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	<updated>2026-06-12T04:37:10Z</updated>
	<subtitle>User contributions</subtitle>
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	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=D%C3%BAnedain&amp;diff=275013</id>
		<title>Dúnedain</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=D%C3%BAnedain&amp;diff=275013"/>
		<updated>2015-07-22T02:58:06Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[File:Ted Nasmith - The Ships of the Faithful.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - &#039;&#039;The Ships of the Faithful&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
The &#039;&#039;&#039;Dúnedain&#039;&#039;&#039; ([[Sindarin|S]]: &amp;quot;west-men&amp;quot;, pron. {{IPA|[ˈduːnedaɪn]}}), singular &#039;&#039;&#039;Dúnadan&#039;&#039;&#039; (pron. {{IPA|[ˈduːnadan]}}), were the the [[Men]] of [[Númenor]] and their descendants who peopled [[Middle-earth]] in the [[Second Age|Second]] and [[Third Age|Third Ages]]. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some [[Númenóreans]] had settled around the haven of [[Pelargir]], but others, who belonged to the [[Faithful]], fled Númenor just before its [[Downfall of Númenor|destruction]], led by [[Elendil]] and his sons. However there were also other colonies in Middle-earth founded by hostile survivors of the Downfall, known as the [[Black Númenóreans]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Dúnedain formed the [[Realms in Exile]] of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], around the [[Middle Men]] who were ruled by Númenórean lords. Originally ruled by the [[High King of the Dúnedain]], they were divided as the [[Dúnedain of Arnor]] and the [[Dúnedain of the South|Dúnedain of Gondor]]. Their lords and rulers communicated and surveyed their realms with the seven [[Palantíri]] they brought from Númenor, distributed around their lands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the fall of Arnor and then [[Arthedain]], some of the northern Dúnedain became the [[Rangers of the North]]. The surviving Dúnedainic population of Arnor retreated to the Angle south of [[Rivendell]]. In the mean time the southern Dúnedain, the Men of Gondor, intermarried more and more with so-called [[Middle Men]], except in some regions (such as [[Dol Amroth]]).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the [[Fourth Age]], the Dúnedain of Gondor and Arnor were [[Reunited Kingdom|reunited]] under king [[Aragorn|Aragorn II Elessar]] (who was also called &#039;&#039;the Dúnadan&#039;&#039;).&lt;br /&gt;
==Etymology==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Pronounce|Dunedain.mp3|Ardamir}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{quote|I thought you knew enough [[Elvish]] at least to know &#039;&#039;[[dûn|dún]]-[[adan]]&#039;&#039;: Man of the West, Númenórean.|[[Bilbo Baggins]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{FR|Meetings}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They are also called the &#039;&#039;Men of the West&#039;&#039; and the &#039;&#039;Men of Westernesse&#039;&#039; (direct translations of the [[Sindarin]] term) and comes from &#039;&#039;[[dûn]]&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;[[adan]]&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Quenya]] name was &#039;&#039;&#039;Núnatan&#039;&#039;&#039; (pron. {{IPA|[ˈnuːnatan]}}), pl. &#039;&#039;&#039;Núnatani&#039;&#039;&#039; (pron. {{IPA|[nuːˈnatani]}}).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Westron]] name for &#039;&#039;Dúnadan&#039;&#039; was simply &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Adûn]]&#039;&#039;&#039;, &amp;quot;westerner&amp;quot;, but this name was seldom used.&lt;br /&gt;
{{references}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Dunedain}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Dúnedain| ]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pronounced articles]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Dúnedain]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo:peuples:hommes:dunedain]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Dúnedain]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Mouth_of_Sauron&amp;diff=274975</id>
		<title>Mouth of Sauron</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Mouth_of_Sauron&amp;diff=274975"/>
		<updated>2015-07-21T07:03:26Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Late Third Age */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{evil infobox&lt;br /&gt;
| image=[[File:John Howe - The Mouth of Sauron 01.jpg|250px]]&lt;br /&gt;
| name=The Mouth of Sauron&lt;br /&gt;
| pronun=&lt;br /&gt;
| othernames=Mordu&amp;lt;ref name=Mordu/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
| titles=&lt;br /&gt;
| position=Lieutenant of [[Barad-dûr]]&lt;br /&gt;
| location=[[Mordor]]&lt;br /&gt;
| affiliation=[[Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
| language=[[Westron]]&lt;br /&gt;
| birth=&lt;br /&gt;
| birthlocation=&lt;br /&gt;
| rule=&lt;br /&gt;
| death=Probably [[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}&lt;br /&gt;
| deathlocation=&lt;br /&gt;
| age=&lt;br /&gt;
| notablefor=Negotiating with [[Aragorn]] and [[Gandalf]]&lt;br /&gt;
| parentage=&lt;br /&gt;
| siblings=&lt;br /&gt;
| spouse=&lt;br /&gt;
| children=&lt;br /&gt;
| race=[[Men|Man]] ([Black Númenóreans|[Black Númenórean]])&lt;br /&gt;
| gender=Male&lt;br /&gt;
| height=&lt;br /&gt;
| hair=&lt;br /&gt;
| eyes=&lt;br /&gt;
| clothing=Great helm&lt;br /&gt;
| weapons=&lt;br /&gt;
| steed=Black horse&lt;br /&gt;
| gallery=the Mouth of Sauron&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;The Mouth of Sauron&#039;&#039;&#039; was the [[Dark Lord]] [[Sauron]]&#039;s servant and representative at the end of the [[Third Age]]. He had the title Lieutenant of [[Barad-dûr]], since he was so strongly devoted to the Dark Lord. The Mouth of Sauron was one of the [[Black Númenóreans]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Gate&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{RK|V10}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Origins===&lt;br /&gt;
The Mouth of Sauron had served Sauron all his life; a [[Men|Man]] of great stature, he was potentially the equal of the [[Dúnedain]], but had fallen into darkness. It is stated that &amp;quot;he entered the service of the [[Barad-dûr|Dark Tower]] when it first rose again&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Gate&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref group=note&amp;gt;It has been noted that this reference is difficult to interpret; according to [[Appendix B]] the Dark Tower arose first some time after {{SA|3320}} and again in {{TA|2951}}. If the Mouth lived in the Second Age, he would be one of the [[King&#039;s Men]] of [[Númenor]], and probably prolonged his life with sorcery (cf. {{HM|Guide}}, p. 274); in the second interpretation he would serve Sauron only for 68 years, and this would make him a Black Númenórean of [[Umbar]] or [[Harad]]. The second interpretation is more feasible (and supported by [[Michael Martinez]]) but both have been considered.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He had learned much sorcery during his time under Sauron, and knew many of the Dark Lord&#039;s plans. Being more cruel than an [[Orcs|Orc]] and cunning, he rose in power and favor. In any case, the Mouth had even forgotten his original name.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Gate&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Late [[Third Age]]===&lt;br /&gt;
The Mouth of Sauron briefly appeared when he haggled with the army of the west in front of the [[Black Gate|Morannon]], trying to convince [[Aragorn]] and [[Gandalf]] to give up and let Sauron win the battle for [[Middle-earth]]. Though he came before Aragorn and his men as an ambassador, he used quite insolent speech when he dealt with them. He tried to intimidate the army into surrendering by showing them the &#039;&#039;[[mithril]]&#039;&#039; coat of [[Frodo Baggins]] to make them think that the [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]] had been captured. When Gandalf turned down his proposal, the Mouth of Sauron set all the armies of [[Barad-dûr]] upon them.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Gate&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Mouth&#039;s fate is nowhere recorded, but it is probable he died in the assault before the Morannon.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|Guide}}, p. 274&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; If he had survived, it is likely that he would have been one of the leaders in the retreat of Sauron&#039;s evil servants after the fall of Barad-dûr.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Names==&lt;br /&gt;
The name of the Mouth of Sauron itself poses an inconsistency in the narrative. Aragorn mentions that the name &amp;quot;Sauron&amp;quot; (meaning &amp;quot;Abominable&amp;quot;) is the name used by his enemies, and according to [[Aragorn]], Sauron himself did not permit it pronounced.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{TT|III1}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Therefore it would be strange for a servant of Sauron to have a title that includes the word &amp;quot;Sauron&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In an early manuscript, the name of the messenger is said to be &#039;&#039;&#039;Mordu&#039;&#039;&#039;,&amp;lt;ref name=Mordu&amp;gt;{{WR|3|III}}, pp. 256, 267 (Christopher Tolkien notes that the reading is uncertain.)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; apparently meaning &amp;quot;Black Darkness&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Black Night&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{webcite|author=Mark Fisher|articleurl=http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/mouthofsauron.html|articlename=Mouth of Sauron|dated=|website=EoA|accessed=14 December 2013}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
==Other versions of the Legendarium==&lt;br /&gt;
In drafts of the &#039;&#039;Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; the Mouth had been envisioned as having being a child snatched by Sauron, and later a [[Gondorians|Gondorian]] renegade.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{WR|3|XIII}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal in adaptations ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Gallery&lt;br /&gt;
|title=Mouth of Sauron in adaptations&lt;br /&gt;
|height=150&lt;br /&gt;
|width=250&lt;br /&gt;
|lines=2&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Return of the King (1980 film) - Mouth of Sauron.jpg|[[The Return of the King (1980 film)|&#039;&#039;The Return of the King&#039;&#039; (1980 film)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Motion Picture Trilogy - Mouth of Sauron.jpg|[[Bruce Spence]] in &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1980: &#039;&#039;[[The Return of the King (1980 film)|The Return of the King]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Mouth of Sauron briefly appears at the Black Gate. He was here portrayed by [[Don Messick]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1981 radio series)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Mouth of Sauron&#039;s role is expanded. He is portrayed as the person who tortures [[Gollum]] into telling Sauron of &amp;quot;Baggins&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Shire&amp;quot;, though he is not named until the credits.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Michael Bakewell]], [[Brian Sibley]] (eds.) [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1981 radio series)]], &amp;quot;[[The Long Awaited Party]]&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[John Rye]] provided the voice of the Mouth of Sauron, symbolising the function of the Lieutenant of Barad-dûr. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2003: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Mouth of Sauron does not appear in the theatrical cut of the movie, but he does appear in the extended version, played by an unrecognizable [[Bruce Spence]]. His helmet, with the words &amp;quot;LAMMEN GORTHAUR&amp;quot; ([[Sindarin]] for &amp;quot;Voice of (Sauron) The Abominable&amp;quot;) in [[Cirth]] written on it, covers his entire face except for his mouth, which is horribly diseased and disfigured by all the evil he has spoken, and disproportionately large, creating an unsettling effect. In fact, much of this spectacle is a result of CGI effects. Actually Jackson conceived this idea long after the footage had been shot and asked his special effects team to create the effect digitally.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The extended DVD cast commentary mentions that Jackson considered different depictions of the character, such as having Kate Winslet (who starred in &#039;&#039;Heavenly Creatures&#039;&#039;, another Jackson film) play the role, partially to emphasize the temptations Aragorn was facing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:In the movie itself, Aragorn decapitates the Mouth of Sauron with [[Andúril|his sword]].  This sequence is often criticized by purist and outsider alike; through human history it was considered a crime of war to execute messengers or heralds.  In the book, the Mouth actually specifically points out that as an ambassador he is protected by the laws of war, and Gandalf acknowledges this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;...though Aragorn did not stir nor move hand to weapon, the other quailed and gave back as if menaced with a blow.  &amp;quot;I am a herald and an ambassador, and may not be assailed!&amp;quot; he cried.  &amp;quot;Where such laws hold,&amp;quot; said Gandalf, &amp;quot;it is also the custom for ambassadors to use less insolence.  But no one has threatened you.  You have naught to fear from us...&amp;quot;&#039;&#039; -- Book V, Chapter 10, &amp;quot;The Black Gate Opens&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[:Category:Images of the Mouth of Sauron|Images of the Mouth of Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references|notes}}&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2011/10/20/how-old-was-the-mouth-of-sauron/ How old was the Mouth of Sauron?] by [[Michael Martinez]]&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Mouth of Sauron}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Black Númenóreans]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Servants of Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Third Age characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de: Saurons Mund]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:bouche_de_sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fa:زبان_سائورون]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Mouth_of_Sauron&amp;diff=274974</id>
		<title>Mouth of Sauron</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Mouth_of_Sauron&amp;diff=274974"/>
		<updated>2015-07-21T07:02:52Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Portrayal in adaptations */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{evil infobox&lt;br /&gt;
| image=[[File:John Howe - The Mouth of Sauron 01.jpg|250px]]&lt;br /&gt;
| name=The Mouth of Sauron&lt;br /&gt;
| pronun=&lt;br /&gt;
| othernames=Mordu&amp;lt;ref name=Mordu/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
| titles=&lt;br /&gt;
| position=Lieutenant of [[Barad-dûr]]&lt;br /&gt;
| location=[[Mordor]]&lt;br /&gt;
| affiliation=[[Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
| language=[[Westron]]&lt;br /&gt;
| birth=&lt;br /&gt;
| birthlocation=&lt;br /&gt;
| rule=&lt;br /&gt;
| death=Probably [[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}&lt;br /&gt;
| deathlocation=&lt;br /&gt;
| age=&lt;br /&gt;
| notablefor=Negotiating with [[Aragorn]] and [[Gandalf]]&lt;br /&gt;
| parentage=&lt;br /&gt;
| siblings=&lt;br /&gt;
| spouse=&lt;br /&gt;
| children=&lt;br /&gt;
| race=[[Men|Man]] ([Black Númenóreans|[Black Númenórean]])&lt;br /&gt;
| gender=Male&lt;br /&gt;
| height=&lt;br /&gt;
| hair=&lt;br /&gt;
| eyes=&lt;br /&gt;
| clothing=Great helm&lt;br /&gt;
| weapons=&lt;br /&gt;
| steed=Black horse&lt;br /&gt;
| gallery=the Mouth of Sauron&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;The Mouth of Sauron&#039;&#039;&#039; was the [[Dark Lord]] [[Sauron]]&#039;s servant and representative at the end of the [[Third Age]]. He had the title Lieutenant of [[Barad-dûr]], since he was so strongly devoted to the Dark Lord. The Mouth of Sauron was one of the [[Black Númenóreans]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Gate&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{RK|V10}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Origins===&lt;br /&gt;
The Mouth of Sauron had served Sauron all his life; a [[Men|Man]] of great stature, he was potentially the equal of the [[Dúnedain]], but had fallen into darkness. It is stated that &amp;quot;he entered the service of the [[Barad-dûr|Dark Tower]] when it first rose again&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Gate&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref group=note&amp;gt;It has been noted that this reference is difficult to interpret; according to [[Appendix B]] the Dark Tower arose first some time after {{SA|3320}} and again in {{TA|2951}}. If the Mouth lived in the Second Age, he would be one of the [[King&#039;s Men]] of [[Númenor]], and probably prolonged his life with sorcery (cf. {{HM|Guide}}, p. 274); in the second interpretation he would serve Sauron only for 68 years, and this would make him a Black Númenórean of [[Umbar]] or [[Harad]]. The second interpretation is more feasible (and supported by [[Michael Martinez]]) but both have been considered.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He had learned much sorcery during his time under Sauron, and knew many of the Dark Lord&#039;s plans. Being more cruel than an [[Orcs|Orc]] and cunning, he rose in power and favor. In any case, the Mouth had even forgotten his original name.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Gate&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Late [[Third Age]]===&lt;br /&gt;
The Mouth of Sauron briefly appeared when he haggled with the army of the west in front of the [[Black Gate|Morannon]], trying to convince [[Aragorn]] and [[Gandalf]] to give up and let Sauron win the battle for [[Middle-earth]]. Though he came before Aragorn and his men as an ambassador, he used quite insolent speech when he dealt with them. He tried to intimidate the army into surrendering by showing them the &#039;&#039;[[mithril]]&#039;&#039; coat of [[Frodo Baggins]] to make them think that the [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]] had been captured. When Gandalf turned down his proposal, the Mouth of Sauron set all the armies of [[Barad-dûr]] upon them.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Gate&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Mouth&#039;s fate is nowhere recorded, and it is probable he died in the assault before the Morannon.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|Guide}}, p. 274&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; If he had survived, it is likely that he would have been one of the leaders in the retreat of Sauron&#039;s evil servants after the fall of Barad-dûr.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Names==&lt;br /&gt;
The name of the Mouth of Sauron itself poses an inconsistency in the narrative. Aragorn mentions that the name &amp;quot;Sauron&amp;quot; (meaning &amp;quot;Abominable&amp;quot;) is the name used by his enemies, and according to [[Aragorn]], Sauron himself did not permit it pronounced.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{TT|III1}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Therefore it would be strange for a servant of Sauron to have a title that includes the word &amp;quot;Sauron&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In an early manuscript, the name of the messenger is said to be &#039;&#039;&#039;Mordu&#039;&#039;&#039;,&amp;lt;ref name=Mordu&amp;gt;{{WR|3|III}}, pp. 256, 267 (Christopher Tolkien notes that the reading is uncertain.)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; apparently meaning &amp;quot;Black Darkness&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Black Night&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{webcite|author=Mark Fisher|articleurl=http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/mouthofsauron.html|articlename=Mouth of Sauron|dated=|website=EoA|accessed=14 December 2013}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
==Other versions of the Legendarium==&lt;br /&gt;
In drafts of the &#039;&#039;Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; the Mouth had been envisioned as having being a child snatched by Sauron, and later a [[Gondorians|Gondorian]] renegade.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{WR|3|XIII}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal in adaptations ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Gallery&lt;br /&gt;
|title=Mouth of Sauron in adaptations&lt;br /&gt;
|height=150&lt;br /&gt;
|width=250&lt;br /&gt;
|lines=2&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Return of the King (1980 film) - Mouth of Sauron.jpg|[[The Return of the King (1980 film)|&#039;&#039;The Return of the King&#039;&#039; (1980 film)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Motion Picture Trilogy - Mouth of Sauron.jpg|[[Bruce Spence]] in &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1980: &#039;&#039;[[The Return of the King (1980 film)|The Return of the King]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Mouth of Sauron briefly appears at the Black Gate. He was here portrayed by [[Don Messick]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1981 radio series)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Mouth of Sauron&#039;s role is expanded. He is portrayed as the person who tortures [[Gollum]] into telling Sauron of &amp;quot;Baggins&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Shire&amp;quot;, though he is not named until the credits.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[J.R.R. Tolkien]], [[Michael Bakewell]], [[Brian Sibley]] (eds.) [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1981 radio series)]], &amp;quot;[[The Long Awaited Party]]&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[John Rye]] provided the voice of the Mouth of Sauron, symbolising the function of the Lieutenant of Barad-dûr. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2003: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Mouth of Sauron does not appear in the theatrical cut of the movie, but he does appear in the extended version, played by an unrecognizable [[Bruce Spence]]. His helmet, with the words &amp;quot;LAMMEN GORTHAUR&amp;quot; ([[Sindarin]] for &amp;quot;Voice of (Sauron) The Abominable&amp;quot;) in [[Cirth]] written on it, covers his entire face except for his mouth, which is horribly diseased and disfigured by all the evil he has spoken, and disproportionately large, creating an unsettling effect. In fact, much of this spectacle is a result of CGI effects. Actually Jackson conceived this idea long after the footage had been shot and asked his special effects team to create the effect digitally.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The extended DVD cast commentary mentions that Jackson considered different depictions of the character, such as having Kate Winslet (who starred in &#039;&#039;Heavenly Creatures&#039;&#039;, another Jackson film) play the role, partially to emphasize the temptations Aragorn was facing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:In the movie itself, Aragorn decapitates the Mouth of Sauron with [[Andúril|his sword]].  This sequence is often criticized by purist and outsider alike; through human history it was considered a crime of war to execute messengers or heralds.  In the book, the Mouth actually specifically points out that as an ambassador he is protected by the laws of war, and Gandalf acknowledges this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;...though Aragorn did not stir nor move hand to weapon, the other quailed and gave back as if menaced with a blow.  &amp;quot;I am a herald and an ambassador, and may not be assailed!&amp;quot; he cried.  &amp;quot;Where such laws hold,&amp;quot; said Gandalf, &amp;quot;it is also the custom for ambassadors to use less insolence.  But no one has threatened you.  You have naught to fear from us...&amp;quot;&#039;&#039; -- Book V, Chapter 10, &amp;quot;The Black Gate Opens&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[:Category:Images of the Mouth of Sauron|Images of the Mouth of Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references|notes}}&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2011/10/20/how-old-was-the-mouth-of-sauron/ How old was the Mouth of Sauron?] by [[Michael Martinez]]&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Mouth of Sauron}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Black Númenóreans]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Servants of Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Third Age characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de: Saurons Mund]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:bouche_de_sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fa:زبان_سائورون]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Senya&amp;diff=272348</id>
		<title>Senya</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Senya&amp;diff=272348"/>
		<updated>2015-07-11T00:12:28Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Other versions of the legendarium */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;__NOTOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senya&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senwa&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; in [[Quenya]] means &amp;quot;usual&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=VT49&amp;gt;{{VT|49a}}, pp. 5, 22&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Etymology==&lt;br /&gt;
The etymology of &#039;&#039;senya&#039;&#039;/&#039;&#039;senwa&#039;&#039; is unknown. [[Patrick H. Wynne]] has suggested that it contains the verbal stem &#039;&#039;[[sen]]&#039;&#039; &amp;quot;let loose, free, let go&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=VT49/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*&#039;&#039;[[sanya]]&#039;&#039; (&amp;quot;regular, normal&amp;quot;)&amp;lt;ref name=VT49/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Other versions of the legendarium==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senya&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; also appears in the chapter &#039;&#039;[[The Disaster of the Gladden Fields]]&#039;&#039;, although unglossed.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{UT|Gladden}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Tolkien fandom|Fans]] have suggested that it could mean &amp;quot;my son&amp;quot;, which seems likely in this case, as it is spoken by Isildur in response to his son Elendur&#039;s use of the word &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;atarinya&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, or &amp;quot;my father&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://universityofarda.tumblr.com/post/60456499601/zeroatthebone-kaywinnet-hey-tolkien|articlename=(Untitled page)|dated=6 September 2013|website=[http://universityofarda.tumblr.com/ University of Arda]|accessed=10 July 2015}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{title|lowercase}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Quenya adjectives]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Senya&amp;diff=272347</id>
		<title>Senya</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Senya&amp;diff=272347"/>
		<updated>2015-07-11T00:11:41Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Other versions of the legendarium */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;__NOTOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senya&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senwa&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; in [[Quenya]] means &amp;quot;usual&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=VT49&amp;gt;{{VT|49a}}, pp. 5, 22&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Etymology==&lt;br /&gt;
The etymology of &#039;&#039;senya&#039;&#039;/&#039;&#039;senwa&#039;&#039; is unknown. [[Patrick H. Wynne]] has suggested that it contains the verbal stem &#039;&#039;[[sen]]&#039;&#039; &amp;quot;let loose, free, let go&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=VT49/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*&#039;&#039;[[sanya]]&#039;&#039; (&amp;quot;regular, normal&amp;quot;)&amp;lt;ref name=VT49/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Other versions of the legendarium==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senya&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; also appears in the chapter &#039;&#039;[[The Disaster of the Gladden Fields]]&#039;&#039;, although unglossed.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{UT|Gladden}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Tolkien fandom|Fans]] have suggested that it could mean &amp;quot;my son&amp;quot;, which seems likely in this case, as it is spoken by Isildur in response to his som&#039;s use of the word &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;atarinya&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;, or &amp;quot;my father&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://universityofarda.tumblr.com/post/60456499601/zeroatthebone-kaywinnet-hey-tolkien|articlename=(Untitled page)|dated=6 September 2013|website=[http://universityofarda.tumblr.com/ University of Arda]|accessed=10 July 2015}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{title|lowercase}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Quenya adjectives]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272346</id>
		<title>User talk:Mith/2015</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272346"/>
		<updated>2015-07-11T00:06:57Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Elendilmir */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table style=&amp;quot;border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td rowspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;div id=&amp;quot;talk&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]&#039;s talk page.&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ul&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} post your new topic at the &#039;&#039;bottom&#039;&#039;] of this page, including a &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;==Descriptive heading==&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;You should sign and date your posts by inserting &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;letter-spacing:.2em;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; at the end of them.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please indent your posts with &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to an existing topic (or &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;::&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to a reply, etc.).&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;I will generally respond &#039;&#039;here&#039;&#039; to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;If I have left a message on &#039;&#039;your&#039;&#039; talk page, please continue the discussion there; &#039;&#039;&#039;DO NOT&#039;&#039;&#039; reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/ul&amp;gt;[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;amp;rArr; Start a new talk topic.&#039;&#039;&#039;]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Hans-Ulrich Möhring ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey Mith! I saw, that you deleted the article about the German translator Hans-Ulrich Möhring (&#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039;) with the comment &#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Just not notable enough&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;. Möhring was now responsible for the German translation of another posthum released work. &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; will be published under the title &#039;&#039;König Arthurs Untergang&#039;&#039; on 21 March, 2015 in Germany, translated by Hans-Ulrich Möhring. I think, that two translations of complex lyrics by J.R.R. Tolkien are enough to legitimate the existence of an article about him. What do you think? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:For me, no (although others might take a different view). We have a painful habit on TG of creating articles about individuals which are essentially one line: &amp;quot;X is a Y who worked on Z.&amp;quot; Is there anything (verifiable) to say about Möhring as translator of &#039;&#039;Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; beyond the fact that he translated them? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:14, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I see what you mean. To write something about his translation work on &#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; (in my opinion) would make no sense in an English Wiki, so the only mentionable point would be the fact, that Möhring corresponded with Tom Shippey while translating. If you think, that the article is of no importance for Tolkien Gateway, then it&#039;s ok. I just wanted to know the reasons. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::If he&#039;d corresponded with Tolkien himself then that would put him in a different category, in my view. My fear is having an article that essentially doesn&#039;t really tell the reader anything. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Page merging question ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey Mith, I went ahead and tackled merging [[Sea-elves]] into [[Teleri]].  I wasn&#039;t sure if my method of merging the pages was right: I copied the wiki-edit text to the other page and edited it some, then marked the original page for deletion.  I changed the links that lead to Sea-elves to [[Falmari]] or Teleri where needed.  I wasn&#039;t sure if this was good or if I needed to do anything else/something different. [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 19:39, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi xsys, and welcome to Tolkien Gateway! To merge a page we transfer the appropriate content and turn the page into a redirect (i.e. we don&#039;t mark it for deletion) - the reason for this is so people who search for &amp;quot;Sea-elves&amp;quot; will be taken to the Teleri page, for example. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::That makes sense.  Thanks! [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 20:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Images==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Good evening. This is [[User talk:2.84.120.176|User2.84.120.176]]. Could you upload upload more images on the page  [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]];I dont have this ability, but you do have this ability. Upload and put these NEW images on the Category:Images from The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies.OK; {{unsignedanon|2.84.120.176}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for getting in touch. Remembering that the DVD of &#039;&#039;The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies&#039;&#039; isn&#039;t out yet (and therefore screencaps aren&#039;t so easy to obtain), do you have any particular images in mind? Or, perhaps you could [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&amp;amp;type=signup sign up to Tolkien Gateway] and upload them yourself? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Reminding==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi Mith, I wonder if you could please check your email? I&#039;ve sent you a request a week ago :) [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 10:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I have received the email but I passed it onto [[User:Hyarion]] to respond. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks a lot. Anyway, I hope that he could reply to us soon, since, as it seems, he does not appear frequently. So here I put this forward again, mean not in the slightest to bother you. We are eager to make contact with Alan Lee, so I would be appreciated if you could give me the email address of him. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 16:44, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I generally don&#039;t give out other people&#039;s email addresses without their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I must apologize for my rudeness and discourtesy. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 23:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Quick Question ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How do you create separate pages on a page that you are creating? {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I don&#039;t understand what you mean. Create a separate page on a page you are creating? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Sort of, you know on a user page how you can create the different subtitles for your pages. I am wondering how to do that. {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::The same as you would create any other page: simply type the pagename as a URL and then press &amp;quot;create an article with that title&amp;quot;. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Oh, thanks {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Mithrellas==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
May I ask why have you deleted the infobox? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 09:49, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You&#039;re going to need to be more specific: what infobox have I deleted? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::My mistake. I have just realized you reverted the edits to the period where there was no infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:43, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::If you&#039;re going to insist on making three, four, five, six - and one occasion, nine! - consecutive edits, things like this will happen. Apologies for reverting the infobox as well but please can you try to learn to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; button and plan you edits. Nine small edits to an article are not necessary. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:59, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I take it back. Your record is actually 10 edits in a row ([[Tréowine]]). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I know how to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; very well...But like I said, it often happens that I forget to include something in an article and have to edit it again. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::You forget nine times in a row? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Maybe &amp;quot;forget&amp;quot; is a wrong word (although not completely). &amp;quot;Change my mind&amp;quot; would be a more appropriate word. Besides, you are editing for years and I, myself, only for a couple of days. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Indeed. I think we&#039;re all aware of that! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Copyright for images==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please, how can I get the copyright for an image that I want to upload, but that isn&#039;t already in the &amp;quot;Category:Evidence of permission granted by copyright holders&amp;quot; section? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You will need to contact the copyright-holder and ask for their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::By e-mail solely? Because I have already contacted a number of artists and they all gave permission. Technicality is my main issue in this matter. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::There needs to be some evidence in case it&#039;s ever challenged. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Here&#039;s one: http://www.deviantart.com/messages/notes/#1_0/1281622023 [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 18:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Obituary title==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039; is the official title of the obituary published in [[Bulletin of the Modern Humanities Research Association 20]] . All references  I consulted used this title.So I think the article it should remain with that name. {{unsigned|Sigurd}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Absolutely not. Aside from the fact I don&#039;t think we need an article for an obituary written for someone on whom we have [[Henry Bradley|a very short article]] (we&#039;d end up with a longer article on the obituary than on the man himself!), naming the article &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; would be ridiculous verbose and unwieldy. If an article must be made it should be something like &amp;quot;Obituary for Henry Bradley&amp;quot;, but I would be against its creation. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:31, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I dont think ridiculous since Tolkien himself give the name to the article. Someone put the same name in reference of that Bulletin 1923 here:[[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien]].And other books I read use the same name.In addition, the obituary contains a poem written by Tolkien in Old English. And also this obituary has his own topic on [[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]([[User:Sigurd|Sigurd]] 21:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC))&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Did Tolkien give the title, or was that the editor? In any case, it is a title of a printed obituary, not an online webpage. Any article title we choose would also be the URL. We aren&#039;t the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia and our usage should not - and does not - reflect what they have done. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ninni-V==&lt;br /&gt;
Can you please rename the pictures of Ninni-V to Antonio Vinci. By the request of the artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Can you please email me where the artists have granted their permission for their work to be hosted on Tolkien Gateway? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:06, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I have asked the permission via note on DeviantArt. What would you like me to do? You cannot access the notes considering they are private and cannot be read unless one is logged in. So....??? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::{{blockquote|Also, as a bit of housekeeping, can you forward to me either a copy of the emails from the artists &#039;&#039;&#039;or a screenprint&#039;&#039;&#039; so we have a bit of a proof - my email is {{nospam|mith|tolkiengateway.net}}. Cheers --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;Yes, I will. But just one reminder: all the images by &#039;&#039;&#039;VunastiMamut&#039;&#039;&#039; are mine. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)|[[User talk:Woolly Mammoth]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::--{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I have send you an email with a screen print for the said artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Thanks. What about the others? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I will. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::I have. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 16:57, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Vandalism==&lt;br /&gt;
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Mith, we have a problem. There is this random guy going by the name of Webbane who is destroying stuff right now! [[User:Bane|Bane]] &lt;br /&gt;
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:He has deleted off my page, yours, Woolly&#039;s, the Forum and a load of paragraphs from articles. Can we remove his account or something??? {{unsigned|Arya}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::It&#039;s all been dealt with now. Isn&#039;t it interesting how a User:Bane and a User:Webbane pop up on the same night! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
You aren&#039;t blaming Bane though [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Why are you deleting MY images??==&lt;br /&gt;
Those images that you have deleted are my artwork! Is this vandalism or what???? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I thought you said that they were all by other people - apologies. Although your picture of Uldor is [http://qnwn.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=116&amp;amp;Itemid=110&amp;amp;page=2 remarkably similar to one by James Adams] (also known as Sporeboy)? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Maybe because I borrowed the pictures from some of (with permission, which I have sent you by email) those guys, aye? Some of the pictures are by other people, AND some of them are mine (namely Elmo, Bór, Uldor, Formenos!). You are behaving like an asshole and you have no right (beside being an administrator), absolutely no right to delete those images!&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Do not speak to me like that again. As an administrator I have every right to delete any image on this website whether it be yours or anyone else&#039;s. &lt;br /&gt;
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:::So, your image of Uldor. Did you &amp;quot;borrow&amp;quot; the one from Sporeboy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I will speak as I want to! And, considering your image of Uldor I granted the permission to use my artwork. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:41, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You will be civil on this wiki or you will leave. Sporeboy gave you permission to amend his image? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Gaurwaith==&lt;br /&gt;
Hello! I know I posted this before on the Template:Gaurwaith talk page, but seriously, why isn&#039;t [[Andvír]] there? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Fun fact: did you know there&#039;s only ever been [[Forum:Ilúvatar infobox|one other user in Tolkien Gateway&#039;s 10-year history to use the phrase &amp;quot;but seriously&amp;quot;]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You did not answer my question. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Because I haven&#039;t finished the template yet (which is why it hasn&#039;t been added to any article). Perhaps you should wait and see first before discussing the matter on two talk pages. Did you know about my fun fact? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::&amp;quot;But seriously&amp;quot;? I reckon you must have spent years searching through every word and sentence on this page to come to that conclusion. And besides, what does that have to do with me? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Nope - took me about 10 seconds. OK. I&#039;ll call it. In my view you are a sockpuppet for Woolly Mammoth. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:42, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::First of all: how did you even come to the conclusion that I&#039;m an alter ego of some other user? I have just signed up and I am already being accused of being a &amp;quot;sockpuppet&amp;quot; for some guy that I have never heard of until now. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::There are quite a number of signs; we&#039;ll be checking IPs later today. If you aren&#039;t WM I do sincerely apologise as this probably makes me look like a bit of a nutter; but if you are WM I have to admit that I am actually a bit impressed by your commitment to Tolkien Gateway that you have created a sockpuppet in order to carry on doing good work. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Music==&lt;br /&gt;
Do we have a license to use [[Tolkien Ensemble]]&#039;s songs on this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:07, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:No. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:16, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Laconic answer...Can we get one? There are images on this site with licenses ranging from artists of Deviantart, to artists of likes of [[John Howe]], [[Alan Lee]] and [[Ted Nasmith]]. Why not include music in this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I doubt it. It&#039;s not something I personally see as desirable, either. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:49, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Have you heard the &amp;quot;Burial Song of Théoden&amp;quot; by Tolkien Ensemble? I think the visitors of this site should be entitled to hear this masterpiece (in my opinion). In any case...I will contact the Tolkien Ensemble myself. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::And yes...one more thing...What about this WM thing you were talking about? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You would have to discuss this with other users (and admins) of this site first before initiating contact with them and seeking to put their songs this website. I personally don&#039;t think it would be appropriate for TG to host songs that people should be paying for. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:03, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::You did not answer my question! What about this WM thing I am accused!? I find myself insulted for, coinsidentally , wanting to expand this wiki as much as it is possible. And for your information, I am an editor on Wikipedia. And I am not talking about paying anything. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::No, but by having their songs on our website we are preventing them from earning money from them. I&#039;m not convinced that that is right. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Pagination==&lt;br /&gt;
I have hi-res scans of &#039;&#039;[[The History of Middle-earth]]&#039;&#039; on my computer. And I have seen before that pagination can be a sort of a mess, when multiple versions of the same book collide together. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The pagination for &#039;&#039;The History of Middle-earth&#039;&#039; series is pretty much consistent (which is why we reference pages for those when we don&#039;t for &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;). How long did it take you to scan them? What is the edition of your hardcopy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Sale of this book without a front cover may be unauthorized. If this book is coverless, it may have been reported to the publisher as “unsold or destroyed” and neither the author nor the publisher may have received payment for it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::A Del Rey® Book Published by The Ballantine Publishing Group&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Copyright © 1983 by Frank Richard Williamson and Christopher Reuel Tolkien as Executors of the Estate of J. R. R. Tolkien&lt;br /&gt;
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::All rights reserved under International and Pan-American Copyright Conventions.&lt;br /&gt;
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::Published in the United States by The Ballantine Publishing Group, a division of Random House, Inc., New York.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Del Rey and colophon are registered trademarks of Random House, Inc.www.delreydigital.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 83-12782&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::ISBN 0-345-37521-1&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::First published in the United States by Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Reprinted by special arrangement with Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Manufactured in the United States of America&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::First Ballantine Books Edition: June 1992&lt;br /&gt;
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::OPM 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:55, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Picture==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, I noticed while skipping through pages that the picture for the page The Road Goes Ever On and On: The Maps of Tolkien&#039;s Middle Earth has nothing to do with the theme of the page as far as I can see. Yes, it&#039;s a picture of a book of maps, but it&#039;s not a picture of the book of maps we are talking about. I am still an utter newbie with this programing, and have no idea how to change the picture to a more accurate one. [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Done. [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Road_Goes_Ever_On_and_On:_The_Map_of_Tolkien%27s_Middle-earth&amp;amp;curid=35192&amp;amp;diff=272100&amp;amp;oldid=214177 Look at the change I&#039;ve made] to see how the coding works. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:52, 5 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Good that. Will be changing quite a few pics myself, correct me if you don&#039;t think that they are right. The titles match!!! :) [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Elendilmir==&lt;br /&gt;
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How should we address the confusion surrounding the number and fates of the different incarnations of the Elendilmir?  See my note on the talk page of the relevant entry. [[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 06:13, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:By discussing it on that article&#039;s talk page, and &#039;&#039;&#039;not&#039;&#039;&#039; on my talk page. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:21, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Sorry if I bothered you.  This was literally the first interaction I&#039;ve had with anyone on this site.  I wasn&#039;t aware that I was doing something wrong.  I asked you because the post on my talk page told me to bring any questions to you.  I won&#039;t make the same mistake again. [[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 04:28, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::A user&#039;s talk page is for them specifically to respond (i.e. an issue directly for that user); an article&#039;s talk page is for discussion about that article (i.e. for anyone in the community). The problem with having a conversation elsewhere is that the discussion/decisions are divorced from the article - in future months/years other users won&#039;t think to look at my talk page to find out why a decision was made. It&#039;s simply good housekeeping to keep everything together with the article.&lt;br /&gt;
