Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/31 July 2011

2011-07-17T03:07:28Z

Quidon88: /* Attendees */

Please put any ideas for the agenda and any general discussion here. If you are going to attend (or not), please sign your name below.
==Attendees==
# {{User:KingAragorn/sig}}
# {{User:Mith/sig}} 18:58, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
# {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:55, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
# [[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 03:07, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

==Non-Attendees==

==Ideas for Agenda==
==Discussion==
*Ederchil, this meeting is just to discuss the notion that Tolkien Gateway should become a charity. --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:25, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

__NOTOC__

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 December 2010

2010-12-03T14:51:29Z

Quidon88: Fingers crossed I can make it

Please put any ideas for the agenda and any general discussion here. Remember please sign your name below if you are going to attend (or not).

==Attendees==
# {{User:Mith/sig}} 15:48, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
# --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:41, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
# --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:32, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
# --[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 7:48, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

==Non-Attendees==
* [[wikipedia:Sinterklaas|Probably not]]. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

==Ideas for Agenda==
* Update from [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] on technical issues, including allowing anonymous editors. --{{User:Mith/sig}}
* Discuss a standard for language articles (see [[Talk:And]] and [[User talk:Sage#Elvish roots/stems]]). --{{User:Mith/sig}}
* Allowing admins to update the FA/FQ on the [[Main Page]] in order to keep it fresh (in recognition of poor participation in both). --{{User:Mith/sig}}
* What is our strategy with [[The Hobbit films]]? Can we use it to improve [[Tolkien Gateway:Membership Growth|poor membership growth]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}}

==Discussion==
* If this Sunday 5th proves inconvenient, I think we should move this back a week. --{{User:Mith/sig}}

__NOTOC__

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 April 2009

2009-04-02T08:31:31Z

Quidon88: /* Attendees */

Please put any ideas for the agenda and any general discussion here. Remember you must sign your name below if you are going to attend.

==Attendees==
#--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 12:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
# -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 12:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
# --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:16, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
#--[[User:Mith|Mith]] 09:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
#--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 2 April 2009 (UTC)

==Ideas for Agenda==
* Should ''[[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]]'' be renamed into ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy]]'', and the three parts also by their official title? By extension, should this also be applied to [[Rankin/Bass]]' films and ''[[Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings]]''? Since games have all been renamed, but movies not (yet). -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 12:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
* Images - a rediscussion of fair use and unknown artists. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
* Make sure that members (at least the meeting attendees) have 'E-mail me when my user talk page is changed' selected in their Preferences; that way if anyone ever contacts other users (for instance, if I wanted to make them aware of the meeting that is planned) they will recieve an email.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:29, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
* Every time the site is down ("Tolkien Gateway is having a problem"), it shows an old logo. Can we get a new one there? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 20:22, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

==Discussion==

Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/31 August 2008

2008-08-25T13:44:12Z

Quidon88: added signature

Please put any ideas for the agenda and any general discussion here. Remember you must sign your name below if you are going to attend.

==Attendees==
#{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 10:51, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
#{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:56, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
#[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 13:44, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
==Ideas for Agenda==
* The creation of a Gateway-wide library, where users can ask other users for reference if they don't have a specific book. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}}

==Discussion==

User talk:Ederchil

2008-08-19T01:44:04Z

Quidon88: /* Games */ reply

'''{{PAGENAME}}, welcome!'''

Hello and [[Tolkien Gateway:Welcome|welcome]] to '''[[Tolkien Gateway:About|Tolkien Gateway]]'''. I hope you like the place and choose to join our work. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
*Internal pages:
**[[Tolkien Gateway:To-do|To-do list]]
**[[Forum:Council|Council forums]]
**[[Special:Recentchanges|Recent changes]]
*External Wikipedia pages:
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:How to edit a page|How to edit a page]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Tutorial|Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Picture tutorial|Picture tutorial]]
**[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:How to write a great article|How to write a great article]]

I hope you enjoy editing here and we look forward to your future edits. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~<nowiki>~~</nowiki>. Four tildes (~~<nowiki>~~</nowiki>) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the [[Tolkien Gateway:Help|help pages]], add a question to the [[Forum:Council|Council forums]] or ask me on [[User talk:Hyarion|my talk page]]. Keep up the great work! — [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]

== MinasTirith.com: antwoord ==
Niet ver van uw domicilie; 'k kom bij tijd en wijle wel in Grunn' :-) ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 14:57, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:'k Hoop niet dat je te veel verwacht van dat schotschrift van Uyldert. 't Is om te huilen! ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 16:34, 6 March 2008 (EST)

::'k Kan me niet herinneren, dat ik em gezien heb, toen ik er laatst was, maar 'k zag wel vlekken voor de ogen, toen ik bij de Tolkienia stond! ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 12:30, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Chat ==

Hey there Ederchil, I just thought I'd let you know about the [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|IRC chat]], feel free to join if you ever feel like it, there's at least a couple MinasTirith.com members (Ardamir, Halion, Mith, myself) or wiki editors usually on. We're hoping soon there will be enough interest so we can setup weekly meetings to discuss the wiki. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:26, 27 January 2008 (EST)

:I'm not really a chatter, but I'll try and figure it out. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 09:07, 28 January 2008 (EST)

== Events ==

You've been doing a great job with the year articles, they're looking so much better now. One thing that's been on my mind is how we can store the data more efficiently. For instance I've started creating articles such as [[January 1]] which will list all the events that have ocurred on January 1st both on Earth and on Arda. Then we can include these articles into the [[Main Page]] to see what happened today. I haven't quite figured out the best layout for the page, since we'll want to easily include these. Also, I think we can probably be more specific as to what the Fellowship of the Ring was doing on that day. Like if there isn't any specific event on that day, we can just say they were traveling from X to X or something.

For now I guess we'll just have to manually type things in both year and day articles, but in the future it would be nice if we could type up the event in one location and the other articles include that data somehow, I haven't figured out how to get that to work yet. It would be nice if we could display events by type too, like publication, birth, death, etc. Just thought I'd let you know what's going through my head :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:I had a similar thing in my head :). I planned to propose such a thing after I've finished the year-articles (long way from finished, still got 1921-1970 to go). -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:29, 29 January 2008 (EST)

::Okay, checked it out. We need a disambig on [[May]], though. Now it leads to the Hobbit. Maybe make the titles [[May (month)]] and so for every month? And perhaps a subheader, "In the Calendar of Imladris/Shire Calendar/King's Reckoning etcetera, it is bla bla bla". -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]]

== About the Lorien Elves source ==

You asked about a source for the Lorien Elves in the Fall of Fornost page, and I have an answer. In Appendix A, page 1016 it says that Elrond brought Elves from Lorien to help fight Angmar. Even if this was a hundred years before Fornost's fall, they were probably still aiding in the fight with the other Elf-realms and Arnor by the time Fornost fell. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 14:21, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

:Okay. Just wondering. Maybe it's better if you cite the sources too, it just looks a bit more encyclopedic. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 16:42, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

I do when I remember lol. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 18:09, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== New Skin ==

Hey there Ederchil. I was just wondering what your thoughts were on the [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Gandalf&useskin=ithilien new skin]. The only thing I'm a little concerned about is the light blue background makes the text somewhat hard to read. Would you prefer keeping the content inside of a white box to look more like the [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Main%20Page&useskin=ithilien Main Page]? If you have any other suggestions just let me know, I'd also like to change the color scheme of the main page, as well as the featured article/quote/etc when we launch the new skin, kind of a Tolkien Gateway 3.0. I'm hoping to make the switch soon, I just want to make sure the majority of people see it as an improvement. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:42, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

== Brühl ==

Oh yes, the castles are very nice, which of them did you visit? ''Augustusburg'' or ''Falkenlust''?

:The big one. Don't remember what it was called. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 09:23, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

''Augustusburg''. But at the moment the terrace of the gardenside is a building lot, it doesn't look very nice. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:53, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

== Thanks ==

Hey, thanks for help with those edits on the rose cotton page. i had family over, screaming cousins and all that, couldnt really pay attention.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 12:47, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Hey, sorry about that, no, i was playing trivia on irc, sorry about that, im done multi tasking.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Stephen White ==

I know how you feel- 41 links! The way i figured it out was on user:smeagol's discussion page, hyarion asked him how he wanted to be credited as the artist of all those pictures, so I just redirected it to user:smeagol(as you can no doubt tell, dont know why I'm explaining it, just rambling I guess). And while I got you here, I was wondering if you'd like to join us in the chatrooms, its far easier to get a question on there, as hyarion, myself, and a lot of the other more frequent editors are almost always on there. Hyarion has even been trying to set up TG meetings, which youd be more than welcome to join in on. If it is about your internet connection, don't worry about that, i had slow dial-up for ages before finally getting hi-speed internet and was able to use the java clients with ease. Anyway, thats how I solved that problem, and I hope you join us soon.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 11:50, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:My internet's good - in fact, it's the envy of this house because I'm the closest of six d-links to the transmitter-watchamacallit, almost rocksteady at 54 mb/s. I've tried the chatroom a couple of times, but it doesn't always work. And when I'm in, there's nobody home. Probably because there's half a globe between me and Hyarion. I'll try it now. Okay. I'm in. Never been this in before, to be fair. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 13:02, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Unify? ==

Hey, hmmm... I looked it up and in the online dictionary was the entry ''to unify sth.'' = ''etw. vereinheitlichen''. I want to say, that Carroux doesn't transfer the different levels of language, used by the characters very good in her translation. I'm sorry, if my English isn't every time so good, I mean for me it is a foreign language.

Maybe ''to standardise'' is a better verb? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 11:35, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

:Simplify? -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 12:28, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

I think ''to standardise'' is the right word for my intended meaning. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 12:54, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

== Redirections of alternative names ==

Goeienavond, Ederchil!

I notice you have recently been redirecting some new lemmata[http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Telpeross%C3%AB&diff=60937&oldid=60936 [1]][http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Zigil-n%C3%A2d&diff=60899&oldid=38204 [2]] on alternative (or rejected) names to the commonly used names. I have no problem with that (but remember [[Forum:English_vs._Tolkien_language_entries|this]], Zigil-nâd might have some etymology). However, the lemmata to which you've been redirecting don't mention the alternative name at all, so that any reader who is no expert will only wonder why he has been redirected, and will be none the wiser on the alternative name. So I have taken the liberty of incorporating the minimally necessary information you threw out on redirection to the main lemmata in question. I've also added talk to both pages based on your diff comments.

Maybe in future it would be better to make sure the redirected name is actually mentioned in the article redirected to.

Hoop dat je je daarin kunt vinden. -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 12:43, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

:Mee eens; Zigil-nâd is, zeker ten aanzien van de Zirak/Zigil discussie, het invoegen waard. Maar ik wil er op wijzen dat Telperossë '''nergens''' in de boeken voorkomt (het zou bovendien *Tyelperossë of *Tyeleprossë moeten zijn), zelfs niet in The Problem of Ros. Ik heb het bovendien gegoogled; een fanfic-personage, verder niets.

:Oh, stik. In English: Yes, agree. Considering the Zirak/zigil discussion (not really well covered here, tbf) it is wirth inclusion. Telperossë (incorrect Q form) is however nothing more than a fanfic character; it does not appear in Tolkien's writings, not even The Problem of Ros. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 14:04, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

::Wat mij betreft kan Telperossë dan weg.
::If you want to remove Telperossë from the Celebros info box and nominate the redirected lemma for deletion, go ahead, and I'll support you.
::I've meanwhile put [[Ramas Echor]][http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ramas_Echor&diff=61521&oldid=61473 [1]] through the same treatment - put the good bits of what 'Arwen Legolas Wilson' wrote in [[Rammas Echor]], put my reasons for not including the rest in the Talk there, and proposed the typo for speedy deletion. -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 17:03, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Gezelli hoor, Nederlanders onder elkaar ;-)
:::[[User:Mithrennaith|Mith]] wrote: ''nominate the redirected lemma for deletion''. I'd rather say: don't delete the redirected lemma, but rewrite it in stating that [[Telperossë]] is a fanfic name and not to be found in [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien's]] works. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 03:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

::::Gezelli zeker. Ik heb Telperossë niet teruggevonden als naam voor de rivier, maar voor een personage in een [http://www.elfwood.com/art/l/a/lana965/telperosse_argenino.jpg.html fanfic]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:35, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

:::::Maybe one fanfic reference is indeed a bit too shallow to base a lemma on. ~ [[User:Earendilyon|Earendilyon]] 03:44, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

::::::I'm in favour of deletion, then. -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 10:53, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

== Glamdring ==

Greetings, my fellow senior editor. I want to thank you for all you do and supporting our first FA since well, ''the''' ''FA'''. As the ramrod behind the new process, though I feel I have to tell you the truth. We really can't encourage self-nomination, which ''is'' self-promotion. The article has all the parts required, but it is rather short. I've been watching, and it isn't gathering any support. I not going to vote against it, but you should consider withdrawing this nomination for the time being. I have another article in mind that is a stronger candidate.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 19:19, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:I know it isn't very long... but featured doesn't mean long, it means good. Glamdring is obviously not the best - I don't even like it yet. I'm still waiting on some sources to come in, and the "fate" section could do with some expansion (though it's going to be tricky to find other theories on the matter). Maybe the nomination was a bit premature?
:If the other article is Witch-king of Angmar, that one has my vote on it. TBF, I prefer it over Aragorn. But we need to create a pool of FA's, which don't necessarily need to be articles about major characters. Since we are an all-things-to-do-with-Tolkien encyclopedia, that could (should?) be reflected in FA's. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 02:56, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

== TolkienNews ==

Greetings and thank you for the welcome message!

I checked the "To-Do list" and this came to my atention:

"Decide on a slogan for TolkienNews.net. And maybe a new title? Tolkien Times?"

How about bringing some news into TolkienNews? :) Tolkien Times sounds good, but the last article there is from December2007. If updated more often, I think the site would be awesome, since it's one of the few (on Tolkien) who have RSS News Feed (basically it's TolkienNews, TheOneRing and Elfenomeno who are accurate and have RSS...at least that's what I've found so far).

All the best! :)

Þelma

:For everything admin-like, check [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]. My bad that your welcome message links here. As for Tolkiennews, it's undergoing renovation. I think.
:So, ask Hyarion. He's in charge, he usually does the welcoming. Take in mind that he lives in California, so don't expect an immediate answer. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:51, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

I wrote to Hyarion about it. Also, thank you for correcting my article and specifying the translation of Ingoldo. 
[[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 12:11, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

==Redirect==

Houston, we have a problem.

