Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-23T13:55:59Z

Maedhros95:

{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014}}
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''⇒ Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table>

== Hans-Ulrich Möhring ==

Hey Mith! I saw, that you deleted the article about the German translator Hans-Ulrich Möhring (''The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún'') with the comment ''"Just not notable enough"''. Möhring was now responsible for the German translation of another posthum released work. ''The Fall of Arthur'' will be published under the title ''König Arthurs Untergang'' on 21 March, 2015 in Germany, translated by Hans-Ulrich Möhring. I think, that two translations of complex lyrics by J.R.R. Tolkien are enough to legitimate the existence of an article about him. What do you think? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

:For me, no (although others might take a different view). We have a painful habit on TG of creating articles about individuals which are essentially one line: "X is a Y who worked on Z." Is there anything (verifiable) to say about Möhring as translator of ''Sigurd and Gudrún'' and ''The Fall of Arthur'' beyond the fact that he translated them? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:14, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

::I see what you mean. To write something about his translation work on ''The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún'' (in my opinion) would make no sense in an English Wiki, so the only mentionable point would be the fact, that Möhring corresponded with Tom Shippey while translating. If you think, that the article is of no importance for Tolkien Gateway, then it's ok. I just wanted to know the reasons. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

:::If he'd corresponded with Tolkien himself then that would put him in a different category, in my view. My fear is having an article that essentially doesn't really tell the reader anything. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

== Page merging question ==

Hey Mith, I went ahead and tackled merging [[Sea-elves]] into [[Teleri]]. I wasn't sure if my method of merging the pages was right: I copied the wiki-edit text to the other page and edited it some, then marked the original page for deletion. I changed the links that lead to Sea-elves to [[Falmari]] or Teleri where needed. I wasn't sure if this was good or if I needed to do anything else/something different. [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 19:39, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

:Hi xsys, and welcome to Tolkien Gateway! To merge a page we transfer the appropriate content and turn the page into a redirect (i.e. we don't mark it for deletion) - the reason for this is so people who search for "Sea-elves" will be taken to the Teleri page, for example. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

::That makes sense. Thanks! [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 20:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

==Images==

Good evening. This is [[User talk:2.84.120.176|User2.84.120.176]]. Could you upload upload more images on the page [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]];I dont have this ability, but you do have this ability. Upload and put these NEW images on the Category:Images from The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies.OK; {{unsignedanon|2.84.120.176}}

:Thanks for getting in touch. Remembering that the DVD of ''The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies'' isn't out yet (and therefore screencaps aren't so easy to obtain), do you have any particular images in mind? Or, perhaps you could [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&type=signup sign up to Tolkien Gateway] and upload them yourself? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

==Reminding==

Hi Mith, I wonder if you could please check your email? I've sent you a request a week ago :) [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 10:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

:I have received the email but I passed it onto [[User:Hyarion]] to respond. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot. Anyway, I hope that he could reply to us soon, since, as it seems, he does not appear frequently. So here I put this forward again, mean not in the slightest to bother you. We are eager to make contact with Alan Lee, so I would be appreciated if you could give me the email address of him. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 16:44, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

:::I generally don't give out other people's email addresses without their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

:::I must apologize for my rudeness and discourtesy. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 23:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

== Quick Question ==

How do you create separate pages on a page that you are creating? {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}

:I don't understand what you mean. Create a separate page on a page you are creating? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

::Sort of, you know on a user page how you can create the different subtitles for your pages. I am wondering how to do that. {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}

:::The same as you would create any other page: simply type the pagename as a URL and then press "create an article with that title". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

::::Oh, thanks {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}

==Mithrellas==

May I ask why have you deleted the infobox? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 09:49, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:You're going to need to be more specific: what infobox have I deleted? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::My mistake. I have just realized you reverted the edits to the period where there was no infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:43, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::If you're going to insist on making three, four, five, six - and one occasion, nine! - consecutive edits, things like this will happen. Apologies for reverting the infobox as well but please can you try to learn to use the "Show preview" button and plan you edits. Nine small edits to an article are not necessary. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:59, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::I take it back. Your record is actually 10 edits in a row ([[Tréowine]]). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::::I know how to use the "Show preview" very well...But like I said, it often happens that I forget to include something in an article and have to edit it again. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::::You forget nine times in a row? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::::::Maybe "forget" is a wrong word (although not completely). "Change my mind" would be a more appropriate word. Besides, you are editing for years and I, myself, only for a couple of days. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::::::Indeed. I think we're all aware of that! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

==Copyright for images==

Please, how can I get the copyright for an image that I want to upload, but that isn't already in the "Category:Evidence of permission granted by copyright holders" section? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:You will need to contact the copyright-holder and ask for their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::By e-mail solely? Because I have already contacted a number of artists and they all gave permission. Technicality is my main issue in this matter. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::There needs to be some evidence in case it's ever challenged. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::::Here's one: http://www.deviantart.com/messages/notes/#1_0/1281622023 [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 18:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

==Obituary title==

''Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923'' is the official title of the obituary published in [[Bulletin of the Modern Humanities Research Association 20]] . All references I consulted used this title.So I think the article it should remain with that name. {{unsigned|Sigurd}}

:Absolutely not. Aside from the fact I don't think we need an article for an obituary written for someone on whom we have [[Henry Bradley|a very short article]] (we'd end up with a longer article on the obituary than on the man himself!), naming the article "''Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923''" would be ridiculous verbose and unwieldy. If an article must be made it should be something like "Obituary for Henry Bradley", but I would be against its creation. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:31, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

::I dont think ridiculous since Tolkien himself give the name to the article. Someone put the same name in reference of that Bulletin 1923 here:[[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien]].And other books I read use the same name.In addition, the obituary contains a poem written by Tolkien in Old English. And also this obituary has his own topic on [[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]([[User:Sigurd|Sigurd]] 21:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC))

:::Did Tolkien give the title, or was that the editor? In any case, it is a title of a printed obituary, not an online webpage. Any article title we choose would also be the URL. We aren't the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia and our usage should not - and does not - reflect what they have done. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

==Ninni-V==
Can you please rename the pictures of Ninni-V to Antonio Vinci. By the request of the artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:Can you please email me where the artists have granted their permission for their work to be hosted on Tolkien Gateway? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:06, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

::I have asked the permission via note on DeviantArt. What would you like me to do? You cannot access the notes considering they are private and cannot be read unless one is logged in. So....??? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:::{{blockquote|Also, as a bit of housekeeping, can you forward to me either a copy of the emails from the artists '''or a screenprint''' so we have a bit of a proof - my email is {{nospam|mith|tolkiengateway.net}}. Cheers --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC)<br/><br/>Yes, I will. But just one reminder: all the images by '''VunastiMamut''' are mine. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)|[[User talk:Woolly Mammoth]]}}

:::--{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

::::I have send you an email with a screen print for the said artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::Thanks. What about the others? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::I will. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::I have. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 16:57, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

==Vandalism==

Mith, we have a problem. There is this random guy going by the name of Webbane who is destroying stuff right now! [[User:Bane|Bane]]

:He has deleted off my page, yours, Woolly's, the Forum and a load of paragraphs from articles. Can we remove his account or something??? {{unsigned|Arya}}

::It's all been dealt with now. Isn't it interesting how a User:Bane and a User:Webbane pop up on the same night! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

==Why are you deleting MY images??==
Those images that you have deleted are my artwork! Is this vandalism or what???? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:I thought you said that they were all by other people - apologies. Although your picture of Uldor is [http://qnwn.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=116&Itemid=110&page=2 remarkably similar to one by James Adams] (also known as Sporeboy)? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::Maybe because I borrowed the pictures from some of (with permission, which I have sent you by email) those guys, aye? Some of the pictures are by other people, AND some of them are mine (namely Elmo, Bór, Uldor, Formenos!). You are behaving like an asshole and you have no right (beside being an administrator), absolutely no right to delete those images!

:::Do not speak to me like that again. As an administrator I have every right to delete any image on this website whether it be yours or anyone else's.