:::The welcome message on your talk page wasn&#039;t actually written by me (and I&#039;ve been meaning to change it for a while), but there&#039;s a complicated technical reason why [[User:Mithbot|my bot]] has to leave the message. But when it comes to &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the Council forums or ask me on my talk page.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; the implication - which probably should be clearer - is that &amp;quot;any questions&amp;quot; are about the site/editing/policy/style as opposed to the future of individual articles.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I have obviously seen your contributions on both [[User talk:WadCheber#Welcome!|your own]] and [[User talk:Hyarion#Greeting new users|Hyarion&#039;s]] talk pages - I shall respond to it all here to prevent fragmentation of the conversation. I think &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;After looking through the other entries in his talk page, I got the impression that this is pretty much par for the course with him.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; is unfair - there is only one user, WoollyMammoth, I was very firm with; he had made a lot of edits and was a particularly confrontational user who was [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&amp;amp;type=block subsequently banned by another admin for his behaviour]. That does not indicate someone who &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;is determined to be laconic and/or borderline hostile&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; or who intends to &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;chase people away&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Having said all the above, my previous message was obviously a curt one, for which I apologise; I shouldn&#039;t have been so short with you and should have explained the situation more thoughtfully. On this occasion I did bite the newbie - thank you for calling me out on it. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:48, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::  No problem.  We all make little mistakes.  Thank you for explaining the issue more clearly.  WoollyMammoth sowed the wind, so he reaped the whirlwind.  No fault on your part there.  I was talking about other, less obvious instances in your interactions above, but there is nothing so far beyond the pale as to call your personal qualification as an admin into question.  I was probably a bit overly defensive as well.  Thanks again for the advice and explanation. [[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 22:21, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::In fact, I should probably apologize to you as well.  I think I overreacted.  I was having a bad day myself, and I took it out on you, with very little reason.  [[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 00:06, 11 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272345</id>
		<title>User talk:Mith/2015</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272345"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T22:21:26Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Elendilmir */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table style=&amp;quot;border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td rowspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;div id=&amp;quot;talk&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]&#039;s talk page.&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ul&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} post your new topic at the &#039;&#039;bottom&#039;&#039;] of this page, including a &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;==Descriptive heading==&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;You should sign and date your posts by inserting &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;letter-spacing:.2em;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; at the end of them.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please indent your posts with &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to an existing topic (or &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;::&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to a reply, etc.).&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;I will generally respond &#039;&#039;here&#039;&#039; to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;If I have left a message on &#039;&#039;your&#039;&#039; talk page, please continue the discussion there; &#039;&#039;&#039;DO NOT&#039;&#039;&#039; reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/ul&amp;gt;[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;amp;rArr; Start a new talk topic.&#039;&#039;&#039;]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Hans-Ulrich Möhring ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey Mith! I saw, that you deleted the article about the German translator Hans-Ulrich Möhring (&#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039;) with the comment &#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Just not notable enough&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;. Möhring was now responsible for the German translation of another posthum released work. &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; will be published under the title &#039;&#039;König Arthurs Untergang&#039;&#039; on 21 March, 2015 in Germany, translated by Hans-Ulrich Möhring. I think, that two translations of complex lyrics by J.R.R. Tolkien are enough to legitimate the existence of an article about him. What do you think? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:For me, no (although others might take a different view). We have a painful habit on TG of creating articles about individuals which are essentially one line: &amp;quot;X is a Y who worked on Z.&amp;quot; Is there anything (verifiable) to say about Möhring as translator of &#039;&#039;Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; beyond the fact that he translated them? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:14, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I see what you mean. To write something about his translation work on &#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; (in my opinion) would make no sense in an English Wiki, so the only mentionable point would be the fact, that Möhring corresponded with Tom Shippey while translating. If you think, that the article is of no importance for Tolkien Gateway, then it&#039;s ok. I just wanted to know the reasons. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::If he&#039;d corresponded with Tolkien himself then that would put him in a different category, in my view. My fear is having an article that essentially doesn&#039;t really tell the reader anything. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Page merging question ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey Mith, I went ahead and tackled merging [[Sea-elves]] into [[Teleri]].  I wasn&#039;t sure if my method of merging the pages was right: I copied the wiki-edit text to the other page and edited it some, then marked the original page for deletion.  I changed the links that lead to Sea-elves to [[Falmari]] or Teleri where needed.  I wasn&#039;t sure if this was good or if I needed to do anything else/something different. [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 19:39, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi xsys, and welcome to Tolkien Gateway! To merge a page we transfer the appropriate content and turn the page into a redirect (i.e. we don&#039;t mark it for deletion) - the reason for this is so people who search for &amp;quot;Sea-elves&amp;quot; will be taken to the Teleri page, for example. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::That makes sense.  Thanks! [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 20:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Images==&lt;br /&gt;
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Good evening. This is [[User talk:2.84.120.176|User2.84.120.176]]. Could you upload upload more images on the page  [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]];I dont have this ability, but you do have this ability. Upload and put these NEW images on the Category:Images from The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies.OK; {{unsignedanon|2.84.120.176}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for getting in touch. Remembering that the DVD of &#039;&#039;The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies&#039;&#039; isn&#039;t out yet (and therefore screencaps aren&#039;t so easy to obtain), do you have any particular images in mind? Or, perhaps you could [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&amp;amp;type=signup sign up to Tolkien Gateway] and upload them yourself? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Reminding==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi Mith, I wonder if you could please check your email? I&#039;ve sent you a request a week ago :) [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 10:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I have received the email but I passed it onto [[User:Hyarion]] to respond. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Thanks a lot. Anyway, I hope that he could reply to us soon, since, as it seems, he does not appear frequently. So here I put this forward again, mean not in the slightest to bother you. We are eager to make contact with Alan Lee, so I would be appreciated if you could give me the email address of him. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 16:44, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I generally don&#039;t give out other people&#039;s email addresses without their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I must apologize for my rudeness and discourtesy. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 23:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Quick Question ==&lt;br /&gt;
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How do you create separate pages on a page that you are creating? {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:I don&#039;t understand what you mean. Create a separate page on a page you are creating? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Sort of, you know on a user page how you can create the different subtitles for your pages. I am wondering how to do that. {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The same as you would create any other page: simply type the pagename as a URL and then press &amp;quot;create an article with that title&amp;quot;. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Oh, thanks {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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==Mithrellas==&lt;br /&gt;
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May I ask why have you deleted the infobox? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 09:49, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You&#039;re going to need to be more specific: what infobox have I deleted? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::My mistake. I have just realized you reverted the edits to the period where there was no infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:43, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::If you&#039;re going to insist on making three, four, five, six - and one occasion, nine! - consecutive edits, things like this will happen. Apologies for reverting the infobox as well but please can you try to learn to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; button and plan you edits. Nine small edits to an article are not necessary. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:59, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I take it back. Your record is actually 10 edits in a row ([[Tréowine]]). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I know how to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; very well...But like I said, it often happens that I forget to include something in an article and have to edit it again. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You forget nine times in a row? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Maybe &amp;quot;forget&amp;quot; is a wrong word (although not completely). &amp;quot;Change my mind&amp;quot; would be a more appropriate word. Besides, you are editing for years and I, myself, only for a couple of days. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::Indeed. I think we&#039;re all aware of that! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Copyright for images==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please, how can I get the copyright for an image that I want to upload, but that isn&#039;t already in the &amp;quot;Category:Evidence of permission granted by copyright holders&amp;quot; section? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You will need to contact the copyright-holder and ask for their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::By e-mail solely? Because I have already contacted a number of artists and they all gave permission. Technicality is my main issue in this matter. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::There needs to be some evidence in case it&#039;s ever challenged. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Here&#039;s one: http://www.deviantart.com/messages/notes/#1_0/1281622023 [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 18:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Obituary title==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039; is the official title of the obituary published in [[Bulletin of the Modern Humanities Research Association 20]] . All references  I consulted used this title.So I think the article it should remain with that name. {{unsigned|Sigurd}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Absolutely not. Aside from the fact I don&#039;t think we need an article for an obituary written for someone on whom we have [[Henry Bradley|a very short article]] (we&#039;d end up with a longer article on the obituary than on the man himself!), naming the article &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; would be ridiculous verbose and unwieldy. If an article must be made it should be something like &amp;quot;Obituary for Henry Bradley&amp;quot;, but I would be against its creation. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:31, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I dont think ridiculous since Tolkien himself give the name to the article. Someone put the same name in reference of that Bulletin 1923 here:[[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien]].And other books I read use the same name.In addition, the obituary contains a poem written by Tolkien in Old English. And also this obituary has his own topic on [[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]([[User:Sigurd|Sigurd]] 21:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC))&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Did Tolkien give the title, or was that the editor? In any case, it is a title of a printed obituary, not an online webpage. Any article title we choose would also be the URL. We aren&#039;t the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia and our usage should not - and does not - reflect what they have done. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ninni-V==&lt;br /&gt;
Can you please rename the pictures of Ninni-V to Antonio Vinci. By the request of the artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Can you please email me where the artists have granted their permission for their work to be hosted on Tolkien Gateway? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:06, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I have asked the permission via note on DeviantArt. What would you like me to do? You cannot access the notes considering they are private and cannot be read unless one is logged in. So....??? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::{{blockquote|Also, as a bit of housekeeping, can you forward to me either a copy of the emails from the artists &#039;&#039;&#039;or a screenprint&#039;&#039;&#039; so we have a bit of a proof - my email is {{nospam|mith|tolkiengateway.net}}. Cheers --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;Yes, I will. But just one reminder: all the images by &#039;&#039;&#039;VunastiMamut&#039;&#039;&#039; are mine. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)|[[User talk:Woolly Mammoth]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::--{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I have send you an email with a screen print for the said artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Thanks. What about the others? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I will. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::I have. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 16:57, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Vandalism==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mith, we have a problem. There is this random guy going by the name of Webbane who is destroying stuff right now! [[User:Bane|Bane]] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:He has deleted off my page, yours, Woolly&#039;s, the Forum and a load of paragraphs from articles. Can we remove his account or something??? {{unsigned|Arya}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::It&#039;s all been dealt with now. Isn&#039;t it interesting how a User:Bane and a User:Webbane pop up on the same night! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
You aren&#039;t blaming Bane though [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Why are you deleting MY images??==&lt;br /&gt;
Those images that you have deleted are my artwork! Is this vandalism or what???? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I thought you said that they were all by other people - apologies. Although your picture of Uldor is [http://qnwn.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=116&amp;amp;Itemid=110&amp;amp;page=2 remarkably similar to one by James Adams] (also known as Sporeboy)? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Maybe because I borrowed the pictures from some of (with permission, which I have sent you by email) those guys, aye? Some of the pictures are by other people, AND some of them are mine (namely Elmo, Bór, Uldor, Formenos!). You are behaving like an asshole and you have no right (beside being an administrator), absolutely no right to delete those images!&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Do not speak to me like that again. As an administrator I have every right to delete any image on this website whether it be yours or anyone else&#039;s. &lt;br /&gt;
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:::So, your image of Uldor. Did you &amp;quot;borrow&amp;quot; the one from Sporeboy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I will speak as I want to! And, considering your image of Uldor I granted the permission to use my artwork. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:41, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You will be civil on this wiki or you will leave. Sporeboy gave you permission to amend his image? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Gaurwaith==&lt;br /&gt;
Hello! I know I posted this before on the Template:Gaurwaith talk page, but seriously, why isn&#039;t [[Andvír]] there? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Fun fact: did you know there&#039;s only ever been [[Forum:Ilúvatar infobox|one other user in Tolkien Gateway&#039;s 10-year history to use the phrase &amp;quot;but seriously&amp;quot;]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You did not answer my question. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Because I haven&#039;t finished the template yet (which is why it hasn&#039;t been added to any article). Perhaps you should wait and see first before discussing the matter on two talk pages. Did you know about my fun fact? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::&amp;quot;But seriously&amp;quot;? I reckon you must have spent years searching through every word and sentence on this page to come to that conclusion. And besides, what does that have to do with me? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Nope - took me about 10 seconds. OK. I&#039;ll call it. In my view you are a sockpuppet for Woolly Mammoth. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:42, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::First of all: how did you even come to the conclusion that I&#039;m an alter ego of some other user? I have just signed up and I am already being accused of being a &amp;quot;sockpuppet&amp;quot; for some guy that I have never heard of until now. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::There are quite a number of signs; we&#039;ll be checking IPs later today. If you aren&#039;t WM I do sincerely apologise as this probably makes me look like a bit of a nutter; but if you are WM I have to admit that I am actually a bit impressed by your commitment to Tolkien Gateway that you have created a sockpuppet in order to carry on doing good work. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Music==&lt;br /&gt;
Do we have a license to use [[Tolkien Ensemble]]&#039;s songs on this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:07, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:No. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:16, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Laconic answer...Can we get one? There are images on this site with licenses ranging from artists of Deviantart, to artists of likes of [[John Howe]], [[Alan Lee]] and [[Ted Nasmith]]. Why not include music in this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I doubt it. It&#039;s not something I personally see as desirable, either. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:49, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Have you heard the &amp;quot;Burial Song of Théoden&amp;quot; by Tolkien Ensemble? I think the visitors of this site should be entitled to hear this masterpiece (in my opinion). In any case...I will contact the Tolkien Ensemble myself. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::And yes...one more thing...What about this WM thing you were talking about? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You would have to discuss this with other users (and admins) of this site first before initiating contact with them and seeking to put their songs this website. I personally don&#039;t think it would be appropriate for TG to host songs that people should be paying for. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:03, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::You did not answer my question! What about this WM thing I am accused!? I find myself insulted for, coinsidentally , wanting to expand this wiki as much as it is possible. And for your information, I am an editor on Wikipedia. And I am not talking about paying anything. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::No, but by having their songs on our website we are preventing them from earning money from them. I&#039;m not convinced that that is right. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Pagination==&lt;br /&gt;
I have hi-res scans of &#039;&#039;[[The History of Middle-earth]]&#039;&#039; on my computer. And I have seen before that pagination can be a sort of a mess, when multiple versions of the same book collide together. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The pagination for &#039;&#039;The History of Middle-earth&#039;&#039; series is pretty much consistent (which is why we reference pages for those when we don&#039;t for &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;). How long did it take you to scan them? What is the edition of your hardcopy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Sale of this book without a front cover may be unauthorized. If this book is coverless, it may have been reported to the publisher as “unsold or destroyed” and neither the author nor the publisher may have received payment for it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::A Del Rey® Book Published by The Ballantine Publishing Group&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Copyright © 1983 by Frank Richard Williamson and Christopher Reuel Tolkien as Executors of the Estate of J. R. R. Tolkien&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::All rights reserved under International and Pan-American Copyright Conventions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Published in the United States by The Ballantine Publishing Group, a division of Random House, Inc., New York.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Del Rey and colophon are registered trademarks of Random House, Inc.www.delreydigital.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 83-12782&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::ISBN 0-345-37521-1&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::First published in the United States by Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Reprinted by special arrangement with Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Manufactured in the United States of America&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::First Ballantine Books Edition: June 1992&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::OPM 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:55, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Picture==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, I noticed while skipping through pages that the picture for the page The Road Goes Ever On and On: The Maps of Tolkien&#039;s Middle Earth has nothing to do with the theme of the page as far as I can see. Yes, it&#039;s a picture of a book of maps, but it&#039;s not a picture of the book of maps we are talking about. I am still an utter newbie with this programing, and have no idea how to change the picture to a more accurate one. [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Done. [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Road_Goes_Ever_On_and_On:_The_Map_of_Tolkien%27s_Middle-earth&amp;amp;curid=35192&amp;amp;diff=272100&amp;amp;oldid=214177 Look at the change I&#039;ve made] to see how the coding works. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:52, 5 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Good that. Will be changing quite a few pics myself, correct me if you don&#039;t think that they are right. The titles match!!! :) [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Elendilmir==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How should we address the confusion surrounding the number and fates of the different incarnations of the Elendilmir?  See my note on the talk page of the relevant entry. [[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 06:13, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:By discussing it on that article&#039;s talk page, and &#039;&#039;&#039;not&#039;&#039;&#039; on my talk page. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:21, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Sorry if I bothered you.  This was literally the first interaction I&#039;ve had with anyone on this site.  I wasn&#039;t aware that I was doing something wrong.  I asked you because the post on my talk page told me to bring any questions to you.  I won&#039;t make the same mistake again. [[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 04:28, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::A user&#039;s talk page is for them specifically to respond (i.e. an issue directly for that user); an article&#039;s talk page is for discussion about that article (i.e. for anyone in the community). The problem with having a conversation elsewhere is that the discussion/decisions are divorced from the article - in future months/years other users won&#039;t think to look at my talk page to find out why a decision was made. It&#039;s simply good housekeeping to keep everything together with the article.&lt;br /&gt;
:::The welcome message on your talk page wasn&#039;t actually written by me (and I&#039;ve been meaning to change it for a while), but there&#039;s a complicated technical reason why [[User:Mithbot|my bot]] has to leave the message. But when it comes to &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the Council forums or ask me on my talk page.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; the implication - which probably should be clearer - is that &amp;quot;any questions&amp;quot; are about the site/editing/policy/style as opposed to the future of individual articles.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I have obviously seen your contributions on both [[User talk:WadCheber#Welcome!|your own]] and [[User talk:Hyarion#Greeting new users|Hyarion&#039;s]] talk pages - I shall respond to it all here to prevent fragmentation of the conversation. I think &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;After looking through the other entries in his talk page, I got the impression that this is pretty much par for the course with him.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; is unfair - there is only one user, WoollyMammoth, I was very firm with; he had made a lot of edits and was a particularly confrontational user who was [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&amp;amp;type=block subsequently banned by another admin for his behaviour]. That does not indicate someone who &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;is determined to be laconic and/or borderline hostile&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; or who intends to &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;chase people away&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Having said all the above, my previous message was obviously a curt one, for which I apologise; I shouldn&#039;t have been so short with you and should have explained the situation more thoughtfully. On this occasion I did bite the newbie - thank you for calling me out on it. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:48, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::  No problem.  We all make little mistakes.  Thank you for explaining the issue more clearly.  WoollyMammoth sowed the wind, so he reaped the whirlwind.  No fault on your part there.  I was talking about other, less obvious instances in your interactions above, but there is nothing so far beyond the pale as to call your personal qualification as an admin into question.  I was probably a bit overly defensive as well.  Thanks again for the advice and explanation. [[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 22:21, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:WadCheber&amp;diff=272327</id>
		<title>User talk:WadCheber</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:WadCheber&amp;diff=272327"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T05:10:43Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Template:Welcome|realName=Chad Weber|name=WadCheber}}&lt;br /&gt;
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-- [[User:Mith|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#2F4F4F&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;Mith&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;([[User talk:Mith|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#696969&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;Talk&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#708090&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Contribs&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#778899&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Edits&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]])&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 21:50, 5 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I don&#039;t understand why you would tell me to ask you whatever questions I have, then respond to a question with such a dismissive tone.  There&#039;s a good (i.e., productive and helpful) way to do things, and a bad (i.e., unproductive and unhelpful) way to do things.  If you hadn&#039;t noticed, you seem to have opted for the latter.  It&#039;s probably not the best way to respond to new users, assuming you don&#039;t intend to chase people away from the site. I don&#039;t mean to offend, I&#039;m just not sure if you&#039;re aware of how you came across.  [[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 05:03, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:WadCheber&amp;diff=272326</id>
		<title>User talk:WadCheber</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:WadCheber&amp;diff=272326"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T05:03:47Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;{{Template:Welcome|realName=Chad Weber|name=WadCheber}}&lt;br /&gt;
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-- [[User:Mith|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#2F4F4F&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;Mith&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;([[User talk:Mith|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#696969&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;Talk&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#708090&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Contribs&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#778899&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Edits&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]])&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 21:50, 5 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I don&#039;t understand why you would tell me to ask you whatever questions I have, then respond to such a question with such a dismissive tone.  There&#039;s a good (i.e., productive and helpful) way to do things, and a bad (i.e., unproductive and unhelpful) way to do things.  If you hadn&#039;t noticed, you seem to have opted for the latter.  It&#039;s probably not the best way to respond to new users, assuming you don&#039;t intend to chase people away from the site. [[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 05:03, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:WadCheber&amp;diff=272325</id>
		<title>User talk:WadCheber</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:WadCheber&amp;diff=272325"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T05:03:20Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{{Template:Welcome|realName=Chad Weber|name=WadCheber}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-- [[User:Mith|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#2F4F4F&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;Mith&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;([[User talk:Mith|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#696969&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;Talk&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#708090&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Contribs&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#778899&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Edits&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]])&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 21:50, 5 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I don&#039;t understand why you would tell me to ask you whatever questions I have, then respond to such a question with such a dismissive tone.  There&#039;s a good (i.e., productive and helpful) way to do things, and a bad (i.e., unproductive and unhelpful) way to do things.  If you hadn&#039;t noticed, you seem to have opted for the latter.  It&#039;s probably not the best way to respond to new users, assuming you don&#039;t intend to chase people away from the site.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:WadCheber&amp;diff=272319</id>
		<title>User:WadCheber</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:WadCheber&amp;diff=272319"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T04:53:11Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;I&#039;m relatively new to the wonderful world of Tolkien, but eager to learn more.  I recently started reading his work, covering the basics (&#039;&#039;Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, and The Silmarillion&#039;&#039;) first, and I&#039;m now plowing my way through &#039;&#039;Unfinished Tales&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;The History of Middle-Earth&#039;&#039;, as well as Hammond &amp;amp; Scull&#039;s &#039;&#039;Companion&#039;&#039; and Foster&#039;s &#039;&#039;Complete Guide&#039;&#039;.  I&#039;m not sure what I will do with myself after that.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Be gentle with me - I&#039;m learning as I go, and I&#039;m sure I&#039;ll make plenty of mistakes along the way.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:WadCheber&amp;diff=272318</id>
		<title>User:WadCheber</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:WadCheber&amp;diff=272318"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T04:48:19Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: Created page with &amp;quot;I&amp;#039;m relatively new to the wonderful world of Tolkien, but eager to learn more.  I recently started reading his work, covering the basics (Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, and The S...&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;I&#039;m relatively new to the wonderful world of Tolkien, but eager to learn more.  I recently started reading his work, covering the basics (Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, and The Silmarillion) first,,and I&#039;m now plowing my way through Unfinished Tales and The History of Middle-Earth. I&#039;m not sure what I will do with myself after that.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Be gentle with me - I&#039;m learning as I go, and I&#039;m sure I&#039;ll make plenty of mistakes along the way.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&amp;diff=272317</id>
		<title>User talk:Hyarion</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&amp;diff=272317"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T04:42:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Greeting new users */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{| style=&amp;quot;border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background-color: #f9f9f9; color: black; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 1em; padding: 0.2em; float: right; clear: right;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!align=&amp;quot;center&amp;quot;|[[Image:archive.png|50px|Archive]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;Archives&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 1|2005]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 2|2006]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 3|2007]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 4|2008]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 5|2009]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 6|2010]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
{{usertalk}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== valimar ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi Hyarion, I&#039;m one of the Founders &amp;amp; Bureaucrats of [http://wiki.valimar.ir/index.php?title=%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C valimar] (and also one of [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B1:PHoBiA the admins] in [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C Persian Wikipedia]). I&#039;m glad that you setup us as your sister-site. I&#039;ll setup reciprocal links to TG articles as soon as possible. Best Regards -- [[User:PHoBiA|PHoBiA]] 19:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
``&lt;br /&gt;
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== Missing Gandalf edit in recent changes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The database seems to have behaved strangely when I edited [[Gandalf]]. I removed the occurrences of the word &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; from the article, and couldn&#039;t load the page. However, looking in the article history, my edit is there, but it doesn&#039;t appear in &amp;quot;Recent changes&amp;quot;. And strangely enough, a search for &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; on TG still yields the article &amp;quot;Gandalf&amp;quot;, although the word &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; cannot be found (any longer) in the article. Maybe the issue will disappear once the database reloads or refreshes! :-)  --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::While you&#039;re at it, another strange page is the [[Portal:Locations/Category tree]]. This page, which has been changed to a redirect, still seems to carry an imprint in the database somehow. E.g., searching on &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; on TG makes &amp;quot;Portal:Locations/Category Tree&amp;quot; show up. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== what is a Tolkien Mile ? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to me that there is something wrong with using a standard (english) mile for Tolkiens Maps.  The result is a Middle Earth which is too small. Tolkien used a lot of History and Myth from other parts of Northern Europe. Could Tolkiens Mile actually be the &#039;Irish&#039; mile which was used by the English in Ireland for centuries. I will get more detail if needed but I think 1 &#039;irish&#039; mile is equal to 1.27 &#039;english&#039; miles. If this were the case Middle Earth would be 27% greater in size which would be an improvement as there are a number of references to distance which only make sense if the &#039;english&#039; mile is increased substantially.  The &#039;swedish&#039; mile is equal to 6 &#039;english&#039; miles which is too big. {{unsigned|Nuadamor}}&amp;lt;small&amp;gt; (00:01, 22 May 2011).&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If I remember correctly he used a fictional mile, the Númenorean mile. I don&#039;t remember how big that is (but I think it was, the Númenorean feet at least was), but I think it can be found at [[Unfinished Tales]]. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::At Oxonmoot some years ago [[Alex Lewis]] actually gave a talk saying he thought that the scale of the maps was incorrect (sadly, I can&#039;t remember by how much, or indeed, in which direction). The Númenóreans had the &#039;&#039;[[lár]]&#039;&#039; which was very slightly shorter than our league (three miles); there is no indication that Tolkien intended to use anything other than the English statute mile (defined in law since 1592) in the maps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::(I should point out, there is the &amp;quot;Old English mile&amp;quot; which was variously longer than the statute mile - about 1.3 statute miles - but why would Tolkien logically use a different measure?) --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Tolkien’s discussion of the [[Lár|Númenórean league]] refered to by Amroth can be found in the appendix ‘Númenórean linear measures’ in {{UT|Gladden}} - it is 5000 [[ranga]]r of about 38 (imperial) inches, and therefor nearly equal to one statute league of 5280 yards (= three statute miles). It seems this can be taken as evidence that, certainly around the time of the revision of [[The Lord of the Rings]], Tolkien was regarding distances in his [[legendarium]] as described (approximately) in statute leagues and miles.&lt;br /&gt;
:::However, in {{HM|RC}}, (on pp. 22-23 in the 2005 hardbound edition), Tolkien’s notes on two attempts at devising a Hobbit system of linear measures can be found. In one of these attempts he arrives as longest measure at a ‘long mile, or gait mile’, or ‘yong-mile or longmile’ of 2,304 imperial yards. That is certainly very nearly equal to 1.3 statute miles, and so these attempts may be related to the ‘Old English mile’ mentioned by Mith. (There is also a ‘(short) mile, or pace-mile’ of half this length, 1,152 imperial yards.)&lt;br /&gt;
:::But in the other attempt he arrives at a different type of mile, namely one of 1,600 imperial yards, thus being somewhat shorter than the statute mile. And it is only in this attempt that the term ‘league’ is mentioned as containing 3 of these miles. That is in my opinion an obstacle to any supposition that a ‘long’ or ‘Old English’ mile could have been intended in the text of The Lord of the Rings. In fact, all linear measures used in that work are such as were in normal use in the imperial system when Tolkien grew up: inch, foot, ell, fathom, furlong, mile and league; and of these only foot, mile and league turn up in his attempts at a Hobbit system of measures.&lt;br /&gt;
:::And finally, I have never found any reason to consider Tolkien’s Middle-earth as mapped too small. I would be interested in knowing why [[Alex Lewis]] thinks so (or at least thought so a couple of years ago). In fact had Mith said so a week earlier, I would have asked Alex, since I had ample opportunity to discuss it with him over the last weekend. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I would have been unable to posts that had not yet been made! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:38, 27 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Well, of course! I was trying to imply that I wished Nuadamor had posed his question earlier, and you had then replied as promptly as you in fact did, but I got a bit convoluted and cut too much from my sentence. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:17, 28 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== TG is a thoroughly enjoyable read! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hyarion, just wanted to say that this is an excellent Tolkien site and it has been a pleasure to read some of the articles I have come across so far. I can see that a great deal of time and effort has gone into making the site what it is today, a professional-looking, informative and well-built engine of encyclopaedic Tolkien knowledge. I have even been inspired for my own wiki (not Tolkien related) by the way articles and templates have been put together. The skin is amazing too; wish I had something unique instead of the plain vector skin.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do keep up the good work. [[User:Kerchi|Kerchi]] 10:13, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi Kerchi, thanks so much for your compliments! It&#039;s in feedback like yours which makes it all worth it. We look forward to seeing you around. If you have any questions or suggestions feel free to let me know. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You&#039;re welcome. I can see that quality has been an important driving force for those who have put this site together and believe me I know how difficult it can be what with running my own wiki, so I intend to keep having a look around and read a few more articles. --[[User:Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#183a55&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;Kerchi&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;talk&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;|&amp;amp;nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;contribs&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;|&amp;amp;nbsp;[[Special:Editcount/Kerchi/Edits|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;edits&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 22:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Dictionary-style searches ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Being able to search for the English translation of a specific Elvish word (or in any other invented language) would be very useful! Would it be difficult to implement something like this? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To exemplify: let&#039;s say I wanted to know if Tolkien invented some word for &amp;quot;alphabet&amp;quot;. I just type &amp;quot;alphabet&amp;quot; in a search box, which would take me to a &amp;quot;disambig&amp;quot; article suggesting me to read either an article on Noldorin &#039;&#039;tiwdi&#039;&#039; or on Quenya &#039;&#039;tengwanda&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps we can implement this in the current &amp;quot;disambiguation&amp;quot; system (but we would get a huge amount of disambig articles, though!)?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Sounds like a good idea. Maybe it should get an own namespace, so there won&#039;t be too much disambigs. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 11:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Maybe something to discuss in a meeting?--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::This could be a nice basis for a Portal:Languages, don&#039;t you think? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I&#039;m also thinking that if we add an alphabetically-based category to all invented words, we would have both an English-Elvish(et al) and an Elvish(et al)-English list of words. Another solution could perhaps be to have a certain namespace, like &amp;quot;Dictionary Index:A&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Dictionary Index:B&amp;quot;, etc, as a complement to the current Index namespace.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Noting old discussion: [[Forum:Elvish-English and English-Elvish entries]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Start article name with lower-case letters? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would it be possible to do a tech tweak in order to create article names with lower-case letters? IMHO, this would be great for the linguistic articles on words - a standard which also Wiktionary uses. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:All articles have to begin with a capital letter (that&#039;s a technical limitation which can&#039;t be changed). You can use DISPLAYTITLE in order to make it appear as if they begin with a lower-case letter, however (see this working in [[TG:Sandbox]] right now). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:13, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks, I&#039;ll bring it up at the meeting, to see if it&#039;s a good idea or not.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I tried the code DISPLAYTITLE in the article [[brand (word)]], and I noticed that you can also remove the bracketed word - is this preferable or not? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:51, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Long articles ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is causing the problem with the &amp;quot;long&amp;quot; articles? It&#039;s impossible for me to save an edit on &amp;quot;Eriador&amp;quot;. However, another long article, &amp;quot;J.R.R. Tolkien&amp;quot;, causes no problems.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Adding to List of Arda Encyclopedia ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi Hyarion. I&#039;m one of the  [http://wiki.valimar.ir Valimar] administrators. The Biggest Persian Encyclopedia about Arda and Tolkien. I want you to add us in the list of Arda Encyclopedia.(in this [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/List_of_Tolkien_Encyclopedias page]).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have to say we are your sister site.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Best Regards.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Welcome! No problem, your encyclopedia has been added to the list. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tolkien Gateway email addresses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi Hyarion! You promised to look into the prospect of Tolkien Gateway email addresses; has there been any progress? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 15:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hey KA! Yes, I think Google Apps (Free) is going to be our best option. It&#039;s halfway setup and the plan is to have it fully functional by the upcoming meeting. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Awesome! I look forward to it! :) --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 14:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Is it done yet? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 12:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Was I ignored? :( --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==TS permission==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi! I noticed that the Amon Hen articles carry the sentence &amp;quot;Reprinted by kind permission of The Tolkien Society and the named cover artist(s) - all rights reserved.&amp;quot; What exactly does this refer to? I&#039;m pretty sure that cover images and a description of the contents goes under fair use for educational purposes in any country...? Can this &amp;quot;permission&amp;quot; be removed, or moved to a copyright page (as it looks kind of strange in the context of the individual articles)? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I believe the wording came from [[Andrew Butler]] who went to great lengths to make sure even the individual artists were okay with having their cover art displayed on the wiki. I&#039;d agree though that the content most likely falls under fair use and a more minor notation would be suitable. I think some statement is worth having if only to illustrate the extra steps taken to consider the copyright holders. -- [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Alright. I&#039;ll try to remember to bring the issue up at a meeting. Thanks for quick answer! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Numenor ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Isn&#039;t [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Athelas&amp;amp;oldid=186732 this] strange? This old version yields a redlink to &amp;quot;Númenor&amp;quot;. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:32, 22 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: And [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/wiki/N%C3%BAmen%CE%BFr this] is even more strange, while the [[Númenor|real article]] still exists. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 20:17, 22 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hm, definitely must be the way the symbol is translated and encoded. I&#039;ll do some research. Good catch! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Editing Rise of the Witch King Game Campaign Details ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I want to edit campaign details for the ROTWK game.There is a mistake in the last sentence.It is Prince Earnur who destroyed the Witch King not King Arveleg I.Can i have the permission to change the name of the King?? --[[User:Antoinevlah|Antoinevlah]] 17:24, 4 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If this is true, then please go ahead and edit the page.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==On Battle of the Crossings of Poros==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I contacted you on this subject because you created the page and I was not able to create a discussion on it. This page is a complete copy from the page at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/fordsofporos.html--[[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]] 15:08, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:We know about the copies, we&#039;re working on correcting them. If you find any other, just let us know. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for catching that [[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]]. There are still a few articles out there which do not adhere to our current standards. We will rectify this specific article as soon as possible, and as Ederchil mentioned, if you happen to stumble upon any others just let someone know. Thanks for your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:40, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Need Sumner Contact re: Bernie Zuber item ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sumner,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is my second attempt to contact you through this website. And I&#039;m not sure you are Hyarion -- but whoever is will know how to get this message to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am Teny&#039;s friend Anita Farley who auctioned Bernie Zuber&#039;s collection after his death. My email address has changed, and I have lost yours in the process. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My new private email is: pippygpupp (at) charter (dot) net.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please contact me. It is regarding a very rare item I still have from Bernie&#039;s collection.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you,&lt;br /&gt;