I did the redirection of the [[Meneldur]] page towards the [[Tar-Meneldur]] page...and it first looked like this :

From Tolkien Gateway
Redirect page
#REDIRECT Tar-Meneldur

BUT! When typing 'Meneldur' on 'Search', it leads me to the OLD Meneldur page, instead of Tar-Meneldur. Methinks I'm not doing this right. So pretty please, can you do it? ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 07:04, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

:Hmm. Works fine for me. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 12:47, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

:: Now works for me too...Weird. Anyways, good thing that it finally works. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 12:53, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Stubbing ==
Now, I know you're a knowledgeable guy, but you could at least let the ink dry on the [[Second Battle of Dagorlad]] before you jumped on it. It's only a stub, dude. Hold your fire for a little while during construction, OK?--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 15:43, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

:Sorry. I'm feeling a bit impatient today. And maybe a bit bossy. It's all yours. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:49, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

== Annatar and Glorfindel ==
Hello :) I hope it's alright to put this here. I just wanted to thank you for the Annatar edit, the page looks much better now!
The Glorfindel drawing you mentioned, is it this one? http://www.bohemianweasel.com/Portfolio/PortfolioLotR37WGlorfindel.htm
If so, please feel free to take it if you can use it somewhere. :) xx
-- [[User:Bohwe|Bohwe]] 16:13, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Hey, just a little question, is that new Glorfindel pic really better than the old old one at http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Image:BFME2_-_Glorfindel.jpg ?[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:28, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

:The old one was from Battle for Middle-earth II. I thought it looked better at the adaptations section (where it is now), since it shows the silver hair. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 02:38, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
==Tale of Years==
Thanks for the input. Although I have tried to compile timelines, I never boethered noting down the inconsistencies. Do you have in hand any such notes? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 04:58, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

:I have... it's called ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]]''. It details all incosistencies, and mentions which one got corrected in the 50th anniversary edition (all of them, actually). -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:59, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

== in-universe and out-of-universe ==

Hi again, I don't know if you are an admin or something but you really know what happens around here, so I decided to msg you personally.

I hope you understand what the title means. They are terms not used in Tolkienology or Tolkien Studies but it helps clear up some things. It is a policy seen in other fiction wikis, such as Wookieepedia. The policy goes that real-world references aka "oou" are prohibited in an main article, and the text goes from the "iu" point of view, which regards the events as real. "oou" analyses and backgrounds are reserved for a separate section of the article, usually called 'Behind the scenes'.

I am not sure if there is such a guideline here, and many articles mention Tolkien, the works' names, or the movies and actors in the bulk of the text, or regard the descriptions as fictional. They also mention the movies appearances directly (see the [[Oliphaunts]] article history before I cleaned it up). So I just wanted to ask. Is there such a guideline? Does anybody thing it should be followed? Are the oou references tolerated, or should we clean them up? If no such policy has been considered in the rules and guidelines, perhaps it would be useful for uniformity? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 04:43, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

:First, I'm not an admin. Hyarion is the only admin here.

:As for guidelines, we have one big difference from Wookieepedia: we can't call it "behind the scenes". For development of a character, "Other versions of the Legendarium" is usually the header, though our [[Tolkien Gateway: Standards|guidelines]] are grey. You can call it "Inspiration" or "Development" too. For "Etymology" and "Portrayal in adaptations", basically a mix between story and "behind the scenes". Oh, and please do'nt edit Oliphaunts, I'm redoing Portrayal.
:As for uniformity, it's one of my wishes. But this wiki has for a long time not had good quality control, so there are many wikirips, bad layouts, random added sentences, people who don't know the guidelines, et cetera. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:01, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
::I understood that 'properly' the oou references go to those sections you mentioned (no, I didn't ask to make use of the BtS name :)). I wondered whether this would be 'obligatory' so to say for or the articles, if there is a consensus to fix all those problems you mentioned... create such a guideline, and fix existing articles, or whether the non-uniformity should be tolerated. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:20, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

:::That's something to discuss with Hyarion. He's coming back today, so that wouldn't be a problem. I really want to extend the guidelines, but retroactively enforcing them will be much work. I usually check all recent changes to see if there's something wrong layout-wise, but that's only the tip of the iceberg. For example, many articles in [[:Category:Constellations]] were written by someone over at KontuWiki, our Finnish sister-site, and it uses their layout and reference system. I redid some of them, but there's still work to do. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:32, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Adminship ==

Hi, Ederchil! Congratulations on your admin nomination, I've given you my support, just make sure you [[Tolkien Gateway:Requests for adminship#Nominee's acceptance|accept the nomination]]!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:56, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

:You had better accept it, after I broke all this new ice to make it. It's time to put the laurel wreath on your head. Just watch out for any guys named Brutus, OK?--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 19:03, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

::Done. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 02:33, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

== Meetings ==

Hi Ederchil ! I just wanted to draw your attention to [[Forum:Meetings|here]]. We are currently discussing the idea of a weekly site meeting. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:11, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

==Princess==

Well, her father was Lord of Dor-lómin, her mother was Lady of Dor-lómin, her brother was Prince of Dor-lómin. That's why the princess title, which would come in naturally. I'm not saying she was called, I'm saying if her brother was a prince, what makes her? Anyways, you open the book and clarify that. :) All that I wrote for this line I wrote from memory :) ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 09:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:I see the title "Prince" pop up everywhere. Maybe we need an article for it? (Wookieepedia has one) What does the title mean in every culture, who were princes/princesses, what power did they have, et cetera.

::I think it's a great idea. And I also think it would require a lot of work, since it's synthesis at its best. Myself I've been trying to find a way to write an article for Queen of the Noldor (since it pop-ed up in Míriel Þerindë's box), though I'm still debating on whether it should be created in the first place or what should it contain. So,if we have articles for Kings and Queens of the Númenóreans, with listings and everything, it would come natural to have those kind of articles for other races, or all races combined, describing the title itself. Dunno, these are my thoughts on it. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 10:14, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:::I have the Sil, Hobbit and LotR in PDF, so Ctrl+F "prince" really speeds things up. Too bad I don't have UT. That wil be simple grunt-work. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 10:40, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

::::I can send that to you, when we'll meet on the IRC at one of those already famous weekly meetings :p. If that can be done, ofc. I have only used the IRC once in my life, and that was when I installed to talk to Hyarion, so dunno yet what can or cannot be done with it. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 11:08, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::AFAIK, you can do little with it other than chatting. Attachments would be snailmail, I fear. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:39, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

::::::As long as you guys are using a real IRC client such as XChat or mIRC then you can easily transfer files, however the Java client doesn't offer such functionality. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 17:44, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:I don't know whether this is the right place to go on about the use of the title, but I can't locate anything this is supposed to be the answer to - I assume, however, that this was originally about calling Nienor "princess of Dor-Lómin". Well, I don't think that will do, actually.

:As far as I know, Túrin was never called Prince of Dor-Lómin (please point out the place if I'm wrong!). Húrin was Lord of Dor-Lómin, and so Morwen his wife was Lady of Dor-Lómin, but such a territorial lordship would not give their children the title of Lord or Lady. Actually, Túrin is described as the "Heir of Dor-Lómin", presumably used as abbreviation of 'heir-apparent', being the (only) son of the Lord. But he never even became Lord, as he never actually succeeded his father, predeceasing him.

:Nowhere in this is there any ground for giving Nienor the title of 'Lady', let alone 'Princess'! -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 00:04, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

:: Really?
:: I don't argue about the "Prince"/"Princess" title, though I am pretty sure it was not placed there for no reason. It must have apeared somewhere in the Narn at one point. However, until I will find it, I accept your "demonstration" that he was not prince.
:: As for what titles should receive the children of a Lady and Lord...I wonder what makes you so sure, exclamation points and everything. Not only do I find the judgement a bit incorrect, but also if you read the chapter "The Return of Túrin to Dor-lómin" you will see that Túrin is called "Lord of Dor-Lómin" like 10 times, by himself and by various other people. In fact, he is called Lord in other places and other people not replated to Dor-lómin, like Dorlas in the chapter "The Coming of Glaurung". More so, Nienor is called many times Lady Niniel in the chapter "The Death of Glaurung". I think that's title enough. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 01:35, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

== Unquendor's emblem ==

Good call, that one. I will add Unquendor's emblem (logo is technically the wrong description, I once learned from a graphic designer) when next month's AGM will have settled definitively how it should (and may) look! :) -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 23:38, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

== The Netherlands ==

Bit of useless trivia learned during a university course of 'Legal English': "The Netherlands", with capital T, is the official spelling of the English name of our country, since the article is actually an indispensible part of the name. I give it for what it's worth. ;) -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 23:38, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

== Revisions of LotR translations ==

Actually, your 1973 'Cor Blokjes' have the unrevised translation - the first revision came 1980. But there were two rounds of corrections in 1965 and 1968/67 before the first revision (no one seems to know about that second correction, it was done surreptitiously, but it changed e.g. the infamous 'touwbrug' into the correct 'lijnbaan' in Chapter 4 I). Incidentally, distinguishing 'corrections' and 'revisions' is my own decision, but I think a defensible one, seeing that the revisions each have their own dated 'Translator's Note' and are called 'herziene vertaling' by the publisher, the corrections have no Note and the 1965 one is called 'herziene druk' by Het Spectrum (and they never identified the 1968/67 one explicitly). Apologies for being a bit pedantic about this, but Het Spectrum and successors made such a mess of things that extra thought and care has to go into proper description of all the different versions. Johan Vanhecke and Pieter Collier's bibliography is a great help and a first standard, but I've been promising them a load of small and some big corrections for two years now - still working on them, I'm afraid. :( -- [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 23:38, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

:Ja, de Cor Blokjes. Thanks, will check when at home. Ropewalk = Lijnbaan? Grappig, Lijnbaan is een straat in mijn geboortedorp, vroeg me altijd al af... -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:09, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

== Games ==

You asked in the meeting whether or not Games should be under Adaptations, and am wondering whether or not you would like to move on that. Information is first and foremost obviously, but images, categorization, and infoboxes also need to implemenetd. Im willing to work on it either way, I just would like some feedback/advice on what is to be done with it.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 16:39, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well, I think Games takes up an often forgotten part Adaptations - one could argue the Vivendi games care more about the story than Jackson's films. Much work needs to be done - [[Melbourne House]]'s games, other early games. They're mostly wikirips now. Some random thoughts:
:An Infobox would certainly work, with publishing date, publisher and platform (though I don't know what else).
:I think in "Portrayal in Adaptations" sections the three kinds of adaptations (screen, radio and interactive) should at least be on level par. Though maybe my current layout doesn't distinguish them enough.
:As for categorizing, there needs to be a subcategory "Video games", with further subcategories "EA games", "Vivendi games" and "Melbourne House games" (or something similar). There needs to be some standard in naming too; I've named them after their publisher in [[Gandalf#Portrayals_in_Adaptations|some places]].
:Images. It would be nice if we had screenshots of all major characters and places; I already made a lot for ''The Hobbit'', but we need other games. Maybe we need to figure out a naming standard as well.
:Don't know if it's workable, it's getting late here. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 17:25, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
::All good points, especially about Vivendi's portrayal. I like the idea of categorizing by publishers, I mean, we do that with the movies, and we should stay consistent to avoid confusion. Screenshots will be very doable, I have the Hobbit for PC, and Battle for Middle-Earth II for it as well, so those wont be any trouble. I was told a few months ago about a website that had great screenshots of games, but its name eludes me at the moment. And I am going to start by de-wikifying up the rips, make them read better for our audience, etc, but I also think that reviews would be nice, maybe have editors who have played give their thoughts, though that may not necessarily be vital, it wouldn't hurt. Kind of late for me too, but Ill get started as soon as possible.

Talk:Troll-fells

2008-08-18T21:00:58Z

Quidon88: Redirect?

Can anyone verify that this is the Ettenmoors? Cause a part of me just wants to redirect.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 17:00, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

User talk:Ederchil

2008-08-18T20:39:10Z

Quidon88: Games

The Lord of the Rings: Conquest

2008-08-18T20:01:28Z

Quidon88: Delected Section- pics already in 'images of'

{{game|
title=The Lord of the Rings: Conquest|
image=[[Image:The Lord of the Rings - Conquest - 5.jpg|250px]]|
publisher= [[EA]] Games|
release date=Fall [[2008]]|
console=PC, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Nintendo DS|
language=English|
distribution=|
availability=|
licensed=|
}}
'''The Lord of the Rings: Conquest''' is an upcoming video game by Pandemic Studios for the PC, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, and Nintendo DS consoles. [[Weta]] worked alongside Pandemic, and has provided several digital models for them to use, including the [[fell beasts]].

== Gameplay ==
===Good Campaign===
The Good Campaign begins at the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men|Battle of the Last Alliance]] as a training stage, and continues with loosely-based settings from the films, such as the [[Battle of Isengard]] as an [[Ent]], [[Gandalf]] fighting [[Saruman]] in [[Orthanc]], battling the [[Balrog]] in the [[Mines of Moria]], battling the [[Nazgûl]] as [[Faramir]] while protecting [[Frodo]], and fighting inside [[Minas Morgul]]. There is also a mission that has [[Balin]] and his attempts to take back Moria.
===Evil Campaign===
The Evil Campaign begins immediately in an alternate universe, where the Nazgûl have just killed Frodo and stopped him from destroying the [[One Ring]]. Players will have the chance to fight as [[Oliphaunts]] at [[Minas Tirith]], as [[Trolls]] at [[Helm's Deep]], as the Balrog, as the Nazgûl against [[Aragorn]] at [[Weathertop]], against [[the Shire]], and lastly, as [[Sauron]] himself against [[Rivendell]].

==Soundtrack==
The game will feature narration by a yet unannounced actor from [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]]. [[Howard Shore]]'s tracks from the film are also included in the game.

==See also==
*[[:Category:Images of The Lord of the Rings: Conquest|Images of The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]].

