Tolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-18T14:41:28Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014}}
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''⇒ Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table>

== Hans-Ulrich Möhring ==

Hey Mith! I saw, that you deleted the article about the German translator Hans-Ulrich Möhring (''The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún'') with the comment ''"Just not notable enough"''. Möhring was now responsible for the German translation of another posthum released work. ''The Fall of Arthur'' will be published under the title ''König Arthurs Untergang'' on 21 March, 2015 in Germany, translated by Hans-Ulrich Möhring. I think, that two translations of complex lyrics by J.R.R. Tolkien are enough to legitimate the existence of an article about him. What do you think? --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

:For me, no (although others might take a different view). We have a painful habit on TG of creating articles about individuals which are essentially one line: "X is a Y who worked on Z." Is there anything (verifiable) to say about Möhring as translator of ''Sigurd and Gudrún'' and ''The Fall of Arthur'' beyond the fact that he translated them? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:14, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

::I see what you mean. To write something about his translation work on ''The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún'' (in my opinion) would make no sense in an English Wiki, so the only mentionable point would be the fact, that Möhring corresponded with Tom Shippey while translating. If you think, that the article is of no importance for Tolkien Gateway, then it's ok. I just wanted to know the reasons. --[[User:Sigismond|Sigismond]] 09:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

:::If he'd corresponded with Tolkien himself then that would put him in a different category, in my view. My fear is having an article that essentially doesn't really tell the reader anything. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

== Page merging question ==

Hey Mith, I went ahead and tackled merging [[Sea-elves]] into [[Teleri]]. I wasn't sure if my method of merging the pages was right: I copied the wiki-edit text to the other page and edited it some, then marked the original page for deletion. I changed the links that lead to Sea-elves to [[Falmari]] or Teleri where needed. I wasn't sure if this was good or if I needed to do anything else/something different. [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 19:39, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

:Hi xsys, and welcome to Tolkien Gateway! To merge a page we transfer the appropriate content and turn the page into a redirect (i.e. we don't mark it for deletion) - the reason for this is so people who search for "Sea-elves" will be taken to the Teleri page, for example. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

::That makes sense. Thanks! [[User:Xsys|xsys]] 20:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

==Images==

Good evening. This is [[User talk:2.84.120.176|User2.84.120.176]]. Could you upload upload more images on the page [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]];I dont have this ability, but you do have this ability. Upload and put these NEW images on the Category:Images from The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies.OK; {{unsignedanon|2.84.120.176}}

:Thanks for getting in touch. Remembering that the DVD of ''The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies'' isn't out yet (and therefore screencaps aren't so easy to obtain), do you have any particular images in mind? Or, perhaps you could [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&type=signup sign up to Tolkien Gateway] and upload them yourself? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

==Reminding==

Hi Mith, I wonder if you could please check your email? I've sent you a request a week ago :) [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 10:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

:I have received the email but I passed it onto [[User:Hyarion]] to respond. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot. Anyway, I hope that he could reply to us soon, since, as it seems, he does not appear frequently. So here I put this forward again, mean not in the slightest to bother you. We are eager to make contact with Alan Lee, so I would be appreciated if you could give me the email address of him. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 16:44, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

:::I generally don't give out other people's email addresses without their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

:::I must apologize for my rudeness and discourtesy. [[User:Leopold Break|Leopold Break]] 23:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

== Quick Question ==

How do you create separate pages on a page that you are creating? {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}

:I don't understand what you mean. Create a separate page on a page you are creating? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 21:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

::Sort of, you know on a user page how you can create the different subtitles for your pages. I am wondering how to do that. {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}

:::The same as you would create any other page: simply type the pagename as a URL and then press "create an article with that title". --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

::::Oh, thanks {{unsigned|AragornElessar}}

==Mithrellas==

May I ask why have you deleted the infobox? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 09:49, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:You're going to need to be more specific: what infobox have I deleted? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::My mistake. I have just realized you reverted the edits to the period where there was no infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:43, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::If you're going to insist on making three, four, five, six - and one occasion, nine! - consecutive edits, things like this will happen. Apologies for reverting the infobox as well but please can you try to learn to use the "Show preview" button and plan you edits. Nine small edits to an article are not necessary. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:59, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::I take it back. Your record is actually 10 edits in a row ([[Tréowine]]). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::::I know how to use the "Show preview" very well...But like I said, it often happens that I forget to include something in an article and have to edit it again. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::::You forget nine times in a row? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::::::Maybe "forget" is a wrong word (although not completely). "Change my mind" would be a more appropriate word. Besides, you are editing for years and I, myself, only for a couple of days. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::::::Indeed. I think we're all aware of that! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

==Copyright for images==

Please, how can I get the copyright for an image that I want to upload, but that isn't already in the "Category:Evidence of permission granted by copyright holders" section? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:You will need to contact the copyright-holder and ask for their permission. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::By e-mail solely? Because I have already contacted a number of artists and they all gave permission. Technicality is my main issue in this matter. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

:::There needs to be some evidence in case it's ever challenged. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 16:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

::::Here's one: http://www.deviantart.com/messages/notes/#1_0/1281622023 [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 18:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

==Obituary title==

''Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923'' is the official title of the obituary published in [[Bulletin of the Modern Humanities Research Association 20]] . All references I consulted used this title.So I think the article it should remain with that name. {{unsigned|Sigurd}}

:Absolutely not. Aside from the fact I don't think we need an article for an obituary written for someone on whom we have [[Henry Bradley|a very short article]] (we'd end up with a longer article on the obituary than on the man himself!), naming the article "''Henry Bradley: 3 Dec., 1845-23 May, 1923''" would be ridiculous verbose and unwieldy. If an article must be made it should be something like "Obituary for Henry Bradley", but I would be against its creation. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:31, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

::I dont think ridiculous since Tolkien himself give the name to the article. Someone put the same name in reference of that Bulletin 1923 here:[[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien Index:Writings_by_J.R.R._Tolkien]].And other books I read use the same name.In addition, the obituary contains a poem written by Tolkien in Old English. And also this obituary has his own topic on [[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]([[User:Sigurd|Sigurd]] 21:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC))

:::Did Tolkien give the title, or was that the editor? In any case, it is a title of a printed obituary, not an online webpage. Any article title we choose would also be the URL. We aren't the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia and our usage should not - and does not - reflect what they have done. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

==Ninni-V==
Can you please rename the pictures of Ninni-V to Antonio Vinci. By the request of the artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:Can you please email me where the artists have granted their permission for their work to be hosted on Tolkien Gateway? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:06, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

::I have asked the permission via note on DeviantArt. What would you like me to do? You cannot access the notes considering they are private and cannot be read unless one is logged in. So....??? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:::{{blockquote|Also, as a bit of housekeeping, can you forward to me either a copy of the emails from the artists '''or a screenprint''' so we have a bit of a proof - my email is {{nospam|mith|tolkiengateway.net}}. Cheers --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC) Yes, I will. But just one reminder: all the images by '''VunastiMamut''' are mine. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)|[[User talk:Woolly Mammoth]]}}

:::--{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

::::I have send you an email with a screen print for the said artist. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::Thanks. What about the others? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::I will. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 15:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::I have. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 16:57, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

==Vandalism==

Mith, we have a problem. There is this random guy going by the name of Webbane who is destroying stuff right now! [[User:Bane|Bane]]

:He has deleted off my page, yours, Woolly's, the Forum and a load of paragraphs from articles. Can we remove his account or something??? {{unsigned|Arya}}

::It's all been dealt with now. Isn't it interesting how a User:Bane and a User:Webbane pop up on the same night! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

==Why are you deleting MY images??==
Those images that you have deleted are my artwork! Is this vandalism or what???? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:I thought you said that they were all by other people - apologies. Although your picture of Uldor is [http://qnwn.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=116&Itemid=110&page=2 remarkably similar to one by James Adams] (also known as Sporeboy)? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::Maybe because I borrowed the pictures from some of (with permission, which I have sent you by email) those guys, aye? Some of the pictures are by other people, AND some of them are mine (namely Elmo, Bór, Uldor, Formenos!). You are behaving like an asshole and you have no right (beside being an administrator), absolutely no right to delete those images!

:::Do not speak to me like that again. As an administrator I have every right to delete any image on this website whether it be yours or anyone else's.

:::So, your image of Uldor. Did you "borrow" the one from Sporeboy? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 14:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::I will speak as I want to! And, considering your image of Uldor I granted the permission to use my artwork. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 14:41, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-18T14:32:33Z

Woolly Mammoth:

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-18T14:18:19Z

Woolly Mammoth:

User talk:Mith/2015

2015-06-18T14:17:51Z

Woolly Mammoth:

Formenos

2015-06-18T14:15:18Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{location
| image=[[File:VunastiMamut - Formenos.jpg|250px]]
| name=Formenos
| type=Fortress
| location=northern [[Aman]]
| inhabitants=[[Noldor]]
| realms=[[Valinor]]
| description=
| othernames=
| etymology=
| events=murder of [[Finwë]], theft of the [[Silmarils]]
| references=[[The Silmarillion]]
}}
{{Pronounce|Formenos.mp3|Ardamir}}
'''Formenos''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. [[Noldorin|N]] {{IPA|[ˈformenos]}}, [[Vanyarin|V]] {{IPA|[ˈɸormenos]}}; [[Years of the Trees]] 1490<ref>{{MR|P2j}}, §99</ref> – 1495,<ref>{{MR|P2m}}, §122</ref> inhabited for approx. 50 years) was the stronghold of [[Fëanor]] and his [[Sons of Fëanor|sons]] in the north of [[Valinor]], built after his banishment from [[Tirion]]. A great number of the [[Noldor]], including their king [[Finwë]], went with Fëanor into exile.<ref>{{S|Unrest}}</ref>

Fëanor's treasury was in Formenos, and [[Morgoth|Melkor]] came to the stronghold searching for the [[Silmarils]]. Here he slew Finwë before stealing the jewels and escaping to [[Middle-earth]].<ref>{{S|Flight}}</ref>

== Etymology ==
Formenos means "Northern Fortress" in [[Quenya]] (from ''[[formen]]'' = "north" and ''[[osto]]'' = "fortress"). Its [[Sindarin]] cognate is ''[[Fornost]]'', the name of a different city.

==See also==
*[[:Category:Images of Formenos|Images of Formenos]]

{{References}}

[[Category:Fortresses]]
[[Category:Valinor]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[Category:Quenya locations]]

[[de:Formenos]]
[[fi:Formenos]]

Formenos

2015-06-18T14:11:56Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{location
| image=[[VunastiMamut - Formenos.jpg|250px]]
| name=Formenos
| type=Fortress
| location=northern [[Aman]]
| inhabitants=[[Noldor]]
| realms=[[Valinor]]
| description=
| othernames=
| etymology=
| events=murder of [[Finwë]], theft of the [[Silmarils]]
| references=[[The Silmarillion]]
}}
{{Pronounce|Formenos.mp3|Ardamir}}
'''Formenos''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. [[Noldorin|N]] {{IPA|[ˈformenos]}}, [[Vanyarin|V]] {{IPA|[ˈɸormenos]}}; [[Years of the Trees]] 1490<ref>{{MR|P2j}}, §99</ref> – 1495,<ref>{{MR|P2m}}, §122</ref> inhabited for approx. 50 years) was the stronghold of [[Fëanor]] and his [[Sons of Fëanor|sons]] in the north of [[Valinor]], built after his banishment from [[Tirion]]. A great number of the [[Noldor]], including their king [[Finwë]], went with Fëanor into exile.<ref>{{S|Unrest}}</ref>

Fëanor's treasury was in Formenos, and [[Morgoth|Melkor]] came to the stronghold searching for the [[Silmarils]]. Here he slew Finwë before stealing the jewels and escaping to [[Middle-earth]].<ref>{{S|Flight}}</ref>

== Etymology ==
Formenos means "Northern Fortress" in [[Quenya]] (from ''[[formen]]'' = "north" and ''[[osto]]'' = "fortress"). Its [[Sindarin]] cognate is ''[[Fornost]]'', the name of a different city.

==See also==
*[[:Category:Images of Formenos|Images of Formenos]]

{{References}}

[[Category:Fortresses]]
[[Category:Valinor]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[Category:Quenya locations]]

[[de:Formenos]]
[[fi:Formenos]]

Formenos

2015-06-18T14:07:27Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{location
| image=[[Woolly Mammoth - Formenos.jpg|250px]]
| name=Formenos
| type=Fortress
| location=northern [[Aman]]
| inhabitants=[[Noldor]]
| realms=[[Valinor]]
| description=
| othernames=
| etymology=
| events=murder of [[Finwë]], theft of the [[Silmarils]]
| references=[[The Silmarillion]]
}}
{{Pronounce|Formenos.mp3|Ardamir}}
'''Formenos''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. [[Noldorin|N]] {{IPA|[ˈformenos]}}, [[Vanyarin|V]] {{IPA|[ˈɸormenos]}}; [[Years of the Trees]] 1490<ref>{{MR|P2j}}, §99</ref> – 1495,<ref>{{MR|P2m}}, §122</ref> inhabited for approx. 50 years) was the stronghold of [[Fëanor]] and his [[Sons of Fëanor|sons]] in the north of [[Valinor]], built after his banishment from [[Tirion]]. A great number of the [[Noldor]], including their king [[Finwë]], went with Fëanor into exile.<ref>{{S|Unrest}}</ref>

Fëanor's treasury was in Formenos, and [[Morgoth|Melkor]] came to the stronghold searching for the [[Silmarils]]. Here he slew Finwë before stealing the jewels and escaping to [[Middle-earth]].<ref>{{S|Flight}}</ref>

== Etymology ==
Formenos means "Northern Fortress" in [[Quenya]] (from ''[[formen]]'' = "north" and ''[[osto]]'' = "fortress"). Its [[Sindarin]] cognate is ''[[Fornost]]'', the name of a different city.

