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Haradrim

2014-12-18T20:24:49Z

Serpent Lord of Harad: /* Traits and culture */ added language section

{{race
| image=[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Haradrim.jpg|250px]]
| name=Haradrim
| dominions=[[Harad]], including [[Umbar]], [[Near Harad]] and [[Far Harad]]
| languages=presumably numerous; different from [[Common Speech]]
| height=shorter than [[Numenoreans]]
| length=
| skincolor=dark
| haircolor=dark
| feathers=
| distinctions=Alliance with [[Sauron]]; use of giant [[Oliphaunts]] in battle
| lifespan=shorter than [[Numenoreans]]
| members=Serpent Lord
|}}

The '''Haradrim''' or '''Southrons''' were the proud and warlike people of the [[Harad]], in the south of [[Middle-earth]]. Ancient enemies of [[Gondor]], they allied with [[Sauron]] during the [[War of the Ring]].

==Traits and culture==
[[File:Alan Lee - An Oliphaunt.jpg|thumb|left|[[Alan Lee]] - ''An Oliphaunt'']]
The Haradrim were tall, primitive and dark-skinned with black hair and eyes, and for that they were called '''Swertings''' or '''[[Swarthy Men]]'''.<ref name=herbs>{{TT|Herbs}}</ref> Those of [[Near Harad]] were brown-skinned, with black hair and dark eyes, whereas the people of [[Far Harad]] had black skin.<ref name="Gate">{{TT|IV3}}</ref>

Many Haradrim warriors were seen in bright clothing, such as scarlet robes, and were decorated with golden ornaments, such as collars, earrings, corslets of overlapping brazen plates; they braided their hair with gold. Some tribes painted their bodies. Scarlet and red was also the color of their banners, tips of their spears, and body paint. Their shields were yellow and black with spikes.<ref name=herbs/> It is also mentioned that at the end of the Second Age some of the Men in the south had weapons of iron.<ref>{{S|Rings}}</ref>

===Language===
Tolkien did not especially work out a notable language for the Haradrim. The only word which is stated to come from a southron language is "Mûmak", the name of the great war-oliphaunts of Harad.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/mumakil.html |title=Mûmakil |work=The Encyclopedia of Arda}}</ref> [[Gandalf]] states that his name in "the south" is "Incánus" (which is Latin, meaning "very grey-haired" and thus may be simply a translation of the original Olórin's name among the Haradrim, just like name "Gandalf" itself is an anglicized Old Norse translation of a Westron name), thought by some to be a Haradrim name, but speculated by Tolkien to actually be a [[Westron]] or Sindarin form from Gondor. On early sketches for the Lord of the Rings names as "Barangils" and "Harwan" appear, but it is unsure if Tolkien intended both to be names from a Haradrim language. Despite having a meaning in Quenya ("fate"), the name [[Umbar]] is said to be adapted from the natives' language and not from Elvish or [[Adûnaic]].

==History==
The ancestors of the Haradrim were [[Men]] who awoke in the [[First Age]], but stayed to the [[East]] of [[Middle-earth]], not joining the migration of the [[Edain]] to the [[West (disambiguation)|West]]. They eventually settled in [[Harad]], where the [[Sun]] is fierce and there are no clouds. It is possible that they were relatives of the [[Swarthy Men]] who went to [[Beleriand]] after the Edain. The Haradrim remained a fierce, cruel people.<ref>{{webcite|author=[[Andreas Moehn]]|articleurl=http://lalaith.vpsurf.de/Tolkien/Men_of_Darkness.html|articlename=The History of the Men of Darkness|website=Lalaith}}</ref>
===Second Age===
During the [[Second Age]] the [[Númenóreans|High Men]] of [[Númenor]] built a great city in the firth of [[Umbar]], a vast natural harbour on the southern shores of the [[Bay of Belfalas]], eventually turning the city into a fortified citadel from whose gates the Men of Númenor initially benefited the people in the lands they explored by teaching them many things about agriculture and craftsmanship.<ref>{{App|Numenor}}</ref> After the reign of [[Tar-Ciryatan]], the Númenóreans began to set themselves up as lords in Middle-earth as they demanded tribute of goods and wealth, causing the oppression of the Haradrim. Under [[Ar-Pharazon]], the Númenóreans made war on the Men of Middle-earth, enslaving them and using them for human sacrifices.<ref>{{S|Akallabeth}}</ref>

In the following centuries they were influenced by [[Sauron]] and [[Black Númenóreans]], those evil High Men who stayed in Harad and survived the [[Downfall of Númenor]].<ref>{{RK|V10}}</ref> The Haradrim became enemies of [[Gondor]], as the Kingdom's southern borders was close to their lands. Shortly before the [[War of the Last Alliance]], two Númenórean lords, [[Herumor]] and [[Fuinur]], "rose to great power amongst the Haradrim".<ref>{{S|Rings}}</ref>

===Third Age===
The Haradrim did not trouble the [[Realms in Exile]] for many centuries, until in {{TA|1015}}, they followed the Black Númenóreans against Umbar to recapture it. Their great power was not enough against the sea-power of Gondor. The attempts lasted for 35 years until, in {{TA|1050}}, [[Ciryandil]] defeated the Haradrim force by sending troops by land.<ref name="annals">{{App|Gondor}}</ref>

Later however kings of [[Harad]] who were in league with the [[Umbar]] rebelled against Gondor. King [[Aldamir]] fell in battle against them but his son [[Vinyarion]] won a great victory in Harad in {{TA|1551}}.<ref name="annals"/>