==External links==
*[http://pandemicstudios.com/conquest Official website]
*[http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2008/05/08/28812-what-is-the-lord-of-the-rings-conquest-pandemic-studios-eric-%e2%80%9cgiz%e2%80%9d-gewirtz-tells-us-about-it/ theonering.net interview with the Director of The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]
[[Category:EA Games]]

Hithui

2008-08-17T02:38:56Z

Quidon88: added to cat. Sind words

'''Hithui''' was the [[Sindarin]] name for the eleventh month of the year, equivalent to [[Quenya]] [[Hísimë]] and comparable to the [[Shire-hobbits]]' [[Blotmath]] and modern November. Its name comes from the Elvish word for 'mist', and it marked the descent of winter on [[Middle-earth]]. After the beginning of Hithui, no long journeys were attempted in the [[Northlands]] until the arrival of the following spring.

[[Category:Months]][[Category:Sindarin words]]

User talk:Lord Cutler Beckett

2008-08-16T03:16:05Z

Quidon88: Greetings!

Welcome milord! Nice to have you aboard, your contributions will be most welcome. While you're waiting for Hyarion to give you the standard greeting, allow me to invite you to the chatroom, most of us regulars can be found [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tolkien_Gateway:Chat| there]throughout the day, so stop on by. Hope to see you soon!--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 23:16, 15 August 2008 (EDT)

Fang (dog)

2008-08-15T00:29:37Z

Quidon88:

Down in the [[Marish]] in the far east of the [[Shire]], the land of the [[Hobbits]] drew near the River [[Brandywine]] and the edge of the world beyond. The [[Shire-folk]] in this region were more cautious than their fellow Hobbits who lived farther from the borders, and so they sought protection from the dangers beyond the River.

For [[Farmer Maggot]] of [[Bamfurlong]], that protection came in the form of three large, wolf-like dogs, one of which he gave the name 'Fang' (the other two were named '[[Grip]]' and '[[Wolf (dog)| Wolf]]', . These ferocious but well-trained animals lived at his farm at the time of the [[War of the Ring]], but he had evidently kept other dogs before these. [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] had frightening memories of Maggot's dogs going back some thirty years, but the dogs that had threatened him three decades earlier could hardly have been Fang, Grip or Wolf.

[[Category:Dogs]]
[[de:Fang]]
[[fi:Pyry]]

Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/17 August 2008

2008-08-15T00:09:37Z

Quidon88: added agenda

The Tolkien Gateway's first meeting will take place on Sunday the 17th of August 2008, please see below for the proposed meeting time for your time zone. Before the meeting please put down any ideas you have for discussion below and sign it. The meeting will take place on the site's [[Tolkien Gateway:Chat|IRC]] channel.

===Proposed Meeting Time===

{|WIDTH="100%"
!PDT (PST + 1)
!MDT (MST + 1)
!CDT (CST + 1)
!EDT (EST + 1)
!BST (GMT + 1)
!CED (CET + 1)
!EED (EET +1)
|-
|align="center"|12pm
|align="center"|1pm
|align="center"|2pm
|align="center"|3pm
|align="center"|8pm
|align="center"|9pm
|align="center"|10pm
|}

==Ideas for Discussion==
*Discuss the [[Tolkien Gateway:Community Portal|Community Portal]], if anything should be added/changed etc. Also discuss it's importance for newcomers and regular users.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 15:24, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

*And for the newcomers: an introduction round (of all, ofc)? Who you are, where you're from, what you want to contribute... Also, since I've added so many TG-namespace articles to the category, weed it out: what's necessary and what's not. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 15:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

*Discuss Ederchil's nomination for adminship, and the sharing of responsibility on the site, as is suggested [[Tolkien Gateway:Projects|here]].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 15:14, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

*Discuss some sort of policy regarding GdT's The Hobbit. In December, casting (and the rumour around it) begins. Next year, photography. It's early, but a clear policy concerning the in/exclusion of rumours and leaked set info would be handy to have ready when Udûn breaks loose. (Note: can wait a couple of weeks if we're out of time). -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 14:30, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

*Discuss adding more [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Category:Pronounced_articles| pronounced articles], like what [[User:Ardamir|Ardamir]] has done.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 20:09, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
[[Category:Tolkien Gateway Meetings]]

A Gateway to Sindarin

2008-08-14T23:46:15Z

Quidon88: added linked to reviewers

{{book|
title=A Gateway to Sindarin|
image=[[Image:A Gateway to Sindarin.jpg|225px]]|
author=[[David Salo]]|
isbn=0874808006|
publisher=University of Utah Press|
date=October 2004|
format=Hardcover|
pages= 550|
amazon=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0874808006/ref=sr_11_1/102-6025778-4717761?%5Fencoding=UTF8|
amazonprice=$49.95
}}
Reproduces all extant [[Sindarin]] fragments from published sources - both the easily available ones such as [[The Lord of the Rings]] and the more obscure ones from linguistic journals such as [[Vinyar Tengwar]].

ISBN 0874808006 
Format: Hardcover, 438pp 
Pub. Date: October 2004 
Publisher: University of Utah Press 

==Reviews of Gateway to Sindarin==
*[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lambengolmor/message/760 Review] by [[Carl F. Hostetter]]
*[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lambengolmor/message/765 Review] by [[Patrick H. Wynne]]
*[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lambengolmor/message/780 Review] by Bertrand Bellet
*[http://www.phy.duke.edu/~trenk/elvish/salo_discussion.html Review] by Thorsten Renk
*[http://www.textkit.com/0_0874808006.html Review] by Jessica Levai
*[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0874808006/ref=dp_nav_0/002-5250466-0800048?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=507846&s=books Customer Reviews at Amazon.com]

[[Category:Books]]

User:Quidon88

2008-08-14T23:24:56Z

Quidon88: /* Other Media */ added BBC Radio Adaptation

{{quote|I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.|[[Bilbo Baggins]]}} (My feelings of Tolkien Gateway, and also happens to be the motto of my high school graduating class.)
{{men infobox
|image=
|name=Quidon88
|othernames=[[Quenya|Q:]] Ambartur
|birth=April 22, 1988
|death=?
|race=Men
|gender=Male
|height=5'11''
|hair=Brown
|eyes=Blue
}}

== About me ==
An average nerd, I have read all of the more well-known [[Tolkien]] works, though nobody told me about them until [[Peter Jackson's The Fellowship of the Ring]] was getting made. I have thumbed through the [[The History of Middle-earth]] series, and am soon going to be adding them to my collection. I was a Star Wars fan first, but I like to think Tolkien's works are more scholarly, and spend much more time editing this encyclopedia then [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page| Wookieepedia], which is how I found this place.

== My Name ==
Kind of pompous of me to discuss, I know, but I would like to get rid of any confusion. I started out with Quidon88, a conglomeration of my favorite Star Wars character [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Qui-gon_jinn| Qui-Gon Jinn], a segment of my true name Don, and my birth year, 1988. That name i chose many years ago, and I always felt satisfied with it. Now though, I feel it is a bit juvenile, and have since taken on the moniker of [[Ambartur]], the approximate translation of my true name into [[Quenya]].

== My Projects ==
As most of the grunt work has been completed by other more knowledgeable contributors, I tend to go things at random. But here is a list of things I've had a big impact on, I would say.
*[[The Children of Húrin Audiobook]]
*Adding infoboxes and images, where I can, to actors and actresses
* [[Games]]- not as scholarly, as say, pronounced articles[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Category:Pronounced_articles], but I help where I can.
== My Library ==
Since this is a Tolkien encyclopedia, I will refrain from adding my extensive Star Wars library. Sorry, I dont have ISBN's of these, I guess Im just not as committed as others[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/User:Hyarion/Collection/Books]. And I will add to this also, a list of video games of which I've worn the discs out of.
===Books===
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''
* ''[[The Return of the King]]''
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''
* ''[[The Children of Húrin]]''
* ''[[The New Tolkien Companion]]'' by [[J.E.A. Tyler]]
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''
===Video===
*[[Rankin/Bass' The Hobbit]]
*[[Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings]]
*[[Rankin/Bass' The Return of the King]]
*[[The Fellowship of the Ring Extended Edition]]
*[[The Two Towers Extended Edition]]
*[[The Return of the King Extended Edition]]
===Other Media===
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)]]''
* ''[[The Children of Húrin Audiobook]]''
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring Soundtrack]]''
* ''[[The Two Towers Soundtrack]]''
* ''[[The Return of the King Soundtrack]]''
*[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)]]
*[[Vivendi's The Fellowship of the Ring (game)]]
*[[EA's The Two Towers]]
*[[EA's The Third Age]]
{{user lore-2}}
<center>
{{Special:Editcount/Quidon88/Edits}}
</center>
</td></tr></table>
</td>
[[Category:IRC users|Quidon88]]

James Grout

2008-08-14T04:48:59Z

Quidon88: increased pic size

{{actor
| image=[[Image:James Grout.gif|250px]]
| name=James Grout
| lifetime=[[October 22]], [[1927]]
| played=[[Barliman Butterbur]]
| film=[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)]]
| played2=[[Nokes]]
| film2=[[Tales from the Perilous Realm (1992 radio series)]]
| imdb=[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0343942/ Profile]
|}}

Tony Award-nominated British actor '''James Grout''' (born [[1927]]) voiced the part of [[Barliman Butterbur]] in the [[1981]] [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|radio series]] of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', and [[Nokes]] in the episode "Smith of Wootton Major" of the [[1992]] [[Tales from the Perilous Realm (1992 radio series)|radio series]] of ''[[Tales from the Perilous Realm]]''.

== External Links ==
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Grout Wikipedia Profile]

[[Category:Actors and actresses|Grout, James]]

Talk:Dwarf realms

2008-08-14T04:01:41Z

Quidon88:

Add [[Amon Rudh]] to this?--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 00:01, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Amon Rûdh

2008-08-14T04:01:09Z

Quidon88: Category Question

Add to Cat.Dwarven Realms?--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 00:01, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Saelon

2008-08-13T23:03:56Z

Quidon88:

'''''Saelon''''' is one of the main characters in ''[[The New Shadow]]'' by ''[[Tolkien]]'', the other being [[Borlas]].

Saelon was caught by Borlas many years before the [[The New Shadow]] tale is set when he was stealing an apple in Borlas' garden. Borlas' anger and description of Saelon's behaviour as doing ''orc's work'' struck in to Saelon's heart - he felt deeply agrieved and held this as a deep grudge.

Some years later, Borlas and Saelon are sat in the garden across from [[Minas Tirith]]. After Borlas describes the [[Dark Tree]], it is Saelon who later mentions that there are men who have grown ''under the shadow'' in recent times and whispers the name [[Herumor (The New Shadow)|Herumor]] to Borlas (the possible leader of a rebellious faction in Gondor).

Saelon leaves to return to Borlas under the cover of darkness, when he will clad in black. He did not state where he was then to head but left the invitation for Borlas if he too is robbed in black.

[[Category: Gondorians]]

Heru

2008-08-13T23:01:33Z

Quidon88:

'''''heru''''' or '''''hér''''' means "lord" in [[Quenya]]. Compare with ''[[hîr]]'' in [[Sindarin]].

Examples:
* [[Ciryaher]] - "Ship Lord", an alternative name for [[Hyarmendacil I]], the fifteenth king of Gondor
* [[Herumor (Black Númenórean)|Herumor]] - "Black Lord", name of a Black Númenórean
* Herunúmen - "Lord of the West", the Quenya name for [[Ar-Adûnakhôr]]
* [[Ondoher]] - "Stone Lord", the thirty-first [[King of Gondor|king]] of [[Gondor]]
* [[Ostoher]] - "Fortress Lord", the seventh king of Gondor

==See Also==
* [[aran]]
* [[hîr]]
* [[tar]]

== References ==
* ''[[The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-earth]]'' by [[Ruth S. Noel]]
* [http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/qlist.htm Quenya Corpus Wordlist] edited by [[Helge Kåre Fauskanger]]

[[Category: Quenya words]]

Nazgûl

2008-08-13T22:57:26Z

Quidon88:

{{race
|image=[[Image:Diego Iaconfcic - Black Riders.jpg|300px]]
|name=Nazgûl
|dominions=[[Angmar]], [[Dol Guldur]], [[Minas Morgul]]
|languages=[[Black Speech]], [[Westron]]
|height=Man-high
|length=
|skincolor=
|haircolor=
|feathers=
|distinctions=Without physical form
|lifespan=Indefinite
|members=[[Witch-king of Angmar]], [[Khamûl]]
}}

<center>{{quote| 'They come from [[Mordor]],' said [[Aragorn II|Strider]] in a low voice. 'From Mordor, [[Barliman Butterbur|Barliman]], if that means anything to you.' |''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', [[Strider (chapter)|Strider]]}}</center>
The '''Nazgûl''' ([[Black Speech]]: '''Ringwraiths''', sometimes written '''''Ring-wraiths'''''), also known as the '''Nine Riders''' or '''Black Riders''' (or simply '''the Nine'''), are evil servants of [[Sauron]] in [[Middle-earth]]. The rarely used [[Quenya]] name for them is '''''Úlairi'''''. The book refers to the Nazgûl as "his [Sauron's] most terrible servants."

== History ==
The nine Nazgûl arose as Sauron's most powerful servants in the [[Second Age]] of Middle-earth. It is said that three of the Nine were lords of [[Númenor]] corrupted by Sauron. They were all powerful mortal [[Men]] to whom Sauron gave nine [[Rings of Power]]. These proved to be their undoing:
{{quote|Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their undoing. They had, as it seemed, unending life, yet life became unendurable to them. They could walk, if they would, unseen by all eyes in this world beneath the sun, and they could see things in worlds invisible to mortal men; but too often they beheld only the phantoms and delusions of Sauron. And one by one, sooner or later, according to their native strength and to the good or evil of their wills in the beginning, they fell under the thralldom of the ring that they bore and of the domination of the One which was Sauron's. And they became forever invisible save to him that wore the Ruling Ring, and they entered into the realm of shadows. The Nazgûl were they, the Ringwraiths, the Enemy's most terrible servants; darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.|''[[The Silmarillion]]'', "[[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]"}}

[[Image:John Howe - Nazgul.jpg|thumb|left|''Nazgûl'' by [[John Howe]]]]
For many years the bearers used the rings to gain great wealth, prestige and power. The corrupting effect of the rings caused their bodily forms to fade over time until they had become wraiths entirely. Given form only through the attire of black cloaks and hauberks of silver mail, their original form was completely gone and invisible to mortal eyes. Their hypnotic eyes could be plainly distinguished from their dark clothing, and in a rage they appeared in a hellish fire. Untouchable to mortal men (unless blessed by weapons or tools of the ancient [[Elves]] of the [[First Age]] or by the [[Dunedain]], such as the barrow-blade used by [[Merry]] on the [[Witch-king of Angmar]]), they had many weapons, which included long swords of steel and flame, daggers with venomous properties, and black maces of great strength.