==See also==
*[[:Category:Images of Formenos|Images of Formenos]]

{{References}}

[[Category:Fortresses]]
[[Category:Valinor]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[Category:Quenya locations]]

[[de:Formenos]]
[[fi:Formenos]]

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T13:40:33Z

Woolly Mammoth:

This is yours, is it? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:10, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:Yes it is. {{unsigned|Woolly Mammoth}}

::Thanks. How would you explain the fact [https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZis-7MA4ADNO6C9-FQWz0bdHVaWEtxUG_1qAB9K8rFviFmOi0K2XwpmoBx7f7lIYyZqYboDNzHalbBm8lvdf4F2QkLKMI8_1CPhfqt0yOY6SNYtsgJRYGA6OmDpVJGAYqxeRVN6rjd6bBi7oGTmbE-qk3_1-C6ex2r0yKh-LWWKDN37dzm8V1RziU8ArjYItdWTzgTVffuy0H4opO6jwUVy4-6Ef0kVyFRAVH86-XBF8kCtfD-3G0a959bCbxLQnDqrOCXdk51GXnaTPX1vOxNnUoM8s2gzc0m5ABOQGJt6f4PQBwB1IooUrSi8dHIWdPRzF-oPrmu4G8poa3bWK_1ZyXfGnmWazjiYSs4-sHS-OQZHNSLuCD8jnL81lFRws7i9GE-g7BDX_1n9Tqlkw_1FloGDWbnJEPAaNjAodQng7ecD8Wex9E8d0dZRU3js3WgU-g6G7oiq3U7Rw73Q6KZd_1mFUHXhuoNQvRspIPtz_1ifVFKsMvDEoEveos4upubENPKtfm_1bC7rcbsZkoX6YgnjZjdR84iNmadrB2VbFOVQI0-tezJhcVjYGq1eVnGs2Fdlk3eT2e4eO1R8_1wm65drAR77UX--nw3RS0wxulswVWyl393jIjkDCD8t83kqlQ4R-2kD0Hbx4YFLBXGMOnJLGIidSQTsBVXqIg033wRcAVOg_1m8GiIT2La_19fYJK83Bv4EgmSGafbX6WyMWw_15Xu92Vudrjt6U7-Shi_1HeIN6OjBWsqbsXUuRiju8bqwG9grCb98JRqY0L7N5OfRGiAlqF36qNjv4pIjEYRaZGcUAPm_11jHM9SqowZJOr7aICLqR3A9KXr_1gWmt5Juc257WrZMEZe7bm5iKEnJk4cZMIE_1bQP4JPXI-7ifQqPfdhHP-EQ-FJ1n8Lsf0YyXzHqQITX2q2TKrSAgp7lja7ePfrmSBY3TCrbDkF5Zxe6_1uK4mK8TWcHbBGwhwwXb2g1_1gX0KWjvlwCRuWx-Gr723GqCCwm1T8mhH5MXY7QTtQtnir9Qcl02XPzITxj5_1l-SCn-iqo7DZ1TKdpWgXSgZcJ3ANRwo8e7NPVmG10Y6Zin2lhoupnlAl6GW3RleHjlczxB9EZfVDC3LRtq8GbvbmknnyuSXdq8aPojFexco1bLbByPOODbTNP8Zrgx-6OhGKBYkBAYUpDZQKBtcuLbWLGUr908OJprYdwyrIgq1Pki4qLa-Na09Kcs5AjA95XDyOR_1fAIzQANyutR9xZ6uDPXZePtzfKfvYH2h49cxxCUbcnPpBIm5SW_1wS9cNwkX-yUzxYGu11_1dgBRp6JDUjtCG459RIGwHVEJ69sPKNCkhwX80_1SpUZDR4K8xXZ41o_1cwApHMKy54OpVgpSpsKDvY6Br7VxEa2iaDEpPXn3U4zSRiD9bs2QYh7gMpo0UvbVpqo0Ddr3bKJmzVauXJ-PwpmeiwX_1IgYEh63B2v4WFez7k6rTeDW_136VAAqyJ65Ct-oV89_1SgSLzqgDrR3R2RC56nr5Nnob392uRYWE4wa-u8E6ZpZCVtsCQoVygM1sCjV2LVr8pGgn8U8aHfxTo2PsqbaNhYTB9bGPoWCNIkx7_11Vj25-wXA27Pxu7YXNQVF9u84hmSpwcqKjsyVSlPNARRvuIoQ1Ncawe7p_19I1pGLOyUEVLeTQgv12kD_1E&btnG=Search%20by%20image I found many matching examples of this image] online? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:30, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::Because I used this image as an inspiration for what I'm about to do. Besides, I was drunk. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 11:39, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::So you now admit that you've infringed someone else's copyright - again? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:40, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::Copyright of whom? This is just a photo that I'm about to edit. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 11:43, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::The Internet is not some free-for-all where you can just take whatever you want without attribution; unless explicitly released with a licence allowing you to share/amend then you are infringing someone else's copyright. You can't edit images on Tolkien Gateway so why have you uploaded it?
::::::You can regard this as "Strike Two". Twice I have caught you uploading copyrighted images; both times you denied it until I provided proof. Tomorrow I will go through and check every single one of your images. Between now and then I suggest you confess to any other images you have taken from elsewhere without permission and "edited"; should I find any image that I believe infringes copyright then I will take further action. Is that clear? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:51, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::Here you go! Are you happy? {{unsigned|Woolly Mammoth}}

::::::::No - do you understand what I've just said? Wrecking someone else's image by flipping it and fiddling with the hue/saturation/contrast doesn't suddenly make it yours. This is copyright theft; this image will be deleted. What I now need is for you to recognise that this is unacceptable, and for you to take appropriate action against any other images you have uploaded which are also stolen from someone else. You and I both know you have uploaded images where you have done the same thing (stolen the image, fiddled with the contrast a bit, and claimed it as your own); you need to mark those images for deletion now. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:01, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::What images are you talking about? {{unsigned|Woolly Mammoth}}

::::::::::Do you understand what I have said? Yes or No? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:06, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::What images, in particular, are you talking about? "VunastiMamut" is a croatized version of "Woolly Mammoth"! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::I know that... I said "''You and I both know you have uploaded images where you have done the same thing (stolen the image, fiddled with the contrast a bit, '''and claimed it as your own''')''". Do you struggle with the sentence, "''Do you understand what I have said? Yes or No?''"? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:11, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::My images are MY OWN. You have no right, administrator or not, to act like an overlord! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:14, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Look, you seem to be struggling to understand this concept. Taking someone else's images and change them a bit do not make them yours. They are NOT your images. This is copyright infringement and will not be tolerated here. Twice now I have caught you doing this. I suspect if I went through all of your images I would find others in the same category. You need to mark those images for deletion now. Do you understand? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Try it! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:21, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::And, I was wondering how did you came to the conclusion that my art is stolen? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:23, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::OK. You are deliberately refusing to answer me. If I find a single image you have stolen and amended - in the same way as this Estolad one - I will consider deleting all your images and banning you from Tolkien Gateway. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:24, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::OK. You wan't to ban a user who did much to make site tolerable because of some damn picture? Go ahead! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:28, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::I note your continued failure to engage with the issue at hand. I don't want to ban you, but your failure to co-operate may force me to do so; if you point confess now which images are other people's then I definitely won't ban you. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:31, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::Like I said before...Tuor, Maeglin, Duilin, Galdor, Penlod, Rog...are NOT mine! All the others ARE mine...including Estolad. And I'm sorry for, sincerely, being drunk at the time. But still, considering Estolad, it's a landscape that I wish to edit to conform the standards of TG (which I did already). And yes, I'm not really into landscapes, though you were buffets for not accepting an edited image as an image in the, for example, infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:40, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::NO! Estolad is ''not'' yours - why won't you understand this? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::::NOOOOOOOOOOO! Estolad is NOT mine! it is a goddamn photo for some unknown area in the world! BUT! I have decided to edit it to make it somehow believable to Middle-earth! I edited to make it somehow believable to Middle-earth! Ergo, this particular image IS mine! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:57, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::No. You are wrong. Editing someone else's image does not make it yours in terms of copyright. You may possess the electronic file but you cannot claim it as yours for copyright purposes, and, therefore, it is not allowable on Tolkien Gateway. Please [https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/copyright_myths read this] with particular reference to items 4, 5 and especially 6. This is the point, WM - amending copyrighted work does not enable you to claim it is yours. As you said, "''Estolad is NOT mine! it is a goddamn photo for some unknown area in the world!''" that remains the case even when you edit it. Please tell me you understand this principle. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:08, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::::::This particular image has no copyright embedded to itself...so...it's free to use. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:17, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::::Try [https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/copyright_myths reading this] again. Point 5. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:20, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::::::::OK, I'm sincerely, really, sorry! I apologize for your trouble! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:23, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::::::So, do you understand now? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:26, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Yes. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:29, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::OK. On that basis can you now tell me which images you have created yourself from scratch, and which images are merely amendments of other people's work? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:32, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Bór, Uldor, Elmo, Formenos. All of the others are photomanipulation (mind you, there are NO "artists" for those, they are simply photos that I edited). [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:37, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T13:37:18Z

Woolly Mammoth:

This is yours, is it? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:10, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:Yes it is. {{unsigned|Woolly Mammoth}}

::Thanks. How would you explain the fact [https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZis-7MA4ADNO6C9-FQWz0bdHVaWEtxUG_1qAB9K8rFviFmOi0K2XwpmoBx7f7lIYyZqYboDNzHalbBm8lvdf4F2QkLKMI8_1CPhfqt0yOY6SNYtsgJRYGA6OmDpVJGAYqxeRVN6rjd6bBi7oGTmbE-qk3_1-C6ex2r0yKh-LWWKDN37dzm8V1RziU8ArjYItdWTzgTVffuy0H4opO6jwUVy4-6Ef0kVyFRAVH86-XBF8kCtfD-3G0a959bCbxLQnDqrOCXdk51GXnaTPX1vOxNnUoM8s2gzc0m5ABOQGJt6f4PQBwB1IooUrSi8dHIWdPRzF-oPrmu4G8poa3bWK_1ZyXfGnmWazjiYSs4-sHS-OQZHNSLuCD8jnL81lFRws7i9GE-g7BDX_1n9Tqlkw_1FloGDWbnJEPAaNjAodQng7ecD8Wex9E8d0dZRU3js3WgU-g6G7oiq3U7Rw73Q6KZd_1mFUHXhuoNQvRspIPtz_1ifVFKsMvDEoEveos4upubENPKtfm_1bC7rcbsZkoX6YgnjZjdR84iNmadrB2VbFOVQI0-tezJhcVjYGq1eVnGs2Fdlk3eT2e4eO1R8_1wm65drAR77UX--nw3RS0wxulswVWyl393jIjkDCD8t83kqlQ4R-2kD0Hbx4YFLBXGMOnJLGIidSQTsBVXqIg033wRcAVOg_1m8GiIT2La_19fYJK83Bv4EgmSGafbX6WyMWw_15Xu92Vudrjt6U7-Shi_1HeIN6OjBWsqbsXUuRiju8bqwG9grCb98JRqY0L7N5OfRGiAlqF36qNjv4pIjEYRaZGcUAPm_11jHM9SqowZJOr7aICLqR3A9KXr_1gWmt5Juc257WrZMEZe7bm5iKEnJk4cZMIE_1bQP4JPXI-7ifQqPfdhHP-EQ-FJ1n8Lsf0YyXzHqQITX2q2TKrSAgp7lja7ePfrmSBY3TCrbDkF5Zxe6_1uK4mK8TWcHbBGwhwwXb2g1_1gX0KWjvlwCRuWx-Gr723GqCCwm1T8mhH5MXY7QTtQtnir9Qcl02XPzITxj5_1l-SCn-iqo7DZ1TKdpWgXSgZcJ3ANRwo8e7NPVmG10Y6Zin2lhoupnlAl6GW3RleHjlczxB9EZfVDC3LRtq8GbvbmknnyuSXdq8aPojFexco1bLbByPOODbTNP8Zrgx-6OhGKBYkBAYUpDZQKBtcuLbWLGUr908OJprYdwyrIgq1Pki4qLa-Na09Kcs5AjA95XDyOR_1fAIzQANyutR9xZ6uDPXZePtzfKfvYH2h49cxxCUbcnPpBIm5SW_1wS9cNwkX-yUzxYGu11_1dgBRp6JDUjtCG459RIGwHVEJ69sPKNCkhwX80_1SpUZDR4K8xXZ41o_1cwApHMKy54OpVgpSpsKDvY6Br7VxEa2iaDEpPXn3U4zSRiD9bs2QYh7gMpo0UvbVpqo0Ddr3bKJmzVauXJ-PwpmeiwX_1IgYEh63B2v4WFez7k6rTeDW_136VAAqyJ65Ct-oV89_1SgSLzqgDrR3R2RC56nr5Nnob392uRYWE4wa-u8E6ZpZCVtsCQoVygM1sCjV2LVr8pGgn8U8aHfxTo2PsqbaNhYTB9bGPoWCNIkx7_11Vj25-wXA27Pxu7YXNQVF9u84hmSpwcqKjsyVSlPNARRvuIoQ1Ncawe7p_19I1pGLOyUEVLeTQgv12kD_1E&btnG=Search%20by%20image I found many matching examples of this image] online? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:30, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::Because I used this image as an inspiration for what I'm about to do. Besides, I was drunk. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 11:39, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::So you now admit that you've infringed someone else's copyright - again? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:40, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::Copyright of whom? This is just a photo that I'm about to edit. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 11:43, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::The Internet is not some free-for-all where you can just take whatever you want without attribution; unless explicitly released with a licence allowing you to share/amend then you are infringing someone else's copyright. You can't edit images on Tolkien Gateway so why have you uploaded it?
::::::You can regard this as "Strike Two". Twice I have caught you uploading copyrighted images; both times you denied it until I provided proof. Tomorrow I will go through and check every single one of your images. Between now and then I suggest you confess to any other images you have taken from elsewhere without permission and "edited"; should I find any image that I believe infringes copyright then I will take further action. Is that clear? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:51, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::Here you go! Are you happy? {{unsigned|Woolly Mammoth}}

::::::::No - do you understand what I've just said? Wrecking someone else's image by flipping it and fiddling with the hue/saturation/contrast doesn't suddenly make it yours. This is copyright theft; this image will be deleted. What I now need is for you to recognise that this is unacceptable, and for you to take appropriate action against any other images you have uploaded which are also stolen from someone else. You and I both know you have uploaded images where you have done the same thing (stolen the image, fiddled with the contrast a bit, and claimed it as your own); you need to mark those images for deletion now. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:01, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::What images are you talking about? {{unsigned|Woolly Mammoth}}

