2018-08-29T01:25:01Z

Naeramarth:

{{disambig-two|the Elf of Nargothrond|the Steward of Gondor|[[Orodreth (Steward of Gondor)]]}}
{{noldor infobox
| name=Orodreth
| image=[[File:Marya Filatova - Artaresto.jpg|250px]]
| caption="Artaresto" by [[Marya Filatova]]
| pronun=
| othernames=''Artaresto'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]])
| titles=[[King of Nargothrond]]
| position=Warden of [[Minas Tirith (Beleriand)|Minas Tirith]] ({{FA|60}} - {{FA|457|n}})
| location=[[Tirion]]; [[Minas Tirith (Beleriand)|Minas Tirith]]; [[Nargothrond]]
| affiliation=
| language=[[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]]
| birth=between {{YT|1300}} and {{YT|1495|n}}
| birthlocation=[[Tirion]]
| rule={{FA|465}} - {{FA|495|n}}
| death={{FA|495}}<ref name="GAS275">{{GA|275}}</ref>
| deathlocation=[[Battle of Tumhalad]]
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=[[House of Finarfin]]
| parentage=in the ''Silmarillion'': [[Finarfin]] & [[Eärwen]]; in later writings: [[Angrod]] & [[Eldalótë]]
| siblings=in the ''Silmarillion'': [[Finrod]], [[Angrod]], [[Aegnor]], and [[Galadriel]]; in later writings: none
| spouse=Unnamed [[Sindar|Sindarin]] lady<ref>{{PM|Shibboleth}}, ''The names of Finwë's descendants'', ''The parentage of Gil-galad''</ref>
| children=in the ''Silmarillion'': [[Finduilas]]; in later writings: [[Gil-galad]] & [[Finduilas]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=probably golden
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Orodreth''' ([[Sindarin|S]], pron. {{IPA|[oˈrodreθ]}}), son of [[Angrod]] was a [[Noldo]] and the [[King of Nargothrond]] in the [[First Age]]. His name in [[Quenya]] was '''Artaresto''' (pron. {{IPA|[ˌartaˈresto]}}). He was born in [[Valinor]] sometime during the [[Years of the Trees]].<ref name="Shib">{{PM|Shibboleth}}, ''The names of Finwë's descendants''</ref>

==History==
===Early History===
During the [[Flight of the Noldor]], Orodreth, alone save [[Finarfin]] spoke softly and sought to calm the Noldor.<ref>{{S|Flight}}</ref> After the return of the Noldor to [[Middle-earth]] and the completion of [[Nargothrond]], [[Finrod]] son of Finarfin gave the fortress of [[Minas Tirith (Beleriand)|Minas Tirith]] to Orodreth's keeping.<ref>{{S|Beleriand}}</ref>
Orodreth held the fortress of Minas Tirith in the vale of [[Sirion]] until [[Sauron]], lieutenant of [[Morgoth]], overran the isle shortly after the [[Dagor Bragollach]] and turned it into [[Tol-in-Gaurhoth]], The Isle of Werewolves, in {{FA|457}}. Orodreth then fled south to [[Nargothrond]].<ref>{{S|Fingolfin}}</ref>

===Arrival of Beren===
When [[Beren]], son of [[Barahir]] came to Nargothrond in {{FA|465}}, Finrod, the [[King of Nargothrond]], went with him on his [[Quest for the Silmaril|quest for the Silmaril]], fulfilling his oath. However, [[Celegorm]] and [[Curufin]], the [[sons of Fëanor|Sons of Fëanor]], were also at Nargothrond at the time, and forced Finrod to help Beren with [[Edrahil]] and only ten companions, and without the help of the majority of his people. Orodreth took up the crown, ruling as a regent, but the sons of [[Fëanor]] held the real power. Curufin called him "a dullard slow" in the ''[[Lay of Leithian]]'', and with his brother Celegorm plotted to take over Nargothrond if news came of Finrod's death. However when news came that Finrod had been killed and Tol-in-Gaurhoth destroyed, the sons of Fëanor were shamed and fell from power; the people cried out that the maiden [[Lúthien]] had done what the sons of Fëanor dared not. Orodreth returned to power and expelled Celegorm and Curufin from Nargothrond.<ref>{{S|Beren}}</ref>