Anita&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi Anita, I apologize as I&#039;m afraid I will be of no help, I&#039;m not sure who Sumner is. Sorry! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Jeremy Bennett Helms Deep Art Misattributed ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hyarion,&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
You submitted artwork which is attributed to the wrong artist.  The Jeremy Bennett Helm&#039;s Deep file is actually artwork by Paul Lasaine.  See the links below:&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
[http://lasaineportfolio.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-11-13T21:57:00-08:00&amp;amp;max-results=7&amp;amp;start=21&amp;amp;by-date=false Paul Lasaine Helm&#039;s Deep]&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOTR-MASTER-WORKS-CONCEPT-ARTWORK-HELMS-DEEP-by-JEREMY-BENNETT-/250967454327 Jeremy Bennett Helm&#039;s Deep]&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Note that Bennett&#039;s image has an encampment in the foreground.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thought you should know so you can make the appropriate edits.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Sincerely,&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Emlit|Emlit]] 03:40, 20 October 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== hey! ==&lt;br /&gt;
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thanks for dropping a line, i was also just curious if you wanted me to work on anything in particular? preferably work from video games or appendices, but anything else at all is good too. except for the history of middle earth (for now) as i don&#039;t have that yet! just let me know and i will start off o your &amp;quot;mission&amp;quot;! Thanks!&lt;br /&gt;
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[[User:Bigb131999|Bigb131999]] 02:53, 6 July 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Images ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Are all the images on [[Comic-Con 2006|here]] yours, or did you grab them from somewhere else? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Doesn&#039;t look like any of those were taken by me, I should probably add the fairuse template to it. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 05:56, 17 November 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I agree ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I entirely agree with using the Irish mile.  Also, Middle-earth is small, but there is so much else in [[Arda]].  [[Valinor]], there used to be [[Numenor]], and there are probably several other places as well, along the great ocean.  --[[User:Elvenshieldmaiden|Elvenshieldmaiden]] 22:57, 18 October 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Could someone help me? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I am new here, and I would like help in creating a page for myself, about me. And I don&#039;t know how it works. How do you put in information about yourself, and how do you insert a picture of yourself? Please help me. {{unsigned|Aduilith}}&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi Aduilith! You can visit [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Aduilith&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;redlink=1 User:Aduilith] to edit your user page. You can find some more frequently asked questions at [[Help:Contents]]. If you have any other questions just let us know; it&#039;s great to have you aboard! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 05:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Nature in the Two Towers ==&lt;br /&gt;
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doing an essay on nature in the two towers...any help would be much appreciated.. {{unsigned|Kimzimna}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== Greeting new users  ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;m not sure that Mith is the best person to leave the initial greeting on new users&#039; talk pages.  I saw the greeting on my talk page, which suggested that I bring any questions to him.  I did so, and his response was curt at best, rude at worst.  &lt;br /&gt;
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After looking through the other entries in his talk page, I got the impression that this is pretty much par for the course with him. I&#039;m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume he was having a bad day or something, but I don&#039;t think that this is the case. If he is determined to be laconic and/or borderline hostile, I think someone else should greet new users to the site.&lt;br /&gt;
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If the status quo is maintained, we run the risk of scaring away the greater part of the people who join the site.  It creates the impression that new people are not really welcome here, and their contributions (and especially their questions) are unwanted. I assume that this is not the case.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 04:36, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&amp;diff=272316</id>
		<title>User talk:Hyarion</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&amp;diff=272316"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T04:38:14Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Greeting new users  */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
!align=&amp;quot;center&amp;quot;|[[Image:archive.png|50px|Archive]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;Archives&lt;br /&gt;
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* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 1|2005]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 2|2006]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 3|2007]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 4|2008]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 5|2009]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 6|2010]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
{{usertalk}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== valimar ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi Hyarion, I&#039;m one of the Founders &amp;amp; Bureaucrats of [http://wiki.valimar.ir/index.php?title=%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C valimar] (and also one of [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B1:PHoBiA the admins] in [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C Persian Wikipedia]). I&#039;m glad that you setup us as your sister-site. I&#039;ll setup reciprocal links to TG articles as soon as possible. Best Regards -- [[User:PHoBiA|PHoBiA]] 19:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
``&lt;br /&gt;
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== Missing Gandalf edit in recent changes ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The database seems to have behaved strangely when I edited [[Gandalf]]. I removed the occurrences of the word &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; from the article, and couldn&#039;t load the page. However, looking in the article history, my edit is there, but it doesn&#039;t appear in &amp;quot;Recent changes&amp;quot;. And strangely enough, a search for &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; on TG still yields the article &amp;quot;Gandalf&amp;quot;, although the word &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; cannot be found (any longer) in the article. Maybe the issue will disappear once the database reloads or refreshes! :-)  --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::While you&#039;re at it, another strange page is the [[Portal:Locations/Category tree]]. This page, which has been changed to a redirect, still seems to carry an imprint in the database somehow. E.g., searching on &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; on TG makes &amp;quot;Portal:Locations/Category Tree&amp;quot; show up. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== what is a Tolkien Mile ? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems to me that there is something wrong with using a standard (english) mile for Tolkiens Maps.  The result is a Middle Earth which is too small. Tolkien used a lot of History and Myth from other parts of Northern Europe. Could Tolkiens Mile actually be the &#039;Irish&#039; mile which was used by the English in Ireland for centuries. I will get more detail if needed but I think 1 &#039;irish&#039; mile is equal to 1.27 &#039;english&#039; miles. If this were the case Middle Earth would be 27% greater in size which would be an improvement as there are a number of references to distance which only make sense if the &#039;english&#039; mile is increased substantially.  The &#039;swedish&#039; mile is equal to 6 &#039;english&#039; miles which is too big. {{unsigned|Nuadamor}}&amp;lt;small&amp;gt; (00:01, 22 May 2011).&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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:If I remember correctly he used a fictional mile, the Númenorean mile. I don&#039;t remember how big that is (but I think it was, the Númenorean feet at least was), but I think it can be found at [[Unfinished Tales]]. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::At Oxonmoot some years ago [[Alex Lewis]] actually gave a talk saying he thought that the scale of the maps was incorrect (sadly, I can&#039;t remember by how much, or indeed, in which direction). The Númenóreans had the &#039;&#039;[[lár]]&#039;&#039; which was very slightly shorter than our league (three miles); there is no indication that Tolkien intended to use anything other than the English statute mile (defined in law since 1592) in the maps. &lt;br /&gt;
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::(I should point out, there is the &amp;quot;Old English mile&amp;quot; which was variously longer than the statute mile - about 1.3 statute miles - but why would Tolkien logically use a different measure?) --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Tolkien’s discussion of the [[Lár|Númenórean league]] refered to by Amroth can be found in the appendix ‘Númenórean linear measures’ in {{UT|Gladden}} - it is 5000 [[ranga]]r of about 38 (imperial) inches, and therefor nearly equal to one statute league of 5280 yards (= three statute miles). It seems this can be taken as evidence that, certainly around the time of the revision of [[The Lord of the Rings]], Tolkien was regarding distances in his [[legendarium]] as described (approximately) in statute leagues and miles.&lt;br /&gt;
:::However, in {{HM|RC}}, (on pp. 22-23 in the 2005 hardbound edition), Tolkien’s notes on two attempts at devising a Hobbit system of linear measures can be found. In one of these attempts he arrives as longest measure at a ‘long mile, or gait mile’, or ‘yong-mile or longmile’ of 2,304 imperial yards. That is certainly very nearly equal to 1.3 statute miles, and so these attempts may be related to the ‘Old English mile’ mentioned by Mith. (There is also a ‘(short) mile, or pace-mile’ of half this length, 1,152 imperial yards.)&lt;br /&gt;
:::But in the other attempt he arrives at a different type of mile, namely one of 1,600 imperial yards, thus being somewhat shorter than the statute mile. And it is only in this attempt that the term ‘league’ is mentioned as containing 3 of these miles. That is in my opinion an obstacle to any supposition that a ‘long’ or ‘Old English’ mile could have been intended in the text of The Lord of the Rings. In fact, all linear measures used in that work are such as were in normal use in the imperial system when Tolkien grew up: inch, foot, ell, fathom, furlong, mile and league; and of these only foot, mile and league turn up in his attempts at a Hobbit system of measures.&lt;br /&gt;
:::And finally, I have never found any reason to consider Tolkien’s Middle-earth as mapped too small. I would be interested in knowing why [[Alex Lewis]] thinks so (or at least thought so a couple of years ago). In fact had Mith said so a week earlier, I would have asked Alex, since I had ample opportunity to discuss it with him over the last weekend. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I would have been unable to posts that had not yet been made! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:38, 27 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Well, of course! I was trying to imply that I wished Nuadamor had posed his question earlier, and you had then replied as promptly as you in fact did, but I got a bit convoluted and cut too much from my sentence. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:17, 28 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== TG is a thoroughly enjoyable read! ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hyarion, just wanted to say that this is an excellent Tolkien site and it has been a pleasure to read some of the articles I have come across so far. I can see that a great deal of time and effort has gone into making the site what it is today, a professional-looking, informative and well-built engine of encyclopaedic Tolkien knowledge. I have even been inspired for my own wiki (not Tolkien related) by the way articles and templates have been put together. The skin is amazing too; wish I had something unique instead of the plain vector skin.&lt;br /&gt;
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Do keep up the good work. [[User:Kerchi|Kerchi]] 10:13, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi Kerchi, thanks so much for your compliments! It&#039;s in feedback like yours which makes it all worth it. We look forward to seeing you around. If you have any questions or suggestions feel free to let me know. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You&#039;re welcome. I can see that quality has been an important driving force for those who have put this site together and believe me I know how difficult it can be what with running my own wiki, so I intend to keep having a look around and read a few more articles. --[[User:Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#183a55&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;Kerchi&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;talk&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;|&amp;amp;nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;contribs&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;|&amp;amp;nbsp;[[Special:Editcount/Kerchi/Edits|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;edits&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 22:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dictionary-style searches ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Being able to search for the English translation of a specific Elvish word (or in any other invented language) would be very useful! Would it be difficult to implement something like this? &lt;br /&gt;
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To exemplify: let&#039;s say I wanted to know if Tolkien invented some word for &amp;quot;alphabet&amp;quot;. I just type &amp;quot;alphabet&amp;quot; in a search box, which would take me to a &amp;quot;disambig&amp;quot; article suggesting me to read either an article on Noldorin &#039;&#039;tiwdi&#039;&#039; or on Quenya &#039;&#039;tengwanda&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Perhaps we can implement this in the current &amp;quot;disambiguation&amp;quot; system (but we would get a huge amount of disambig articles, though!)?&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Sounds like a good idea. Maybe it should get an own namespace, so there won&#039;t be too much disambigs. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 11:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Maybe something to discuss in a meeting?--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::This could be a nice basis for a Portal:Languages, don&#039;t you think? &lt;br /&gt;
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::I&#039;m also thinking that if we add an alphabetically-based category to all invented words, we would have both an English-Elvish(et al) and an Elvish(et al)-English list of words. Another solution could perhaps be to have a certain namespace, like &amp;quot;Dictionary Index:A&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Dictionary Index:B&amp;quot;, etc, as a complement to the current Index namespace.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Noting old discussion: [[Forum:Elvish-English and English-Elvish entries]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Start article name with lower-case letters? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Would it be possible to do a tech tweak in order to create article names with lower-case letters? IMHO, this would be great for the linguistic articles on words - a standard which also Wiktionary uses. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:All articles have to begin with a capital letter (that&#039;s a technical limitation which can&#039;t be changed). You can use DISPLAYTITLE in order to make it appear as if they begin with a lower-case letter, however (see this working in [[TG:Sandbox]] right now). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:13, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Thanks, I&#039;ll bring it up at the meeting, to see if it&#039;s a good idea or not.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I tried the code DISPLAYTITLE in the article [[brand (word)]], and I noticed that you can also remove the bracketed word - is this preferable or not? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:51, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Long articles ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What is causing the problem with the &amp;quot;long&amp;quot; articles? It&#039;s impossible for me to save an edit on &amp;quot;Eriador&amp;quot;. However, another long article, &amp;quot;J.R.R. Tolkien&amp;quot;, causes no problems.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Adding to List of Arda Encyclopedia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi Hyarion. I&#039;m one of the  [http://wiki.valimar.ir Valimar] administrators. The Biggest Persian Encyclopedia about Arda and Tolkien. I want you to add us in the list of Arda Encyclopedia.(in this [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/List_of_Tolkien_Encyclopedias page]).&lt;br /&gt;
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I have to say we are your sister site.&lt;br /&gt;
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Best Regards.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Welcome! No problem, your encyclopedia has been added to the list. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tolkien Gateway email addresses ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi Hyarion! You promised to look into the prospect of Tolkien Gateway email addresses; has there been any progress? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 15:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hey KA! Yes, I think Google Apps (Free) is going to be our best option. It&#039;s halfway setup and the plan is to have it fully functional by the upcoming meeting. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]&lt;br /&gt;
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::Awesome! I look forward to it! :) --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 14:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Is it done yet? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 12:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Was I ignored? :( --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==TS permission==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi! I noticed that the Amon Hen articles carry the sentence &amp;quot;Reprinted by kind permission of The Tolkien Society and the named cover artist(s) - all rights reserved.&amp;quot; What exactly does this refer to? I&#039;m pretty sure that cover images and a description of the contents goes under fair use for educational purposes in any country...? Can this &amp;quot;permission&amp;quot; be removed, or moved to a copyright page (as it looks kind of strange in the context of the individual articles)? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I believe the wording came from [[Andrew Butler]] who went to great lengths to make sure even the individual artists were okay with having their cover art displayed on the wiki. I&#039;d agree though that the content most likely falls under fair use and a more minor notation would be suitable. I think some statement is worth having if only to illustrate the extra steps taken to consider the copyright holders. -- [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]&lt;br /&gt;
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::Alright. I&#039;ll try to remember to bring the issue up at a meeting. Thanks for quick answer! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Numenor ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Isn&#039;t [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Athelas&amp;amp;oldid=186732 this] strange? This old version yields a redlink to &amp;quot;Númenor&amp;quot;. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:32, 22 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: And [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/wiki/N%C3%BAmen%CE%BFr this] is even more strange, while the [[Númenor|real article]] still exists. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 20:17, 22 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Hm, definitely must be the way the symbol is translated and encoded. I&#039;ll do some research. Good catch! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Editing Rise of the Witch King Game Campaign Details ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I want to edit campaign details for the ROTWK game.There is a mistake in the last sentence.It is Prince Earnur who destroyed the Witch King not King Arveleg I.Can i have the permission to change the name of the King?? --[[User:Antoinevlah|Antoinevlah]] 17:24, 4 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:If this is true, then please go ahead and edit the page.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==On Battle of the Crossings of Poros==&lt;br /&gt;
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I contacted you on this subject because you created the page and I was not able to create a discussion on it. This page is a complete copy from the page at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/fordsofporos.html--[[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]] 15:08, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:We know about the copies, we&#039;re working on correcting them. If you find any other, just let us know. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for catching that [[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]]. There are still a few articles out there which do not adhere to our current standards. We will rectify this specific article as soon as possible, and as Ederchil mentioned, if you happen to stumble upon any others just let someone know. Thanks for your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:40, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Need Sumner Contact re: Bernie Zuber item ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Sumner,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is my second attempt to contact you through this website. And I&#039;m not sure you are Hyarion -- but whoever is will know how to get this message to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am Teny&#039;s friend Anita Farley who auctioned Bernie Zuber&#039;s collection after his death. My email address has changed, and I have lost yours in the process. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My new private email is: pippygpupp (at) charter (dot) net.&lt;br /&gt;
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Please contact me. It is regarding a very rare item I still have from Bernie&#039;s collection.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thank you,&lt;br /&gt;
Anita&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi Anita, I apologize as I&#039;m afraid I will be of no help, I&#039;m not sure who Sumner is. Sorry! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Jeremy Bennett Helms Deep Art Misattributed ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hyarion,&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
You submitted artwork which is attributed to the wrong artist.  The Jeremy Bennett Helm&#039;s Deep file is actually artwork by Paul Lasaine.  See the links below:&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
[http://lasaineportfolio.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-11-13T21:57:00-08:00&amp;amp;max-results=7&amp;amp;start=21&amp;amp;by-date=false Paul Lasaine Helm&#039;s Deep]&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOTR-MASTER-WORKS-CONCEPT-ARTWORK-HELMS-DEEP-by-JEREMY-BENNETT-/250967454327 Jeremy Bennett Helm&#039;s Deep]&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Note that Bennett&#039;s image has an encampment in the foreground.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thought you should know so you can make the appropriate edits.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Sincerely,&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Emlit|Emlit]] 03:40, 20 October 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== hey! ==&lt;br /&gt;
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thanks for dropping a line, i was also just curious if you wanted me to work on anything in particular? preferably work from video games or appendices, but anything else at all is good too. except for the history of middle earth (for now) as i don&#039;t have that yet! just let me know and i will start off o your &amp;quot;mission&amp;quot;! Thanks!&lt;br /&gt;
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[[User:Bigb131999|Bigb131999]] 02:53, 6 July 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Images ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Are all the images on [[Comic-Con 2006|here]] yours, or did you grab them from somewhere else? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Doesn&#039;t look like any of those were taken by me, I should probably add the fairuse template to it. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 05:56, 17 November 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I agree ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I entirely agree with using the Irish mile.  Also, Middle-earth is small, but there is so much else in [[Arda]].  [[Valinor]], there used to be [[Numenor]], and there are probably several other places as well, along the great ocean.  --[[User:Elvenshieldmaiden|Elvenshieldmaiden]] 22:57, 18 October 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Could someone help me? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I am new here, and I would like help in creating a page for myself, about me. And I don&#039;t know how it works. How do you put in information about yourself, and how do you insert a picture of yourself? Please help me. {{unsigned|Aduilith}}&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi Aduilith! You can visit [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Aduilith&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;redlink=1 User:Aduilith] to edit your user page. You can find some more frequently asked questions at [[Help:Contents]]. If you have any other questions just let us know; it&#039;s great to have you aboard! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 05:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Nature in the Two Towers ==&lt;br /&gt;
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doing an essay on nature in the two towers...any help would be much appreciated.. {{unsigned|Kimzimna}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== Greeting new users  ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;m not sure that Mith is the best person to leave the initial greeting on new users&#039; talk pages.  I saw the greeting on my talk page, which suggested that I bring any questions to him.  I did so, and his response was curt at best, rude at worst.  After looking through the other entries in his talk page, I got the impression that this is pretty much par for the course with him. I&#039;m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume he was having a bad day or something, but I don&#039;t think that this is the case. If he is determined to be laconic and/or borderline hostile, I think someone else should greet new users to the site.  &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 04:36, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&amp;diff=272315</id>
		<title>User talk:Hyarion</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&amp;diff=272315"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T04:37:38Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Nature in the Two Towers */&lt;/p&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
!align=&amp;quot;center&amp;quot;|[[Image:archive.png|50px|Archive]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;Archives&lt;br /&gt;
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* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 1|2005]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 2|2006]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 3|2007]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 4|2008]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 5|2009]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 6|2010]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
{{usertalk}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== valimar ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi Hyarion, I&#039;m one of the Founders &amp;amp; Bureaucrats of [http://wiki.valimar.ir/index.php?title=%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C valimar] (and also one of [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B1:PHoBiA the admins] in [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C Persian Wikipedia]). I&#039;m glad that you setup us as your sister-site. I&#039;ll setup reciprocal links to TG articles as soon as possible. Best Regards -- [[User:PHoBiA|PHoBiA]] 19:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
``&lt;br /&gt;
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== Missing Gandalf edit in recent changes ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The database seems to have behaved strangely when I edited [[Gandalf]]. I removed the occurrences of the word &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; from the article, and couldn&#039;t load the page. However, looking in the article history, my edit is there, but it doesn&#039;t appear in &amp;quot;Recent changes&amp;quot;. And strangely enough, a search for &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; on TG still yields the article &amp;quot;Gandalf&amp;quot;, although the word &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; cannot be found (any longer) in the article. Maybe the issue will disappear once the database reloads or refreshes! :-)  --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::While you&#039;re at it, another strange page is the [[Portal:Locations/Category tree]]. This page, which has been changed to a redirect, still seems to carry an imprint in the database somehow. E.g., searching on &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; on TG makes &amp;quot;Portal:Locations/Category Tree&amp;quot; show up. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== what is a Tolkien Mile ? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems to me that there is something wrong with using a standard (english) mile for Tolkiens Maps.  The result is a Middle Earth which is too small. Tolkien used a lot of History and Myth from other parts of Northern Europe. Could Tolkiens Mile actually be the &#039;Irish&#039; mile which was used by the English in Ireland for centuries. I will get more detail if needed but I think 1 &#039;irish&#039; mile is equal to 1.27 &#039;english&#039; miles. If this were the case Middle Earth would be 27% greater in size which would be an improvement as there are a number of references to distance which only make sense if the &#039;english&#039; mile is increased substantially.  The &#039;swedish&#039; mile is equal to 6 &#039;english&#039; miles which is too big. {{unsigned|Nuadamor}}&amp;lt;small&amp;gt; (00:01, 22 May 2011).&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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:If I remember correctly he used a fictional mile, the Númenorean mile. I don&#039;t remember how big that is (but I think it was, the Númenorean feet at least was), but I think it can be found at [[Unfinished Tales]]. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::At Oxonmoot some years ago [[Alex Lewis]] actually gave a talk saying he thought that the scale of the maps was incorrect (sadly, I can&#039;t remember by how much, or indeed, in which direction). The Númenóreans had the &#039;&#039;[[lár]]&#039;&#039; which was very slightly shorter than our league (three miles); there is no indication that Tolkien intended to use anything other than the English statute mile (defined in law since 1592) in the maps. &lt;br /&gt;
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::(I should point out, there is the &amp;quot;Old English mile&amp;quot; which was variously longer than the statute mile - about 1.3 statute miles - but why would Tolkien logically use a different measure?) --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Tolkien’s discussion of the [[Lár|Númenórean league]] refered to by Amroth can be found in the appendix ‘Númenórean linear measures’ in {{UT|Gladden}} - it is 5000 [[ranga]]r of about 38 (imperial) inches, and therefor nearly equal to one statute league of 5280 yards (= three statute miles). It seems this can be taken as evidence that, certainly around the time of the revision of [[The Lord of the Rings]], Tolkien was regarding distances in his [[legendarium]] as described (approximately) in statute leagues and miles.&lt;br /&gt;
:::However, in {{HM|RC}}, (on pp. 22-23 in the 2005 hardbound edition), Tolkien’s notes on two attempts at devising a Hobbit system of linear measures can be found. In one of these attempts he arrives as longest measure at a ‘long mile, or gait mile’, or ‘yong-mile or longmile’ of 2,304 imperial yards. That is certainly very nearly equal to 1.3 statute miles, and so these attempts may be related to the ‘Old English mile’ mentioned by Mith. (There is also a ‘(short) mile, or pace-mile’ of half this length, 1,152 imperial yards.)&lt;br /&gt;
:::But in the other attempt he arrives at a different type of mile, namely one of 1,600 imperial yards, thus being somewhat shorter than the statute mile. And it is only in this attempt that the term ‘league’ is mentioned as containing 3 of these miles. That is in my opinion an obstacle to any supposition that a ‘long’ or ‘Old English’ mile could have been intended in the text of The Lord of the Rings. In fact, all linear measures used in that work are such as were in normal use in the imperial system when Tolkien grew up: inch, foot, ell, fathom, furlong, mile and league; and of these only foot, mile and league turn up in his attempts at a Hobbit system of measures.&lt;br /&gt;
:::And finally, I have never found any reason to consider Tolkien’s Middle-earth as mapped too small. I would be interested in knowing why [[Alex Lewis]] thinks so (or at least thought so a couple of years ago). In fact had Mith said so a week earlier, I would have asked Alex, since I had ample opportunity to discuss it with him over the last weekend. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I would have been unable to posts that had not yet been made! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:38, 27 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Well, of course! I was trying to imply that I wished Nuadamor had posed his question earlier, and you had then replied as promptly as you in fact did, but I got a bit convoluted and cut too much from my sentence. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:17, 28 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== TG is a thoroughly enjoyable read! ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hyarion, just wanted to say that this is an excellent Tolkien site and it has been a pleasure to read some of the articles I have come across so far. I can see that a great deal of time and effort has gone into making the site what it is today, a professional-looking, informative and well-built engine of encyclopaedic Tolkien knowledge. I have even been inspired for my own wiki (not Tolkien related) by the way articles and templates have been put together. The skin is amazing too; wish I had something unique instead of the plain vector skin.&lt;br /&gt;
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Do keep up the good work. [[User:Kerchi|Kerchi]] 10:13, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi Kerchi, thanks so much for your compliments! It&#039;s in feedback like yours which makes it all worth it. We look forward to seeing you around. If you have any questions or suggestions feel free to let me know. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You&#039;re welcome. I can see that quality has been an important driving force for those who have put this site together and believe me I know how difficult it can be what with running my own wiki, so I intend to keep having a look around and read a few more articles. --[[User:Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#183a55&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;Kerchi&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;talk&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;|&amp;amp;nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;contribs&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;|&amp;amp;nbsp;[[Special:Editcount/Kerchi/Edits|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;edits&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 22:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dictionary-style searches ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Being able to search for the English translation of a specific Elvish word (or in any other invented language) would be very useful! Would it be difficult to implement something like this? &lt;br /&gt;
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To exemplify: let&#039;s say I wanted to know if Tolkien invented some word for &amp;quot;alphabet&amp;quot;. I just type &amp;quot;alphabet&amp;quot; in a search box, which would take me to a &amp;quot;disambig&amp;quot; article suggesting me to read either an article on Noldorin &#039;&#039;tiwdi&#039;&#039; or on Quenya &#039;&#039;tengwanda&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Perhaps we can implement this in the current &amp;quot;disambiguation&amp;quot; system (but we would get a huge amount of disambig articles, though!)?&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Sounds like a good idea. Maybe it should get an own namespace, so there won&#039;t be too much disambigs. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 11:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Maybe something to discuss in a meeting?--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::This could be a nice basis for a Portal:Languages, don&#039;t you think? &lt;br /&gt;
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::I&#039;m also thinking that if we add an alphabetically-based category to all invented words, we would have both an English-Elvish(et al) and an Elvish(et al)-English list of words. Another solution could perhaps be to have a certain namespace, like &amp;quot;Dictionary Index:A&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Dictionary Index:B&amp;quot;, etc, as a complement to the current Index namespace.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Noting old discussion: [[Forum:Elvish-English and English-Elvish entries]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Start article name with lower-case letters? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Would it be possible to do a tech tweak in order to create article names with lower-case letters? IMHO, this would be great for the linguistic articles on words - a standard which also Wiktionary uses. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:All articles have to begin with a capital letter (that&#039;s a technical limitation which can&#039;t be changed). You can use DISPLAYTITLE in order to make it appear as if they begin with a lower-case letter, however (see this working in [[TG:Sandbox]] right now). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:13, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Thanks, I&#039;ll bring it up at the meeting, to see if it&#039;s a good idea or not.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I tried the code DISPLAYTITLE in the article [[brand (word)]], and I noticed that you can also remove the bracketed word - is this preferable or not? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:51, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Long articles ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What is causing the problem with the &amp;quot;long&amp;quot; articles? It&#039;s impossible for me to save an edit on &amp;quot;Eriador&amp;quot;. However, another long article, &amp;quot;J.R.R. Tolkien&amp;quot;, causes no problems.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Adding to List of Arda Encyclopedia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi Hyarion. I&#039;m one of the  [http://wiki.valimar.ir Valimar] administrators. The Biggest Persian Encyclopedia about Arda and Tolkien. I want you to add us in the list of Arda Encyclopedia.(in this [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/List_of_Tolkien_Encyclopedias page]).&lt;br /&gt;
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I have to say we are your sister site.&lt;br /&gt;
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Best Regards.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Welcome! No problem, your encyclopedia has been added to the list. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tolkien Gateway email addresses ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi Hyarion! You promised to look into the prospect of Tolkien Gateway email addresses; has there been any progress? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 15:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hey KA! Yes, I think Google Apps (Free) is going to be our best option. It&#039;s halfway setup and the plan is to have it fully functional by the upcoming meeting. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]&lt;br /&gt;
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::Awesome! I look forward to it! :) --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 14:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Is it done yet? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 12:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Was I ignored? :( --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==TS permission==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi! I noticed that the Amon Hen articles carry the sentence &amp;quot;Reprinted by kind permission of The Tolkien Society and the named cover artist(s) - all rights reserved.&amp;quot; What exactly does this refer to? I&#039;m pretty sure that cover images and a description of the contents goes under fair use for educational purposes in any country...? Can this &amp;quot;permission&amp;quot; be removed, or moved to a copyright page (as it looks kind of strange in the context of the individual articles)? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I believe the wording came from [[Andrew Butler]] who went to great lengths to make sure even the individual artists were okay with having their cover art displayed on the wiki. I&#039;d agree though that the content most likely falls under fair use and a more minor notation would be suitable. I think some statement is worth having if only to illustrate the extra steps taken to consider the copyright holders. -- [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]&lt;br /&gt;
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::Alright. I&#039;ll try to remember to bring the issue up at a meeting. Thanks for quick answer! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Numenor ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Isn&#039;t [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Athelas&amp;amp;oldid=186732 this] strange? This old version yields a redlink to &amp;quot;Númenor&amp;quot;. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:32, 22 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: And [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/wiki/N%C3%BAmen%CE%BFr this] is even more strange, while the [[Númenor|real article]] still exists. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 20:17, 22 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Hm, definitely must be the way the symbol is translated and encoded. I&#039;ll do some research. Good catch! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Editing Rise of the Witch King Game Campaign Details ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I want to edit campaign details for the ROTWK game.There is a mistake in the last sentence.It is Prince Earnur who destroyed the Witch King not King Arveleg I.Can i have the permission to change the name of the King?? --[[User:Antoinevlah|Antoinevlah]] 17:24, 4 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:If this is true, then please go ahead and edit the page.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==On Battle of the Crossings of Poros==&lt;br /&gt;
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I contacted you on this subject because you created the page and I was not able to create a discussion on it. This page is a complete copy from the page at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/fordsofporos.html--[[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]] 15:08, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:We know about the copies, we&#039;re working on correcting them. If you find any other, just let us know. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for catching that [[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]]. There are still a few articles out there which do not adhere to our current standards. We will rectify this specific article as soon as possible, and as Ederchil mentioned, if you happen to stumble upon any others just let someone know. Thanks for your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:40, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Need Sumner Contact re: Bernie Zuber item ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sumner,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is my second attempt to contact you through this website. And I&#039;m not sure you are Hyarion -- but whoever is will know how to get this message to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am Teny&#039;s friend Anita Farley who auctioned Bernie Zuber&#039;s collection after his death. My email address has changed, and I have lost yours in the process. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My new private email is: pippygpupp (at) charter (dot) net.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please contact me. It is regarding a very rare item I still have from Bernie&#039;s collection.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you,&lt;br /&gt;
Anita&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi Anita, I apologize as I&#039;m afraid I will be of no help, I&#039;m not sure who Sumner is. Sorry! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Jeremy Bennett Helms Deep Art Misattributed ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hyarion,&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
You submitted artwork which is attributed to the wrong artist.  The Jeremy Bennett Helm&#039;s Deep file is actually artwork by Paul Lasaine.  See the links below:&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
[http://lasaineportfolio.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-11-13T21:57:00-08:00&amp;amp;max-results=7&amp;amp;start=21&amp;amp;by-date=false Paul Lasaine Helm&#039;s Deep]&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOTR-MASTER-WORKS-CONCEPT-ARTWORK-HELMS-DEEP-by-JEREMY-BENNETT-/250967454327 Jeremy Bennett Helm&#039;s Deep]&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Note that Bennett&#039;s image has an encampment in the foreground.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thought you should know so you can make the appropriate edits.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Sincerely,&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Emlit|Emlit]] 03:40, 20 October 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== hey! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
thanks for dropping a line, i was also just curious if you wanted me to work on anything in particular? preferably work from video games or appendices, but anything else at all is good too. except for the history of middle earth (for now) as i don&#039;t have that yet! just let me know and i will start off o your &amp;quot;mission&amp;quot;! Thanks!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Bigb131999|Bigb131999]] 02:53, 6 July 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Images ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Are all the images on [[Comic-Con 2006|here]] yours, or did you grab them from somewhere else? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Doesn&#039;t look like any of those were taken by me, I should probably add the fairuse template to it. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 05:56, 17 November 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I agree ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I entirely agree with using the Irish mile.  Also, Middle-earth is small, but there is so much else in [[Arda]].  [[Valinor]], there used to be [[Numenor]], and there are probably several other places as well, along the great ocean.  --[[User:Elvenshieldmaiden|Elvenshieldmaiden]] 22:57, 18 October 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Could someone help me? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I am new here, and I would like help in creating a page for myself, about me. And I don&#039;t know how it works. How do you put in information about yourself, and how do you insert a picture of yourself? Please help me. {{unsigned|Aduilith}}&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi Aduilith! You can visit [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Aduilith&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;redlink=1 User:Aduilith] to edit your user page. You can find some more frequently asked questions at [[Help:Contents]]. If you have any other questions just let us know; it&#039;s great to have you aboard! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 05:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Nature in the Two Towers ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
doing an essay on nature in the two towers...any help would be much appreciated.. {{unsigned|Kimzimna}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&amp;diff=272314</id>
		<title>User talk:Hyarion</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&amp;diff=272314"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T04:36:56Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
!align=&amp;quot;center&amp;quot;|[[Image:archive.png|50px|Archive]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;Archives&lt;br /&gt;
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* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 1|2005]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 2|2006]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 3|2007]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 4|2008]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 5|2009]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 6|2010]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
{{usertalk}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== valimar ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi Hyarion, I&#039;m one of the Founders &amp;amp; Bureaucrats of [http://wiki.valimar.ir/index.php?title=%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C valimar] (and also one of [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B1:PHoBiA the admins] in [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87%D9%94_%D8%A7%D8%B5%D9%84%DB%8C Persian Wikipedia]). I&#039;m glad that you setup us as your sister-site. I&#039;ll setup reciprocal links to TG articles as soon as possible. Best Regards -- [[User:PHoBiA|PHoBiA]] 19:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
``&lt;br /&gt;
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== Missing Gandalf edit in recent changes ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The database seems to have behaved strangely when I edited [[Gandalf]]. I removed the occurrences of the word &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; from the article, and couldn&#039;t load the page. However, looking in the article history, my edit is there, but it doesn&#039;t appear in &amp;quot;Recent changes&amp;quot;. And strangely enough, a search for &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; on TG still yields the article &amp;quot;Gandalf&amp;quot;, although the word &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; cannot be found (any longer) in the article. Maybe the issue will disappear once the database reloads or refreshes! :-)  --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::While you&#039;re at it, another strange page is the [[Portal:Locations/Category tree]]. This page, which has been changed to a redirect, still seems to carry an imprint in the database somehow. E.g., searching on &amp;quot;human&amp;quot; on TG makes &amp;quot;Portal:Locations/Category Tree&amp;quot; show up. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== what is a Tolkien Mile ? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to me that there is something wrong with using a standard (english) mile for Tolkiens Maps.  The result is a Middle Earth which is too small. Tolkien used a lot of History and Myth from other parts of Northern Europe. Could Tolkiens Mile actually be the &#039;Irish&#039; mile which was used by the English in Ireland for centuries. I will get more detail if needed but I think 1 &#039;irish&#039; mile is equal to 1.27 &#039;english&#039; miles. If this were the case Middle Earth would be 27% greater in size which would be an improvement as there are a number of references to distance which only make sense if the &#039;english&#039; mile is increased substantially.  The &#039;swedish&#039; mile is equal to 6 &#039;english&#039; miles which is too big. {{unsigned|Nuadamor}}&amp;lt;small&amp;gt; (00:01, 22 May 2011).&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If I remember correctly he used a fictional mile, the Númenorean mile. I don&#039;t remember how big that is (but I think it was, the Númenorean feet at least was), but I think it can be found at [[Unfinished Tales]]. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::At Oxonmoot some years ago [[Alex Lewis]] actually gave a talk saying he thought that the scale of the maps was incorrect (sadly, I can&#039;t remember by how much, or indeed, in which direction). The Númenóreans had the &#039;&#039;[[lár]]&#039;&#039; which was very slightly shorter than our league (three miles); there is no indication that Tolkien intended to use anything other than the English statute mile (defined in law since 1592) in the maps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::(I should point out, there is the &amp;quot;Old English mile&amp;quot; which was variously longer than the statute mile - about 1.3 statute miles - but why would Tolkien logically use a different measure?) --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Tolkien’s discussion of the [[Lár|Númenórean league]] refered to by Amroth can be found in the appendix ‘Númenórean linear measures’ in {{UT|Gladden}} - it is 5000 [[ranga]]r of about 38 (imperial) inches, and therefor nearly equal to one statute league of 5280 yards (= three statute miles). It seems this can be taken as evidence that, certainly around the time of the revision of [[The Lord of the Rings]], Tolkien was regarding distances in his [[legendarium]] as described (approximately) in statute leagues and miles.&lt;br /&gt;
