Shagrats had 80 orc under his Cammand and Gorbag had 40 I think in case you wanted to make a battle Info box —Unsigned comment by 72.228.49.45 (talk • contribs).
- If you can just let me know where in the books that information is found I would be happy to add it. --Hyarion 20:23, 4 September 2007 (EDT)
I was wrong Gorbag had 80 twice as many of the orcs that went with shagrat who had 40 with him but more in the tower there we more the Chapter is The Tower of Cirith Ungol in The 3rd book. Shagrat survied and snaga was killed after the bad guys and also snaga said gorbags orcs reached the gate first so some could have got out and weren't seen by Sam however unlikely.
Suggestion for title
How about we call this the "Cirith Ungol riots" or "Orc-riot at Cirith Ungol", seeing as this was more of a dispute gone horribly wrong than a straight-forward battle? EldritchNexus 18:34, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
- Disagree. On the basis that it would be harder to readers to find the article. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:50, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
- A fair argument. Though don't we have redirect links for that? EldritchNexus 00:15, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
Battle?
Ar-Zigûr (talk) 14:32, 12 October 2024 (UTC): I think it's too pompous to call such a brawl as a 'battle'. Are there any textual evidences that the exact term 'Battle of Cirith Ungol' was actually used in Tolkien's books? If not, then I suppose the article should be renamed to something like 'Revolt/Mutiny in the Tower of Cirith Ungol', since two Orcs of Mordor refer to its participants as 'rebel Uruk-hai' exactly in the context of the Tower of Cirith Ungol's fiasco.
- Tolkien does use the capitalized term “Quarrel” in an earlier draft. Maybe the page could be renamed to that or even “Quarrel (Tower of Cirith Ungol)”? The term is used in the second chapter of part one of Sauron Defeated. In my opinion, I think it would be better to use an earlier term by Tolkien used to describe the event than a term not used by him at all.Dour1234 (talk) 23:21, 12 October 2024 (UTC)
- Ar-Zigûr (talk) 07:00, 13 October 2024 (UTC): Agreed! It seems to me that 'Quarrel' fits perfectly for the event.
- I disagree. The choice of the word battle in the title of the page should be made based on an analysis how J.R.R. Tolkien used the word battle in his published writings in various contexts. J.R.R. Tolkien used the word battle even for armed conflicts or potential armed conflicts between rather small numbers of peoples. In the Battle of the Tower of Cirith Ungol at least "about forty" Orcs commanded by Shagrat fought against a "more than twice as large" force commanded by Gorbag (in the chapter The Tower of Cirith Ungol). In the chapter The White Rider "songs would still be sung of the Battle of the Peak" (only Gandalf against Durin's Bane, one against one). In Appendix B in the entry TA 3019, November 3 "Battle of Bywater, and Passing of Saruman", in the chapter The Scouring of the Shire "So ended the Battle of Bywater" and in the chapter The Grey Havens "after hearing the news of the Battle of Bywater" ("close to a hundred" ruffians against "a hundred strong" Tooks and some more Hobbits) . Éomer says in the Rider of Rohan: "Loth am I to begin a battle of one hundred against three". In the chapter Treebeard "wandered down to the battle of the Orcs and the Riders of Rohan". A term used in notes by J.R.R. Tolkien for himself to develop the chronology for Appendix B that was not used in LOTR is not relevant. I was surprised that the first issue in the discussion is the name of the page when the content of the page does not confirm with the standards of Tolkien Gateway, lacks references (e.g. for the more than 80 Ocrs) and lacks page numbers for the 50th anniversary edition of LOTR and when the content may has not been checked if it is supported by the sources and if content is not missing (e.g. the size of Shagrat's force). --Akhôrahil (talk) 12:54, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
- Ar-Zigûr (talk) 07:00, 13 October 2024 (UTC): Agreed! It seems to me that 'Quarrel' fits perfectly for the event.