The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II"

You think that's possible? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 12:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes! I tried the bot a few months ago and there was an error with it working with the site, so when you asked I thought it wouldn't work; but Hyarion must have fixed the problem. Your request is most certainly possible, and I'm doing it now. --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:04, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

==Google Maps for Arda==
Hey, I just wanted to ask whether you have tested my extension already. I don't mind if you haven't, 'cause I begin to realize how precious time is, now I've finished school and work 40 hours per week ;-) It just would be great if someone had tested it before Hyarion installs it on the TG server :) -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 21:18, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

:Hey Eldarion Telcontar, I'll get to it this weekend. I just went to download your file from rapidshare, but it looks like it's been deleted. Well done on making it, I look forward to see it working for myself. :) --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:52, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::Thanks for testing :) I've just uploaded the tiles on rapidshare again and updated the link [[User:Eldarion Telcontar/Google Maps for Arda/Installation|here]]. -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 18:10, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Did it work? :) -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 11:01, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Well, it appears that I have a JavaScript error. Proably something I've done wrong:
http://arda.agilityhoster.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:57, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

:::::It works well for me. Where and when did the errors appear? I have visited the site, edited the map and saved it without any errors. -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 19:55, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::hmm... It appears that it doesn't work in MS Internet Explorer. That's what I tried when I tested it. Now I've used firefox and it works fine on that. Any ideas as to why it's producing errors in IE? In firefox anyway it's brilliant, well done with putting it together; once we work out the kinks we can get it installed here and it'll be really useful. Thanks! --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:04, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

:::::::It's a for-each-loop that produces the errors in IE. The Microsoft browser recognizes "for (var a in b)" but not the following: "for each (var a in b)". FF knows both. I have deleted the "each" and Voila - it works in IE and FF... at least for me ;-) I have uploaded [http://gilgalad.piranho.de/extension/GoogleMapsJsExporter.zip this] file. Download it and replace the GoogleMapsJsExporter.php in extensions/GoogleMaps_Arda/export with the downloaded file. Now it should work for IE as well... I have also updated the file [[User:Eldarion Telcontar/Google Maps for Arda/Installation|here]]. -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 21:04, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::::Yay, it works! I've also tested it in Safari, and it works on that too. We should get to install it here and then I think it would be a good idea to create an infobox for locations and then all of our locations pages can have this map highlighting where the location is.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 20:23, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::::::Great. But I've discovered the same problem in the EditorsMap.js. I have tried to edit the map in IE and there was the same error. Therefore I have to ask you to replace a file again. I have uploaded the new EditorsMap.js [http://gilgalad.piranho.de/extension/EditorsMap.zip here]. Now the entire extension should work. I have looked for other "for each"es in the directory and there weren't any more ;-)
:::::::::If it works I will ask Hyarion to install the extension. -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 20:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::::::Done. Now we've got to see if Hyarion has time to install it here.
Once my hosting problems were sorted out, it only took me just under 10 minutes to get it fully downloaded and installed.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:00, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::::::::I think you may have forgotten to add "var wgGoogleMapsTiles = 'path of the tile images folder from step 1 goes here (e.g. "http://www.testsite.com/Tiles")';" to the beginning of the EditorsMap.js. I get an "wgGoogleMapsTiles undefined" error. Could you add this so that I can check whether the Editors Map works? -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 21:10, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::::::::Sorry about that, I forgot to add it to your new file. Well the editors map seems to work fine now.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Yeah, there aren't any more errors! I think we could risk installing it here now. Hopefully Hyarion has time for that. But firstly thank you soo much for installing MediaWiki on a server and then testing my extension on that. Thanks! Thanks! Thanks! :) -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 20:46, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

==Missed meeting==
Hi KingAragorn, I just wanted to say sorry for not having attended the meeting. I didn't log in for quite a time and so missed your message... But I was very glad to read that a meeting took place and you pushed for the Google Maps extension. Thanks! Hopefully we can implement maps in the articles soon now we have migrated to the new server. And I'll definitely attend the next meeting. Bye -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 19:46, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
:No problem. :) I think the extension should be installed soon, I'm not sure but you might need to upload the RapidShare file again (I'll download it and store it this time just in case). --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 04:33, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
::I have uploaded the RapidShare file again. -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 13:12, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

User:Eldarion Telcontar/Google Maps for Arda/Installation

2010-07-10T13:10:37Z

Eldarion Telcontar: updated download link once again

'''Note:''' Version 0.1 works with MediaWiki 1.5 and up. ''Note,'' however, the Editor's Map will only be available if you're using MediaWiki 1.6 or greater.

== Basic Installation in Five Easy Steps ==

1. Download this file, and unzip it into a directory on your webspace: [http://rapidshare.com/files/406126828/Tiles.zip Download!]

It should create a "Tiles" folder with five subfolders for the zoom levels.

2. Go sign up for a Google Maps API key from the [http://code.google.com/intl/de-DE/apis/maps/signup.html Google website].

3. Download this file, and unzip it into your "extensions" directory: [http://gilgalad.piranho.de/extension/GoogleMaps_Arda.zip Download!]

It should create a "GoogleMaps_Arda" folder with a few files.