::::::::::Do you understand what I have said? Yes or No? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:06, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::What images, in particular, are you talking about? "VunastiMamut" is a croatized version of "Woolly Mammoth"! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::I know that... I said "''You and I both know you have uploaded images where you have done the same thing (stolen the image, fiddled with the contrast a bit, '''and claimed it as your own''')''". Do you struggle with the sentence, "''Do you understand what I have said? Yes or No?''"? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:11, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::My images are MY OWN. You have no right, administrator or not, to act like an overlord! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:14, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Look, you seem to be struggling to understand this concept. Taking someone else's images and change them a bit do not make them yours. They are NOT your images. This is copyright infringement and will not be tolerated here. Twice now I have caught you doing this. I suspect if I went through all of your images I would find others in the same category. You need to mark those images for deletion now. Do you understand? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Try it! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:21, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::And, I was wondering how did you came to the conclusion that my art is stolen? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:23, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::OK. You are deliberately refusing to answer me. If I find a single image you have stolen and amended - in the same way as this Estolad one - I will consider deleting all your images and banning you from Tolkien Gateway. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:24, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::OK. You wan't to ban a user who did much to make site tolerable because of some damn picture? Go ahead! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:28, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::I note your continued failure to engage with the issue at hand. I don't want to ban you, but your failure to co-operate may force me to do so; if you point confess now which images are other people's then I definitely won't ban you. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:31, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::Like I said before...Tuor, Maeglin, Duilin, Galdor, Penlod, Rog...are NOT mine! All the others ARE mine...including Estolad. And I'm sorry for, sincerely, being drunk at the time. But still, considering Estolad, it's a landscape that I wish to edit to conform the standards of TG (which I did already). And yes, I'm not really into landscapes, though you were buffets for not accepting an edited image as an image in the, for example, infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:40, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::NO! Estolad is ''not'' yours - why won't you understand this? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::::NOOOOOOOOOOO! Estolad is NOT mine! it is a goddamn photo for some unknown area in the world! BUT! I have decided to edit it to make it somehow believable to Middle-earth! I edited to make it somehow believable to Middle-earth! Ergo, this particular image IS mine! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:57, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::No. You are wrong. Editing someone else's image does not make it yours in terms of copyright. You may possess the electronic file but you cannot claim it as yours for copyright purposes, and, therefore, it is not allowable on Tolkien Gateway. Please [https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/copyright_myths read this] with particular reference to items 4, 5 and especially 6. This is the point, WM - amending copyrighted work does not enable you to claim it is yours. As you said, "''Estolad is NOT mine! it is a goddamn photo for some unknown area in the world!''" that remains the case even when you edit it. Please tell me you understand this principle. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:08, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::::::This particular image has no copyright embedded to itself...so...it's free to use. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:17, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::::Try [https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/copyright_myths reading this] again. Point 5. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:20, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::::::::OK, I'm sincerely, really, sorry! I apologize for your trouble! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:23, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::::::So, do you understand now? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:26, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Yes. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:29, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::OK. On that basis can you now tell me which images you have created yourself from scratch, and which images are merely amendments of other people's work? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:32, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Bór, Uldor, Elmo, Formenos. All of the others are photomanipulation. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:37, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T13:29:52Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T13:23:45Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T13:17:58Z

Woolly Mammoth:

This is yours, is it? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:10, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:Yes it is. {{unsigned|Woolly Mammoth}}

::Thanks. How would you explain the fact [https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZis-7MA4ADNO6C9-FQWz0bdHVaWEtxUG_1qAB9K8rFviFmOi0K2XwpmoBx7f7lIYyZqYboDNzHalbBm8lvdf4F2QkLKMI8_1CPhfqt0yOY6SNYtsgJRYGA6OmDpVJGAYqxeRVN6rjd6bBi7oGTmbE-qk3_1-C6ex2r0yKh-LWWKDN37dzm8V1RziU8ArjYItdWTzgTVffuy0H4opO6jwUVy4-6Ef0kVyFRAVH86-XBF8kCtfD-3G0a959bCbxLQnDqrOCXdk51GXnaTPX1vOxNnUoM8s2gzc0m5ABOQGJt6f4PQBwB1IooUrSi8dHIWdPRzF-oPrmu4G8poa3bWK_1ZyXfGnmWazjiYSs4-sHS-OQZHNSLuCD8jnL81lFRws7i9GE-g7BDX_1n9Tqlkw_1FloGDWbnJEPAaNjAodQng7ecD8Wex9E8d0dZRU3js3WgU-g6G7oiq3U7Rw73Q6KZd_1mFUHXhuoNQvRspIPtz_1ifVFKsMvDEoEveos4upubENPKtfm_1bC7rcbsZkoX6YgnjZjdR84iNmadrB2VbFOVQI0-tezJhcVjYGq1eVnGs2Fdlk3eT2e4eO1R8_1wm65drAR77UX--nw3RS0wxulswVWyl393jIjkDCD8t83kqlQ4R-2kD0Hbx4YFLBXGMOnJLGIidSQTsBVXqIg033wRcAVOg_1m8GiIT2La_19fYJK83Bv4EgmSGafbX6WyMWw_15Xu92Vudrjt6U7-Shi_1HeIN6OjBWsqbsXUuRiju8bqwG9grCb98JRqY0L7N5OfRGiAlqF36qNjv4pIjEYRaZGcUAPm_11jHM9SqowZJOr7aICLqR3A9KXr_1gWmt5Juc257WrZMEZe7bm5iKEnJk4cZMIE_1bQP4JPXI-7ifQqPfdhHP-EQ-FJ1n8Lsf0YyXzHqQITX2q2TKrSAgp7lja7ePfrmSBY3TCrbDkF5Zxe6_1uK4mK8TWcHbBGwhwwXb2g1_1gX0KWjvlwCRuWx-Gr723GqCCwm1T8mhH5MXY7QTtQtnir9Qcl02XPzITxj5_1l-SCn-iqo7DZ1TKdpWgXSgZcJ3ANRwo8e7NPVmG10Y6Zin2lhoupnlAl6GW3RleHjlczxB9EZfVDC3LRtq8GbvbmknnyuSXdq8aPojFexco1bLbByPOODbTNP8Zrgx-6OhGKBYkBAYUpDZQKBtcuLbWLGUr908OJprYdwyrIgq1Pki4qLa-Na09Kcs5AjA95XDyOR_1fAIzQANyutR9xZ6uDPXZePtzfKfvYH2h49cxxCUbcnPpBIm5SW_1wS9cNwkX-yUzxYGu11_1dgBRp6JDUjtCG459RIGwHVEJ69sPKNCkhwX80_1SpUZDR4K8xXZ41o_1cwApHMKy54OpVgpSpsKDvY6Br7VxEa2iaDEpPXn3U4zSRiD9bs2QYh7gMpo0UvbVpqo0Ddr3bKJmzVauXJ-PwpmeiwX_1IgYEh63B2v4WFez7k6rTeDW_136VAAqyJ65Ct-oV89_1SgSLzqgDrR3R2RC56nr5Nnob392uRYWE4wa-u8E6ZpZCVtsCQoVygM1sCjV2LVr8pGgn8U8aHfxTo2PsqbaNhYTB9bGPoWCNIkx7_11Vj25-wXA27Pxu7YXNQVF9u84hmSpwcqKjsyVSlPNARRvuIoQ1Ncawe7p_19I1pGLOyUEVLeTQgv12kD_1E&btnG=Search%20by%20image I found many matching examples of this image] online? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:30, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::Because I used this image as an inspiration for what I'm about to do. Besides, I was drunk. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 11:39, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::So you now admit that you've infringed someone else's copyright - again? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:40, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::Copyright of whom? This is just a photo that I'm about to edit. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 11:43, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::The Internet is not some free-for-all where you can just take whatever you want without attribution; unless explicitly released with a licence allowing you to share/amend then you are infringing someone else's copyright. You can't edit images on Tolkien Gateway so why have you uploaded it?
::::::You can regard this as "Strike Two". Twice I have caught you uploading copyrighted images; both times you denied it until I provided proof. Tomorrow I will go through and check every single one of your images. Between now and then I suggest you confess to any other images you have taken from elsewhere without permission and "edited"; should I find any image that I believe infringes copyright then I will take further action. Is that clear? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:51, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::Here you go! Are you happy? {{unsigned|Woolly Mammoth}}

::::::::No - do you understand what I've just said? Wrecking someone else's image by flipping it and fiddling with the hue/saturation/contrast doesn't suddenly make it yours. This is copyright theft; this image will be deleted. What I now need is for you to recognise that this is unacceptable, and for you to take appropriate action against any other images you have uploaded which are also stolen from someone else. You and I both know you have uploaded images where you have done the same thing (stolen the image, fiddled with the contrast a bit, and claimed it as your own); you need to mark those images for deletion now. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:01, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::What images are you talking about? {{unsigned|Woolly Mammoth}}

::::::::::Do you understand what I have said? Yes or No? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:06, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::What images, in particular, are you talking about? "VunastiMamut" is a croatized version of "Woolly Mammoth"! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::I know that... I said "''You and I both know you have uploaded images where you have done the same thing (stolen the image, fiddled with the contrast a bit, '''and claimed it as your own''')''". Do you struggle with the sentence, "''Do you understand what I have said? Yes or No?''"? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:11, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::My images are MY OWN. You have no right, administrator or not, to act like an overlord! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:14, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Look, you seem to be struggling to understand this concept. Taking someone else's images and change them a bit do not make them yours. They are NOT your images. This is copyright infringement and will not be tolerated here. Twice now I have caught you doing this. I suspect if I went through all of your images I would find others in the same category. You need to mark those images for deletion now. Do you understand? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Try it! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:21, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::And, I was wondering how did you came to the conclusion that my art is stolen? [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:23, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::OK. You are deliberately refusing to answer me. If I find a single image you have stolen and amended - in the same way as this Estolad one - I will consider deleting all your images and banning you from Tolkien Gateway. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:24, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::OK. You wan't to ban a user who did much to make site tolerable because of some damn picture? Go ahead! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:28, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::I note your continued failure to engage with the issue at hand. I don't want to ban you, but your failure to co-operate may force me to do so; if you point confess now which images are other people's then I definitely won't ban you. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:31, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::Like I said before...Tuor, Maeglin, Duilin, Galdor, Penlod, Rog...are NOT mine! All the others ARE mine...including Estolad. And I'm sorry for, sincerely, being drunk at the time. But still, considering Estolad, it's a landscape that I wish to edit to conform the standards of TG (which I did already). And yes, I'm not really into landscapes, though you were buffets for not accepting an edited image as an image in the, for example, infobox. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:40, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::NO! Estolad is ''not'' yours - why won't you understand this? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:46, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::::NOOOOOOOOOOO! Estolad is NOT mine! it is a goddamn photo for some unknown area in the world! BUT! I have decided to edit it to make it somehow believable to Middle-earth! I edited to make it somehow believable to Middle-earth! Ergo, this particular image IS mine! [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 12:57, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::No. You are wrong. Editing someone else's image does not make it yours in terms of copyright. You may possess the electronic file but you cannot claim it as yours for copyright purposes, and, therefore, it is not allowable on Tolkien Gateway. Please [https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/copyright_myths read this] with particular reference to items 4, 5 and especially 6. This is the point, WM - amending copyrighted work does not enable you to claim it is yours. As you said, "''Estolad is NOT mine! it is a goddamn photo for some unknown area in the world!''" that remains the case even when you edit it. Please tell me you understand this principle. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:08, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::This particular image has no copyright embedded to itself...so...it's free to use. [[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:17, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T12:57:44Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T12:40:33Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T12:28:41Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T12:23:06Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T12:21:02Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T12:20:36Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T12:14:21Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T12:09:13Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T12:03:25Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T11:56:37Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T11:43:05Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T11:39:01Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File talk:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg

2015-06-18T11:23:28Z

Woolly Mammoth:

This is yours, is it? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:10, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

::Yes it is.

Estolad

2015-06-18T10:56:14Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{location
| image=[[File:VunastiMamut - Estolad.jpg|250px]]
| name=Estolad
| othernames=
| etymology=
| type=Plain
| location=East of [[Celon]] and south of [[Nan Elmoth]]
| inhabitants=[[Men]]
| realms=[[Amrod]] and [[Amras]]'s lands[[Baran]] and [[Marach]]'s domains
| description=Green and fertile<ref name="West">{{S|West}}</ref>
| events=
| references=
|}}
'''Estolad''' was a green and fertile plain in [[East Beleriand]] east of the River [[Celon]] and south of the forest of [[Nan Elmoth]].<ref>{{S|Map}}</ref>

==History==
In the [[First Age]] the [[Noldor]] returned to [[Middle-earth]] and established realms in [[Beleriand]]. Estolad was part of the region ruled by Amrod and Amras, twins who were the youngest sons of [[Fëanor]]. It appears though that few [[Elves]] settled in this area and thus it was available for later settlers.

Over three centuries after the return of the Noldor, Men began migrating over the [[Ered Luin]] into the Elvish lands of [[Beleriand]]. It was [[Finrod]] who first came into contact with these newcomers in [[Ossiriand]] near the mountains and made friends with [[Bëor]] and his people. However, the [[Green-elves]] of the region did not want these strangers, hewers of trees and hunters of beasts, to settle in their domain. They asked Finrod to persuade the followers of Bëor and others yet to come to move on. Finrod did successfully persuade these people to remove to Estolad, which in [[Sindarin]] meant the "Encampment". Although Bëor left to be in the service of Finrod, Bëor's son [[Baran]] continued to rule his people in Estolad.