:::So, your image of Uldor. Did you "borrow" the one from Sporeboy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::I will speak as I want to! And, considering your image of Uldor I granted the permission to use my artwork. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:41, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::You will be civil on this wiki or you will leave. Sporeboy gave you permission to amend his image? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

==Gaurwaith==
Hello! I know I posted this before on the Template:Gaurwaith talk page, but seriously, why isn't [[Andvír]] there? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

:Fun fact: did you know there's only ever been [[Forum:Ilúvatar infobox|one other user in Tolkien Gateway's 10-year history to use the phrase "but seriously"]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

::You did not answer my question. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

:::Because I haven't finished the template yet (which is why it hasn't been added to any article). Perhaps you should wait and see first before discussing the matter on two talk pages. Did you know about my fun fact? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

::::"But seriously"? I reckon you must have spent years searching through every word and sentence on this page to come to that conclusion. And besides, what does that have to do with me? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::Nope - took me about 10 seconds. OK. I'll call it. In my view you are a sockpuppet for Woolly Mammoth. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:42, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::First of all: how did you even come to the conclusion that I'm an alter ego of some other user? I have just signed up and I am already being accused of being a "sockpuppet" for some guy that I have never heard of until now. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::There are quite a number of signs; we'll be checking IPs later today. If you aren't WM I do sincerely apologise as this probably makes me look like a bit of a nutter; but if you are WM I have to admit that I am actually a bit impressed by your commitment to Tolkien Gateway that you have created a sockpuppet in order to carry on doing good work. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

==Music==
Do we have a license to use [[Tolkien Ensemble]]'s songs on this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:07, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

:No. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:16, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

::Laconic answer...Can we get one? There are images on this site with licenses ranging from artists of Deviantart, to artists of likes of [[John Howe]], [[Alan Lee]] and [[Ted Nasmith]]. Why not include music in this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

:::I doubt it. It's not something I personally see as desirable, either. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:49, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

::::Have you heard the "Burial Song of Théoden" by Tolkien Ensemble? I think the visitors of this site should be entitled to hear this masterpiece (in my opinion). In any case...I will contact the Tolkien Ensemble myself. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::And yes...one more thing...What about this WM thing you were talking about? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::You would have to discuss this with other users (and admins) of this site first before initiating contact with them and seeking to put their songs this website. I personally don't think it would be appropriate for TG to host songs that people should be paying for. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:03, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::You did not answer my question! What about this WM thing I am accused!? I find myself insulted for, coinsidentally , wanting to expand this wiki as much as it is possible. And for your information, I am an editor on Wikipedia. And I am not talking about paying anything. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::No, but by having their songs on our website we are preventing them from earning money from them. I'm not convinced that that is right. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

==Pagination==
I have hi-res scans of ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]'' on my computer. And I have seen before that pagination can be a sort of a mess, when multiple versions of the same book collide together. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

:The pagination for ''The History of Middle-earth'' series is pretty much consistent (which is why we reference pages for those when we don't for ''The Lord of the Rings''). How long did it take you to scan them? What is the edition of your hardcopy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Sale of this book without a front cover may be unauthorized. If this book is coverless, it may have been reported to the publisher as “unsold or destroyed” and neither the author nor the publisher may have received payment for it.

A Del Rey® Book Published by The Ballantine Publishing Group

Copyright © 1983 by Frank Richard Williamson and Christopher Reuel Tolkien as Executors of the Estate of J. R. R. Tolkien

All rights reserved under International and Pan-American Copyright Conventions.

Published in the United States by The Ballantine Publishing Group, a division of Random House, Inc., New York.

Del Rey and colophon are registered trademarks of Random House, Inc.www.delreydigital.com

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 83-12782

ISBN 0-345-37521-1

First published in the United States by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Reprinted by special arrangement with Houghton Mifflin Company.

Manufactured in the United States of America

First Ballantine Books Edition: June 1992

OPM 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:55, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Ilinsor

2015-06-23T13:48:17Z

Maedhros95:

{{noncanon}}
{{valar infobox
| image=
| name=Ilinsor
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=Steersman of the [[Moon]]
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| notablefor=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Ilinsor''' was a [[Vala]] in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]''. He was a [[Sylph]], one of the servants of [[Manwë]] and [[Varda]] and later became a steersman of the [[Moon]].<ref>{{LT1|VIII}}</ref><ref>{{LT1|IX}}</ref>

{{references}}
{{legend}}
[[Category:Valar]]

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-23T13:38:33Z

Maedhros95:

Gilfanon

2015-06-23T13:31:59Z

Maedhros95: minor tweak

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Gilfanon
| pronun=
| othernames=Ailios (earlier name)
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
{{quote|Now there happened that night to be present a guest both at their board and at their tale telling, and his name was Gilfanon|[[The Book of Lost Tales Part One]]}}
'''Gilfanon''' was one of the oldest [[Elves]] on [[Tol Eressëa]]. It was he who told [[Eriol]] the tale of the [[Sun]] and the [[Moon]] in the [[Cottage of Lost Play]].<ref>{{HM|LT1}}</ref><ref>{{HM|LT2}}</ref>

Gilfanon lived in the [[House of the Hundred Chimneys]] in [[Tavrobel]].<ref>{{LT1|VIII}}, p. 175</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Elves]]
[[de:Gilfanon]]

Gilfanon

2015-06-23T13:31:35Z

Maedhros95: added infobox

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Gilfanon
| pronun=
| othernames=Ailios (earlier name)
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
{{quote|Now there happened that night to be present a guest both at their board and at their tale telling, and his name was '''Gilfanon'''|[[The Book of Lost Tales Part One]]}}
'''Gilfanon''' was one of the oldest [[Elves]] on [[Tol Eressëa]]. It was he who told [[Eriol]] the tale of the [[Sun]] and the [[Moon]] in the [[Cottage of Lost Play]].<ref>{{HM|LT1}}</ref><ref>{{HM|LT2}}</ref>

Gilfanon lived in the [[House of the Hundred Chimneys]] in [[Tavrobel]].<ref>{{LT1|VIII}}, p. 175</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Elves]]
[[de:Gilfanon]]

Fankil

2015-06-23T13:27:16Z

Maedhros95:

{{noncanon}}
{{evil infobox
| image=
| name=Fankil
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=[[Melko]]
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| race=Unknown
| gender=
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Fankil''', also known as '''Fangli''' and '''Fúkil''' in the earlier stages of the writing, was a servant of [[Melko]], and only appeared in the early outlines of the [[Gilfanon]]'s tale. He acted as the lieutenant of the Dark Lord, a role that would be taken by [[Sauron]] in the final version of ''[[The Silmarillion]]''.<ref>{{LT1|X}}, p. 237</ref>

Fankil is first mentioned in a note regarding the [[Awakening of the Elves]] as having escaped into the world with the other dark shapes when the [[Valar]] broke [[Utumno|Utumna]].<ref>{{LT1|IVn}}, p. 114</ref> He then came in order to live among the First [[Men]], presumably in [[Palisor]]. He, along with his [[Dwarves]]<ref group=note>Dwarves were originally among the evil creatures in the ''Book of Lost Tales''</ref> and [[goblins]] mingled among Men in order to estrange them from the [[Elves]] and some joined the evil [[Dwarves]]. This resulted to the [[Battle of Palisor]], the first war between Elves and goblins. In some earlier sketch, Fangli and his evil Dwarves, conquered Palisor. The Men corrupted by him became wild and savage peoples, worshiping Melko.

{{references|notes}}
[[Category:Servants of Melkor]]

Ilmarë

2015-06-23T13:08:15Z

Maedhros95:

{{maiar infobox
| image=[[Image:Natalia Nikitin - Ilmare.jpg|250px]]
| name=Ilmarë
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=One of the Chiefs of the [[Maiar]]<br/>Handmaiden of [[Varda]]
| location=
| affiliation=[[Varda]]
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Female
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Ilmarë''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈilmare]}}) was a [[Maiar|Maia]] and the handmaiden to [[Varda]]. She is only mentioned briefly in the ''[[Valaquenta]]'', where she is described as one of the chiefs of the Maiar.<ref>{{S|II}}</ref>

==Other Versions of the Legendarium==
In the early stages of the [[legendarium]], Ilmarë (then called '''Erinti''') was the daughter of [[Manwë]] and Varda, but the concept of the Valar having children was abandoned and Ilmarë became Varda's handmaiden. <ref>{{LT1|II}}, p. 58</ref>

==Etymology==
Her name may be related to one of the [[Quenya]] words for "Starlight".<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, entry [[GIL]]</ref> Christopher Tolkien has noted that ''Ilmarë'' is related to such words as ''[[Ilmen]]'' and ''[[Ilmarin]]''.<ref>{{S|Elements}}, entry ''ilm-''</ref>

{{References}}

{{Ainur}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Ilmare}}
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Maiar]]
[[Category:Quenya names]]
[[de:Ilmare]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/ainur/maiar/ilmare]]
[[fi:Ilmarë]]

Maidros (grandfather of Fëanor)

2015-06-23T13:05:02Z

Maedhros95: tiny, tiny tweak

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Maidros
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| heritage=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=[[Bruithwir]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Maidros''' was the father of [[Bruithwir]] and the grandfather of [[Fëanor]] in the early stages of the [[legendarium]].<ref>{{LT1|VI}}, p. 161</ref>
{{title}}
{{references}}
[[Category:Elves]]

Ranuin

2015-06-23T12:44:18Z

Maedhros95: tiny tweak

{{noncanon}}
{{other infobox
| image=
| name=Ranuin
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| parentage=[[Aluin]]
| siblings=[[Danuin]] & [[Fanuin]]
| spouse=
| children=
| race=[[Ainur|Ainu]]
| gender=
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Ranuin''' was an [[Ainur|Ainu]] representing a month.<ref>{{LT1|IX}}, p. 245</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Ainur]]

Evromord

2015-06-23T12:43:35Z

Maedhros95: Created page with "{{noncanon}} {{elves infobox | image= | name=Evromord | pronun= | othernames= | titles= | position=Door-ward | location=Tol Eressëa | affiliation= | language= | birth= | bir..."