4. Go in this folder and add this to the beginning of the EditorsMap.js:

var wgGoogleMapsTiles = 'path of the tile images folder from step 1 goes here (e.g. "http://www.testsite.com/Tiles")';

5. Add this to the end of LocalSettings.php in the MediaWiki directory (but before the final "?>"):

$wgGoogleMapsKey = "your key from step 2 goes here";
$wgGoogleMapsTiles = "path of the tile images folder from step 1 goes here (e.g. "http://www.testsite.com/Tiles")";
require_once( "$IP/extensions/GoogleMaps_Arda/GoogleMaps.php" );

If all went well, you should be good to go!

Tolkien Gateway:Requests for adminship

2010-07-09T19:50:52Z

Eldarion Telcontar: agree

This page is for '''requests for [[Tolkien Gateway:Administrators|adminship]]'''. Voting will last two weeks, at which time, if the vote is affirmative, the nominee will be granted admin status.

To view past requests, see the [[Tolkien Gateway:Requests for adminship/Archive|RFA archive]].

==Requirements==
There are some basic things to consider when nominating a fellow Tolkien Gatewayer (or yourself) for adminship.


#They have an account under a screenname.
#They have actively contributed for at least six months to the wiki.
#They have demonstrated they are willing to take on additional [[Tolkien Gateway:Administrators#Responsibilities|responsibilities]] to make the community better.
#They have had at least some major article creations.
#They have dealings with other users on a regular basis in a fair, restrained, and constructive manner.
#They have demonstrated an understanding of the community's methods of operation.
#Administrators votes must be unanimous for adminship to be accepted.

==Nominations==


===[[User:Mith|Mith]] (28/06/10)===
Two week deadline from first request (12/07/10).

====Support====
#I believe that this Wiki needs more sysops, and I believe [[User:Mith|Mith]] meets and exceeds all of the requirements listed above. As we discussed in the last meeting, adminship should not be seen as a promotion, rather a responsibility; I'm confident [[User:Mith|Mith]] will be able to meet the needs of this responsibility.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:14, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
#Ditto. '''Agree'''. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:17, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
#Agree. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:22, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
#'''Agree'''. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 22:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
#'''I agree''' --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:09, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
#'''Agree''' -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 19:50, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

====Oppose====

====Neutral/comments====

====Nominee's acceptance====
*Of course. And thank you to all those who have nominated me so far. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 22:33, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]

User talk:KingAragorn/2012

2010-07-09T19:46:49Z

Eldarion Telcontar: reply

Barad-dûr

2010-03-07T15:21:56Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

{{location
| image=[[Image:John Howe - The Dark Tower.jpg|300px]]
| name=Barad-dûr
| type=Tower
| location=Northwestern [[Mordor]]
| inhabitants=[[Sauron]], [[Nazgul]], [[Orcs]]
| realms=[[Mordor]]
| description= Gargantuan tower that hosted the [[Eye of Sauron]]
| othernames=Lugburz, The Dark Tower
| etymology=[[Sindarin|S.]] "Dark Tower"
| events=[[Siege of Barad-dur]], [[Downfall of Barad-dûr]]
| references=
|}}

{{Pronounce|Barad-dur.mp3|Ardamir}}

<center>{{quote|...wall upon wall, battlement upon battlement, black, immeasurably strong, mountain of iron, gate of steel, tower of adamant... Barad-dûr, fortress of Sauron.|Vision of [[Frodo Baggins]]<ref name="Breaking">{{FR|Breaking}}</ref>}}</center>

'''Barad-dûr''', the '''Dark Tower''', was the chief fortress of [[Sauron]], on the Plateau of [[Gorgoroth]] in [[Mordor]]. Known in [[Black Speech]] as '''[[Lugburz]]''', the Eye of Sauron kept watch over [[Middle-earth]] from its highest tower.

==Description==
Barad-Dûr was built upon the end of a long southern spur of the [[Ered Lithui]] in the northern part of the [[Plateau of Gorgoroth]]. It stood about 30 miles east of [[Mount Doom]] and about 100 miles southeast of the [[Black Gate]]. There was both a road leading north to the Black Gate and Sauron's road to the [[Sammath Naur]] leading west to Mount Doom.<ref name="Mount Doom">{{RK|Doom}}</ref> Latter ran from the Dark Tower's western gate over a deep abyss, the plain and around the mountain to the dark entrance of the Chambers of Fire.

Barad-Dûr was the greatest fortress ever built since the Fall of [[Angband]]. It was founded upon a mighty iron mountain throne above immeasurable pits and appeared even blacker and darker than the mantling clouds and shades in which it stood. It was immeasurably strong with its countless gargantuan towers, walls and battlements and was made of very hard and unbreakable substances.<ref name="Breaking"/> Usually it was described as made of steel, iron or adamant. It had gaping gates, great courts and dungeons with deep and terrible prisons.<ref name="Mount Doom"/>
Its topmost tower had cruel pinnacles and an iron crown from which in immeasurable height the piercing and never sleeping eye of Sauron stared out.

==History==
===First Building===
Sauron began to build Barad-dûr in around {{SA|1000}}, choosing Mordor as a land to make into a stronghold.<ref name="Tale">{{App|SA}}</ref> Around {{SA|1600}} he secretly forged the [[The One Ring|One Ring]] in the fires of [[Mount Doom]] and completed his fortress after 600 years of the construction with the power of the Ring.

During the following years Sauron was able to consolidate his power and extend it into the east.<ref name="Rings">{{S|Rings}}</ref> However, in {{SA|3262}}, [[Ar-Pharazôn]], king of [[Númenor]], landed at the [[Haven of Umbar]] with a great host and marched north to Mordor. Their splendor and might was so great that Sauron humbled himself before the king and came to Númenor as a hostage.