The Haradrim later were allied with the [[Wainriders]], a confederation of [[Easterlings]], and the Men of [[Khand]]. During the simultaneous assaults from the north and the south, the South-kingdom came close to destruction. The campaigns ended with the Wainraiders' definite defeat in the [[Battle of the Camp]] in {{TA|1944}}.<ref name="annals"/>

Around that time, some Haradrim were among the [[Corsairs of Umbar]], a constant harassment for Gondor.<ref name=foster>{{HM|Guide}}, entry "Haradrim"</ref>

The Haradrim were stirred up by emissaries of Sauron to attack Gondor again, and in {{TA|2885}}, they did so at the [[Crossings of Poros]], but were defeated again as they faced also the [[Rohirrim]]. The [[twins|twin]] sons of [[Kings of Rohan|King]] [[Folcwine]] of [[Rohan]], were slain in that battle.<ref>{{App|TA}}</ref><ref>{{App|Mark}}</ref>

At the time of the [[War of the Ring]], the Southrons were in league with [[Sauron]] and fought alongside his [[Orcs|Orc]] army. The Haradrim were among the forces led by the [[Witch-king]] that attacked [[Osgiliath]] on [[20 June|June 20]], {{TA|3018}},<ref name="Great">{{App|Great}}</ref> at the beginning of the War. They captured the eastern half of Osgiliath, but [[Boromir]] and [[Faramir]] cast down the bridge across the [[Anduin]] and defended the western half of the city.<ref name="Council">{{FR|II2}}</ref> More Haradrim continued to come up the [[Harad Road]] to Mordor. Faramir and the [[Rangers of Ithilien]] ambushed some companies of Haradrim, but they could not stop them all.<ref>{{TT|IV4}}</ref>

In the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]], they deployed cavalry and gigantic, [[Elephants|elephant]]-like [[Oliphaunts|Mûmakil]]. Regiments of Haradrim joined the host from Minas Morgul marching to the [[Pelennor Fields]]. Sauron's forces besieged [[Minas Tirith]], and the Mûmakil of Harad were used to bring forward war-towers and siege-engines to test the City's defenses. One of the leaders of the Haradrim at this time bore the standard of the [[Serpent Lord]] and was slain by King [[Théoden]] of [[Rohan]] at the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]<ref>{{RK|V6}}</ref> on [[15 March]] {{TA|3019|n}}.<ref name="Great"/>

Once Sauron was destroyed, the Southrons submitted to the rule of King [[Aragorn|Elessar]].

To the [[Gondorians]] their voices sounded harsh, like shouts of beasts.<ref>{{RK|Siege}}</ref>

The Haradrim had tamed the massive ''[[Oliphaunts|Mûmakil]]'' beasts and used them in warfare and, like their masters, were decorated with scarlet and gold. They even strapped towers on their backs, used by Haradrim archers and spearmen.<ref name=herbs/>

[[Half-trolls]] was a name for a race of Men coming from [[Far Harad]], perhaps one of the tribes of the Haradrim.

==Etymology==

''Haradrim'' is a [[Sindarin]] name, consisting of the elements ''[[harad]]'' ("south") + ''[[rim]]'' ("host")<ref>{{L|144}}, p. 178</ref> thus meaning "South-people".<ref name=foster/>

Other names were '''Southerns''', '''Southrons'''.<ref name=foster/>

==Other versions of the Legendarium==
Early variant names for this people were the ''Haradwaith'' (from the name of their land) and ''Haradrians''.<ref>{{HM|SD}}, pp. 16-7</ref>
==Portrayal in Adaptations==

'''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''

:The Haradrim appear briefly in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]] when Frodo and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] witness a raid on one of their columns by [[Faramir|Faramir's]] rangers. They are featured more prominently in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]], in which the battle between the [[Rohirrim]] and the [[Mûmakil]] is a major action sequence.

:While the [[The Return of the King|book]] depicts the Southron army as primarily cavalry armed with scimitars, we see no horsemen in the movie: the Haradrim fight almost exclusively from platforms mounted on the backs of their monstrous [[oliphaunts]]. They have also adorned the animals' tusks with spikes and shafts that crush and impale numerous enemy horsemen.

:The costumes of the Haradrim in the movie are Middle Eastern in style and dark brown or black in color, while the Haradrim wore red livery in the book.

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Haradrim|Images of Haradrim]]
{{references}}
[[Category:Haradrim| ]]
[[Category:Sindarin names]]
[[Category:Men]]
[[de:Haradrim]]
[[fr:encyclo/peuples/hommes/haradrim]]
[[fi:Haradrim]]

Haradrim

2014-12-18T20:23:29Z

Serpent Lord of Harad: added category

{{race
| image=[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Haradrim.jpg|250px]]
| name=Haradrim
| dominions=[[Harad]], including [[Umbar]], [[Near Harad]] and [[Far Harad]]
| languages=presumably numerous; different from [[Common Speech]]
| height=shorter than [[Numenoreans]]
| length=
| skincolor=dark
| haircolor=dark
| feathers=
| distinctions=Alliance with [[Sauron]]; use of giant [[Oliphaunts]] in battle
| lifespan=shorter than [[Numenoreans]]
| members=Serpent Lord
|}}

The '''Haradrim''' or '''Southrons''' were the proud and warlike people of the [[Harad]], in the south of [[Middle-earth]]. Ancient enemies of [[Gondor]], they allied with [[Sauron]] during the [[War of the Ring]].