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Evromord
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=Door-ward
| location=[[Tol Eressëa]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| heritage=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Evromord''' was an [[Elf]] of [[Tol Eressëa]] and a door-ward of the [[Cottage of Lost Play]]. He, apparently, was intended to replace [[Rúmil (elf of Tirion)|Rúmil]] in the later stages of the writing.<ref>{{LT1|IVn}}, p. 114</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Elves]]

Maedhros

2015-06-23T12:34:37Z

Maedhros95: added disambiguation

{{cleanup}}
{{disambig-two|the son of [[Fëanor]]|the grandfather of [[Fëanor]]|[[Maidros (grandfather of Fëanor)|Maidros]]}}
{{noldor infobox
| image=[[File:Jenny Dolfen - There will be blood.jpg|250px]]
| name=Maedhros
| pronun=
| othernames=''[[Nelyafinwë]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]]),<br/>''[[Maitimo]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Amilessë|mn]]),<br/> ''[[Russandol]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[epessë]]),<br/>"The Tall"
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Tirion]]; [[Himring]], [[March of Maedhros]]; [[Amon Ereb]]
| affiliation=[[Oath of Fëanor]], [[Union of Maedhros]]
| language=[[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]]
| birth=after {{YT|1190}}
| birthlocation=[[Tirion]]
| rule=
| death={{FA|587}}
| deathlocation=Into fiery chasm
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=[[House of Fëanor]]
| parentage=[[Fëanor]] & [[Nerdanel]]
| siblings=[[Maglor]], [[Celegorm]], [[Caranthir]], [[Curufin]], [[Amrod]] and [[Amras]]
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=Tall
| hair=Dark red
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=Sword
| steed=
}}'''Maedhros''' ([[Sindarin|S]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈmaɛðros]}}) was one of the princes of the [[Noldor]] and was eldest of the [[Sons of Fëanor]].

==History==
Maedhros was born during the Time of the [[Two Trees]] in [[Valinor]]. After the banishment of [[Fëanor]] from [[Tirion]] in Valinor he went with his father to [[Formenos]] in exile. When [[Morgoth]] killed Finwë and stole Fëanor's beloved [[Silmarils]], Maedhros was the first son to take the terrible [[Oath of Fëanor]] to recover the jewels.

Maedhros went with his father to [[Alqualondë]], where the [[First Kinslaying]] broke out, in which he took part. When Fëanor sailed off without the host of [[Fingolfin]], Maedhros thought that he was planning to return and carry across the others. He expected that the first ship would carry [[Fingon]], his best friend. When he learned that in fact, Fëanor planned to abandon them, he was angry and, alone of his brothers, refused to help burn the ships, to prevent Fingolfin from following.

[[File:Ted Nasmith - Maedhros’s Rescue from Thangorodrim.jpg|thumb|left|[[Ted Nasmith]] - Maedhros’s Rescue from Thangorodrim]]
When Fëanor was killed in the [[Dagor-nuin-Giliath]], Maedhros became the [[High King of the Noldor]]. However, this position was held briefly, as [[Morgoth]] sent an embassy, feigning the surrender of a Silmaril. The Oath driving him, Maedhros also feigned to treat with Morgoth, but instead he was captured by Morgoth's embassy and hung by the wrist of his right hand upon the face of a precipice of [[Thangorodrim]], for about thirty years. In a daring rescue, his cousin [[Fingon]], helped by [[Thorondor]] the King of Eagles, saved him from torment, but he had to cut off Maedhros's hand to release him from the shackle. In gratitude for this, and in atonement for Fëanor's desertion of Fingon's house, Maedhros relinquished all claim as the heir of Finwë and made his uncle [[Fingolfin]], Fingon's father, High King of the Noldor, something his brothers did not like.

Seeing that his brothers were likely to cause feuds with their kinsmen, Maedhros moved them out of [[Hithlum]], and later ruled the lands around the [[Hill of Himring]], which became known as the [[March of Maedhros]]. Allied with Fingolfin, he won the battle of [[Dagor Aglareb]], and, thanks to his daring deeds during the [[Dagor Bragollach]], [[Himring]] stood while many other elven realms fell.

Hearing word of the deeds of [[Beren]] and [[Lúthien]], he took hope and gathered his brothers and united with other Elven Houses to create the [[Union of Maedhros]], an alliance to lay siege to Morgoth's fortress of [[Angband]]. However, no support came from [[Thingol]] or [[Nargothrond]], due to the deeds of [[Celegorm]] and [[Curufin]], Maedhros' brothers. The Union and the siege was utterly broken after the defeat in the [[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]. Himring was garrisoned by [[Orcs]]. Maedhros and his brothers lived in [[Ossiriand]], consorting with the [[Laiquendi]].

Maedhros learned that [[Dior]], son of Beren and Lúthien, had inherited the Silmaril that they had recovered from Morgoth. Still driven by the Oath, he allowed his brother [[Celegorm]] to convince him to attack Doriath. Celegorm, [[Caranthir]], and [[Curufin]] were slain by [[Dior|Dior Eluchíl]], the King of Doriath, who was in turn slain by them. Dior's sons, [[Eluréd]] and [[Elurín]], were captured and abandoned by Celegorm's servants in the forest, leading Maedhros to search for the innocent youths, but to no avail. After learning that [[Elwing]], Dior's daughter, had survived, he and his surviving brothers descended with an army upon the remnants of the people of Doriath living in the [[Havens of Sirion]]. The Noldorin princes killed many Elves and captured Elwing's sons [[Elrond]] and [[Elros]] in the sack, but Elwing escaped with the Silmaril, jumping off a cliff.

[[File:Ted Nasmith - Maedhros Casts Himself into a Chasm.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Maedhros Casts Himself into a Chasm'']]
After the [[War of Wrath]], he and his last surviving brother, [[Maglor]] stole the two remaining Silmarils taken by the [[Valar]] from Morgoth. But because of the evil deeds committed by the brothers to regain the jewels, they burned in Maglor's and Maedhros's hands. Unable to bear the suffering, Maedhros cast himself and the Silmaril he carried into a fiery chasm in the Earth. He is the only known [[Elf]] to have committed suicide. It is uncertain whether he was eventually released from [[Mandos]], or whether he still remains there with his father.

== Etymology ==
Maedhros' [[father-name]] was '''[[Nelyafinwë]]''', meaning "Finwë the Third", shorter form '''Nelyo''', as his grandfather and father both shared the name ''Finwë''. ''[[Nelya]]'' is a [[Quenya]] adjective that means "third". His [[Amilessë|mother-name]] was '''[[Maitimo]]''', "Well-shaped One", for he was noted for his comeliness. His [[epessë]] was '''[[Russandol]]''', "Copper-top", referring to the dark red hair he inherited from his grandfather [[Mahtan]]. It is derived from ''[[russa]]'', a Quenya adjective meaning "red-haired".

In ''[[The Shibboleth of Fëanor]]'', note# 65, it is said that the names Maitimo and Russandol are the base for the [[Sindarization|Sindarized]] name Maedhros (derived from a contraction of ''Mait-'' + ''Rus-'').

In the earlier work ''[[The Etymologies]]'', the name Maedhros is original [[Noldorin]], and is said to mean "Pale-glitter". It is formed by the adding up ''[[maidh]]'' ("pale", "fallow" or "fawn") and "archaic" ''[[rhoss]]'' ("flash", "glitter of metal").