The year after the Downfall of Númenor in {{SA|3319}} Sauron's spirit secretly returned to Barad-dûr.<ref name="Tale"/> There he worked a terrible shape for himself, took up again the One Ring and prepared for war against the Eldar and the Exiles of Númenor who had established their realms in [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]].<ref name="Rings"/> He succeeded in taking [[Minas Ithil]] but in {{SA|3430}}<ref name="Tale"/> [[Elendil]] and [[Gil-Galad]] forged the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]] and defeated Sauron four years later in the [[Battle of Dagorlad]].<ref name="Rings"/> Then they passed into Mordor and besieged Barad-dûr. The siege lasted for seven years, Gil-Galad and Elendil were slain and in {{SA|3441}}<ref name="Tale"/> Sauron was finally defeated.<ref name="Rings"/> Isildur son of Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's hand and took it for his own instead of destroying it. The Dark Tower was finally leveled but its foundations remained since Barad-dûr was created using the power of the One Ring and couldn't be destroyed as long as that existed.

===Reconstruction===
Around {{TA|1050}} Sauron returned and secretly made a stronghold at [[Dol Guldur]].<ref name="Tale"/> [[Gandalf]] did not discover that Sauron was the master of Dol Guldur until {{TA|2850}}, and in {{TA|2941}} the [[White Council]] attacked the fortress. Sauron retreated to Barad-dûr which the [[Nazgûl]] had prepared for him and began to rebuild it in {{TA|2951}}. From then on Sauron stayed in Barad-dûr and conducted his war on the free people of Middle-Earth from there.

On [[March 25]], {{TA|3019}} the ring-bearer [[Frodo Baggins]] succeeded in destroying the One Ring although it was the creature [[Gollum]] who actually held the ring as it fell into the [[Cracks of Doom]]. With the Ring destroyed Barad-dûr ultimately collapsed to ruin and Sauron was finally defeated.

{{quote|A brief vision he had of swirling cloud, and in the midst of it towers and battlements, tall as hills, founded upon a mighty mountain-throne above immeasurable pits; great courts and dungeons, eyeless prisons sheer as cliffs, and gaping gates of steel and adamant: and then all passed. Towers fell and mountains slid; walls crumbled and melted, crashing down; vast spires of smoke and spouting steams went billowing up, up, until they toppled like an overwhelming wave, and its wild crest curled and came foaming down upon the land. And then at last over the miles between there came a rumble, rising to a deafening crash and roar; the earth shook, the plain heaved and cracked, and Orodruin reeled.|Vision of [[Samwise Gamgee]] from the downfall of Barad-Dûr<ref name="Mount Doom"/>}}

==Etymology==
Barad-Dûr translates from [[Sindarin]] as "Dark Tower". ''[[Barad]]'' means "tower" and ''[[Dûr]]'' means "dark".<ref name="App">{{S|Appendix}}</ref> Lugbúrz was the name of Barad-dûr in the Black Speech from ''[[Lug]]'' meaning "tower" and ''[[búrz]]'' meaning "dark".<ref>[http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/orkish.htm Orkish] at [[Ardalambion]]</ref>

==Portrayal in adaptations==
<center><gallery>
Image:Barad-dur_RB_Rotk.jpg|<center>''[[The Return of the King (1980 film)]]''</center>
Image:Barad-dur collapsing.jpg|<center>''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''</center>
Image:Barad-dur_FOTR_game.png|<center>''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]]''</center>
Image:Barad-dur_BFMEI.jpg|<center>''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]''</center>
Image:Barad-dur_BFMEII.jpg|<center>''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]''</center>
</gallery>
</center>

'''1980: ''[[The Return of the King (1980 film)]]'':'''
:Barad-dûr is portrayed as a simple fortress. During a [[One Ring|ring]]-induced dream, [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] dreams of taking the Ring and storming the Tower, but his common sense gains the upper hand in time.<ref>''[[The Return of the King (1980 film)]]'', "[[Samwise the Strong]]"</ref>

'''1981: ''[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)]]'':'''
:Barad-dûr is one of the first sites visited. After the [[Witch-king]] captures [[Gollum]] snooping on the edge of Mordor, the [[Mouth of Sauron]] questions the creature in the Dark Tower.<ref>''[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)]]'', "[[The Shadow of the Past (1982 episode)|The Shadow of the Past]]"</ref>

'''2001-3: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy]]'':'''
:In the [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings|''Lord of the Rings'' movies]] by [[Peter Jackson]], [[Richard Taylor]] and his design team built a 9 foot high miniature ("[[Bigatures|big-ature]]") of Barad-dûr for use in the film. Using the size scale for the model implemented for the films, the Dark Tower is depicted as being over 1500 meters (5,000 feet) tall.
:''[[Peter Jackson's The Return of the King|The Return of the King]]'' also shows Barad-dûr as clearly visible from the [[Black Gate]] of Mordor. Even granting its enormous size, it was located one hundred miles away and to the east of the Gate, and behind the inner mountain ridges of [[Udûn (valley)|Udûn]] so [[Aragorn]]'s army would probably not have been able to see it. In the film version, the geography of Mordor seems generally to have been compressed somewhat, perhaps for artistic reasons related to rendering such complex stories in a visual medium. In the case of the Black Gate scene, having Barad-dûr visible from the Gate means that the army can see the Eye of Sauron staring at them.