==Traits and culture==
[[File:Alan Lee - An Oliphaunt.jpg|thumb|left|[[Alan Lee]] - ''An Oliphaunt'']]
The Haradrim were tall, primitive and dark-skinned with black hair and eyes, and for that they were called '''Swertings''' or '''[[Swarthy Men]]'''.<ref name=herbs>{{TT|Herbs}}</ref> Those of [[Near Harad]] were brown-skinned, with black hair and dark eyes, whereas the people of [[Far Harad]] had black skin.<ref name="Gate">{{TT|IV3}}</ref>

Many Haradrim warriors were seen in bright clothing, such as scarlet robes, and were decorated with golden ornaments, such as collars, earrings, corslets of overlapping brazen plates; they braided their hair with gold. Some tribes painted their bodies. Scarlet and red was also the color of their banners, tips of their spears, and body paint. Their shields were yellow and black with spikes.<ref name=herbs/> It is also mentioned that at the end of the Second Age some of the Men in the south had weapons of iron.<ref>{{S|Rings}}</ref>

==History==
The ancestors of the Haradrim were [[Men]] who awoke in the [[First Age]], but stayed to the [[East]] of [[Middle-earth]], not joining the migration of the [[Edain]] to the [[West (disambiguation)|West]]. They eventually settled in [[Harad]], where the [[Sun]] is fierce and there are no clouds. It is possible that they were relatives of the [[Swarthy Men]] who went to [[Beleriand]] after the Edain. The Haradrim remained a fierce, cruel people.<ref>{{webcite|author=[[Andreas Moehn]]|articleurl=http://lalaith.vpsurf.de/Tolkien/Men_of_Darkness.html|articlename=The History of the Men of Darkness|website=Lalaith}}</ref>
===Second Age===
During the [[Second Age]] the [[Númenóreans|High Men]] of [[Númenor]] built a great city in the firth of [[Umbar]], a vast natural harbour on the southern shores of the [[Bay of Belfalas]], eventually turning the city into a fortified citadel from whose gates the Men of Númenor initially benefited the people in the lands they explored by teaching them many things about agriculture and craftsmanship.<ref>{{App|Numenor}}</ref> After the reign of [[Tar-Ciryatan]], the Númenóreans began to set themselves up as lords in Middle-earth as they demanded tribute of goods and wealth, causing the oppression of the Haradrim. Under [[Ar-Pharazon]], the Númenóreans made war on the Men of Middle-earth, enslaving them and using them for human sacrifices.<ref>{{S|Akallabeth}}</ref>

In the following centuries they were influenced by [[Sauron]] and [[Black Númenóreans]], those evil High Men who stayed in Harad and survived the [[Downfall of Númenor]].<ref>{{RK|V10}}</ref> The Haradrim became enemies of [[Gondor]], as the Kingdom's southern borders was close to their lands. Shortly before the [[War of the Last Alliance]], two Númenórean lords, [[Herumor]] and [[Fuinur]], "rose to great power amongst the Haradrim".<ref>{{S|Rings}}</ref>

===Third Age===
The Haradrim did not trouble the [[Realms in Exile]] for many centuries, until in {{TA|1015}}, they followed the Black Númenóreans against Umbar to recapture it. Their great power was not enough against the sea-power of Gondor. The attempts lasted for 35 years until, in {{TA|1050}}, [[Ciryandil]] defeated the Haradrim force by sending troops by land.<ref name="annals">{{App|Gondor}}</ref>

Later however kings of [[Harad]] who were in league with the [[Umbar]] rebelled against Gondor. King [[Aldamir]] fell in battle against them but his son [[Vinyarion]] won a great victory in Harad in {{TA|1551}}.<ref name="annals"/>

The Haradrim later were allied with the [[Wainriders]], a confederation of [[Easterlings]], and the Men of [[Khand]]. During the simultaneous assaults from the north and the south, the South-kingdom came close to destruction. The campaigns ended with the Wainraiders' definite defeat in the [[Battle of the Camp]] in {{TA|1944}}.<ref name="annals"/>

Around that time, some Haradrim were among the [[Corsairs of Umbar]], a constant harassment for Gondor.<ref name=foster>{{HM|Guide}}, entry "Haradrim"</ref>

The Haradrim were stirred up by emissaries of Sauron to attack Gondor again, and in {{TA|2885}}, they did so at the [[Crossings of Poros]], but were defeated again as they faced also the [[Rohirrim]]. The [[twins|twin]] sons of [[Kings of Rohan|King]] [[Folcwine]] of [[Rohan]], were slain in that battle.<ref>{{App|TA}}</ref><ref>{{App|Mark}}</ref>

At the time of the [[War of the Ring]], the Southrons were in league with [[Sauron]] and fought alongside his [[Orcs|Orc]] army. The Haradrim were among the forces led by the [[Witch-king]] that attacked [[Osgiliath]] on [[20 June|June 20]], {{TA|3018}},<ref name="Great">{{App|Great}}</ref> at the beginning of the War. They captured the eastern half of Osgiliath, but [[Boromir]] and [[Faramir]] cast down the bridge across the [[Anduin]] and defended the western half of the city.<ref name="Council">{{FR|II2}}</ref> More Haradrim continued to come up the [[Harad Road]] to Mordor. Faramir and the [[Rangers of Ithilien]] ambushed some companies of Haradrim, but they could not stop them all.<ref>{{TT|IV4}}</ref>

In the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]], they deployed cavalry and gigantic, [[Elephants|elephant]]-like [[Oliphaunts|Mûmakil]]. Regiments of Haradrim joined the host from Minas Morgul marching to the [[Pelennor Fields]]. Sauron's forces besieged [[Minas Tirith]], and the Mûmakil of Harad were used to bring forward war-towers and siege-engines to test the City's defenses. One of the leaders of the Haradrim at this time bore the standard of the [[Serpent Lord]] and was slain by King [[Théoden]] of [[Rohan]] at the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]<ref>{{RK|V6}}</ref> on [[15 March]] {{TA|3019|n}}.<ref name="Great"/>

Once Sauron was destroyed, the Southrons submitted to the rule of King [[Aragorn|Elessar]].

