Latest comment: 8 October 2024 by JR Snow in topic "Secret Fire" in Letter #212
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"Secret Fire" in Letter #212
The article claims that "only Eru as Creator could command the Secret Fire". This claim is supported quoting 'Letter #212'. However, at least I seem to be not able to find a respective statement in that letter. Dreisam (talk) 21:09, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
The One rebuked Aulë, saying that he had tried to usurp the Creator's power; but he could not give independent life to his makings. He had only one life, his own derived from the One, and could at most only distribute it. 'Behold' said the One: 'these creatures of thine have only thy will, and thy movement. Though you have devised a language for them, they can only report to thee thine own thought. This is a mockery of me.'
- Emphasis mine. Hope this helps! --Mord 00:53, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. So your quote supports the concept of the single and exclusive creative power of Eru Ilúvatar. The sentence doesn't say anything about the Secret Fire, though.--Dreisam (talk) 06:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- He [Melkor] had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame; for desire grew hot within him to bring into Being things of his own, and it seemed to him that Ilúvatar took no thought for the Void, and he was impatient of its emptiness. Yet he found not the Fire, for it is with Ilúvatar.
- - The Silmarillion, 'Ainulindale', 5th paragraph; also found in Morgoth's Ring, p. 9 IvarTheBoneless (talk) 11:53, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you, again. But those words from the Ainulindale D have not much to do with my concern to quote one of Tolkien's Letters to support an assumption about the Secret Fire, while that Letter actually does not mention the Secret Fire at all. Thus, I would still recommend removing that Letter-Quotation.--Dreisam (talk) 12:52, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hello Dreisam, "the Creator's power" and Eru's 'Secret Fire' are one and the same, there is no doubt about that.
- Claiming otherwise is akin to stating that a source mentioning Olorin isn't relevant to Gandalf. JR Snow (talk) 13:06, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. So your quote supports the concept of the single and exclusive creative power of Eru Ilúvatar. The sentence doesn't say anything about the Secret Fire, though.--Dreisam (talk) 06:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)