'''2002: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]]'':'''
:The Tower is briefly visible in the opening scene. [[Galadriel]] narrates a vision from her [[Mirror of Galadriel|Mirror]]. It is only referred to a "The Dark Tower of Mordor", and it is the base of the [[Ringwraiths]] (as opposed to [[Minas Morgul]]). The Eye of Sauron is portrayed as a fiery eye at the top, but only visible for a split second.

'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]'':'''
:Barad-dûr is shown in the introduction scene, looking similar to its movie design. It does not play a role in any of the campaigns, and does not appear on any of the maps.

'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''
:Like in its predecessor, the tower of Barad-dûr plays no active role in this game. In the "War of the Ring" mode, it can be seen in the territory of Mordor, but it is absent on the map itself.

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Barad-dûr|Images of Barad-dûr]]
* [[Siege of Barad-dûr]]
* [[Mordor]]

{{references}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Barad-dur}}
[[Category:Towers]]
[[Category:Pronounced articles]]
[[Category:Sindarin locations]]
[[Category:Mordor]]
[[Category:Fortresses of Evil]]

[[de:Barad-dûr]]
[[fr:encyclo:geographie:villes_tours_et_forteresses:mordor:barad-dur]]
[[fi:Barad-dûr]]
[[fi:Musta Torni]]

User talk:Ederchil

2010-03-07T08:49:19Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

{{usertalk}}
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=Archive=
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]''' 
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''
=2010=
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== My Bot ==

Hi Ederchil, is it possible you could add [[User:Mithbot]] to the [[Special:ListUsers&group=bot|bot usergroup]] (no idea why that's a redlinks: it works for me) so I can do some menial and boring tasks quickly? Thanks, --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:50, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

:I'm only a sysop, not a [[wikipedia:WP:BUR|bureaucrat]], so I can't change user group rights. You could PM or email Hyarion for this. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:50, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

::Oh, OK, I thought you were (wishful thinking!). Thanks anyway! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:57, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

:::Actually, I thought I was too :) -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:21, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

== Main page spelling mistake ==

Hello - while using this wiki, I noticed that main page's featured article has a spelling mistake. It should be '''borne''' not ''born'' in the sentence "Glamdring was the sword once born by Turgon, King of Gondolin." I can't edit the page! :) [[User:Darth Newdar|Darth Newdar]] 17:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

:Thank you. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:40, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== The Peril to the Shire page ==

Just wanted to know why you keep editing the page I'm building on "The Peril to the Shire". I worked rather hard on it, yet you keep re-arranging and deleting stuff. It would be nice if you asked first, or at least let me know what you are up to.

Doug Dunklin, producer/director of "The Peril to the Shire"
"[[User:Ltcdunk|Ltcdunk]] 20:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)"

:I figured you were involved in production. First of all, thank you for contributing.

:I basically rearranged a lot to make it fit our [[TG:MOS|Manual of Style]] and deleted a lot because it was (in my eyes) repetition. Also, a lot of text in long sentences does not improve readability, and detracts attention from your own website (we don't want to be ''too'' complete now, do we?). --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

== An image page won't load ==
I was trying to load the entry page for [[:Image:Middle-earth (large).jpg]], and all I get from the server is an empty page. I reloaded repeatedly, and I still get an empty page. I tried other images in [[:Category:Non-canon maps|the category I found it in]], and many other pages load fine. But this page won't. A couple others won't too—I suspect that the large file size may have something to do with it, but that's just a guess. Maybe the server is failing to generate a thumbnail for images that size? I just don't know. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 17:07, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

:I'm not really having trouble with the image itself, but I think you're referring to [[MERP: Middle-earth Role Playing Poster Maps]], the page on which it is embedded. I have the same issue. I managed to sneak into the history via [[User:Morgan|Morgan]]'s contributions and removed the image (resizing it gave problems again). -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:50, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Now an entire ''category'' page won't load, and I didn't exactly embed images into the page body either. o.o [[:Category:Maps of Minas Tirith]]. It displayed mostly alright after I created it, but now the category page is just a white blank, like some of the image pages. Is it possible that MediaWiki or one of its backend programs is running out of memory? Or another kind of error? How do we fix this kind of thing? - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 09:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

:Apparently a new image problem, "Error creating thumbnail: Invalid thumbnail parameters". Don't know about the category. i'll see if I can email Hyarion about this. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

::I've seen that problem before, on Wikia. The problem is, an image has too many millions of pixels to buffer into memory to create a thumbnail. It doesn't matter if the file itself is small—if it has very large dimensions, the thumbnail backend software runs out of memory trying to generate a thumbnail for it. This can be fixed by increasing the amount of memory it's permitted to allocate, if that is possible. I've been thinking that memory increase may greatly benefit the particular Tolkien interest that involves very highly-detailed maps, as Tolkien is full of those. Either that or we split up some of the largest images into multiple segmented image files. That'll be easy for PNGs, but not for JPEGs. Recently I uploaded some very large maps, including one of Middle-earth (Role-playing Game canon, I think), and another absolutely gorgeous non-canon map of Minas Tirith (which may have been involved in making that category page show blank). It would be a shame if those couldn't be displayed. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 14:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