The people of the [[Haladin]] migrated into [[Thargelion]], but the people of [[Marach]] followed the people of Bëor to Estolad, where they dwelt south and east of the first arrivals. However, the [[Edain]] in Estolad desired to continue to move westward and the kings of the Noldor, seeing strong potential in Men as allies, invited them to come live in their realms. Within fifty years thousands of Men had departed from the region,<ref name="West"/> although many remained until East Beleriand was overrun during the [[Dagor Bragollach]].<ref>{{S|Fingolfin}}</ref>

The Haladin living in Thargelion were harassed by the [[Orcs]] of [[Morgoth]]. When an Orc-raid was sent to fall upon these people one man, [[Haldad]], gathered fighting men into a stockade and resisted the Orcs. Haldad and his son [[Haldar]] were killed but their people were saved by the arrival of [[Caranthir]] and his host. The Elf lord offered land in his realm to [[Haleth]], the daughter of Haldad who had continued the resistance to the Orcs, but she refused Caranthir's offer. Instead she led her people to Estolad where they dwelt for a time. This though was temporary; eventually Haleth would move her people to the [[Forest of Brethil]].<ref name="West"/>

==Other Versions of the Legendarium==
On the second Map of Beleriand, on Sheet 2 North-east, in square F11, Estolad is written as "Estoland". As [[Christopher Tolkien]] noted, in all other occurrences the name is Estolad.<ref>{{WJ|Beleriand}}, pp. 183, 189</ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Beleriand]]
[[Category:Regions]]
[[Category:Sindarin locations]]
[[Category:Fields, plains and deserts]]

File:Jeremiah Humphries - The Long Lake.jpg

2015-06-18T10:09:48Z

Woolly Mammoth:

== Licensing ==
{{Copyright-permission|J-Humphries|http://j-humphries.deviantart.com/|J-Humphries}}

[[Category:Images by J-Humphries]]
[[Category:Images of Lake-town]]

File:Jeremiah Humphries - The Long Lake.jpg

2015-06-18T10:08:26Z

Woolly Mammoth:

File:Jeremiah Humphries - Bard the Bowman.jpg

2015-06-18T10:07:31Z

Woolly Mammoth:

== Licensing ==
{{Copyright-permission|J-Humphries|http://j-humphries.deviantart.com/|J-Humphries}}

[[Category:Images by J-Humphries]]
[[Category:Images of Bard]]

File:Jeremiah Humphries - Beorn.jpg

2015-06-18T10:06:25Z

Woolly Mammoth:

== Licensing ==
{{Copyright-permission|J-Humphries|http://j-humphries.deviantart.com/|J-Humphries}}

[[Category:Images by J-Humphries]]
[[Category:Images of Beorn]]

File:Jeremiah Humphries - Beorn.jpg

2015-06-18T10:03:14Z

Woolly Mammoth:

Tolkien Gateway:Copyrights/Jeremiah Humphries

2015-06-18T09:58:20Z

Woolly Mammoth: Created page with "*J-Humphries has kindly granted his permission to use his artwork on Tolkien Gateway. *Date: 18 June 2015 *User who sought the permission ..."

*J-Humphries has kindly granted his permission to use [[:Category:Images by J-Humphries|his artwork]] on [[Tolkien Gateway]].
*Date: 18 June 2015
*User who sought the permission via email: [[User:Woolly Mammoth]]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Alais}}
[[Category:Evidence of permission granted by copyright holders]]

File:Jeremiah Humphries - Bard the Bowman.jpg

2015-06-18T09:55:05Z

Woolly Mammoth:

==Licensing==
{{Copyright-permission|J-Humphries|J-Humphries}}

[[Category:Images by J-Humphries]]
[[Category:Images of Bard]]

File:Jeremiah Humphries - Bard the Bowman.jpg

2015-06-18T09:52:56Z

Woolly Mammoth:

== Summary ==
[[Category:Images by VunastiMamut]]
[[Category:Images of Orocarni]]
== Licensing ==
{{Copyright-permission|INSERT NAME OF COPYRIGHT HOLDER|INSERT HOLDER'S WEBSITE|INSERT TG LINK}}

File:Jeremiah Humphries - Bard the Bowman.jpg

2015-06-18T09:52:24Z

Woolly Mammoth: == Licensing == {{Copyright-permission|VunastiMamut|http://vunastimamut.deviantart.com/|VunastiMamut}} Category:Images by VunastiMamut Category:Images of Orocarni

== Summary ==
== Licensing ==
{{Copyright-permission|VunastiMamut|http://vunastimamut.deviantart.com/|VunastiMamut}}

[[Category:Images by VunastiMamut]]
[[Category:Images of Orocarni]]
== Licensing ==
{{Copyright-permission|INSERT NAME OF COPYRIGHT HOLDER|INSERT HOLDER'S WEBSITE|INSERT TG LINK}}

File:VunastiMamut - Formenos.jpg

2015-06-18T09:26:29Z

Woolly Mammoth:

== Licensing ==
{{Copyright-permission|VunastiMamut|http://vunastimamut.deviantart.com/|VunastiMamut}}

[[Category:Images by VunastiMamut]]
[[Category:Images of Formenos]]

File:VunastiMamut - Formenos.jpg

2015-06-18T09:25:53Z

Woolly Mammoth:

Maglor

2015-06-18T09:16:59Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{noldor infobox
| image=[[Image:Sian Lloyd Pennell - Maglor.jpg|250px]]
| name=Maglor
| pronun=
| othernames=''Kanafinwë'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]]), ''[[Makalaurë]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Amilessë|mn]])
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Tirion]]; [[Maglor's Gap]]
| affiliation=[[Oath of Fëanor]]
| language=[[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]]
| birth=after {{YT|1190}}
| birthlocation=[[Tirion]]
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=Fate unknown
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=[[House of Fëanor]]
| parentage=[[Fëanor]] & [[Nerdanel]]
| siblings=[[Maedhros]], [[Celegorm]], [[Caranthir]], [[Curufin]], [[Amrod]] and [[Amras]]
| spouse=Unnamed wife<ref>{{PM|XNotes}}, p. 318 (note 7)</ref>
| children=Fostered [[Elrond]] and [[Elros]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=Dark
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Maglor''' ([[Sindarin|S]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈmaɡlor]}}) was the second of the [[Sons of Fëanor]]. He had more of his mother [[Nerdanel|Nerdanel's]] gentle spirit than any of his brothers. Maglor was known for his [[Minstrels|poetry and singing]],<ref>{{S|Princes}}</ref> but in [[Tirion]] he swore the [[Oath of Fëanor]] and shared in the woes it bred.<ref name="Flight">{{S|Flight}}</ref>

==History==
Maglor was present at the [[Kinslaying at Alqualondë]]. To what degree he participated in the slaughter is unknown but later he composed the lament ''[[Noldolantë]]'', the Fall of the the [[Noldor]], in memory of the terrible event.<ref name="Flight"/> Following [[Fëanor]] into exile, Maglor witnessed his father die after he had fought [[Gothmog (balrog)|Gothmog]].<ref>{{S|Return}}</ref>

[[File:Marya Filatova - The one who stays - 1.jpg|thumb|left|The Wife of Maglor|125px]]The sons of Fëanor settled in the eastern part of [[Beleriand]]. Maglor's ward was the opening in the hills between the two arms of the [[Gelion]] River which acquired the name of '''[[Maglor's Gap]]'''. Due to the lack of hills the Gap was a natural route for attacks from the north and the Noldor kept a strength of cavalry in that region.<ref>{{S|Beleriand}}</ref>

Maglor's Gap was held for four and a half centuries. However, in the [[Dagor Bragollach]] the [[Dragons|dragon]] [[Glaurung]] invaded and laid waste to Maglor's land, forcing Maglor to flee to the fortress of his brother [[Maedhros]] on the hill of [[Himring]] to the west.<ref>{{S|Fingolfin}}</ref> Sixteen years later, he and Maedhros marched to the great battle that the [[Elves]] hoped would see their revenge upon [[Morgoth]], but they were defeated, partly by the treachery of [[Uldor the Accursed]]. Maglor himself slew Uldor, but all of the sons of Fëanor were wounded and they were forced to retreat to [[Mount Dolmed]]. The heavy loss led to the name of the battle thereafter: the [[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]] or the "Battle of Unnumbered Tears". Maglor and his brothers took to a wild woodland life in [[Ossiriand]].<ref>{{S|Fifth}}</ref>

Prior to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, one of the three [[Silmarils]] had been recovered from [[Iron Crown|Morgoth's Crown]].<ref>{{S|Beren}}</ref> From his parents [[Dior|Dior Eluchíl]] received the jewel and brought it to [[Doriath]]. True to their oath, the sons of Fëanor (led by [[Celegorm]]) demanded the Silmaril. When Dior refused to surrender it the brothers assaulted Thingol's ancient kingdom. [[Celegorm]], [[Caranthir]] and [[Curufin]] all fell, as did Dior and his wife, [[Nimloth of Doriath]]. But the three remaining brothers - Maglor, Maedhros, and [[Amrod]] - did not recover the Silmaril for [[Elwing]], the daughter of Dior and Nimloth, escaped.<ref>{{S|Doriath}}</ref>
[[File:Turner Mohan - Maglor's Fosterling.jpg|left|thumb|Maglor and Elrond]]
Eventually the three brothers heard tiding that [[Elwing]] possessed a Silmaril and dwelt at the [[Mouths of Sirion]]. Driven by their Oath, the remaining sons of Fëanor made a sudden attack upon the refugees of [[Gondolin]] and Doriath. However they were again thwarted for Elwing escaped with the Silmaril across the [[Belegaer|Sea]] to her husband [[Eärendil]]. Together they sailed into the [[Aman|West]] and their voyage would eventually cause the downfall of Morgoth. Meanwhile, [[Elrond]] and [[Elros]], Eärendil and Elwing's sons, captured in the battle, were adopted by Maglor, and it is said that love grew between them.
[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Maglor Casts a Silmaril into the Sea.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Maglor Casts a Silmaril into the Sea'']]
After Morgoth's fall the last two Silmarils were recovered from his Crown. By this time, only Maedhros and Maglor remained of Fëanor's sons. In weariness and loathing they demanded the jewels from [[Eönwë]], the herald of [[Manwë]]. Eönwë refused them the Silmarils due to their many evil deeds. Still driven, the two brothers crept into the camp of Eönwë and stole the jewels. Though they were caught Eönwë let them depart. Maedhros and Maglor each took one jewel but their evil deeds caused the holy Jewels to burn their skin. Maedhros in despair cast himself into a fiery fissure. Maglor, the last surviving son of Fëanor, threw his Silmaril into the Sea. Legend says that he still wanders the shores of the World, singing laments for his despair and regret.<ref>{{S|Earendil}}</ref>

==Etymology==
His [[father-name]] was '''''Kanafinwë''''', a name which in [[Quenya]] means "Strong-voiced [of] [[Finwë]]". It is derived from ''[[káno]]'', a noun which means "commander", added to the name of his grandfather.<ref>{{PM|Feanor}}, p. 352</ref> His [[Amilessë|mother-name]] was '''''[[Makalaurë]]'''''. In [[The Etymologies]] it is interpreted as "Gold-cleaver".<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, '''MAK-'''</ref> A possible explanation for this translation is given in [[The Shibboleth of Feanor]], where it is stated that the name might be a reference to his skill in harping, whose sound was golden.<ref>{{PM|Feanor}}, p. 353</ref>

== Genealogy ==
Names shown in ''italics'' are females.
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| MHT | | MIR |y| FIN |y| IND | | | | | | | | | | | | |MHT=[[Mahtan]]| MIR=''[[Míriel]]''|FIN=[[Finwë]]|IND=''[[Indis]]''}}
{{familytree| |!| | | | | |!| | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |}}
{{familytree| NRD |~|y|~| FEA | | FDS | | FNG | | IRM | | FRF | | |NRD=''[[Nerdanel]]''|FEA=[[Fëanor]]|FDS=''[[Findis]]''|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]|IRM=''[[Írimë]]''|FRF=[[Finarfin]]}}
{{familytree| |,|-|-|^|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| MDH | | MAG | | CEL | | CAR | | CUR | | AMD | | AMR |MDH=[[Maedhros]]|MAG='''MAGLOR'''|CEL=[[Celegorm]]|CAR=[[Caranthir]]|CUR=[[Curufin]]|AMD=[[Amrod]]|AMR=[[Amras]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CLB | | | | | | | | |CLB=[[Celebrimbor]]}}
{{familytree/end}}

==See also==
*[[:Category:Images of Maglor|Images of Maglor]]

==External links==
*[http://www.lotrplaza.com/showthread.php?40462-Nodens-and-Maglor Nodens and Maglor]

{{references}}

[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Sons of Fëanor]]
[[Category:Sindarin names]]
[[Category:First Age characters]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[de:Maglor]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/noldor/maglor]]
[[fi:Maglor]]

Maglor

2015-06-18T09:15:03Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{noldor infobox
| image=[[Image:Sian Lloyd Pennell - Maglor|250px]]
| name=Maglor
| pronun=
| othernames=''Kanafinwë'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]]), ''[[Makalaurë]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Amilessë|mn]])
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Tirion]]; [[Maglor's Gap]]
| affiliation=[[Oath of Fëanor]]
| language=[[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]]
| birth=after {{YT|1190}}
| birthlocation=[[Tirion]]
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=Fate unknown
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=[[House of Fëanor]]
| parentage=[[Fëanor]] & [[Nerdanel]]
| siblings=[[Maedhros]], [[Celegorm]], [[Caranthir]], [[Curufin]], [[Amrod]] and [[Amras]]
| spouse=Unnamed wife<ref>{{PM|XNotes}}, p. 318 (note 7)</ref>
| children=Fostered [[Elrond]] and [[Elros]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=Dark
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Maglor''' ([[Sindarin|S]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈmaɡlor]}}) was the second of the [[Sons of Fëanor]]. He had more of his mother [[Nerdanel|Nerdanel's]] gentle spirit than any of his brothers. Maglor was known for his [[Minstrels|poetry and singing]],<ref>{{S|Princes}}</ref> but in [[Tirion]] he swore the [[Oath of Fëanor]] and shared in the woes it bred.<ref name="Flight">{{S|Flight}}</ref>

==History==
Maglor was present at the [[Kinslaying at Alqualondë]]. To what degree he participated in the slaughter is unknown but later he composed the lament ''[[Noldolantë]]'', the Fall of the the [[Noldor]], in memory of the terrible event.<ref name="Flight"/> Following [[Fëanor]] into exile, Maglor witnessed his father die after he had fought [[Gothmog (balrog)|Gothmog]].<ref>{{S|Return}}</ref>

[[File:Marya Filatova - The one who stays - 1.jpg|thumb|left|The Wife of Maglor|125px]]The sons of Fëanor settled in the eastern part of [[Beleriand]]. Maglor's ward was the opening in the hills between the two arms of the [[Gelion]] River which acquired the name of '''[[Maglor's Gap]]'''. Due to the lack of hills the Gap was a natural route for attacks from the north and the Noldor kept a strength of cavalry in that region.<ref>{{S|Beleriand}}</ref>