===Arrival of Túrin===
In {{FA|490}}<ref>{{GA|267}}</ref>, [[Gwindor]], a prince of Nargothrond, and an escaped thrall of Morgoth, returning from his captivity in [[Angband]], led [[Túrin]], son of [[Húrin]], a [[Man]] of the [[House of Hador]] to Nargothrond. In Nargothrond Túrin hid his name, calling himself ''[[Agarwaen]]'', son of ''[[Úmarth]]'' ("Bloodstained, son of Ill-fate"). [[Finduilas]], daughter of Orodreth, fell in love with him, but he avoided her because she had previously been the beloved of his friend Gwindor. Túrin declined to tell her his name, so that she called him ''Thurin'' ("The Secret"). He was also called ''Adanedhel'' ("Man-Elf") because he was so alike to an Elf, though he was a Man.<ref name="CH10">{{CH|10}}</ref><ref name="Turin">{{S|Turin}}</ref><ref name="Narn">{{UT|Narn}}</ref>

His identity did not remain hidden for long. Gwindor revealed to Finduilas that 'Agarwaen' was in fact Túrin, and 'Úmarth' his famous father Húrin. When the news of this reached Finduilas' father, Orodreth, King of Nargothrond, Túrin was given great honor and standing, but the revelation of Túrin's identity would also bring Morgoth's curse with him.<ref name="CH10">{{CH|10}}</ref><ref name="Turin">{{S|Turin}}</ref><ref name="Narn">{{UT|Narn}}</ref>

Túrin became a chief counselor of Orodreth, and was extremely influential in Nargothrond. He encouraged the people of Nargothrond to abandon their practice of secrecy, and they built a great bridge before the gates. Because of his prowess with [[Gurthang]], his black sword, he himself became known as ''Mormegil'' ("Black Sword").<ref name="CH10">{{CH|10}}</ref><ref name="Turin">{{S|Turin}}</ref><ref name="Narn">{{UT|Narn}}</ref>

However, sometime after, two messengers, named [[Gelmir (messenger of Círdan)|Gelmir]] and [[Arminas]], sent there by [[Círdan]], arrived to Nargothrond, delivering the message from [[Ulmo]], Lord of Waters himself, to the King Orodreth, advising him to shut the doors of Nargothrond and destroy the bridge before its gates. At this time Orodreth relied upon the counsel of Túrin, who scorned the words of the messengers, for it was upon his advice that the bridge had been built and it was his policy for the King's forces to go forth openly to war, and sent them away.<ref name="Fall">{{CH|11}}</ref><ref name="Turin">{{S|Turin}}</ref><ref name="Narn">{{UT|Narn}}</ref>

This would prove to be a fatal mistake, since in {{FA|495}}<ref>{{GA|275}}</ref>, Morgoth unleashed his forces at Nargothrond and led by [[Glaurung]] the dragon, they devastated the army of Orodreth at the [[Battle of Tumhalad]]. In that battle Orodreth was slain, and after that the [[Fall of Nargothrond]] was inevitable, due to the bridge that allowed Glaurung and Morgoth's host to ravage the city, and most of its people were either enslaved or killed (including Orodreth's daughter Finduilas).<ref name="Fall">{{CH|11}}</ref><ref name="Turin">{{S|Turin}}</ref><ref name="Narn">{{UT|Narn}}</ref>

==Etymology==
The name ''Orodreth'' is glossed as "mountaineer", containing Sindarin [[ered|orod]] "mountain" and ''reth'' "*climber" (from [[RETE]] "climb").<ref>{{PE|17}}, p. 182</ref>