[[:Image:Minas Anor 2000.jpg‎]] is the new Minas Tirith map I uploaded. (It's fantastic, don't you think?) It's the only Minas Tirith image of the new maps I recently uploaded, and it almost certainly is related to the page [[:Category:Maps of Minas Tirith]] showing blank now. 
Honestly, Tolkien wiki has hundreds of wonderful maps, and it would be in our interests to be able to display all of them, even the very large files or the images of very large dimensions. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 15:01, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

==Anna Lee==
Sorry about the peacock-term "beautiful". - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 15:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

:No problem. Though I do agree, it's just not encyclopedic. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

== On the future of dictionary-style entries ==

There has been a recent heavy debate on this at [[Forum:Quenya declension template appearance]]. Since you have weighed on this before, could you weigh in now? I originally went ahead with this project after asking about it, and you seemed to approve. To be honest, my concern is mainly linguistic and grammatical, and I didn't want to get so involved in a debate about whether linguistics on this wiki are at all even noteworthy. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 01:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

:Sorry, my attention tends to drop away with long paragraphs and no images :), so I didn't respond. Will do now. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 13:54, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thank you for your feedback. You always seem like a gentle voice of wisdom here and I appreciate it. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 18:11, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

== Withdrawing inflection templates ==

Considering the highly-controversial and sometimes flame-war-bait nature of trying to fully inflect Tolkien's languages in this wiki, I want to withdraw the entire inflection project. But I'm not sure how to do it. I think it would involve deleting all the embedded templates and "Inflection" sections. But considering the heavy time and energy I put into it all, it may take about as much just to remove them. I just don't know how to get it done quickly. But I want to get this all behind me and away from this controversy. And I swear, swear, ''swear'' that I didn't have a clue about the elvish.org vs. Ardalambion controversies, etc. My primary source of all data was Ardalambion and closely associated sites. I didn't know there was such a heated holy war involved in the issue. I think I would generally agree with Ardalambion (elvish.org's FAQs sound really stuck-up to my inner anti-copyright liberal socialistic streak), but I don't want to be on the front lines of this—I don't want to be confrontational, not on purpose. I'd rather practice the fan-standardized aspects of the languages in my private user pages or other informal venues, and only practice harder data in the articles. Ederchil, please help me. Are there any more powerful wiki tools (bots, etc.) we can use to clean this up? I have to make this right. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 05:12, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

:It's a pity, because you've certainly put lots of time in the process. But you could blame us in a way; we should've responded earlier.
:We do have bots, though I fear this kind of job would have to be done by hand. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:15, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

::Ouch. Well, at least they're all marked with "inflection" (an easily searchable word), and the templates are currently hidden from display (but near "inflection" making them easy to edit). I suppose this is a job that could be done gradually over time...if everyone pitched in, I mean. It's just...well...I want to get past the issue, very much so. I want to get past potential future forum postings of "what are all these invisible templates and why are they all over the place"? I cringe thinking of that. And I feel like having a wikistress attack when I search "inflection" and see hundreds of results that are all my work. I wish there were an easier way through this. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 09:21, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I just removed one search page's worth. About 19 or 20. And then I clicked "500", and it refreshed the first page, and...there are ''more'' than 500. How on earth did I embed so many in seemingly such a short time? I've ruined your wiki. :( - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 09:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

:It's not mine, so it's okay :). I'll see if I can do some of them. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

::I know you don't ''own'' it, but you are a sysadmin. It's practically yours. You have so much work to do here as it is, and I'm certainly no help. I mean, I do...maybe...IPA, categories, userboxes, navboxes... ...oh. Well, I guess I've done ''something''. And then I filled half the wiki with controversial inflections. I have this feeling like I'm a small child who's been caught covering the walls of an entire house with crayon. This all would be hilarious if it weren't all so...inconveniencing to people. XD - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 10:34, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I've removed some more inflections (a few dozen, maybe), and now there are less than 500 articles with the word "inflection" in them. I've been working from the opposite end of the search results, so that I wouldn't step on your toes in case you were working from the top of the list. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 21:45, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

:I just want to apologise. I didn't intend for all of these to be removed in their entirety, there was definitely something there worth having, just probably not in its current appearance or scale. Does that make sense? I am sorry, though, you've felt the need to remove the lot.

:If [[User:Mithbot|Mithbot]] had been approved by [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] (where is he?!) I would get it to do all this work on (y)our behalf. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:21, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

::Since Hyarion finished school and has a job, he has found himself having less and less time for the internet.
::I think it's better to do it manually, actually, because it also gives you the opportunity to clean the articles up a bit. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:28, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

::It won't be a complete loss. Once all the templates are removed, someone can go back and make a brief note about Quenya nouns' stem forms and Sindarin nouns' special conditions (like whether a noun that begins with b/d/g mutates like b/d/g or like mb/nd/ng), and also notes regarding Sindarin plurals and Quenya irregular plurals (that may have just been fickle because of Tolkien changing his mind at least once). Then, if you ''believe'' in regular rules, you can read them and ascertain inflections for yourself.
::Anyway, Mith, I'm also sorry for grating on your nerves before. You can read my final explanation on my chronically abnormal way of communication at the forum post where we did most of our talking. I'm always going to be very strange to talk to, and I don't want you grated or anything (I never did in the first place), but I'm hoping you can at least acclimate to it and see my good faith, even if most times I have no common sense.
::And if you need your bot approved, and Hyarion is not available to provide approval, then does anyone (perhaps Ederchil) have the authority to (at least tentatively) approve it? - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 18:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