Maglor's Gap was held for four and a half centuries. However, in the [[Dagor Bragollach]] the [[Dragons|dragon]] [[Glaurung]] invaded and laid waste to Maglor's land, forcing Maglor to flee to the fortress of his brother [[Maedhros]] on the hill of [[Himring]] to the west.<ref>{{S|Fingolfin}}</ref> Sixteen years later, he and Maedhros marched to the great battle that the [[Elves]] hoped would see their revenge upon [[Morgoth]], but they were defeated, partly by the treachery of [[Uldor the Accursed]]. Maglor himself slew Uldor, but all of the sons of Fëanor were wounded and they were forced to retreat to [[Mount Dolmed]]. The heavy loss led to the name of the battle thereafter: the [[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]] or the "Battle of Unnumbered Tears". Maglor and his brothers took to a wild woodland life in [[Ossiriand]].<ref>{{S|Fifth}}</ref>

Prior to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, one of the three [[Silmarils]] had been recovered from [[Iron Crown|Morgoth's Crown]].<ref>{{S|Beren}}</ref> From his parents [[Dior|Dior Eluchíl]] received the jewel and brought it to [[Doriath]]. True to their oath, the sons of Fëanor (led by [[Celegorm]]) demanded the Silmaril. When Dior refused to surrender it the brothers assaulted Thingol's ancient kingdom. [[Celegorm]], [[Caranthir]] and [[Curufin]] all fell, as did Dior and his wife, [[Nimloth of Doriath]]. But the three remaining brothers - Maglor, Maedhros, and [[Amrod]] - did not recover the Silmaril for [[Elwing]], the daughter of Dior and Nimloth, escaped.<ref>{{S|Doriath}}</ref>
[[File:Turner Mohan - Maglor's Fosterling.jpg|left|thumb|Maglor and Elrond]]
Eventually the three brothers heard tiding that [[Elwing]] possessed a Silmaril and dwelt at the [[Mouths of Sirion]]. Driven by their Oath, the remaining sons of Fëanor made a sudden attack upon the refugees of [[Gondolin]] and Doriath. However they were again thwarted for Elwing escaped with the Silmaril across the [[Belegaer|Sea]] to her husband [[Eärendil]]. Together they sailed into the [[Aman|West]] and their voyage would eventually cause the downfall of Morgoth. Meanwhile, [[Elrond]] and [[Elros]], Eärendil and Elwing's sons, captured in the battle, were adopted by Maglor, and it is said that love grew between them.
[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Maglor Casts a Silmaril into the Sea.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Maglor Casts a Silmaril into the Sea'']]
After Morgoth's fall the last two Silmarils were recovered from his Crown. By this time, only Maedhros and Maglor remained of Fëanor's sons. In weariness and loathing they demanded the jewels from [[Eönwë]], the herald of [[Manwë]]. Eönwë refused them the Silmarils due to their many evil deeds. Still driven, the two brothers crept into the camp of Eönwë and stole the jewels. Though they were caught Eönwë let them depart. Maedhros and Maglor each took one jewel but their evil deeds caused the holy Jewels to burn their skin. Maedhros in despair cast himself into a fiery fissure. Maglor, the last surviving son of Fëanor, threw his Silmaril into the Sea. Legend says that he still wanders the shores of the World, singing laments for his despair and regret.<ref>{{S|Earendil}}</ref>

==Etymology==
His [[father-name]] was '''''Kanafinwë''''', a name which in [[Quenya]] means "Strong-voiced [of] [[Finwë]]". It is derived from ''[[káno]]'', a noun which means "commander", added to the name of his grandfather.<ref>{{PM|Feanor}}, p. 352</ref> His [[Amilessë|mother-name]] was '''''[[Makalaurë]]'''''. In [[The Etymologies]] it is interpreted as "Gold-cleaver".<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, '''MAK-'''</ref> A possible explanation for this translation is given in [[The Shibboleth of Feanor]], where it is stated that the name might be a reference to his skill in harping, whose sound was golden.<ref>{{PM|Feanor}}, p. 353</ref>

== Genealogy ==
Names shown in ''italics'' are females.
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| MHT | | MIR |y| FIN |y| IND | | | | | | | | | | | | |MHT=[[Mahtan]]| MIR=''[[Míriel]]''|FIN=[[Finwë]]|IND=''[[Indis]]''}}
{{familytree| |!| | | | | |!| | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |}}
{{familytree| NRD |~|y|~| FEA | | FDS | | FNG | | IRM | | FRF | | |NRD=''[[Nerdanel]]''|FEA=[[Fëanor]]|FDS=''[[Findis]]''|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]|IRM=''[[Írimë]]''|FRF=[[Finarfin]]}}
{{familytree| |,|-|-|^|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| MDH | | MAG | | CEL | | CAR | | CUR | | AMD | | AMR |MDH=[[Maedhros]]|MAG='''MAGLOR'''|CEL=[[Celegorm]]|CAR=[[Caranthir]]|CUR=[[Curufin]]|AMD=[[Amrod]]|AMR=[[Amras]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CLB | | | | | | | | |CLB=[[Celebrimbor]]}}
{{familytree/end}}

==See also==
*[[:Category:Images of Maglor|Images of Maglor]]

==External links==
*[http://www.lotrplaza.com/showthread.php?40462-Nodens-and-Maglor Nodens and Maglor]

{{references}}

[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Sons of Fëanor]]
[[Category:Sindarin names]]
[[Category:First Age characters]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[de:Maglor]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/noldor/maglor]]
[[fi:Maglor]]

Category:Images of Maglor

2015-06-18T09:14:00Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{main|Maglor}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Maglor}}

[[Category:Images of the Sons of Fëanor]]
[[Category:Images of characters in The Silmarillion]]

Curufin

2015-06-18T08:50:05Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{sources}}
{{noldor infobox
| image=[[File:Marya Filatova - Curufin the Crafty.jpg|250px]]
| name=Curufin
| pronun=
| othernames=Curufin the Crafty, ''[[Curufinwë]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]]), ''[[Atarincë]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Amilessë|mn]])
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Tirion]]; [[Himlad]]
| affiliation=[[Oath of Fëanor]]; [[Union of Maedhros]]
| language=[[Quenya]], [[Sindarin]], [[Khuzdul]]<ref>{{PM|XI}}</ref>
| birth=after {{YT|1190}}
| birthlocation=[[Tirion]]
| rule=
| death={{FA|506}}
| deathlocation=[[Sack of Doriath]]: [[Menegroth]]
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=[[House of Fëanor]]
| parentage=[[Fëanor]] & [[Nerdanel]]
| siblings=[[Maedhros]], [[Maglor]], [[Celegorm]], [[Caranthir]], [[Amrod]] and [[Amras]]
| spouse=
| children=[[Celebrimbor]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=Black
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=[[Angrist]]
| steed=
}}'''Curufin''' ([[Sindarin|S]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈkurufin]}}) was a [[Noldor]]in prince, the fifth of the [[Sons of Fëanor|seven sons]] of [[Fëanor]] and [[Nerdanel]]. Curufin was Fëanor's favorite and much like him in appearance, temperament, and skill. He was also the father of [[Celebrimbor]], master jewel-smith of [[Eregion]], who forged the three [[Elves|Elvish]] [[Rings of Power]].

==History==
====Flight of the Noldor====
[[File:Marya Filatova - The one who stays - 3.jpg|thumb|left|The Wife of Caranthir|125px]]
Curufin was born in [[Tirion]] during the [[Years of the Trees]] and he
received the name '''[[Curufinwë]]''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[ˌkuruˈfinwe]}}), same as his father. Because his father, uncles and brothers also all had father-names that ended with ''-[[finwë]]'', Curufin was called '''Curvo''' (Q, pron. {{IPA|[ˈkurvo]}}) by his family. His [[Amilessë|mother-name]] was '''Atarinkë''' (Q, pron. {{IPA|[ˌataˈriŋke]}}). While in [[Valinor]], he married at some point, and had a son named [[Celebrimbor]].<ref>{{PM|XNotes}}, p. 318 (note 7)</ref> But Celebrimbor was unlike his father, and later on he came to dislike his deviousness and dealings with the other Noldor.

As with the other sons of Fëanor, Curufin bound himself by an [[Oath of Fëanor|oath]] to recover his father's [[Silmarils]], which had been stolen by the Dark Lord [[Morgoth]]. The Oath took him and his brothers to [[Endor]] during the [[First Age]] where they established realms in exile, waged war against the armies of Morgoth, fought their own Elvish kind, and eventually brought ruin upon themselves.

====Life in Beleriand====
Curufin dwelt with his brother [[Celegorm]] in [[Himlad]], a pass that led into Kingdom of [[Doriath]], which the two brothers fortified and held until the [[Dagor Bragollach]]. Following the battle, the two brothers were defeated and had to flee with their people to [[Nargothrond]], where their cousin [[Finrod]] welcomed them.
[[File:Tuuliky - Tyelkormo and Curufinwe.jpg|thumb|left|Tuuliky - ''Tyelkormo and Curufinwe'']]
Shortly after, [[Beren]] also came to Nargothrond to collect on an oath Finrod had made to his ancestor. Finrod decided to help Beren, but Celegorm and Curufin, remembering their own oath, persuaded the people of Nargothrond not to follow him, and not to wage open war against Morgoth, making them fearful.

Finrod therefore had to leave with a handful of warriors, including Beren, and later died. His nephew [[Orodreth]] was made to rule in his stead.

====The Attack upon Beren====
Later, Curufin and Celegorm went hunting with Celegorm's hound [[Huan]] and found [[Lúthien]], daughter of [[Thingol]], searching for Beren. Feigning to help her, they took her captive and brought her to Nargothrond, for Celegorm had become enamored and would have Thingol give him her hand. However Huan helped Lúthien to flee, and they freed Beren and other thralls from [[Sauron]]. As these thralls returned, the people of Nargothrond perceived the two brother's treachery, and though Orodreth would not let them be slain, he cast them from Nargothrond.

The two brothers met Lúthien and Beren as they fled, and Curufin fought with the latter. Defeated, he had to flee with Celegorm, but sought to slay Lúthien even as he did, and shot Beren instead.

Because of Celegorm and Curufin's evil deeds, Thingol and Orodreth would not join the [[Union of Maedhros]] against Morgoth.

====Death====
Curufin fell in the [[Second Kinslaying]], when the Sons of Fëanor attacked Doriath to seize a Silmaril in the possession of the King [[Dior]] the Beautiful. Celegorm and Caranthir died with him during the assault.

== Etymology ==
Curufin's [[father-name]] was ''[[Curufinwë]]'' ("Skillful [son of] [[Finwë]]"), the same father-name given to Fëanor. Because Curufin was Fëanor's favorite son, he chose to give him the same name. His [[Amilessë|mother-name]] was ''Atarinkë'' ("Little Father"), choosen because of his physical resemblance to his father. The name Curufin is the [[Sindarin]] version of his father-name. It is stated in [[The Shibboleth of Fëanor]] that of all the sons of Fëanor only Curufin did not prefer to use his mother-name.

== Genealogy ==
Names shown in ''italics'' are females.
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| MHT | | MIR |y| FIN |y| IND | | | | | | | | | | | | |MHT=[[Mahtan]]| MIR=''[[Míriel]]''|FIN=[[Finwë]]|IND=''[[Indis]]''}}
{{familytree| |!| | | | | |!| | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |}}
{{familytree| NRD |~|y|~| FEA | | FDS | | FNG | | IRM | | FRF | | |NRD=''[[Nerdanel]]''|FEA=[[Fëanor]]|FDS=''[[Findis]]''|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]|IRM=''[[Írimë]]''|FRF=[[Finarfin]]}}
{{familytree| |,|-|-|^|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| MDH | | MAG | | CEL | | CAR | | CUR | | AMD | | AMR |MDH=[[Maedhros]]|MAG=[[Maglor]]|CEL=[[Celegorm]]|CAR=[[Caranthir]]|CUR='''CURUFIN'''|AMD=[[Amrod]]|AMR=[[Amras]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CLB | | | | | | | | |CLB=[[Celebrimbor]]}}
{{familytree/end}}

==See also==
* [[:Category:Images of Curufin|Images of Curufin]]

{{references}}
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Flight of the Noldor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Return of the Noldor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Beleriand and its Realms]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Noldor in Beleriand]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Maeglin]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Beren and Lúthien]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Ruin of Doriath]]
* ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part Two]]'', [[The Tale of Tinúviel]]
* ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part Two]]'', [[The Nauglafring]]
* ''[[The Shaping of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Earliest Annals of Valinor]]
* ''[[The Shaping of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Earliest Annals of Beleriand]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[The later Annals of Beleriand]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[The later Annals of Valinor]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[Quenta Silmarillion]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[The Etymologies]]
* ''[[Morgoth's Ring]]'', [[The Annals of Aman]]
* ''[[Morgoth's Ring]]'', [[The Later Quenta Silmarillion]]
* ''[[The War of the Jewels]]'', [[The Grey Annals]]
* ''[[The War of the Jewels]]'', [[The Later Quenta Silmarillion]]
* ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Shibboleth of Feanor]]

[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Sons of Fëanor]]
[[Category:Sindarin names]]
[[Category:First Age characters]]
[[Category:Masculine names]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[de:Curufin]]
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:elfes:noldor:curufin]]
[[fi:Curufin]]

Caranthir

2015-06-18T08:48:27Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{sources}}
{{noldor infobox
| image=[[File:Catherine Chmiel - Carnistir 'Constellation'.jpg|250px]]
| name=Caranthir
| pronun=
| othernames=Caranthir the Dark, ''[[Morifinwë]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]]), ''[[Carnistir]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Amilessë|mn]])
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Tirion]]; [[Thargelion]] ([[Dor Caranthir]])
| affiliation=[[Oath of Fëanor]]
| language=[[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]]
| birth=after {{YT|1190}}
| birthlocation=[[Tirion]]
| rule=
| death={{FA|506}}
| deathlocation=[[Sack of Doriath]]: [[Menegroth]]
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=[[House of Fëanor]]
| parentage=[[Fëanor]] & [[Nerdanel]]
| siblings=[[Maedhros]], [[Maglor]], [[Celegorm]], [[Curufin]], [[Amrod]] and [[Amras]]
| spouse=Unnamed<ref>{{PM|XNotes}}, p. 318 (note 7)</ref>
| children=
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=Dark
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
{{Pronounce|Caranthir.mp3|Ardamir}}
'''Caranthir''', the fourth of the [[Sons of Fëanor]], was also the harshest and the quickest to anger. He was known as "Caranthir the Dark".