:::However, in {{HM|RC}}, (on pp. 22-23 in the 2005 hardbound edition), Tolkien’s notes on two attempts at devising a Hobbit system of linear measures can be found. In one of these attempts he arrives as longest measure at a ‘long mile, or gait mile’, or ‘yong-mile or longmile’ of 2,304 imperial yards. That is certainly very nearly equal to 1.3 statute miles, and so these attempts may be related to the ‘Old English mile’ mentioned by Mith. (There is also a ‘(short) mile, or pace-mile’ of half this length, 1,152 imperial yards.)&lt;br /&gt;
:::But in the other attempt he arrives at a different type of mile, namely one of 1,600 imperial yards, thus being somewhat shorter than the statute mile. And it is only in this attempt that the term ‘league’ is mentioned as containing 3 of these miles. That is in my opinion an obstacle to any supposition that a ‘long’ or ‘Old English’ mile could have been intended in the text of The Lord of the Rings. In fact, all linear measures used in that work are such as were in normal use in the imperial system when Tolkien grew up: inch, foot, ell, fathom, furlong, mile and league; and of these only foot, mile and league turn up in his attempts at a Hobbit system of measures.&lt;br /&gt;
:::And finally, I have never found any reason to consider Tolkien’s Middle-earth as mapped too small. I would be interested in knowing why [[Alex Lewis]] thinks so (or at least thought so a couple of years ago). In fact had Mith said so a week earlier, I would have asked Alex, since I had ample opportunity to discuss it with him over the last weekend. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I would have been unable to posts that had not yet been made! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:38, 27 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Well, of course! I was trying to imply that I wished Nuadamor had posed his question earlier, and you had then replied as promptly as you in fact did, but I got a bit convoluted and cut too much from my sentence. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:17, 28 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== TG is a thoroughly enjoyable read! ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hyarion, just wanted to say that this is an excellent Tolkien site and it has been a pleasure to read some of the articles I have come across so far. I can see that a great deal of time and effort has gone into making the site what it is today, a professional-looking, informative and well-built engine of encyclopaedic Tolkien knowledge. I have even been inspired for my own wiki (not Tolkien related) by the way articles and templates have been put together. The skin is amazing too; wish I had something unique instead of the plain vector skin.&lt;br /&gt;
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Do keep up the good work. [[User:Kerchi|Kerchi]] 10:13, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi Kerchi, thanks so much for your compliments! It&#039;s in feedback like yours which makes it all worth it. We look forward to seeing you around. If you have any questions or suggestions feel free to let me know. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 22:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You&#039;re welcome. I can see that quality has been an important driving force for those who have put this site together and believe me I know how difficult it can be what with running my own wiki, so I intend to keep having a look around and read a few more articles. --[[User:Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#183a55&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;Kerchi&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;talk&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;|&amp;amp;nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Kerchi|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;contribs&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;amp;nbsp;|&amp;amp;nbsp;[[Special:Editcount/Kerchi/Edits|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#aaaaaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;edits&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 22:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dictionary-style searches ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Being able to search for the English translation of a specific Elvish word (or in any other invented language) would be very useful! Would it be difficult to implement something like this? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To exemplify: let&#039;s say I wanted to know if Tolkien invented some word for &amp;quot;alphabet&amp;quot;. I just type &amp;quot;alphabet&amp;quot; in a search box, which would take me to a &amp;quot;disambig&amp;quot; article suggesting me to read either an article on Noldorin &#039;&#039;tiwdi&#039;&#039; or on Quenya &#039;&#039;tengwanda&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps we can implement this in the current &amp;quot;disambiguation&amp;quot; system (but we would get a huge amount of disambig articles, though!)?&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Sounds like a good idea. Maybe it should get an own namespace, so there won&#039;t be too much disambigs. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 11:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Maybe something to discuss in a meeting?--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::This could be a nice basis for a Portal:Languages, don&#039;t you think? &lt;br /&gt;
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::I&#039;m also thinking that if we add an alphabetically-based category to all invented words, we would have both an English-Elvish(et al) and an Elvish(et al)-English list of words. Another solution could perhaps be to have a certain namespace, like &amp;quot;Dictionary Index:A&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Dictionary Index:B&amp;quot;, etc, as a complement to the current Index namespace.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 12:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Noting old discussion: [[Forum:Elvish-English and English-Elvish entries]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Start article name with lower-case letters? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Would it be possible to do a tech tweak in order to create article names with lower-case letters? IMHO, this would be great for the linguistic articles on words - a standard which also Wiktionary uses. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:All articles have to begin with a capital letter (that&#039;s a technical limitation which can&#039;t be changed). You can use DISPLAYTITLE in order to make it appear as if they begin with a lower-case letter, however (see this working in [[TG:Sandbox]] right now). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:13, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Thanks, I&#039;ll bring it up at the meeting, to see if it&#039;s a good idea or not.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 11:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I tried the code DISPLAYTITLE in the article [[brand (word)]], and I noticed that you can also remove the bracketed word - is this preferable or not? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:51, 3 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Long articles ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is causing the problem with the &amp;quot;long&amp;quot; articles? It&#039;s impossible for me to save an edit on &amp;quot;Eriador&amp;quot;. However, another long article, &amp;quot;J.R.R. Tolkien&amp;quot;, causes no problems.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 09:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Adding to List of Arda Encyclopedia ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi Hyarion. I&#039;m one of the  [http://wiki.valimar.ir Valimar] administrators. The Biggest Persian Encyclopedia about Arda and Tolkien. I want you to add us in the list of Arda Encyclopedia.(in this [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/List_of_Tolkien_Encyclopedias page]).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have to say we are your sister site.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Best Regards.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Welcome! No problem, your encyclopedia has been added to the list. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tolkien Gateway email addresses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi Hyarion! You promised to look into the prospect of Tolkien Gateway email addresses; has there been any progress? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 15:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hey KA! Yes, I think Google Apps (Free) is going to be our best option. It&#039;s halfway setup and the plan is to have it fully functional by the upcoming meeting. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]&lt;br /&gt;
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::Awesome! I look forward to it! :) --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 14:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Is it done yet? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 12:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Was I ignored? :( --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 22:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==TS permission==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi! I noticed that the Amon Hen articles carry the sentence &amp;quot;Reprinted by kind permission of The Tolkien Society and the named cover artist(s) - all rights reserved.&amp;quot; What exactly does this refer to? I&#039;m pretty sure that cover images and a description of the contents goes under fair use for educational purposes in any country...? Can this &amp;quot;permission&amp;quot; be removed, or moved to a copyright page (as it looks kind of strange in the context of the individual articles)? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I believe the wording came from [[Andrew Butler]] who went to great lengths to make sure even the individual artists were okay with having their cover art displayed on the wiki. I&#039;d agree though that the content most likely falls under fair use and a more minor notation would be suitable. I think some statement is worth having if only to illustrate the extra steps taken to consider the copyright holders. -- [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]&lt;br /&gt;
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::Alright. I&#039;ll try to remember to bring the issue up at a meeting. Thanks for quick answer! --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Numenor ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Isn&#039;t [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Athelas&amp;amp;oldid=186732 this] strange? This old version yields a redlink to &amp;quot;Númenor&amp;quot;. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:32, 22 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: And [http://www.tolkiengateway.net/wiki/N%C3%BAmen%CE%BFr this] is even more strange, while the [[Númenor|real article]] still exists. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 20:17, 22 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Hm, definitely must be the way the symbol is translated and encoded. I&#039;ll do some research. Good catch! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Editing Rise of the Witch King Game Campaign Details ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I want to edit campaign details for the ROTWK game.There is a mistake in the last sentence.It is Prince Earnur who destroyed the Witch King not King Arveleg I.Can i have the permission to change the name of the King?? --[[User:Antoinevlah|Antoinevlah]] 17:24, 4 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If this is true, then please go ahead and edit the page.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==On Battle of the Crossings of Poros==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I contacted you on this subject because you created the page and I was not able to create a discussion on it. This page is a complete copy from the page at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/fordsofporos.html--[[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]] 15:08, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:We know about the copies, we&#039;re working on correcting them. If you find any other, just let us know. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 16:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for catching that [[Special:Contributions/108.11.228.65|108.11.228.65]]. There are still a few articles out there which do not adhere to our current standards. We will rectify this specific article as soon as possible, and as Ederchil mentioned, if you happen to stumble upon any others just let someone know. Thanks for your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:40, 28 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Need Sumner Contact re: Bernie Zuber item ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sumner,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is my second attempt to contact you through this website. And I&#039;m not sure you are Hyarion -- but whoever is will know how to get this message to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am Teny&#039;s friend Anita Farley who auctioned Bernie Zuber&#039;s collection after his death. My email address has changed, and I have lost yours in the process. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My new private email is: pippygpupp (at) charter (dot) net.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please contact me. It is regarding a very rare item I still have from Bernie&#039;s collection.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you,&lt;br /&gt;
Anita&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi Anita, I apologize as I&#039;m afraid I will be of no help, I&#039;m not sure who Sumner is. Sorry! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Jeremy Bennett Helms Deep Art Misattributed ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hyarion,&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
You submitted artwork which is attributed to the wrong artist.  The Jeremy Bennett Helm&#039;s Deep file is actually artwork by Paul Lasaine.  See the links below:&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
[http://lasaineportfolio.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-11-13T21:57:00-08:00&amp;amp;max-results=7&amp;amp;start=21&amp;amp;by-date=false Paul Lasaine Helm&#039;s Deep]&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOTR-MASTER-WORKS-CONCEPT-ARTWORK-HELMS-DEEP-by-JEREMY-BENNETT-/250967454327 Jeremy Bennett Helm&#039;s Deep]&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Note that Bennett&#039;s image has an encampment in the foreground.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thought you should know so you can make the appropriate edits.&lt;br /&gt;
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Sincerely,&lt;br /&gt;
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[[User:Emlit|Emlit]] 03:40, 20 October 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== hey! ==&lt;br /&gt;
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thanks for dropping a line, i was also just curious if you wanted me to work on anything in particular? preferably work from video games or appendices, but anything else at all is good too. except for the history of middle earth (for now) as i don&#039;t have that yet! just let me know and i will start off o your &amp;quot;mission&amp;quot;! Thanks!&lt;br /&gt;
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[[User:Bigb131999|Bigb131999]] 02:53, 6 July 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Images ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Are all the images on [[Comic-Con 2006|here]] yours, or did you grab them from somewhere else? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Doesn&#039;t look like any of those were taken by me, I should probably add the fairuse template to it. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 05:56, 17 November 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I agree ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I entirely agree with using the Irish mile.  Also, Middle-earth is small, but there is so much else in [[Arda]].  [[Valinor]], there used to be [[Numenor]], and there are probably several other places as well, along the great ocean.  --[[User:Elvenshieldmaiden|Elvenshieldmaiden]] 22:57, 18 October 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Could someone help me? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I am new here, and I would like help in creating a page for myself, about me. And I don&#039;t know how it works. How do you put in information about yourself, and how do you insert a picture of yourself? Please help me. {{unsigned|Aduilith}}&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi Aduilith! You can visit [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Aduilith&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;redlink=1 User:Aduilith] to edit your user page. You can find some more frequently asked questions at [[Help:Contents]]. If you have any other questions just let us know; it&#039;s great to have you aboard! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 05:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Nature in the Two Towers ==&lt;br /&gt;
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doing an essay on nature in the two towers...any help would be much appreciated.. {{unsigned|Kimzimna}}&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;m not sure that Mith is the best person to leave the initial greeting on new users&#039; talk pages.  I saw the greeting on my talk page, which suggested that I bring any questions to him.  I did so, and his response was curt at best, rude at worst.  After looking through the other entries in his talk page, I got the impression that this is pretty much par for the course with him. I&#039;m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume he was having a bad day or something, but I don&#039;t think that this is the case. If he is determined to be laconic and/or borderline hostile, I think someone else should greet new users to the site.  &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 04:36, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272313</id>
		<title>User talk:Mith/2015</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272313"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T04:28:03Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Elendilmir */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table style=&amp;quot;border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td rowspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;div id=&amp;quot;talk&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]&#039;s talk page.&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ul&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} post your new topic at the &#039;&#039;bottom&#039;&#039;] of this page, including a &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;==Descriptive heading==&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;You should sign and date your posts by inserting &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;letter-spacing:.2em;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; at the end of them.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please indent your posts with &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to an existing topic (or &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;::&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to a reply, etc.).&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;I will generally respond &#039;&#039;here&#039;&#039; to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;If I have left a message on &#039;&#039;your&#039;&#039; talk page, please continue the discussion there; &#039;&#039;&#039;DO NOT&#039;&#039;&#039; reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/ul&amp;gt;[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;amp;rArr; Start a new talk topic.&#039;&#039;&#039;]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Hans-Ulrich Möhring ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey Mith! I saw, that you deleted the article about the German translator Hans-Ulrich Möhring (&#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039;) with the comment &#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Just not notable enough&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;. Möhring was now responsible for the German translation of another posthum released work. &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; will be published under the title &#039;&#039;König Arthurs Untergang&#039;&#039; on 21 March, 2015 in Germany, translated by Hans-Ulrich Möhring. I think, that two translations of complex lyrics by J.R.R. Tolkien are enough to legitimate the existence of an article about him. What do you think? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:For me, no (although others might take a different view). We have a painful habit on TG of creating articles about individuals which are essentially one line: &amp;quot;X is a Y who worked on Z.&amp;quot; Is there anything (verifiable) to say about Möhring as translator of &#039;&#039;Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; beyond the fact that he translated them? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:14, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I see what you mean. To write something about his translation work on &#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; (in my opinion) would make no sense in an English Wiki, so the only mentionable point would be the fact, that Möhring corresponded with Tom Shippey while translating. If you think, that the article is of no importance for Tolkien Gateway, then it&#039;s ok. I just wanted to know the reasons. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::If he&#039;d corresponded with Tolkien himself then that would put him in a different category, in my view. My fear is having an article that essentially doesn&#039;t really tell the reader anything. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Page merging question ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey Mith, I went ahead and tackled merging [[Sea-elves]] into [[Teleri]].  I wasn&#039;t sure if my method of merging the pages was right: I copied the wiki-edit text to the other page and edited it some, then marked the original page for deletion.  I changed the links that lead to Sea-elves to [[Falmari]] or Teleri where needed.  I wasn&#039;t sure if this was good or if I needed to do anything else/something different. [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 19:39, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi xsys, and welcome to Tolkien Gateway! To merge a page we transfer the appropriate content and turn the page into a redirect (i.e. we don&#039;t mark it for deletion) - the reason for this is so people who search for &amp;quot;Sea-elves&amp;quot; will be taken to the Teleri page, for example. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::That makes sense.  Thanks! [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 20:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Images==&lt;br /&gt;
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Good evening. This is [[User talk:2.84.120.176|User2.84.120.176]]. Could you upload upload more images on the page  [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]];I dont have this ability, but you do have this ability. Upload and put these NEW images on the Category:Images from The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies.OK; {{unsignedanon|2.84.120.176}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for getting in touch. Remembering that the DVD of &#039;&#039;The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies&#039;&#039; isn&#039;t out yet (and therefore screencaps aren&#039;t so easy to obtain), do you have any particular images in mind? Or, perhaps you could [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&amp;amp;type=signup sign up to Tolkien Gateway] and upload them yourself? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Reminding==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi Mith, I wonder if you could please check your email? I&#039;ve sent you a request a week ago :) [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 10:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I have received the email but I passed it onto [[User:Hyarion]] to respond. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Thanks a lot. Anyway, I hope that he could reply to us soon, since, as it seems, he does not appear frequently. So here I put this forward again, mean not in the slightest to bother you. We are eager to make contact with Alan Lee, so I would be appreciated if you could give me the email address of him. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 16:44, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I generally don&#039;t give out other people&#039;s email addresses without their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I must apologize for my rudeness and discourtesy. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 23:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Quick Question ==&lt;br /&gt;
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How do you create separate pages on a page that you are creating? {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:I don&#039;t understand what you mean. Create a separate page on a page you are creating? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Sort of, you know on a user page how you can create the different subtitles for your pages. I am wondering how to do that. {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The same as you would create any other page: simply type the pagename as a URL and then press &amp;quot;create an article with that title&amp;quot;. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Oh, thanks {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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==Mithrellas==&lt;br /&gt;
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May I ask why have you deleted the infobox? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 09:49, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You&#039;re going to need to be more specific: what infobox have I deleted? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::My mistake. I have just realized you reverted the edits to the period where there was no infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:43, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::If you&#039;re going to insist on making three, four, five, six - and one occasion, nine! - consecutive edits, things like this will happen. Apologies for reverting the infobox as well but please can you try to learn to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; button and plan you edits. Nine small edits to an article are not necessary. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:59, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I take it back. Your record is actually 10 edits in a row ([[Tréowine]]). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I know how to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; very well...But like I said, it often happens that I forget to include something in an article and have to edit it again. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You forget nine times in a row? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Maybe &amp;quot;forget&amp;quot; is a wrong word (although not completely). &amp;quot;Change my mind&amp;quot; would be a more appropriate word. Besides, you are editing for years and I, myself, only for a couple of days. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::Indeed. I think we&#039;re all aware of that! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Copyright for images==&lt;br /&gt;
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Please, how can I get the copyright for an image that I want to upload, but that isn&#039;t already in the &amp;quot;Category:Evidence of permission granted by copyright holders&amp;quot; section? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You will need to contact the copyright-holder and ask for their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::By e-mail solely? Because I have already contacted a number of artists and they all gave permission. Technicality is my main issue in this matter. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::There needs to be some evidence in case it&#039;s ever challenged. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Here&#039;s one: http://www.deviantart.com/messages/notes/#1_0/1281622023 [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 18:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Obituary title==&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039; is the official title of the obituary published in [[Bulletin of the Modern Humanities Research Association 20]] . All references  I consulted used this title.So I think the article it should remain with that name. {{unsigned|Sigurd}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:Absolutely not. Aside from the fact I don&#039;t think we need an article for an obituary written for someone on whom we have [[Henry Bradley|a very short article]] (we&#039;d end up with a longer article on the obituary than on the man himself!), naming the article &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; would be ridiculous verbose and unwieldy. If an article must be made it should be something like &amp;quot;Obituary for Henry Bradley&amp;quot;, but I would be against its creation. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:31, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I dont think ridiculous since Tolkien himself give the name to the article. Someone put the same name in reference of that Bulletin 1923 here:[[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien]].And other books I read use the same name.In addition, the obituary contains a poem written by Tolkien in Old English. And also this obituary has his own topic on [[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]([[User:Sigurd|Sigurd]] 21:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC))&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Did Tolkien give the title, or was that the editor? In any case, it is a title of a printed obituary, not an online webpage. Any article title we choose would also be the URL. We aren&#039;t the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia and our usage should not - and does not - reflect what they have done. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ninni-V==&lt;br /&gt;
Can you please rename the pictures of Ninni-V to Antonio Vinci. By the request of the artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Can you please email me where the artists have granted their permission for their work to be hosted on Tolkien Gateway? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:06, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I have asked the permission via note on DeviantArt. What would you like me to do? You cannot access the notes considering they are private and cannot be read unless one is logged in. So....??? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::{{blockquote|Also, as a bit of housekeeping, can you forward to me either a copy of the emails from the artists &#039;&#039;&#039;or a screenprint&#039;&#039;&#039; so we have a bit of a proof - my email is {{nospam|mith|tolkiengateway.net}}. Cheers --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;Yes, I will. But just one reminder: all the images by &#039;&#039;&#039;VunastiMamut&#039;&#039;&#039; are mine. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)|[[User talk:Woolly Mammoth]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::--{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I have send you an email with a screen print for the said artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Thanks. What about the others? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I will. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::I have. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 16:57, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Vandalism==&lt;br /&gt;
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Mith, we have a problem. There is this random guy going by the name of Webbane who is destroying stuff right now! [[User:Bane|Bane]] &lt;br /&gt;
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:He has deleted off my page, yours, Woolly&#039;s, the Forum and a load of paragraphs from articles. Can we remove his account or something??? {{unsigned|Arya}}&lt;br /&gt;
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::It&#039;s all been dealt with now. Isn&#039;t it interesting how a User:Bane and a User:Webbane pop up on the same night! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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You aren&#039;t blaming Bane though [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Why are you deleting MY images??==&lt;br /&gt;
Those images that you have deleted are my artwork! Is this vandalism or what???? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I thought you said that they were all by other people - apologies. Although your picture of Uldor is [http://qnwn.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=116&amp;amp;Itemid=110&amp;amp;page=2 remarkably similar to one by James Adams] (also known as Sporeboy)? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Maybe because I borrowed the pictures from some of (with permission, which I have sent you by email) those guys, aye? Some of the pictures are by other people, AND some of them are mine (namely Elmo, Bór, Uldor, Formenos!). You are behaving like an asshole and you have no right (beside being an administrator), absolutely no right to delete those images!&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Do not speak to me like that again. As an administrator I have every right to delete any image on this website whether it be yours or anyone else&#039;s. &lt;br /&gt;
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:::So, your image of Uldor. Did you &amp;quot;borrow&amp;quot; the one from Sporeboy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I will speak as I want to! And, considering your image of Uldor I granted the permission to use my artwork. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:41, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You will be civil on this wiki or you will leave. Sporeboy gave you permission to amend his image? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Gaurwaith==&lt;br /&gt;
Hello! I know I posted this before on the Template:Gaurwaith talk page, but seriously, why isn&#039;t [[Andvír]] there? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Fun fact: did you know there&#039;s only ever been [[Forum:Ilúvatar infobox|one other user in Tolkien Gateway&#039;s 10-year history to use the phrase &amp;quot;but seriously&amp;quot;]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You did not answer my question. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Because I haven&#039;t finished the template yet (which is why it hasn&#039;t been added to any article). Perhaps you should wait and see first before discussing the matter on two talk pages. Did you know about my fun fact? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::&amp;quot;But seriously&amp;quot;? I reckon you must have spent years searching through every word and sentence on this page to come to that conclusion. And besides, what does that have to do with me? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Nope - took me about 10 seconds. OK. I&#039;ll call it. In my view you are a sockpuppet for Woolly Mammoth. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:42, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::First of all: how did you even come to the conclusion that I&#039;m an alter ego of some other user? I have just signed up and I am already being accused of being a &amp;quot;sockpuppet&amp;quot; for some guy that I have never heard of until now. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::There are quite a number of signs; we&#039;ll be checking IPs later today. If you aren&#039;t WM I do sincerely apologise as this probably makes me look like a bit of a nutter; but if you are WM I have to admit that I am actually a bit impressed by your commitment to Tolkien Gateway that you have created a sockpuppet in order to carry on doing good work. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Music==&lt;br /&gt;
Do we have a license to use [[Tolkien Ensemble]]&#039;s songs on this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:07, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:No. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:16, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Laconic answer...Can we get one? There are images on this site with licenses ranging from artists of Deviantart, to artists of likes of [[John Howe]], [[Alan Lee]] and [[Ted Nasmith]]. Why not include music in this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I doubt it. It&#039;s not something I personally see as desirable, either. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:49, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Have you heard the &amp;quot;Burial Song of Théoden&amp;quot; by Tolkien Ensemble? I think the visitors of this site should be entitled to hear this masterpiece (in my opinion). In any case...I will contact the Tolkien Ensemble myself. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::And yes...one more thing...What about this WM thing you were talking about? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You would have to discuss this with other users (and admins) of this site first before initiating contact with them and seeking to put their songs this website. I personally don&#039;t think it would be appropriate for TG to host songs that people should be paying for. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:03, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::You did not answer my question! What about this WM thing I am accused!? I find myself insulted for, coinsidentally , wanting to expand this wiki as much as it is possible. And for your information, I am an editor on Wikipedia. And I am not talking about paying anything. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::No, but by having their songs on our website we are preventing them from earning money from them. I&#039;m not convinced that that is right. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Pagination==&lt;br /&gt;
I have hi-res scans of &#039;&#039;[[The History of Middle-earth]]&#039;&#039; on my computer. And I have seen before that pagination can be a sort of a mess, when multiple versions of the same book collide together. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The pagination for &#039;&#039;The History of Middle-earth&#039;&#039; series is pretty much consistent (which is why we reference pages for those when we don&#039;t for &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;). How long did it take you to scan them? What is the edition of your hardcopy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sale of this book without a front cover may be unauthorized. If this book is coverless, it may have been reported to the publisher as “unsold or destroyed” and neither the author nor the publisher may have received payment for it.&lt;br /&gt;
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A Del Rey® Book Published by The Ballantine Publishing Group&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright © 1983 by Frank Richard Williamson and Christopher Reuel Tolkien as Executors of the Estate of J. R. R. Tolkien&lt;br /&gt;
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All rights reserved under International and Pan-American Copyright Conventions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Published in the United States by The Ballantine Publishing Group, a division of Random House, Inc., New York.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Del Rey and colophon are registered trademarks of Random House, Inc.www.delreydigital.com&lt;br /&gt;
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Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 83-12782&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ISBN 0-345-37521-1&lt;br /&gt;
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First published in the United States by Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
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Reprinted by special arrangement with Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Manufactured in the United States of America&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First Ballantine Books Edition: June 1992&lt;br /&gt;
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OPM 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:55, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Picture==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, I noticed while skipping through pages that the picture for the page The Road Goes Ever On and On: The Maps of Tolkien&#039;s Middle Earth has nothing to do with the theme of the page as far as I can see. Yes, it&#039;s a picture of a book of maps, but it&#039;s not a picture of the book of maps we are talking about. I am still an utter newbie with this programing, and have no idea how to change the picture to a more accurate one. [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Done. [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Road_Goes_Ever_On_and_On:_The_Map_of_Tolkien%27s_Middle-earth&amp;amp;curid=35192&amp;amp;diff=272100&amp;amp;oldid=214177 Look at the change I&#039;ve made] to see how the coding works. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:52, 5 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Good that. Will be changing quite a few pics myself, correct me if you don&#039;t think that they are right. The titles match!!! :)  [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Elendilmir==&lt;br /&gt;
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How should we address the confusion surrounding the number and fates of the different incarnations of the Elendilmir?  See my note on the talk page of the relevant entry.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 06:13, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:By discussing it on that article&#039;s talk page, and &#039;&#039;&#039;not&#039;&#039;&#039; on my talk page. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:21, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Sorry if I bothered you.  This was literally the first interaction I&#039;ve had with anyone on this site.  I wasn&#039;t aware that I was doing something wrong.  I asked you because the post on my talk page told me to bring any questions to you.  I won&#039;t make the same mistake again.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 04:28, 10 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272312</id>
		<title>User talk:Mith/2015</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272312"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T04:27:33Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Elendilmir */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table style=&amp;quot;border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td rowspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;div id=&amp;quot;talk&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]&#039;s talk page.&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ul&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} post your new topic at the &#039;&#039;bottom&#039;&#039;] of this page, including a &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;==Descriptive heading==&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;You should sign and date your posts by inserting &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;letter-spacing:.2em;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; at the end of them.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please indent your posts with &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to an existing topic (or &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;::&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to a reply, etc.).&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;I will generally respond &#039;&#039;here&#039;&#039; to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;If I have left a message on &#039;&#039;your&#039;&#039; talk page, please continue the discussion there; &#039;&#039;&#039;DO NOT&#039;&#039;&#039; reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/ul&amp;gt;[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;amp;rArr; Start a new talk topic.&#039;&#039;&#039;]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Hans-Ulrich Möhring ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey Mith! I saw, that you deleted the article about the German translator Hans-Ulrich Möhring (&#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039;) with the comment &#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Just not notable enough&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;. Möhring was now responsible for the German translation of another posthum released work. &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; will be published under the title &#039;&#039;König Arthurs Untergang&#039;&#039; on 21 March, 2015 in Germany, translated by Hans-Ulrich Möhring. I think, that two translations of complex lyrics by J.R.R. Tolkien are enough to legitimate the existence of an article about him. What do you think? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:For me, no (although others might take a different view). We have a painful habit on TG of creating articles about individuals which are essentially one line: &amp;quot;X is a Y who worked on Z.&amp;quot; Is there anything (verifiable) to say about Möhring as translator of &#039;&#039;Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; beyond the fact that he translated them? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:14, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I see what you mean. To write something about his translation work on &#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; (in my opinion) would make no sense in an English Wiki, so the only mentionable point would be the fact, that Möhring corresponded with Tom Shippey while translating. If you think, that the article is of no importance for Tolkien Gateway, then it&#039;s ok. I just wanted to know the reasons. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::If he&#039;d corresponded with Tolkien himself then that would put him in a different category, in my view. My fear is having an article that essentially doesn&#039;t really tell the reader anything. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Page merging question ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey Mith, I went ahead and tackled merging [[Sea-elves]] into [[Teleri]].  I wasn&#039;t sure if my method of merging the pages was right: I copied the wiki-edit text to the other page and edited it some, then marked the original page for deletion.  I changed the links that lead to Sea-elves to [[Falmari]] or Teleri where needed.  I wasn&#039;t sure if this was good or if I needed to do anything else/something different. [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 19:39, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi xsys, and welcome to Tolkien Gateway! To merge a page we transfer the appropriate content and turn the page into a redirect (i.e. we don&#039;t mark it for deletion) - the reason for this is so people who search for &amp;quot;Sea-elves&amp;quot; will be taken to the Teleri page, for example. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::That makes sense.  Thanks! [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 20:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Images==&lt;br /&gt;
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Good evening. This is [[User talk:2.84.120.176|User2.84.120.176]]. Could you upload upload more images on the page  [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]];I dont have this ability, but you do have this ability. Upload and put these NEW images on the Category:Images from The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies.OK; {{unsignedanon|2.84.120.176}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for getting in touch. Remembering that the DVD of &#039;&#039;The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies&#039;&#039; isn&#039;t out yet (and therefore screencaps aren&#039;t so easy to obtain), do you have any particular images in mind? Or, perhaps you could [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&amp;amp;type=signup sign up to Tolkien Gateway] and upload them yourself? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Reminding==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi Mith, I wonder if you could please check your email? I&#039;ve sent you a request a week ago :) [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 10:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I have received the email but I passed it onto [[User:Hyarion]] to respond. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Thanks a lot. Anyway, I hope that he could reply to us soon, since, as it seems, he does not appear frequently. So here I put this forward again, mean not in the slightest to bother you. We are eager to make contact with Alan Lee, so I would be appreciated if you could give me the email address of him. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 16:44, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I generally don&#039;t give out other people&#039;s email addresses without their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I must apologize for my rudeness and discourtesy. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 23:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Quick Question ==&lt;br /&gt;
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How do you create separate pages on a page that you are creating? {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:I don&#039;t understand what you mean. Create a separate page on a page you are creating? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Sort of, you know on a user page how you can create the different subtitles for your pages. I am wondering how to do that. {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The same as you would create any other page: simply type the pagename as a URL and then press &amp;quot;create an article with that title&amp;quot;. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Oh, thanks {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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==Mithrellas==&lt;br /&gt;
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May I ask why have you deleted the infobox? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 09:49, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You&#039;re going to need to be more specific: what infobox have I deleted? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::My mistake. I have just realized you reverted the edits to the period where there was no infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:43, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::If you&#039;re going to insist on making three, four, five, six - and one occasion, nine! - consecutive edits, things like this will happen. Apologies for reverting the infobox as well but please can you try to learn to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; button and plan you edits. Nine small edits to an article are not necessary. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:59, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I take it back. Your record is actually 10 edits in a row ([[Tréowine]]). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I know how to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; very well...But like I said, it often happens that I forget to include something in an article and have to edit it again. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You forget nine times in a row? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Maybe &amp;quot;forget&amp;quot; is a wrong word (although not completely). &amp;quot;Change my mind&amp;quot; would be a more appropriate word. Besides, you are editing for years and I, myself, only for a couple of days. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::Indeed. I think we&#039;re all aware of that! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Copyright for images==&lt;br /&gt;
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Please, how can I get the copyright for an image that I want to upload, but that isn&#039;t already in the &amp;quot;Category:Evidence of permission granted by copyright holders&amp;quot; section? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You will need to contact the copyright-holder and ask for their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::By e-mail solely? Because I have already contacted a number of artists and they all gave permission. Technicality is my main issue in this matter. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::There needs to be some evidence in case it&#039;s ever challenged. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Here&#039;s one: http://www.deviantart.com/messages/notes/#1_0/1281622023 [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 18:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Obituary title==&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039; is the official title of the obituary published in [[Bulletin of the Modern Humanities Research Association 20]] . All references  I consulted used this title.So I think the article it should remain with that name. {{unsigned|Sigurd}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:Absolutely not. Aside from the fact I don&#039;t think we need an article for an obituary written for someone on whom we have [[Henry Bradley|a very short article]] (we&#039;d end up with a longer article on the obituary than on the man himself!), naming the article &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; would be ridiculous verbose and unwieldy. If an article must be made it should be something like &amp;quot;Obituary for Henry Bradley&amp;quot;, but I would be against its creation. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:31, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I dont think ridiculous since Tolkien himself give the name to the article. Someone put the same name in reference of that Bulletin 1923 here:[[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien]].And other books I read use the same name.In addition, the obituary contains a poem written by Tolkien in Old English. And also this obituary has his own topic on [[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]([[User:Sigurd|Sigurd]] 21:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC))&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Did Tolkien give the title, or was that the editor? In any case, it is a title of a printed obituary, not an online webpage. Any article title we choose would also be the URL. We aren&#039;t the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia and our usage should not - and does not - reflect what they have done. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ninni-V==&lt;br /&gt;