Their arsenal of deadly armaments was not confined to physical means; they also had seemingly magical weapons of devastating power. They were surrounded by an aura of terror, which affected all living creatures; their "breath" (called the ''[[Black Breath]]'') was poisonous, and their cries caused terror and despair in all who heard them. Some of the Nazgûl appear to have been accomplished sorcerers and used magic to devastating effect. According to Tolkien, though, it was the fear they inspired that was the chief danger:
{{quote|They have no great physical power against the fearless," he wrote, "but what they have, and the fear that they inspire, is enormously increased in darkness|''[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]''}}

The Nazgûl first appeared around 2251 of the [[Second Age]] and were soon established as Sauron's principal servants. They were dispersed after the first overthrow of Sauron in 3441 at the hands of the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]], but their survival was nonetheless assured while the [[One Ring]] persisted. They re-emerged around 1300 of the [[Third Age]], when the Lord of the Nazgûl, the [[Witch-king of Angmar]], led Sauron's forces against the human kingdom of [[Arnor]]. He was eventually defeated in battle in 1975 and returned to [[Mordor]], gathering the other Nazgûl in preparation for the return of Sauron to that realm. In 2000, they besieged [[Minas Ithil]] and captured it after a two-year siege. The city thereafter became the stronghold of the Nazgûl, from where they directed the rebuilding of Sauron's armies, also acquiring a [[palantíri|palantír]] for the Dark Lord.

In 2942 Sauron returned to Mordor and declared himself openly in 2951. Two or three of the Nazgûl were sent to his fortress at [[Dol Guldur]] to garrison that outpost.

In 3017, near the beginning of the story told in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', Sauron commanded the Ringwraiths to recover the [[One Ring]] of Power from "Baggins of the Shire". Disguised as horse riders clad in black (hence the term ''Black Riders''), they sought out [[Bilbo Baggins]] who, as [[Gollum]] had revealed, had the One Ring in his possession.

[[Image:Ted_Nasmith_-_The_Nazgûl.jpg|right|thumb|200px|''The Nazgûl'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]
The Nazgûl at this point were dependent on their black horses (stolen from [[Rohan]]) for transportation. When they were swept away by the waters of the river [[Bruinen]], their horses were killed. The Ringwraiths were forced to return to Mordor to regroup. They reappeared later mounted on [[Fell beasts|flying creatures]], at which point they were referred to as '''Winged Nazgûl'''.

By the conclusion of the [[War of the Ring]], all of the Nine Nazgûl were destroyed. The [[Witch-king_of_Angmar|Lord of the Nazgûl]] himself was slain by [[Éowyn]], the niece of King [[Théoden]] (with help from [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]], known as "The Magnificent" thereafter) during the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]. The remaining eight Ringwraiths attacked the Army of the West during the last battle at the [[Black Gate]]. However, when [[Frodo Baggins]] put on the ring in the fires of [[Mount Doom]], Sauron ordered the eight remaining Nazgûl to fly with all possible speed to Mount Doom to intercept Frodo. They arrived too late, with the Ring falling into the fire along with the hapless Gollum. The Nazgûl were caught in the firestorm of the erupting mountain and were destroyed.

== Identities ==

Only a few of the Nazgûl are named or identified individually in Tolkien's works. Their leader was the [[Witch-king of Angmar]], and his second in command was named [[Khamûl]]. At least three of them were of [[Black Númenóreans|Black Númenórean]] race. Khamûl was a lord of [[Easterlings]], and was the only Nazgûl known by his name, although [[Gothmog, Lieutenant of Morgul]], may have been a Nazgûl. Tolkien fans also speculate that either [[Herumor (Black Númenórean)|Herumor]] or [[Fuinur]], or both, became Nazgûl. They were renegade Númenóreans who rose to great power among the Haradrim and it is highly likely that Sauron would have wanted them as Ringwraiths.

== Powers and Abilities ==

The Nazgûl existed mostly in the wraith world (the [[Unseen]]), making them extremely difficult to harm. Ordinary weapons would not hurt them, and even weapons of [[Númenórean]] manufacture would be destroyed if they passed through the wraith forms of the Nazgûl. They could not, however, interact normally with the material world (the [[Seen]]): they needed garments and weapons provided by Sauron to give them form. Consequently, they could be defeated by attacks that destroyed their disguises, forcing them to return to [[Sauron]] to receive new ones.

The Nazgûl spread terror in mortal creatures merely by their presence. Only specially trained horses or the [[fell beasts]] of [[Mordor]] could bear them. They caused panic and despair in their enemies simply by flying overhead, and only individuals of great courage could face them in combat.

They were also poisonous to mortal beings, causing a condition known as the [[Black Breath]]. Merely being in the vicinity of one of them could cause disorientation and illness. Intense exposure could be lethal.

The Nazgûl had poor vision in the material world, but they were acutely aware of the beings with a presence in the wraith world, like the wearer of the [[One Ring]] and certain elves. Anyone who could see into the wraith world could see the Nazgûl as they had appeared in their mortal lives.

The [[Witch King]] could also affect matter with his voice, shattering the dagger that Frodo had gotten in the [[Barrow Downs]] and weakening the gates of [[Minas Tirith]]. Whether other Nazgûl could perform similar feats is unknown.

== Other Titles ==
* The Ringwraiths
* The Black Riders
* The Fell Riders
* The Nine Riders
* The Black Wings
* The Shadows
* The Nine
* The Nine Servants of the Lord of the Rings
* The Shriekers
* [[Úlairi]] ([[Quenya]])

== Portrayal in Adaptations ==
The early [[Middle-earth Role Playing]] games name the eight, other than Khamûl, ''Er-Murazor'' (the [[Witch-king of Angmar|Witch-king]], of Númenórean race), ''Dwar'', ''Ji Indur'', ''Akhorahil'', ''Hoarmurath'' (Númenórean), ''Adunaphel'' (female Númenórean), ''Ren'' and ''Uvatha'', but none of these names are considered [[canon]]. It is particularly unlikely, in the context of the books, that any of the Nazgûl would have been female. Nor is it clear who were of Númenórean descent: only Khamûl's origin is given with certainty, and he was an Easterling. While the Witch-king is by many thought of as a Númenórean lord, this cannot be confirmed by any statement in Tolkien's writings.

==Trivia==
* The term ''Nazgûl'' has been used to refer to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM IBM's] cadre of lawyers, with whom it has been said that IBM can blacken the sky.
* Nâzgul is a girl's name of Persian origin, adopted in various Middle-eastern languages, meaning "Shy rose" or "delicate flower".
* George R. R. Martin's novel The Armageddon Rag is about a fictional rock band named the Nazgûl.
* Nazgûl is also the name of an Orkish black metal band from Italy, who sing The Lord of the Rings-inspired songs in Latin.
* Nazgûl is also the name of a pagan black metal band from Spain. Commonly mistaken for the Italian Orkish black metal band and the Norwegian band of the same name.
* The bird-like Ra'zac from Christopher Paolini's Inheritance Trilogy are heavily inspired by the steeds of the Nazgûl, particularly their breath, which acts as a mind-numbing drug of sorts.
* In Led Zeppelin's "The Battle of Evermore" (from Led Zeppelin IV) there is an allusion to a Ringwraith. One of the lyrics reads, "The drums will shake the castle walls, the ringwraiths ride in black, ride on."
* The Garo from The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask somewhat resemble the Ringwraiths. The Garo are undead "shells" that are basically robes. The Garo spy on the undead Ikana. The four Poes that haunt the Arbiter's Grounds in Twilight Princess also resemble them.
* Nazgûl appear as enemies in the roguelike computer game NetHack. They breathe a gas that can put your character to sleep, and carry cursed rings that bestow invisibility.

==References==
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', passim.
* ''[[The Two Towers]]'', passim.
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'', passim.
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix A]]
* ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix B]]
* ''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', [[The Hunt for the Ring]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Akallabêth]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]], [[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]"
* ''[[The Treason of Isengard]]'', [[The Great River (HoMe)|The Great River]]
* ''[[The War of the Ring]]'', [[The Passage of the Marshes (HoMe)|The Passage of the Marshes]]
* ''[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]'', [[Letter 156|#156]], [[Letter 210|#210]], [[Letter 212|#212]], [[Letter 246|#246]], [[Letter 297|#297]]
* [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], ''[[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings]]'', in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]]'' (edited by [[Wayne G. Hammond|W. G. Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull|C. Scull]])

== See Also ==
* '''[[:Category:Images of Nazgûl|Images of Nazgûl]]'''
* the [[Witch-King of Angmar]]
* [[Khamûl]]

[[Category:Creatures]]
[[Category:Nazgûl]]
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]

Umbar

2008-08-13T22:50:22Z

Quidon88:

{{cleanup}}
The '''Haven of Umbar''' was a great haven to the far south of [[Gondor]] in [[Middle-earth]].

"Umbar" was a name of unknown meaning given to the area by its original inhabitants. The Númenóreans adopted the name, probably aware of the fact that ''[[umbar]]'' was the [[Quenya]] word for 'fate'.

The great cape and land-locked firth of Umbar south of the [[Bay of Belfalas]] formed a natural harbour of enclosing rock, but the "great fortress of [[Númenor]]" that was located within it was not built until Second Age 2280. It was only by this time that [[Sauron]] had dared to threaten Númenor;
{{quote|...the strength of his terror and mastery over men had grown exceedingly great, he began to assail the strong places of the Numenoreans upon the shores of the sea.|''[[Akallabêth]]'' from ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

Like the earlier [[Lond Daer Ened|New Haven]] in [[Enedwaith]], and the later [[Pelargir]] on the [[Anduin]], Umbar became a base from which Númenórean influence spread over Middle-earth. It was at Umbar that the last king of Númenor, [[Ar-Pharazôn]] the Golden, landed in 3261, to challenge Sauron:
{{quote|The fleet came at last to that place that was called Umbar, where was a mighty haven that no hand had wrought. Empty and silent under a sickle moon was the land when the King of the Sea set foot upon the shore. For seven days he journeyed with banner and trumpet. Then he sent forth heralds, and he commanded Sauron to come before him and swear to him fealty.|''[[Akallabêth]]'' from ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

After the Downfall of Númenor 58 years later, Umbar remained in the hands of the Númenóreans, in essence a realm-in-exile alongside [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]]. But unlike these others, Umbar had been used by the [[King's Men]], who had turned to the worship of Melkor in the last days of Númenor. These "King's Men" were not friendly to the [[Elves]] or to their fellow Númenórean survivors who were allied to the elves, and became known as [[Black Númenóreans]].

Two Black Númenórean lords, [[Herumor (Black Númenórean)|Herumor]] and [[Fuinur]], were probably from Umbar, as at the end of [[Second Age]] they became very powerful amongst the [[Haradrim]], a neighbouring people. Their fate is unknown, but they likely shared Sauron's defeat at the hands of the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]].

The rulers of Umbar retained much influence over the [[Haradwaith]] well into [[Third Age]]. When not part of Gondor, its system of government was no doubt tyrannical, but it may also have been a duumvirate: Black Númenórean and Corsair Lords are paired when mentioned; Herumor/Fuinur for example, and later Angamaite/Sangahyando.

Gondor's power, however, eclipsed that of Umbar as the Third Age progressed, and in 933 Gondor's King [[Eärnil I]] captured Umbar in a surprise attack, although this was "at great cost."

For the following 500 years, Umbar was an important Gondorian city: not only a major sea-port, but as the site of the submission of Sauron to Ar-Pharazôn, and so served as a proud reminder of the might of the Dúnedain of old:
{{quote|on the highest hill of the headland above the Haven they [...] set a great white pillar as a monument. It was crowned with a globe of crystal that took the rays of the Sun and of the Moon and shone like a bright star that could be seen in clear weather even on the coasts of Gondor or far out upon the western sea.|"The Heirs of Elendil" from ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]''}}

Many Black Númenóreans had fled Umbar from the assault of [[Third Age]] 933, to their subjects in Near Harad, but 82 years later, in a vain attempt to recapture it,
{{quote|the Men of the Harad, led by the lords that had been driven from Umbar, came up with great power against that stronghold...|"Annals of the Kings and Rulers" from ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix A]]}}

This "great power" availed the Men Of Harad little, however, for despite investing and besieging the fortress of Umbar for 35 years, they failed to take it, as its supply was easily maintained, "because of the sea-power of Gondor." In 1050, the late King Earnil's son [[Ciryandil]],
{{quote|came down from the north by sea and by land, and crossing the [[River Harnen]] his armies utterly defeated the Men of the Harad...|"Annals of the Kings and Rulers" from ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix A]]}}

Gondorian possession of Umbar came to an abrupt end. In 1448, but not at the hands of an external foe. Following the disastrous [[Kin-strife]], the sons of [[Castamir|Castamir the Usurper]] arrived there with many men and most of the fleet of Gondor.
{{quote|There they made a refuge for all the enemies of the king, and a lordship independent of his crown. Umbar remained at war with Gondor for many lives of men...|"Annals of the Kings and Rulers" from ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix A]]}}

These men became known as the 'Corsairs of Umbar', and within two centuries became a major threat to Gondor. In 1634 Castamir's great-grandsons [[Angamaitë]] and [[Sangahyando]] raided [[Pelargir]], from Umbar, killing King [[Minardil]], but Gondor could not retaliate as it was ravaged by the [[Great Plague]]. Vengeance, if not swift, was certainly devastating: 78 years after Minardils death, his great-grand nephew succeeded in briefly recapturing Umbar, and even renamed himself [[Umbardacil]]. However,
{{quote|...in the new evils that soon befell Gondor Umbar was again lost, and fell into the hands of the Men Of Harad.|"Annals of the Kings and Rulers" from ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix A]]}}

Throughout the rest of The Third Age, Umbar was home a new generation of 'Corsairs of Umbar', who must have been closely related to the Haradrim, if not even merely Haradrim themselves. These new Corsairs were cruel slavers who often raided the coasts of [[Belfalas]] and [[Anfalas]] in Gondor: in 2746 for example, Amrothos, the 15th Prince of [[Dol Amroth]] fell defending Dol-en-Ernil against them.