:::Nope. I'm not a bureaucrat. See above. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

::::Mith, you don't ''have'' to have your bot user made into an official bot for it to work; the only thing it will do is hide the bot's edits from the recent changes page - so if the other contributors don't mind it clogging up the recent changes page, I'm sure you could use it. ;) --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 11:34, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== MediaWiki memory limit ==

I read on various MediaWiki support sites that the reason categories and image pages with very large images (in file size or dimensions) show a blank page is because of a PHP error caused by running out of memory. Since Tolkien Gateway is never going to have a shortage of highly-detailed high-resolution maps, is it possible we could ask Hyarion to increase the wiki's memory limit? Perhaps to 64MB or more? - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 05:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

:I don't know yet when I'll mail him, but I'll ask him. You can also mail him yourself, of course :). -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:46, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

::I didn't know how to contact him. Besides, he and I have never been acquainted in a wiki-working interaction. I'd be a stranger who was feature-begging. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 20:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

:::I have so much free time now (a cold took my voice away and a sprained ankle) that I keep forgetting to mail him. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

== Main Page ==

Hi, could you make another article the next improvement drive article? I think [[Barad-dûr]] has improved quite much and although the "Portrayal in adaptations" section lacks some information about the earlier films I think that we should take the next article on the Main Page. What do you think?
A few suggestions: [[Angband]], [[Battle of Dagorlad]], [[Bywater]], [[Dale]], [[Glaurung]], [[Peter Jackson]], [[Mount Doom]], [[Treebeard]], [[Tuor]] -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:23, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

:I've been meaning to do the Adaptations section but I keep forgetting. Since I only now realize I'm already already half an hour into Sunday, let me just say I'll do it this afternoon.

:As for the new one, my vote's for [[Tuor]]. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 23:27, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

::I was just about to suggest Tuor! Great minds... --{{User:Mith/sig}} 00:13, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

:::Great! Then let's take Tuor. -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 08:49, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Ederchil

2010-03-06T23:23:39Z

Eldarion Telcontar: question

{{usertalk}}
{| align="right"
| __TOC__
|}
<center>
=Archive=
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]''' 
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''
=2010=
</center>


== My Bot ==

Hi Ederchil, is it possible you could add [[User:Mithbot]] to the [[Special:ListUsers&group=bot|bot usergroup]] (no idea why that's a redlinks: it works for me) so I can do some menial and boring tasks quickly? Thanks, --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:50, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

:I'm only a sysop, not a [[wikipedia:WP:BUR|bureaucrat]], so I can't change user group rights. You could PM or email Hyarion for this. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:50, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

::Oh, OK, I thought you were (wishful thinking!). Thanks anyway! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:57, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

:::Actually, I thought I was too :) -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:21, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

== Main page spelling mistake ==

Hello - while using this wiki, I noticed that main page's featured article has a spelling mistake. It should be '''borne''' not ''born'' in the sentence "Glamdring was the sword once born by Turgon, King of Gondolin." I can't edit the page! :) [[User:Darth Newdar|Darth Newdar]] 17:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

:Thank you. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:40, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== The Peril to the Shire page ==

Just wanted to know why you keep editing the page I'm building on "The Peril to the Shire". I worked rather hard on it, yet you keep re-arranging and deleting stuff. It would be nice if you asked first, or at least let me know what you are up to.

Doug Dunklin, producer/director of "The Peril to the Shire"
"[[User:Ltcdunk|Ltcdunk]] 20:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)"

:I figured you were involved in production. First of all, thank you for contributing.

:I basically rearranged a lot to make it fit our [[TG:MOS|Manual of Style]] and deleted a lot because it was (in my eyes) repetition. Also, a lot of text in long sentences does not improve readability, and detracts attention from your own website (we don't want to be ''too'' complete now, do we?). --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

== An image page won't load ==
I was trying to load the entry page for [[:Image:Middle-earth (large).jpg]], and all I get from the server is an empty page. I reloaded repeatedly, and I still get an empty page. I tried other images in [[:Category:Non-canon maps|the category I found it in]], and many other pages load fine. But this page won't. A couple others won't too—I suspect that the large file size may have something to do with it, but that's just a guess. Maybe the server is failing to generate a thumbnail for images that size? I just don't know. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 17:07, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

:I'm not really having trouble with the image itself, but I think you're referring to [[MERP: Middle-earth Role Playing Poster Maps]], the page on which it is embedded. I have the same issue. I managed to sneak into the history via [[User:Morgan|Morgan]]'s contributions and removed the image (resizing it gave problems again). -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:50, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Now an entire ''category'' page won't load, and I didn't exactly embed images into the page body either. o.o [[:Category:Maps of Minas Tirith]]. It displayed mostly alright after I created it, but now the category page is just a white blank, like some of the image pages. Is it possible that MediaWiki or one of its backend programs is running out of memory? Or another kind of error? How do we fix this kind of thing? - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 09:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

:Apparently a new image problem, "Error creating thumbnail: Invalid thumbnail parameters". Don't know about the category. i'll see if I can email Hyarion about this. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 14:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