Can you please rename the pictures of Ninni-V to Antonio Vinci. By the request of the artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Can you please email me where the artists have granted their permission for their work to be hosted on Tolkien Gateway? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:06, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I have asked the permission via note on DeviantArt. What would you like me to do? You cannot access the notes considering they are private and cannot be read unless one is logged in. So....??? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::{{blockquote|Also, as a bit of housekeeping, can you forward to me either a copy of the emails from the artists &#039;&#039;&#039;or a screenprint&#039;&#039;&#039; so we have a bit of a proof - my email is {{nospam|mith|tolkiengateway.net}}. Cheers --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;Yes, I will. But just one reminder: all the images by &#039;&#039;&#039;VunastiMamut&#039;&#039;&#039; are mine. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)|[[User talk:Woolly Mammoth]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::--{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I have send you an email with a screen print for the said artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Thanks. What about the others? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I will. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::I have. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 16:57, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Vandalism==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mith, we have a problem. There is this random guy going by the name of Webbane who is destroying stuff right now! [[User:Bane|Bane]] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:He has deleted off my page, yours, Woolly&#039;s, the Forum and a load of paragraphs from articles. Can we remove his account or something??? {{unsigned|Arya}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::It&#039;s all been dealt with now. Isn&#039;t it interesting how a User:Bane and a User:Webbane pop up on the same night! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
You aren&#039;t blaming Bane though [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Why are you deleting MY images??==&lt;br /&gt;
Those images that you have deleted are my artwork! Is this vandalism or what???? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I thought you said that they were all by other people - apologies. Although your picture of Uldor is [http://qnwn.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=116&amp;amp;Itemid=110&amp;amp;page=2 remarkably similar to one by James Adams] (also known as Sporeboy)? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Maybe because I borrowed the pictures from some of (with permission, which I have sent you by email) those guys, aye? Some of the pictures are by other people, AND some of them are mine (namely Elmo, Bór, Uldor, Formenos!). You are behaving like an asshole and you have no right (beside being an administrator), absolutely no right to delete those images!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Do not speak to me like that again. As an administrator I have every right to delete any image on this website whether it be yours or anyone else&#039;s. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::So, your image of Uldor. Did you &amp;quot;borrow&amp;quot; the one from Sporeboy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I will speak as I want to! And, considering your image of Uldor I granted the permission to use my artwork. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:41, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::You will be civil on this wiki or you will leave. Sporeboy gave you permission to amend his image? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Gaurwaith==&lt;br /&gt;
Hello! I know I posted this before on the Template:Gaurwaith talk page, but seriously, why isn&#039;t [[Andvír]] there? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Fun fact: did you know there&#039;s only ever been [[Forum:Ilúvatar infobox|one other user in Tolkien Gateway&#039;s 10-year history to use the phrase &amp;quot;but seriously&amp;quot;]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::You did not answer my question. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Because I haven&#039;t finished the template yet (which is why it hasn&#039;t been added to any article). Perhaps you should wait and see first before discussing the matter on two talk pages. Did you know about my fun fact? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::&amp;quot;But seriously&amp;quot;? I reckon you must have spent years searching through every word and sentence on this page to come to that conclusion. And besides, what does that have to do with me? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Nope - took me about 10 seconds. OK. I&#039;ll call it. In my view you are a sockpuppet for Woolly Mammoth. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:42, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::First of all: how did you even come to the conclusion that I&#039;m an alter ego of some other user? I have just signed up and I am already being accused of being a &amp;quot;sockpuppet&amp;quot; for some guy that I have never heard of until now. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::There are quite a number of signs; we&#039;ll be checking IPs later today. If you aren&#039;t WM I do sincerely apologise as this probably makes me look like a bit of a nutter; but if you are WM I have to admit that I am actually a bit impressed by your commitment to Tolkien Gateway that you have created a sockpuppet in order to carry on doing good work. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Music==&lt;br /&gt;
Do we have a license to use [[Tolkien Ensemble]]&#039;s songs on this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:07, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:No. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:16, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Laconic answer...Can we get one? There are images on this site with licenses ranging from artists of Deviantart, to artists of likes of [[John Howe]], [[Alan Lee]] and [[Ted Nasmith]]. Why not include music in this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I doubt it. It&#039;s not something I personally see as desirable, either. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:49, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Have you heard the &amp;quot;Burial Song of Théoden&amp;quot; by Tolkien Ensemble? I think the visitors of this site should be entitled to hear this masterpiece (in my opinion). In any case...I will contact the Tolkien Ensemble myself. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::And yes...one more thing...What about this WM thing you were talking about? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::You would have to discuss this with other users (and admins) of this site first before initiating contact with them and seeking to put their songs this website. I personally don&#039;t think it would be appropriate for TG to host songs that people should be paying for. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:03, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::You did not answer my question! What about this WM thing I am accused!? I find myself insulted for, coinsidentally , wanting to expand this wiki as much as it is possible. And for your information, I am an editor on Wikipedia. And I am not talking about paying anything. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::No, but by having their songs on our website we are preventing them from earning money from them. I&#039;m not convinced that that is right. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Pagination==&lt;br /&gt;
I have hi-res scans of &#039;&#039;[[The History of Middle-earth]]&#039;&#039; on my computer. And I have seen before that pagination can be a sort of a mess, when multiple versions of the same book collide together. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The pagination for &#039;&#039;The History of Middle-earth&#039;&#039; series is pretty much consistent (which is why we reference pages for those when we don&#039;t for &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;). How long did it take you to scan them? What is the edition of your hardcopy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sale of this book without a front cover may be unauthorized. If this book is coverless, it may have been reported to the publisher as “unsold or destroyed” and neither the author nor the publisher may have received payment for it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A Del Rey® Book Published by The Ballantine Publishing Group&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright © 1983 by Frank Richard Williamson and Christopher Reuel Tolkien as Executors of the Estate of J. R. R. Tolkien&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved under International and Pan-American Copyright Conventions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Published in the United States by The Ballantine Publishing Group, a division of Random House, Inc., New York.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Del Rey and colophon are registered trademarks of Random House, Inc.www.delreydigital.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 83-12782&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ISBN 0-345-37521-1&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First published in the United States by Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Reprinted by special arrangement with Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Manufactured in the United States of America&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First Ballantine Books Edition: June 1992&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OPM 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:55, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Picture==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, I noticed while skipping through pages that the picture for the page The Road Goes Ever On and On: The Maps of Tolkien&#039;s Middle Earth has nothing to do with the theme of the page as far as I can see. Yes, it&#039;s a picture of a book of maps, but it&#039;s not a picture of the book of maps we are talking about. I am still an utter newbie with this programing, and have no idea how to change the picture to a more accurate one. [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Done. [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Road_Goes_Ever_On_and_On:_The_Map_of_Tolkien%27s_Middle-earth&amp;amp;curid=35192&amp;amp;diff=272100&amp;amp;oldid=214177 Look at the change I&#039;ve made] to see how the coding works. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:52, 5 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Good that. Will be changing quite a few pics myself, correct me if you don&#039;t think that they are right. The titles match!!! :)  [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
==Elendilmir==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How should we address the confusion surrounding the number and fates of the different incarnations of the Elendilmir?  See my note on the talk page of the relevant entry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 06:13, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:By discussing it on that article&#039;s talk page, and &#039;&#039;&#039;not&#039;&#039;&#039; on my talk page. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:21, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Sorry if I bothered you.  This was literally the first interaction I&#039;ve had with anyone on this site.  I wasn&#039;t aware that I was doing something wrong.  I asked you because the post on my talk page told me to bring any questions to you.  I won&#039;t make the same mistake again.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Senya&amp;diff=272311</id>
		<title>Senya</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Senya&amp;diff=272311"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T04:21:30Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senya&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senwa&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; in [[Quenya]] means &amp;quot;usual&amp;quot;.{{fact}}. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senya&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; is typically used as an affectionate term of address, equivalent to &amp;quot;my child&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://universityofarda.tumblr.com/post/60456499601/zeroatthebone-kaywinnet-hey-tolkien&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
==Etymology==&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps from verb &#039;&#039;[[sen]]&#039;&#039; &amp;quot;let loose, free, let go&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{VT|49}}.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{title|lowercase}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Quenya adjectives]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Senya&amp;diff=272310</id>
		<title>Senya</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Senya&amp;diff=272310"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T04:20:26Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senya&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senwa&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; in [[Quenya]] means &amp;quot;usual&amp;quot;.{{fact}}. It is also typically used as an affectionate term of address, equivalent to &amp;quot;my child&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://universityofarda.tumblr.com/post/60456499601/zeroatthebone-kaywinnet-hey-tolkien&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
==Etymology==&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps from verb &#039;&#039;[[sen]]&#039;&#039; &amp;quot;let loose, free, let go&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{VT|49}}.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{title|lowercase}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Quenya adjectives]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Senya&amp;diff=272309</id>
		<title>Senya</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Senya&amp;diff=272309"/>
		<updated>2015-07-10T04:18:45Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senya&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;senwa&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; in [[Quenya]] means &amp;quot;usual&amp;quot;.{{fact}}. It is also typically used as an affectionate term of address, equivalent to &amp;quot;my child&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
==Etymology==&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps from verb &#039;&#039;[[sen]]&#039;&#039; &amp;quot;let loose, free, let go&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{VT|49}}.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{title|lowercase}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Quenya adjectives]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272299</id>
		<title>User talk:Mith/2015</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272299"/>
		<updated>2015-07-09T08:47:31Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table style=&amp;quot;border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td rowspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;div id=&amp;quot;talk&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]&#039;s talk page.&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ul&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} post your new topic at the &#039;&#039;bottom&#039;&#039;] of this page, including a &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;==Descriptive heading==&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;You should sign and date your posts by inserting &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;letter-spacing:.2em;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; at the end of them.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please indent your posts with &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to an existing topic (or &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;::&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to a reply, etc.).&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;I will generally respond &#039;&#039;here&#039;&#039; to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;If I have left a message on &#039;&#039;your&#039;&#039; talk page, please continue the discussion there; &#039;&#039;&#039;DO NOT&#039;&#039;&#039; reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/ul&amp;gt;[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;amp;rArr; Start a new talk topic.&#039;&#039;&#039;]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Hans-Ulrich Möhring ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey Mith! I saw, that you deleted the article about the German translator Hans-Ulrich Möhring (&#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039;) with the comment &#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Just not notable enough&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;. Möhring was now responsible for the German translation of another posthum released work. &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; will be published under the title &#039;&#039;König Arthurs Untergang&#039;&#039; on 21 March, 2015 in Germany, translated by Hans-Ulrich Möhring. I think, that two translations of complex lyrics by J.R.R. Tolkien are enough to legitimate the existence of an article about him. What do you think? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:For me, no (although others might take a different view). We have a painful habit on TG of creating articles about individuals which are essentially one line: &amp;quot;X is a Y who worked on Z.&amp;quot; Is there anything (verifiable) to say about Möhring as translator of &#039;&#039;Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; beyond the fact that he translated them? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:14, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I see what you mean. To write something about his translation work on &#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; (in my opinion) would make no sense in an English Wiki, so the only mentionable point would be the fact, that Möhring corresponded with Tom Shippey while translating. If you think, that the article is of no importance for Tolkien Gateway, then it&#039;s ok. I just wanted to know the reasons. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::If he&#039;d corresponded with Tolkien himself then that would put him in a different category, in my view. My fear is having an article that essentially doesn&#039;t really tell the reader anything. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Page merging question ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey Mith, I went ahead and tackled merging [[Sea-elves]] into [[Teleri]].  I wasn&#039;t sure if my method of merging the pages was right: I copied the wiki-edit text to the other page and edited it some, then marked the original page for deletion.  I changed the links that lead to Sea-elves to [[Falmari]] or Teleri where needed.  I wasn&#039;t sure if this was good or if I needed to do anything else/something different. [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 19:39, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi xsys, and welcome to Tolkien Gateway! To merge a page we transfer the appropriate content and turn the page into a redirect (i.e. we don&#039;t mark it for deletion) - the reason for this is so people who search for &amp;quot;Sea-elves&amp;quot; will be taken to the Teleri page, for example. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::That makes sense.  Thanks! [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 20:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Images==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Good evening. This is [[User talk:2.84.120.176|User2.84.120.176]]. Could you upload upload more images on the page  [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]];I dont have this ability, but you do have this ability. Upload and put these NEW images on the Category:Images from The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies.OK; {{unsignedanon|2.84.120.176}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for getting in touch. Remembering that the DVD of &#039;&#039;The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies&#039;&#039; isn&#039;t out yet (and therefore screencaps aren&#039;t so easy to obtain), do you have any particular images in mind? Or, perhaps you could [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&amp;amp;type=signup sign up to Tolkien Gateway] and upload them yourself? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Reminding==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi Mith, I wonder if you could please check your email? I&#039;ve sent you a request a week ago :) [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 10:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I have received the email but I passed it onto [[User:Hyarion]] to respond. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks a lot. Anyway, I hope that he could reply to us soon, since, as it seems, he does not appear frequently. So here I put this forward again, mean not in the slightest to bother you. We are eager to make contact with Alan Lee, so I would be appreciated if you could give me the email address of him. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 16:44, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I generally don&#039;t give out other people&#039;s email addresses without their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I must apologize for my rudeness and discourtesy. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 23:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Quick Question ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How do you create separate pages on a page that you are creating? {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I don&#039;t understand what you mean. Create a separate page on a page you are creating? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Sort of, you know on a user page how you can create the different subtitles for your pages. I am wondering how to do that. {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The same as you would create any other page: simply type the pagename as a URL and then press &amp;quot;create an article with that title&amp;quot;. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Oh, thanks {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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==Mithrellas==&lt;br /&gt;
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May I ask why have you deleted the infobox? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 09:49, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You&#039;re going to need to be more specific: what infobox have I deleted? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::My mistake. I have just realized you reverted the edits to the period where there was no infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:43, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::If you&#039;re going to insist on making three, four, five, six - and one occasion, nine! - consecutive edits, things like this will happen. Apologies for reverting the infobox as well but please can you try to learn to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; button and plan you edits. Nine small edits to an article are not necessary. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:59, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I take it back. Your record is actually 10 edits in a row ([[Tréowine]]). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I know how to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; very well...But like I said, it often happens that I forget to include something in an article and have to edit it again. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You forget nine times in a row? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Maybe &amp;quot;forget&amp;quot; is a wrong word (although not completely). &amp;quot;Change my mind&amp;quot; would be a more appropriate word. Besides, you are editing for years and I, myself, only for a couple of days. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::Indeed. I think we&#039;re all aware of that! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Copyright for images==&lt;br /&gt;
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Please, how can I get the copyright for an image that I want to upload, but that isn&#039;t already in the &amp;quot;Category:Evidence of permission granted by copyright holders&amp;quot; section? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You will need to contact the copyright-holder and ask for their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::By e-mail solely? Because I have already contacted a number of artists and they all gave permission. Technicality is my main issue in this matter. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::There needs to be some evidence in case it&#039;s ever challenged. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Here&#039;s one: http://www.deviantart.com/messages/notes/#1_0/1281622023 [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 18:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Obituary title==&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039; is the official title of the obituary published in [[Bulletin of the Modern Humanities Research Association 20]] . All references  I consulted used this title.So I think the article it should remain with that name. {{unsigned|Sigurd}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:Absolutely not. Aside from the fact I don&#039;t think we need an article for an obituary written for someone on whom we have [[Henry Bradley|a very short article]] (we&#039;d end up with a longer article on the obituary than on the man himself!), naming the article &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; would be ridiculous verbose and unwieldy. If an article must be made it should be something like &amp;quot;Obituary for Henry Bradley&amp;quot;, but I would be against its creation. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:31, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I dont think ridiculous since Tolkien himself give the name to the article. Someone put the same name in reference of that Bulletin 1923 here:[[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien]].And other books I read use the same name.In addition, the obituary contains a poem written by Tolkien in Old English. And also this obituary has his own topic on [[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]([[User:Sigurd|Sigurd]] 21:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC))&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Did Tolkien give the title, or was that the editor? In any case, it is a title of a printed obituary, not an online webpage. Any article title we choose would also be the URL. We aren&#039;t the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia and our usage should not - and does not - reflect what they have done. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ninni-V==&lt;br /&gt;
Can you please rename the pictures of Ninni-V to Antonio Vinci. By the request of the artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Can you please email me where the artists have granted their permission for their work to be hosted on Tolkien Gateway? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:06, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I have asked the permission via note on DeviantArt. What would you like me to do? You cannot access the notes considering they are private and cannot be read unless one is logged in. So....??? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::{{blockquote|Also, as a bit of housekeeping, can you forward to me either a copy of the emails from the artists &#039;&#039;&#039;or a screenprint&#039;&#039;&#039; so we have a bit of a proof - my email is {{nospam|mith|tolkiengateway.net}}. Cheers --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;Yes, I will. But just one reminder: all the images by &#039;&#039;&#039;VunastiMamut&#039;&#039;&#039; are mine. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)|[[User talk:Woolly Mammoth]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::--{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I have send you an email with a screen print for the said artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Thanks. What about the others? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I will. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::I have. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 16:57, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Vandalism==&lt;br /&gt;
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Mith, we have a problem. There is this random guy going by the name of Webbane who is destroying stuff right now! [[User:Bane|Bane]] &lt;br /&gt;
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:He has deleted off my page, yours, Woolly&#039;s, the Forum and a load of paragraphs from articles. Can we remove his account or something??? {{unsigned|Arya}}&lt;br /&gt;
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::It&#039;s all been dealt with now. Isn&#039;t it interesting how a User:Bane and a User:Webbane pop up on the same night! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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You aren&#039;t blaming Bane though [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Why are you deleting MY images??==&lt;br /&gt;
Those images that you have deleted are my artwork! Is this vandalism or what???? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I thought you said that they were all by other people - apologies. Although your picture of Uldor is [http://qnwn.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=116&amp;amp;Itemid=110&amp;amp;page=2 remarkably similar to one by James Adams] (also known as Sporeboy)? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Maybe because I borrowed the pictures from some of (with permission, which I have sent you by email) those guys, aye? Some of the pictures are by other people, AND some of them are mine (namely Elmo, Bór, Uldor, Formenos!). You are behaving like an asshole and you have no right (beside being an administrator), absolutely no right to delete those images!&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Do not speak to me like that again. As an administrator I have every right to delete any image on this website whether it be yours or anyone else&#039;s. &lt;br /&gt;
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:::So, your image of Uldor. Did you &amp;quot;borrow&amp;quot; the one from Sporeboy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I will speak as I want to! And, considering your image of Uldor I granted the permission to use my artwork. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:41, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You will be civil on this wiki or you will leave. Sporeboy gave you permission to amend his image? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Gaurwaith==&lt;br /&gt;
Hello! I know I posted this before on the Template:Gaurwaith talk page, but seriously, why isn&#039;t [[Andvír]] there? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Fun fact: did you know there&#039;s only ever been [[Forum:Ilúvatar infobox|one other user in Tolkien Gateway&#039;s 10-year history to use the phrase &amp;quot;but seriously&amp;quot;]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You did not answer my question. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Because I haven&#039;t finished the template yet (which is why it hasn&#039;t been added to any article). Perhaps you should wait and see first before discussing the matter on two talk pages. Did you know about my fun fact? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::&amp;quot;But seriously&amp;quot;? I reckon you must have spent years searching through every word and sentence on this page to come to that conclusion. And besides, what does that have to do with me? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Nope - took me about 10 seconds. OK. I&#039;ll call it. In my view you are a sockpuppet for Woolly Mammoth. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:42, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::First of all: how did you even come to the conclusion that I&#039;m an alter ego of some other user? I have just signed up and I am already being accused of being a &amp;quot;sockpuppet&amp;quot; for some guy that I have never heard of until now. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::There are quite a number of signs; we&#039;ll be checking IPs later today. If you aren&#039;t WM I do sincerely apologise as this probably makes me look like a bit of a nutter; but if you are WM I have to admit that I am actually a bit impressed by your commitment to Tolkien Gateway that you have created a sockpuppet in order to carry on doing good work. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Music==&lt;br /&gt;
Do we have a license to use [[Tolkien Ensemble]]&#039;s songs on this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:07, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:No. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:16, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Laconic answer...Can we get one? There are images on this site with licenses ranging from artists of Deviantart, to artists of likes of [[John Howe]], [[Alan Lee]] and [[Ted Nasmith]]. Why not include music in this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I doubt it. It&#039;s not something I personally see as desirable, either. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:49, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Have you heard the &amp;quot;Burial Song of Théoden&amp;quot; by Tolkien Ensemble? I think the visitors of this site should be entitled to hear this masterpiece (in my opinion). In any case...I will contact the Tolkien Ensemble myself. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::And yes...one more thing...What about this WM thing you were talking about? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You would have to discuss this with other users (and admins) of this site first before initiating contact with them and seeking to put their songs this website. I personally don&#039;t think it would be appropriate for TG to host songs that people should be paying for. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:03, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::You did not answer my question! What about this WM thing I am accused!? I find myself insulted for, coinsidentally , wanting to expand this wiki as much as it is possible. And for your information, I am an editor on Wikipedia. And I am not talking about paying anything. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::No, but by having their songs on our website we are preventing them from earning money from them. I&#039;m not convinced that that is right. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Pagination==&lt;br /&gt;
I have hi-res scans of &#039;&#039;[[The History of Middle-earth]]&#039;&#039; on my computer. And I have seen before that pagination can be a sort of a mess, when multiple versions of the same book collide together. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The pagination for &#039;&#039;The History of Middle-earth&#039;&#039; series is pretty much consistent (which is why we reference pages for those when we don&#039;t for &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;). How long did it take you to scan them? What is the edition of your hardcopy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sale of this book without a front cover may be unauthorized. If this book is coverless, it may have been reported to the publisher as “unsold or destroyed” and neither the author nor the publisher may have received payment for it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A Del Rey® Book Published by The Ballantine Publishing Group&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright © 1983 by Frank Richard Williamson and Christopher Reuel Tolkien as Executors of the Estate of J. R. R. Tolkien&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved under International and Pan-American Copyright Conventions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Published in the United States by The Ballantine Publishing Group, a division of Random House, Inc., New York.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Del Rey and colophon are registered trademarks of Random House, Inc.www.delreydigital.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 83-12782&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ISBN 0-345-37521-1&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First published in the United States by Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Reprinted by special arrangement with Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Manufactured in the United States of America&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First Ballantine Books Edition: June 1992&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OPM 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:55, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Picture==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, I noticed while skipping through pages that the picture for the page The Road Goes Ever On and On: The Maps of Tolkien&#039;s Middle Earth has nothing to do with the theme of the page as far as I can see. Yes, it&#039;s a picture of a book of maps, but it&#039;s not a picture of the book of maps we are talking about. I am still an utter newbie with this programing, and have no idea how to change the picture to a more accurate one. [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Done. [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Road_Goes_Ever_On_and_On:_The_Map_of_Tolkien%27s_Middle-earth&amp;amp;curid=35192&amp;amp;diff=272100&amp;amp;oldid=214177 Look at the change I&#039;ve made] to see how the coding works. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:52, 5 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Good that. Will be changing quite a few pics myself, correct me if you don&#039;t think that they are right. The titles match!!! :)  [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:By discussing it on that article&#039;s talk page, and &#039;&#039;&#039;not&#039;&#039;&#039; on my talk page. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:21, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272293</id>
		<title>User talk:Mith/2015</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2015&amp;diff=272293"/>
		<updated>2015-07-09T06:13:09Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table style=&amp;quot;border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td rowspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;div id=&amp;quot;talk&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]&#039;s talk page.&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ul&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} post your new topic at the &#039;&#039;bottom&#039;&#039;] of this page, including a &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;==Descriptive heading==&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;You should sign and date your posts by inserting &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;letter-spacing:.2em;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;~~&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; at the end of them.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Please indent your posts with &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to an existing topic (or &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;::&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; if replying to a reply, etc.).&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;I will generally respond &#039;&#039;here&#039;&#039; to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;If I have left a message on &#039;&#039;your&#039;&#039; talk page, please continue the discussion there; &#039;&#039;&#039;DO NOT&#039;&#039;&#039; reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.&amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/ul&amp;gt;[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;amp;section=new}} &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;amp;rArr; Start a new talk topic.&#039;&#039;&#039;]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Hans-Ulrich Möhring ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey Mith! I saw, that you deleted the article about the German translator Hans-Ulrich Möhring (&#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039;) with the comment &#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Just not notable enough&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;. Möhring was now responsible for the German translation of another posthum released work. &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; will be published under the title &#039;&#039;König Arthurs Untergang&#039;&#039; on 21 March, 2015 in Germany, translated by Hans-Ulrich Möhring. I think, that two translations of complex lyrics by J.R.R. Tolkien are enough to legitimate the existence of an article about him. What do you think? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:For me, no (although others might take a different view). We have a painful habit on TG of creating articles about individuals which are essentially one line: &amp;quot;X is a Y who worked on Z.&amp;quot; Is there anything (verifiable) to say about Möhring as translator of &#039;&#039;Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;The Fall of Arthur&#039;&#039; beyond the fact that he translated them? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:14, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I see what you mean. To write something about his translation work on &#039;&#039;The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún&#039;&#039; (in my opinion) would make no sense in an English Wiki, so the only mentionable point would be the fact, that Möhring corresponded with Tom Shippey while translating. If you think, that the article is of no importance for Tolkien Gateway, then it&#039;s ok. I just wanted to know the reasons. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::If he&#039;d corresponded with Tolkien himself then that would put him in a different category, in my view. My fear is having an article that essentially doesn&#039;t really tell the reader anything. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 7 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Page merging question ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey Mith, I went ahead and tackled merging [[Sea-elves]] into [[Teleri]].  I wasn&#039;t sure if my method of merging the pages was right: I copied the wiki-edit text to the other page and edited it some, then marked the original page for deletion.  I changed the links that lead to Sea-elves to [[Falmari]] or Teleri where needed.  I wasn&#039;t sure if this was good or if I needed to do anything else/something different. [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 19:39, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi xsys, and welcome to Tolkien Gateway! To merge a page we transfer the appropriate content and turn the page into a redirect (i.e. we don&#039;t mark it for deletion) - the reason for this is so people who search for &amp;quot;Sea-elves&amp;quot; will be taken to the Teleri page, for example. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::That makes sense.  Thanks! [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 20:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Images==&lt;br /&gt;
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Good evening. This is [[User talk:2.84.120.176|User2.84.120.176]]. Could you upload upload more images on the page  [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]];I dont have this ability, but you do have this ability. Upload and put these NEW images on the Category:Images from The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies.OK; {{unsignedanon|2.84.120.176}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for getting in touch. Remembering that the DVD of &#039;&#039;The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies&#039;&#039; isn&#039;t out yet (and therefore screencaps aren&#039;t so easy to obtain), do you have any particular images in mind? Or, perhaps you could [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&amp;amp;type=signup sign up to Tolkien Gateway] and upload them yourself? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Reminding==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi Mith, I wonder if you could please check your email? I&#039;ve sent you a request a week ago :) [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 10:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I have received the email but I passed it onto [[User:Hyarion]] to respond. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Thanks a lot. Anyway, I hope that he could reply to us soon, since, as it seems, he does not appear frequently. So here I put this forward again, mean not in the slightest to bother you. We are eager to make contact with Alan Lee, so I would be appreciated if you could give me the email address of him. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 16:44, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I generally don&#039;t give out other people&#039;s email addresses without their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I must apologize for my rudeness and discourtesy. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 23:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Quick Question ==&lt;br /&gt;
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How do you create separate pages on a page that you are creating? {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:I don&#039;t understand what you mean. Create a separate page on a page you are creating? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Sort of, you know on a user page how you can create the different subtitles for your pages. I am wondering how to do that. {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The same as you would create any other page: simply type the pagename as a URL and then press &amp;quot;create an article with that title&amp;quot;. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Oh, thanks {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}&lt;br /&gt;
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==Mithrellas==&lt;br /&gt;
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May I ask why have you deleted the infobox? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 09:49, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You&#039;re going to need to be more specific: what infobox have I deleted? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::My mistake. I have just realized you reverted the edits to the period where there was no infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:43, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::If you&#039;re going to insist on making three, four, five, six - and one occasion, nine! - consecutive edits, things like this will happen. Apologies for reverting the infobox as well but please can you try to learn to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; button and plan you edits. Nine small edits to an article are not necessary. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:59, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I take it back. Your record is actually 10 edits in a row ([[Tréowine]]). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I know how to use the &amp;quot;Show preview&amp;quot; very well...But like I said, it often happens that I forget to include something in an article and have to edit it again. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You forget nine times in a row? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Maybe &amp;quot;forget&amp;quot; is a wrong word (although not completely). &amp;quot;Change my mind&amp;quot; would be a more appropriate word. Besides, you are editing for years and I, myself, only for a couple of days. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::Indeed. I think we&#039;re all aware of that! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Copyright for images==&lt;br /&gt;
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Please, how can I get the copyright for an image that I want to upload, but that isn&#039;t already in the &amp;quot;Category:Evidence of permission granted by copyright holders&amp;quot; section? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You will need to contact the copyright-holder and ask for their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::By e-mail solely? Because I have already contacted a number of artists and they all gave permission. Technicality is my main issue in this matter. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::There needs to be some evidence in case it&#039;s ever challenged. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Here&#039;s one: http://www.deviantart.com/messages/notes/#1_0/1281622023 [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 18:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Obituary title==&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039; is the official title of the obituary published in [[Bulletin of the Modern Humanities Research Association 20]] . All references  I consulted used this title.So I think the article it should remain with that name. {{unsigned|Sigurd}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:Absolutely not. Aside from the fact I don&#039;t think we need an article for an obituary written for someone on whom we have [[Henry Bradley|a very short article]] (we&#039;d end up with a longer article on the obituary than on the man himself!), naming the article &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; would be ridiculous verbose and unwieldy. If an article must be made it should be something like &amp;quot;Obituary for Henry Bradley&amp;quot;, but I would be against its creation. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:31, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I dont think ridiculous since Tolkien himself give the name to the article. Someone put the same name in reference of that Bulletin 1923 here:[[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien]].And other books I read use the same name.In addition, the obituary contains a poem written by Tolkien in Old English. And also this obituary has his own topic on [[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]([[User:Sigurd|Sigurd]] 21:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC))&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Did Tolkien give the title, or was that the editor? In any case, it is a title of a printed obituary, not an online webpage. Any article title we choose would also be the URL. We aren&#039;t the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia and our usage should not - and does not - reflect what they have done. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ninni-V==&lt;br /&gt;
Can you please rename the pictures of Ninni-V to Antonio Vinci. By the request of the artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Can you please email me where the artists have granted their permission for their work to be hosted on Tolkien Gateway? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:06, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I have asked the permission via note on DeviantArt. What would you like me to do? You cannot access the notes considering they are private and cannot be read unless one is logged in. So....??? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::{{blockquote|Also, as a bit of housekeeping, can you forward to me either a copy of the emails from the artists &#039;&#039;&#039;or a screenprint&#039;&#039;&#039; so we have a bit of a proof - my email is {{nospam|mith|tolkiengateway.net}}. Cheers --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;Yes, I will. But just one reminder: all the images by &#039;&#039;&#039;VunastiMamut&#039;&#039;&#039; are mine. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)|[[User talk:Woolly Mammoth]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::--{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I have send you an email with a screen print for the said artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Thanks. What about the others? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I will. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::I have. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 16:57, 2 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Vandalism==&lt;br /&gt;
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Mith, we have a problem. There is this random guy going by the name of Webbane who is destroying stuff right now! [[User:Bane|Bane]] &lt;br /&gt;
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:He has deleted off my page, yours, Woolly&#039;s, the Forum and a load of paragraphs from articles. Can we remove his account or something??? {{unsigned|Arya}}&lt;br /&gt;
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::It&#039;s all been dealt with now. Isn&#039;t it interesting how a User:Bane and a User:Webbane pop up on the same night! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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You aren&#039;t blaming Bane though [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Why are you deleting MY images??==&lt;br /&gt;