To the [[Gondorians]] their voices sounded harsh, like shouts of beasts.<ref>{{RK|Siege}}</ref>

The Haradrim had tamed the massive ''[[Oliphaunts|Mûmakil]]'' beasts and used them in warfare and, like their masters, were decorated with scarlet and gold. They even strapped towers on their backs, used by Haradrim archers and spearmen.<ref name=herbs/>

[[Half-trolls]] was a name for a race of Men coming from [[Far Harad]], perhaps one of the tribes of the Haradrim.

==Etymology==

''Haradrim'' is a [[Sindarin]] name, consisting of the elements ''[[harad]]'' ("south") + ''[[rim]]'' ("host")<ref>{{L|144}}, p. 178</ref> thus meaning "South-people".<ref name=foster/>

Other names were '''Southerns''', '''Southrons'''.<ref name=foster/>

==Other versions of the Legendarium==
Early variant names for this people were the ''Haradwaith'' (from the name of their land) and ''Haradrians''.<ref>{{HM|SD}}, pp. 16-7</ref>
==Portrayal in Adaptations==

'''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''

:The Haradrim appear briefly in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]] when Frodo and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] witness a raid on one of their columns by [[Faramir|Faramir's]] rangers. They are featured more prominently in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]], in which the battle between the [[Rohirrim]] and the [[Mûmakil]] is a major action sequence.

:While the [[The Return of the King|book]] depicts the Southron army as primarily cavalry armed with scimitars, we see no horsemen in the movie: the Haradrim fight almost exclusively from platforms mounted on the backs of their monstrous [[oliphaunts]]. They have also adorned the animals' tusks with spikes and shafts that crush and impale numerous enemy horsemen.

:The costumes of the Haradrim in the movie are Middle Eastern in style and dark brown or black in color, while the Haradrim wore red livery in the book.

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Haradrim|Images of Haradrim]]
{{references}}
[[Category:Haradrim| ]]
[[Category:Sindarin names]]
[[Category:Men]]
[[de:Haradrim]]
[[fr:encyclo/peuples/hommes/haradrim]]
[[fi:Haradrim]]

Haradrim

2014-12-18T20:21:10Z

Serpent Lord of Harad: minor rearranging; more practical order

{{race
| image=[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Haradrim.jpg|250px]]
| name=Haradrim
| dominions=[[Harad]], including [[Umbar]], [[Near Harad]] and [[Far Harad]]
| languages=presumably numerous; different from [[Common Speech]]
| height=shorter than [[Numenoreans]]
| length=
| skincolor=dark
| haircolor=dark
| feathers=
| distinctions=Alliance with [[Sauron]]; use of giant [[Oliphaunts]] in battle
| lifespan=shorter than [[Numenoreans]]
| members=Serpent Lord
|}}

The '''Haradrim''' or '''Southrons''' were the proud and warlike people of the [[Harad]], in the south of [[Middle-earth]]. Ancient enemies of [[Gondor]], they allied with [[Sauron]] during the [[War of the Ring]].

==Traits and culture==
[[File:Alan Lee - An Oliphaunt.jpg|thumb|left|[[Alan Lee]] - ''An Oliphaunt'']]
The Haradrim were tall, primitive and dark-skinned with black hair and eyes, and for that they were called '''Swertings''' or '''[[Swarthy Men]]'''.<ref name=herbs>{{TT|Herbs}}</ref> Those of [[Near Harad]] were brown-skinned, with black hair and dark eyes, whereas the people of [[Far Harad]] had black skin.<ref name="Gate">{{TT|IV3}}</ref>

Many Haradrim warriors were seen in bright clothing, such as scarlet robes, and were decorated with golden ornaments, such as collars, earrings, corslets of overlapping brazen plates; they braided their hair with gold. Some tribes painted their bodies. Scarlet and red was also the color of their banners, tips of their spears, and body paint. Their shields were yellow and black with spikes.<ref name=herbs/> It is also mentioned that at the end of the Second Age some of the Men in the south had weapons of iron.<ref>{{S|Rings}}</ref>

==History==
The ancestors of the Haradrim were [[Men]] who awoke in the [[First Age]], but stayed to the [[East]] of [[Middle-earth]], not joining the migration of the [[Edain]] to the [[West (disambiguation)|West]]. They eventually settled in [[Harad]], where the [[Sun]] is fierce and there are no clouds. It is possible that they were relatives of the [[Swarthy Men]] who went to [[Beleriand]] after the Edain. The Haradrim remained a fierce, cruel people.<ref>{{webcite|author=[[Andreas Moehn]]|articleurl=http://lalaith.vpsurf.de/Tolkien/Men_of_Darkness.html|articlename=The History of the Men of Darkness|website=Lalaith}}</ref>
===Second Age===
During the [[Second Age]] the [[Númenóreans|High Men]] of [[Númenor]] built a great city in the firth of [[Umbar]], a vast natural harbour on the southern shores of the [[Bay of Belfalas]], eventually turning the city into a fortified citadel from whose gates the Men of Númenor initially benefited the people in the lands they explored by teaching them many things about agriculture and craftsmanship.<ref>{{App|Numenor}}</ref> After the reign of [[Tar-Ciryatan]], the Númenóreans began to set themselves up as lords in Middle-earth as they demanded tribute of goods and wealth, causing the oppression of the Haradrim. Under [[Ar-Pharazon]], the Númenóreans made war on the Men of Middle-earth, enslaving them and using them for human sacrifices.<ref>{{S|Akallabeth}}</ref>