==Genealogy==
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;">
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| MIR |y|~|~|~|~|~|~| FIN |y| IND | | | | | | | | OLW | | | | | | | |MIR=[[Míriel]]''d. {{YT|1170}}''|FIN=[[Finwë]]''d. {{YT|1495}}''|IND=[[Indis]]''b. {{YT}}''|OLW=[[Olwë]]''b. {{YT}}''}}
{{familytree| | | |!| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|^|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | FEA | | FDS | | FNG | | IRM | | FRF |y| EAW | | SON | | | | | |FEA=[[Fëanor]]''{{YT|1169}} - {{YT|1497|n}}''|FDS=[[Findis]]''b. {{YT}}''|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]''{{YT|1190}} - {{FA|456}}''|IRM=[[Írimë]]''b. {{YT}}''|FRF=[[Finarfin]]''b. {{YT|1230}}''|EAW=[[Eärwen]]''b. {{YT}}''|SON=''unknown sons''}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|v|-|-|.| | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | FRD | | ANG |y| ELD | | AEG | | GAL |y| CEL | |FRD=[[Finrod]]''{{YT|1300}} - {{FA|465}}''|ANG=[[Angrod]]''d. {{FA|455}}''|AEG=[[Aegnor]]''d. {{FA|455}}''|GAL=[[Galadriel]]''b. {{YT|1362}}''|ELD=[[Eldalótë]]''b. {{YT}}''|CEL=[[Celeborn]]''b. {{FA}}''}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ORO | | | | | | ELR |y| CLB | | | |ORO='''ORODRETH'''''d. {{FA|495}}''|CLB=[[Celebrían]]''b. {{SA}}''|ELR=[[Elrond]]''b. {{FA|532}}''}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | GIL | | FIL | | ELL | | ELO | | ARW | |GIL=[[Gil-galad]]''d. {{SA|3441}}''|FIL=[[Finduilas]]''d. {{FA|495}}''|ELL=[[Elladan]]''b. {{TA|130}}''|ELO=[[Elrohir]]''b. {{TA|130}}''|ARW=[[Arwen]]''{{TA|241}} - {{FoA|121}}''}}
{{familytree/end}}
</div>

==Other Versions of the Legendarium==
In earlier versions of ''The Silmarillion'' legendarium as detailed in ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]'' series, Orodreth was a more important character, and the original king of Nargothrond. However, his importance diminished over time.

In the published ''[[The Silmarillion|Silmarillion]]'', Orodreth is a son of Finarfin rather than a grandson, with the Quenya name '''Artaresto'''.

In later versions, [[Gil-galad]], later [[High King of the Noldor]], was Orodreth's son, but in the published ''Silmarillion'' Gil-galad is made into [[Fingon]]'s son instead. An earlier idea was that Orodreth's son was named '''Hallas''', but Gil-galad replaced him. Since this later revision wasn't integrated in any of his father's narratives, [[Christopher Tolkien]] didn't include it in the published text. However, unlike in the matter of Gil-galad, Christopher Tolkien believed that the decision to make Orodreth the son of Angrod was final.

In his last writings, Tolkien changed Orodreth's name to '''[[Artaher]]''' ([[Quenya]]) / '''Arothir''' ([[Sindarin]]), but it was never introduced in any narratives, so Christopher Tolkien left the name Orodreth unchanged.<ref name="Shib">{{PM|Shibboleth}}, ''The names of Finwë's descendants''</ref>

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Orodreth|Images of Orodreth]]

{{references}}
{{seq-start}}
{{seq-head
|race=noldor
|house=[[House of Finarfin]]
|born=during the [[Years of the Trees]]
|died={{FA|495}}
}}
{{seq
|prev=[[Finrod]]
|nvac=None
|next=kingdom destroyed
|list=[[King of Nargothrond]]
|dates={{FA|465}} – {{FA|495|n}}
}}
{{seq-end}}

[[Category:Characters in The Book of Lost Tales]]
[[Category:Characters in The Children of Húrin]]
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[Category:House of Finarfin]]
[[Category:First Age characters]]

[[de:Orodreth (Elb)]]
[[fi:Orodreth]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/noldor/orodreth]]

Talk:Orodreth

2018-08-27T04:02:12Z

Naeramarth: /* Would you mind... */

==Move==
Move to Orodreth? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:05, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes. And before you start asking, [[Finduilas|Finduilas of Nargothrond]] too. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:10, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

==Silmarillion vs. Late notes==

Why was my revision, which placed the genealogy from Silmarillion above the later one, removed?
There was nothing factually wrong in it. And it's completely arbitrary to use as main source the later notes, giving a version of the story that wasn't introduced in any narrative and it's pretty much obscure. Not to mention the confusion for readers.
Following the same logic, you should change as well the article about Finrod Felagund and state that he was married, because that's what the last notes on the matter say (HoME vol. XII: "On Dwarves and Men", "The Shibboleth of Fëanor"), even when this contradicts everything that is said in the main narratives.
The question is, why is given preference to quickly written notes (that we don't even know if were definitive or not) over the big bulk of narratives that is extant? That would require that all references to the making of the Sun and the Moon are removed as well from the articles, because that's what the last notes on the matter say. But what's the point of talking about the stories that "could" have been, but never were? We would be talking about a fictional book that was never written. {{unsigned|95.22.94.140 }}