Those images that you have deleted are my artwork! Is this vandalism or what???? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I thought you said that they were all by other people - apologies. Although your picture of Uldor is [http://qnwn.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=116&amp;amp;Itemid=110&amp;amp;page=2 remarkably similar to one by James Adams] (also known as Sporeboy)? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Maybe because I borrowed the pictures from some of (with permission, which I have sent you by email) those guys, aye? Some of the pictures are by other people, AND some of them are mine (namely Elmo, Bór, Uldor, Formenos!). You are behaving like an asshole and you have no right (beside being an administrator), absolutely no right to delete those images!&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Do not speak to me like that again. As an administrator I have every right to delete any image on this website whether it be yours or anyone else&#039;s. &lt;br /&gt;
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:::So, your image of Uldor. Did you &amp;quot;borrow&amp;quot; the one from Sporeboy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I will speak as I want to! And, considering your image of Uldor I granted the permission to use my artwork. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:41, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You will be civil on this wiki or you will leave. Sporeboy gave you permission to amend his image? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Gaurwaith==&lt;br /&gt;
Hello! I know I posted this before on the Template:Gaurwaith talk page, but seriously, why isn&#039;t [[Andvír]] there? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Fun fact: did you know there&#039;s only ever been [[Forum:Ilúvatar infobox|one other user in Tolkien Gateway&#039;s 10-year history to use the phrase &amp;quot;but seriously&amp;quot;]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You did not answer my question. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Because I haven&#039;t finished the template yet (which is why it hasn&#039;t been added to any article). Perhaps you should wait and see first before discussing the matter on two talk pages. Did you know about my fun fact? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::&amp;quot;But seriously&amp;quot;? I reckon you must have spent years searching through every word and sentence on this page to come to that conclusion. And besides, what does that have to do with me? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Nope - took me about 10 seconds. OK. I&#039;ll call it. In my view you are a sockpuppet for Woolly Mammoth. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:42, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::First of all: how did you even come to the conclusion that I&#039;m an alter ego of some other user? I have just signed up and I am already being accused of being a &amp;quot;sockpuppet&amp;quot; for some guy that I have never heard of until now. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::There are quite a number of signs; we&#039;ll be checking IPs later today. If you aren&#039;t WM I do sincerely apologise as this probably makes me look like a bit of a nutter; but if you are WM I have to admit that I am actually a bit impressed by your commitment to Tolkien Gateway that you have created a sockpuppet in order to carry on doing good work. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Music==&lt;br /&gt;
Do we have a license to use [[Tolkien Ensemble]]&#039;s songs on this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 08:07, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:No. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:16, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Laconic answer...Can we get one? There are images on this site with licenses ranging from artists of Deviantart, to artists of likes of [[John Howe]], [[Alan Lee]] and [[Ted Nasmith]]. Why not include music in this site? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I doubt it. It&#039;s not something I personally see as desirable, either. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:49, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Have you heard the &amp;quot;Burial Song of Théoden&amp;quot; by Tolkien Ensemble? I think the visitors of this site should be entitled to hear this masterpiece (in my opinion). In any case...I will contact the Tolkien Ensemble myself. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::And yes...one more thing...What about this WM thing you were talking about? [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 09:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You would have to discuss this with other users (and admins) of this site first before initiating contact with them and seeking to put their songs this website. I personally don&#039;t think it would be appropriate for TG to host songs that people should be paying for. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:03, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::You did not answer my question! What about this WM thing I am accused!? I find myself insulted for, coinsidentally , wanting to expand this wiki as much as it is possible. And for your information, I am an editor on Wikipedia. And I am not talking about paying anything. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 10:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::No, but by having their songs on our website we are preventing them from earning money from them. I&#039;m not convinced that that is right. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Pagination==&lt;br /&gt;
I have hi-res scans of &#039;&#039;[[The History of Middle-earth]]&#039;&#039; on my computer. And I have seen before that pagination can be a sort of a mess, when multiple versions of the same book collide together. [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The pagination for &#039;&#039;The History of Middle-earth&#039;&#039; series is pretty much consistent (which is why we reference pages for those when we don&#039;t for &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;). How long did it take you to scan them? What is the edition of your hardcopy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sale of this book without a front cover may be unauthorized. If this book is coverless, it may have been reported to the publisher as “unsold or destroyed” and neither the author nor the publisher may have received payment for it.&lt;br /&gt;
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A Del Rey® Book Published by The Ballantine Publishing Group&lt;br /&gt;
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Copyright © 1983 by Frank Richard Williamson and Christopher Reuel Tolkien as Executors of the Estate of J. R. R. Tolkien&lt;br /&gt;
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All rights reserved under International and Pan-American Copyright Conventions.&lt;br /&gt;
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Published in the United States by The Ballantine Publishing Group, a division of Random House, Inc., New York.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Del Rey and colophon are registered trademarks of Random House, Inc.www.delreydigital.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 83-12782&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ISBN 0-345-37521-1&lt;br /&gt;
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First published in the United States by Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
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Reprinted by special arrangement with Houghton Mifflin Company.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Manufactured in the United States of America&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First Ballantine Books Edition: June 1992&lt;br /&gt;
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OPM 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 [[User:Maedhros95|Maedhros95]] 13:55, 23 June 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Picture==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, I noticed while skipping through pages that the picture for the page The Road Goes Ever On and On: The Maps of Tolkien&#039;s Middle Earth has nothing to do with the theme of the page as far as I can see. Yes, it&#039;s a picture of a book of maps, but it&#039;s not a picture of the book of maps we are talking about. I am still an utter newbie with this programing, and have no idea how to change the picture to a more accurate one. [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Done. [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Road_Goes_Ever_On_and_On:_The_Map_of_Tolkien%27s_Middle-earth&amp;amp;curid=35192&amp;amp;diff=272100&amp;amp;oldid=214177 Look at the change I&#039;ve made] to see how the coding works. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:52, 5 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Good that. Will be changing quite a few pics myself, correct me if you don&#039;t think that they are right. The titles match!!! :)  [[User:Arya|Arya]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Elendilmir==&lt;br /&gt;
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How should we address the confusion surrounding the number and fates of the different incarnations of the Elendilmir?  See my note on the talk page of the relevant entry.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 06:13, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Star_of_Elendil&amp;diff=272292</id>
		<title>Talk:Star of Elendil</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Star_of_Elendil&amp;diff=272292"/>
		<updated>2015-07-09T06:10:38Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: Created page with &amp;quot;Should this entry make reference to the confusion surrounding the actual number of objects know as &amp;quot;Elendilmir&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Star of Elendilmir&amp;quot;?  As Christopher Tolkien points out in the...&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Should this entry make reference to the confusion surrounding the actual number of objects know as &amp;quot;Elendilmir&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Star of Elendilmir&amp;quot;?  As Christopher Tolkien points out in the footnotes to The Disaster of the Gladden Fields, the first Elendilmir was the one possessed by Silmarien.  A second Elendilmir was created by Tar-Aldarion for his wife Erendis, was passed down through the line of heirs, and was eventually lost along with Isildur&#039;s body at the Gladden Fields. A third was made by the Elves of Imladris for Isildur&#039;s son Valandil.  This third incarnation of the Elendilmir was the one worn by Aragorn Elessar until he and Gimli discovered the second one in Orthanc.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As if this weren&#039;t complicated enough, Christopher Tolkien goes on to argue that the text in Lord of the Rings is wrong, and the &amp;quot;Star of the Dunedain&amp;quot; presented to Samwis Gamgee by Aragorn Elessar was yet ANOTHER Elendilmir, which would make it the FOURTH incarnation of the jewel.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know that all of this is absurdly complicated and impossible to sort out, but I think this entry should at least mention it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 06:10, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Senya&amp;diff=272291</id>
		<title>Talk:Senya</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Senya&amp;diff=272291"/>
		<updated>2015-07-09T05:30:45Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;This definition doesn&#039;t seem to make sense.  When Isildur uses the term &amp;quot;senya&amp;quot; in The Disaster of the Gladden Fields, it is a reply to the term &amp;quot;Atarinya&amp;quot;, meaning &amp;quot;my father&amp;quot;, which suggests that &amp;quot;senya&amp;quot; in this context means &amp;quot;my son&amp;quot;.  [[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 05:27, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See also this page on the website University of Arda:  http://universityofarda.tumblr.com/post/60456499601/zeroatthebone-kaywinnet-hey-tolkien&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 05:30, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Senya&amp;diff=272290</id>
		<title>Talk:Senya</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Senya&amp;diff=272290"/>
		<updated>2015-07-09T05:27:19Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: Created page with &amp;quot;This definition doesn&amp;#039;t seem to make sense.  When Isildur uses the term &amp;quot;senya&amp;quot; in The Disaster of the Gladden Fields, it is a reply to the term &amp;quot;Atarinya&amp;quot;, meaning &amp;quot;my father&amp;quot;, ...&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;This definition doesn&#039;t seem to make sense.  When Isildur uses the term &amp;quot;senya&amp;quot; in The Disaster of the Gladden Fields, it is a reply to the term &amp;quot;Atarinya&amp;quot;, meaning &amp;quot;my father&amp;quot;, which suggests that &amp;quot;senya&amp;quot; in this context means &amp;quot;my son&amp;quot;.  [[User:WadCheber|WadCheber]] 05:27, 9 July 2015 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Elwing%27s_tower&amp;diff=271540</id>
		<title>Elwing&#039;s tower</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Elwing%27s_tower&amp;diff=271540"/>
		<updated>2015-06-26T07:27:06Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: corrected grammar&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Elwing&#039;s tower&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; was the white tower that was built for  [[Elwing]] &amp;quot;upon the borders of the outer world, in the northern regions of the [[Sundering Seas]]&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|24}} from {{LR|Quenta}} (§12, p. 327).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; She dwelt in the tower where all the sea-birds came to rest, and devised white and silver-grey wings for herself so that she could fly to meet [[Eärendil]] who returned from his journeys from &amp;quot;beyond the confines of the world&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|24}} from {{LR|Quenta}} (§11, p. 327).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;white tower&amp;quot; is not otherwise named in the [[Quenta Silmarillion]], only in the Index of &amp;lt;i&amp;gt;[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt; it is called &amp;quot;Elwing&#039;s tower&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{LR|Index}} (p. 426 s.v. &amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Elwing&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the previous versions of the story Eärendel built the tower for himself, in the [[Sketch of the Mythology]] on an isle in the northern seas,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{SM|2}} (§17, p. 38 cf. p. 70). &amp;amp;ndash; There is even a short mention of &amp;quot;the northern tower on the [[Isle of Seabirds]]&amp;quot; in a note for [[The Tale of Eärendel]] from [[The Book of Lost Tales]] period ({{LT2|V}}, xvii, p. 264).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and in the first version of the chapter 17 of [[The Quenta]] in the Northern Seas,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{SM|Q17}} (p. 150).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;. In both of these versions Eärendel is alone and builds the tower when trying to find Elwing who is lost in the seas. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But in the second version of The Quenta chapter 17 the wording is already quite similar to the Quenta Silmarillion: Eärendel builds the tower &amp;quot;upon the confines of the outer world in the Northern regions of the Sundering Seas&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{SM|Q17II}} (p. 154).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and for the first time Elwing is with him and aids him in his journeys.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{References}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Towers]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Elwingin torni]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Il%C3%BAvatar&amp;diff=271538</id>
		<title>Ilúvatar</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Il%C3%BAvatar&amp;diff=271538"/>
		<updated>2015-06-26T06:36:36Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* The God */ minor grammar correction&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{sources}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{quote|&#039;Ilúvatar was the first beginning, and beyond that no wisdom of the [[Valar]] or of [[Eldar]] or of [[Men]] can go.&#039;&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&#039;Who was Ilúvatar?&#039; asked [[Eriol]]. &#039;Was he of the [[Gods]]?&#039;&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&#039;Nay,&#039; said [[Rúmil (elf of Tirion)|Rúmil]], &#039;that he was not, for he made them.  Ilúvatar is the Lord for Always who dwells beyond the world; who made it and is not of it nor in it, but loves it.&#039; |&#039;&#039;[[The Book of Lost Tales Part One]]&#039;&#039;, &amp;quot;[[The Music of the Ainur]]&amp;quot;}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{other infobox&lt;br /&gt;
| image=[[File:Enano Akd - Eru Ilúvatar and the Timeless Halls.jpg|250px]]&lt;br /&gt;
| name=Eru Ilúvatar&lt;br /&gt;
| pronun=&lt;br /&gt;
| othernames=&#039;&#039;&#039;The One&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
| titles=&lt;br /&gt;
| position=&lt;br /&gt;
| location=&#039;&#039;&#039;The [[Timeless Halls]]&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
| affiliation=&lt;br /&gt;
| language=&lt;br /&gt;
| birth=&lt;br /&gt;
| birthlocation=&lt;br /&gt;
| rule=&lt;br /&gt;
| death=&lt;br /&gt;
| deathlocation=&lt;br /&gt;
| age=&lt;br /&gt;
| notablefor=Creating the [[Ainur]]&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Creating [[Eä]] (including [[Arda]])&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Creating the [[Eruhíni]] ([[Elves]] and [[Men]])&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Providing the [[Dwarves]] with [[fëa]] (and perhaps the [[Ents]] and the [[Eagles]] too)&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Destroying [[Númenor]] and causing the [[Changing of the World|change of the World]]&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Indirectly causing the destruction of [[The One Ring]] and dissipation of [[Sauron]]&lt;br /&gt;
| parentage=&lt;br /&gt;
| siblings=&lt;br /&gt;
| spouse=&lt;br /&gt;
| children=&lt;br /&gt;
| race=&lt;br /&gt;
| gender=&lt;br /&gt;
| height=&lt;br /&gt;
| hair=&lt;br /&gt;
| eyes=&lt;br /&gt;
| clothing=&lt;br /&gt;
| weapons=&lt;br /&gt;
| steed=&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Eru Ilúvatar&#039;&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;&#039;The One&#039;&#039;&#039; is the single omniscient and omnipotent creator. He has been existing eternally in the [[Timeless Halls]] and possesses the [[Flame Imperishable]] in his spirit which kindles existence from nothingness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Creator ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Melkor Weaves Opposing Music.jpg|thumb|left|Eru during the [[Great Music]].]]&lt;br /&gt;
Eru created the [[Ainur]] before anything else, whom He kindled with the Flame Imperishable. Each Ainu came from a part of His mind. To further their comprehension, he presented his thought in the form of music, and listened as the Ainur picked up his themes and elaborated on them, slowly learning to sing in harmony with each other. Eventually he showed them his greatest theme, and bade them sing it in harmony and develop it with newly granted powers. This was the [[Music of the Ainur]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Out of this great music, Eru showed them the [[Vision]] which showed vast halls of spaces and stories unfolded in the deeps of Time, and some Ainur were drawn to it. Eru said &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;[[ea (verb)|eä]]&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; and thus [[Eä]], the universe, was created.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|Ainu}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The God==&lt;br /&gt;
The Ainur entered Eä and shaped the world according to the Music. Eru delegated most direct action within [[Eä]] to the Ainur, including the shaping of the Earth ([[Arda]]) itself.&amp;lt;ref name=S1&amp;gt;{{S|1}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Ainur were not omniscient and there were some things beyond their comprehension; those were the creation of the [[Elves]] and [[Men]], who are directly the [[Children of Ilúvatar]] (&#039;&#039;[[Eruhíni]]&#039;&#039;) created without the delegation of the Ainur. Other things known by Eru alone are their destiny, and [[the End]] itself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The activities of Eru in regard to the life of Arda or Eä are not clear. [[Manwë]] was the [[Wikipedia:vicegerent|vicegerent]]&amp;lt;ref name=S1/&amp;gt; of Eru on Arda and it is known that he sought for his consent several times. Instances of Eru&#039;s direct intervention were:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Sanctified the creation of the [[Dwarves]] by [[Aulë]], giving them life and sapience, and were his &amp;quot;adopted&amp;quot; Children.&lt;br /&gt;
*At the behest of [[Yavanna]], He allowed the [[Ents]] into being.&amp;lt;ref name=aule&amp;gt;{{S|Aule}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*The creation of his Children, the [[Awakening of the Elves]] and [[Awakening of Men|Men]].&lt;br /&gt;
*The [[Changing of the World]] something that the Valar themselves could not have done.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|Akallabêth}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
*Several coincidences and signs of higher providence throughout history, such as [[Bilbo Baggins]] finding the [[One Ring]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{FR|I2}}, Gandalf: &amp;quot;Behind that there was something else at work, beyond any design of [Sauron]. [...] Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by [Sauron]. In which case you also were meant to have it. And that may be an encouraging thought&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*The resurrection of [[Gandalf]] after he was killed by [[Durin&#039;s Bane]], something that could only be done by an Authority higher than the Valar.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{L|156}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
According to &#039;&#039;[[Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth]]&#039;&#039; Eru would someday enter Eä to save his Children. It is said that after the end of days, Eru will unite the Ainur and the Children of Ilúvatar to create a music even greater than the one of creation.&lt;br /&gt;
===Worship of Eru===&lt;br /&gt;
{{quote|For that name we do not utter ever in jest or without full intent|[[Finrod Felagund]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{MR|P4c}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
Eru was considered transcendental, removed and distant from the affairs of Arda and was seldom worshiped and His name was too holy to be invoked. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Manwë made a [[high feast]] in praise of Eru to celebrate each gathering of fruits.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|Darkening}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The [[Númenoreans]] worshiped Eru in the [[Three Prayers]] held during the course of a [[coranar|year]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{UT|Numenor}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Fëanor]] swore [[Oath of Fëanor|his Oath]] in the name of Eru.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|Flight}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Elendil]] bound the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]] with an oath to Eru; the next known instance when a Man invoked Eru&#039;s name &amp;quot;who is above all thrones for ever&amp;quot;, was by [[Cirion]], millennia later.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{UT|Cirion}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Etymology==&lt;br /&gt;
===Eru===&lt;br /&gt;
{{Pronounce|Eru.mp3|Ardamir}}&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Eru&#039;&#039; is a [[Quenya]] name meaning &amp;quot;He that is Alone&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{PE|21}}, p. 83&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Ilúvatar===&lt;br /&gt;
{{Pronounce|Iluvatar.mp3|Ardamir}}&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Ilúvatar&#039;&#039;&#039; (pron. [[Noldorin|N]] {{IPA|[iˈluːvatar]}}, [[Vanyarin|V]] {{IPA|[iˈluːβatar]}}) is [[Quenya]] for &amp;quot;the Father of All&amp;quot;, more commonly referred to as &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Ilúvatar|Eru]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The name &#039;&#039;Ilúvatar&#039;&#039; is a compound of two words, &#039;&#039;[[ilu]]&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;[[ilúvë]]&#039;&#039; &amp;quot;universe&amp;quot; and &#039;&#039;[[atar]]&#039;&#039; &amp;quot;father.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
==Other versions of the Legendarium==&lt;br /&gt;
Ilúvatar appears since the earliest form of the Legendarium, in &#039;&#039;[[The Book of Lost Tales]]&#039;&#039;. It is to be noted that in earlier works of the legendarium the name &#039;&#039;Ilúvatar&#039;&#039; meant &amp;quot;Sky-father&amp;quot; since the element &#039;&#039;il-&#039;&#039; refers also to the sky (cf. [[Ilmen]]), but this etymology was dropped in favour of the newer meaning in later revisions. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the earlier versions Ilúvatar was the main name of God used. Another name was &#039;&#039;&#039;Ainatar&#039;&#039;&#039; &amp;quot;Father of Gods&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{LT1|Appendix}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; — the word Eru first appeared in &#039;&#039;[[The Annals of Aman]]&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|MR}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Inspiration==&lt;br /&gt;
Tolkien understood Eru not as a &amp;quot;fictional deity&amp;quot; but as a name in a fictional language for the actual monotheistic God, although in a mythological or fictional context. In a draft of a letter of [[1954]] to Peter Hastings, manager of the Newman Bookshop (a Catholic bookshop in [[Oxford]]), Tolkien defended non-orthodox aspects as rightly within the scope of his mythology, as an exploration of the infinite &amp;quot;potential variety&amp;quot; of God. Regarding the possibility of reincarnation of [[Elves]], Hastings had written:&lt;br /&gt;
{{quote|God has not used that device in any of the creations of which we have knowledge, and it seems to me to be stepping beyond the position of a sub-creator to produce it as an actual working thing, because a sub-creator, when dealing with the relations between creator and created, should use those channels which he knows the creator to have used already|Peter Hastings}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tolkien&#039;s reply contains an explanation of his view of the relation of (divine) Creation to (human) [[sub-creation]]:&lt;br /&gt;
{{quote|We differ entirely about the nature of the relation of sub-creation to Creation. I should have said that liberation &amp;quot;from the channels the creator is known to have used already&amp;quot; is the fundamental function of &amp;quot;sub-creation&amp;quot;, a tribute to the infinity of His potential variety [...] I am not a metaphysician; but I should have thought it a curious metaphysics &amp;amp;mdash; there is not one but many, indeed potentially innumerable ones &amp;amp;mdash; that declared the channels known (in such a finite corner as we have any inkling of) to have been used, are the only possible ones, or efficacious, or possibly acceptable to and by Him!|J.R.R. Tolkien, [[Letter 153]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hastings had also criticized the description of [[Tom Bombadil]] by [[Goldberry]]: &#039;&#039;&amp;quot;He is&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;, saying that this seemed to imply that Bombadil was God. 	 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tolkien replied to this:	 &lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;As for Tom Bombadil, I really do think you are being too serious, besides missing the point. [...] You rather remind me of a Protestant relation who to me objected to the (modern) Catholic habit of calling priests Father, because the name father belonged only to the First Person.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.mythgard.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Mythmoot2_Hensler_GodIluvatar.pdf God and Ilúvatar: Tolkien&#039;s Use of Biblical Parallels and Tropes in His Cosmogony] by Kevin R. Hensler&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.alice-dsl.net/lalaith/Tolkien/Eru.html Is Eru a Good God?] by [[Andreas Moehn]] (a [[Wikipedia:Dystheism|maltheistic]] view)&lt;br /&gt;
{{references}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Iluvatar}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Quenya names]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Ilúvatar]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fa:ارو]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/iluvatar]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Ilúvatar]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Nazg%C3%BBl&amp;diff=271428</id>
		<title>Nazgûl</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Nazg%C3%BBl&amp;diff=271428"/>
		<updated>2015-06-24T07:36:27Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Other names and titles */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Sources}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{race&lt;br /&gt;
|image=[[File:Nick Deligaris - Nazgûl.jpg|250px]]&lt;br /&gt;
|name=Nazgûl&lt;br /&gt;
|dominions=[[Angmar]], [[Dol Guldur]], [[Minas Morgul]]&lt;br /&gt;
|languages=[[Black Speech]], [[Westron]]&lt;br /&gt;
|height=Man-high&lt;br /&gt;
|length=&lt;br /&gt;
|skincolor=&lt;br /&gt;
|haircolor=&lt;br /&gt;
|feathers=&lt;br /&gt;
|distinctions=Without physical form&lt;br /&gt;
|lifespan=Indefinite&lt;br /&gt;
|members=[[Witch-king|Witch-king of Angmar]], [[Khamûl]]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;center&amp;gt;{{quote| &#039;They come from [[Mordor]],&#039; said [[Aragorn|Strider]] in a low voice. &#039;From Mordor, [[Barliman Butterbur|Barliman]], if that means anything to you.&#039; |&#039;&#039;[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]&#039;&#039;, [[Strider (chapter)|Strider]]}}&amp;lt;/center&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The &#039;&#039;&#039;[[#Etymology|Nazgûl]]&#039;&#039;&#039; ([[Black Speech]]: &#039;&#039;&#039;Ringwraiths&#039;&#039;&#039;, sometimes written &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Ring-wraiths&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;), also known as the &#039;&#039;&#039;Nine Riders&#039;&#039;&#039; or &#039;&#039;&#039;Black Riders&#039;&#039;&#039; (or simply &#039;&#039;&#039;the Nine&#039;&#039;&#039;), were [[Sauron]]&#039;s &amp;quot;most terrible servants&amp;quot; in [[Middle-earth]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Motion Picture Trilogy - The Nine.jpg|thumb|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sometime during the [[Second Age]] (after year {{SA|1600}}&amp;lt;ref group=note&amp;gt;Sauron created the One Ring around this year, and later distributed the Nine Rings (cf. {{App|B}} and {{UT|Concerning}}).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;) Sauron gave [[Nine Rings|nine Rings of Power]] to powerful mortal [[Men]]. It is said that three of the Nine were lords of [[Númenor]] corrupted by Sauron,&amp;lt;ref name=Akallabeth&amp;gt;{{S|Akallabeth}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and one was a king among the [[Easterlings]].&amp;lt;ref name=Black/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For many years the bearers used the rings to gain great wealth, prestige and power, becoming &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;. The effect of the rings caused their lives to be prolonged, and to see things of the [[Unseen]]. But over time their bodily forms faded until they became [[wraiths]] entirely, slaves under the domination of Sauron&#039;s [[The One Ring|One Ring]].&amp;lt;ref name=Rings/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Known as the Nazgûl, they first appeared around {{SA|2251}}&amp;lt;ref name=AppB1/&amp;gt; and were soon established as Sauron&#039;s principal servants. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When Sauron was overthrown in {{SA|3441}} at the hands of the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men]], the wraiths faded into the shadows.&amp;lt;ref name=AppB1&amp;gt;{{App|B1}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Third Age===&lt;br /&gt;
However around {{TA|1050|n}} of the [[Third Age]] Sauron returned in the form of a shadow in [[Greenwood the Great]], triggering also the return of his servants. It was around {{TA|1300}} when the [[Lord of the Nazgûl]] gathered evil [[Men]] and founded the Witch-kingdom of [[Angmar]]. From there he led Sauron&#039;s forces against the mannish kingdom of [[Arnor]] in {{TA|1409}}. He was eventually defeated in battle in {{TA|1975}} and returned to [[Mordor]], gathering the other Nazgûl in preparation for the return of Sauron to that realm.&amp;lt;ref name=AppB2/&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In {{TA|2000}}, they besieged [[Minas Ithil]] and captured it after a two-year siege. The city thereafter became the stronghold of the Nazgûl, from where they directed the rebuilding of Sauron&#039;s armies, also acquiring a &#039;&#039;[[palantíri|palantír]]&#039;&#039; for the Dark Lord.&amp;lt;ref name=AppB2&amp;gt;{{App|B2}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Ted_Nasmith_-_The_Nazgûl.jpg|thumb|200px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - &#039;&#039;The Nazgûl&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
Indeed, after his defeat in [[Dol Guldur]], Sauron returned to Mordor in {{TA|2942}} and declared himself openly in {{TA|2951}}. Three of the Nazgûl were sent to his fortress at [[Dol Guldur]] to garrison that outpost.&amp;lt;ref name=AppB2/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In {{TA|3017}} Sauron commanded the Ringwraiths to recover [[the One Ring]] of Power from &amp;quot;Baggins of the Shire&amp;quot;. Disguised as horse riders clad in black (hence the term &#039;&#039;Black Riders&#039;&#039;), they sought out [[Bilbo Baggins]] who, as [[Gollum]] had revealed, had the One Ring in his possession.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Dwarves]] of [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]] spoke of a rider who had come to offer Sauron&#039;s friendship and ask about [[Hobbits]].  As a token of their friendship he asked for a &amp;quot;trifle&amp;quot;, a ring, &amp;quot;the least of rings&amp;quot;, that the [[Bilbo Baggins|thief]] had stolen.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{FR|II2}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref group=note&amp;gt;The identity of the messenger is unknown. In [[fandom]] it has been proposed that he was the [[Mouth of Sauron]]. [[Michael Martinez]] [http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/01/26/is-the-messenger-sent-to-dain-a-black-rider-or-the-mouth-of-sauron/ considers more possible] that it was a Nazgûl .&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Nazgûl at this point were dependent on their black horses (stolen from [[Rohan]]) for transportation. When they were swept away by the waters of the river [[Bruinen]], their horses were killed.  The Ringwraiths were forced to return to Mordor to regroup. They reappeared later mounted on [[Fell beasts|flying creatures]], at which point they were referred to as &#039;&#039;&#039;Winged Nazgûl&#039;&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the conclusion of the [[War of the Ring]], all of the Nine Nazgûl were destroyed.  The [[Witch-king|Lord of the Nazgûl]] himself was slain by [[Éowyn]], the niece of King [[Théoden]] (with help from [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]], known as &amp;quot;The Magnificent&amp;quot; thereafter) during the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]].  The remaining eight Ringwraiths attacked the Army of the West during the last battle at the [[Black Gate]].  However, when [[Frodo Baggins]] put on the ring in the fires of [[Mount Doom]], Sauron ordered the eight remaining Nazgûl to fly with all possible speed to Mount Doom to intercept Frodo. They arrived too late, with the Ring falling into the fire along with the hapless Gollum. The Nazgûl were caught in the firestorm of the erupting mountain and were destroyed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Powers and abilities ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{quote|The Nazgûl were they, the Ringwraiths, the Enemy&#039;s most terrible servants; darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.|&#039;&#039;[[The Silmarillion]]&#039;&#039;, &amp;quot;[[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]]&amp;quot;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given form only through the attire of black cloaks and hauberks of silver mail, their original form was completely gone and invisible to mortal eyes. Their hypnotic eyes could be plainly distinguished from their dark clothing, and in a rage they appeared in a hellish fire. Mortal men could not touch them (unless blessed by weapons or tools of the ancient [[Elves]] of the [[First Age]] or by the [[Dúnedain]], such as the barrow-blade used by [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]] on the [[Witch-king|Witch-king of Angmar]]). The Ringwraiths had many weapons, which included long swords of steel and flame, daggers with venomous properties, and black maces of great strength.&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Ted Nasmith - The Attack of the Wraiths.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - &#039;&#039;The Attack of the Wraiths&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
Their arsenal of deadly armaments was not confined to physical means; they also had seemingly magical weapons of devastating power. They were surrounded by an aura of terror, which affected all living creatures; their &amp;quot;breath&amp;quot; (called the &#039;&#039;[[Black Breath]]&#039;&#039;) was poisonous, and their cries caused terror and despair in all who heard them. Some of the Nazgûl appear to have been accomplished sorcerers and used magic to devastating effect. According to Tolkien, though, it was the fear they inspired that was the chief danger:&lt;br /&gt;
{{quote|They have no great physical power against the fearless,&amp;quot; he wrote, &amp;quot;but what they have, and the fear that they inspire, is enormously increased in darkness|&#039;&#039;[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]&#039;&#039;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Nazgûl existed mostly in the wraith world (the [[Unseen]]), making them extremely difficult to harm.  Ordinary weapons would not hurt them, and even weapons of [[Númenóreans|Númenórean]] manufacture would be destroyed if they passed through the wraith forms of the Nazgûl.  They could not, however, interact normally with the material world (the [[Seen]]): they needed garments and weapons provided by Sauron to give them form.  Consequently, they could be defeated by attacks that destroyed their disguises, forcing them to return to [[Sauron]] to receive new ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Nazgûl spread terror in mortal creatures merely by their presence.  Only specially trained horses or the [[fell beasts]] of [[Mordor]] could bear them.  They caused panic and despair in their enemies simply by flying overhead, and only individuals of great courage could face them in combat.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They were also poisonous to mortal beings, causing a condition known as the [[Black Breath]].  Merely being in the vicinity of one of them could cause disorientation and illness.  Intense exposure could be lethal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Nazgûl had poor vision in the material world, but they were acutely aware of the beings with a presence in the wraith world, like the wearer of [[the One Ring]] and certain Elves, such as Glorfindel.  Anyone who could see into the wraith world could see the Nazgûl as they had appeared in their mortal lives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Witch-king]] could also affect matter with his voice, shattering the dagger that Frodo had gotten in the [[Barrow-downs]] and weakening the gates of [[Minas Tirith]].  Whether other Nazgûl could perform similar feats is unknown.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Identities ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Only a few of the Nazgûl are named or identified individually. Their leader was the [[Witch-king|Witch-king of Angmar]], and his second in command was named [[Khamûl]]. Khamûl was a lord of [[Easterlings]],&amp;lt;ref name=Black&amp;gt;{{UT|Black}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and was the only Nazgûl known by his name. Three of them were [[Númenóreans]].&amp;lt;ref name=Akallabeth/&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Etymology==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Nazgûl&#039;&#039; means &amp;quot;ringwraiths&amp;quot; in the [[Black Speech]] (consisting of &#039;&#039;[[nazg]]&#039;&#039; + &#039;&#039;[[gûl]]&#039;&#039;).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{PE|17}}, pp. 31, 79, 125&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Other names and titles ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among their many names and titles were: the Ringwraiths, the Black Riders, the Fell Riders, the Nine Riders, the Black Wings, the Shadows, the Nine, the Nine Servants of the Lord of the Rings, and the Shriekers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An [[Elvish]] name given for the Ringwraiths is &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Úlairi&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;ref name=Rings&amp;gt;{{S|Rings}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{PM|Akallabeth}}, p. 153 (§30)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Linguists have remarked that it is a [[Quenya]] plural name of unknown meaning and etymology.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{webcite|author=[[Helge Fauskanger]]|articleurl=http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/eng-quen.rtf|articlename=English-Quenya Wordlist (Quettaparma Quenyanna)|dated=|website=Arda|accessed=25 June 2011}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[Ruth S. Noel]], &#039;&#039;[[The Languages of Tolkien&#039;s Middle-earth]]&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Michael Martinez]], analysing the word, has tentatively suggested that: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{blockquote| &#039;&#039;Úlairi&#039;&#039; is a compound formed from &#039;&#039;Ú&#039;&#039; + &#039;&#039;lai&#039;&#039; + &#039;&#039;ri&#039;&#039; with probable meaning of &amp;quot;un (bad or immoral)&amp;quot; + &amp;quot;shadow&amp;quot; + &amp;quot;ones&amp;quot;. In other words, the name may mean something like &amp;quot;those who are in/of unnatural shadow&amp;quot;.|&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{webcite|author=[[Michael Martinez]]|articleurl=http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2014/08/15/what-is-the-literal-translation-of-ulairi/|articlename=What is the Literal Translation of Úlairi?|dated=15 August 2014|website=[http://middle-earth.xenite.org/ middle-earth.xenite.org]|accessed=16 August 2014}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Portrayal in adaptations ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;gallery&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Ringwraiths.jpg|Four of the Nazgûl on horseback in [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1978 film)]]&lt;br /&gt;
File:The Return of the King (1980 film) - Ringwraith.jpg|A Ringwraith in [[The Return of the King (1980 film)|&#039;&#039;The Return of the King&#039;&#039; (1980 film)]]&lt;br /&gt;
File:The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring - Ringwraiths.jpg|The Nazgûl in [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (film series)]]&amp;lt;/gallery&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1978 film)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Nine are clad in brown and black, and have red eyes. The attack on &#039;&#039;[[The Prancing Pony]]&#039;&#039; is their deed, not that of any accomplices. After the attack, they cast off their hoods, revealing the black armour and hideous masks they wear beneath their cloaks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1980: [[The Return of the King (1980 film)|&#039;&#039;The Return of the King&#039;&#039; (1980 film)]]&lt;br /&gt;
:The Nine are skull headed demons, who ride winged horses. The Witch-king himself rides a dragon-like creature, and has no face. Only a suspended crown and two red eyes can be seen. The Nazgûl have the [[Red Eye]] of [[Barad-dûr]] rather than the emblem of [[Minas Morgul]]. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1981 radio series)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The role of the Ringwraiths was expanded with material from &#039;&#039;[[The Hunt for the Ring]]&#039;&#039;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1982-97: &#039;&#039;[[Middle-earth Role Playing]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The name of the eight, other than Khamûl, are given as &#039;&#039;Er-Murazor&#039;&#039; (the [[Witch-king]], of Númenórean race), &#039;&#039;Dwar&#039;&#039;, &#039;&#039;Ji Indur&#039;&#039;, &#039;&#039;Akhorahil&#039;&#039; (Númenórean), &#039;&#039;Hoarmurath&#039;&#039;, &#039;&#039;Adunaphel&#039;&#039; (female Númenórean), &#039;&#039;Ren&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;Uvatha&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{ICE|Mannish}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{ICE|Angus}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1988: &#039;&#039;[[J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s War in Middle Earth]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:WiMe-Nazgûl-1-.png|thumb|200px]]&lt;br /&gt;
:The Nazgûl are portrayed as black figures with red eyes and purple mantle.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2001-: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:All the Nazgûl are named - The Witch-king of Angmar, The Dark Marshal, Khamûl The Easterling, The Betrayer, The Shadow Lord, The Undying, The [[Dwimmerlaik]], The Tainted and The Knight of [[Umbar]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring&#039;&#039; (video game)]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Black Riders form a threat in the Shire-stages of the game, where they need to be avoided by the player (in the persona of [[Frodo Baggins]]), and as the end boss for the game (in the persona of [[Aragorn]]). They are tall and robed in black, and nothing is seen underneath. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (film series)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Nazgûl serve as the suspense in the first half of [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring|the first film]]. Their dialogue is changed; the conversation with [[Gaffer Gamgee]] is omitted, and the conversation with [[Farmer Maggot]] is reduced. The Nine have an iconic scream, provided by [[Fran Walsh]]. Under their robes, they are pale white ghostly creatures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:After the death of the Witch-king, the other eight are taken out by [[eagles]] and debris from [[Mount Doom]], however, nothing is told of their individual fates. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2001-7: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Trading Card Game]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Nazgûl, other than the Witch-king, are given [[Neo-Elvish|Neo-Quenya]] titles based on their numbers, and various English titles:&lt;br /&gt;
*Úlairë Attëa (from &#039;&#039;[[atta]]&#039;&#039; = 2); Black Predator, Keeper of Dol Guldur, Second of the Nine Riders, The Easterling. &lt;br /&gt;
*Úlairë Nelya (from &#039;&#039;[[neldë]]&#039;&#039; = 3); Black Hunter, Lieutenant of Morgul, Third of the Nine Riders&lt;br /&gt;
*Úlairë Cantëa (from &#039;&#039;[[canta]]&#039;&#039; = 4); Black Assassin, Lieutenant of Dol Guldur, Fourth of the Nine Riders&lt;br /&gt;
*Úlairë Lemenya (from &#039;&#039;[[lempe]]&#039;&#039; = 5); Black Enemy, Lieutenant of Morgul, Fifth of the Nine Riders&lt;br /&gt;
*Úlairë Enquëa (from &#039;&#039;[[enquë]]&#039;&#039; = 6); Black Threat, Lieutenant of Morgul, Sixth of the Nine Riders&lt;br /&gt;
*Úlairë Ostëa [&#039;&#039;sic&#039;&#039;, later corrected to Úlairë Otsëa] (from &#039;&#039;[[otso]]&#039;&#039; = 7); Black Specter, Lieutenant of Morgul, Seventh of the Nine Riders&lt;br /&gt;
*Úlairë Toldëa (from &#039;&#039;[[tolto]]&#039;&#039; = 8); Black Shadow, Messenger of Morgul, Eight of the Nine Riders&lt;br /&gt;
*Úlairë Nertëa (from &#039;&#039;[[nertë]]&#039;&#039; = 9); Black Horseman, Messenger of Dol Guldur, Ninth of the Nine Riders.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=801|articlename=Naming the Nazgul|dated=|website=[http://forum.barrowdowns.com/index.php? Forum.Barrowdowns.com]|accessed=31 July 2012}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.tradecardsonline.com/im/selectCard/game_id/1/goal/|articlename=Lord Of The Rings (search function)|dated=|website=[http://www.tradecardsonline.com/ Trade Cards Online]|accessed=31 July 2012}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2004: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Mordor faction has two different Nazgûl units: &amp;quot;Witch-king on Fell Beast&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Nazgûl on Fell Beast&amp;quot;. They are primarily used for scouting and surprise attacks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:The Lord of the Rings War in the North - Nazgûl.jpg|200px|thumb|The Nazgûl attack [[Sarn Ford]] in &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]&#039;&#039;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2006: &#039;&#039;[[EA&#039;s The Battle for Middle-earth II]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:A new Ringwraith is introduced in the expansion pack, &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king|The Rise of the Witch-king]]&#039;&#039;. Morgomir is the &amp;quot;Lieutenant of Carn-Dûm&amp;quot;, the right-hand man of the Witch-king, of [[Black Númenóreans|Black Númenórean]] descent. The design is similar to that in [[Peter Jackson]]&#039;s films: he is hooded and cloaked when he works for the Mordor faction, and white and ghostly when he fights for Angmar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2007: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Nazgûl appear several times throughout the game. Hobbit characters first witness the Black Riders in the Shire during the Prologue. Early in the game one of the Nine wounds a Dunedain Ranger Amdir with a Morgul blade, who is later transformed into a Wraith himself, despite the bess efforts of Free Peoples. Later, the player attempts to resist the troubles the Nine are spreading in Bree-Land. Various people along their path - from Hobbits, to Men of Bree, to people east of Amon Sul - note how the local wildlife became unusually aggressive lately, though few connect it to the influence of Nazgûl.&lt;br /&gt;
:As stated in &#039;&#039;[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]&#039;&#039;, only eight horses of the Wraiths were found along the shores of Bruinen. Glorfindel, Elrond and his sons all enlist you to find the missing one - and while the horse is eventually found, it is clear the the Nazgûl himself escaped. The player foils his attempts to organize the Trolls of the Trollshaws and pursues him into the [[Misty Mountains]], where the severely weakened Wraith is finally defeated, with his spirit send back to Mordor.&lt;br /&gt;
:During the Fellowship&#039;s stay in [[Lothlorien]], the Galadhrim Elves launch a military strike against [[Dol Guldur]], to draw the attention of the Eye from the company departing down the Shores of Anduin. At this point, three Nazgûl reside in the fortress, their names are given as &amp;quot;The Black Blade of Lebennin&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;The Gloom of Nurn&amp;quot; and the strongest of them three &amp;quot;The Lieutenant of Dol Guldur&amp;quot;. A large force of players confronts the Lieutenant and his Fell Beast at the chief tower of Dol Guldur.&lt;br /&gt;
:During their travel down the waters of the Great River, Legolas shot and killed a fell shadow in the sky, not knowing it to be a Nazgûl. The player is later able to find the corpse of the fell beast in the [[Brown Lands]] and it becomes clear that a Nazgûl is not far - only this time the player cannot receive help from Elrond or Galadriel, who helped him survive two last encounters. At night, the Wraith ambushes your friends, but the player manages to drive him away with the use of fire. A girl named Nona is wounded in this fight, but the Free Peoples managed to bring her to Lady Galadriel in time to heal the wound.&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2009: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:In the Evil Campaign, the Eight Nazgûl bring Witch-King back to life after Sauron reclaims The One Ring.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2011: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The Nazgûl appear in a flasback during the prologue of the game, in which they attack the [[Rangers of the North|Rangers]] at [[Sarn Ford]], the entrance of [[the Shire]]. Later in the flashback their leader, the [[Witch-king]], speaks with [[Agandaûr]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]], &#039;&#039;Prologue&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;[[:Category:Images of Nazgûl|Images of Nazgûl]]&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
* the [[Witch-king]] of [[Angmar]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Khamûl]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2014/01/29/what-is-the-history-of-the-nazgul/ What is the History of the Nazgul?] by [[Michael Martinez]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references|note}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]&#039;&#039;, passim.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;[[The Two Towers]]&#039;&#039;, passim.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;[[The Return of the King]]&#039;&#039;, passim.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;[[Unfinished Tales]]&#039;&#039;, [[The Hunt for the Ring]]&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;[[The Treason of Isengard]]&#039;&#039;, [[The Great River (HoMe)|The Great River]]&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;[[The War of the Ring]]&#039;&#039;, [[The Passage of the Marshes (HoMe)|The Passage of the Marshes]]&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;[[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]]&#039;&#039;, [[Letter 156|#156]], [[Letter 210|#210]], [[Letter 212|#212]], [[Letter 246|#246]], [[Letter 297|#297]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], &#039;&#039;[[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings]]&#039;&#039;, in &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader&#039;s Companion]]&#039;&#039; (edited by [[Wayne G. Hammond|W. G. Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull|C. Scull]])&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Nazgul}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Black Speech words]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Nazgûl]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Undead]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/nazgul]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fa:نزگول]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Images_of_staffs&amp;diff=271204</id>