::I've seen that problem before, on Wikia. The problem is, an image has too many millions of pixels to buffer into memory to create a thumbnail. It doesn't matter if the file itself is small—if it has very large dimensions, the thumbnail backend software runs out of memory trying to generate a thumbnail for it. This can be fixed by increasing the amount of memory it's permitted to allocate, if that is possible. I've been thinking that memory increase may greatly benefit the particular Tolkien interest that involves very highly-detailed maps, as Tolkien is full of those. Either that or we split up some of the largest images into multiple segmented image files. That'll be easy for PNGs, but not for JPEGs. Recently I uploaded some very large maps, including one of Middle-earth (Role-playing Game canon, I think), and another absolutely gorgeous non-canon map of Minas Tirith (which may have been involved in making that category page show blank). It would be a shame if those couldn't be displayed. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 14:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

[[:Image:Minas Anor 2000.jpg‎]] is the new Minas Tirith map I uploaded. (It's fantastic, don't you think?) It's the only Minas Tirith image of the new maps I recently uploaded, and it almost certainly is related to the page [[:Category:Maps of Minas Tirith]] showing blank now. 
Honestly, Tolkien wiki has hundreds of wonderful maps, and it would be in our interests to be able to display all of them, even the very large files or the images of very large dimensions. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 15:01, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

==Anna Lee==
Sorry about the peacock-term "beautiful". - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 15:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

:No problem. Though I do agree, it's just not encyclopedic. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

== On the future of dictionary-style entries ==

There has been a recent heavy debate on this at [[Forum:Quenya declension template appearance]]. Since you have weighed on this before, could you weigh in now? I originally went ahead with this project after asking about it, and you seemed to approve. To be honest, my concern is mainly linguistic and grammatical, and I didn't want to get so involved in a debate about whether linguistics on this wiki are at all even noteworthy. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 01:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

:Sorry, my attention tends to drop away with long paragraphs and no images :), so I didn't respond. Will do now. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 13:54, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thank you for your feedback. You always seem like a gentle voice of wisdom here and I appreciate it. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 18:11, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

== Withdrawing inflection templates ==

Considering the highly-controversial and sometimes flame-war-bait nature of trying to fully inflect Tolkien's languages in this wiki, I want to withdraw the entire inflection project. But I'm not sure how to do it. I think it would involve deleting all the embedded templates and "Inflection" sections. But considering the heavy time and energy I put into it all, it may take about as much just to remove them. I just don't know how to get it done quickly. But I want to get this all behind me and away from this controversy. And I swear, swear, ''swear'' that I didn't have a clue about the elvish.org vs. Ardalambion controversies, etc. My primary source of all data was Ardalambion and closely associated sites. I didn't know there was such a heated holy war involved in the issue. I think I would generally agree with Ardalambion (elvish.org's FAQs sound really stuck-up to my inner anti-copyright liberal socialistic streak), but I don't want to be on the front lines of this—I don't want to be confrontational, not on purpose. I'd rather practice the fan-standardized aspects of the languages in my private user pages or other informal venues, and only practice harder data in the articles. Ederchil, please help me. Are there any more powerful wiki tools (bots, etc.) we can use to clean this up? I have to make this right. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 05:12, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

:It's a pity, because you've certainly put lots of time in the process. But you could blame us in a way; we should've responded earlier.
:We do have bots, though I fear this kind of job would have to be done by hand. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:15, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

::Ouch. Well, at least they're all marked with "inflection" (an easily searchable word), and the templates are currently hidden from display (but near "inflection" making them easy to edit). I suppose this is a job that could be done gradually over time...if everyone pitched in, I mean. It's just...well...I want to get past the issue, very much so. I want to get past potential future forum postings of "what are all these invisible templates and why are they all over the place"? I cringe thinking of that. And I feel like having a wikistress attack when I search "inflection" and see hundreds of results that are all my work. I wish there were an easier way through this. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 09:21, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I just removed one search page's worth. About 19 or 20. And then I clicked "500", and it refreshed the first page, and...there are ''more'' than 500. How on earth did I embed so many in seemingly such a short time? I've ruined your wiki. :( - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 09:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

:It's not mine, so it's okay :). I'll see if I can do some of them. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

::I know you don't ''own'' it, but you are a sysadmin. It's practically yours. You have so much work to do here as it is, and I'm certainly no help. I mean, I do...maybe...IPA, categories, userboxes, navboxes... ...oh. Well, I guess I've done ''something''. And then I filled half the wiki with controversial inflections. I have this feeling like I'm a small child who's been caught covering the walls of an entire house with crayon. This all would be hilarious if it weren't all so...inconveniencing to people. XD - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 10:34, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I've removed some more inflections (a few dozen, maybe), and now there are less than 500 articles with the word "inflection" in them. I've been working from the opposite end of the search results, so that I wouldn't step on your toes in case you were working from the top of the list. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 21:45, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

:I just want to apologise. I didn't intend for all of these to be removed in their entirety, there was definitely something there worth having, just probably not in its current appearance or scale. Does that make sense? I am sorry, though, you've felt the need to remove the lot.