== History ==
As the other [[Sons of Fëanor]], Caranthir was bound by an [[Oath of Fëanor|oath]] to recover his father's [[Silmarils]], which had been stolen by the Dark Lord [[Morgoth]]. This oath took the seven brothers to [[Middle-earth]] during the [[First Age]], where they established realms in exile, waged war against the armies of Morgoth, fought their own [[Elvish]] kind, and eventually brought ruin upon themselves.

Caranthir's realm was in [[Thargelion]], and was sometimes called ''[[Dor Caranthir]]'' ("Caranthir's Land"). His abode was on the shores of [[Helevorn|Lake Helevorn]].

In First Age c. 420, Caranthir rescued [[Haleth]] and her people, the [[Haladin]], as they were besieged by [[Orcs]]. When he saw the valor of [[Men]], he offered the Haladin a fiefdom in his lands to the North. However Haleth, wanting her people to serve no lord, thanked him but removed to the [[Forest of Brethil]].

In 463, the [[Easterlings|Easterling]] [[Ulfang]] led his people over the [[Blue Mountains]] and swore allegiance to [[Maedhros]]. They were given land in [[Lothlann]] and became subjects of Caranthir.

In 472, the disaster of the [[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]] ("Battle of Unnumbered Tears") occurred, caused by the betrayal of the people of Ulfang. Caranthir lost his realm and was forced to retreat to [[Mount Dolmed]] with his surviving brothers.

In 505, he perished along with his brothers [[Celegorm]] and [[Curufin]] during the [[Second Kinslaying]], the attack by the Sons of Fëanor on [[Menegroth]] to recover a Silmaril from King [[Dior|Dior Eluchíl]] of [[Doriath]].[[File:Marya Filatova - The one who stays - 2.jpg|thumb|left|The Wife of Caranthir|125px]]

== Etymology ==
Caranthir's [[father-name]] was ''[[Morifinwë]]'', meaning "Dark [[Finwë]]", a reference to his dark hair. The [[Quenya]] word was formed using the noun ''[[more]]'', meaning "blackness", "night" or "dark", which became ''[[mori-]]'' when added to his grandfather's name, Finwë. His [[Amilessë|mother-name]] was ''[[Carnistir]]'', which can be translated as "Red-face". ''[[Carnë]]'' in Quenya means "red" or "scarlet". The name Caranthir is the [[Sindarin]] translation of his mother-name.

== Genealogy ==
Names shown in ''italics'' are females.
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| MHT | | MIR |y| FIN |y| IND | | | | | | | | | | | | |MHT=[[Mahtan]]| MIR=''[[Míriel]]''|FIN=[[Finwë]]|IND=''[[Indis]]''}}
{{familytree| |!| | | | | |!| | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |}}
{{familytree| NRD |~|y|~| FEA | | FDS | | FNG | | IRM | | FRF | | |NRD=''[[Nerdanel]]''|FEA=[[Fëanor]]|FDS=''[[Findis]]''|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]|IRM=''[[Írimë]]''|FRF=[[Finarfin]]}}
{{familytree| |,|-|-|^|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| MDH | | MAG | | CEL | | CAR | | CUR | | AMD | | AMR |MDH=[[Maedhros]]|MAG=[[Maglor]]|CEL=[[Celegorm]]|CAR='''CARANTHIR'''|CUR=[[Curufin]]|AMD=[[Amrod]]|AMR=[[Amras]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CLB | | | | | | | | |CLB=[[Celebrimbor]]}}
{{familytree/end}}
== Other Versions of the Legendarium ==
In ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part Two]]'', chapter called [[The Nauglafring]], he was called ''[[Cranthor]]'', while in the early version of the [[Quenta Silmarillion]], found in ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', he was named ''[[Cranthir]]''.

== See Also ==
* [[:Category:Images of Caranthir|Images of Caranthir]]

{{references}}
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Flight of the Noldor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Return of the Noldor]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of Beleriand and its Realms]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Noldor in Beleriand]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', [[Of the Ruin of Doriath]]
* ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part Two]]'', [[The Nauglafring]]
* ''[[The Shaping of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Earliest Annals of Valinor]]
* ''[[The Shaping of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Earliest Annals of Beleriand]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[The later Annals of Beleriand]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[The later Annals of Valinor]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[Quenta Silmarillion]]
* ''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'', [[The Etymologies]]
* ''[[Morgoth's Ring]]'', [[The Annals of Aman]]
* ''[[Morgoth's Ring]]'', [[The Later Quenta Silmarillion]]
* ''[[The War of the Jewels]]'', [[The Grey Annals]]
* ''[[The War of the Jewels]]'', [[The Later Quenta Silmarillion]]
* ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', [[The Shibboleth of Feanor]]

[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Sons of Fëanor]]
[[Category:First Age characters]]
[[Category:Sindarin names]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[de:Caranthir]]
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:elfes:noldor:caranthir]]
[[fi:Caranthir]]

Maglor

2015-06-17T19:59:57Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{noldor infobox
| image=[[Image:Jenny Dolfen - Maglor, son of Feanor.jpg|250px]]
| name=Maglor
| pronun=
| othernames=''Kanafinwë'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]]), ''[[Makalaurë]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Amilessë|mn]])
| titles=
| position=
| location=[[Tirion]]; [[Maglor's Gap]]
| affiliation=[[Oath of Fëanor]]
| language=[[Quenya]] and [[Sindarin]]
| birth=after {{YT|1190}}
| birthlocation=[[Tirion]]
| rule=
| death=
| deathlocation=Fate unknown
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=[[House of Fëanor]]
| parentage=[[Fëanor]] & [[Nerdanel]]
| siblings=[[Maedhros]], [[Celegorm]], [[Caranthir]], [[Curufin]], [[Amrod]] and [[Amras]]
| spouse=Unnamed wife<ref>{{PM|XNotes}}, p. 318 (note 7)</ref>
| children=Fostered [[Elrond]] and [[Elros]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=Dark
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
'''Maglor''' ([[Sindarin|S]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈmaɡlor]}}) was the second of the [[Sons of Fëanor]]. He had more of his mother [[Nerdanel|Nerdanel's]] gentle spirit than any of his brothers. Maglor was known for his [[Minstrels|poetry and singing]],<ref>{{S|Princes}}</ref> but in [[Tirion]] he swore the [[Oath of Fëanor]] and shared in the woes it bred.<ref name="Flight">{{S|Flight}}</ref>

==History==
Maglor was present at the [[Kinslaying at Alqualondë]]. To what degree he participated in the slaughter is unknown but later he composed the lament ''[[Noldolantë]]'', the Fall of the the [[Noldor]], in memory of the terrible event.<ref name="Flight"/> Following [[Fëanor]] into exile, Maglor witnessed his father die after he had fought [[Gothmog (balrog)|Gothmog]].<ref>{{S|Return}}</ref>

[[File:Marya Filatova - The one who stays - 1.jpg|thumb|left|The Wife of Maglor|125px]]The sons of Fëanor settled in the eastern part of [[Beleriand]]. Maglor's ward was the opening in the hills between the two arms of the [[Gelion]] River which acquired the name of '''[[Maglor's Gap]]'''. Due to the lack of hills the Gap was a natural route for attacks from the north and the Noldor kept a strength of cavalry in that region.<ref>{{S|Beleriand}}</ref>

Maglor's Gap was held for four and a half centuries. However, in the [[Dagor Bragollach]] the [[Dragons|dragon]] [[Glaurung]] invaded and laid waste to Maglor's land, forcing Maglor to flee to the fortress of his brother [[Maedhros]] on the hill of [[Himring]] to the west.<ref>{{S|Fingolfin}}</ref> Sixteen years later, he and Maedhros marched to the great battle that the [[Elves]] hoped would see their revenge upon [[Morgoth]], but they were defeated, partly by the treachery of [[Uldor the Accursed]]. Maglor himself slew Uldor, but all of the sons of Fëanor were wounded and they were forced to retreat to [[Mount Dolmed]]. The heavy loss led to the name of the battle thereafter: the [[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]] or the "Battle of Unnumbered Tears". Maglor and his brothers took to a wild woodland life in [[Ossiriand]].<ref>{{S|Fifth}}</ref>

Prior to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, one of the three [[Silmarils]] had been recovered from [[Iron Crown|Morgoth's Crown]].<ref>{{S|Beren}}</ref> From his parents [[Dior|Dior Eluchíl]] received the jewel and brought it to [[Doriath]]. True to their oath, the sons of Fëanor (led by [[Celegorm]]) demanded the Silmaril. When Dior refused to surrender it the brothers assaulted Thingol's ancient kingdom. [[Celegorm]], [[Caranthir]] and [[Curufin]] all fell, as did Dior and his wife, [[Nimloth of Doriath]]. But the three remaining brothers - Maglor, Maedhros, and [[Amrod]] - did not recover the Silmaril for [[Elwing]], the daughter of Dior and Nimloth, escaped.<ref>{{S|Doriath}}</ref>
[[File:Turner Mohan - Maglor's Fosterling.jpg|left|thumb|Maglor and Elrond]]
Eventually the three brothers heard tiding that [[Elwing]] possessed a Silmaril and dwelt at the [[Mouths of Sirion]]. Driven by their Oath, the remaining sons of Fëanor made a sudden attack upon the refugees of [[Gondolin]] and Doriath. However they were again thwarted for Elwing escaped with the Silmaril across the [[Belegaer|Sea]] to her husband [[Eärendil]]. Together they sailed into the [[Aman|West]] and their voyage would eventually cause the downfall of Morgoth. Meanwhile, [[Elrond]] and [[Elros]], Eärendil and Elwing's sons, captured in the battle, were adopted by Maglor, and it is said that love grew between them.
[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Maglor Casts a Silmaril into the Sea.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Maglor Casts a Silmaril into the Sea'']]
After Morgoth's fall the last two Silmarils were recovered from his Crown. By this time, only Maedhros and Maglor remained of Fëanor's sons. In weariness and loathing they demanded the jewels from [[Eönwë]], the herald of [[Manwë]]. Eönwë refused them the Silmarils due to their many evil deeds. Still driven, the two brothers crept into the camp of Eönwë and stole the jewels. Though they were caught Eönwë let them depart. Maedhros and Maglor each took one jewel but their evil deeds caused the holy Jewels to burn their skin. Maedhros in despair cast himself into a fiery fissure. Maglor, the last surviving son of Fëanor, threw his Silmaril into the Sea. Legend says that he still wanders the shores of the World, singing laments for his despair and regret.<ref>{{S|Earendil}}</ref>

==Etymology==
His [[father-name]] was '''''Kanafinwë''''', a name which in [[Quenya]] means "Strong-voiced [of] [[Finwë]]". It is derived from ''[[káno]]'', a noun which means "commander", added to the name of his grandfather.<ref>{{PM|Feanor}}, p. 352</ref> His [[Amilessë|mother-name]] was '''''[[Makalaurë]]'''''. In [[The Etymologies]] it is interpreted as "Gold-cleaver".<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, '''MAK-'''</ref> A possible explanation for this translation is given in [[The Shibboleth of Feanor]], where it is stated that the name might be a reference to his skill in harping, whose sound was golden.<ref>{{PM|Feanor}}, p. 353</ref>

== Genealogy ==
Names shown in ''italics'' are females.
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| MHT | | MIR |y| FIN |y| IND | | | | | | | | | | | | |MHT=[[Mahtan]]| MIR=''[[Míriel]]''|FIN=[[Finwë]]|IND=''[[Indis]]''}}
{{familytree| |!| | | | | |!| | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |}}
{{familytree| NRD |~|y|~| FEA | | FDS | | FNG | | IRM | | FRF | | |NRD=''[[Nerdanel]]''|FEA=[[Fëanor]]|FDS=''[[Findis]]''|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]|IRM=''[[Írimë]]''|FRF=[[Finarfin]]}}
{{familytree| |,|-|-|^|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| MDH | | MAG | | CEL | | CAR | | CUR | | AMD | | AMR |MDH=[[Maedhros]]|MAG='''MAGLOR'''|CEL=[[Celegorm]]|CAR=[[Caranthir]]|CUR=[[Curufin]]|AMD=[[Amrod]]|AMR=[[Amras]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CLB | | | | | | | | |CLB=[[Celebrimbor]]}}
{{familytree/end}}

==See also==
*[[:Category:Images of Maglor|Images of Maglor]]

==External links==
*[http://www.lotrplaza.com/showthread.php?40462-Nodens-and-Maglor Nodens and Maglor]

{{references}}

[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:Sons of Fëanor]]
[[Category:Sindarin names]]
[[Category:First Age characters]]
[[Category:Noldor]]
[[de:Maglor]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/noldor/maglor]]
[[fi:Maglor]]

File:U-yasuk - Balin - Lord of Moria.png

2015-06-17T19:14:05Z

Woolly Mammoth:

== Licensing ==
{{Copyright-permission|u-yasuk|http://u-yasuk.deviantart.com/|u-yasuk}}

[[Category:Images by U-yasuk]]
[[Category:Images of Balin]]

File:U-yasuk - Balin - Lord of Moria.png

2015-06-17T19:13:45Z

Woolly Mammoth:

Girion

2015-06-17T19:11:16Z

Woolly Mammoth: I only remove infobox images if they come from an adaptation

{{northmen infobox
| image=[[File:U-yasuk - Girion.png|250px]]
| name=Girion
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=[[Lord of Dale]]
| location=[[Dale]]
| affiliation=
| language=[[Dalish]]
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death={{TA|2770}}
| deathlocation=[[Dale]]
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=Unnamed wife
| children=Unnamed child; ancestor of [[Bard]] the Bowman
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=[[Necklace of Girion|Necklace]]
| weapons=
| steed=
}}

'''Girion''' (d. {{TA|2770}}<ref name="TA">{{App|TA}}</ref>) was the last Lord of [[Dale]].
==History==
Girion was a [[Men of Dale|Man of Dale]] and became lord of the city. Not much can be said about his life and rule, other than he had a wife, and at least one son.

He possessed a [[Necklace of Girion|Necklace]] made of five hundred emeralds. When the [[Dwarves of Erebor]] forged a coat of dwarf-linked rings, presumably of [[mithril]], for his eldest son, Girion gave the necklace to the Dwarves as a payment.<ref>{{H|Inside}}</ref>

He witnessed the arrival of [[Smaug]] when the [[Dragons|Dragon]] assaulted Dale and the neighboring [[Dwarves|dwarf]] realm of [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]]. Girion was killed during that event but his wife and child escaped down the [[River Running]].<ref name="Fire">{{H|14}}</ref>

==Legacy==
Many years later, his descendant [[Bard]] was still living in [[Lake-town|Esgaroth]]. He took revenge upon the dragon by slaying him with [[Black Arrow|an arrow]].<ref name="Fire"/> His Necklace was found among the dragon's hoard.