== Genealogy ==
Names shown in ''italics'' are females.
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| MHT | | MIR |y| FIN |y| IND | | | | | | | | | | | | |MHT=[[Mahtan]]| MIR=''[[Míriel]]''|FIN=[[Finwë]]|IND=''[[Indis]]''}}
{{familytree| |!| | | | | |!| | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |}}
{{familytree| NRD |~|y|~| FEA | | FDS | | FNG | | IRM | | FRF | | |NRD=''[[Nerdanel]]''|FEA=[[Fëanor]]|FDS=''[[Findis]]''|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]|IRM=''[[Írimë]]''|FRF=[[Finarfin]]}}
{{familytree| |,|-|-|^|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| MDH | | MAG | | CEL | | CAR | | CUR | | AMD | | AMR |MDH='''MAEDHROS'''|MAG=[[Maglor]]|CEL=[[Celegorm]]|CAR=[[Caranthir]]|CUR=[[Curufin]]|AMD=[[Amrod]]|AMR=[[Amras]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CLB | | | | | | | | |CLB=[[Celebrimbor]]}}
{{familytree/end}}
== See also ==
* [[:Category:Images of Maedhros|Images of Maedhros]]
{{references}}
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Flight of the Noldor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Return of the Noldor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Beleriand and its Realms]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Noldor in Beleriand]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Ruin of Doriath]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath]]
* ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part One]]'', [[Gilfanon's Tale: The Travail of the Noldoli and the Coming of Mankind]]
* ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part Two]]'', [[The Nauglafring]]
* ''[[The Shaping of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Earliest Annals of Valinor]]
* ''[[The Shaping of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Earliest Annals of Beleriand]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[The later Annals of Beleriand]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[The later Annals of Valinor]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[Quenta Silmarillion]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[The Etymologies]]
* ''[[Morgoth's Ring]]'', [[The Annals of Aman]]
* ''[[Morgoth's Ring]]'', [[The Later Quenta Silmarillion]]
* ''[[The War of the Jewels]]'', [[The Grey Annals]]
* ''[[The War of the Jewels]]'', [[The Later Quenta Silmarillion]]
* ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Shibboleth of Feanor]]

[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Sons of Fëanor]]
[[Category:Sindarin names]]
[[Category:First Age characters]]
[[de:Maedhros]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/noldor/maedhros]]
[[fi:Maedhros]]

Bruithwir

2015-06-23T12:32:22Z

Maedhros95: minor tweak

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Bruithwir
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Valinor]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=[[Sirnúmen]]
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| heritage=
| parentage=[[Maidros (grandfather of Fëanor)|Maidros]]
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=[[Fëanor]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Bruithwir''' was the father of [[Fëanor]] in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part One|The Book of Lost Tales]]''.<ref name="LT1">{{LT1|VI}}, p. 145</ref> [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] toyed with the idea of him being Fëanor's brother or his son, but chose to make him his father.<ref name="LT2">{{LT1|VI}}, p. 155</ref> Fëanor's father in the later versions of the [[legendarium]], [[Finwë]], was already in existence but was unrelated to Fëanor.<ref name="LT3">{{LT1|V}}, p. 132</ref>

==History==
On the last day of the feast of Double Mirth, [[Morgoth|Melko]] went to [[Sirnúmen]], where many of the [[Noldor|Gnomes]] lived at that time, and killed those guarding the treasures. He killed Bruithwir and seized the [[Silmarils]].<ref name="LT1"/>

His tomb was known as the [[Mound of the First Sorrow]], which was so named because of all the sorrow that Bruithwir's death was to achieve.<ref name="LT4">{{LT1|VI}}, p. 149-50</ref>

{{references}}

[[Category:Noldor]]

Maidros (grandfather of Fëanor)

2015-06-23T12:31:38Z

Maedhros95: Created page with "{{noncanon}} {{elves infobox | image= | name=Maidros | pronun= | othernames= | titles= | position= | location= | affiliation= | language= | birth= | birthlocation= | rule= | dea..."

Ranuin

2015-06-23T12:20:06Z

Maedhros95: Created page with "{{noncanon}} {{other infobox | image= | name=Ranuin | pronun= | othernames= | titles= | position= | location= | affiliation= | language= | birth= | birthlocation= | rule= | death..."

{{noncanon}}
{{other infobox
| image=
| name=Ranuin
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| parentage=[[Aluin]]
| siblings=[[Danuin]] & [[Fanuin]]
| spouse=
| children=
| race=[[Ainur|Ainu]]
| gender=
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Ranuin''' was an [[Ainur|Ainu]] representing the month.<ref>{{LT1|IX}}, p. 245</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Ainur]]

Danuin

2015-06-23T12:17:48Z

Maedhros95: minor tweak

{{noncanon}}
{{other infobox
| image=
| name=Danuin
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| parentage=[[Aluin]]
| siblings=[[Fanuin]] & [[Ranuin]]
| spouse=
| children=
| race=[[Ainur|Ainu]]
| gender=
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Danuin''' was an [[Ainur|Ainu]] representing a day.<ref>{{LT1|IX}}, p. 247</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Ainur]]

Fanuin

2015-06-23T12:17:15Z

Maedhros95: Created page with "{{noncanon}} {{other infobox | image= | name=Fanuin | pronun= | othernames= | titles= | position= | location= | affiliation= | language= | birth= | birthlocation= | rule= | death..."

{{noncanon}}
{{other infobox
| image=
| name=Fanuin
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| parentage=[[Aluin]]
| siblings=[[Danuin]] & [[Ranuin]]
| spouse=
| children=
| race=[[Ainur|Ainu]]
| gender=
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Fanuin''' was an [[Ainur|Ainu]] representing a year.<ref>{{LT1|IX}}, p. 245</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Ainur]]

Ellu

2015-06-23T10:36:06Z

Maedhros95: Created page with "{{noncanon}} {{elves infobox | image= | name=Ellu | pronun= | othernames=''Melemno'' | titles= | position= | location=Alqaluntë | affiliation= | language= | bir..."

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Ellu
| pronun=
| othernames=''Melemno''
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Alqualondë|Alqaluntë]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| race=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Ellu Melemno''' was the name of an [[Elf]] who, after the loss of [[Thingol|Tinwelint]], was chosen as the leader of the [[Solosimpi]].<ref>{{LT1|V}}, p. 129</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Elves]]

Aluin

2015-06-23T10:22:15Z

Maedhros95: tweak

{{noncanon}}
{{other infobox
| image=
| name=Aluin
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=[[Danuin]], [[Fanuin]] & [[Ranuin]]
| race=[[Ainur|Ainu]]
| gender=
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Aluin''' was the eldest of the [[Ainur]]. He represented the time itself.<ref>{{LT1|IX}}, p. 247</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Ainur]]

Danuin

2015-06-23T10:20:39Z

Maedhros95: Created page with "{{noncanon}} {{other infobox | image= | name=Danuin | pronun= | othernames= | titles= | position= | location= | affiliation= | language= | birth= | birthlocation= | rule= | death..."

{{noncanon}}
{{other infobox
| image=
| name=Danuin
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| parentage=[[Aluin]]
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| race=[[Ainur|Ainu]]
| gender=
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Danuin''' was an [[Ainur|Ainu]] representing a day.<ref>{{LT1|IX}}, p. 247</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Ainur]]

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-23T10:12:12Z

Maedhros95:

Aluin

2015-06-23T10:06:44Z

Maedhros95: Created page with "{{noncanon}} {{other infobox | image= | name=Aluin | pronun= | othernames= | titles= | position= | location= | affiliation= | language= | birth= | birthlocation= | rule= | death=..."

{{noncanon}}
{{other infobox
| image=
| name=Aluin
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| race=[[Ainur|Ainu]]
| gender=
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Aluin''' was the eldest of the [[Ainur]]. He represented the time itself.<ref>{{LT1|IX}}, p. 247</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Ainur]]

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-23T09:57:24Z

Maedhros95: paranoia

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-23T09:56:02Z

Maedhros95:

Lindo

2015-06-23T09:43:47Z

Maedhros95: changed category

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Lindo
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=[[Valwë]]
| siblings=
| spouse=[[Vairë (wife of Lindo)|Vairë]]
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Lindo''' was the wise keeper of the [[Cottage of Lost Play]] in [[Tol Eressëa]]. His wife was [[Vairë (wife of Lindo)|Vairë]], and his father was [[Valwë]].<ref>{{HM|LT1}}</ref><ref>{{HM|LT2}}</ref>

==Etymolgy==
''Lindo'' is a [[Qenya]] name, probably meaning "Singer". The [[Gnomish]] version of the name was '''''Glinda''''' (probably related to ''glin'' "sound, voice, utterance").<ref>{{PE|15}}, pp. 6, 7, 9</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Elves]]
[[Category:Qenya names]]
[[de:Lindo]]

Valwë

2015-06-23T09:42:05Z

Maedhros95: just a minor tweak

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Valwë
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=[[Lindo]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Valwë''' was the father of [[Lindo]], the keeper of the [[Cottage of Lost Play]] on [[Tol Eressëa]].<ref>{{HM|LT1}}</ref><ref>{{HM|LT2}}</ref>

==Etymology==
''Valwë'' is a [[Qenya]] name. The [[Gnomish]] version of the name was ''Gwalweg''. [[Patrick H. Wynne]] has suggested that both appear to mean "the happy (or fortunate) one".<ref>{{PE|15}}, pp. 7, 10</ref>

{{references}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Valwe}}
[[Category:Elves]]
[[Category:Qenya names]]

Fangluin

2015-06-23T09:40:04Z

Maedhros95: noncanon

{{noncanon}}
{{stub}}
{{dwarves infobox
| image=
| name=Fangluin
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Nogrod]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=[[First Age]]
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Fangluin''' was a elderly [[Dwarves|dwarf]] who counseled against returning a loan made by [[Thingol]].<ref>{{LT2|IV}}</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Dwarves]]

Naugladur

2015-06-23T09:39:37Z

Maedhros95: noncanon

{{noncanon}}
{{sources}}
{{dwarves infobox
| image=
| name=Naugladur
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=King of Nogrod<ref>{{LT2|IV}}, p. 225</ref>
| position=
| location=[[Nogrod]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=[[First Age]]
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death={{FA|503}}
| deathlocation=[[Battle of Sarn Athrad]]
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=Hammer, sword<ref>{{LT2|IV}}, p. 238</ref>
| steed=
}}
'''Naugladur''' was the king of the [[Dwarves of Nogrod]] in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales (disambiguation)|The Book of Lost Tales]]''.

