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I'll use this second sandbox more for messing around with actual boxes and tables and such that could become templates, instead of just writing down ideas and to-do notes.

Userboxes

Language userboxes

Goal here is to mass-produce more language ability userboxes. Adding userboxes for so many languages might seem like overkill, but might as well be prepared if there's ever an increase in editing (maybe after the next Jackson-produced films). And there ought to be some for Portuguese, Russian, Chinese, and Finnish speakers given the interwiki sites, and based on the languages I see discussed on the TG and VL Discords, which would add Polish, Norwegian, maybe Hungarian.

As for the rest, as a rough measure I tallied the numbers of translated works in Translations and included all languages with 10 or more translated works. I included Welsh, Latin, Old English, Old Norse, and Gothic since they are all relevant to legendarium languages. I threw in Ancient Hebrew, Ancient Greek and Sanskrit over more obscure connections. Finally I included Quenya and Sindarin, totalling 32 (33 if counting two varieties of Portuguese). I used similar rationales for the 10 written language userboxes. Since ing hat added more spoken language userboxes and written, based on nationality ates, I've n, and the defunct Persian-language interwiki affiliate.)

These are based on the userboxes at wikipedia:Wikipedia:Babel/List and wikipedia:Wikipedia:Userboxes/Language/Written.

I don't know any of these languages, and copy-pasted them from the above lists circa 6 April 2025. They'll need to be reviewed by their respective language-speakers before being placed in Tolkien Gateway:Userboxes. I wouldn't know if any of the ones from Wikipedia have errors or just poorly written. On top of that, there's the question of rewriting them to more closely translate the phraseology of Tolkien Gateway's userboxes ("This person has an X understanding of Y language") or Wikipedia's ("This user can contribute with an X level of Y language"). It might be that the various userboxes across Wikipedia's Babel were probably written at different times that used different standards, and many not updated when others were.

Other quirks:

  • Sometimes userboxes are randomly italicized, sometimes different sections of text are bolded, and I'm not able to tell if that's a mistake or reflects something to do with the language. I've removed the random italicizations but not the weird bolds.
  • Sometimes a different color code will be used, usually with xx-3 as green and xx-5 darker shades of red. I've standardized the color code except for a generic example.
  • The Japanese userboxes have a translation into English, but only for the jp-N level.
  • Many boxes have both genders represented in the line of text, and perhaps in the original userboxes detect the user's gender declared on their User page (ROOTPAGENAME) to select one or the other.
  • The Chinese seems to have both simplified and traditional characters on separate lines.
  • The Serbian has Cyrillic and Latin script on separate lines.
  • Often there's a horizontal rule that I can't get to work with either ---- or <hr />.
  • I have a lot of trouble editing the right-to-left Hebrew text, and made a mess of it.
  • Some userboxes are missing. For dead languages this often makes sense (and would make sense for Quenya and Sindarin), but there's also the case of ko-5.

On Wikipedia's, the ISO 639 code in the ID links to the Wikipedia page for that language, the bolded proficiency level links to a Category page for users with that proficiency level, and the bolded language name links to a Category page for all users with any proficiency level. I've stuck to Tolkien Gateway's standard, linking the language name to the Wikipedia page for that language, and the ISO 639 code to the Category page for users with that proficiency level. If I did it Wikipedia's way, the external link symbol would be in he ID box, where it looks weird. (Wikipedia's does not include the appended "-#" as part of the hyperlink.) Wikipedia's also removes the "-N" from the ID box for native speakers, but I've kept that.

First I'll show 6 sample columns of userboxes, 3 for languages and 3 for written languages, showing different color codes I've seen for both types of userboxes. Then I'll show the 33 language and 10 script userboxes (as well as one for IPA and one more). For the 6 languages that already have userboxes, I'll show those in their current form before how they would look updated to the standard color code and phraseology of Wikipedia's.

It might be that most TG users would want to keep the 6-level scheme they've been using (xx-0, xx-1, xx-2, xx-3, xx-4, xx-N) instead of Wikipedia's current 7-level (xx-0, xx-1, xx-2, xx-3, xx-4, xx-5, xx-N), in which case the xx-5 userbox for new languages can just be discarded, and colors switched to those in the 6-level scheme. At first I was worried moving from a 6-level scheme to a 7-level scheme would cause those with {{user xx-4}} to seem "knocked down" from full non-native proficiency to nearly-full, but it turns out xx-4 is "near-native" in both the 6-level and the 7-level.

Might be worth making a common template like wikipedia:Template:Userbox-level, so that changing it will update all the daughter userboxes. (I've done that with this sandbox.) Along with a guide for adding new languages to the list. And a template like wikipedia:Template:Babel; could call it "Template:Lammas".

I've kept all links to articles on languages to Wikipedia, but you could make those applicable links to TG's pages on Modern English, Old English, Finnish, Gothic, Hebrew, Latin, Runes, Welsh, Quenya, Sindarin, Tengwar, Cirth, and Sarati.

Note I've removed the usercategory parameter from each box in case that would have put this Userpage into hundreds of new categories or something. Will have to put those back in before making them available.

