Talk:Nelwë

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Should this article be merged with the one on Elmo? I think it should. - IvarTheBoneless 13:02, 23 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I do not think that the article on Nelwë should be merged with the article on Elmo, because J.R.R. Tolkien never wrote that Nelwë and Elmo are the same person or that Nelwë was an alternative name for the same person or a translation of the name Elmo. The rough note in the top margin of the cover page where Celeborn's kinship from Nelwë, a younger brother of Olwë and Elwë was mentioned was struck through (i.e. rejected by J.R.R. Tolkien). Kinship means that Celeborn was related to Nelwë, so we do not even know if Celeborn was the son of Nelwë, the grandson of Nelwë or even more distantly related to Nelwë. In addition, in other versions of the history of Celeborn, Celeborn is either the son (The Nature of Middle-earth chapter XVIII Elvish Ages & Númenórean) or in later writing the grandson of Elmo, who is a younger brother of Elwë (Thingol) (The Nature of Middle-earth chapter XVI Galadriel and Celeborn Text 1 Concerning Galadriel & Celeborn). However, I think that it should be mentioned in the article on Nelwë that J.R.R. Tolkien struck through this note. --Akhorahil 13:36, 23 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sometimes we can clearly trace the evolution of a character through various names - e.g. Finrod became Finarfin and Inglor became Finrod, but we don't treat the earlier names as separate characters (what a naming headache that would be), because the later names belong to characters who do largely the same things in largely the same stories as the characters with the earlier names. I think it's pretty clear that Nelwë and Elmo serve the same purpose, that is, to be a minor sibling of Elwë from whom Celeborn descends, but neither of them do anything or feature in any stories, so I don't know how conclusive we can be in identifying them. At the least I think it would be justified to add a "see also" that notes the similarity in function. I guess a broader question is, "does every minor character from NOME need their own page?" --Mord 05:03, 25 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

After additional thought and reviewing NOME: I've made up my mind in favor of merging Nelwë into Elmo. --Mord 23:18, 28 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Any further thoughts on the matter from anyone? - IvarTheBoneless 18:15, 30 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

At first sight, it totally looks like they are the same character. These are the kind of things that are commented by the book's editor; didn't Hostteter say anything about it? I'd like to study the matter myself, but you can go ahead. --LorenzoCB 18:45, 30 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would be in favour of merging and including Nelwë within OVOTL with clear notes that whilst Tolkien never wrote that Nelwë > Elmo it is likely that Nelwë occupied the same position within Celeborn’s genealogy.

On a different note, if the pages are not merged then Earwen needs to be correctly amended to daughter of Olwë and not a sibling as the family tree here appears to indicate. JR Snow 09:40, 31 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]