==History==
He led the [[Battle of the Thousand Caves|attack]] against [[Menegroth]] to capture the [[Nauglamír]]. Later he fought with [[Beren]] in the [[Battle of Sarn Athrad]] and would have slain him, but stumbled and Beren slew him to reclaim the Nauglamír. With his dying words he cursed the treasure that he was bringing back to Nogrod, which Beren dumped in the river.<ref>{{LT2|IV}}</ref>
==Etymology==

The name ''Naugladur'' was never explained by [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]], but it is likely a [[Gnomish|Goldogrin]] name meaning "King [of the] Dwarves".<ref>{{webcite|author=[[John D. Rateliff]], [[Patrick H. Wynne]], [[Jason Fisher]], Andrew Higgins (mailing list discussion)|articleurl=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/message/24132|articlename=naugladur (#24132; first message)|dated=21 February 2013|website=[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/ MythSoc mailing list]|accessed=24 February 2013}}</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:Gnomish names]]

Naimi

2015-06-23T09:36:59Z

Maedhros95: adjusted

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Naimi
| pronun=
| othernames=Éadgifu
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Tol Eressëa]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| sailedwest=
| sailedfrom=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| heritage=
| parentage=Unknown; niece of [[Vairë (wife of Lindo)|Vairë]]
| siblings=
| spouse=[[Eriol]]
| children=[[Heorrenda]]
| gender=Female
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Naimi''', also called '''Éadgifu''' in [[Old English]], was an [[Elf]] of [[Tol Eressëa]]. She was a niece of [[Vairë (wife of Lindo)|Vairë]], the wife of [[Lindo]]. She was also the wife of [[Eriol]] and the mother to [[Heorrenda]].<ref>{{LT2|VI}}, p. 295</ref>

==Other Versions of the Legendarium==
In another version a woman named '''Éadgifu''' was the wife of a man named [[Déor (father of Ælfwine)|Déor]] and the mother of [[Ælfwine]].<ref>{{LT2|VIb}}, p. 320</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Elves]]

Lindo

2015-06-23T09:35:29Z

Maedhros95:

Lindo

2015-06-23T09:34:36Z

Maedhros95: added infobox, noncanon, fixed mess

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Lindo
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=[[Valwë]]
| siblings=
| spouse=[[Vairë (wife of Lindo)|Vairë)
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Lindo''' was the wise keeper of the [[Cottage of Lost Play]] in [[Tol Eressëa]]. His wife was [[Vairë (wife of Lindo)|Vairë]], and his father was [[Valwë]].<ref>{{HM|LT1}}</ref><ref>{{HM|LT2}}</ref>

==Etymolgy==
''Lindo'' is a [[Qenya]] name, probably meaning "Singer". The [[Gnomish]] version of the name was '''''Glinda''''' (probably related to ''glin'' "sound, voice, utterance").<ref>{{PE|15}}, pp. 6, 7, 9</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[Category:Qenya names]]
[[de:Lindo]]

Tulkastor

2015-06-23T09:31:44Z

Maedhros95: tweak

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Tulkastor
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=[[Vairë (wife of Lindo)|Vairë]]</br>Unnamed child (parent of [[Naimi]])<ref>{{LT2|VI}}, p. 295</ref>
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Tulkastor''' was the father of [[Vairë]], an [[Elf]] of [[Tol Eressëa]], and the wife of [[Lindo]], the keeper of the [[Cottage of Lost Play]].<ref>{{LT1|I}}, p. 5</ref>

==Other Versions of the Legendarium==
Originally the name of the character was '''Turenbor''', later changed to '''Tulkassë''' and finally to Tulkastor.<ref>{{LT1|In}}, p. 11</ref>

{{references}}

[[Category:Elves]]

Vairë (wife of Lindo)

2015-06-23T09:30:39Z

Maedhros95: disambig

{{disambig-two|the wife of [[Lindo]]|the Valië|[[Vairë]]}}
{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Vairë
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=[[Tulkastor]]
| siblings=Unnamed sibling (parent of [[Naimi]])<ref name="Naimi"/>
| spouse=[[Lindo]]
| children=
| gender=Female
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Vairë''' was the daughter of [[Tulkastor]] and the wife of [[Lindo]], the keeper of the [[Cottage of Lost Play]].<ref>{{LT1|I}}, p. 3</ref> Her niece [[Naimi]] married a [[Men|man]] named [[Eriol|Ottor]] named by the [[Elves]] Eriol.<ref name="Naimi">{{LT2|VI}}, p. 295</ref>

{{title}}
{{references}}
[[Category:Elves]]

Vairë

2015-06-23T09:29:27Z

Maedhros95: disambig

{{disambig-two|the Valië|the wife of [[Lindo]]|[[Vairë (wife of Lindo)|Vairë]]}}
{{valar infobox
| image=[[File:Alice Falto - Vaire.jpg|250px]]
| name=Vairë
| pronun=
| othernames=Gwîr
| titles=
| position=Weaver of Time
| location=[[Halls of Mandos]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| notablefor=
| siblings=
| spouse=[[Mandos|Námo]]
| gender=Female
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Vairë the Weaver''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈvaɪre]}}) was a [[Valar|Valië]] and the wife of [[Mandos]].

The [[Valie]] was responsible for weaving the story of the World, with which the [[Halls of Mandos]] are clothed, and ever widen.<ref>{{S|IIb}}</ref>

After the death of [[Finwë]], [[Míriel]] returned to life and entered the service of Vairë, recording all the deeds of the [[House of Finwë]].<ref>{{MR|P3II2}}, p. 207</ref>
==Etymology==
The [[Quenya]] name ''Vairë'' means "Weaver",<ref>{{S|Index}}</ref> or "Ever-weaving", derived from the [[Sundocarme|root]] [[WIR]].<ref>{{VT|39a}}, pp. 10, 14 (form: ''Vaire'')</ref>

In the ''[[The Etymologies|Etymologies]]'', Quenya ''Vaire'' ("Weaver") is a descendant form of [[Primitive Quendian]] ''weirē'', deriving from [[Sundocarme|root]] [[WEY]] ("wind, weave").<ref name=LR/>

Her [[Noldorin]] name is said to be '''''Gwîr''''' ("Weaver").<ref name=LR>{{LR|Etymologies}}, p. 398</ref> An early, [[Gnomish]] version of her name was ''Gwairil''.<ref>{{PE|15}}, pp. 6, 7, 9</ref>

{{references}}
{{ainur}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Vaire}}
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Quenya names]]
[[Category:Valar]]

[[de:Vaire (Valie)]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/ainur/valar/vaire]]
[[fi:Vairë]]

Vairë

2015-06-23T09:25:54Z

Maedhros95: deleted all references to Vairë of the Book of Lost Tales (they have ABSOLUTELY no connection to each other)

{{valar infobox
| image=[[File:Alice Falto - Vaire.jpg|250px]]
| name=Vairë
| pronun=
| othernames=Gwîr
| titles=
| position=Weaver of Time
| location=[[Halls of Mandos]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| notablefor=
| siblings=
| spouse=[[Mandos|Námo]]
| gender=Female
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Vairë the Weaver''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈvaɪre]}}) was a [[Valar|Valië]] and the wife of [[Mandos]].