In the following centuries they were influenced by [[Sauron]] and [[Black Númenóreans]], those evil High Men who stayed in Harad and survived the [[Downfall of Númenor]].<ref>{{RK|V10}}</ref> The Haradrim became enemies of [[Gondor]], as the Kingdom's southern borders was close to their lands. Shortly before the [[War of the Last Alliance]], two Númenórean lords, [[Herumor]] and [[Fuinur]], "rose to great power amongst the Haradrim".<ref>{{S|Rings}}</ref>

===Third Age===
The Haradrim did not trouble the [[Realms in Exile]] for many centuries, until in {{TA|1015}}, they followed the Black Númenóreans against Umbar to recapture it. Their great power was not enough against the sea-power of Gondor. The attempts lasted for 35 years until, in {{TA|1050}}, [[Ciryandil]] defeated the Haradrim force by sending troops by land.<ref name="annals">{{App|Gondor}}</ref>

Later however kings of [[Harad]] who were in league with the [[Umbar]] rebelled against Gondor. King [[Aldamir]] fell in battle against them but his son [[Vinyarion]] won a great victory in Harad in {{TA|1551}}.<ref name="annals"/>

The Haradrim later were allied with the [[Wainriders]], a confederation of [[Easterlings]], and the Men of [[Khand]]. During the simultaneous assaults from the north and the south, the South-kingdom came close to destruction. The campaigns ended with the Wainraiders' definite defeat in the [[Battle of the Camp]] in {{TA|1944}}.<ref name="annals"/>

Around that time, some Haradrim were among the [[Corsairs of Umbar]], a constant harassment for Gondor.<ref name=foster>{{HM|Guide}}, entry "Haradrim"</ref>

The Haradrim were stirred up by emissaries of Sauron to attack Gondor again, and in {{TA|2885}}, they did so at the [[Crossings of Poros]], but were defeated again as they faced also the [[Rohirrim]]. The [[twins|twin]] sons of [[Kings of Rohan|King]] [[Folcwine]] of [[Rohan]], were slain in that battle.<ref>{{App|TA}}</ref><ref>{{App|Mark}}</ref>

At the time of the [[War of the Ring]], the Southrons were in league with [[Sauron]] and fought alongside his [[Orcs|Orc]] army. The Haradrim were among the forces led by the [[Witch-king]] that attacked [[Osgiliath]] on [[20 June|June 20]], {{TA|3018}},<ref name="Great">{{App|Great}}</ref> at the beginning of the War. They captured the eastern half of Osgiliath, but [[Boromir]] and [[Faramir]] cast down the bridge across the [[Anduin]] and defended the western half of the city.<ref name="Council">{{FR|II2}}</ref> More Haradrim continued to come up the [[Harad Road]] to Mordor. Faramir and the [[Rangers of Ithilien]] ambushed some companies of Haradrim, but they could not stop them all.<ref>{{TT|IV4}}</ref>

In the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]], they deployed cavalry and gigantic, [[Elephants|elephant]]-like [[Oliphaunts|Mûmakil]]. Regiments of Haradrim joined the host from Minas Morgul marching to the [[Pelennor Fields]]. Sauron's forces besieged [[Minas Tirith]], and the Mûmakil of Harad were used to bring forward war-towers and siege-engines to test the City's defenses. One of the leaders of the Haradrim at this time bore the standard of the [[Serpent Lord]] and was slain by King [[Théoden]] of [[Rohan]] at the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]]<ref>{{RK|V6}}</ref> on [[15 March]] {{TA|3019|n}}.<ref name="Great"/>

Once Sauron was destroyed, the Southrons submitted to the rule of King [[Aragorn|Elessar]].

To the [[Gondorians]] their voices sounded harsh, like shouts of beasts.<ref>{{RK|Siege}}</ref>

The Haradrim had tamed the massive ''[[Oliphaunts|Mûmakil]]'' beasts and used them in warfare and, like their masters, were decorated with scarlet and gold. They even strapped towers on their backs, used by Haradrim archers and spearmen.<ref name=herbs/>

[[Half-trolls]] was a name for a race of Men coming from [[Far Harad]], perhaps one of the tribes of the Haradrim.

==Etymology==

''Haradrim'' is a [[Sindarin]] name, consisting of the elements ''[[harad]]'' ("south") + ''[[rim]]'' ("host")<ref>{{L|144}}, p. 178</ref> thus meaning "South-people".<ref name=foster/>

Other names were '''Southerns''', '''Southrons'''.<ref name=foster/>

==Other versions of the Legendarium==
Early variant names for this people were the ''Haradwaith'' (from the name of their land) and ''Haradrians''.<ref>{{HM|SD}}, pp. 16-7</ref>
==Portrayal in Adaptations==

'''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''

:The Haradrim appear briefly in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]] when Frodo and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] witness a raid on one of their columns by [[Faramir|Faramir's]] rangers. They are featured more prominently in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]], in which the battle between the [[Rohirrim]] and the [[Mûmakil]] is a major action sequence.

:While the [[The Return of the King|book]] depicts the Southron army as primarily cavalry armed with scimitars, we see no horsemen in the movie: the Haradrim fight almost exclusively from platforms mounted on the backs of their monstrous [[oliphaunts]]. They have also adorned the animals' tusks with spikes and shafts that crush and impale numerous enemy horsemen.