==Etymology==
Although the names of Dale are [[Norse]], ''Girion'' seems to be a [[Sindarin]] name. The meaning is not clear but the ''[[The Etymologies|Etymologies]]'' give a [[Noldorin]] [[Sundocarme|root]] GIR ("quiver, shudder"),<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, p. 358</ref> which might be related.

==Portrayal in adaptations==
{{Gallery
|title=Girion in adaptations
|height=150
|width=200
|File:The Hobbit - The Desolation of Smaug - Girion.jpg|Girion in ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]''
}}
'''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''
:Briefly seen in flashback to the [[Sack of Erebor]] in ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]'', Girion is portrayed by [[Luke Evans]], who also played Girion's descendant [[Bard]].<ref name=ComingSoon>[http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/12/09/84485-luke-evans-played-his-ancestor-girion-of-dale/ "Luke Evans played Bard’s ancestor, Girion of Dale"], theonering.net, 9 December 2013 (accessed 29 January 2014) </ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Northmen]]
[[Category:Rulers of Dale]]
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]
[[Category:Masculine names]]
[[de:Girion]]
[[fi:Girion]]

Lúthien

2015-06-17T18:55:01Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{sources|especially inspiration - isn't it always? Ederchil 01/03/12}}
{{expansion|Too short for someone so important - needs bulking up to accommodate so many images. -Mith 04/11/11}}
{{sindar infobox
| image=[[File:Aerankai - Lúthien.jpg|250px]]
| name=Lúthien
| pronun=
| othernames=''Tinúviel'' ([[Sindarin|S]])
| titles=Princess of Doriath
| position=
| location=[[Doriath]]; [[Tol Galen]]
| affiliation=[[Quest for the Silmaril]]
| language=[[Sindarin]]
| birth={{YT|1200}}
| birthlocation=[[Forest of Neldoreth]]
| rule=
| death={{FA|503}}
| deathlocation=[[Dor Firn-i-Guinar]], [[Ossiriand]]
| age=3,377
| notablefor=being the only [[Elf]] who was granted the [[Gift of Men]]
| house=
| parentage=[[Thingol]] ([[Elf]]) and [[Melian]] ([[Ainu]])
| siblings=
| spouse=[[Beren]]
| children=[[Dior]]
| gender=Female
| height=
| hair=Black
| eyes=Grey<ref name="Beren">{{S|Beren}}</ref>
| clothing=Blue raiment, sewn with golden flowers; shadowy cloak; appearance of [[Thuringwethil]]<ref name="Beren"/>
| weapons=Voice, enchantment
| steed=[[Huan]]
}}'''Lúthien Tinúviel''' ([[Sindarin|S]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈluːθjen tiˈnuːvjel]}}) was the only daughter of King [[Thingol]] of [[Doriath]] and [[Melian]] the [[Maia]]. She was said to be the fairest maiden to have ever lived (a description later shared also by [[Arwen]]).

== History ==
[[File:Alice Falto - Birth of Luthien.jpg|thumb|left|Alice Falto - ''Birth of Luthien'']]
Lúthien was born during the Second Age of the [[Chaining of Melkor]], and [[niphredil]] first grew at the moment of her birth. She would often dance in the woods, while her friend [[Daeron]], the minstrel of Thingol, would play his flute. Daeron came to love her, and while she enjoyed his company, she did not return his love.

===Quest for the Silmaril===

During such an occasion she was discovered by [[Beren]] as he wandered the woods of her father's kingdom, and instantly fell in love with her. Daeron chirped out a warning, and she hid. While he searched for her, he accidentally laid his hand on her arm. He caught her alone some months later, and they grew to love one another. When Lúthien took Beren before her father, he was appalled that his royal daughter should wish to wed a mortal, and as is recounted in the ''[[Lay of Leithian]]'' so set Beren what he thought was an unachievable task, to recover a [[Silmaril]] from the [[Iron Crown]] of [[Morgoth]] himself. So Beren left Doriath in pursuit of his hopeless quest.
[[File:Jacek Kopalski - Beren and Lúthien.jpg|Jacek Kopalski - ''Beren and Lúthien''|thumb|left]]
After a time, a darkness fell on Lúthien's heart, and she learned from her mother Melian what this meant; Beren had been captured by [[Sauron]], and was held in the dungeons of [[Tol-in-Gaurhoth]]. Though Thingol sought to stop her, Lúthien set out from Doriath to rescue Beren, if she could. Passing through many adventures, she gained the help of [[Huan the Hound]], and together they came to [[Tol-in-Gaurhoth|Sauron's Isle]]. She nearly fell to the force of Sauron's hatred alone, but through her magic and Huan's strength they defeated Sauron and rescued Beren. Eventually Beren set out for [[Angband]] once again, but this time Lúthien accompanied him.

Through Lúthien's powers, they passed the gates of Angband, and the great wolf [[Carcharoth]] that guarded them. Coming before the [[Dark Throne]] itself, Morgoth prepared to have both of them captured and killed, but Lúthien wove a spell and conducted a dance that put even Morgoth and his court into a deep sleep, and Beren cut a Silmaril from the Iron Crown. Returning to the gates, they found that Carcharoth barred their escape. Beren held up the hallowed jewel to protect them, but the monstrous wolf bit off his hand and, with it, consumed the Silmaril. But the Silmarils were blessed by [[Varda]] herself, so that any unclean flesh that touched them would be withered and burnt. The wolf's innards were consumed with that burning, and it ran howling into the south.

[[File:Mareishon - Beren and Luthien.jpg|300px|thumb|Mareishon - ''Beren and Lúthien'']]
Lúthien healed Beren, and they came at last back to her father's halls at [[Menegroth]]. There they heard tidings that the maddened wolf had entered Thingol's realm, and Beren set out with the King to the [[Hunting of the Wolf]]. After nightfall they returned; the wolf was slain and the Silmaril recovered, but Beren and Huan both were wounded mortally. Both passed away shortly after returning, and soon after Lúthien too wasted of grief.

===Aftermath and death===
Their spirits were gathered in the [[Halls of Mandos]] in the [[Uttermost West]], and there Lúthien sang a song of such extraordinary power and beauty that it moved even the implacable heart of [[Mandos]] himself. So she was granted a unique fate, to become mortal and return to [[Middle-earth]] with Beren, where they dwelt for a time in happiness on the green island of [[Tol Galen]] in the River [[Adurant]].

After the destruction of [[Doriath]] Beren participated in battle for the last time. He ambushed the routed dwarves, and in the process also acquired the Silmaril he once took from Morgoth's crown. He brought the Silmaril, which was inside the [[Nauglamir]], to Lúthien, and she wore it until the day she and Beren died of old age. It is said that their deaths came quicker than expected because of the Silmaril. After their death, the Silmaril was passed to their son [[Dior]], which caused in the [[Second Kinslaying]].

===Final Death of Beren and Lúthien===

Among the Children of [[Ilúvatar]] the final death of Beren and Lúthien is accounted in {{FA|503}} for in that year Dior received the Silmaril in Doriath, and it was taken as a sign of his parents' death. In truth the date of their death is unknown.<ref>{{LR|Quenta}}, p. 306</ref>

== Etymology ==

''Lúthien'' is a [[Sindarin]] name meaning "Daughter of Flowers". The first element in the name is ''[[lúth]]''.<ref>{{PE|17}}, p. 15</ref> The second element is perhaps the feminine ending ''[[-ien]]''.

In early writings, [[Doriathrin]] ''Luthien'' and [[Noldorin]] ''Lhūthien'' meant "enchantress", deriving from [[Primitive Quendian]] ''luktiēnē'' ("enchantress"; from [[Sundocarme|root]] LUK "magic, enhantement").<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, '''LUK'''</ref>

''[[Tinúviel]]'' (from Primitive Quendian ''tindōmiselde'') means "Nightingale", or, more literally, "Daughter of Twilight".<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, '''SEL-D'''</ref><ref>{{PE|19}}, p. 73</ref>

== Genealogy ==
{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| | ELU |y| MEL | | BEO | | | |ELU=[[Thingol|Elu Thingol]]|MEL=[[Melian]]|BEO=[[House of Bëor]]}}
{{familytree| | | | |!| | | | | |!| | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | LUT |~|y|~| BER | | | |LUT='''LÚTHIEN'''|BER=[[Beren]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | DIO |y| NIM | | |DIO=[[Dior]]|NIM=[[Nimloth of Doriath|Nimloth]]}}
{{familytree| | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| EAR |y| ELW | | ELD | | ELU |EAR=[[Eärendil]]|ELW=[[Elwing]]|ELD=[[Eluréd]]|ELU=[[Elurín]]}}
{{familytree| |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| ELR | | ELS | | | | | | | | |ELR=[[Elrond]]|ELS=[[Elros]]}}
{{familytree/end}}

==Inspiration==
Lúthien was largely inspired from [[Edith Bratt]] and Tolkien often referred to Edith as "my [[Lúthien]]."<ref>{{L|340}}</ref> It is mentioned that around [[1917]], while Tolkien and Bratt went walking in the woods at Roos, Edith began to dance for him in a clearing among the flowering hemlock. This incident inspired the account of the meeting of Beren and Lúthien.<ref>Peter Gilliver, Jeremy Marshall & Edmund Weiner ''[[The Ring of Words]]''</ref>

The tale also shares the common element of folktales with the disapproving parent who sets a seemingly impossible task for the suitor, which is then fulfilled. The Welsh tale of Culhwch and Olwen is one such story.

The travel of Lúthien to Mandos and softening Námo with her song, in order to release her beloved, is a usual theme in mythology and religion: the Greek tale (as told by Virgil) of Orpheus and Eurydice, the Japanese myth of Izanagi and Izanami, the Akkadian/Sumerian myth of Inanna's descent to the Underworld, the Mayan myth of Ix Chel and Itzamna, the Indian legend of Savitri, and the Nez Perce legends of the trickster Coyote.

==Other versions of the legendarium==

When this character first appeared in the ''[[Lost Tales]]'', her only name was ''Tinúviel''.<ref>{{LT2|1}}, p. 41</ref> The idea that the name ''Tinúviel'' was given to her by Beren emerged in the early ''[[Lays of Beleriand]]'', along with her birth name ''Lúthien'' (although at first Tolkien tentatively gave her the birth name of ''[[Melilot Brandybuck#Other versions of the legendarium|Melilot]]'').<ref>{{LB|3}}, p. 159, 179-180</ref>

Before this name was assigned to the elf-maid, the name ''Lúthien'' was connected with ''[[Luthany]]'', the Elfin name for England.<ref>{{LT2|VI}}, p. 313</ref> In several very early drafts of unfinished stories, ''Lúthien'' was the Elfin name of [[Ælfwine]], translated first as "wanderer" and later as "friend".<ref>{{LT2|VI}}, p. 301-4</ref>

== See Also ==
* [[:Category:Images of Lúthien|Images of Lúthien]].
{{references}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Luthien Tinuviel}}
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]
[[Category:House of Thingol]]
[[Category:Quest for the Silmaril]]
[[de:Lúthien]]
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/teleri/sindar/luthien]]
[[fi:Lúthien]]

Girion

2015-06-17T18:39:37Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{northmen infobox
| image=[[File:U-yasuk - Girion.png|250px]]
| name=Girion
| pronun=
| othernames=
| titles=
| position=[[Lord of Dale]]
| location=[[Dale]]
| affiliation=
| language=[[Dalish]]
| birth=
| birthlocation=
| rule=
| death={{TA|2770}}
| deathlocation=[[Dale]]
| age=
| notablefor=
| house=
| parentage=
| siblings=
| spouse=Unnamed wife
| children=Unnamed child; ancestor of [[Bard]] the Bowman
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=[[Necklace of Girion|Necklace]]
| weapons=
| steed=
}}

'''Girion''' (d. {{TA|2770}}<ref name="TA">{{App|TA}}</ref>) was the last Lord of [[Dale]].
==History==
Girion was a [[Men of Dale|Man of Dale]] and became lord of the city. Not much can be said about his life and rule, other than he had a wife, and at least one son.

He possessed a [[Necklace of Girion|Necklace]] made of five hundred emeralds. When the [[Dwarves of Erebor]] forged a coat of dwarf-linked rings, presumably of [[mithril]], for his eldest son, Girion gave the necklace to the Dwarves as a payment.<ref>{{H|Inside}}</ref>

He witnessed the arrival of [[Smaug]] when the [[Dragons|Dragon]] assaulted Dale and the neighboring [[Dwarves|dwarf]] realm of [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]]. Girion was killed during that event but his wife and child escaped down the [[River Running]].<ref name="Fire">{{H|14}}</ref>

==Legacy==
Many years later, his descendant [[Bard]] was still living on [[Lake-town|Esgaroth]]. He took revenge upon the dragon by slaying him with [[Black Arrow|an arrow]].<ref name="Fire"/> His Necklace was found among the dragon's hoard.

==Etymology==
Although the names of Dale are [[Norse]], ''Girion'' seems to be a [[Sindarin]] name. The meaning is not clear but the ''[[The Etymologies|Etymologies]]'' give a [[Noldorin]] [[Sundocarme|root]] GIR ("quiver, shudder"),<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, p. 358</ref> which might be related.