The [[Valie]] was responsible for weaving the story of the World, with which the [[Halls of Mandos]] are clothed, and ever widen.<ref>{{S|IIb}}</ref>

After the death of [[Finwë]], [[Míriel]] returned to life and entered the service of Vairë, recording all the deeds of the [[House of Finwë]].<ref>{{MR|P3II2}}, p. 207</ref>
==Etymology==
The [[Quenya]] name ''Vairë'' means "Weaver",<ref>{{S|Index}}</ref> or "Ever-weaving", derived from the [[Sundocarme|root]] [[WIR]].<ref>{{VT|39a}}, pp. 10, 14 (form: ''Vaire'')</ref>

In the ''[[The Etymologies|Etymologies]]'', Quenya ''Vaire'' ("Weaver") is a descendant form of [[Primitive Quendian]] ''weirē'', deriving from [[Sundocarme|root]] [[WEY]] ("wind, weave").<ref name=LR/>

Her [[Noldorin]] name is said to be '''''Gwîr''''' ("Weaver").<ref name=LR>{{LR|Etymologies}}, p. 398</ref> An early, [[Gnomish]] version of her name was ''Gwairil''.<ref>{{PE|15}}, pp. 6, 7, 9</ref>

{{references}}
{{ainur}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Vaire}}
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Quenya names]]
[[Category:Valar]]

[[de:Vaire (Valie)]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/ainur/valar/vaire]]
[[fi:Vairë]]

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-23T09:23:30Z

Maedhros95:

Vairë (wife of Lindo)

2015-06-23T09:20:17Z

Maedhros95: Created page with "{{noncanon}} {{elves infobox | image= | name=Vairë | pronun= | othernames= | titles= | position= | location= | affiliation= | language= | birth= | birthlocation= | rule= | deat..."

{{noncanon}}
{{elves infobox
| image=
| name=Vairë
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=[[Tulkastor]]
| siblings=Unnamed sibling (parent of [[Naimi]])<ref name="Naimi"/>
| spouse=[[Lindo]]
| children=
| gender=Female
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Vairë''' was the daughter of [[Tulkastor]] and the wife of [[Lindo]], the keeper of the [[Cottage of Lost Play]].<ref>{{LT1|I}}, p. 3</ref> Her niece [[Naimi]] married a [[Men|man]] named [[Eriol|Ottor]] named by the [[Elves]] Eriol.<ref name="Naimi">{{LT2|VI}}, p. 295</ref>

{{title}}
{{references}}
[[Category:Elves]]

Elulindo

2015-06-23T09:05:42Z

Maedhros95: fixed mess

{{noncanon}}
{{teleri infobox
| image=
| name=Elulindo
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Alqualondë]]
| affiliation=
| language=[[Telerin]]
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=[[Olwë]] (at that point named Elwë)
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Elulindo''' was a son of Elwë, Lord of the [[Teleri]], in a genealogical table created by [[Tolkien]] probably in the early 1930s. The table has not been published but [[Christopher Tolkien]] mentioned the name in his comments on the genealogies of "The Quenta" period in the Appendix of ''The Lost Road''.<ref>{{LR|A1}}.</ref>

In the later versions of the [[Silmarillion]] the name of the father of Elulindo was changed from Elwë to [[Olwë]]. Olwë is told to have had many sons but none of them is known by name, nor their deeds have been recorded.<ref>{{S|5}}.</ref>

==Etymology==
The name is composed of [[Elu]] and [[lindo]] 'singer', probably conceived as [[Telerin]] words at the time.

{{references}}

[[Category:House of Olwë]]
[[Category:Falmari]]
[[Category:Telerin names]]
[[fi:Elulindo]]

Olwë

2015-06-23T08:54:56Z

Maedhros95: deleted unnappropriate Elulindo

{{teleri infobox
| image=[[File:Karolina Węgrzyn - OlweBeleriand.jpg|250px|Olwë in Beleriand]]
| name=Olwë
| pronun=
| othernames=''Olue'' ([[Telerin|T]])</br>Volwë
| titles=King of the [[Teleri]]
| position=
| location=[[Alqualondë]]
| affiliation=
| language=[[Telerin]]
| birth=between {{YT|1050}} and {{YT|1102|n}}
| birthlocation=[[Cuiviénen]]
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=House of Olwë
| parentage=Unknown
| siblings=[[Thingol|Elwë]], possibly [[Elmo]]<ref name="Galadriel">{{UT|Galadriel}}</ref>
| spouse=
| children=[[Eärwen]], unnamed sons<ref name="Sons">{{S|Princes}}</ref>
| gender=Male
| hair=White<ref name="Coming">{{MR|P3I3}}, p. 163</ref>
| eyes=Blue<ref name="Coming">{{MR|P3I3}}, p. 163</ref>
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Olwë''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈolwe]}}) was the King of the [[Teleri]] in [[Aman]], also known as the [[Falmari]]. He was the younger brother of [[Thingol|Elwë]], King of the [[Sindar]]. He may have had a second brother, [[Elmo]].<ref name="Galadriel">{{UT|Galadriel}}</ref>

==History==
Elwë and Olwë were both lords of the third clan of the Elves, known later as the Teleri,<ref>{{S|Captivity}}</ref> and together they lead their people from [[Cuiviénen]] to the [[Aman|West]]:

{{quote|Two lords they had, for their numbers were very great: Elwë [[Singollo]], which signifies [[Greymantle]], and Olwë his brother. The hair of Olwë was long and white, and his eyes were blue; but the hair of Elwë was grey as silver, and his eyes were as stars; he was the tallest of all the Elven-folk.|"[[Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor]]"<ref name="Coming">{{MR|P3I3}}, p. 163</ref>}}

However, during a long wait in [[Beleriand]] Elwë disappeared.<ref>{{S|Thingol}}</ref> After years of searching, Olwë grew impatient, and led the greater part of the Teleri to [[Valinor]], on the insistence of the [[Valar|Vala]] [[Ulmo]].

Olwë became Lord of the island of [[Tol Eressëa]], where the Teleri built a great number of cities, and grew in number. When they finally came to [[Eldamar]] some centuries later, Olwë became the king of [[Alqualondë]]. His daughter [[Eärwen]] married [[Finarfin]] son of [[Finwë]] and later King of the [[Noldor]] in [[Valinor]]. Besides Eärwen, Olwë had several sons.<ref name="Sons">{{S|Princes}}</ref>

When [[Fëanor]] revolted against the Valar he attempted to persuade the Teleri to join him in order to obtain their ships. They were unmoved, wanting no other realm than Eldamar and no other lord than Olwë. Fëanor reproached Olwë and his people as "fainthearted loiterers" and reminded them that the Noldor had aided them when they finally arrived. Olwë rebuked Fëanor's folly and refused to give him any ships of the Teleri, which they valued as the Noldor did their gems. Fëanor withdrew but then led his forces to Alqualondë to take the ships by force. As the Noldor rowed the stolen vessels northward, Olwë called for [[Ossë]] to stop them but it was not permitted by the Valar.<ref>{{S|Flight}}</ref>

==Other names==
In one manuscript, the [[Telerin]] form of ''Olwë'' is said to be '''''Olue'''''.<ref name=Quendi>{{WJ|Quendi}} p. 369</ref>In another manuscript the Telerin form is similar to the Quenya form: ''Olwë''.<ref name=Shibboleth>{{PM|Shibboleth}} p. 357</ref>

The Falmari called him sometimes '''''Volwë'''''.<ref name=Shibboleth/>

== Genealogy ==
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| | | | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |}}
{{familytree| MEL |y| ELW | | OLW | | ELM | | |MEL=[[Melian]]|ELW=[[Thingol|Elwë]]|OLW='''OLWË'''|ELM=[[Elmo]] }}
{{familytree| | | |!| | | |,|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| | | LUT | | EAR |y| FIN | | SON |LUT=[[Lúthien]]|EAR=[[Eärwen]]|FIN=[[Finarfin]]|SON=''sons''}}
{{familytree| |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |}}
{{familytree| FIN | | ANG | | AEG | | GAL | | |FIN=[[Finrod]]|ANG=[[Angrod]]|AEG=[[Aegnor]]|GAL=[[Galadriel]] }}
{{familytree/end}}

{{references}}
{{seq-start}}
{{seq-head
|race=teleri
|house=House of Olwë
|born=during the [[Years of the Trees]]
|died=
}}
{{seq
|pvac=None
|prev=Position created
|nvac=None
|next=Incumbent
|list=King of the [[Falmari]]
|dates=[[Years of the Trees]] -
}}
{{seq-end}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Olwe}}
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Falmari]]
[[Category:House of Olwë| ]]
[[Category:Quenya names]]
[[Category:Rulers]]
[[de:Olwe]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/teleri/falmari/olwe]]
[[fi:Olwë]]
[[fa:اولوه]]

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-23T08:07:23Z

Maedhros95:

Baran

2015-06-22T17:06:34Z

Maedhros95: Bëor the Young

{{disambig-two|Baran, a Man of the [[House of Bëor]]|[[Sindarin]] word|[[baran (Sindarin)]]}}
{{Edain infobox
| image=
| name=Baran
| pronun=
| othernames=Bëor the Young<ref>{{WJ|14}}, p. 230</ref>
| titles=2nd Head of the [[House of Bëor]]
| position=
| location=[[Estolad]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth={{FA|289}}
| birthlocation=East of the [[Blue Mountains]]
| rule=
| death={{FA|380}}
| deathlocation=
| age=91
| notablefor=
| house=[[House of Bëor]]
| parentage=[[Bëor]]
| siblings=[[Belen]]
| spouse=
| children=[[Boron]] and [[Baranor (son of Baran)|Baranor]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Baran''' ({{FA|289}} - {{FA|380|n}}, age 91) was the second head of the [[House of Bëor]].
__NOTOC__
== History ==
Baran was the oldest son of [[Bëor|Bëor the Old]] and brother to [[Belen]].<ref name="WJBeor"/> He took over leadership of the [[House of Bëor]] in [[Estolad]] when his father left to serve as vassal to [[Finrod|Finrod Felagund]].<ref>{{S|West}}</ref>

During his rule the [[Haladin]], the [[House of Hador|people of Marach]], and the [[Easterlings]] crossed over the [[Blue Mountains]] into [[Beleriand]].<ref>{{S|Fingolfin}}</ref>

== Genealogy ==
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree | | | | | | BEO | | | |BEO=[[Bëor|Bëor the Old]]}}
{{familytree | | | |,|-|-|^|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree | | | BAR | | | | BLN |BAR='''BARAN'''|BLN=[[Belen]]}}
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |!| |}}
{{familytree | BRN | | BRR | | BLD |BRN=[[Boron]]|BRR=[[Baranor (son of Baran)|Baranor]]|BLD=[[Beldir]]}}
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |!| |}}
{{familytree | BOR | | BRG | | BLM |BOR=[[Boromir (Lord of Ladros)|Boromir]]|BRG=[[Bereg]]|BLM=[[Belemir]]}}
{{familytree/end}}

==Other Versions of the Legendarium==
In the introduction to ''[[The Grey Annals]]'', [[Christopher Tolkien]] stated that they were written in the 1930s.<ref>{{WJ|P1}}, p, 3</ref> This work was laid aside while [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] wrote ''The Lord of the Rings'', after which he returned to his work on the elder days. In his later writings Tolkien relocated the coming of the [[Edain]] over the [[Blue Mountains]] nearly a century earlier, which occasioned a large-scale overhaul of the chronology and genealogies.<ref>{{WJ|14}}, ''The new genealogies of the Edain''</ref>

In the older ''Grey Annals'' Bëor was followed by his sons [[Bregolas]] and [[Barahir]]. In the new version four generations (''Baran'', Boron, Boromir, and Bregor) were inserted after Bëor, with Bregor the father of Bregolas and Barahir.<ref name="WJBeor">{{WJ|14}}, ''(i) The House of Bëor''</ref>

{{references}}

{{seq-start}}
{{seq-head
| race=edain
| house=[[House of Bëor]]
| born={{FA|289}}
| died={{FA|380}}
}}
{{seq
| prev=[[Bëor]]
| list=2nd Head of the [[House of Bëor]]
| dates={{FA|311}} - {{FA|380|n}}
| next=[[Boron]]
}}
{{seq-end}}
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:House of Bëor]]
[[de:Baran]]
[[fi:Baran]]

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-22T10:01:50Z

Maedhros95:

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-22T09:33:44Z

Maedhros95: fun fact

Poldor

2015-06-22T09:28:52Z

Maedhros95: Created page with "{{noncanon}} {{numenorean infobox | image= | name=Poldor | pronun= | othernames= | titles= | position= | location=Númenor | affiliation= | language= | birth= | birthlocation..."

{{noncanon}}
{{numenorean infobox
| image=
| name=Poldor
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Númenor]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Poldor''' was a [[Men|man]] of [[Númenor]]. Nothing else is known about him.<ref>{{LR|P1III2}}, Notes, p. 77</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Númenóreans]]

Orontor

2015-06-22T09:23:43Z

Maedhros95: Created page with "{{noncanon}} {{numenorean infobox | image= | name=Orontor | pronun= | othernames= | titles= | position= | location=Númenor | affiliation= | language= | birth= | birthlocatio..."

{{noncanon}}
{{numenorean infobox
| image=
| name=Orontor
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Númenor]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=[[Fíriel (woman of Númenor)|Fíriel]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Orontor''' was the father of [[Fíriel (woman of Númenor)|Fíriel]]. He was a good friend with [[Elendil]], but at some point he left [[Númenor]] and was never seen again.<ref>{{LR|P1III2}}, p. 69</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Númenóreans]]

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-22T09:13:52Z

Maedhros95:

{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014}}
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''⇒ Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table>

== Hans-Ulrich Möhring ==

Hey Mith! I saw, that you deleted the article about the German translator Hans-Ulrich Möhring (''The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún'') with the comment ''"Just not notable enough"''. Möhring was now responsible for the German translation of another posthum released work. ''The Fall of Arthur'' will be published under the title ''König Arthurs Untergang'' on 21 March, 2015 in Germany, translated by Hans-Ulrich Möhring. I think, that two translations of complex lyrics by J.R.R. Tolkien are enough to legitimate the existence of an article about him. What do you think? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

:For me, no (although others might take a different view). We have a painful habit on TG of creating articles about individuals which are essentially one line: "X is a Y who worked on Z." Is there anything (verifiable) to say about Möhring as translator of ''Sigurd and Gudrún'' and ''The Fall of Arthur'' beyond the fact that he translated them? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:14, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

::I see what you mean. To write something about his translation work on ''The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún'' (in my opinion) would make no sense in an English Wiki, so the only mentionable point would be the fact, that Möhring corresponded with Tom Shippey while translating. If you think, that the article is of no importance for Tolkien Gateway, then it's ok. I just wanted to know the reasons. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

:::If he'd corresponded with Tolkien himself then that would put him in a different category, in my view. My fear is having an article that essentially doesn't really tell the reader anything. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

== Page merging question ==

Hey Mith, I went ahead and tackled merging [[Sea-elves]] into [[Teleri]]. I wasn't sure if my method of merging the pages was right: I copied the wiki-edit text to the other page and edited it some, then marked the original page for deletion. I changed the links that lead to Sea-elves to [[Falmari]] or Teleri where needed. I wasn't sure if this was good or if I needed to do anything else/something different. [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 19:39, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

:Hi xsys, and welcome to Tolkien Gateway! To merge a page we transfer the appropriate content and turn the page into a redirect (i.e. we don't mark it for deletion) - the reason for this is so people who search for "Sea-elves" will be taken to the Teleri page, for example. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

::That makes sense. Thanks! [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 20:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

==Images==

Good evening. This is [[User talk:2.84.120.176|User2.84.120.176]]. Could you upload upload more images on the page [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]];I dont have this ability, but you do have this ability. Upload and put these NEW images on the Category:Images from The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies.OK; {{unsignedanon|2.84.120.176}}

:Thanks for getting in touch. Remembering that the DVD of ''The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies'' isn't out yet (and therefore screencaps aren't so easy to obtain), do you have any particular images in mind? Or, perhaps you could [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&type=signup sign up to Tolkien Gateway] and upload them yourself? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

==Reminding==

Hi Mith, I wonder if you could please check your email? I've sent you a request a week ago :) [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 10:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

:I have received the email but I passed it onto [[User:Hyarion]] to respond. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot. Anyway, I hope that he could reply to us soon, since, as it seems, he does not appear frequently. So here I put this forward again, mean not in the slightest to bother you. We are eager to make contact with Alan Lee, so I would be appreciated if you could give me the email address of him. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 16:44, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

:::I generally don't give out other people's email addresses without their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

:::I must apologize for my rudeness and discourtesy. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 23:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

== Quick Question ==

How do you create separate pages on a page that you are creating? {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}

:I don't understand what you mean. Create a separate page on a page you are creating? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

::Sort of, you know on a user page how you can create the different subtitles for your pages. I am wondering how to do that. {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}

:::The same as you would create any other page: simply type the pagename as a URL and then press "create an article with that title". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

::::Oh, thanks {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}

==Mithrellas==

May I ask why have you deleted the infobox? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 09:49, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:You're going to need to be more specific: what infobox have I deleted? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::My mistake. I have just realized you reverted the edits to the period where there was no infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:43, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::If you're going to insist on making three, four, five, six - and one occasion, nine! - consecutive edits, things like this will happen. Apologies for reverting the infobox as well but please can you try to learn to use the "Show preview" button and plan you edits. Nine small edits to an article are not necessary. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:59, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::I take it back. Your record is actually 10 edits in a row ([[Tréowine]]). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::::I know how to use the "Show preview" very well...But like I said, it often happens that I forget to include something in an article and have to edit it again. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::::You forget nine times in a row? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::::::Maybe "forget" is a wrong word (although not completely). "Change my mind" would be a more appropriate word. Besides, you are editing for years and I, myself, only for a couple of days. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::::::Indeed. I think we're all aware of that! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