:The costumes of the Haradrim in the movie are Middle Eastern in style and dark brown or black in color, while the Haradrim wore red livery in the book.

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Haradrim|Images of Haradrim]]
{{references}}
[[Category:Haradrim| ]]
[[Category:Sindarin names]]
[[de:Haradrim]]
[[fr:encyclo/peuples/hommes/haradrim]]
[[fi:Haradrim]]

User talk:Mith/2014

2014-09-21T13:25:30Z

Serpent Lord of Harad: /* hey thanks for the welcome */

{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013}}
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''⇒ Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table>


== Thanks for the welcome ==

Hi, Mith. I just threw in a lot of stuff (mostly in the refs) about "Bullroarer" in [[Bandobras Took#Etymology]], with sources going about 3 levels deep. Dammit, this site is feeding my addictions! --[[User:Thnidu|Thnidu]] 10:34, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

:Hi Thnidu, you're very welcome and we're glad to have you one board! My colleague, [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]], has undone your edit as you've reference Wikipedia; on Tolkien Gateway we don't reference Wikipedia but feel free to use the exact same sources that they use! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:16, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

== I'm new ==

Hey mith I'm trying to get more involved on here can you help me guide me some I'm new to this and feel slightly overwhelmed thanks [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 03:26, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

:Hi Neumanjames2010, I'm pleased that you are so keen to get more involved. What exactly would you like help with? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:17, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

::just unsure where i can help more and to get more involved with the community [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 10:24, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

::Hey mith I dont know how to make or use info boxes other than user boxes I was thinking we could add the instruments to the 13 dwarves in thorin co. [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 12:12, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

:::I can't really direct you about where you can help - everyone just helps out, independently, wherever they feel most able. Do you have any particular Tolkienian interests?
:::Your idea about the instruments is a good one, but it does only apply to Thorin and Company and we do try to keep the infoboxes uniform (the infoboxes don't currently support instruments). I shall have a think! If you want to add an infobox to a page, there is a fairly self-explanatory code on each page - the list of infoboxes is available here: [[:Category:Infobox templates]]. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:56, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

==Sourcing==

Hey mith if I were to clean up the mirkwood and thorin pages are there certain edtions that we tend to use as sourses or can we just use any edition of the original stories [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 22:26, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

:With ''[[The Hobbit]]'' there is no preferred edition. With ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' we tend to prefer the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th Anniversary Edition]] as this is fairly universal with consistent pagination. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 22:39, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

== Different ISBNs ==

Would it be much trouble to add extra lines for different ISBNs in (the expanded version of) Template:Book? I stumbled upon the need to add an "Ebook ISBN" in addition to the "Print ISBN" when creating the page for ''[http://www.mcfarlandbooks.com/book-2.php?id=978-0-7864-7438-7 Tolkien in the New Century]''.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:47, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

:Done. I've even done a cool thing whereby if you do put in two ISBNs it changes on the template to read "ISBNs" instead of "ISBN". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

== Minor Hobbits in AUJ EE ==
Tosser Grubb needs a citation, then, by that logic, do all the other Hobbits who appear in the market scene in the extended cut of "An Unexpected Journey" need one as well (the ones actually given character names, at least - Old Gammidge, Old Hob and Fredegar Chubb)? {{unsigned|BalrogTrainer}}
:Yes, I totally agree. I only commented on the one because, at the time, it was the only article I was aware of.
:On the subject of Old Gammidge, have you seen [[Talk:Old Gammidge]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:35, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

::Yes, I didn't realize that character existed when I made the page for the film character... though whether they're intended to be one and the same, it's hard to tell, IMO. Still, I'd have no problem if you (or another mod) merged the two pages.--[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 17:12, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

:::Well, like you I do think it needs to be established that they are the same. I'm not sure how this can be confirmed or not! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:25, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

== The law of Númenor ==

One did not simply change the line of succession to the throne of Númenor. But why not at that time? I think, that's very relevant to TG and to everybody! Greetings, --[[User:TarElessar|TarElessar]] 17:26, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

:I can only suggest that you research the topic and update the article with your findings. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:07, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

::Okay. I'm trying that already. --[[User:TarElessar|TarElessar]] 10:15, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

== Thank you! ==

Thanks for fixing those references for me. I was just trying to tailor up a few articles I saw in need of sourcing/"higher quality standards" according to their messages. Is there a tutorial on here on how to properly make references? I'm familiar with Wikia referencing, but not quite sure how to do it in this layout. [[User:Bloody Mary|Bloody Mary]] 16:54, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

:You're very welcome. I'm not sure how Wikia do things but I thought they were broadly similar. See [[Help:References]] for help on this, which also includes a lot of our citation templates which are ''incredibly'' handy! If you have any questions, just ask. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:26, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

::I am sure (hey, Wikia Star here): we use the same sourcing system as Wikia: <nowiki><ref name=X></ref></nowiki>. The rest is a bit trickier: we have [[:Category:Citation templates|several quick fix templates for different books]] and we use <nowiki>{{References}}</nowiki> to create a references/notes section rather than have <nowiki><references/></nowiki> at the bottom of the page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:45, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

== hey thanks for the welcome==

Hello mith and thanks for the welcome! I am a real Tolkien enthusiast and would love to take on any tasks you would like to entrust me with. I have one question: is there a restriction on movie related images? I'd be willing to help put some of the New Line cinema film portraits of the characters into info boxes if you would like (I would source obviously). I just think the audiences have seen the movies so it helps them identify characters tremendously if they recognize them from the films! {{unsigned|Serpent Lord of Harad}}