In 2758 Umbar joined a massive co-ordinated attack with Men of the Harad and even of [[Dunland]], against Gondor and the new realm of [[Rohan]]:
{{quote|Three great fleets, long prepared, came up from Umbar and the Harad, and assailed the coasts of Gondor in great force; and the enemy made many landings, even as far north as the mouth of the Isen.|"Annals of the Kings and Rulers" from ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', [[Appendix A]]}}

In 2885, Umbar supported the Haradrim who claimed Harondor, although this had long "been a debatable land between the Corsairs and the Kings", and when Sauron declared himself openly in 2951, Umbar declared its alliegance to him, and the great monument commemorating Ar-Pharazôn's triumph at Umbar was thrown down.

Umbar's fleet was largely destroyed 29 years later, when [[Thorongil]] ([[Aragorn]] Elessar, as it later turned out) in the service of the [[Steward of Gondor]] [[Ecthelion II]] led a taskforce south and burned them, killing the [[Captain of the Haven]] in the process.

During the [[War of the Ring]], Umbar had not fully recovered from this, but could still send 50 "great ships" and smaller vessels "beyond count", to raid the coastlands of Gondor and draw off major forces from the defence of Minas Tirith. They were once again defeated by Aragorn, and the [[Army of the Dead]]. With the Fall of [[Barad-dûr]], Umbar, weakened and defeated, finally lost its sovereignty and submitted to the crown of King Elessar.

Umbar appeared on the bottom edge of the maps found in earlier editions of Lord of the Rings, but it is absent from modern editions, which regrettably map a slightly smaller area of Middle-earth.

[[Category:Cities]]
[[Category:Regions]]
[[Category:Realms]]
[[Category:Southern Lands]]
[[Category:Sieges]]

Harad

2008-08-13T22:48:16Z

Quidon88:

{{cleanup}}
[[Image:WAR-ICONS Harad.jpg|150px|right]]
'''Harad''' ("South" in [[Sindarin]]; the name in [[Quenya]] is '''Hyarmen''') was the name for the immense lands south of [[Gondor]] and [[Mordor]]. The [[Men]] of Harad were called [[Haradrim]] ("Southern-host").

Harad's tribes were divided—at least in the minds of the men of northwestern Middle-earth—into those of Near and Far Harad, although there were many tribes of the Haradrim, often mutually hostile. Those of Near Harad were brown-skinned, with black hair and dark eyes, whereas the people of Far Harad had black skin.

From the latter part of the [[Second Age]], the Men of Harad were dominated by the Númenóreans, as were many other peoples whose lands included a coastline. Shortly before the [[War of the Last Alliance]], two Númenórean lords, named as [[Herumor (Black Númenórean)|Herumor]] and [[Fuinur]], "rose to great power amongst the Haradrim", but their ultimate fate is not recorded.

For many centuries of the [[Third Age]], many Haradrim were still ruled by [[Black Númenóreans|Black Númenórean]] Lords, or further north by the Kings of [[Gondor]], but ultimately, the Harad fell under the influence of [[Mordor]], for much of the Age.

Much of Far Harad was a jungle, although there also was a desert. In the [[Great Forest of the South]] in Far Harad lived the gigantic mammoth-like animals known as [[Oliphaunts]], which were used by the Haradrim as moving war towers.

Near Harad later formed an alliance—or maybe even a coalition of some sort—with the [[Corsairs of Umbar]], and was involved in a series of continual battles with Gondor over ''South Gondor'' or [[Harondor]]. Anciently its northern border was held to be the river Harnen, but by the time of the [[War of the Ring]] all the land south of the river ''Poros'' was under the influence of the Haradrim.

One of the leaders of the Haradrim at the time of the War of the Ring bore the standard of the [[Serpent Lord]], and was slain by King [[Theoden]] of [[Rohan]] at the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]] in Third Age 3019.

After the revival of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] of Gondor and [[Arnor]] in the [[Fourth Age]], much of the Harad may have again fallen under the rule of Gondor.

To the east of Near Harad lay the land of [[Khand]].

[[Category:Realms]]
[[Category:Regions]]
[[Category:Southern Lands]]

Fuinur

2008-08-13T22:42:51Z

Quidon88:

{{numenorean
| image=
| name=Fuinur
| othernames=
| birth=Late [[Second Age]]
| rule=
| death=
| age=
| party=[[Black Númenóreans]]
| language=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=
|}}
'''Fuinur''' was a [[Man]] of [[Númenor]] who fell under the influence of [[Sauron]] during the time the [[Dark Lord]] dwelt on that island. Fuinur sailed east to [[Middle-earth]], apparently with a companion named [[Herumor (Black Númenórean)|Herumor]], and settled in the southern region known as the [[Harad]]. These two became lords in [[Middle-earth]] who served Sauron after he returned to [[Mordor]], and held power over the [[Haradrim]].

==Etymology==
{{Pronounce|Fuinur.mp3|Ardamir}}
''Fuinur'' apparently means "Man of Shadow" in [[Quenya]] (from ''[[fuinë]]'', 'shadow', and ''[[-ur]]'', a masculine suffix).

[[Category:Númenóreans]]
[[Category:Black Númenóreans]]
[[de:Fuinur]]
[[fi:Fuinur]]

Black Númenóreans

2008-08-13T22:40:28Z

Quidon88:

{{Rewrite}}
{{race
|image=[[Image:John Howe - Black Numenorean.jpg|300px]]
|name=Black Númenóreans
|dominions=[[Umbar]], other southern lands
|languages=[[Adûnaic]]
|height=
|length=
|skincolor=
|haircolor=
|feathers=
|distinctions=Survivors of the [[Downfall of Númenor]], loyal to [[Sauron]]
|lifespan=
|members=[[Herumor (Black Númenórean)|Herumor]], [[Fuinur]], [[Berúthiel]], [[The Mouth of Sauron]]
|}}
The '''Black Númenóreans''' were originally among the survivors from the mightiest human kingdom that had yet been, [[Númenor]], which was destroyed by [[Eru]] in the late [[Second Age]].

As their power and knowledge had grown throughout the course of the Second Age, the Númenóreans had become increasingly preoccupied with the limits placed on their happiness—and eventually their power—by mortality, the purpose of which they began to question;
{{quote|But the fear of death grew ever darker upon them, and they delayed it by all means that they could; and they began to build great houses for their dead, while their wise men laboured unceasingly to discover if they might the secret of recalling life...|"[[Akallabêth]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

This growing wish to escape death, known as "the doom of Men", made most of the Númenoreans envious of the immortal [[Eldar]], who they had come to physically resemble. The Eldar sought ever to remind the men of Númenor however, that death was a gift of the One God, [[Ilúvatar]], to all men, and the will of Ilúvatar could not be gainsaid.

Nevertheless, after Second Age 2221, when Tar-Ancalimon became King of Númenor:
{{quote|...the people of Númenor became divided. On the one hand was the greater party, and they were called the [[King's Men]], and they grew proud and were estranged from the [[Valar]] and the Eldar.|"[[Akallabêth]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

The King's Men ultimately became vulnerable to the corruption of [[Sauron]], who, having arrived in Númenór:
{{quote|...naturally had the One Ring, and so very soon dominated the minds and wills of most of the Númenóreans.|''[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]'', No. 211}}

Eventually, in Númenor's last years, its powerful and elderly King [[Ar-Pharazôn]], who had become "frightened of old age" (Letters ~ No.156), was persuaded by Sauron that Ilúvatar was a lie invented by the Valar, and seduced him;
{{quote|...back to the worship of the Dark, and of Melkor the Lord thereof, at first in secret, but ere long openly and in the face of his people.|"[[Akallabêth]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

Within Númenor, the majority quickly followed suit, and this worship quickly passed across the ocean to most of Númenor's colonies in Middle-earth:
{{quote|The Men of Númenor were settled far and wide on the shores and seaward regions of the Great Lands, but for the most part they fell into evils and follies. Many became enamoured of the Darkness and the black arts...|"[[The Window on the West]]", ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

These "black arts" and "follies" were presumably the earliest culture traits of those who became known afterward as Black Númenóreans,
{{quote|...for in the days of the sojourn of Sauron in that land the hearts of well nigh all its people had been turned towards darkness. Therefore many of those who sailed east in that time and made fortresses and dwellings upon the coasts were already bent to his will...|"[[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

This worship of Melkor and the Dark marked the final, irrevocable division between its adherents and the "[[Faithful]]" Númenóreans, the ''[[Elendili]]'', who kept to their old faith in Ilúvatar, but these were a small minority;

For many centuries after the Downfall, some descendants of the "[[King's Men]]" held onto what became the most northerly and famous of their realms-in-exile, the [[Haven of Umbar]], although
{{quote|...because of the power of [[Gil-galad]] these renegades, lords both mighty and evil, for the most part took up their abodes in the southlands far away.|"[[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

Most of those few Númenóreans who had never envied the Eldar, and had always remained true to their belief in Ilúvatar, also survived the destruction of their homeland, and they established their own realms-in-exile north of Umbar, where previously had come
{{quote|...only the Faithful of Númenor, and many therefore of the folk of the coastlands in that region were in whole or in part akin to the Elf-friends and the people of [[Elendil]]...|"[[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

After founding [[Gondor]] and [[Arnor]] these self-styled "Faithful" Númenóreans saw their southern counterparts as renegades, calling them:
{{quote|...the Black Númenóreans; for they established their dwellings in Middle-earth during the years of Sauron's domination, and they worshipped him, being enamoured of evil knowledge.|"[[The Black Gate Opens]]", ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

The Black Númenóreans held a similiarly low opinion of 'The Faithful' and their descendants, as
{{quote|..they inherited without lessening their hatred of Gondor.|"Appendix A" of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

Two early Black Númenórean lords are named from the time of the late [[Second Age]]: [[Herumor (Black Númenórean)Herumor]] and [[Fuinur]]. Like all Black Númenóreans and 'King's Men' before them, Herumor and Fuinur desired power over men of other, lesser races, and they "rose to (great) power amongst the [[Haradrim]]", the peoples neighbouring Umbar. Their fate is unknown, but they likely shared Sauron's defeat at the hands of the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]].

The Black Númenórean style of governing was no doubt tyrannical, but may also have involved a tradition of duumviracy, at least in Umbar, whose lords are usually paired when mentioned; Herumor/Fuinur for example, were probably rulers of Umbar, as much later Angamaite/Sangahyando were. Whatever political system was in place, however, the Black Númenóreans did not govern effectively;
{{quote|...some were given over wholly to idleness and ease, and some fought amongst themselves, until they became conquered in their weakness by the wild men.|"[[The Window on the West]]", ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

The triumph of the Last Alliance marked the decline of the Black Númenórean race and the end of their racial superiority;
{{quote|After the fall of Sauron their race swiftly dwindled or became merged with the Men of Middle-earth...|"Appendix A" of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

Nevertheless, a Black Númenórean elite survived at least in Umbar for over a thousand years after Númenor's fall, maintaining much influence in [[Haradwaith]]. As late as Third Age 1015, for example, even after being exiled from their homeland for nearly a century
{{quote|...the Men of Harad, led by the lords that had been driven from Umbar, came up with great power against that stronghold...|"Appendix A" of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

The Black Númenóreans did not use [[Westron]], but probably retained their old tongue [[Adûnaic]], speaking a dialect of it. (In [[The Notion Club Papers]], part of ''[[Sauron Defeated]]'', Arundel Lowdham cited two descendants of classical Adûnaic. One of these must have been Westron, the other the tongue of the Black Númenóreans (Black Adûnaic?).

The Black Númenóreans are absent from recorded history after their defeat by [[Ciryaher]] in 1050, but a population of sorts must have survived somewhere at least until the end of the [[Third Age]], as [[The Mouth of Sauron]], who mocked the army of [[Aragorn|King Elessar]] in front of the [[Morannon]] was described both as a Black Númenórean and "Renegade", which is presumably the term used by the Free Peoples of that time to describe all folk of similiar ancestry.

In an interview Tolkien described [[Queen Berúthiel]], wife of Gondor's King [[Tarannon Falastur]], as "a black Númenórean". This was a loveless union, and was presumably a political accommodation: that such arrangements were possible implies the existence at that time of more Gondor-friendly Black Númenóreans than the much later Mouth of Sauron.

Three of the [[Ringwraiths]] can be considered among the first and most powerful Black Númenóreans, even though their origin predates Númenor's fall by about 1,000 years: they served Sauron, being enslaved to his will, having become so because of their lust for power or knowledge. One of which, [[Khamul]] was the only wraith to be named.

[[Category:Black Númenóreans]]
[[de:Schwarze Númenorer]]
[[fi:Mustat númenorilaiset]]

Black Númenóreans

2008-08-13T22:38:50Z

Quidon88: fixing disambig

{{Rewrite}}
{{race
|image=[[Image:John Howe - Black Numenorean.jpg|300px]]
|name=Black Númenóreans
|dominions=[[Umbar]], other southern lands
|languages=[[Adûnaic]]
|height=
|length=
|skincolor=
|haircolor=
|feathers=
|distinctions=Survivors of the [[Downfall of Númenor]], loyal to [[Sauron]]
|lifespan=
|members=[[Herumor (Black Númenórean)]], [[Fuinur]], [[Berúthiel]], [[The Mouth of Sauron]]
|}}
The '''Black Númenóreans''' were originally among the survivors from the mightiest human kingdom that had yet been, [[Númenor]], which was destroyed by [[Eru]] in the late [[Second Age]].

As their power and knowledge had grown throughout the course of the Second Age, the Númenóreans had become increasingly preoccupied with the limits placed on their happiness—and eventually their power—by mortality, the purpose of which they began to question;
{{quote|But the fear of death grew ever darker upon them, and they delayed it by all means that they could; and they began to build great houses for their dead, while their wise men laboured unceasingly to discover if they might the secret of recalling life...|"[[Akallabêth]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

This growing wish to escape death, known as "the doom of Men", made most of the Númenoreans envious of the immortal [[Eldar]], who they had come to physically resemble. The Eldar sought ever to remind the men of Númenor however, that death was a gift of the One God, [[Ilúvatar]], to all men, and the will of Ilúvatar could not be gainsaid.