I've also added some <br> with an NBSP to add lines to some boxes to make them even when comparing TG boxes to the Wikipedia style, so remove those if making them public.

Current TG design

Note xx-2's info-c color is #D0F8EF instead of #D0F8FF, and xx-N's is #F8CAC8 instead of #F9CBC9 (Wikipedia's xx-5b).

(The second column is testing a "Template:Userbox-level" thing using this page as the template.)

Main WP design

Compared to TG's design, red colors are moved from xx-N to xx-5 (and #F8CAC8 becomes #F9CBC9), xx-N takes xx-4's green colors, and xx-4 gets yellow colors.

Third column (just for xx-N) tests to make sure default is same as level = N.

The third column in the last row has no level parameter, instead using xx-N, to show you can get the default colors without defining level. But it can also look like this, which is closer to the WP style:

I'll also show xx-0.5.

Oddly xx-4 is the only one with a border color different than its ID color. The right column here shows if the border color was the same.

(The alternate xx-5 color also has a darker border color. And in both the alternate xx-5 and the main xx-4, the border color matches the border and ID colors of the written language templates for the respective levels, Xxxx-5 and Xxxx-4.

Alternate WP design

The most common change Wikipedia makes is xx-3 from 3 (blues) to 3b (greens) and xx-5 from 5b (lighter reds) to 5 (darker reds).

Other alternates are in xx-0 (0b, reds, lighter than 5b) and xx-4 (4a, darker yellows than 4).

Testing:

Written-language userbox design, same as for language ability userboxes

wikipedia:Wikipedia:Userboxes/Language/Writing only applies this to ASCII and EBCDIC.

Usual design for written-language userboxes

(Could Xxxx-4's color (where the ID box has the same color as the border instead of a lighter yellow) just have been an oversight on the base template that spread to them all?)

The WP text colors for some reason have a different default:

Written-language userbox design with a brighter red

Only used in the IPA userboxes at wikipedia:Wikipedia/Userboxes/Language/Written.

Side-by-side comparisons

First column is TG's, second is the most common on Wikipedia, third is alternate colors of Wikipedia's although I don't think any languages used all four alternate colors.

Written languages.

English ability (TG and WP styles)

Italian ability (WP style)

Chooses between genders: {{GENDER:{{ROOTPAGENAME}}|Questo utente|Questa utente|Quest'utente}}

Spanish ability (TG and WP styles)

French ability (TG and WP styles)

European Portuguese ability (WP style)

Has "usuário/utilizador", but without a programming switch, it's just always like that.

Is there a reason "Português" is capitalized only in pt-5?

Brazilian Portuguese ability (WP style)

Perhaps pt-# templates could have two versions each that flip based on a switch statement with a "European or Brazilian" parameter.

Russian ability (WP style)

Polish ability (WP style)

German ability (TG and WP styles)

Note the Wikipedia version uses two separate de-N userboxes (de-N and de-N-f), differing by gender (Dieser Benutzer and Diese Benutzerin).

Japanese ability (WP style)

Oddly jp-N has a translation into English.

Dutch ability (TG and WP styles)

Chinese ability (WP style)

{{#switch:{{{char|}}} | simp = {{{4|该用户能以'''[[:Category:User zh-1|基本]]'''的'''[[:Category:User zh|中文]]'''进行交流。}}} | trad = {{{4|该用户能以'''[[:Category:User zh-1|基本]]'''的'''[[:Category:User zh|中文]]'''进行交流。}}} | {{{4|{{lang|zh-Hant|該用戶能以'''[[:Category:User zh-1|基本]]'''的'''[[:Category:User zh|中文]]'''進行交流。}}<br/>{{lang|zh-Hans|该用户能以'''[[:Category:User zh-1|基本]]'''的'''[[:Category:User zh|中文]]'''进行交流。}}}}}}}

Two lines, seems like simplified and traditional. Traditional has some stuff like a period vertically centered that doesn't come through when I copy-paste it.

I'm guessing the Lord of the Rings Huijiwiki uses traditional?

Finnish ability (WP style)

Swedish ability (TG and WP styles)

Norwegian (Bokmal) ability (WP style)

In terms of Babel, Wikipedia distinguishes between general Norwegian (no-#), Bokmal (nb-#), and Nynorsk (nn-#), while Bokmal Wikipedia is .no instead of .nb. I'm using the no-# userboxes from Wikipedia even if Bokmal is here in the list.

Has "brukeren/brukaren", but no programming switch. Except in no-N, where it does.

Czech ability (TG and WP styles)

Hungarian ability (WP style)

Korean ability (WP style)

Danish ability (WP style)

An example of arbitrary bolds between different userboxes: Here "niveau" on da-5 is not bold, while cognate words in related languages are bolded.

Bulgarian ability (WP style)

Estonian ability (WP style)

Hebrew ability (WP style)

This is difficult to edit with the right-to-left direction, and the font seems different than it did on Wikipedia anyway.

Repeating what was on an older version of the sandbox:

Serbian ability (WP style)

Cyrillic and Latin versions are not programming switches. sr-1 had an <hr> but the others just had <br>.