:You're very welcome, Serpent Lord of Harad, I'm glad to have you on board! With regard to images of characters we always include images from the films in the "Portrayal in adaptations" section but prefer non-film-derived artwork for the infobox images. I hope this helps! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:35, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

::Ok thank you! I have another question: should the pages for the Haradrim and the Easterling have info Boxes? {{unsigned|Serpent Lord of Harad}}

:::Yes - we have an infobox template for that: [[Template:Race]]. By the way, please sign your comments on talk pages by writing "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>" at the end of your messages. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:55, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Ok sorry. One thing: is there away to upload new versions of files as there is one wikipedia? I only want to offer clearer images from the movies of the Haradrim and Easterlings. --{{User:Serpent Lord of Harad/sig}} 12:55, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

User talk:Mith/2014

2014-09-21T12:49:45Z

Serpent Lord of Harad: /* hey thanks for the welcome */

{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013}}
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''⇒ Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table>


== Thanks for the welcome ==

Hi, Mith. I just threw in a lot of stuff (mostly in the refs) about "Bullroarer" in [[Bandobras Took#Etymology]], with sources going about 3 levels deep. Dammit, this site is feeding my addictions! --[[User:Thnidu|Thnidu]] 10:34, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

:Hi Thnidu, you're very welcome and we're glad to have you one board! My colleague, [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]], has undone your edit as you've reference Wikipedia; on Tolkien Gateway we don't reference Wikipedia but feel free to use the exact same sources that they use! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:16, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

== I'm new ==

Hey mith I'm trying to get more involved on here can you help me guide me some I'm new to this and feel slightly overwhelmed thanks [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 03:26, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

:Hi Neumanjames2010, I'm pleased that you are so keen to get more involved. What exactly would you like help with? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:17, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

::just unsure where i can help more and to get more involved with the community [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 10:24, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

::Hey mith I dont know how to make or use info boxes other than user boxes I was thinking we could add the instruments to the 13 dwarves in thorin co. [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 12:12, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

:::I can't really direct you about where you can help - everyone just helps out, independently, wherever they feel most able. Do you have any particular Tolkienian interests?
:::Your idea about the instruments is a good one, but it does only apply to Thorin and Company and we do try to keep the infoboxes uniform (the infoboxes don't currently support instruments). I shall have a think! If you want to add an infobox to a page, there is a fairly self-explanatory code on each page - the list of infoboxes is available here: [[:Category:Infobox templates]]. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:56, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

==Sourcing==

Hey mith if I were to clean up the mirkwood and thorin pages are there certain edtions that we tend to use as sourses or can we just use any edition of the original stories [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 22:26, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

:With ''[[The Hobbit]]'' there is no preferred edition. With ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' we tend to prefer the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th Anniversary Edition]] as this is fairly universal with consistent pagination. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 22:39, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

== Different ISBNs ==

Would it be much trouble to add extra lines for different ISBNs in (the expanded version of) Template:Book? I stumbled upon the need to add an "Ebook ISBN" in addition to the "Print ISBN" when creating the page for ''[http://www.mcfarlandbooks.com/book-2.php?id=978-0-7864-7438-7 Tolkien in the New Century]''.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:47, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

:Done. I've even done a cool thing whereby if you do put in two ISBNs it changes on the template to read "ISBNs" instead of "ISBN". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

== Minor Hobbits in AUJ EE ==
Tosser Grubb needs a citation, then, by that logic, do all the other Hobbits who appear in the market scene in the extended cut of "An Unexpected Journey" need one as well (the ones actually given character names, at least - Old Gammidge, Old Hob and Fredegar Chubb)? {{unsigned|BalrogTrainer}}
:Yes, I totally agree. I only commented on the one because, at the time, it was the only article I was aware of.
:On the subject of Old Gammidge, have you seen [[Talk:Old Gammidge]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:35, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

::Yes, I didn't realize that character existed when I made the page for the film character... though whether they're intended to be one and the same, it's hard to tell, IMO. Still, I'd have no problem if you (or another mod) merged the two pages.--[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 17:12, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

:::Well, like you I do think it needs to be established that they are the same. I'm not sure how this can be confirmed or not! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:25, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

== The law of Númenor ==

One did not simply change the line of succession to the throne of Númenor. But why not at that time? I think, that's very relevant to TG and to everybody! Greetings, --[[User:TarElessar|TarElessar]] 17:26, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

:I can only suggest that you research the topic and update the article with your findings. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:07, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

::Okay. I'm trying that already. --[[User:TarElessar|TarElessar]] 10:15, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

== Thank you! ==

Thanks for fixing those references for me. I was just trying to tailor up a few articles I saw in need of sourcing/"higher quality standards" according to their messages. Is there a tutorial on here on how to properly make references? I'm familiar with Wikia referencing, but not quite sure how to do it in this layout. [[User:Bloody Mary|Bloody Mary]] 16:54, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

:You're very welcome. I'm not sure how Wikia do things but I thought they were broadly similar. See [[Help:References]] for help on this, which also includes a lot of our citation templates which are ''incredibly'' handy! If you have any questions, just ask. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:26, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

::I am sure (hey, Wikia Star here): we use the same sourcing system as Wikia: <nowiki><ref name=X></ref></nowiki>. The rest is a bit trickier: we have [[:Category:Citation templates|several quick fix templates for different books]] and we use <nowiki>{{References}}</nowiki> to create a references/notes section rather than have <nowiki><references/></nowiki> at the bottom of the page. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:45, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

== hey thanks for the welcome==

Hello mith and thanks for the welcome! I am a real Tolkien enthusiast and would love to take on any tasks you would like to entrust me with. I have one question: is there a restriction on movie related images? I'd be willing to help put some of the New Line cinema film portraits of the characters into info boxes if you would like (I would source obviously). I just think the audiences have seen the movies so it helps them identify characters tremendously if they recognize them from the films! {{unsigned|Serpent Lord of Harad}}

:You're very welcome, Serpent Lord of Harad, I'm glad to have you on board! With regard to images of characters we always include images from the films in the "Portrayal in adaptations" section but prefer non-film-derived artwork for the infobox images. I hope this helps! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:35, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Ok thank you! I have another question: should the pages for the Haradrim and the Easterling have info Boxes?