==Copyright for images==

Please, how can I get the copyright for an image that I want to upload, but that isn't already in the "Category:Evidence of permission granted by copyright holders" section? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:You will need to contact the copyright-holder and ask for their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::By e-mail solely? Because I have already contacted a number of artists and they all gave permission. Technicality is my main issue in this matter. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::There needs to be some evidence in case it's ever challenged. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::::Here's one: http://www.deviantart.com/messages/notes/#1_0/1281622023 [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 18:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

==Obituary title==

''Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923'' is the official title of the obituary published in [[Bulletin of the Modern Humanities Research Association 20]] . All references I consulted used this title.So I think the article it should remain with that name. {{unsigned|Sigurd}}

:Absolutely not. Aside from the fact I don't think we need an article for an obituary written for someone on whom we have [[Henry Bradley|a very short article]] (we'd end up with a longer article on the obituary than on the man himself!), naming the article "''Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923''" would be ridiculous verbose and unwieldy. If an article must be made it should be something like "Obituary for Henry Bradley", but I would be against its creation. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:31, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

::I dont think ridiculous since Tolkien himself give the name to the article. Someone put the same name in reference of that Bulletin 1923 here:[[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien]].And other books I read use the same name.In addition, the obituary contains a poem written by Tolkien in Old English. And also this obituary has his own topic on [[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]([[User:Sigurd|Sigurd]] 21:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC))

:::Did Tolkien give the title, or was that the editor? In any case, it is a title of a printed obituary, not an online webpage. Any article title we choose would also be the URL. We aren't the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia and our usage should not - and does not - reflect what they have done. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

==Ninni-V==
Can you please rename the pictures of Ninni-V to Antonio Vinci. By the request of the artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:Can you please email me where the artists have granted their permission for their work to be hosted on Tolkien Gateway? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:06, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

::I have asked the permission via note on DeviantArt. What would you like me to do? You cannot access the notes considering they are private and cannot be read unless one is logged in. So....??? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:::{{blockquote|Also, as a bit of housekeeping, can you forward to me either a copy of the emails from the artists '''or a screenprint''' so we have a bit of a proof - my email is {{nospam|mith|tolkiengateway.net}}. Cheers --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC)<br/><br/>Yes, I will. But just one reminder: all the images by '''VunastiMamut''' are mine. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)|[[User talk:Woolly Mammoth]]}}

:::--{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

::::I have send you an email with a screen print for the said artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::Thanks. What about the others? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::I will. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::I have. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 16:57, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

==Vandalism==

Mith, we have a problem. There is this random guy going by the name of Webbane who is destroying stuff right now! [[User:Bane|Bane]]

:He has deleted off my page, yours, Woolly's, the Forum and a load of paragraphs from articles. Can we remove his account or something??? {{unsigned|Arya}}

::It's all been dealt with now. Isn't it interesting how a User:Bane and a User:Webbane pop up on the same night! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

==Why are you deleting MY images??==
Those images that you have deleted are my artwork! Is this vandalism or what???? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:I thought you said that they were all by other people - apologies. Although your picture of Uldor is [http://qnwn.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=116&Itemid=110&page=2 remarkably similar to one by James Adams] (also known as Sporeboy)? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::Maybe because I borrowed the pictures from some of (with permission, which I have sent you by email) those guys, aye? Some of the pictures are by other people, AND some of them are mine (namely Elmo, Bór, Uldor, Formenos!). You are behaving like an asshole and you have no right (beside being an administrator), absolutely no right to delete those images!

:::Do not speak to me like that again. As an administrator I have every right to delete any image on this website whether it be yours or anyone else's.

:::So, your image of Uldor. Did you "borrow" the one from Sporeboy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::I will speak as I want to! And, considering your image of Uldor I granted the permission to use my artwork. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:41, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::You will be civil on this wiki or you will leave. Sporeboy gave you permission to amend his image? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

==Gaurwaith==
Hello! I know I posted this before on the Template:Gaurwaith talk page, but seriously, why isn't [[Andvír]] there? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

:Fun fact: did you know there's only ever been [[Forum:Ilúvatar infobox|one other user in Tolkien Gateway's 10-year history history to use the phrase "but seriously"]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

::You did not answer my question. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Herendil

2015-06-22T08:49:54Z

Maedhros95:

{{stub}}
{{noncanon}}
{{Númenórean infobox
| image=
| name=Herendil
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=[[Elendil]]
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Herendil''' was, at one stage in the writing of the [[Númenor]] myth, the son of [[Elendil]].<ref>{{LR|P1}}</ref> His role was later replaced by [[Isildur]].

A derisive name given to Herendul was '''''Terendul''''', meaning "Slender and Dark".<ref>{{LR|P1III2}}, p. 59</ref>
==Etymology==
The name includes [[Qenya]] ''heren'' "fortune" and is translated by [[Tolkien]] with the [[Old English]] name Eadwine.<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, entry KHER</ref> Obviously his name means "Fortune-Friend".
==See also==
*[[Almáriel]]
{{references}}
[[Category:Númenóreans]]

Herendil

2015-06-22T08:49:24Z

Maedhros95: noncanon

{{stub}}
{{noncanon}}
{{Númenórean infobox
| image=
| name=Herendil
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=[[Elendil]]
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Herendil''' was, at one stage in the writing of the [[Númenor]] myth, the son of [[Elendil]].<ref>{{|LR|P1}}</ref> His role was later replaced by [[Isildur]].

A derisive name given to Herendul was '''''Terendul''''', meaning "Slender and Dark".<ref>{{LR|P1III2}}, p. 59</ref>
==Etymology==
The name includes [[Qenya]] ''heren'' "fortune" and is translated by [[Tolkien]] with the [[Old English]] name Eadwine.<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, entry KHER</ref> Obviously his name means "Fortune-Friend".
==See also==
*[[Almáriel]]
{{references}}
[[Category:Númenóreans]]

Fíriel (The Lost Road)

2015-06-22T08:42:05Z

Maedhros95: noncanon

{{noncanon}}
{{disambig-more|Fíriel|[[Fíriel (disambiguation)]]}}
{{numenorean infobox
| image=
| name=Fíriel
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Númenor]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=[[Orontor]]
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Female
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Fíriel''' was, at one stage in the writing of the [[Númenor]] myth, a [[Númenóreans|Númenórean]] maiden, daughter of [[Orontor]], of the household of [[Elendil]]. She was remembered for singing a sad song in [[Quenya]] for Elendil and [[Herendil]], beginning with "''Ilu Ilúvatar en káre''" ("The Father made the World").<ref name=P1>{{LR|P1III2}}, pp. 62-3</ref><ref>{{VT|45a}}, p. 12</ref>
{{references}}
{{title}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Firiel of Numenor}}
[[Category:Númenóreans]]

Haldir (son of Orodreth)

2015-06-22T08:39:53Z

Maedhros95: added Finduilas

{{noncanon}}
{{disambig-more|Haldir|[[Haldir (disambiguation)]]}}
{{noldor infobox
| image=
| name=Haldir
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Nargothrond]]
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death={{FA|488}}<ref>{{LR|P2III}}, p. 152</ref>
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=[[Orodreth]]
| siblings=[[Orodlin (son of Orodreth)|Orodlin]], [[Finduilas]]
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Haldir''' was, in the early stages of the [[legendarium]], the elder son of [[Orodreth]].<ref>{{LR|Index}}, p. 480</ref> He was trapped and hung to a tree by the [[Orcs|orcs]].<ref>{{SM|7In}}, p. 374</ref>

==Other Versions of the Legendarium==
The name Haldir was changed from '''Halmir''' in the later stages of the writing.<ref>{{LR|P2III}}, ''Notes'', p. 161</ref>
{{title}}
{{references}}
[[Category:Noldor]]

Orodlin (son of Orodreth)

2015-06-22T08:39:23Z

Maedhros95: added Finduilas

{{noncanon}}
{{disambig-more|Orodlin|[[Orodlin (disambiguation)]]}}
{{noldor infobox
| image=
| name=Orodlin
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=
| location=
| affiliation=
| language=
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=[[Orodreth]]
| siblings=[[Haldir (son of Orodreth)|Haldir]], [[Finduilas]]
| spouse=
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Orodlin''' was, in the earlier stages of the [[legendarium]], the younger son of [[Orodreth]].<ref>{{LR|A1}}, p. 451</ref>

{{references}}
{{title}}
[[Category:Noldor]]