Welsh ability (WP style)

Persian ability (WP style)

Similar issues as Hebrew.

Hindi ability (WP style)

Arabic ability (WP style)

Gendered.

Similar issues as Hebrew.

Greek ability (WP style)

Ukrainian ability (WP style)

Catalan ability (WP style)

Wikipedia has ca-# for Catalan, cat-# is a cat joke.

TimothyChenAllen's:

Afrikaans ability (WP style)

Xhosa ability (WP style)

Zulu ability (WP style)

Irish ability (WP style)

Scottish Gaelic ability (WP style)

Scots ability (WP style)

Can't tell if this one is meant to be humorous. "Stang o the trump"? Also, "near-native" should be sco-4, here it's sco-5.

Luxembourgish ability (WP style)

Maori ability (WP style)

Latin ability (WP style)

Old English ability (WP style)

Are ang-3 and ang-4 the same meaning for some reason?

Old Norse ability (WP style)

Gothic ability (WP style)

Ancient Hebrew ability (WP style)

Ancient Greek ability (WP style)

Sanskrit ability (WP style)

Quenya ability (WP style)

Note Röandil said that realistically no one would ever have more than a qya-2 or qya-3 rating.

The below userbox texts are from Wikipedia, but appear to have been edited the same day that Röandil gave some corrections to earlier userbox texts (in the comments of this Reddit post). I wonder what texts could be come up with that aren't dependent on previous texts, for example translating "a native speaker of Quenya" instead of "is a Noldo". Could also translate the "contributes with" versions. And "quete nostea" could go to qya-4 while a translation of "professional" goes to qya-5. Actually, "quete nostea" could go to qya-N, "professional" for qya-5, and just adding "almost" or "near" to "quete nostea" can create qya-4. Or "ista Quenya" can be qya-4, if unable to come up with "almost" or "near".

Should these distinguish between Quenya and Neo-Quenya? Neo-Quenya doesn't have its own ISO 639 code anyway.

Not sure what it means when Röandil includes things in parentheses. Gender difference, or optional?

Sindarin ability (WP style)

See notes on Quenya above; maximum of sjn-2 or sjn-3 probably likely for Sindarin too.

No clue if these have been properly vetted.

Also inconsistent on whether "lam" and stuff is conjoined with "Edhellen" as a hyperlink.

Written language userboxes

Based on Wikipedia's wikipedia:Template:User iso15924.

Seems wrong, Xxxx-N should be true native, not "native-like", which would be either Xxxx-4 or Xxxx-5. But they're all that way, so I'll leave it like that for now.

Latin script ability

Cyrillic ability

Chinese characters ability

Hebrew script ability

Arabic script ability

Another version (just for being able to read the Arabic script generally, wikipedia:Template:User Arabic Script) uses ض.

Devanagari script ability

Runic script ability

Might want some way of distinguishing between futhorc, Elder Futhark, and Younger Futhark. Futhorc (Anglo-Saxon runes) seems the most relevant to Tolkien stuff.

wikipedia:Template:ISO_15924/script-example-character uses the thorn rune as its example, I'm going with fehu since it's first, the equivalent to "A".

Gothic script ability

Greek script ability

Tengwar script ability

Note Wikipedia uses "tng-", which I think is just an oversight.

For now I'm going with tinco, because it's the first numerically I think, but there's an argument it should be a more "distinctive" tengwa.

Wikipedia's wikipedia:Template:ISO_15924/script-example-character uses anga, I guess because it corresponds to "A", but I'm not sure Elves would go with that "in-universe".

The tengwa gif is a lot smaller than the corresponding Cirth svg.

Maroon Teng-5 doesn't go well with the black tengwa gif.

Cirth script ability

Wikipedia's wikipedia:Template:ISO_15924/script-example-character uses Certh-19, I'm going with Certh-1 for now.

Maroon Cirt-5 doesn't go well with the black Cirth svg.

Sarati script ability

Skimming Wikipedia's "Sarati" article makes me think Tengwar is "the Tengwar" while Sarati is just "Sarati".

Wikipedia's wikipedia:Template:ISO_15924/script-example-character uses sarat vertical-K, I was going to use the one that corresponds to tinco, even though it likewise isn't very discernable as a character.

Should probably migrate Sarati files from Wikimedia Commons over to TG. (And Tengwar and Cirth if they're higher-quality or more updated there.)

IPA script ability

archaic English letters template

Not sure what color to use for this when it's just one. Sticking with maroon for now.

Further ideas and notes

A template like Template:UsersSpeak to put at the top of a Category page for speakers of a given language.

It appears that external links in userboxes will start out blue, but once you've visited them they become yellow/gold, presumably the same yellow/gold that internal links become when you've visited them, hardly distinguishable from the unvisited color.

Perhaps: gender=m|male/f|female/x|other; characters=trad|traditional/simp|simplified; script=cyrl|cyrillic/latn|latin; POSSIBLY variety=eu|euroean/br|brazilian; the defaults give both, although I'm not sure what default would give in the case of Portuguese; probably European; might also replace "european" with "peninsular"

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