Nevertheless, after Second Age 2221, when Tar-Ancalimon became King of Númenor:
{{quote|...the people of Númenor became divided. On the one hand was the greater party, and they were called the [[King's Men]], and they grew proud and were estranged from the [[Valar]] and the Eldar.|"[[Akallabêth]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

The King's Men ultimately became vulnerable to the corruption of [[Sauron]], who, having arrived in Númenór:
{{quote|...naturally had the One Ring, and so very soon dominated the minds and wills of most of the Númenóreans.|''[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]'', No. 211}}

Eventually, in Númenor's last years, its powerful and elderly King [[Ar-Pharazôn]], who had become "frightened of old age" (Letters ~ No.156), was persuaded by Sauron that Ilúvatar was a lie invented by the Valar, and seduced him;
{{quote|...back to the worship of the Dark, and of Melkor the Lord thereof, at first in secret, but ere long openly and in the face of his people.|"[[Akallabêth]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

Within Númenor, the majority quickly followed suit, and this worship quickly passed across the ocean to most of Númenor's colonies in Middle-earth:
{{quote|The Men of Númenor were settled far and wide on the shores and seaward regions of the Great Lands, but for the most part they fell into evils and follies. Many became enamoured of the Darkness and the black arts...|"[[The Window on the West]]", ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

These "black arts" and "follies" were presumably the earliest culture traits of those who became known afterward as Black Númenóreans,
{{quote|...for in the days of the sojourn of Sauron in that land the hearts of well nigh all its people had been turned towards darkness. Therefore many of those who sailed east in that time and made fortresses and dwellings upon the coasts were already bent to his will...|"[[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

This worship of Melkor and the Dark marked the final, irrevocable division between its adherents and the "[[Faithful]]" Númenóreans, the ''[[Elendili]]'', who kept to their old faith in Ilúvatar, but these were a small minority;

For many centuries after the Downfall, some descendants of the "[[King's Men]]" held onto what became the most northerly and famous of their realms-in-exile, the [[Haven of Umbar]], although
{{quote|...because of the power of [[Gil-galad]] these renegades, lords both mighty and evil, for the most part took up their abodes in the southlands far away.|"[[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

Most of those few Númenóreans who had never envied the Eldar, and had always remained true to their belief in Ilúvatar, also survived the destruction of their homeland, and they established their own realms-in-exile north of Umbar, where previously had come
{{quote|...only the Faithful of Númenor, and many therefore of the folk of the coastlands in that region were in whole or in part akin to the Elf-friends and the people of [[Elendil]]...|"[[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]", ''[[The Silmarillion]]''}}

After founding [[Gondor]] and [[Arnor]] these self-styled "Faithful" Númenóreans saw their southern counterparts as renegades, calling them:
{{quote|...the Black Númenóreans; for they established their dwellings in Middle-earth during the years of Sauron's domination, and they worshipped him, being enamoured of evil knowledge.|"[[The Black Gate Opens]]", ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

The Black Númenóreans held a similiarly low opinion of 'The Faithful' and their descendants, as
{{quote|..they inherited without lessening their hatred of Gondor.|"Appendix A" of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

Two early Black Númenórean lords are named from the time of the late [[Second Age]]: [[Herumor (Black Númenórean)Herumor]] and [[Fuinur]]. Like all Black Númenóreans and 'King's Men' before them, Herumor and Fuinur desired power over men of other, lesser races, and they "rose to (great) power amongst the [[Haradrim]]", the peoples neighbouring Umbar. Their fate is unknown, but they likely shared Sauron's defeat at the hands of the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]].

The Black Númenórean style of governing was no doubt tyrannical, but may also have involved a tradition of duumviracy, at least in Umbar, whose lords are usually paired when mentioned; Herumor/Fuinur for example, were probably rulers of Umbar, as much later Angamaite/Sangahyando were. Whatever political system was in place, however, the Black Númenóreans did not govern effectively;
{{quote|...some were given over wholly to idleness and ease, and some fought amongst themselves, until they became conquered in their weakness by the wild men.|"[[The Window on the West]]", ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

The triumph of the Last Alliance marked the decline of the Black Númenórean race and the end of their racial superiority;
{{quote|After the fall of Sauron their race swiftly dwindled or became merged with the Men of Middle-earth...|"Appendix A" of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

Nevertheless, a Black Númenórean elite survived at least in Umbar for over a thousand years after Númenor's fall, maintaining much influence in [[Haradwaith]]. As late as Third Age 1015, for example, even after being exiled from their homeland for nearly a century
{{quote|...the Men of Harad, led by the lords that had been driven from Umbar, came up with great power against that stronghold...|"Appendix A" of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''}}

The Black Númenóreans did not use [[Westron]], but probably retained their old tongue [[Adûnaic]], speaking a dialect of it. (In [[The Notion Club Papers]], part of ''[[Sauron Defeated]]'', Arundel Lowdham cited two descendants of classical Adûnaic. One of these must have been Westron, the other the tongue of the Black Númenóreans (Black Adûnaic?).

The Black Númenóreans are absent from recorded history after their defeat by [[Ciryaher]] in 1050, but a population of sorts must have survived somewhere at least until the end of the [[Third Age]], as [[The Mouth of Sauron]], who mocked the army of [[Aragorn|King Elessar]] in front of the [[Morannon]] was described both as a Black Númenórean and "Renegade", which is presumably the term used by the Free Peoples of that time to describe all folk of similiar ancestry.

In an interview Tolkien described [[Queen Berúthiel]], wife of Gondor's King [[Tarannon Falastur]], as "a black Númenórean". This was a loveless union, and was presumably a political accommodation: that such arrangements were possible implies the existence at that time of more Gondor-friendly Black Númenóreans than the much later Mouth of Sauron.

Three of the [[Ringwraiths]] can be considered among the first and most powerful Black Númenóreans, even though their origin predates Númenor's fall by about 1,000 years: they served Sauron, being enslaved to his will, having become so because of their lust for power or knowledge. One of which, [[Khamul]] was the only wraith to be named.

[[Category:Black Númenóreans]]
[[de:Schwarze Númenorer]]
[[fi:Mustat númenorilaiset]]

War of the Last Alliance

2008-08-13T22:36:00Z

Quidon88:

{{war
| previous=[[War of the Elves and Sauron]]
| next= [[War of the Ring]]
| image=[[Image:lastalliance-elves.jpg|275px]]
| name= War of the Last Alliance
| place= Mordor and lower Anduin region
| result= Victory for the Last Alliance, fall of Sauron, loss of the One Ring
| battles= [[Battle of Dagorlad]], [[Siege of Barad-dûr]]
| begin= [[Second Age 3429|S.A. 3429]]
| end= [[Second Age 3441|S.A. 3441]]
| side1= [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]], with more than 200,000 Men from [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], Elves from [[Lindon]], [[Mirkwood]], [[Rivendell]] and [[Lorien]], [[Dwarves]] from [[Khazad-dum]]
| side2= Forces of [[Sauron]], at least 500,000 Mordor [[Orcs]], [[Easterlings]], [[Haradrim]] and other creatures
| commanders1= [[Image:Gilgalad-forodrim_icon.gif]][[Gil-galad]]†
* [[Elrond]]
* [[Oropher]]†
* [[Amdír]]†
[[Image:Tree_icon2.jpg]] [[Elendil]]†
* [[Isildur]]
* [[Anárion]]†
| commanders2= [[Image:Sauron_cold_eye_icon.jpg]] [[Sauron]]
[[Image:WAR-ICONS_Harad.jpg|45px]] [[Herumor (Black Númenórean)]]
* [[Fuinur]]
| strength1= More than 200,000 Men from [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], Elves from [[Lindon]], [[Mirkwood]], [[Rivendell]] and [[Lorien]], and [[Dwarves]]
| strength2= At least 500,000 Mordor Orcs, [[Easterlings]], [[Haradrim]], [[Nazgûl]], and other creatures of Sauron|
|casual1=Thousands, innumerable|
|casual2=Nearly all Orcs, Men, and other creatures were killed|
|}}

The '''War of the Last Alliance''' was the war late in the [[Second Age]] in which the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]] marched against the fortress of [[Sauron]], [[Barad-dûr]] in [[Mordor]]. Against all hope, they were victorious, but when the [[One Ring]] was not destroyed, [[Sauron]] rose again during the long years of the [[Third Age]].

===Opening Stages===

[[Sauron]], hoping to attack the newly founded Númenórean exile states before they where solidly established, sent a task force under the [[Nazgûl]] to attack the city of [[Minas Ithil]], seat of [[Isildur]], conjoint ruler of the southern kingdom of Gondor. This attack, which occurred in S.A. 3429, surprised the southern [[Dúnedain]], burned the [[White Tree]] and forced them out of the city. [[Isildur]] escaped the city's fall, and journeyed to [[Arnor]] to seek Elendil's assistance. His brother, [[Anárion]], managed to hold a defensive line at [[Osgiliath]] and check Sauron's advance.

Isildur sailed to his father's capital of [[Annúminas]] in [[Arnor]], and described the military situation to [[Elendil|him]] in detail. After communicating with his ally [[Gil-galad]], [[High King of the Noldor]], the two High Kings decided to form a mighty combined force, known forever afterwards as the ''[[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]]''. Gil-galad marched eastward, leading a host of Elves along with [[Círdan]], Lord of the [[Falas]].1

[[Image:Lastalliance-men.jpg|250px|left|thumb|Dúnedain attack in Peter Jackson's ''Fellowship of the Ring'']]It was during this time that the great watchtower at [[Amon Sûl]] was built and manned. In 3431, this combined host rested at the Elven outpost of Rivendell, where they took counsel with [[Elrond|Lord Elrond]], who was Gil-galad's herald, and acted as his second-in-command in the coming campaign. After crossing the Misty Mountains, they were joined by Dwarves from [[Khazad-dûm]]. Elves from [[Greenwood the Great]], led by [[Oropher]] and his son [[Thranduil]], and Lothlorien Elves under [[Amdir]]. As this host proceeded down the [[Anduin]], they marched through desolate areas that had once been the [[Entwives|Entwives']] gardens. They, and probably the Entwives themselves, had been destroyed by [[Sauron]] to deprive Last Alliance forces of supplies.2

== The [[Battle of Dagorlad]] ==

[[Image:Elrond8.jpg|thumb|250px|[[Elrond]] leads the Elven forces]]

On the great plain near the [[Black Gate]], the forces of the Last Alliance at last confronted the black legions of Mordor. Some border units from Gondor joined the army as it gathered on the battlefield, but one group of Men proved faithless. These were the Men of White Mountains, who dishonored their oath to Isildur to battle Sauron at his side. In response, Isildur cursed them to wander the Paths of the Dead until their oath was fulfilled-- which it was only 3,000 years later under King Elessar of Reunited Kingdom.

During preliminary skirmishing, [[Oropher]] and his Elves charged forward into the numerous Orc forces and suffered heavy casualties, including Oropher himself. Amdir and his forces also were forced away from the main battle into the marshes just to the south, where he also fell along with half of his troops. This area became known afterwards as the [[Dead Marshes]], because of the thousands of bodies buried there. Sauron had many Men fighting for him, including legions of [[Haradrim]] led by [[Herumor (Black Númenórean)|Herumor]] and [[Fuinur]], [[Black Númenóreans]] who worshiped Sauron before the Downfall of Númenor.2

The great battle proceeded like this:

# The Elven host and Númenóreans led by Gil-galad and Elendil meet up with Anárion's Dúnedain of Gondor on the Dagorlad Plain.
# They advance across the Plain toward the Black Gate.
# A vast horde of Orcs, hundreds of thousands strong, emerges from the Gate and seethes toward the combined host of the Last Alliance. Battle commences.
# After many weeks of hard fighting, the superior might and discipline of the Alliance drive the Orcs through the gate.
# Many more of the retreating Orcs are slain, and they are driven up against Mount Doom itself.
# Continuous volleys of arrows from the protected rear ranks of the Alliance take their toll upon the Orcs. Victory is at hand.3

This battle raged for days and nights continuously. But the Númenóreans were tall and strong, and the High Elves still a mighty people. Slowly they whittled down the vast numbers of Orcs and pushed them back towards the [[Black Gate]].

== The [[Siege of Barad-dûr]] ==

The forces of the Last Alliance had forced their way through the Black Gate into Mordor itself. Victory seemed close, but no power short of the Valar could breach the [[Dark Tower]] by force. The siege went on year after year, from [[Second Age 3434|S.A 3434]] to [[Second Age 3441|S.A. 3441]]. Isildur's sons, [[Aratan]] and [[Ciryon]], were detached and sent to Cirith Ungol to guard against a breakout to the southwest, but his oldest son, Elendur served by his side till the end. Over these years there many skirmishes between Sauron and the besieging forces. [[Anárion]] was killed in [[Second Age 3440|S.A. 3440]] by a projectile thrown from the tower.
[[image:Isildur_ring.jpg|thumb|250px|Isildur seizes the [[One Ring]]]]

Now the final stage of the struggle began, as the Dark Lord came out onto the field. [[Sauron]] emerged from his tower and took the offensive. He advanced to the core of the Alliance to do battle with the Last Alliance commanders, on the plain of Gorgoroth. This was one of the great showdowns of all Middle Earth history-- Sauron with his mighty mace versus [[Elendil]] with his great sword [[Narsil]] and Gil-galad wielding the legendary spear [[Aiglos]]. Swinging his mace, he cut through the kings' bodyguard. Gil-galad and Elendil then attacked the Dark Lord, but in the fight all three were struck down and Elendil and Gil-galad were slain. Elendil's heir Isildur rushed to his side to take up the royal sword, but as [[Elendil]] fell down on it, he shattered the great blade into three pieces. As Sauron reached to seize [[Isildur]] as well, the heir swung the sword hilt-shard and cut the One Ring from Sauron's hand. Without his connection to the Ring, Sauron's spirit fled and vanished. The armies of Mordor were left dispirited and leaderless, and were soon routed and destroyed by the Alliance forces.4

== The Aftermath of the War ==

The Alliance pursued the Orcs, who were then in disarray, and killed them all. The Barad-dûr was leveled but its foundations remained behind. The thousands of dead Men and Elves were taken out of Mordor and buried in the Dagorlad Plain.
[[Image:Elrond25.jpg|thumb|250px|Elrond leads the way to the [[Crack of Doom]]]]
While he had captured the [[One Ring]], Isildur refused Elrond and Círdan's entreaties that he destroy it by casting it into the [[Crack of Doom]]. The result of this was that while [[Sauron]] was defeated and cast down, his spirit was not destroyed. He hid himself in the dark lands east of Mordor, and slowly rebuilt his power. The Nine ([[Nazgûl]]) also bided their time for the day when he would rise again. The survivors of the Men who served him returned home and continued to trouble Gondor for much of the Third Age. These Men eventually grew to become such invaders as the [[Balchoth]] and the [[Wainriders]].