==Portrayal in adaptations==
'''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''
:Briefly seen in flashback to the [[Sack of Erebor]] in ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]'', Girion is portrayed by [[Luke Evans]], who also played Girion's descendant [[Bard]].<ref name=ComingSoon>[http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/12/09/84485-luke-evans-played-his-ancestor-girion-of-dale/ "Luke Evans played Bard’s ancestor, Girion of Dale"], theonering.net, 9 December 2013 (accessed 29 January 2014) </ref>

{{references}}
[[Category:Northmen]]
[[Category:Rulers of Dale]]
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]
[[Category:Masculine names]]
[[de:Girion]]
[[fi:Girion]]

Category:Images of Girion

2015-06-17T18:39:00Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{main|Girion}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Girion}}

[[Category:Images of Men of Dale]]
[[Category:Images of characters in The Hobbit]]

Dáin Ironfoot

2015-06-17T18:37:42Z

Woolly Mammoth:

{{disambig-two|the successor of [[Thorin|Thorin II Oakenshield]]|earlier King of Durin's Folk|[[Dáin I]]}}
{{dwarves infobox
| image=[[File:U-yasuk - Dáin Ironfoot.png|250px]]
| name=Dáin Ironfoot
| pronun=
| othernames=Dáin II
| titles=[[Lord of the Iron Hills]] [[Kings of Durin's Folk|King of Durin's Folk]] [[King under the Mountain]]
| position=
| location=[[Iron Hills]] [[Lonely Mountain]]
| affiliation=
| language=[[Khuzdul]] and [[Westron]]
| birth={{TA|2767}}
| birthlocation=[[Iron Hills]]
| rule={{TA|2805}}-{{TA|2941|n}} (Lord) {{TA|2941}}-{{TA|3019|n}} (King)
| death=[[17 March]] {{TA|3019}}
| deathlocation=[[Battle of Dale]]
| age=252
| notablefor=
| house=[[Durin's line]]
| parentage=[[Náin (son of Grór)|Náin]]
| siblings=
| spouse=
| children=[[Thorin Stonehelm]]
| gender=Male
| height=
| hair=
| eyes=
| clothing=
| weapons=
| steed=
}}
{{Pronounce|Dain.mp3|Ardamir}}
'''Dáin II''' or '''Dáin Ironfoot''' ([[Third Age]] 2767 – 3019, aged 252 years) was the [[Lord of the Iron Hills]] and [[King under the Mountain]]. In his life, he fought in the [[Battle of Azanulbizar]], the [[Battle of Five Armies]] and the [[Battle of Dale]]. He was renowned as a warrior across Middle-earth.<ref name="Erebor">{{UT|Erebor}}</ref>

==History==
===Early Life===
Dáin was born in {{TA|2767}} in the [[Iron Hills]], the son of [[Náin (son of Grór)|Náin]], during the reign of his grandfather [[Grór]].<ref name="Durin">{{App|Durin}}</ref>

===War of the Dwarves and Orcs===
[[File:Liz Danforth - Dain and Azog.png|thumb|left|200px|Liz Danforth - ''Dáin and Azog'']]

After the murder of [[Thrór]] by [[Azog]] in {{TA|2790}}, his son [[Thráin II]] swore revenge. He summoned all available Dwarves, and sacked every Orc stronghold in the [[Misty Mountains]], battling his way to [[Moria]]. There, the [[Battle of Azanulbizar]] raged before the gate of the ancient Dwarf stronghold.

[[Náin (son of Grór)|Náin]] and his son Dáin arrived late in the battle, but proved pivotal. Fresh and well equipped, they drove through the Orc forces, until at last Náin confronted Azog. But Náin was weary and filled with anger, and Azog strong and agile. He darted from the dwarf's blows, and when the warrior stumbled, Azog hewed and broke his neck. However, all across the valley, his troops were in retreat. He tried to escape back inside, but he was followed by Dáin who with his red axe, hewed off his head before the doors of the East-Gate. He was a very young Dwarf at thirty-two at the time, and it was heralded as a magnificent feat.

After the battle King [[Thráin II]] wanted to enter Moria as his own. But Dáin dissuaded him, because he alone looked past the gate into Moria, and had the wisdom to know that it was impossible for Durin's folk to return at that time because of [[Durin's Bane]].<ref name="Durin"/>

=== Lord of the Iron Hills ===
Dáin returned to the Halls of Grór with his people, and with his father dead, became [[Lord of the Iron Hills]] at his grandfather's death in {{TA|2805}}. He had one son, [[Thorin Stonehelm|Thorin]], born in {{TA|2866}}.<ref name="Durin"/>

During his reign his people became the strongest in [[Rhovanion|Wilderland]], being the only realm capable to resist [[Sauron]] if he dared come North and retake the realm of [[Angmar]] and the northern passes of the [[Misty Mountains]].<ref name="Erebor"/>

===The Battle of Five Armies===
[[File:Angus McBride - Dain II.jpg|thumb|right|[[Angus McBride]] - ''Dáin'']]
Nearly a hundred years later, King [[Thorin]], the son of [[Thráin II]], set out on a journey to reclaim [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor, the Lonely Mountain]], which had been usurped by the [[Dragons|Dragon]] [[Smaug]].<ref>{{H|Party}}</ref>

The dragon was slain, though by [[Bard]] of [[Lake-town]] and not by Thorin's company. Thorin claimed the entire hoard and proclaimed himself [[King under the Mountain]], but both Bard and the Elven king [[Thranduil]] both longed for compensation of their suffering caused by the Dragon. Because his company of thirteen could not hold the mountain, Thorin sent for Dáin.<ref>{{H|Gathering}}</ref>

Dáin responded to Thorin's call and set out with more than five hundred dwarves, well armed and experienced. They were originally intent on driving off the Elves and Men, but [[Gandalf]] arrived to inform them of the approaching Orcs and [[Wargs]]. They all united against the common enemy, and so was fought the [[Battle of Five Armies]] in the valley of [[Dale]].<ref>{{H|Burst}}</ref>

Thorin was killed in the battle, as were his sister-sons [[Kíli]] and [[Fíli]]. This made Dáin the next in line to become [[King under the Mountain]], and King of all of Durin's folk.<ref>{{H|Return}}</ref>

===King under the Mountain===
During his reign as king, he became exceedingly rich and his people were very prosperous. The town of [[Dale]] was rebuilt and its border stretched far to the South and East and the friendship between the [[Elves of Mirkwood]], [[Men of Dale]], and [[Dwarves of Erebor]] was close, especially between the Men and Dwarves. For the [[Dwarves of Erebor]] now exceeded all their ancestors in the art of masonry and mining, and created many beautiful things in Dale.<ref>{{FR|Meetings}}</ref>

But not all were content. [[Balin]] set out with several others to reclaim Moria in {{TA|2989}}. Dáin did not give the expedition his blessing, and could not dissuade them.<ref name="Council">{{FR|Council}}</ref> It was only later learned the colony was destroyed after five years.<ref>{{FR|Bridge}}</ref>

===War of the Ring===
In {{TA|3018}}, a messenger came from Mordor, enquiring about a creature named "[[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]]" from "[[the Shire|Shire]]". In return for information Dáin would be given the last three [[Dwarf-rings]]. Dáin told him to give him time to think and for many weeks he pondered until he sent [[Glóin]] and his son [[Gimli]] to [[Elrond]] for council, and to warn Bilbo of the enemy looking for him.<ref name="Council"/>

After many months war came to Erebor in the [[Battle of Dale]]. King [[Brand]] of Dale was at war with [[Easterlings]] along the River [[Carnen]], but they defeated him and he retreated back to Dale where he was given aid by Dáin and an army of Dwarves. After three days of fighting the Dwarves and Men were driven back, and Brand was slain. But defending his body stood Dáin, who at over 250 years old was not feeble, and still could wield his axe with great skill. But his skill was not enough and he was slain as well before the gates of Erebor.<ref name="Erebor"/>

Several days later the Easterlings learned that the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]] was lost and they were afraid. When the new King [[Thorin Stonehelm|Thorin III Stonehelm]], son of Dáin, and Brand's son [[Bard II]] saw this they came out of the mountain and routed their enemies.<ref name="Great">{{App|Great}}</ref>

==Etymology and names==
''Dáinn'' is a dwarf from the ''[[Völuspá|Dvergatal]]''. His name most likely means "Deadlike".<ref>Chester Nathan Gould, "Dwarf-Names: A Study in Old Icelandic Religion", published in ''Publications of the Modern Language Association of America'', Vol 44 (1929), issue #4, pp. 939-967</ref>

The epithet ''Ironfoot'' remains unexplained in the published writings of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]. However, [[John D. Rateliff]] has pointed out that an explanation for the epithet is likely found in the original manuscript of ''[[The Hobbit]]'', where it is stated that the shoes of the Dwarves of the Iron Hills were of iron.<ref>{{HM|RB}}, p. 674 (note 12)</ref>

== Genealogy ==
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;">{{familytree/start}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | NAI | | | | | | | | |NAI=[[Náin II]] ''{{TA|2338|n}} - {{TA|2585|n}}''}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | DAI | | | | | | | | | | | | BOR | | | | | | |DAI=[[Dáin I]] ''{{TA|2440|n}} - {{TA|2589|n}}''†| BOR=[[Borin]] ''{{TA|2450|n}} - {{TA|2711|n}}''}}
{{familytree| | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | THR | | FRO | | GRO | | | | | | | | FAR | | | | | | |THR=[[Thrór]] ''{{TA|2542|n}} - {{TA|2790|n}}''†|FRO=[[Frór]] ''{{TA|2552|n}} - {{TA|2589|n}}''†|GRO=[[Grór]] ''{{TA|2563|n}} - {{TA|2805|n}}''|FAR=[[Farin]] ''{{TA|2560|n}} - {{TA|2803|n}}''}}
{{familytree| | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | |,|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|.| | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | THR | | | | | | NAI | | | | FUN | | | | | | GRO | | |THR=[[Thráin II]] ''{{TA|2644|n}} - {{TA|2850|n}}''†|NAI=[[Náin (son of Grór)|Náin]] ''{{TA|2665|n}} - {{TA|2799|n}}''†|FUN=[[Fundin]] ''{{TA|2662|n}} - {{TA|2799|n}}''†|GRO=[[Gróin]] ''{{TA|2671|n}} - {{TA|2923|n}}''}}
{{familytree| | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}
{{familytree| | THO | | FRE | | DIS | | DAI | | BAL | | DWA | | OIN | | GLO |THO=[[Thorin|Thorin II Oakenshield]] ''{{TA|2746|n}} - {{TA|2941|n}}''†|FRE=[[Frerin]] ''{{TA|2751|n}} - {{TA|2799|n}}''†|DIS=[[Dís]] ''b. {{TA|2760|n}}''|BAL=[[Balin]] ''{{TA|2763|n}} - {{TA|2994|n}}''†|DWA=[[Dwalin]] ''{{TA|2772|n}} - {{FoA|91}}''|OIN=[[Óin]] ''{{TA|2774|n}} - {{TA|2994|n}}''|GLO=[[Glóin]] ''{{TA|2783|n}} - {{FoA|15}}''|DAI=[[Dáin Ironfoot|DAIN II IRONFOOT]] ''{{TA|2767|n}} - {{TA|3019|n}}''†}}
{{familytree| | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | FIL | | KIL | | THO | | | | | | | | | | | | | | GIM |FIL=[[Fíli]] ''{{TA|2859|n}} - {{TA|2941|n}}''†|KIL=[[Kíli]] ''{{TA|2864|n}} - {{TA|2941|n}}''†|THO=[[Thorin Stonehelm|Thorin III Stonehelm]] ''b. {{TA|2866|n}}''|GIM=[[Gimli]] ''{{TA|2879|n}} - {{FoA|120}}''+}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | DUR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUR=[[Durin VII]]}}
{{familytree/end}}
</div>

==Portrayal in adaptations==
<gallery>
File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Dáin Ironfoot.jpg|Dáin from ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''
File:The Hobbit - The Battle of the Five Armies - Dáin.jpg|Dáin in ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]''</gallery>

===Films===
'''1977: [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]:'''
:Dáin is said to come to Thorin's aid, but he is never individually identified. It's possible that he's the Dwarf who lays [[Orcrist]] on Thorin's body after he dies, as that Dwarf does not resemble any of the other 12 members of Thorin's company.

''''2012-14 [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''
:Dáin Ironfoot is played by [[Billy Connolly]].<ref>name="BBCCasting1">{{webcite|articleurl=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-16960081|articlename=Billy Connolly lands dwarf role in The Hobbit|dated=9-Feb-2012|website=BBC|accessed=9-Feb-2012}}</ref> After the [[Elves]] of Mirkwood occupy [[Dale]], [[Thorin]] secretly sends out a raven to Dáin. The next day, just as Thranduil is about to start his attack, Dáin arrives unexpectedly at [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]] mounted on a large, armoured boar and leading an army of [[Dwarves]]. He tells the Elves and [[Men]] to withdraw or face his attack. After trading insults with Thranduil, Dáin prepares to attack, but the [[Orcs|Orc]] Army suddenly arrives, and he leads his Dwarves to attack the Orcs instead. Following their example, the Elves join the Dwarves, fighting side by side with them. When [[Thorin and Co.]] charge out of the mountain, Dáin and his army rally behind them and drive back the Orcs from the mountain. Later he and Thorin embrace in the midst of the battle.

===Radio series===
'''1968: [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]]:'''
:Dáin's voice is provided by [[Brian Haines]].<ref>Radio Times, Volume 181, No. 2349, [[14 November|November 14]], [[1968]]</ref>

'''1979: [[The Hobbit (1979 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''
:No actor is credited for the role of Dáin.

===Games===
'''2001-07: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Trading Card Game]]'':'''
:[[Weta Workshop|Weta]] made a special card for Dáin.

[[File:Dain BFMEII.png|250px|thumb|right|''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II|The Battle for Middle-earth II]]''.]]
'''2003: [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]:'''
:Dáin has no speaking part; he only appears on parchment sections.

'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''
:Dáin is a hero in the Dwarves faction. In the campaigns, he appears in the Battle of Dale in the Good Campaign, where he has to survive the onslaught of enemy forces to succeed the level.

{{references}}
{{seq-start}}
{{seq-head
| race=dwarf
| name=Dáin II
| house=[[House of Durin]]
| born={{TA|2767}}
| died={{TA|3019}}
}}
{{seq
| prev=[[Grór]]
| list=[[Lord of the Iron Hills]]
| dates={{TA|2805}} – {{TA|2941|n}}
| nvac=Himself
| next=as King
}}
{{seq
| prow=2
| prev=[[Thorin|Thorin II Oakenshield]]
| list=[[Kings of Durin's Folk|King]] of [[Durin's Folk]]
| dates={{TA|2941}} – {{TA|3019|n}}
| next=[[Thorin Stonehelm|Thorin III Stonehelm]]
| nrow=2
}}
{{seq
| list=5th [[King under the Mountain]]
| dates={{TA|2941}} – {{TA|3019|n}}
}}
{{seq-end}}

[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:Longbeards]]
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]
[[de:Dáin II.]]
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:nains:3a:dain_ii]]
[[fi:Dáin II]]