User talk:Mith/2014

2014-09-20T21:31:25Z

Serpent Lord of Harad: Hello!

{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013}}
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''⇒ Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table>


== hey thanks for the welcome==

Hello mith and thanks for the welcome! I am a real Tolkien enthusiast and would love to take on any tasks you would like to entrust me with. I have one question: is there a restriction on movie related images? I'd be willing to help put some of the New Line cinema film portraits of the characters into info boxes if you would like (I would source obviously). I just think the audiences have seen the movies so it helps them identify characters tremendously if they recognize them from the films!

== Thanks for the welcome ==

Hi, Mith. I just threw in a lot of stuff (mostly in the refs) about "Bullroarer" in [[Bandobras Took#Etymology]], with sources going about 3 levels deep. Dammit, this site is feeding my addictions! --[[User:Thnidu|Thnidu]] 10:34, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

:Hi Thnidu, you're very welcome and we're glad to have you one board! My colleague, [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]], has undone your edit as you've reference Wikipedia; on Tolkien Gateway we don't reference Wikipedia but feel free to use the exact same sources that they use! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:16, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

== I'm new ==

Hey mith I'm trying to get more involved on here can you help me guide me some I'm new to this and feel slightly overwhelmed thanks [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 03:26, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

:Hi Neumanjames2010, I'm pleased that you are so keen to get more involved. What exactly would you like help with? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:17, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

::just unsure where i can help more and to get more involved with the community [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 10:24, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

::Hey mith I dont know how to make or use info boxes other than user boxes I was thinking we could add the instruments to the 13 dwarves in thorin co. [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 12:12, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

:::I can't really direct you about where you can help - everyone just helps out, independently, wherever they feel most able. Do you have any particular Tolkienian interests?
:::Your idea about the instruments is a good one, but it does only apply to Thorin and Company and we do try to keep the infoboxes uniform (the infoboxes don't currently support instruments). I shall have a think! If you want to add an infobox to a page, there is a fairly self-explanatory code on each page - the list of infoboxes is available here: [[:Category:Infobox templates]]. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:56, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

==Sourcing==

Hey mith if I were to clean up the mirkwood and thorin pages are there certain edtions that we tend to use as sourses or can we just use any edition of the original stories [[User:Neumanjames 2010|Throrin Longbeard]] 22:26, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

:With ''[[The Hobbit]]'' there is no preferred edition. With ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' we tend to prefer the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th Anniversary Edition]] as this is fairly universal with consistent pagination. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 22:39, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

== Different ISBNs ==

Would it be much trouble to add extra lines for different ISBNs in (the expanded version of) Template:Book? I stumbled upon the need to add an "Ebook ISBN" in addition to the "Print ISBN" when creating the page for ''[http://www.mcfarlandbooks.com/book-2.php?id=978-0-7864-7438-7 Tolkien in the New Century]''.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:47, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

:Done. I've even done a cool thing whereby if you do put in two ISBNs it changes on the template to read "ISBNs" instead of "ISBN". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

== Minor Hobbits in AUJ EE ==
Tosser Grubb needs a citation, then, by that logic, do all the other Hobbits who appear in the market scene in the extended cut of "An Unexpected Journey" need one as well (the ones actually given character names, at least - Old Gammidge, Old Hob and Fredegar Chubb)? {{unsigned|BalrogTrainer}}
:Yes, I totally agree. I only commented on the one because, at the time, it was the only article I was aware of.
:On the subject of Old Gammidge, have you seen [[Talk:Old Gammidge]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:35, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

::Yes, I didn't realize that character existed when I made the page for the film character... though whether they're intended to be one and the same, it's hard to tell, IMO. Still, I'd have no problem if you (or another mod) merged the two pages.--[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 17:12, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

:::Well, like you I do think it needs to be established that they are the same. I'm not sure how this can be confirmed or not! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:25, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

== The law of Númenor ==

One did not simply change the line of succession to the throne of Númenor. But why not at that time? I think, that's very relevant to TG and to everybody! Greetings, --[[User:TarElessar|TarElessar]] 17:26, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

:I can only suggest that you research the topic and update the article with your findings. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:07, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

::Okay. I'm trying that already. --[[User:TarElessar|TarElessar]] 10:15, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

== Thank you! ==

Thanks for fixing those references for me. I was just trying to tailor up a few articles I saw in need of sourcing/"higher quality standards" according to their messages. Is there a tutorial on here on how to properly make references? I'm familiar with Wikia referencing, but not quite sure how to do it in this layout. [[User:Bloody Mary|Bloody Mary]] 16:54, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

:You're very welcome. I'm not sure how Wikia do things but I thought they were broadly similar. See [[Help:References]] for help on this, which also includes a lot of our citation templates which are ''incredibly'' handy! If you have any questions, just ask. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:26, 20 September 2014 (UTC)