While the Orc armies of Sauron had been well nigh destroyed in the War, scattered groups of them survived. In the Last Alliance, the casualties had been heavy. [[Elendil]] and [[Anárion]] were gone, and [[Gil-galad]], last [[High King of the Noldor]], was no more. [[Arnor]] took grievous losses, and suffered from a decline in population. It never really recovered as a major power, and broke into three pieces some centuries later. [[Gondor]] suffered less heavily, but also experienced civil strife in the Third Age. [[Isildur]], the new [[Kings of Arnor|High King of Arnor]], perished only two years later in the [[Disaster of the Gladden Fields]], along with his three older sons. They were ambushed by an Orc task force operating near the River Anduin. Much was lost, but [[Sauron]] was suppressed-- for a while.

==See also==

* '''[[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]]''' (political information)

== References ==

# ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', "[[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]"
# ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', "[[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]"
# ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Weapons and Warfare]]''
# ''[[The Return of the King]]''
# ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', "[[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]"

[[Category:Second Age]]
[[Category:Conflicts of the Second Age]]
[[Category:Sieges]]
[[Category:Wars and Battles]]

Dee Bradley Baker

2008-08-13T22:21:35Z

Quidon88: added infobox

{{actor
| image=
| name=Dee Bradley Baker
| lifetime=[[August 31]], [[1962]]
| played=[[Orcs]], cattle
| film=''[[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth]]'' and ''[[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king]]''
| played2=[[Gollum]], Orcs
| film2=''[[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II]]''
| imdb=[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0048389/ Profile]
|}}
'''Dee Bradley Baker''' (1962) is the go-to-guy when it comes to animal sounds. He is one of the most versatile and requested actors in Los Angeles.

==Roles==
* [[2006]]: ''[[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king]]'' - [[Orcs]], cattle
* [[2006]]: ''[[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'' - [[Gollum]], orcs
* [[2004]]: ''[[EA's The Battle for Middle-earth]]'' - Orcs, cattle
* [[2003]]: ''[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|Sierra's The Hobbit]]'' - Additional voices

==Additional==
According to his website, he also voiced Gollum in "Lord of the Rings: The Hobbit" by [[Sierra Entertainment]]. It is unknown to what game he refers, and [[Daran Norris]] was credited as Gollum in the 2003 Sierra game.

==External links==
* '''[http://www.deebaker.com/ Official website]'''
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Bradley_Baker Wikipedia profile]
* [http://voicechasers.com/database/showactor.php?actorid=1077 Voice Chasers profile]
[[Category:Actors and actresses|Baker, Dee Bradley]]

Lefnui

2008-08-11T21:47:23Z

Quidon88:

'''Lefnui''' was the westernmost of the many rivers of southern [[Gondor]], the Lefnui rose in the far west of the [[White Mountains]]. It followed an erratic course through the lands west of the hills of [[Pinnath Gelin]], until it emptied into the [[Bay of Belfalas]] through a long narrow firth. It played little part in history, though it was remembered by the [[Men]] of [[Rohan]]. When the [[Dunlendings]] invaded Rohan in [[Third Age 2758|T.A. 2758]], they were aided by Gondor's enemies from the south. These sea-going marauders landed at Lefnui's mouth on their mission to overrun and destroy the [[Rohirrim]], though they would eventually be defeated.

[[Category:Rivers]]
[[Category:Gondor]]

Michael Hordern

2008-08-09T21:55:53Z

Quidon88: added infobox

{{actor
| image=[[Image:Michael Hordern.jpg|250px]]
| name=Michael Hordern
| lifetime=[[October 3]], [[1911]] - [[May 2]], [[1995]]
| played=[[Gandalf]]
| film=[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)]]
| played2=
| film2=
| imdb=[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0394588/ Profile]
|}}
'''Sir Michael Murray Hordern''' (1911 - 1995) was a British actor. He was the voice of [[Gandalf]] in [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|The Lord of the Rings 1981 radio series]] broadcasted on the BBC 4. He also voiced [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] in the radio series of ''[[Tales from the Perilous Realm (radio series)|Tales from the Perilous Realm]]'', and narrated an abridged reading of ''[[The Hobbit]]''.

==Quotes==
{{quote|As for Gandalf, Michael Hordern - if the truth were told - never entirely understood what was going on! He was, for example, genuinely perplexed by the wizard's seeming demise in Moria during Episode 8, and asked [[Jane Morgan]] whether his agent had been wrong about the number of episodes for which he was required! When told that he would be resurrected in Episode 12, he simply grunted: 'Splendid! Splendid!' and shambled away.|[[Brian Sibley]], [http://briansibleytheworks.blogspot.com/2008/01/this-page-is-still-under-construction_23.html The Ring Goes Ever On].}}
==External links==
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hordern Wikipedia profile]
[[Category:Actors and actresses|Hordern, Michael]]
[[Category:Narrators|Hordern, Michael]]

Éomer

2008-08-09T20:47:18Z

Quidon88: added link, added clean up template

{{cleanup}}
{{rohirrim infobox
| image=[[Image:John Howe - Eomer.jpg|250px]]
| name=Éomer
| othernames= Éomer Éadig
| position=[[King of Rohan]]
| noinline=18
| birth= [[Third Age 2991]]
| rule= [[Third Age 3019]] - [[Fourth Age 63]]
| death= [[Fourth Age 63]], aged 93 years
| gender=Male
| description=6' 6" tall, strong, dark blond hair
| parentage=[[Éomund]] and [[Théodwyn]]
| spouse=[[Lothíriel]]
| children=[[Elfwine]]
|}}
'''Éomer''' was the eighteenth [[Kings of Rohan|King of Rohan]], and first of the Third Line. His name is likely derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "eoh" ("war-horse"), and possibly "mēre", ("grand, excellent, famous"). In a note written well after the initial publication of ''The Lord of the Rings'', Tolkien gave Éomer's height as 6 feet 6 inches tall ("of like height with [[Aragorn]]").

Éomer, of the [[House of Eorl]], was the son of [[Théodwyn]], sister of King [[Théoden]] of [[Rohan]], and [[Éomund]], a Chief Marshal of the Riddermark. He had a sister [[Éowyn]]. After they were orphaned Théoden adopted them as his own children.

He was tall, strong and possessed of great passion and also was considered a valiant and splendid warrior and a discerning and decent man. Eomer became a great, wise and skilled warrior and rider.

Éomer was third [[Marshal of the Mark]], in command of the [[East-Mark]], and was a strong leader of [[Men]]. His [[Éored]] hunted down the [[Uruk-hai]] that had taken [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]] and [[Peregrin Took]] as they camped near [[Fangorn Forest]], slaying them all. He never saw the [[Hobbits]], as they fled during the battle. Afterwards he met Aragorn, [[Gimli]] and [[Legolas]] in the plains of Rohan, and he gave them two [[horses]].

Éomer returned to Edoras, and reported on meeting the Ranger and friends. However, he was arrested after threatening [[Gríma Wormtongue]] because of his advances on Éomer's sister.

He was set free when Théoden recovered from the influence of [[Saruman]] the White, and was with his king at the [[Battle of the Hornburg]], where he and his éored drove the [[Orcs]] and [[Dunlendings]] of Saruman from the walls of the [[Hornburg]] and into the [[Huorn]] forest, where they were killed.

Afterwards he rode with Théoden, Aragorn, and [[Gandalf]] to [[Isengard]], where they confronted a trapped Saruman. Éomer rode with his king to the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]], and fought bravely for Rohan and [[Gondor]].

In the year 3019 at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields Théoden was killed, and Éomer became his successor. He stayed long behind in [[Minas Tirith in Gondor|Minas Tirith]] to help Aragorn rebuild his kingdom, before returning home to be crowned king himself.

Éomer renewed the [[Oath of Eorl]] for Aragorn after Aragorn had been crowned King Elessar of the [[Reunited Kingdom]], and Éomer had been crowned King of Rohan, swearing everlasting friendship between Rohan and Gondor (and legalizing [[Cirion]]'s grant of [[Calenardhon]] to the [[Éothéod]].)

He became known as '''Éomer Éadig''', or "the Blessed", because during his reign Rohan recovered from the hurts of the War and became a rich and fruitful land again.

Éomer had met Princess [[Lothíriel]], daughter of Prince [[Imrahil]] of [[Dol Amroth]] during his stay in Gondor, and they were wed. She bore him a son [[Elfwine]] the Fair, who succeeded his father as the King of Rohan, after Éomer's death in the year [[Fourth Age]] 63.

Éomer's sword was called [[Gúthwinë]] (Old English ''battle-friend'').

== Portrayal in Adaptations ==
[[Image:Eomer from Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings.jpg|thumb|left|Éomer as portrayed in [[Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings]]]]
[[Image:Karl Urban as Eomer.jpg|thumb|[[Karl Urban]] as Éomer in [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]]]]
In [[Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings]] Éomer is pictured in the film and is crucial to the plot, but does not have any lines.

In [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]] Éomer is portrayed by [[New Zealand]] actor [[Karl Urban]].

In both Ralph Bakshi's animated film and the Peter Jackson's movie trilogy, Éomer is an outcast and renegade until he arrives at Helm's Deep, summoned by Gandalf. In this sense, his character has been combined with the character of [[Erkenbrand]], who is the one that Gandalf returns to [[Helm's Deep]] with in the book.

In the [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings|Peter Jackson's films]], Éomer is explicitly exiled by Gríma before meeting Aragorn (which the animated film only hints at). He is more prominent in the book than in these films, since they focus on Théoden and Éowyn more.

== See Also ==
* [[:Category:Images of Éomer|Images of Éomer]]
{{sequence
|prev=[[Théoden]]
|next=[[Elfwine]]
|list=18th [[King of Rohan]] <code>III</code> 3019 – <code>IV</code> 63
}}

[[Category:Rohirrim]]
[[Category:Rulers of Rohan]]
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]

East-mark

2008-08-09T20:41:02Z

Quidon88: fixed redlinks

One of the three military divisions of [[Rohan]], with the others being the [[West-mark]], and the King's Lands around [[Edoras]]. The East-mark was defined as those lands that lay east of the [[Entwash]] and [[Snowbourn]] rivers. In military matters, the command of the [[Men]] of the East-mark would be given to one of Rohan's Marshals of the Riddermark. At the time of the [[War of the Ring]] this was the [[Third Marshal of the Riddermark|Thrid Marshal]], the King's nephew [[Éomer]], who held his command at the ancient township of [[Aldburg]], the original capital of Rohan and the seat of his family.

[[Category:Regions]]
[[Category:Rohan]]

[[fi:Itämark]]

Salmar

2008-08-09T20:13:57Z

Quidon88:

'''Salmar''' made the [[Ulumúri]] for his lord [[Ulmo]], the great conches which produce the music of the sea.

In the index of [[The Silmarillion]] Salmar is described as a [[Maia]], but it is unknown whether that entry was written by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] or his son [[Christopher Tolkien]]. While there is no other text describing Salmar as one of the [[Maiar]] his status as a spirit who accompanied Ulmo but was not listed amongst the [[Valar]] would make that the logical conclusion.

== Other Versions of the Legendarium ==
In earlier conceptions of the legendarium (see: ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]'') Salmar is often called by the title '''Noldorin''', and sometimes '''Lirillo''', and was envisioned as a [[Valar|Vala]] in the service of [[Aulë]].

{{maiar}}

[[Category:Maiar]]

Tolkien Gateway:Meetings

2008-08-08T22:00:17Z

Quidon88:

'''Tolkien Gateway: Meetings''' is an attempt which hopes to bring editors of the encyclopedia into a chat either weekly or monthly or bi-weekly (heck or any increment of time) to discuss the progress as well as the future of the site. Meetings will take place on our IRC network and the times for the meetings has yet to be decided. For those unable to attend a meeting, they will be allowed to write down thoughts prior to the meeting which will be brought up by someone. Transcripts will also be available after the meeting for non-attendees to read.

==Suggested meeting periods==
''Sign your name under your preferred time period''
* Daily
* Every few days
* Weekly
** [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]
**{{User:KingAragorn/sig}}
**[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88/Ambartur]]
* Bi-weekly
* Monthly
* Bi-monthly
* Quarterly
* Yearly
* Never

Once we choose a time period we will then move on to choose the specific day to meet, and then the start and end time of the meeting.

==Connecting==
* Java 1
** http://tolkiengateway.net/java/
* Java 2
** http://tolkiengateway.net/java2/
* Java 3
** http://tolkiengateway.net/java3/

* IRC clients
** irc.tolkiengateway.net

'''For mIRC:''' /server -m irc.tolkiengateway.net 
'''For X-Chat:''' /newserver irc.tolkiengateway.net

Users will autojoin #TolkienGateway on connect, if it gets too loud in there we can move to another channel such as #TG-M.

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]

Forums:Meetings

2008-08-08T21:48:10Z

Quidon88: reply

<div style="background: #eee; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 5px">'''[[Main Page|Tolkien Gateway]] > [[Forum:Council|Council]] > {{PAGENAME}}'''</div> [[Category:Council]]

'''[[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings]]'''

In 2006, [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] suggested that the regular editors of this site meet on the IRC network at the same time to discuss the site. I think this is an excellent idea, especially considering the large amount of activity on the site at the moment. The only issue which we need to resolve is when to have these meetings, it's going to be difficult to have a time which everybody will be happy with. If you are interested in joining this meeting then please state so below, and most importantly please state the time zone you're in. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:07, 6 August 2008 (EDT)


*My free hours are not much but it's a good idea [[User:Sage|Sage]] 18:22, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

*I'd love to be in on this! I'm on the east coast of the US so EDT time zone. [[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:35, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

*I think weekends will be our best bet, I'm on Pacific Time. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 18:53, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

*I know I'm not around as much as I used to, but I will try to make it to meetings when I can. My time zone is central. --[[User:Dwarf Lord|Dwarf Lord]] 22:34, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

*I think it's a great idea. I haven't been around much on the IRC lately, since I had some lack of sleep issues: I only ever catch Hyarion between 20:00 and 23:00 (CET). A weekly meeting would be perfect, though perhaps a bit cabal-y. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 02:20, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

* Eastern European Time. Once per week (-end) works for me. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 03:59, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

* Seems like a reasonable idea to me. I use IRC chat sometimes, but you can't always find the person you're looking for. Weekends would work better for me, particularly Sat. night. I'm in the Eastern US time zone.--[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 10:58, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

*I use a computer in the business center of my apt. complex, and the lock the place down whenever they feel like it, so I am afraid until I get internet into my place, my attendance will be iffy. Im in Mountain Time by the way.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 17:48, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

Category talk:Images by Grant Gould

2008-08-07T03:29:46Z

Quidon88:

Purists, keep your weapons sheathed, but shouldnt we incorporate these images into the article of the characters they depict? Even if it is just in 'Portrays'? I'd be more than happy to do it, if anyone else agrees.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 23:29, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

John Bach

2008-08-07T03:04:32Z

Quidon88: added infobox

{{actor
| image=
| name=John Bach
| lifetime=[[June 5]], [[1946]]
| played=[[Madril]]
| film=[[Peter Jackson's The Two Towers]]
| played2=
| film2=
| imdb=[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0045324/ Profile]
|}}
'''John Bach''' (1946) is a Welsh-born actor. He played [[Madril]] in [[Peter Jackson's The Two Towers]].