:It was reverted because the intro that does not comply with [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|the Manual of Style]]. That you left a link to "Elf (Middle-earth)" in there is a dead giveaway you just copied if off wikipedia . Also, no not mess with headers. It may need a rewrite to comply with our new ideas towards canon, but that doesn't mean we have to accept everything that's added. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 17:38, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

No, it wasn't just "copied off" from Wikipedia. It was me the one who edited the Wikipedia article, following some complaints precisely about this issue in that page. In fact, the original article in this page was an obvious copy of the original article in Wikipedia, that followed all that "Orodreth son of Angrod" version, so that's not an excuse. And what has to do the style with the content? Just because there's a wrong link doesn't mean that the content is wrong. {{unsigned|95.22.94.140}}

:Even if you wrote the text on wikipedia, it's still not okay to just paste it here without bothering about markup. We have entirely different ways of linking, different headers, different rules concerning in-universe writing, different templates.

:Admittedly, a lot of stuff was copied in the early days. Not all of it has been cleaned up. But that doesn't mean content should still be copied. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:58, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

==Orodreth's Quenya names==

The article says that the Quenya name of Orodreth in the published Silmarillion is Artanáro. However, I can't find that name being mentioned in the book. Where is it? Besides, if the last Quenya name proposed by Tolkien was Artaher (with Artaresto being just a passing variation), shouldn't be Artaher the name that appears in the infobox and main text?--[[Special:Contributions/84.125.23.220|84.125.23.220]] 17:05, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
::The name Artanáro is not mentioned in the published Silmarillion. In the appendix "Elements in Quenya and Sindarin Names" there are mentioned Fëanáro and Aikanáro (plus Findaráto and Angaráto) but not Artanáro. The development of the name and also of the descendance of the person itself is quite complicated, and I think it should be addressed more profoundly, noticing clearly the differences between the story taken into the published Silmarillion by CJRT (known to the majority of the readers) and the further development of the story only found in the pages of the HoME, leading from Artanáro (also one of the possible names of Gil-galad) to Artaresto/Rodreth/Orodreth to Artaher/Arothir, and from being the son of Finarfin to being the son of Angrod. --Tik 15:54, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

:::Then, if Artanáro is never mentioned in The Silmarillion, the line that says so is misleading. In my opinion, the development of the genealogy of Orodreth and Gil-galad is clear enough already. What seems confusing are the Quenya names: first Artanáro, then Artaresto and finally Artaher. Maybe it would be good to cite all three names in one of the sub-sections to see the development of the character, but leave the last one (Artaher) for the introduction and infobox. The Sindarin names are probably less confusing; the article says that, even if Tolkien proposed the Sindarin name Arothir later, is likely that "Orodreth" would have been kept as the main name.--[[Special:Contributions/84.125.23.220|84.125.23.220]] 19:47, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

== Would you mind... ==

Would you mind if I added Orodreth's Silmarillion history, parantage, and siblings to those already entered? It would reduce the confusion any Silmarillion only readers might feel at the difference in what they have read and what is listed as fact...It even gave me a turn until I did some digging in the History volumes, and I am a well-established Tolkienian, so I can't imagine the bewilderment of a Middle Earth newbie at seeing something so different from what he has read...unless he has read the ten volumes of History already, in which case he shouldn't be needing to look on Wikipedia at all :) I don't even fully understand the reasoning behind including the "new" parentage of Orodreth at all: it matches up with nothing else in any of the Legendarium, and was clearly an afterthought of Tolkien's considering the unbalanced significance of Orodreth as a son of Finarfin and his lack of action in the text. Is it even necessary at all to include it? If it is, then I will leave it alone and simply add the additional information.
[[User:Naeramarth|Naeramarth]] 04:02, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Orodreth

2018-08-26T23:24:28Z

Naeramarth: /* Would you mind... */ new section