		<title>Category talk:Images of staffs</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Images_of_staffs&amp;diff=271204"/>
		<updated>2015-06-23T04:45:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: Created page with &amp;quot;Shouldn&amp;#039;t the title of this page be &amp;quot;images of &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;staves&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;?  That is the correct plural form of &amp;quot;staff&amp;quot;, and I am fairly confident that Tolkien would agree.&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Shouldn&#039;t the title of this page be &amp;quot;images of &#039;&#039;&#039;staves&#039;&#039;&#039;?  That is the correct plural form of &amp;quot;staff&amp;quot;, and I am fairly confident that Tolkien would agree.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Kinslaying_at_Alqualond%C3%AB&amp;diff=270501</id>
		<title>Kinslaying at Alqualondë</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Kinslaying_at_Alqualond%C3%AB&amp;diff=270501"/>
		<updated>2015-06-16T05:59:14Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Background */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{cleanup}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{disambig-more|Kinslaying|[[Kinslaying (disambiguation)]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Ted Nasmith - The Kinslaying at Alqualondë.jpg|thumb|right|350px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - &#039;&#039;The Kinslaying at [[Alqualondë]]&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
The &#039;&#039;&#039;Kinslaying at Alqualondë&#039;&#039;&#039;, or the &#039;&#039;&#039;First Kinslaying&#039;&#039;&#039;, was an important event in the history of the [[Eldar]] in which the [[Noldor]]in [[Elves]] of [[Fëanor]] killed [[Teleri]] Elves in order to gain their ships.&lt;br /&gt;
==Background==&lt;br /&gt;
When [[Fëanor]] decided to leave [[Valinor]] he needed ships to travel to Middle-earth, but the Noldor possessed no ships, and Fëanor feared that any delay in their departure would cause the Noldor to reconsider. The Noldor, led by Fëanor and his sons, tried to persuade the [[Teleri]] of [[Alqualondë]], to give him their ships. However, the Teleri would not help them, since it was against the will of the [[Valar]], and in fact attempted to persuade their friends to reconsider their decision to leave. Displeased with the Teleri&#039;s answer, the [[Noldor]] started taking the ships by force. This angered the Teleri, and they threatened the Noldor with rocks and arrows, and they threw many of Fëanor&#039;s Ñoldor out of the ships into the harbor. They also attempted to block the harbour.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then the Noldor drew swords, and the Teleri their [[Bows|bows]], and there was a bitter fight that seemed evenly matched, until the second Host of the Ñoldor, led by [[Fingon]], arrived together with some of [[Fingolfin]]&#039;s people. Misunderstanding the situation, they assumed the Teleri had attacked the Ñoldor under orders of the Valar, and they joined the fight. In the end, many Teleri were slain and the ships were taken. The Ñoldor that continued towards Middle-earth were therefore [[Doom_of_Mandos|cursed by Mandos]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Later Kinslayings==&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Sack of Doriath]] where [[Dior|Dior Eluchíl]] was killed by the [[Sons of Fëanor]] is referred to as the &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Second Kinslaying]]&#039;&#039;&#039; in &#039;&#039;[[The Silmarillion]]&#039;&#039;, and the attack by the Sons of Fëanor on the [[Mouths of Sirion]] where [[Elwing]] was attacked is called the &#039;&#039;&#039;[[Third Kinslaying]]&#039;&#039;&#039;. It was stated by [[Eönwë]] herald of [[Manwë]] that because of these evil deeds the remaining Sons of Fëanor had lost all right to the [[Silmarils]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conflicts of the Elder Days]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Sippenmord#Sippenmord_von_Alqualonde]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Alqualondën Sukusurma]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Hobbit_1st_edition&amp;diff=270483</id>
		<title>The Hobbit 1st edition</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Hobbit_1st_edition&amp;diff=270483"/>
		<updated>2015-06-14T22:47:24Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* First edition */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Cleanup}}&lt;br /&gt;
This article contains information specifically on the &#039;&#039;&#039;The Hobbit 1st edition&#039;&#039;&#039; published by [[Allen and Unwin|George Allen &amp;amp; Unwin]], for general information on the book see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[The Hobbit]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==First edition==&lt;br /&gt;
The Hobbit has been published in two editions. The second intended to be more in tune with &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;. For example the first edition makes a reference to &amp;quot;[[tomatoes]]&amp;quot; which was altered to &amp;quot;pickles&amp;quot; by Tolkien in the second.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first edition, Gollum willingly bets his magic ring on the outcome of the riddle game. During the writing of &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; Tolkien saw the need to revise this passage, in order to reflect the concept of [[the One Ring]] and its powerful hold on Gollum. Tolkien tried many different passages in the chapter that would become chapter 2 of &#039;&#039;the Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;, &amp;quot;The Shadow of the Past&amp;quot;. Eventually Tolkien decided a rewrite of &#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; was in order, and he sent a sample chapter of this rewrite (&amp;quot;Riddles in the Dark&amp;quot;) to his publishers. Initially he heard nothing further, but when he was sent galley proofs of a new edition he learned to his surprise the new chapter had been incorporated as the result of a misunderstanding.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tolkien explained the two different versions in the introduction of &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;, as well as inside &amp;quot;The Shadow of the Past&amp;quot;, as a &amp;quot;lie&amp;quot; that Bilbo made up, probably because of the One Ring&#039;s influence on him, and which he originally wrote down in his book. Inside &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;, Bilbo finally confesses the real story at the Council of [[Elrond]], although Gandalf had deduced the truth earlier. As Tolkien presented himself as the translator of the supposedly historic &#039;&#039;[[Red Book of Westmarch]]&#039;&#039;, where Bilbo and Frodo&#039;s stories were recorded, he further explained the two differing stories in &#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; by stating he had originally used Bilbo&#039;s original story, but later retranslated the work with the &amp;quot;true story&amp;quot; recorded by Frodo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This first edition also mentions &amp;quot;[[gnomes]]&amp;quot;, an earlier word Tolkien used to refer to the second kindred of the [[Calaquendi|High Elves]] &amp;amp;mdash; the [[Noldor]] (or &amp;quot;Deep Elves&amp;quot;). Tolkien thought that &amp;quot;gnome&amp;quot;, being derived from the Greek &#039;&#039;gnosis&#039;&#039; (knowledge), was a good name for the Noldor he created to be the wisest of the other Elves. But with its English connotations of a small, secretive, and unattractive creature, Tolkien removed it from later editions. He made other minor changes in order to conform the narrative to events in &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; and in the ideas he was developing for the &#039;&#039;[[Quenta Silmarillion]]&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However this still does not fit perfectly: even revised, &#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; is so much different in tone that it sometimes seems to belong in another universe from other Middle-earth works. Examples include the following:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Anachronisms: Bilbo has a clock. Many artists like [[John Howe]] prefer to omit it from their paintings. Bilbo also is mentioned to have matches for his pipe. In the world of Lord of the Rings matches had not yet been invented and all use flints.&lt;br /&gt;
*The Trolls have English first and last names, like fairy-tale characters.&lt;br /&gt;
*Lighthearted use of &amp;quot;magic&amp;quot;: when Bilbo tries to steal a purse from the Trolls, the purse shouts.&lt;br /&gt;
*Elves appear either as silly and mischievous (Rivendell) or even hostile (Mirkwood).&lt;br /&gt;
*Orcs are still called Goblins, and are more like bogeymen than man-eating humanoid warriors.&lt;br /&gt;
*Gandalf mentions Radagast as his cousin. (Then again, both Gandalf and Radagast are angelic [[Maiar]] spirits, and thus in a sense are &amp;quot;related&amp;quot;, both being children of the thought of [[Ilúvatar|Eru Ilúvatar]].)&lt;br /&gt;
*The extensive mentioning (and brief appearance) of [[Giants]]. Giants were never developed in Tolkien&#039;s other works, but although they should exist and possibly take a grand part in the past and upcoming Wars, they are never mentioned again. Even if Giants are seen as a kind of large Trolls, they are hard to justify, as trolls are described as either incredibly stupid or incredibly evil: quite unlike the Stone Giants of &#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some of the tone differences can be explained by accepting Bilbo as the author of the work: Bilbo wrote the story of his journeys to recount them to the children of Hobbiton and therefore changed the story somewhat. Apparent major differences such as the different perception of the Ring can also be explained by Bilbo&#039;s lacking knowledge of these matters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==1st impression==&lt;br /&gt;
The first impressions was printed in 1937 included black and white illustrations only.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==2nd impression==&lt;br /&gt;
The second impression was printed in 1937 and included four color illustrations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==3rd impression==&lt;br /&gt;
The third impression was printed in 1942 and included only 1 color illustration for the War Economy Standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==4th impression==&lt;br /&gt;
The fourth impression was printed in 1946 and was similar to the third impression. 4,000 copies were printed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:The Hobbit editions]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Gandalf&amp;diff=270346</id>
		<title>Gandalf</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Gandalf&amp;diff=270346"/>
		<updated>2015-06-11T06:20:18Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: /* Inspiration */ inserted missing &amp;quot;a&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;{{Countdown}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{disambig-more|Gandalf|[[Gandalf (disambiguation)]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{maiar infobox&lt;br /&gt;
| image=[[File:Matt Stewart - Gandalf - A Light in the Dark.jpg|250px]]&lt;br /&gt;
| name=Gandalf&lt;br /&gt;
| pronun=&lt;br /&gt;
| othernames=The Grey, The White, [[Gandalf/Names#Olórin|Olórin]], [[Gandalf/Names#Mithrandir|Mithrandir]], [[Gandalf/Names#Incánus|Incánus]], [[Gandalf/Names#Tharkûn|Tharkûn]], [[Gandalf/Names#The White Rider|The White Rider]], [[Gandalf/Names#Greyhame|Gandalf Greyhame]], [[Gandalf/Names#Stormcrow|Stormcrow]], [[Gandalf#Etymology|Wand-elf]], [[Gandalf/Names#Láthspell|Láthspell]]&lt;br /&gt;
| titles=&lt;br /&gt;
| position=&lt;br /&gt;
| location=No fixed abode&lt;br /&gt;
| affiliation=[[Istari]] (Wizards)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;[[White Council]]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;[[Fellowship of the Ring]]&lt;br /&gt;
| language=&lt;br /&gt;
| birth=&lt;br /&gt;
| birthlocation=&lt;br /&gt;
| rule=&lt;br /&gt;
| sailedwest=[[29 September]] {{TA|3021}}&lt;br /&gt;
| sailedfrom=[[Grey Havens]]&lt;br /&gt;
| age=&lt;br /&gt;
| notablefor=&lt;br /&gt;
| house=&lt;br /&gt;
| parentage=&lt;br /&gt;
| siblings=&lt;br /&gt;
| gender=&lt;br /&gt;
| height=5&#039;6&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;MB&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{HM|MB}}, page 49&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
| hair=Long white, silver beard&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Meetings&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{FR|Meetings}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
| eyes=&lt;br /&gt;
| clothing=Grey robes (later white), blue hat, grey scarf, black boots&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Party&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
| weapons=Staff&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;[[Glamdring]]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;[[Narya]]&lt;br /&gt;
| steed=[[Shadowfax]]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{Pronounce|Gandalf.mp3|Ardamir}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{Pronounce|Quenya - Olórin.mp3|Gilgamesh}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{Quote|Gandalf was shorter in stature than the [[Elrond|other]] [[Glorfindel|two]]; but his long white hair, his sweeping silver beard, and his broad shoulders, made him look like some wise king of ancient legend. In his aged face under great snowy brows his eyes were set like coals that could suddenly burst into fire.|&#039;&#039;[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]&#039;&#039;, [[Many Meetings]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Gandalf&#039;&#039;&#039; was one of the five [[Istari]] sent to [[Middle-earth]] by the [[Valar]] in the [[Third Age]]. In [[Valinor]] he was known as Olórin. Gandalf was instrumental in bringing about the demise of [[Sauron]] in {{TA|3019}}, chiefly by encouraging others and dispensing his wisdom at pivotal times. Gandalf was originally robed in grey, and second to [[Saruman]] in the Order of [[wizards]]. After his fall in [[Moria]], Gandalf returned to Middle-earth as head of the Order, robed in white. Gandalf was noteworthy for his keen interest in [[Hobbits]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
The wisest of the Maiar, Gandalf was created by [[Ilúvatar]] before the [[Music of the Ainur]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Ainu&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{S|Ainu}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; At the beginning of Time, he was amongst the [[Ainur]] who entered into [[Eä]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;SVala&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{S|Vala}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Here he became one of the [[Maiar]] of [[Manwë]], [[Varda]], [[Irmo]] and [[Nienna]] named &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Olórin&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;. By Nienna he learned pity and patience.&amp;lt;ref name=vala&amp;gt;{{S|IIc}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He loved the [[Elves of Valinor|Elves]] but he walked [[unseen]] among them, or wore a [[fana]] that appeared like an [[Elves|Elf]], and sent them fair visions in their hearts that made them wiser. Like Nienna, he took pity on the sorrows of the [[Children of Ilúvatar]] and drove those who listened to him out of despair.&amp;lt;ref name=vala/&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During the [[Third Age]], while [[Sauron]]&#039;s &#039;dark spirit of malice&#039; was increasing over [[Middle-earth]], the Valar chose [[Istari|five emissaries]] from among the Maiar to go and help the [[Portal:Characters|peoples]]. [[Manwë]] selected Olórin, who, at first, did not wish to go, as he feared Sauron. However, Manwë said that that was all the more reason why he should go.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Istari&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{UT|13}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;. Furthermore, [[the One Ring]], the location of much of Sauron&#039;s power, presumably still existed somewhere in Middle-earth. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Olórin submitted to the will of Manwë, and departed Valinor to [[Mithlond]] in the year {{TA|1000}}.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Istari&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; He arrived after the others, [[Curumo]], [[Aiwendil]], [[Pallando]], and [[Alatar]], at about the same time the [[Necromancer]] appeared in [[Mirkwood]].&lt;br /&gt;
===Coming to Middle-earth===&lt;br /&gt;
Olórin , like the other Wizards, took the shape of an old man.  He was robed in gray and went about as a wanderer and counselor.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At Mithlond he was welcomed by [[Glorfindel]], his friend from Valinor, sent earlier on a similar mission, and [[Círdan]] the shipwright, who possessed [[Narya]], one of the [[Three Rings|Three Elven Rings]] of power.  Círdan divined in Olórin a sense of strength and power despite his appearance as a bent and aged old man. Círdan gave Narya to Olórin, who was renamed &#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;Gandalf&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039;&#039; with a prediction of his future struggles with evil, and a promise that it would support and aid him in his labors.  Then Círdan said &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;But as for me, my heart is with the [[Belegaer|Sea]], and I will dwell by the grey shores until the last ship sails.  I will await you.&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ThirdAge&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{App|B2}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:John Howe - Gandalf the Grey.jpg|thumb|[[John Howe]] - &#039;&#039;Gandalf the Grey&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf then began his sojourn in Middle-earth. Unlike Saruman, Gandalf did not go east&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;To the East I go not&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and did not take up a single permanent residence. Gandalf apparently restricted his activities to the [[Westlands]] of Middle-earth, where the remnants of the [[Dúnedain]] and the [[Eldar]] remained to oppose Sauron. He was known by many names during the long years he remained in Middle-earth: Elves named him &#039;&#039;[[Gandalf/Names#Mithrandir|Mithrandir]]&#039;&#039;, the Grey Pilgrim, while the men of [[Arnor]] named him Gandalf, which became his most common name. He was also known as &#039;&#039;[[Gandalf/Names#Incánus|Incánus]]&#039;&#039; (in the south), and &#039;&#039;[[Gandalf/Names#Tharkûn|Tharkûn]]&#039;&#039; to the [[Dwarves]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Istari&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A legend says that Gandalf was given by [[Yavanna]] the [[Elfstone]] of [[Eärendil]], to bring to the peoples of Middle-earth as a token that the Valar had not forsaken them. He gave it to [[Galadriel]], and remarked prophetically that she would in turn pass it to an individual who would also be called [[Aragorn|Elessar]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{UT|6}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Early vigilance===&lt;br /&gt;
Around {{TA|1100}},&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ThirdAge&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; the Istari and the Eldar discovered that some evil entity resided at [[Dol Guldur]] in Mirkwood. Dark shapes moved in the forest and evil began to multiply in the woods. Some thought a [[Nazgûl]] had returned to torment the world, or some new evil was arising.  Gandalf was unsure, and feared that perhaps Sauron himself might have returned.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Rings&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{S|Rings}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:John Howe - Pass the Doors of Dol Guldur.jpg|thumb|200px|left|[[John Howe]] - &#039;&#039;Pass the Doors of Dol Guldur&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
Over the next two hundred years the evil continued to grow, as well as the source directing it. [[Orcs]] were multiplying in the [[Misty Mountains]] and elsewhere. The [[Witch-king]], the mightiest of the Nazgûl, had built a fortress in [[Angmar]] in the Northern wastelands and waged unending war against the Kingdom of Arnor. Meanwhile Moria and [[Minas Ithil]] fell under a shadow, while other wars, plagues, and catastrophes occurred across Middle-earth. Gandalf went to Dol Guldur in {{TA|2063|n}} to discover its secret.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ThirdAge&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; An entity known only as the &#039;[[Necromancer]]&#039; fled before him preventing Gandalf from identifying him.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Rings&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; After Gandalf&#039;s incursion, the evil there seemed to desist, and its absence allowed for some centuries of calmness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That peaceful period was known as the [[Watchful Peace]] and lasted for almost four hundred years, but the Nazgûl had used this period to prepare for Sauron&#039;s return, in {{TA|2460|n}}.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ThirdAge&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; Realising the returning evil, the [[Wise]] formed the [[White Council]] three years later. [[Galadriel]], bearer of one of the Three Elven Rings and mighty among the Eldar, wished Gandalf to be the chief of the Council, but it was Saruman who took this place-- because of his vast knowledge, but also because Gandalf refused this position, wishing to set down no roots and to maintain his independence.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Rings&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During his wanderings in [[Eriador]], Gandalf met and befriended the isolated and secretive people of the [[Hobbits]] in their country, [[The Shire]]. During the [[Long Winter]] of {{TA|2758|n}} Gandalf came to their aid.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ThirdAge&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; It was then when he witnessed and admired the pity and courage the humble Hobbits reserved in their hearts.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Erebor&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When King [[Thráin II]], a dwarf of the royal line of [[Lonely Mountain]], disappeared on journey to Erebor, Gandalf looked for him. At some point after {{TA|2845|n}} he entered the abandoned city of [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]]. After his vain search the Wizard exited through the [[Doors of Durin]]; however this experience did not help him know how to open the doors from the outside.&amp;lt;ref name=journey&amp;gt;{{FR|Journey}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In {{TA|2850|n}}, his quest led him once more to Dol Guldur, this time in secrecy.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ThirdAge&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; He found Thráin in the dungeons, who gave the Wizard his last possessions, the [[Thrór&#039;s Map|map]] and key to Erebor&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Durin&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{App|Durin}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;. Most importantly, he found that the Necromancer was no Nazgûl – it was Sauron himself, and he had taken [[Ring of Thrór|the last]] of the [[Seven Rings]] from the Dwarf King; Sauron was gathering the remaining [[Rings of Power]] and possibly searching for his lost [[The One Ring|One Ring]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf escaped Dol Guldur and returned to the White Council.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Rings&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; After relating his discoveries, he urged the council to attack Sauron while the One Ring was still lost and Sauron&#039;s power immature. But Saruman said that it was better to watch and wait; that the One Ring had long ago rolled from [[Anduin]] to the Sea. The majority of the council agreed with Saruman. [[Elrond]] Half-elven, a powerful member of the council, later privately told Gandalf he had a foreboding that the Ring would be found, and that the war to end the age was coming. Indeed, he added, he feared that it would end in darkness and despair. Gandalf encouraged him, saying there were many &amp;quot;strange chances,&amp;quot; and that, &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;help oft shall come from the hands of the weak&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;. Gandalf did not yet realize that Saruman now wanted the ring for himself and was secretly searching for it along the banks of river Anduin.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Quest for Erebor===&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf would visit the Shire occasionally and participate in their parties where he impressed young Hobbits with his fireworks, and his stories about [[Dragons]], [[Orcs#Orcs and Goblins|Goblins]] and princesses.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Erebor&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; He was thus known to be &amp;quot;responsible for so many quiet lads and lasses going off into the Blue for mad adventures&amp;quot;. He also met a relatively adventurous Hobbit named [[Bilbo Baggins]] although he was far from &amp;quot;adventuresome.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Party&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf was concerned about the weak state of the North. [[Smaug]] the [[Dragons|Dragon]] had destroyed both the [[Kingdom under the Mountain]] and the town of [[Dale]], and Gandalf feared that [[Sauron]] might use the desolation around [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]] to regain the northern passes in the mountains and the old lands of Angmar. Gandalf knew that [[Dwarves|Dwarf]] lord [[Thorin]] planned to battle against Smaug, but he knew that it would not be enough. In {{TA|2941|n}},&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ThirdAge&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; Gandalf happened across the Dwarf lord [[Thorin]] while staying the night in [[Bree]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Erebor&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{UT|Erebor}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Thorin initiated conversation; he had been having a strange feeling urging him to seek Gandalf. Gandalf was intrigued, for he had thought to seek Thorin as well. They found they were taking the same road for a while (Thorin passing through [[the Shire]] on his way to the [[Blue Mountains|Ered Luin]]), and they agreed to travel together. Thorin wanted advice, and Gandalf in turn wanted to discuss the Dragon Smaug with Thorin.&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:David T. Wenzel - Good Morning Mr. Baggins.jpg|thumb|[[David T. Wenzel]] - &#039;&#039;Good Morning Mr. Baggins&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
Ultimately, Gandalf concocted a plan wherein Thorin could destroy Smaug and recover his family fortune, albeit with a &amp;quot;burglar&amp;quot; of Gandalf&#039;s own choosing.  Gandalf had a feeling that a Hobbit should be involved, and he remembered Bilbo Baggins. At first he found only [[Holman Cotton]] as Bilbo had left on the occasion of the [[Yestare|Elven new year]], something that persuaded Gandalf that Bilbo was the right person for the job.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Erebor&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; He visited Bilbo later, bringing along the kinsmen of Thorin.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Party&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{H|Party}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; In the end Gandalf convinced the reluctant Baggins to become a burglar for Thorin. Gandalf then accompanied [[Thorin and Company]] to [[Rivendell]]. During the journey Gandalf was instrumental several times in saving the travellers&#039;s lives from several calamities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf saved them from a trio of [[Stone-trolls]], and later obtained the legendary sword [[Glamdring]] from their [[Trolls|Troll]]-hoard; Gandalf bore it thenceforth.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Mutton&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{H|Mutton}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He also helped Thorin and Company through the [[Misty Mountains]]; when unknowingly they camped in the [[Front Porch]] of the [[Goblin-town]] the Goblins captured the whole company except Gandalf, who surprised them much later, killing the [[Great Goblin]] and then leading the Dwarves to the exit.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Hill&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{H|Hill}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; It was during this time that Bilbo obtained a &amp;quot;magic ring&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Riddles&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{H|Riddles}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Bilbo initially claimed he &amp;quot;won&amp;quot; it from the creature &amp;quot;[[Gollum]]&amp;quot; while the company was under the Misty Mountains.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Pan&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{H|Pan}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The ring conferred invisibility on Bilbo when he wore it, and he kept it secret from Gandalf for some time. &lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Darrell Sweet - The Lord of the Eagles.jpg|thumb|left|[[Darrell Sweet]] - &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Eagles&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
On their escape out, the Company was saved by the [[Eagles]] of the Misty Mountains; Gandalf once had healed the [[Great Eagle]] from a poisoned wound, and thenceforth they became friends. The Eagles picked them up to their eyrie, and the next day they dropped them to the other side of the Mountains.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Pan&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Angus McBride - Dol Guldur.jpg|thumb|[[Angus McBride]] - &#039;&#039;Dol Guldur&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf then saught the hospitality of [[Beorn]], persuading him to welcome and host the whole Company in his [[Beorn&#039;s Hall|hall]]. But then he left the quest prior to its completion; after leading the Company to the outskirts of the [[Forest Gate]], he gave them some final advice (but little did he know that the lands had changed by then) before they&#039;d enter [[Mirkwood]], and went to attend other obligations.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{H|Queer}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The [[White Council]] had met under the gravest of circumstances: Sauron&#039;s vast power was returning, even without his Ring. Gandalf at last convinced the Council to attack Dol Guldur, to which even Saruman agreed (as by now he feared Sauron as a rival, and wished to delay his search for the Ring). Gandalf joined his peers in assailing [[Dol Guldur]], ridding [[Mirkwood]] of the Necromancer&#039;s presence, who fled to [[Mordor]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;AppB2&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{App|B2}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; When he was about to finish his task, news about what happened to Thorin&#039;s Company in Mirkwood reached him, and realized that the instructions he gave did not help them; they had lost their way, and then vanished from the imprisonment of the [[Wood-elves]], who had captured them. He was anxious to get back to them as soon as possible.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{H|Welcome}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile Thorin&#039;s quest was successful: Erebor was retaken and Smaug was killed,&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Fire&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{H|Fire}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; but when Gandalf finally arrived to the area, he found the [[Dwarves of Erebor]] and [[Dwarves of the Iron Hills|the Iron Hills]] preparing for an attack by the [[Lake-men]] and the [[Elves of Mirkwood]]. He was with [[Bard]] and [[Thranduil]] and revealed his presence trying to reason with Thorin. When the attack was beginning, Gandalf halted them, to warn that the [[Orcs]] and [[Wargs]] were coming to claim the treasure. He invited [[Dáin Ironfoot]] for council, and soon Dwarves, Elves and Men formed an alliance, and defeated the [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains]] in the [[Battle of Five Armies]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Burst&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{H|Burst}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
King Thorin was mortally wounded and after his funeral and the reestablishment of Erebor under Dáin, Bilbo and Gandalf followed their way back; they celebrated [[Yule]] at Beorn&#039;s, and then returned to Rivendell, where he discussed with [[Elrond]] the events of Dol Guldur and the Lonely Mountain. Gandalf had accomplished his immediate goal, which was to destroy Smaug, who could have been used to disastrous effect by Sauron. A large number of Orcs and Wargs also were killed in the North, removing threats to Rivendell and Lothlórien.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Erebor&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; But they both agreed that it would be better if the Necromancer were banished from the world altogether.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;H19&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{H|19}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As Gandalf and Bilbo passed by the site of their former encounter with the stone-trolls, they made sure to recover the gold of the troll-hoard they had buried.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;H19&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf, for his part, found himself amazed by the hobbit; until then the wise had paid no attention to hobbits and knew little of them. For the rest of his sojourn in Middle-earth, Gandalf took a special interest in hobbits, and particularly in the Baggins family.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Return of the Shadow===&lt;br /&gt;
Despite the Council&#039;s hopes, Sauron was not weakened by this attack. He had foreseen the move that drove him from Mirkwood, and his retreat was but a feint.  Ten years after the attack, Sauron declared himself openly in Mordor in {{TA|2951|n}} and rebuilt the [[Barad-dûr]]. The White Council met for one last time in {{TA|2953|n}} to debate about the [[Rings of Power]]. Saruman quieted his peers claiming to have the knowledge that the One Ring was lost in the [[Belegaer]]. After their meeting, Saruman, jealous and afraid of Gandalf, set spies to watch all his movements; this would affect the peaceful Hobbits, as Saruman thus discovered the existence and noted Gandalf&#039;s interest in the Shire, and started sending agents in [[Bree]] and the [[Southfarthing]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ThirdAge&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile Sauron began reassembling his forces for the final blow against the hated West. [[Easterlings]] from [[Khand]] and beyond the [[Sea of Rhûn]], joined by men from [[Harad]] reinforced his stronghold in [[Mordor]]; Orcs, trolls, and other foul beasts were multiplying while his minions were searching the Anduin for any sign of his precious One Ring.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf met [[Aragorn]], the hidden [[Heir of Isildur]] in {{TA|2956|n}}, and soon became friends with him. From that point on Aragorn and Gandalf often worked together towards a common end - the defeat of Sauron.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Darrell Sweet - The Arrival of Gandalf.jpg|thumb|right|200px|[[Darrell Sweet]] - &#039;&#039;The Arrival of Gandalf&#039;&#039;]] &lt;br /&gt;
During this period Gandalf visited the Shire frequently, especially his friend Bilbo Baggins, and his younger cousin, [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]]. He noted Bilbo&#039;s unusual youthfulness, despite his advancing age; the suspicious &amp;quot;[[The One Ring|magic ring]]&amp;quot; that Bilbo had acquired during his adventure began to weigh on his mind. Gandalf recalled the deceit Bilbo used in originally claiming it for his own-- Bilbo had later admitted to stealing it from [[Gollum]]. Gandalf could see that Bilbo was now very preoccupied with the ring. Such un-hobbitlike behaviour aroused his suspicions. In {{TA|3001|n}} he organized for him the [[Bilbo&#039;s Farewell Party]], and before leaving the Shire, he convinced Bilbo to leave the Ring for Frodo. He then emphatically warned Frodo not to use it; Gandalf had begun to suspect that the &amp;quot;magic ring&amp;quot; was indeed a ring of power.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Keen now to find out more about Gollum, he sought Aragorn&#039;s help to capture him. With Gollum&#039;s tale, and the records in [[Minas Tirith]], he pieced together the missing history of the One Ring in {{TA|3017|n}}.  A great fear came over him when he learned that Gollum had been to the Barad-dûr.  Sauron had tortured Gollum and learned not only of the &amp;quot;magic ring&amp;quot;, but also the names &amp;quot;Shire&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Baggins&amp;quot;. Gandalf now returned in haste to the Shire, certain that Frodo&#039;s ring was not simply a ring of power: it was the One Ruling Ring of Sauron.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The War of the Ring===&lt;br /&gt;
====The Treachery of Saruman====&lt;br /&gt;
After Gandalf’s fears were confirmed, he returned to the Shire and advised Frodo to leave as soon as possible, promising to return before a farewell party for Bilbo in autumn of that year ({{TA|3018|n}}), and to escort him to Rivendell. Gandalf also told Frodo about the creature Gollum, to which Frodo exclaimed that he should have been killed. Gandalf speculated that perhaps Gollum would have a part to play before the end, and in any case, it was not for them to decide who should live and who should die. He then set out to seek the advice of Saruman, supposedly still the head of the order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hearing disturbing news from [[Radagast]], he went to [[the Prancing Pony]] at [[Bree]]. Believing that he would not be able to return to Frodo in time, he wrote [[Gandalf&#039;s letter|a letter]], urging him to move as soon as possible for Rivendell, and seek someone &amp;quot;Strider&amp;quot; whose real name is Aragorn, with a [[The Riddle of Strider|riddle]] to identify him; Gandalf would then try to catch up with them when available. He also instructed [[Barliman Butterbur]] to send the letter to [[Hobbiton]] and to expect a Mr. [[Baggins]] that will come under the name of &amp;quot;[[Mr. Underhill]]&amp;quot;. He left the inn, but Barliman would forget to send the letter.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{FR|Strider}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gandalf Escapes Upon Gwaihir.jpg|thumb|left|200px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - &#039;&#039;Gandalf Escapes Upon Gwaihir&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
Soon thereafter Gandalf arrived at Isengard. At their meeting, Saruman at last revealed his desire for the One Ring. He offered to his &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;old friend and helper&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; that they take the Ring for themselves and seize power from Sauron.  Gandalf rejected this with horror, and was imprisoned by Saruman on the pinnacle of [[Orthanc]]. [[Gwaihir]], chief of the Eagles, soon arrived and helped Gandalf escape. Gandalf knew he must return quickly to the Shire, as Frodo (and the ring) were in grave danger from both Sauron&#039;s Nazgûl and now Saruman&#039;s treacherous desire for the ring.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf hurriedly went to [[Rohan]], desiring to find a strong steed; there he obtained [[Shadowfax]] from King [[Théoden]], who later resented the gift. This lord of horses and Gandalf forged a special bond, and Gandalf made quick use of Shadowfax&#039;s incredible strength and endurance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf sped to the Shire. Fortunately, Frodo had already left the Shire without waiting for Gandalf, and was seeking the refuge of [[Rivendell]]. Upon arrival Gandalf learned that the Nazgûl, arrayed as [[Nazgûl|Black Riders]], had been searching the area.  Dismayed, he set out for Bree; Barliman apologised to Gandalf for forgetting to send the letter, worried that the hobbits had left with Strider, the suspicious [[Rangers of the North|Ranger]]. But for Gandalf this was a hope which far exceeded his expectations. After congratulating a puzzled Barliman, and blessing his beer, Gandalf then made for [[Weathertop]], a high point in the region, to observe the surrounding area. &lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Fire on Weathertop.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - &#039;&#039;Fire on Weathertop&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
There he was assaulted at night by the Nazgûl, but drove them off after a great battle of light and flame. These phenomena were seen by Aragorn and the hobbits from afar, without knowing it was Gandalf. Before leaving, he marked some stones with the [[cirth|certh]] G for them to find. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He then went directly to Rivendell, where he welcomed Glorfindel, Aragorn and the hobbits upon their arrival several days later, Frodo being sorely wounded but still in possession of the ring.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====The Fellowship of the Ring====&lt;br /&gt;
Elrond called a [[Council of Elrond|council]] after Frodo was healed to consider the momentous decision regarding the ring. By chance, representatives of most of the free peoples happened to be in Rivendell already for various reasons. Elrond and Gandalf advised that the Ring should be destroyed in the fires of [[Orodruin]], where it was made. Others dissented or objected, but eventually submitted to Gandalf&#039;s plan. Ultimately, Elrond appointed the Fellowship of the Ring as nine walkers, numerically set against Sauron&#039;s nine Nazgûl. The relatively small number reflected the realization by Elrond and the other council members that the quest of Mount Doom would not rely upon strength of arms, but on stealth and good fortune. Gandalf was chosen to lead the company, which included [[Aragorn]], [[Boromir]], [[Legolas]] the Elf, [[Gimli]] the Dwarf, and the hobbits Frodo Baggins, [[Samwise Gamgee]], [[Peregrin Took]], and [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several obstacles stood in the company&#039;s way. The vast [[Misty Mountains]] had to be crossed, for Gandalf was determined not to lead the company near [[Isengard]]. Gandalf decided to take a southern route to the [[Redhorn Pass]] and there to cross the [[Misty Mountains]] near [[Caradhras]], thereby traversing the mountain range and avoiding Isengard. When this attempt failed due to a terrible storm he then decided to take the Fellowship through the ruins of Moria, where the remains of the great Dwarf city of [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]] was now a labyrinth of tunnels under the mountains. Others in the company were loathe enter the maze, as it was now the lair of orcs and something known only as &amp;quot;Durin&#039;s Bane&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Ted Nasmith - At the Bridge.jpg|thumb|left|200px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - &#039;&#039;At the Bridge&#039;&#039;]]At the [[Doors of Durin]] on the west side of the mountains, Gandalf, after some delay, spoke the password and led the company into the dark. Having been in Moria on an earlier perilous errand, he was somewhat familiar with the underground passages. Eventually the party came to the [[Chamber of Mazarbul]], where Gandalf read the [[Book of Mazarbul|Book of Records]], which revealed the fate of [[Balin]], the leader of an ill-fated attempt to re-colonize Moria. Soon after, the party was attacked by orcs, and forced to flee the chamber. By then Gandalf was well aware of their location, and he led the party quickly towards the eastern exit.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately [[Durin&#039;s Bane]] caught up to the group at the [[Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]. Gandalf and Legolas immediately realized what it was: a [[Balrogs|Balrog]] of [[Morgoth]], a servant of the first dark lord. In a spectacular display of bravery Gandalf faced the demon and broke the bridge both stood upon, leaving the beast to fall into a seemingly bottomless chasm.  But the Balrog&#039;s whip lashed out, and grasped Gandalf by the knees, causing him to fall into the pit. While falling, Gandalf shouted &amp;quot;Fly, you fools&amp;quot; and vanished into the abyss.&amp;lt;ref name=bridge&amp;gt;{{FR|Bridge}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:John Howe - Zirak-zigil.jpg|thumb|right|200px|[[John Howe]] - &#039;&#039;Zirak-zigil&#039;&#039;]]Yet Gandalf did not die; he and the Balrog fought long in the bowels and deep places of Arda. Gandalf finally pursued the beast up the [[Endless Stair]] to the peak of [[Celebdil]], where he [[Battle of the Peak|fought the demon]] for two days and nights. The Balrog had burst into flame anew when it exited the stairs; ice, wind, and smoke swirled about them as they dueled. Gandalf used his last measure of strength to slay the Balrog, throwing him down the mountainside in ruin. Gandalf&#039;s spirit then left his body, having sacrificed himself to save the Fellowship.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====Gandalf the White====&lt;br /&gt;
But Gandalf&#039;s spirit did not depart Middle-earth forever at this time. As the only one of the five Istari to stay true to his errand, Olórin/Gandalf was sent back to mortal lands by [[Ilúvatar|Eru]], and he became Gandalf once again. Yet, as he was now the sole emissary of the Valar to Middle-earth, he was granted the power to &amp;quot;reveal&amp;quot; more of his inner [[Maiar]] strength. This naked power that lay within him was seldom used during the remainder of his time in Middle-earth, as his mission was essentially the same: to support and succor those who opposed Sauron. Nevertheless, when Gandalf&#039;s wrath was kindled his &amp;quot;unveiled&amp;quot; strength was such that few of Sauron&#039;s servants could withstand him.&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gandalf Returns.jpg|thumb|left|[[Ted Nasmith]] - &#039;&#039;Gandalf Returns&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
As he lay on the mountaintop, the great eagle [[Gwaihir]] came up and bore him to [[Lothlórien]], where he was clothed and replenished, and given a new staff by [[Galadriel]]. Gandalf soon learned that Frodo and Sam had left the Fellowship and were attempting the quest of Mount Doom alone. As Frodo was beyond his assistance now, Gandalf promptly went south to [[Fangorn Forest]], where he met the [[Three Hunters]]: [[Aragorn]], [[Legolas]], and [[Gimli]], and gave them messages from Galadriel.  Then he called forth [[Shadowfax]], and rode with them to [[Edoras]]. There he found that Saruman&#039;s spy [[Gríma|Gríma Wormtongue]] had deceived King [[Théoden]] into hopeless impotence. Gandalf quickly deposed Wormtongue and encouraged Théoden to ride west to war against [[Saruman]]. Gandalf by now was keenly aware that the great war to end the age was beginning; if Saruman conquered Rohan then Gondor would be alone with enemies on all sides.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At Gandalf&#039;s encouragement King Théoden went west to Helm&#039;s Deep where he was quickly besieged; Gandalf then searched for [[Erkenbrand]] and the forces of the [[Westfold]], which he later found and led to the Deep, thus breaking the siege. Meanwhile, the [[Ents]] (along with the hobbits Merry and Pippin) moved against Saruman and sent [[Huorns]] against the orcs, resulting in the utter ruin of the outer walls of [[Isengard]] and the complete annihilation of Saruman&#039;s orcs. After the battle, Gandalf went to [[Orthanc]] with Théoden, Aragorn, and a small group. There Saruman rejected Gandalf&#039;s offer of forgiveness with contempt. Gandalf then broke Saruman&#039;s staff and cast him from the Order and the Council. Gandalf imposed a strict watch on Isengard by the Ents and then advised King Théoden to ride to Gondor&#039;s defense as soon as possible. The wizard&#039;s mind had already turned to Gondor and the coming climactic battle in the east.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====The Siege of Minas Tirith====&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Donato Giancola - The White Rider.jpeg|thumb|right|200px|[[Donato Giancola]] - &#039;&#039;The White Rider&#039;&#039;]] As a &#039;reward&#039; for Pippin, who had foolishly gazed into a [[Palantíri|palantír]], Gandalf took the Hobbit with him to [[Minas Tirith]], the last bastion of the west. Soon after arriving, Gandalf confronted [[Denethor|Denethor II]], the [[Ruling Steward]], and learned that he was near despair over the death of his eldest son, [[Boromir]]. Pippin entered the Steward&#039;s service in payment of the debt that he and Merry owed, the death of Boromir. Ostensibly they were allies, but the Steward treated him with disrespect and suspicion. When [[Faramir]], the Steward&#039;s younger son, returned from [[Osgiliath]] and was attacked by Nazgûl, Gandalf upon Shadowfax drove them away by revealing the power within him; later Faramir told him that Frodo and Sam were still alive and headed towards Mordor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The city was soon besieged by a vast force from Mordor, led by the [[Witch-king]]. An ill-advised counter attack resulted in Faramir receiving a wound from a poisoned dart; he lay near death inside the Tower. Still, Gandalf encouraged the men of Minas Tirith to have hope, and dispelled the fear of the Ringwraiths by his very presence.  But Sauron&#039;s catapults hurled flaming bolts upon the city; soon the first circle of the city burned unchecked. Denethor now lost all heart as the city burned and his only remaining son hovered near death; he abandoned his leadership of the city. Gandalf then took it upon himself to direct the defense of the city.  When the gigantic ram [[Grond (battering ram)|Grond]] destroyed the ancient entrance to the city, Gandalf placed himself alone at the ruined gateway. The Witch-king then appeared in the midst of the blasted gate upon a black horse and threatened Gandalf with death; but Gandalf did not move — seated upon Shadowfax he defied the mightiest of Sauron&#039;s minions. However, the stand-off ended inconclusively, as the morning arrived along with the host of the Rohirrim. Hearing the horns of the Riders of Rohan, the Witch-king departed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But Gandalf did not pursue his foe, for Pippin brought him news that Denethor was about to commit suicide in the high tower, burning himself and his son Faramir on a pyre like the heathen Kings of old. Gandalf rushed to stop this madness and was able to save Faramir, but not Denethor, whose despair and grief had overcome his mind. Gandalf also learned how it was that Denethor&#039;s will had been broken: Denethor clutched a palantír in his hands as he burned.  Clearly Denethor had been using the stone&#039;s special properties for some time —  extending his vision far beyond those of mannish eyes, but also wrestling in thought with Sauron. And even though Sauron could not completely overwhelm Denethor&#039;s mind, his courage was daunted by knowledge of the vast might of Mordor. Thus the shadow entered into the capital of Gondor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nevertheless, and against all hope, the siege was broken. [[Éowyn]] of Rohan and the hobbit Merry defeated the Witch-king, whose last wail was heard by many as he was reduced to impotence. Soon after, Lord Aragorn arrived with a large valour of men from the southern fiefs upon a captured pirate fleet from Umbar. The forces of the men of the west then utterly defeated Sauron&#039;s attack against Minas Tirith, relieving the city and killing virtually all of the invaders. Gandalf&#039;s carefully laid plans and words of wisdom, along with acts of heroism not seen since the elder days, had defeated Sauron&#039;s first move.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====The Last Battle====&lt;br /&gt;
But the attack against Minas Tirith was only a part of Sauron&#039;s plan to devastate the west and make himself the ruler of Middle-earth. Other armies moved in the north against [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]] and the Kingdom of Thranduil, as well as against Lothlórien and other points along the [[Anduin]]. Still commanding vast armies of orcs and men, the Dark Lord soon would move against Gondor again; the remnants of the Edain and their allies had little hope against his almost limitless resources.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Minas Tirith, Gandalf was selected by Aragorn, Imrahil, and Éomer (the remaining lords of the west) to be their leader in the coming final battles. This would be the culmination of Gandalf&#039;s efforts in Middle-earth. Fully aware that the west would stand or fall on the outcome of Frodo&#039;s mission, he advised the lords to drive north to the Morannon, thereby drawing Sauron&#039;s eye away from Frodo&#039;s likely location. This plan surely would result in a catastrophic loss for the outnumbered army, but it gave Frodo a chance to achieve the quest of Mount Doom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Led by Gandalf and Aragorn, the army of the West crossed the Anduin and marched north, pausing occasionally to announce their coming and to dispatch small numbers of men to lesser tasks. Upon arriving at the Black Gate, the forces halted and prepared for battle. As they ordered their companies, the foul [[Mouth of Sauron]] rode forth to parley with them; he revealed Frodo&#039;s [[Mithril#The Mithril Coat|&#039;&#039;mithril&#039;&#039;-coat]] and Arnor-blade and implied that their owner was captured and tortured. The emissary of Sauron then proposed that the forces of the west surrender; Gandalf however was undaunted, and, seizing his friend&#039;s belongings, rejected Sauron&#039;s offer. In shock, the Mouth of Sauron turned back towards the Black Gate, which slowly opened to reveal a vast army of orcs and trolls advancing on the lords of the west. Sauron&#039;s trap was sprung.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yet Sauron himself became the victim of Gandalf&#039;s trap. Unbeknownst to all, Frodo and Sam had succeeded in scaling Mount Doom and even as the Battle of Morannon began Frodo stood at the Crack of Doom. But the power and lure of the ring finally overcame his will and he placed the ring upon his finger, claiming it as his own. Immediately the Nazgûl were summoned by their lord, as he in terror realized his blunder: his enemies intended to destroy his ring.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Ted Nasmith - The Shadow of Sauron.jpg|thumb|right|200px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - &#039;&#039;The Shadow of Sauron&#039;&#039;]]But Gandalf&#039;s foresight proved accurate again as the creature Gollum, who had been doggedly following the Ring-bearer, seized the ring from Frodo, and, while celebrating his reunion with &amp;quot;his precious,&amp;quot; unwittingly fell into the fires of Orodruin. The ring was unmade as the fiery mountain erupted. The tower of [[Barad-dûr]] and the [[Towers of the Teeth]] began to collapse, their foundations crumbling, the Ring-wraiths burned out like shooting stars, and Sauron was reduced to a mere shadow of malice, never to torment the world again.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With Sauron gone, his forces scattered like frightened insects; the Men of the West now set upon them with fury. Gandalf announced the success of the [[Ring-bearer]] and the end of Sauron; the quest had been fulfilled.  Seeing that victory was achieved, Gandalf then mounted on [[Gwaihir]] the Eagle for a third time, and set out to see if Frodo and Samwise had survived the tumults of [[Mount Doom]]. To his great relief, the two were found on the slopes of Orodruin, clinging to life amid the volcanic eruptions. The great quest was over.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===End of the Order===&lt;br /&gt;