His surname is pronounced "Baitch".

==External links==
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bach Wikipedia profile]

[[Category:Actors and actresses|Bach, John]]

Talk:Seers

2008-08-07T02:58:09Z

Quidon88:

Since there '''are''' multiple seers, should they be categorized?--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 02:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Just because there were no recorded Dwarves who made prophecies, should they be excluded? That is why I removed it from Category:Men, perhaps I was wrong.--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 22:58, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

Seers

2008-08-07T02:54:35Z

Quidon88:

A '''Seer''', or '''Prophet''', was one gifted with extreme foresight. Two are named in [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien's]] [[legendarium]]:

# [[Amnon]] of the [[First Age]], who predicted the [[Fall of Gondolin]]
# [[Malbeth]] of the mid-[[Third Age]], who predicted that [[Arvedui]] would be the last king of [[Arthedain]] and also forsaw the fate of the [[Dead Men|People of the Dead]].

Saeros

2008-08-07T02:49:44Z

Quidon88:

[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Saeros' Fatal Leap 2.jpg|thumb|''Saeros' Fatal Leap'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]
'''Saeros''' ([[Years of the Trees]] – [[First Age]] 484) was an Elf of the [[Nandor]] who went to dwell in [[Doriath]] at the court of King [[Thingol]] after the [[First Battle]]. When [[Túrin Turambar|Túrin]] came to Doriath as a fosterchild five centuries later, Saeros had become a councilor to the King, and was jealous that such honor should be given to a [[Man]].

When Túrin was seventeen, Saeros insulted him at a royal dinner, comparing the [[House of Hador|Men of Hithlum]] to animals. In his anger Túrin struck him with a goblet, injurying him. The next day Saeros ambushed Túrin in the woods, but was overcome. Túrin went on to strip him naked and told him to run back to [[Menegroth]] like an animal. While running in terror Saeros fell into a ravine and died. Túrin, fearing King Thingol's wrath, fled Doriath, calling himself ''[[Neithan]]'' ("The Wronged").

== Etymology ==
Saeros' name is difficult to translate, but might mean "Bitter Rain" in [[Sindarin]] (from ''[[saer]]'' = "bitter" and ''[[ross]]'' = "rain"). If "bitter" is the root word of his name, than ''Saeros'' is probably a epithet.

== Other Versions of the Legendarium ==
In early drafts of the [[legendarium]], Saeros was named '''Orgof'''. In the ''[[Grey Annals]]'' section of ''[[The War of the Jewels]]'', Orguf never confronts Túrin in the woods, but is killed at the dinner party by the goblet Túrin threw at him.

== See Also ==
* [[:Category:Images of Saeros|Images of Saeros]]

[[Category:Nandor]]

Talk:Artano

2008-08-06T02:19:49Z

Quidon88:

Was there a reason why this article was removed from Category:Sindarin words?--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 22:19, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

Tolkien Gateway:Requests for adminship

2008-08-06T02:01:29Z

Quidon88: nomination reply

This page is for '''requests for [[Tolkien Gateway:Administrators|adminship]]'''. Voting will last two weeks, at which time, if the vote is affirmative, the nominee will be granted admin status.

To view past requests, see the [[Tolkien Gateway:Requests for adminship/Archive|RFA archive]].

==Requirements==
There are some basic things to consider when nominating a fellow Tolkien Gatewayer (or yourself) for adminship.


#They have an account under a screenname.
#They have actively contributed for at least six months to the wiki.
#They have demonstrated they are willing to take on additional [[Tolkien Gateway:Administrators#Responsibilities|responsibilities]] to make the community better.
#They have had at least some major article creations.
#They have dealings with other users on a regular basis in a fair, restrained, and constructive manner.
#They have demonstrated an understanding of the community's methods of operation.
#Administrators votes must be unanimous for adminship to be accepted.

==Nominations==

OK, Tolkien Gateway, '''the time has come'''. King Aragorn has made a good point about Hyarion's recent vacation, and I have always felt that there needed to be another admin on TG. If anything happened to Hy, TG would be crippled. I therefore nominate the first among the recent vacation triumvirate, '''[[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]]'''. He has shown himself worthy, and enforcer of TG standards, and a defender against outside disruptions. --[[User:Theoden1|Theoden1]] 21:40, 5 August 2008 (EDT)



===[[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] (8/5/08)===
Two week deadline from first request

====Support====
* I agree, [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] is doing a great job, but if anything were to happen, I think Tolkien Gateway would be in good hands with [[Ederchil]].--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 22:01, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
====Oppose====

====Neutral/comments====

[[Category:Tolkien Gateway]]

Michael Reisz

2008-08-06T01:56:46Z

Quidon88: added infobox

{{actor
| image=
| name=Michael Reisz
| lifetime=[[March 25]], [[1968]]
| played=[[Legolas]]
| film='''[[Vivendi's The Fellowship of the Ring (game)|The Fellowship of the Ring]]'''
| played2=
| film2=
| imdb=[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0718555/ Profile]
|}}
'''Michael Reisz''' (1968) is an American actor and voice actor. He voiced [[Legolas of Mirkwood|Legolas]] in ''[[Vivendi's The Fellowship of the Ring (game)|The Fellowship of the Ring]]'' game.

==External links==
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Reisz Wikipedia profile]
* [http://voicechasers.com/database/showactor.php?actorid=2893 Voice Chasers profile]

[[Category:Actors and actresses|Reisz, Michael]]

Harfoots

2008-08-06T01:45:53Z

Quidon88: added some links, will work on it further

'''Harfoots''' are one of the three races of [[Hobbits]].

The Harfoots were the most common of Hobbits, and in their earliest known history they lived in the lower foothills of the [[Misty Mountains]] in the Vale of [[Anduin]], in an area roughly bounded by the [[Gladden River]] in the south and the small forested region where later was the [[Eagles]] Eyrie near the High Pass to the north.

== Nature==
They were browner of skin than the other Hobbits, had no beards, and did not wear any footwear. They lived in holes they called ''[[smials]]'', a habit which they long preserved. They were also on very friendly terms with the [[Dwarves]], who travelled through the [[High Pass]] on the Great Road.

== History==
The Harfoots were the first to migrate westward into [[Arnor]], and it was to them that the name ''[[Periannath]]'' or ''[[Halflings]]'' was first applied by the [[Dúnedain]] when they were first recorded in Arnorian records around [[Third Age 1050|1050 of the Third Age]]. They tended to settle down for long times, and founded numerous villages as far as [[Weathertop]].

By the 1300s of the [[Third Age]] they had reached [[Bree]], which long was the most western village of any Hobbits.

The Harfoots were joined between 1150 and 1300 by the [[Fallohides]] and some [[Stoors]]. The Harfoots took Fallohides, a more bold race, as their leaders.

When [[The Shire]] was colonized in [[Third Age 1601]] most of its people were Harfoots.

[[Category:Races of Hobbits]]
[[Category:Hobbits]]

1968

2008-08-06T01:39:30Z

Quidon88: added Michael Reisz

==March==
* '''25''' - [[Michael Reisz]] , who would voice [[Legolas]] in''[[Vivendi's The Fellowship of the Ring (game)|The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', is born
==May==
* '''?''' - Tolkien researcher [[Michael Drout]] is born.
==August==
* '''28''' - [[Billy Boyd]], who would play [[Peregrin Took]] in [[Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings]], is born.
==September==
* '''?''' - The radioseries of [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|The Hobbit]] is started, it airs a total of four hours until November.
==?==
* '''?''' - The Tolkiens move to Poole, near Bornemouth, a seaside resort.
* '''?''' - After the death of his father, [[Rayner Unwin]] becomes chairman of [[Allen and Unwin]].

{{Years|1965|1966|1967|1968|1969|1970|1971|}}
[[Category:Years]]

25 March

2008-08-06T01:37:46Z

Quidon88: removed bold text, added Michael Reisz

<noinclude>
{{month|March}}
Events which occurred on {{PAGENAME}}.
</noinclude>
==On Earth==
* '''[[1967]]''' - publishes an interview of William Foster with [[J.R.R. Tolkien]].
* '''[[1968]]''' - [[Michael Reisz]] , who would voice [[Legolas]] in ''[[Vivendi's The Fellowship of the Ring (game)|The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', is born.
* '''[[1986]]''' - The Swiss [[Tolkien Society]] [[Eredain]] is founded.
* Since '''[[2003]]''': [[Tolkien Reading Day]].

==In Arda==
* [[Third Age 2510|T.A. 2510]]:
** [[Borondir Udalraph|Borondir]] reaches the [[Éothéod]] and delivers them the message of [[Cirion]], [[Steward of Gondor]].

* [[Third Age 3019|T.A. 3019]]:
**The Host of the West is surrounded by enemies on the Slag-hills.
**[[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] and [[Samwise Gamgee|Samwise]] reach the [[Cracks of Doom|Sammath Naur]]. [[Gollum]] seizes the [[One Ring|Ring]] and falls in the [[Cracks of Doom]].
**Downfall of [[Barad-dûr]] and passing of [[Sauron]].
**Beginning of the New Year in [[Gondor]].

* [[Third Age 3021|T.A. 3021]]:
**Begin of the [[Fourth Age]] in the reckoning of [[Gondor]].
**[[Elanor Gardner|Elanor the Fair]], daughter of [[Samwise Gamgee|Samwise]], is born.

[[Category:Dates]]

Dark Lord

2008-08-06T01:18:20Z

Quidon88: added to cat. titles

'''Dark Lord''' was the title given to the two great [[Ainur]] who ruled the forces of darkness in [[Middle-earth]], Morgoth and Sauron.

==Morgoth==
[[Morgoth]] descended into [[Arda]] at its beginning, and battled with the [[Valar]] for ages uncounted before the awakening of [[Elves]] and [[Men]] from his fortress at [[Utumno]] in the north of the world. The Valar defeated him and imprisoned him for three ages, but on his release he returned to [[Angband]], north of [[Beleriand]]. During the [[First Age]], the [[Noldor]] made hopeless war upon him for the return of the [[Silmarils]], but at last the Valar came to their aid and overthrew Morgoth, banishing him forever from the World.

==Sauron==
[[Sauron]] was the ancient lieutenant of Morgoth, and after the first Dark Lord's defeat, he took on his mantle and became a Dark Lord himself during the early [[Second Age]]. Taking the land of [[Mordor]] to dwell in, he corrupted the [[Númenóreans]]. Though he was defeated at the end of the Second Age, and his Dark Tower of [[Barad-dûr]] was thrown down, he rose again during the [[Third Age]], and was finally defeated with the destruction of the [[One Ring]] in [[Third Age 3019]].

[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Titles]]
[[de:Dunkler Herrscher]]
[[fi:Musta Ruhtinas]]

Talk:Karen Wynn Fonstad

2008-08-06T01:10:37Z

Quidon88:

I dont want to sound insensitive, but is stating "Sadly, she passed away in 2005 " very encyclopedic?--[[User:Quidon88|Quidon88]] 21:10, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

Rayner Unwin

2008-08-03T18:27:22Z

Quidon88: added link

[[Image:Rayner Unwin.gif|thumb|Picture of ''Rayner Unwin'']]
'''Rayner Stephens Unwin''' ([[1926]] – [[November 23]], [[2000]]) reviewed [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s [[The Hobbit]] at age 10 and without his praise of the book it might have never been published. His father was [[Stanley Unwin]], co-founder of [[Allen and Unwin|George Allen & Unwin]]. In [[1968]], Rayner Unwin followed in his father's footsteps as chairman of the publishing firm. He retired in 1985 and passed away in 2000.

==External links==
* [http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/movies/tolkien/unwin-video.html Video of Rayner Unwin]

[[Category:People|Unwin, Rayner]]

[[de:Rayner Unwin]]

Francis de Wolff

2008-08-03T18:04:00Z

Quidon88: fixed my typo

{{actor
| image=
| name=Francis de Wolff
| lifetime=[[January 7]], [[1913]] - [[April 18]], [[1984]]
| played=[[Smaug]]
| film=[[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)]]
| played2=
| film2=
| imdb=[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0212470/ Profile]
|}}
'''Francis de Wolff''' (1913 - 1984) was a British actor. He played in many Hammer Horror films, including ''[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051542/ Corridors of Blood]'', in which he played half of a comic duo (the other half was [[Christopher Lee]]). De Wolff was, like Lee, often cast as an antagonist, and he voiced [[Smaug]] in the [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)| 1986 radio series]] of ''[[The Hobbit]]''.

==External links==
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_de_Wolff Wikipedia profile]
[[Category:Actors and actresses|Wolff, Francis de]]

Francis de Wolff

2008-08-03T18:01:07Z

Quidon88: added infobox

{{actor
| image=
| name=Francis de Wolff
| lifetime=[[January 7]], [[1913]] - [[April 18]], [[1984]]
| played=[[Smaug]]
| film=[[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|radio series]]
| played2=
| film2=
| imdb=[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0212470/ Profile]
|}}
'''Francis de Wolff''' (1913 - 1984) was a British actor. He played in many Hammer Horror films, including ''[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051542/ Corridors of Blood]'', in which he played half of a comic duo (the other half was [[Christopher Lee]]). De Wolff was, like Lee, often cast as an antagonist, and he voiced [[Smaug]] in the [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)| 1986 radio series]] of ''[[The Hobbit]]''.

==External links==
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_de_Wolff Wikipedia profile]
[[Category:Actors and actresses|Wolff, Francis de]]