:If [[User:Mithbot|Mithbot]] had been approved by [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] (where is he?!) I would get it to do all this work on (y)our behalf. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:21, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

::Since Hyarion finished school and has a job, he has found himself having less and less time for the internet.
::I think it's better to do it manually, actually, because it also gives you the opportunity to clean the articles up a bit. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:28, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

::It won't be a complete loss. Once all the templates are removed, someone can go back and make a brief note about Quenya nouns' stem forms and Sindarin nouns' special conditions (like whether a noun that begins with b/d/g mutates like b/d/g or like mb/nd/ng), and also notes regarding Sindarin plurals and Quenya irregular plurals (that may have just been fickle because of Tolkien changing his mind at least once). Then, if you ''believe'' in regular rules, you can read them and ascertain inflections for yourself.
::Anyway, Mith, I'm also sorry for grating on your nerves before. You can read my final explanation on my chronically abnormal way of communication at the forum post where we did most of our talking. I'm always going to be very strange to talk to, and I don't want you grated or anything (I never did in the first place), but I'm hoping you can at least acclimate to it and see my good faith, even if most times I have no common sense.
::And if you need your bot approved, and Hyarion is not available to provide approval, then does anyone (perhaps Ederchil) have the authority to (at least tentatively) approve it? - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 18:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

:::Nope. I'm not a bureaucrat. See above. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

::::Mith, you don't ''have'' to have your bot user made into an official bot for it to work; the only thing it will do is hide the bot's edits from the recent changes page - so if the other contributors don't mind it clogging up the recent changes page, I'm sure you could use it. ;) --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 11:34, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== MediaWiki memory limit ==

I read on various MediaWiki support sites that the reason categories and image pages with very large images (in file size or dimensions) show a blank page is because of a PHP error caused by running out of memory. Since Tolkien Gateway is never going to have a shortage of highly-detailed high-resolution maps, is it possible we could ask Hyarion to increase the wiki's memory limit? Perhaps to 64MB or more? - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 05:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

:I don't know yet when I'll mail him, but I'll ask him. You can also mail him yourself, of course :). -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:46, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

::I didn't know how to contact him. Besides, he and I have never been acquainted in a wiki-working interaction. I'd be a stranger who was feature-begging. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 20:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

:::I have so much free time now (a cold took my voice away and a sprained ankle) that I keep forgetting to mail him. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

== Main Page ==

Hi, could you make another article the next improvement drive article? I think [[Barad-dûr]] has improved quite much and although the "Portrayal in adaptations" section lacks some information about the earlier films I think that we should take the next article on the Main Page. What do you think?
A few suggestions: [[Angband]], [[Battle of Dagorlad]], [[Bywater]], [[Dale]], [[Glaurung]], [[Peter Jackson]], [[Mount Doom]], [[Treebeard]], [[Tuor]] -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:23, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations

2010-03-06T23:07:38Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

== Featured Quote Nominations ==

There have never really been any standards for a '''Featured Quote''', but let us begin. Following the general model of the '''Featured Article''', let's specify a nomination followed by five affirmative votes; state either '''Agree''' or '''Disagree'''. The nominated quote should not exceed a single paragraph.

=== Tolkien's Own ===
{{quote|The Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects the generally small reach of their imagination --not the small reach of their courage or latent power.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]}}

:'''Disagree'''; though, yes, Tolkien wrote them all, the first and third are in-universe and should thus be attributed to their respective characters. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

::'''Undecided''' -I think if you add "- not the small reach of their courage or latent power" to the end, then I might agree.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

=== Fingolfin v. Morgoth ===
{{quote|[[Morgoth]] held hurled aloft [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond, Hammer of the Underworld]], and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time [[Fingolfin]] leaped away, as a lightning shoots from under dark cloud; and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts of [[Angband]] fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the [[Northlands]].|{{S|Fingolfin}}}}

I know it's a longer one - and I don't mind it being made shorter (in fact it probably is a bit too long; maybe from "''Many times...''" onwards) - but I just love it because I have a natural bias towards Fingolfin! Indeed, any of the quotes from this paragraph or the subsequent couple of paragraphs would, I think, be excellent because it captures a key even in the history of [[Arda]] with Tolkien's excellent literary skill. Also, would be good to have a quote about a non-[[Third Age]] event. '''Proposed by:''' --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': I like the quote in full. It gives a good idea of the tone of Sil. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 22:32, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:'''Agree''': Great Quote! Good to have a quote from The Silmarillion... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 21:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

=== Gandalf at The Last Debate ===
{{quote|It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."|[[The Last Debate]]}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]]

==Gandalf on the Departure of Bilbo==
{{quote|You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think, "said [[Gandalf|the wizard]]. "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', "[[A Long-expected Party]]"}}

'''Proposed by:''' -- {{User:Breragor/sig}}

:'''Agree''': I like this quote because it tells how Frodo gets the ring. It's great how relaxed Gandalf tells Frodo that he has inherited the most powerful object in middle-earth... -- [[User:Eldarion Telcontar|Eldarion Telcontar]] 23:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway: Featured quotes]]

Tolkien Gateway:Collaborations

2010-02-13T23:02:09Z

Eldarion Telcontar:

These articles have been nominated because they are major articles which need a great deal of improvement.

==Nominations==
* [[First Battle of the Fords of Isen]]
* [[Second Battle of the Fords of Isen]]
* [[Fall of Nargothrond]]
* [[Fall of the Falas]]
* [[Tol Eressëa]]
* [[Khazad-dûm]]
* [[Bilbo Baggins]]
* [[Frodo Baggins]]
* [[Finrod Felagund]]
* [[Disaster of the Morannon]]
* [[Sack of Eregion]]
* [[Battle of Dagorlad]]
* [[Sack of Bar-en-Danwedh]]
* [[Battle of the Plains]]
* [[War of the Last Alliance]]
* [[Théodred]]
==Future collaborations==
==Past collaborations==
* [[Barad-dûr]]

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]