In Minas Tirith, Gandalf and the remaining members of the Fellowship reunited. At the coronation of King [[Aragorn|Elessar]], Gandalf (at Aragorn’s request) set the crown upon the King’s head, and declared &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;Now come the days of the King, and may they be blessed while the thrones of the [[Valar]] endure!&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;. Thus Gandalf ushered in the new age of men.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the coronation and wedding of Aragorn to [[Arwen]], Gandalf left with the rest of the remaining Fellowship on the journey home. For Gandalf, it was his last long journey in Middle-earth. His errand to Arda had been fulfilled; Sauron had been defeated. He said farewell to his friends one by one until at last only the four Hobbits remained at his side. At the borders of the Shire he, too, turned away. He left the Hobbits to settle with the Shire, for the shattered pieces of evil still remaining in the world were no longer his concern, and went to talk to [[Tom Bombadil]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What Gandalf did during the next two years is unknown; it is possible that his &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;long talk&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; with Bombadil was just that. At any rate, on [[29 September]] {{TA|3021|n}}, he met [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] at [[Mithlond]], ready to take the [[White Ship]] over the [[Belegaer|sea]] to [[Aman]].  He wore [[Narya]] openly on his finger, and Shadowfax was beside him (perhaps even to take ship with him). His mission was over, and his homecoming after more than 2000 years was nigh. He bade farewell to [[Samwise Gamgee|Samwise]], [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]], and [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] (the latter two of which he had forewarned of the passage), then mounted the Grey Ship beside Frodo, Bilbo, Elrond, and Galadriel. The ship passed west upon the sea, and then took the hidden straight path to [[Valinor]]: Gandalf became Olórin once more. There, presumably, he dwells still in the gardens of [[Irmo]]. Olórin, the wisest of the Maiar and the sole Istar to remain true to his mission, had successfully kindled the hearts of the free people in Middle-earth to overcome the evil of their time. In a large way, it was his victory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Personality==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Roger Garland - Gandalf.jpg|left|thumb|The Grey Pilgrim relaxing]]&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf is often described in &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings]]&#039;&#039; as quick to anger, and equally quick to laugh.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Lorien&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{FR|Lorien}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
His deep wisdom clearly derived from the patience he learned in Valinor, just as his care for all creatures of good will must have come from his strong sense of pity for the weak. Both his patience and sense of pity were revealed again and again, extending even to the servants of his enemies.&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:J.R.R. Tolkien - G for Gandalf.png|thumb|Gandalf&#039;s signature, the [[cirth|rune]] &amp;quot;G&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Keen observers of Gandalf often detected a veiled power, usually revealed in his eyes, which appeared deep and wise. He was alternately affectionate and brusque; he often surprised others with his bluntness when time was of the essence.  Gandalf consistently upbraided foolish behavior, but also richly rewarded those who acted with good intentions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hobbits appealed to him more than to the other Wizards, and he went often to the Shire for respites from his errands. It may be that he was amused by their nature. It may also be because they were untouched by the great evils of the world, and were more in touch with nature than Men; perhaps their agrarian lifestyle appealed to Gandalf&#039;s innate spirit and reminded him of the gardens of Valinor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Appearance==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:John Howe - Gandalf the Grey 02.jpg|thumb|right|200px|[[John Howe]] - &#039;&#039;Gandalf the Grey&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first description of Gandalf is preserved in the initial pages of &#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039;, written in the early 1930s. Gandalf&#039;s fame is alluded to even before his physical description (&amp;quot;Tales and adventures sprouted up all over the place wherever he went, in the most extraordinary fashion&amp;quot;), while the protagonist&#039;s (&amp;quot;unsuspecting Bilbo&amp;quot;) impression is that of:&lt;br /&gt;
{{Blockquote|...an old man with a staff. He had a tall pointed blue hat, a long grey cloak, a silver scarf over which a white beard hung down below his waist, and immense black boots.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Party&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Later, [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] wrote: &lt;br /&gt;
{{Blockquote|...a figure strongly built and with broad shoulder, though shorter than the average of men and now stooped with age, leaning on a thick rough-cut staff as he trudged along... Gandalf&#039;s hat was wide-brimmed [...] with a pointed conical crown, and it was &#039;&#039;blue&#039;&#039;; he wore a long &#039;&#039;grey&#039;&#039; cloak, but this would not reach much below his knees. It was of an elven silver-grey hue, though tarnished by wear - as is evident from the general use of grey in [[The Lord of the Rings|the book]]... But his colours were always white, silver-grey, and blue - except for the boots he wore when walking in the wild...Gandalf even bent must have been at least 5 ft. 6... Which would make him a short man even in modern England, especially with the reduction of a bent back.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;MB&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although some of the Wise know his true nature, his &amp;quot;wizard-like&amp;quot; appearance causes many to mistake him for a simple conjurer. After his return his &amp;quot;signature colour&amp;quot; changes from grey to white, for he has been sent back to replace the corrupt Saruman as the chief of the Wizards. In the book he claims that in some ways he now &amp;quot;was Saruman&amp;quot;, or rather Saruman as he should have been.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Círdan]] the Shipwright seemed to have foreseen this, for he entrusted the care of [[Narya]], one of the [[Three Rings]] of the Elves to Gandalf rather than Saruman.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Powers and abilities==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Roger Thomasson - Gandalf the Grey.jpg|Roger Thomasson - &#039;&#039;Gandalf the Grey&#039;&#039;|thumb]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf demonstrated extensive knowledge of the land and an assortment of magical abilities from trivial to essential. For example he would use his powers for entertainment, by blowing glowing smoke rings that moved around a room at his direction, and [[Bilbo Baggins]] remembered him for his fantastic fireworks displays. He created blinding flashes and other pyrotechnics to distract the [[Orcs|goblins]] of the [[Misty Mountains]], aiding the dwarves in their escape from [[Goblin-town]]. On the eastern slopes, he turned pine cones into flaming projectiles that threw hot sparks and started fires that would not easily go out. He was also able to come and go from the presence of [[Thorin and Company]] without being noticed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He again displayed his proficiency with pyrotechnics at [[Bilbo&#039;s Farewell Party]]. When the Fellowship is attacked by [[Wargs]] in [[Eregion|Hollin]] Gandalf speaks words of power to inflame the trees on the hillock where the company had camped. He was also able to start fires under blizzard conditions, create light of varying intensity for the journey through [[Moria]], magically secure doors, and break the [[Bridge of Khazad-dûm]]. When angered or aroused for battle, he seemed to grow in height and assume a terrifying aspect. He fought the [[Durin&#039;s Bane|Balrog of Moria]] and killed his opponent, although he did not himself survive the battle.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sent back to [[Middle-earth]] as Gandalf the White, he possessed greater charisma and a limited degree of clairvoyance, although he was unable to peer into the land of [[Mordor]] to see the progress of Frodo and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]]. His power and authority had increased so that he could break [[Saruman]]&#039;s staff with a spoken command, showing his authority to throw the treacherous wizard out of the order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gandalf was the bearer of [[Narya]], , the Ring of Fire, and described himself as the &amp;quot;servant of the [[Secret Fire]]&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;wielder of the [[flame of Anor]]&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=bridge/&amp;gt; Most times Gandalf displayed his power, this had to do with fire. It is not known whether his possession of Narya had any merit to his abilities.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;FAQ of the Rings: [http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q3-Fireworks D6. &#039;&#039;Gandalf bore the Ring of Fire. Is that how he made his fireworks?&#039;&#039;]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Special equipment===&lt;br /&gt;
It is unknown whether Gandalf required his staff to exercise certain powers. At times it appeared to focus or extend his powers, such as when it emanated light.  Exactly how much it aided him in the use of magic is unknown, but [[Gríma|Gríma Wormtongue]] tried to forbid Gandalf from bringing it into [[Edoras]], clearly under the impression that without it Gandalf&#039;s power would be limited.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When he arrived in Middle-earth, Gandalf received the Elven ring [[Narya]] from [[Círdan]]. It is clear that Gandalf wore this ring from that time to the end of the Third Age but how he used its powers is not known.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In {{TA|2941}}, Gandalf acquired the Elven sword [[Glamdring]] from the treasure hoard of a band of trolls.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Mutton&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; He continued to wield this weapon throughout &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;, in particular during his fight with the [[Durin&#039;s Bane|Balrog]] in Moria.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Throughout his time in Middle-earth Gandalf often was seen with a pipe, the use of which clearly brought him immense enjoyment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Other versions of the legendarium==&lt;br /&gt;
In early manuscripts of &#039;&#039;[[The Hobbit]]&#039;&#039;, the name &#039;&#039;[[Bladorthin]]&#039;&#039; was used by Tolkien for the character who later would be named &#039;&#039;Gandalf&#039;&#039;. The name &#039;&#039;Gandalf&#039;&#039; was instead used for the character known as [[Thorin]] in the published works.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HH|Intro}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Inspiration==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Georg von Rosen - Oden som vandringsman, 1886 (Odin, the Wanderer).jpg|thumb|Georg von Rosen - &#039;&#039;Oden som vandringsman&#039;&#039; (&#039;&#039;Odin the Wanderer&#039;&#039;)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Josef Madlener - Der Berggeist.jpg|left|thumb|[[Josef Madlener]] - &#039;&#039;[[Der Berggeist]]&#039;&#039;]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Gandalfr&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;!-- this is the nominative, not a typo!--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
appears in the list of dwarves in the &#039;&#039;[[Völuspá]]&#039;&#039; of the Elder Edda, the name means &amp;quot;Cane-elf&amp;quot;. Tolkien took the name along with the other dwarves&#039; names when he wrote &#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; in the 1930s. He came to regret the creation of this &amp;quot;rabble of eddaic-named dwarves [...] invented in an idle hour&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{TI|Runes}}, p. 452&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; since it forced him to come up with an explanation of why Old Norse names should be used in [[Third Age]] Middle-earth. He solved the dilemma in 1942 by the explanation that [[Old Norse]] was a &#039;&#039;translation&#039;&#039; of the [[language of Dale]]. The figure of Gandalf has other influences from Germanic mythology, particularly Odin in his incarnation as &amp;quot;the Wanderer&amp;quot;, an old man with one eye, a long white beard, a wide brimmed hat, and a staff: Tolkien states that he thinks of Gandalf as an &#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Odinic wanderer&amp;quot;&#039;&#039; in a letter of 1946.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{L|107}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tolkien had a postcard labeled &#039;&#039;[[Der Berggeist]]&#039;&#039; (&amp;quot;the mountain spirit&amp;quot;), and on the paper cover in which he kept it, he wrote &amp;quot;the origin of Gandalf&amp;quot; at some point. The postcard reproduces a painting of a bearded figure, sitting on a rock under a pine tree in a mountainous setting. He wears a wide-brimmed round hat and a long cloak and a white fawn is nuzzling his upturned hands.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Humphrey Carpenter]] in his 1977 biography said that Tolkien had bought the postcard during his 1911 holiday in Switzerland. However, Manfred Zimmerman discovered that the painting was by German artist Josef Madlener and dates to the late 1920s.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[Manfred Zimmerman]], &amp;quot;The Origin of Gandalf and Josef Madlener&amp;quot;, in [[Mythlore|&#039;&#039;Mythlore&#039;&#039;]] [[Mythlore 34|34]] (Winter [[1983]])&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Carpenter concluded that Tolkien was probably mistaken about the origin of the postcard himself. Tolkien must have acquired the card at some time in the early 1930s, at a time when &#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; had already begun to take shape.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Names==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Main|Gandalf/Names}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Etymology==&lt;br /&gt;
Within the legendarium, &#039;&#039;Gandalf&#039;&#039; translates an unknown name of the meaning  &amp;quot;Elf-of-the-wand (or cane/staff)&amp;quot;, or more literary &amp;quot;Wand-elf&amp;quot;, in old northern Mannish. Most denizens of Middle-earth incorrectly assumed Gandalf was a [[Men|Man]], although he was really a Maia spirit (approximately equivalent to an angel). However, a less common misconception that occurred during the beginning of his career in Middle-earth was that for someone to be [[Immortality|immortal]] and use as much magic as he did, he must have been an Elf. Although it soon became apparent to all that he could not be an Elf, as he was old and Elves do not generally age, the nickname stuck with him. He later gave it as his name to others he met who did not know its original meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Portrayals in adaptations==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Gallery&lt;br /&gt;
|title=Gandalf in adaptations&lt;br /&gt;
|height=150&lt;br /&gt;
|width=200&lt;br /&gt;
|lines=3&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Hobbit (1966 film) - Gandalf.png|Gandalf in [[The Hobbit (1966 film)|&#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; (1966 film)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Hobbit (1977 film) - Gandalf.jpg|Gandalf in [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|&#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; (1977 film)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Gandalf.jpg|Gandalf the Grey in [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1978 film)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Gandalf the White.jpg|Gandalf the White in [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1978 film)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:WiME-gandalf+3-hobbits.png|Gandalf in &#039;&#039;[[J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s War in Middle Earth]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:LOTR-Gandalf 1990-1--1-.png|Gandalf in [[J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I (1990 video game)|&#039;&#039;J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I&#039;&#039; (1990 video game)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:LOTR vol. 1 SNES Gandalf in the Shire.png|Gandalf in [[J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I (SNES)|&#039;&#039;J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I&#039;&#039; (SNES)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:1121208-ror 010-1-.png|Gandalf in &#039;&#039;[[J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s Riders of Rohan]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring - Gandalf reading the Book of Mazarbul.jpg|Gandalf the Grey in &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Motion Picture Trilogy - Gandalf the White.jpg|Gandalf the White in &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:Gandalf viv lotr.JPG|Gandalf in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring&#039;&#039; (video game)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:Gandalf 2Towers.png|Gandalf in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers&#039;&#039; (video game)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Lord of the Rings- The Two Towers GBA - Gandalf, Frodo and Legolas.png|Gandalf in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)#Game Boy Advance version|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers&#039;&#039; (Game Boy Advance)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Hobbit (2003) Gandalf.JPG|Gandalf in &#039;&#039;[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|&#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; (2003 video game)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:Gandalf EA RotK.png|Gandalf in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King&#039;&#039; (video game)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Lord of the Rings- The Return of the King GBA - Gandalf.png|Gandalf in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King&#039;&#039; (Game Boy Advance)]]&lt;br /&gt;
|File:Gandalf in LOTRO.png|Gandalf in &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Lord of the Rings Online Shadows of Angmar - Gandalf.png|Gandalf the Grey in &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:Gandalf.jpg|Gandalf the White in &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Lord of the Rings- Conquest -Gandalf fighting Orcs.png|&#039;&#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:Aragorn&#039;s Quest - Gandalf the White.jpg|Gandalf the White in &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn&#039;s Quest]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:Gandalf in LOTR- War in the North-1.png|&#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:Lego - Gandalf the Grey mini figure.png|Gandalf the Grey as a &#039;&#039;[[Lego]] mini figure&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:Guardians of Middle-earth - Gandalf.png|Gandalf the Grey in &#039;&#039;[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|File:The Hobbit (film series) - Gandalf.jpg|Gandalf the Grey in [[The Hobbit (film series)|&#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; (film series)]]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
===Films===&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1966: [[The Hobbit (1966 film)|&#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; (1966 film)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf&#039;s role is drastically reduced. He lives in a tower, where Thorin, the [[Mika Milovana|princess]] and the guard meet him to discuss the killing of [[Smaug|Slag]]. He introduces them to Bilbo, but does not go on the quest.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Deitch&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{webcite|articleurl=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;amp;v=UBnVL1Y2src|articlename=The Hobbit.mp4|dated=5 January 2012|website=YouTube|accessed=10 January 2012}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1977: [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|&#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; (1977 film)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The voice of Gandalf was provided by [[John Huston]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1978 film)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf was voiced by [[William Squire]]. [[John A. Neris]] played him in the live-action filming used for rotoscoping.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Jerry Beck, &#039;&#039;The Animated Movie Guide&#039;&#039;, page 154 (at [http://books.google.com/books?id=fTI1yeZd-tkC&amp;amp;pg=PA154&amp;amp;dq=%22John+A.+Neris%22&amp;amp;hl=nl#PPA154,M1 GoogleBooks])&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1980: [[The Return of the King (1980 film)|&#039;&#039;The Return of the King&#039;&#039; (1980 film)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:[[John Huston]] reprised his role as Gandalf. In this adaptation, the tale is told by a minstrel of [[Gondor]], yet in the story, Gandalf serves as the narrator. Gandalf the White is portrayed without difference from Gandalf the Grey, in &#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1985: [[The Hobbit (1985 television film)|&#039;&#039;The Fairytale Adventures of Mr. Baggins, the Hobbit&#039;&#039; (1985 film)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039; &lt;br /&gt;
:Ivan Krasko played Gandalf.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2001: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Ian McKellen]] was cast as Gandalf. He was nominated for an Academy Award for his portrayal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2002: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Perhaps the most striking difference from all other adaptations is the difference between Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White. Where earlier no visible or audible difference was made, Gandalf the White is portrayed as much more virile, and with a shorter (and whiter) beard. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2003: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Because [[Imrahil]] had been cut from the film, it was up to Gandalf to lead the troops after the madness and death of [[Denethor]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|&#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; (film series)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Ian McKellen|Sir Ian McKellen]] reprised his role as Gandalf the Grey.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;PJCasting&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{webcite|author=[[Peter Jackson]]|articleurl=http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150168211921558|articlename=Production begins in New Zealand on The Hobbit|dated=20-March-2011|website=[http://www.facebook.com/ Facebook]|accessed=23-Dec-2011}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; A description of Gandalf in &#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; films was released by the studio: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:{{Blockquote|One of the most powerful Wizards in all Middle-earth, Gandalf the Grey joins the quest to reclaim the Dwarf Kingdom of Erebor and the great treasure that lies within its stone halls from a fire-breating dragon, Smaug the Terrible. Along the way, Gandalf finds evidence that an ancient evil may have found its way back into the world. In order to uncover the truth, Gandalf must leave his companions to fend for themselves – a journey that will take him into the darkest corners of Middle-earth where his worst suspicions are confirmed.|[[Warner Bros.]]&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;HobbitApp&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{webcite|author=[[Warner Bros.]]|articleurl=http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hobbit-movies/id545808528|articlename=Hobbit Movies|dated=7-September-2012|website=[http://itunes.apple.com/ Apple iPhone/iPad App]|accessed=19-September-2012}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Radio series===&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1955: [[The Lord of the Rings (1955 radio series)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1955 radio series)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The voice of Gandalf was provided by [[Norman Shelley]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{L|175}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1968: [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|&#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; (1968 radio series)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The voice of Gandalf was provided by [[Heron Carvic]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1979: [[The Hobbit (1979 radio series)|&#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; (1979 radio series)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The voice of Gandalf was provided [[Bernard Mayes]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1979: [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1979 radio series)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Bernard Mayes]] reprised his role as Gandalf.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039; (1981 radio series)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Michael Hordern]] read the part of Gandalf. He had not read the book, and thought his agent made a mistake in telling him how many episodes he had to do. He did not know Gandalf&#039;s early death would prove only temporarily.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[Brian Sibley]], &amp;quot;[http://briansibleytheworks.blogspot.com/2008/01/this-page-is-still-under-construction_23.html The Ring Goes Ever On: The Making of BBC Radio&#039;s &#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings&#039;&#039;]&amp;quot;, at &#039;&#039;[http://briansibleytheworks.blogspot.com/ Brian Sibley:The Works]&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Games===&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1982: [[The Hobbit (1982 video game)|&#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; (1982 video game)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf can be met on several moments of the game&#039;s story line.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.worldofspectrum.org/showmag.cgi?mag=ZXComputing/Issue8304/Pages/ZXComputing830400076.jpg &#039;&#039;ZX Computing&#039;&#039;, iss. 8304, p. 76] reproduced at [http://www.worldofspectrum.org/archive.html World of Spectrum - Archive] (retrieved at 14 August 2010)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1990: [[J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I (1990 video game)|&#039;&#039;J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I&#039;&#039; (1990 video game)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf can be &amp;quot;recruited&amp;quot; by [[Frodo Baggins]] as a playable character.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1990: &#039;&#039;[[J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s Riders of Rohan]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf is one of the main characters of the game and one of the several heroes of the [[Rohan]] faction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;1994: [[J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I (SNES)|&#039;&#039;J.R.R. Tolkien&#039;s The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I&#039;&#039; (SNES)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf can be acquired as a playable characters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring&#039;&#039; (video game)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Tom Kane]] provided the voice of Gandalf. He is a playable character in several levels, including the fight with [[Durin&#039;s Bane]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers&#039;&#039; (video game)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:The voice of Gandalf is provided by [[Ian McKellen]]. Gandalf the Grey appears at the campsite of the [[Fellowship of the Ring|fellowship]] in &#039;&#039;The Gates of Moria&#039;&#039; and during the fight of [[Balin&#039;s Tomb]] in &#039;&#039;Balin&#039;s Tomb&#039;&#039;. He latter reappears in the game as Gandalf the White at the start of the mission &#039;&#039;The Plains of Rohan&#039;&#039;, where he leaves Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli to search Éomer and his army. He also appears in some cutscenes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)#Game Boy Advance version|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers&#039;&#039; (Game Boy Advance)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:In the [[wikipedia:Game Boy Advance|Game Boy Advance version]] of [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)|The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]] Gandalf is a playable character. Gandalf&#039;s story starts with a conservation between Gandalf and [[Théoden]], after which the story goes back to the [[Caradhras]], where the Fellowship tries to travel over the  [[Misty Mountains]]. When that road fails, the Fellowship goes back and travels through [[Moria]]. In Moria Gandalf and the other member of the Fellowship are seperated. After finding [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]], [[Aragorn]] and [[Gimli]] the fellowship is attacked by a [[Cave-trolls|Cave-troll]] and [[|Orcs#Orcs and Goblins|Goblins]]. After Gandalf defeats the Cave-troll the Fellowship has to flee for the [[Balrogs|Balrog]]. When they reach the [[Bridge of Khazad-dûm]] a cutscene is shown, in which Gandalf destroys the bridge and falls with the Balrog in the depths. After the fall Gandalf has to follow the footsteps of the Balrog through the depths of Moria and the [[Endless Stair]] untill he reaches [[Durin&#039;s Tower]], where he has to defeat the Balrog.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:After being revived he returns as Gandalf the White in Fangorn, where he defeats several [[Trolls]] and [[Crebain]]. After defeating a stronger Forrest troll, named Fangorn troll, Gandalf meets Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli. After a cutscene, the game moves to [[Edoras]]. Gandalf heals the corrupted Théoden in Edoras, and then travels through [[Rohan]] in search of [[Éomer]]. Gandalf convinces Éomer to lead his army to [[Helm&#039;s Deep]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The game ends with the [[Battle of the Hornburg|Battle of Helm&#039;s Deep]], in which Gandalf and Éomer fight alongside Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and [[Éowyn]] while protecting the wall, the [[Hornburg]] and the [[Glittering Caves]]. In the final level Gandalf has to destroy the siege weapons that bombard the Hornburg. The game ends with a conservation between Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli and Théoden.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2003: [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|&#039;&#039;The Hobbit&#039;&#039; (2003 video game)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Jim Ward]] provided the voice of Gandalf. He is shown with actual [[magic]]: he can shoot blue bolts of lightning from his staff. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King&#039;&#039; (video game)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf is the narrator, and a playable character. The game is built around him; the cut scene narration shows how he planned for the [[War of the Ring]]. He has several missions, collectively called the &amp;quot;Path of the Wizard&amp;quot;. The first is the [[Battle of the Hornburg|the Battle of Helm&#039;s Deep]], which serves as a training mission. He has to fight [[Uruk-Hai]] in the forest of [[Huorns]] and [[Ents]] in &amp;quot;The Road to Isengard&amp;quot;. After that, the missions move to [[Minas Tirith]]: the first mission, &amp;quot;Top of the Wall&amp;quot;, has Gandalf warding off ladders and siege towers. In the second, &amp;quot;Courtyard&amp;quot;, he has to protect civilians from the invading Orcs. His last playing mission is the [[Battle of the Morannon|Battle of the Black Gate]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|&#039;&#039;The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King&#039;&#039; (Game Boy Advance)]]:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Just like on the consule version of the game, Gandalf is a playable characte. He has many missions, collectively called the &amp;quot;The Journey of the Wizard&amp;quot;. He starts in a flooded [[Isengard]], where he has to kill several [[Uruk-hai]] and [[Crebain]] before he confronts [[Saruman]]. After the defeat of Saruman he travels to [[Minas Tirith]] through Rohan and the Misty Mountains. At the [[Pelennor Fields]] Gandalf has to protect the [[Beacons of Gondor|beacons]], so Rohan can be warned. During the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields|Battle of Minas Tirith]] he has to protect the gate, before making his way to the [[House of the Stewards|Steward&#039;s Tomb]]. Here Gandalf has to kill Denethor, before he burns [[Faramir]]. After the battle Gandalf travels through [[Ithilien]] to the [[Black Gate]], where he confronts a Nazgûl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2004: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Third Age]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf, voiced by [[Ian McKellen]], is a character in [[Electronic Arts|EA&#039;s]] &amp;quot;alternative [[Fellowship of the Ring|fellowship]]&amp;quot; game. In his battle against Durin&#039;s Bane, he is aided by the main characters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2004: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf is voiced by [[Steven M. Kramer]], renowned for playing older mentor types.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2004: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:In non-storyline skirmishes Gandalf is the hero of the Gondor faction, who possesses several magical abilities. At first, he appears as Gandalf &amp;quot;the Grey&amp;quot;, and becomes &amp;quot;Gandalf the White&amp;quot; after reaching level 5 (out of 10). Gandalf also narrates the prologue scene, repeating almost word for word the lines said by Galadriel in the &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:His involvement in the storyline is notable for major differences from the original tale. First of all, Gandalf survives his encounter with Balrog, defeating him at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continues the journey with the Fellowship - by the time of arrival in Lothlorien he already appears as Gandalf the White. He is present during the ambush at [[Amon Hen]], where thanks to his involvement Boromir is saved from certain death. Merry and Pippin are captured regardless and Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and Boromir give chase, while Gandalf departs them to see to dealings in Rohan, including freeing of King Théoden from the spell. Following the Battle of Helm&#039;s Deep he travels to Minas Tirith along with both Pippin and Boromir, where they participate in the Siege of the city.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2006: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf is a hero for the &amp;quot;Men of the West&amp;quot; faction. Similar to the first game, he appears as Gandalf the Grey initially and Gandalf the White after level 5. He plays no part in the main storyline, but appears in the alternate &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot; campaign: after Sauron reclaims the Ring and lays waste to southern lands, Gandalf and few other survivors meet their end during a last stand in Rivendell. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2007: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf is a non-playable character voiced by [[Harry Chase]], who narrates cutscenes and instances throughout the original game, before the first expansion. He first meets the Dwarven characters in Ered Luin in {{TA|2941}}, shortly before the Quest for Erebor. Later, characters of all races meet him in Bree in October of {{TA|3018}}, but he is too busy with concerns for Frodo and the Ring and merely sends them away to find Radagast. Finally, the players have a chance to have a proper conversation with him in Rivendell, following the Council of Elrond. During that time, Gandalf is involved in several quests, including helping the player wreck havoc among the Goblins stirring at the [[High Pass]]. After the Fellowship leaves Rivendell, players are able to retrace many of their steps, including the marks left by Gandalf such as the Burnt Top in [[Eregion]] and the remains of his fire at the pass of [[Caradhras]]. Later, Lady [[Galadriel]] bids the player to find the sings of Gandalf following his fall from the Bridge of Khazad-dum - said signs include his burnt hat at the Foundations of Stone in Moria and the sings of his struggle with the Balrog at the [[Endless Stair]] - those allow Galadriel to discern that Mithrandir is not truly dead. Players later meet him as Gandalf the White in [[Caras Galadhon]] shortly after the Fellowship has departed Lothlorien. During that time, he engages into a spiritual battle with a Gaunt-Lord Gortheron the Doom-Caller; his display of his new abilities encourages the band of Free People players and allows them to defeat the servant of Sauron.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf is also present in several historic &amp;quot;session plays&amp;quot;, during which players witness the important events their characters were not present for. Such events include Gandalf infiltrating [[Dol Guldur]] with the help of an Elf named Raddir, first meeting between Gandalf and Aragorn on the outskirts of Lothlorien and Gandalf&#039;s imprisonment atop Orthanc by Saruman.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2009: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Martin Jarvis]] provides the voice of Gandalf. He is a playable mage hero and has three special powers: &amp;quot;Healing Wisdom&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;You Shall not Pass!&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Cleansing Fire&amp;quot;. In the good campaign he appears at the end of the Isengard mission, where he has to kill Saruman in [[Orthanc]]. In Moria he can be played to destroy the [[Balrog]] and in Minas Tirith he has to defend the gates of the second ring. He is also one of the four playable heroes in the last mission, [[The Battle of the Morannon|the battle of the Black Gate]]. He appears aswell in the end of the last mission, the Shire, of the evil campaign, in which he is killed by [[Sauron]].&lt;br /&gt;
:He is also playable in the Shire, Isengard, Minas Tirith and Moria with the &#039;&#039;Conquest&#039;&#039; Mode, in Isengard and Minas Tirith in the &#039;&#039;Team Deatmatch&#039;&#039; mode, the citadel of Minas Tirith in &#039;&#039;Capture the Ring&#039;&#039; mode, and at the Black Gate, Minas Morgul, Mout Doom and the Shire during &#039;&#039;Hero Team Deatmatch&#039;&#039; mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2011: &#039;&#039;[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf is voiced by [[Tom Kane]], who also narrates the introduction of the game. He tells that heroes like &amp;quot;[[Aragorn|Aragorn the King]]&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;[[Frodo Baggins|Frodo the Ringbearer]]&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;Gandalf the Wizard&#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot; are rightly honored, but that without a few heroes - [[Eradan (video game character)|Eradan]], [[Andriel]] and [[Farin (video game character)|Farin]] - the north of [[Middle-earth]] would have been lost.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]], &#039;&#039;Prologue&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
:He also appears in [[Rivendell]] later in the game. Players can interact with him and learn of various important events, yet the conversations do not unlock any side-quests and do not affect the main story in any way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;2012: &#039;&#039;[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]&#039;&#039;:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
:Gandalf is a mage-type &amp;quot;guardian&amp;quot; with four abilities: &#039;&#039;Narya&#039;s Power&#039;&#039;, &#039;&#039;Flame of Anor&#039;&#039;, &#039;&#039;Fireworks&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;Gandalf&#039;s Might&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.co.uk/guardians/gandalf|articlename=&#039;&#039;Guardians of Middle-earth&#039;&#039;: Gandalf|dated=|website=[http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.com/ &#039;&#039;Guardians of Middle-earth&#039;&#039; official website]|accessed=16 July 2012}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[:Category:Images of Gandalf|Images of Gandalf]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{References}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* {{HM|TT}}&lt;br /&gt;
* {{HM|RK}}&lt;br /&gt;
* {{L|156}}&lt;br /&gt;
* {{L|246}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{ainur}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{Thorin and Company}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{fellowship}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{seq-start}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{seq-head&lt;br /&gt;
| race=maiar&lt;br /&gt;
| house=[[Maiar]]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{seq&lt;br /&gt;
| prev=[[Círdan]]&lt;br /&gt;
| list=Bearer of [[Narya]]&lt;br /&gt;
| dates=c. {{TA|1000}} - after {{TA|3021|n}}&lt;br /&gt;
| nvac=None&lt;br /&gt;
| next=Presumably, still Gandalf&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{seq&lt;br /&gt;
| pvac=None&lt;br /&gt;
| prev=Position created&lt;br /&gt;
| list=Leader of the [[Fellowship of the Ring]]&lt;br /&gt;
| dates=[[25 December]] {{TA|3018}} - [[15 January]] {{TA|3019|n}}&lt;br /&gt;
| next=[[Aragorn|Aragorn II]]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{seq-end}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Maiar]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Masculine names]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Norse names]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Wizards]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Gandalf]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fa:گندالف]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:ainur:maiar:istari:gandalf]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Gandalf]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Great_Journey&amp;diff=270321</id>
		<title>Great Journey</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Great_Journey&amp;diff=270321"/>
		<updated>2015-06-11T00:51:03Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: corrected gram&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The &#039;&#039;&#039;Great Journey&#039;&#039;&#039;, or the &#039;&#039;&#039;Great March&#039;&#039;&#039; was the journey that the [[Elves]] known as the [[Eldar]] took from [[Cuiviénen]], the place of their [[Awakening of the Elves|awakening]], to [[Valinor]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the [[War for Sake of the Elves|War]] of the [[Valar]] against [[Morgoth|Melkor]] much of northern Middle-earth was broken, and then [[Oromë]] returned to take the Elves with him into the West. In {{YT|1105}} the majority of the Elves began to depart and were called Eldar, but a part remained behind, becoming known as the [[Avari]] (The &amp;quot;Refusers&amp;quot;), in the [[Sundering of the Elves]]. Even the Eldar however were reluctant, being used to the beauties of Middle-earth, and were urged by Oromë and their respective chieftains; the most eager were the [[Minyar]], followed by the [[Tatyar]], and the most reluctant were the [[Nelyar]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oromë guided the Eldar north of the [[Sea of Helcar]], passing under the smoke of the ruined [[Ered Engrin]]. Some Eldar fled in fear, and disappeared from history, perhaps merging back with the Avari. Later the host passed through a great forest (the [[Mirkwood|Greenwood]]), on the path where later was the [[Dwarf Road]], and then long waited at the shores of a Great River [[Anduin]] while Oromë sought a way to get them over the [[Misty Mountains|Hithaeglir]] mountains, which were much higher in those days.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By {{YT|1115}} Oromë returned, having found (or forged) the [[High Pass]] (where later was built [[Rivendell]]), most Eldar went on, but a group of the [[Teleri]] remained behind and went down the Anduin under their leader Dan (or [[Lenwë]]), becoming known as the [[Nandor]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The remaining Eldar passed north of the immense forests that covered all of [[Eriador]], along a route that would become later the [[Great West Road]] (that ran through [[Arnor]]). Finally in {{YT|1125}} the [[Minyar]] and [[Tatyar]] crossed the [[Ered Luin]] and reached [[Beleriand]], while the [[Lindar]] still lagged behind in Eriador. For this reason they became known as the [[Teleri]] (the &amp;quot;Last&amp;quot;).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|Captivity}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Teleri finally entered [[Beleriand]] in {{YT|1128}} but remained east of [[Gelion]]; in {{YT|1132}} the first two clans were ferried across [[Belegaer]] on [[Tol Eressëa]] by [[Ulmo]]. When Ulmo returned for them in {{YT|1150}}, the greater part of the Teleri finally crossed Belegaer under [[Olwe]]. But a part of the Teleri remained behind again, either because they were enamored by the shores, or because the [[Eglath]] were looking for their leader [[Elwe]], becoming the [[Sindar]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{S|Princes}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{references}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{elves}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[category:Events]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo:evenements:aa:grande marche]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Große Wanderung]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Suuri Matka]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_Dagorlad&amp;diff=270164</id>
		<title>Battle of Dagorlad</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_Dagorlad&amp;diff=270164"/>
		<updated>2015-06-08T01:46:45Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;WadCheber: Corrected spelling error&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{disambig-more|Battle of Dagorlad|[[Battle of Dagorlad (disambiguation)]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{battle&lt;br /&gt;
|image=&lt;br /&gt;
|name=Battle of Dagorlad&lt;br /&gt;
|conflict=[[War of the Last Alliance]]&lt;br /&gt;
|date={{SA|3434}}&lt;br /&gt;
|place=The plains of Dagorlad outside Mordor&lt;br /&gt;
|result=Decisive victory for the Allies&lt;br /&gt;
|side1=Men, Elves, and Dwarves&lt;br /&gt;
|side2=Orcs, Easterlings, Southrons, Trolls, and other creatures and servants of Sauron&lt;br /&gt;
|commanders1=&lt;br /&gt;
{{Gil-galad blazon}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Elendil]] &lt;br /&gt;
*[[Elrond]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Oropher]] †&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Amdír]] †&lt;br /&gt;
|commanders2= {{Sauron blazon}}&lt;br /&gt;
|forces1=Hundreds of thousands of Men, Elves, and Dwarves&lt;br /&gt;
|forces2=Hundreds of thousands of Orcs, Fallen Men, and other evil creatures&lt;br /&gt;
|casual1=Many thousands&lt;br /&gt;
|casual2=Vast numbers, more than the allies|&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{quote|It was a great battle. Tall Men with long swords, and terrible Elves, and Orcses shrieking. They fought on the plain for days and months at the Black Gates.|[[Gollum]]&amp;lt;ref name=Passage/&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
The &#039;&#039;&#039;Battle of Dagorlad&#039;&#039;&#039; occurred in the year {{SA|3434|n}} of the [[Second Age]]. It was fought between the army of the [[Last Alliance of Elves and Men|Last Alliance]] under [[Gil-galad]] and [[Elendil]] and an army of [[Orcs]] and other creatures loyal to [[Sauron]]. The battle took place on the great, treeless, open plain between the [[Dead Marshes]] and [[Cirith Gorgor]]. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Prelude==&lt;br /&gt;
{{main|War of the Last Alliance}}&lt;br /&gt;
The united host of Elves and Men crossed the [[Misty Mountains]] and marched south through the vale of [[Anduin]], where they were joined by the [[Silvan Elves]] led by [[Amdír]]&amp;lt;ref group=note&amp;gt;In the text in the [[Unfinished Tales]] Amdír is named [[Malgalad]] for an unknown reason.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and [[Oropher]],&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Silvan Princes&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{UT|6b}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; with a host from [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Rings&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{S|Rings}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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The Alliance entered the vast plain near the [[Black Gate]], where they were joined by Anárion&#039;s forces from the south, and confronted at last the black legions of Mordor.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Silvan Elves had little sympathy for the [[Sindar]] and [[Noldor]] that were led by Gil-galad. As a result they were indisposed to place themselves under the supreme command of the [[High King of the Noldor]]. &lt;br /&gt;
==The Battle==&lt;br /&gt;
During preliminary skirmishing, the Silvan Elves defying Gil-galad&#039;s command, rashly charged against the numerous host of Mordor, before the King had given the order. The Silvans were valiant and doughty, but ill-equipped compared to their nobler kin. [[Oropher]] perished in the first onslaught while [[Amdír]] and his troops were cut off and driven into the marshes where half of his host perished.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Silvan Princes&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; This area became known afterwards as the [[Dead Marshes]], because of the thousands of bodies buried there.&lt;br /&gt;
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This battle raged for months.&amp;lt;ref name=Passage&amp;gt;{{TT|IV2}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; No account is given about the course of events during those months; it is possible that it consisted of a siege of the [[Black Gate]] and skirmishes against sorties by the Orcs and [[Men of Darkness]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{HM|Guide}}, entry &amp;quot;Battle of Dagorlad&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Elendil and Gil-galad were invincible and gained the upper hand. Thus Elves and Númenóreans finally pushed the enemy hordes back towards the [[Black Gate]] and broke through [[Cirith Gorgor]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Rings&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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==Aftermath==&lt;br /&gt;
A great part of Sauron&#039;s soldiers was slain in this battle. The Alliance was able to enter Mordor, establish a camp upon the [[Plateau of Gorgoroth]] and lay the [[Siege of Barad-dûr]] itself. Nevertheless Sauron still had enough supplies to defend the fortress for seven more years, until the siege was so pressing that he himself came forth, which led to the battle on the slopes of Orodruin in which Sauron was defeated and [[the One Ring]] taken from him.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Rings&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Oropher&#039;s son [[Thranduil]] survived the war and established his reign over the Silvan Elves in the [[Woodland Realm]].&lt;br /&gt;
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The slain were buried and their graves eventually were engulfed by the [[Dead Marshes]].&amp;lt;ref name=Passage/&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
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In the [[Third Age]], the Dagorlad was the site of several battles between [[Gondor]] and various [[Easterlings|Easterling]] armies, and the climatic [[Battle of the Morannon]]. &lt;br /&gt;
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{{references|notes}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conflicts of the Second Age]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Schlacht auf der Dagorlad]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:encyclo:evenements:2a:guerres:bataille_de_dagorlad]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fi:Dagorladin taistelu]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>WadCheber</name></author>
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